THE WIND in another Top Ten for 2003
peter_ballanti...@yahoo.com
("whatever that is", as they say in their logo) journal but really
covers all "roots" music (blues, folk, country, soul, etc.- you know,
ALL the good stuff they don't play on the radio) has listed Warren
Zevon's The Wind as #9 in their critics poll titled,
THE 40 BEST ALT. COUNTRY (YEAH, WHATEVER) ALBUMS OF 2003
in the Jan-Feb 2004 issue.
And if you're still a bit shocked despite the "whatever" disclaimers,
note that number 10 is the White Stripes' Elephant. (The Wind is also
number #4 for the selling period of Sept.-Oct. among their "reporting"
indie record shops.)
Howard Roseman
> note that number 10 is the White Stripes' Elephant.
What are you trying to say - I have no idea who the White Stripes are
(sorry).
peter_ballanti...@yahoo.com
No need to apologize to me. I do note that your are never afraid to
profess ignorance of a certain artist or musical genre (your
unfamilarity with George Jones and/or country music comes to mind),
which in a way is refreshing in these "know it all" times. - I guess I'm
too timid to do the same- I'd just do an Allmusic.com search.
I'm not one to "label" musicians, but I suppose one could say The White
Stripes are a modern, "power duo" [electric guitar and drums] playing
"garage rock*", heavily based in the blues and blues/rock of the 60's.
(* as noted by Jack White in the very same issue of ND).
As to what I'm saying- well, if trying to fit the label of "alt country"
on Warren seems a too off, it's nothing compared to using it for the
White Stripes (altho' they have played with Loretta Lynn and covered
Dolly Parton...). Hey, I love 'em but you won't soon see them listed on
Amazon under:
"If you like Steve Earle [or any other notable alt. country act],
you'll like The White Stripes."
On second thought, tho', if your favorite WZ project is Hindu Love Gods,
the White Stripes aren't all that far off...
peter_ballanti...@yahoo.com
I do note that your are never afraid to
> profess ignorance of a certain artist or musical genre (your
> unfamilarity with George Jones and/or country music comes to mind),
> which in a way is refreshing in these "know it all" times. - I guess I'm
> too timid to do the same- I'd just do an Allmusic.com search.
>
Wow, this comes off sounding real nasty upon reading it over- meant it
to sound tongue-in-cheek wiseass and should have stuck in a "<g>"
(sorry, don't do the smiley face thing- well, at least, I don't know HOW
to do it...<g>)
BUT, hey, geez, Howard, 100 channels of XM, time to find the
"blues/rock, neo-garage band power duo rock" channel once in awhile (if
only to make you appreciate The Loft that much more...)
Howard Roseman
here I just ask people what they mean in order to get some discussion
flowing. I'm a professional know-it-all in certain esoteric branches of I.T.
and love feeling ignorant about other stuff (which is inevitable, there's
just too much damn stuff out there!). As to criticism, reading through
student evaluations (both positive and negative) of your performance in a
course pretty much hardens you to it. And for XM, I only receive it in the
car, which means I hardly ever get to listen to more than 5 or 10 stations,
let alone the full 100. This summer, I'm going to spend some time in the
mall parking lot with some of the other genres.
But I have to admit I'm still not sure what you meant about being "shocked"
in your original post. Are we to be shocked that The Wind is ranked that
high? Certainly the very first cut, Dirty Life and Times, has an alt-country
feel.
<peter_ballanti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i_3Hb.420926$655.10...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
peter_ballanti...@yahoo.com
>
> But I have to admit I'm still not sure what you meant about being "shocked"
> in your original post
Well, I said, "> And if you're still a bit shocked despite the
"whatever" disclaimers,"
so maybe even adding "a bit" to the word shocked didn't reduce the
meaning enough. "Surprised" "amused" "confused". I suppose the point
is that many people are very protective of a "genre" of music (there
used to be a LOT of controversy over what was "country music" back in
the 70's, there's always a flap about being certain artists being listed
in "FOLK" or "HEAVY METAL" catagories for the Grammys, etc), so many
people might find it odd/unusual to find articles on Al Green in the mag
or Van Morrison, Richard Thompson and Robert Randolph in their Top 40
Sales Chart or find WZ in a "best of" listing for an "Alt. Country"
magazine. I find it refreshing.
. Are we to be shocked that The Wind is ranked that > high?
I'm NOT shocked and I don't *want* you to be shocked or even "a bit
shocked", BUT <<<<show of hands here>>>> how many people here, when
asked what style of music WZ plays, say "alt. country"?
Certainly the very first cut, Dirty Life and Times, has an alt-country
> feel.
