Vampires and Anti-Semetic Legends?
EDSHUGEO
the blood libel, anti-semetic claims that jews drank the blood of christian
babies as well as constant references to jews as "bloodsuckers" and such that
continue to this day.
Did one contribute to the other? Any books or web pages on
the subject? How about opinions?
Culture belongs to the people
--Edshugeo, the GodMoor--
http://members.aol.com/edshugeo (Updated March 26th,1999)
http://members.xoom.com/GodMoor (Updated Feb. 1st, 1999)
Humble Beginnings
I've never heard of actual "blood drinking" as a Jewish
characteristic, although every non-Christian religion or sect has, at
one time or another, been accused of murdering innocents, burning them
at stakes, etc., which technically could include babies.
If one were to take a more metaphysical sense, however the "blood
drinking" of Jews could be likened to their possessing large amounts
of money. Money could be seen as the "life blood" of a community, as
wealth of the landed gentry determined their keeping status, and the
bourgeois class that was growing depended upon it. If so, that would
be just a reflection of the bigotry that already existed: Jews "had"
money b/c the only occupation allowed to them, for the most part, was
banking - a profession "tainted" with the handling of currency.
Vampires, otoh, tended to be the "diseased" gentry, the "mad"
commoners, etc. Normal maladictions that are treatable today, and
would have been seen to be caused by "spirits" or "nocturnal visitors"
then.
The only thing I could see, religious-wise, connecting vampires to
Jews would be the invocation of the cross, holy water, whatever, which
would serve to reinforce Catholic Christianity over the
"demon-possessed" and non-Christians.
--
Humble Beginnings
ICQ: #4042534
Kevin Rodriques
>
> I've long suspected a link between euro vampire legends and
> the blood libel, anti-semetic claims that jews drank the blood of christian
> babies as well as constant references to jews as "bloodsuckers" and such that
> continue to this day.
> Did one contribute to the other? Any books or web pages on
> the subject? How about opinions?
Blood drinking was part of the 'witch' folklore from Roman
Times. See Petronius' 'Satyricon' for an example.
Also Jews were thought to use evil spells against Cristians.
In Spain, half of the Jewish women who were arrested by the
Inquisition were charged with witchcraft accusations. This was
so partly because Jews frequently studied Medicine with the
Moors.
--Kevin Rodriques
Richard Eney
>EDSHUGEO wrote:
>>
>> I've long suspected a link between euro vampire legends and
>> the blood libel, anti-semetic claims that jews drank the blood of christian
>> babies as well as constant references to jews as "bloodsuckers" and such that
>> continue to this day.
>> Did one contribute to the other? Any books or web pages on
>> the subject? How about opinions?
>
>Blood drinking was part of the 'witch' folklore from Roman
>Times. See Petronius' 'Satyricon' for an example.
>
consume) blood under the Mosaic laws governing Kashruth (the preparation
of food in a kosher manner).
Personally I've always liked the style of the modern Jew who was asked
about this and replied: "How else are we going to get the blood to make
matzo for Passover?"
-- Dick Eney
Kevin Rodriques
>
> >Blood drinking was part of the 'witch' folklore from Roman
> >Times. See Petronius' 'Satyricon' for an example.
> >
> Right. The fact is that the Jews are _forbidden_ to drink (or otherwise
> consume) blood under the Mosaic laws governing Kashruth (the preparation
> of food in a kosher manner).
>
Leviticus, ch. 17, v. 14 :)
--Kevin
Loki
> I've long suspected a link between euro vampire legends and
>the blood libel, anti-semetic claims that jews drank the blood of christian
>babies as well as constant references to jews as "bloodsuckers" and such that
>continue to this day.
> Did one contribute to the other? Any books or web pages on
>the subject? How about opinions?
I don't think they really had one to do with the other. Vampirism was
a pre-exising pagan legend that the Christian cultures adopted, rather
than invented. They may have been, at times, intertwined, but Jews
were more seen as "witches" and "servants of the devil," but not
vampires, per se, which were beings who rose from the dead and were
condemned to drink human blood to survive. Jews were viewed as using
the blood of Christian children to make a mockery of the crucifixion
and the blood of Christ, which was a different concept.
> Culture belongs to the people
> --Edshugeo, the GodMoor--
> http://members.aol.com/edshugeo (Updated March 26th,1999)
> http://members.xoom.com/GodMoor (Updated Feb. 1st, 1999)
--
Et in Arcadia Ego...
Loki
-[E-Mail]- juv...@citrus.infi.net
-[WWW]- http://members.xoom.com/balsebub
-[ICQ]- #13134728
"Sign upon the bloody line, a drop of yours, a drop of
mine." - Alice Cooper, "Nothing's Free"
Mush97
I think that "blood sucking" referred to the their (Jews) choicest
habit of charging abnormal usury.
Merchant of Venice depicts 'Shylock" as a classical Jew.