I don't think DLT is why The Wind is there but OK. (Sure doesn't
explain The White Stripes, tho'...<g>)
My comments had more to do with the genre-busting attitude of the
magazine than their recognition of The Wind. I like genre-busters- it's
what makes a lot of "American music" great- and when a magazine that
starts off writing about a "sub-genre" of music that is, to some,
controversial to begin with and evolves into covering a much broader
range of music, I think that's worthwhile to comment on and let people
who might otherwise pass up a magazine labeled "alt country" know.
RatsLinger1
country act from Chicago, Robbie Fulks has it about right in his song about his
own experience trying to get a record deal in Nashville "F*** this Town"....
.adult content warning:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Well, I came down to Nashville in 1993
'Cause my friend Jim said Nashville had money growin' right on the trees
So I thought I'd go pick some, and I don't mean musically.
Now it's 4 years later, and I'm wonderin' where I went wrong
Shook a lotta hands, ate a lotta lunch, wrote a lotta dumbass songs
But I couldn't get a break in Nashville, if I tried my whole life long
So, fuck this town...fuck this town
Fuck it end-to-end, fuck it up and down
Can't get noticed -- can't get found -- can't get a cut, so
Fuck this town.
Hey, this ain't country-western!
It's just soft-rock feminist crap!
And I thought they'd struck bottom back back in the days of Ronnie Milsap
Now they can't stop the flood of assholes: there ain't a big enough ASCAP.
Sure, I like old Tim Carroll, and BR5-49
But Nashville don't need that noise, no,
Nashville'll do just fine
As long as there's a moron market
And a faggot in a hat to sign.
Fuck this town! Fuck this town!
Fuck...this...town.
Howard Roseman
country music fan, I've always enjoyed country-rock (Blue Rodeo up here in
Canada is one supposed example), so why the hell not alt.country? I think
the purest Zevon example of that is Heartache Spoken here, which along with
Dirty Life and Times featured Dwight Yoakam. But I know, they wouldn't have
put The WInd on the list for just one song, which implies that alt.country
is quite a broad category. If I had to classify it, I'd say The Wind is more
folk-rock.
<peter_ballanti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hoeHb.425162$655.10...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Lucy Pfeffa
So I thought I'd go pick some, and I don't mean musically.
Now it's 4 years later, and I'm wonderin' where I went wrong
Shook a lotta hands, ate a lotta lunch, wrote a lotta dumbass songs
But I couldn't get a break in Nashville, if I tried my whole life long <<
Well, don't you see his problem right there? He goes to Music City lookin' to
pick money off trees, not to pick music. Then he writes a lotta dumbass
songs... Perhaps if he had tried writing a *good* song,and did it for the love
of music and poetry instead of money, he'd have gotten somewhere. Perhaps not.
Look where it got WZ.
-- Lucy
Dan Hanson
"Rainy Day Music" from last year is a fantastic album.
"Howard Roseman" <hros...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Q3hHb.850485$9l5.579269@pd7tw2no...
Lumpenguy
Doug
"Dan Hanson" <danh...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:9KnHb.844325$pl3.710926@pd7tw3no...
Eric Furniss
Since Seger hasn't had a relevant release in 20 years (that god awful song
from Beverly Hills Cop doesn't count) I'd put him in the dinosaur rock
category with the likes of .38 Special, the Who and Foreigner. Maybe that's
a little harsh. I'll never forgive Seger for first writing and then selling
to advertising "Like a Rock."
Having picked on Bob Seger, I will confess I think Doug makes an excellent
point...what exactly then is alt country? Anything with a twang perhaps? If
so does that allow John Mellencamp, the Allman Brothers and Neil Young
entry? What about Springsteen or Dylan? Given the loose requirements to be
considered alt. country, you could have a southern based rapper like Bubba
Sparxx that would be able to wear that label. If Al Green gets consideration
as an alt. country performer, can P.Diddy be far behind?
Eric
"Lumpenguy" <lump...@ispwest.com> wrote in message
news:bslt2...@enews3.newsguy.com...
peter_ballanti...@yahoo.com
I will confess I think Doug makes an excellent
> point...what exactly then is alt country? Anything with a twang perhaps? If
> so does that allow John Mellencamp, the Allman Brothers and Neil Young
> entry? What about Springsteen or Dylan?
I think the problem of defining ANY musical genre IS always troublesome.
(Just go to a discussion on a ng over "Is this song rockabilly?" to
see arguments get hot quick.) To some extent, a genre's "edges" are
defined by the ear of the listener. Too restrictive and you've left out
a lot of great music that might have more than one influence (and is
often dismissed as being "water down")- too loose and you're left with
no meaning at all ("rock" music?).
And then there's the tendency to label things retroactively, and one
looses some historic aspects of musical evolution. (On the other hand,
sometimes it takes a few years to determine exactly what happened.)
Should the Soul artists of the 60's now be called "R&B", a term
originated the late 40's and now again used for African American "urban"
music?
"Rhythm and Blues" "Folk" "Rock and Roll" "Country Rock" "Folk Rock",
etc., have all had sliding and changing definitions over the years.