Humble Beginnings <mars...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:37cb9b8e...@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
> My $.02.
>
> I've never heard of actual "blood drinking" as a Jewish
> characteristic, although every non-Christian religion or sect has, at
> one time or another, been accused of murdering innocents, burning them
> at stakes, etc., which technically could include babies.
> > --Edshugeo, the GodMoor--
> > http://members.aol.com/edshugeo (Updated March 26th,1999)
> > http://members.xoom.com/GodMoor (Updated Feb. 1st, 1999)
>
> --
>
> Humble Beginnings
> ICQ: #4042534
>
Kevin Rodriques
>
>
> I don't think they really had one to do with the other. Vampirism was
> a pre-exising pagan legend that the Christian cultures adopted, rather
> than invented. They may have been, at times, intertwined, but Jews
> were more seen as "witches" and "servants of the devil," but not
> vampires, per se, which were beings who rose from the dead and were
> condemned to drink human blood to survive. Jews were viewed as using
> the blood of Christian children to make a mockery of the crucifixion
> and the blood of Christ, which was a different concept.
>
The 'Holy Child of La Guardia' and 'Saint Dominguito de Val' legends
are both *fictional* and the story of a child crucified by Jews, in
the best Isabella and Ferdinand antisemithic style. Spanish urban
legends from the XVIth Century.
--Kevin
Humble Beginnings
Thank you.
On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:52:09 +0800, "Mush97" <mus...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Phil Goetz
Humble Beginnings <mars...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>My $.02.
>
>I've never heard of actual "blood drinking" as a Jewish
>characteristic, although every non-Christian religion or sect has, at
>one time or another, been accused of murdering innocents, burning them
>at stakes, etc., which technically could include babies.
I've never read an original text with that accusation,
but I've read numerous sources claiming that the accusation
that Jews drank blood had been made.
I believe that Christians were, in Roman times, accused of
drinking the blood of their God, because that's pretty much
what they said they were doing, although the symbology apparently
eluded their accusers.
Phil
Humble Beginnings
The Spanish Inquisition.
The struggle with the Gnostics.
The missionary work in SE Asia & Brazil.
Just about anywhere you see Christianity imposing itself over local or
regional religions there is a "saving them from themselves" or
"spreading the Gospel" aspect. This is explained as having to remove
the taints of human sacrifice, heathen worship, etc. I've not heard
of any "blood drinking" per se, but accusations by the Catholic Church
are well known.
The syncretism of early religions pretty much ended before the Church
consolidated itself in the Nicene Creed. Granted there were problems
after the Creed, and some innovations have come about since, but
nothing of any major import has been added. The only avenue left to
"make the world ready" for the Second Coming was persecution and
removal of all other religions, converting their followers at
swordpoint if necessary. And anything done in this aim was justified.
--
Humble Beginnings
ICQ: #4042534
Julian Woodrobin
Phil Goetz wrote:
>
> I believe that Christians were, in Roman times, accused of
> drinking the blood of their God, because that's pretty much
> what they said they were doing, although the symbology apparently
> eluded their accusers.
Phil,
The "symbolism" of ingesting the flesh and blood of their God would be
"lost" on modern-day Catholics, too, then. They hold a doctrinal belief in
literal transubstantiation, that the wine and wafer literally become blood
and flesh miraculously. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, the early precursors
of the Catholics (the stream of Christianity that wiped out the "heretics"
and went on to establish the theocratic organization that would become the
Catholic church) also believed and taught that the sacraments were
*actually* blood and flesh, rather than symbolically. In that case, the
Romans would not have been dunces, incapable of perceiving the subtle
symbolisms of Christianity (highly unlikely, as Christianity was less
complex than most of the mystery cults and certainly no more complex than
the prevailing state-oriented polytheism popular with the majority of
Romans). They would simply have been taking the Christians at their word.
Blessed Be,
Julian Woodrobin
Kice Brown
>
> >
> > I believe that Christians were, in Roman times, accused of
> > drinking the blood of their God, because that's pretty much
> > what they said they were doing, although the symbology apparently
> > eluded their accusers.
>
>
the Romans saw them_, ISBN 0-300-03066-5 and 0-300-03627-2
(pbk). Published in 1984 so a library might be best place to
get it -- or perhaps used from BN.COM, etc.
--
Kice, writing from Lone Tree
"There are things we do not understand.
Yet they exist nonetheless." -- Lt. Worf
PSmith9626
Thanks for the reference.
You always have the most fascinating stuff.
Is Lone Tree a place or a research Institute in Paganism that you have
created?
best
penny
>I recommend reading Robert Wilken's book _The Christians as
>the Romans saw them_, ISBN 0-300-03066-5 and 0-300-03627-2
>(pbk). Published in 1984 so a library might be best place to
>get it -- or perhaps used from BN.COM, etc.
>
>Kice, writing from Lone Tree