. If Al Green gets consideration
> as an alt. country performer
Just because Al Green is written about in an Alt Country magazine, I
don't think even the magazine's staff considers him "alt country". (I'm
sure Frank Sinatra was written about in Rolling Stone but that didn't
make him a "rock musician".) No Depression magazine in particular often
writes about musicians who in no way could be considered "alt country"
BUT may influence the music or may appeal to people who also listen to
"alt country". Their use of the expression "Whatever that is", implies
that they feel free to write about any music that might interest them.
In fact, the best articles on classic country artists like Jimmy Martin,
Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash are often found in No Depression (but that
says more about the sad state of "country" music today...)
John Mellencamp, the Allman Brothers, Neil Young, Springsteen and Dylan
all may have influenced some alt. country artists at times but I don't
think one could fairly call them "alt country" artists, just as they've
all done music that sounds like classic country but no one's ever made
the claim they're country stars. The "no depression" newsgroup (since
the magazine took the name from what some folks were calling the music
at the time) FAQ says:
2. What kind of music is "no depression"?
Punk meets honky-tonk, old weepers meet The Stones,
countripolitan meets scruff-rock. Also called Americana, Alt-Country,
insurgent country.
Lucy Pfeffa
etc., have all had sliding and changing definitions over the years. <<
Back in the early & mid-seventies, when they were singing Jackson Browne songs,
the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band referred to themselves as "Granola Rock."
-- Lucy, posting a bit of non-sequitur nonsense
JessK...@notyahoo.com
>>>"Rhythm and Blues" "Folk" "Rock and Roll" "Country Rock" "Folk Rock",
>
> etc., have all had sliding and changing definitions over the years. <<
>
> Back in the early & mid-seventies, when they were singing Jackson Browne songs,
> the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band referred to themselves as "Granola Rock."
When I lived in the hill country of Central New York State, we
transplanted suburbanites picked up the rather ugly expression for the
poor white trailer-living natives of "clusterfucks" (which actually
comes from spy novels, and describes an error rather than a person, but
whatever...). There also existed a lot of back-to-the-earth, left-over
hippie types (we were not far from the ultra-hip Ithaca area), which I
began to refer to as "granola clusterfucks"...
Lucy Pfeffa
comes from spy novels, and describes an error rather than a person, but
whatever...). <<
I used to work for a large law firm - at one point they had 112 lawyers. After
28 years of partnership, the firm dissolved. The partner in charge of the
dissolution committee hired me to do the wrap up secretarial work. He referred
to the entire fiasco as a clusterfuck.
-- Lucy, wandering far from the topic
Lumpenguy
that "The Wind" landed in somebody's alt.country NG. Thus, my bad excuse
for a pun, "Against the Wind" being a candidate for an alt.country taxonomic
categorization.
Or not.
Turned out to be an interesting conversation, nonetheless.
Doug
"Lucy Pfeffa" <lpf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031228163248...@mb-m12.aol.com...
JessK...@notyahoo.com
> Lighten up, guys & gulls;
Oh, I don't think the conversation ever got "heavy", in fact it sorta
spun outta control
my comment was a pun on the original observation
> that "The Wind" landed in somebody's alt.country NG. Thus, my bad excuse
> for a pun, "Against the Wind" being a candidate for an alt.country taxonomic
> categorization.
Oh...yeah...DUH...good one. But I suppose it'll take more than Segar to
compete against WZ's cd, for that is a Mighty Wind, and there are so
many different emotions and answers Blowing in the Wind, leaving us all
feeling as if we were just a Leaf in the Wind.
(Someone else take "Dust in the Wind"- I can take that 70's-80's arena
rock sh*t and am embarassed to say I even know the song...)
Lisa Corkery
influence by so-called alternative rock (which leads us down another foggy
road of label and classification) but also has a distinct country influence.
Less twang, none of that SHIT contemporary country CRAP. Jayhawks I think
are a good example of alt-country (listening to them now actually), also
Kathleen Edwards.... damn of course I can't think of anything else right now
although I know there are a million of them. Oh yeah Calexico, they are so
great!
I know so many people take serious exception to using genre labels. I for
one have never understood why its such a bone of contention. People take it
too seriously, like it lumps an artist into one category they can never get
out of. To me, its just a way of describing a sound, that's all, nothing
more or less. Simply a matter of convenience.
And I think I would put The Wind into the "Rock" category myself.
Lisa
p.s. for my volunteer radio show, for my last one of the year I played
tracks by all the great musicians who passed this year. For Warren I played
"My Dirty Life and Times" and "Splendid Isolation"- LTF version. Hope you
guys approve!
will think of several million alt-country artists later... and oh yeah don't
forget about the "cow-punk" category either!!! Nothing like a bunch of scary
guys in cowboy suits playing twang really loud and fast a-la punk. Great
stuff!
"Eric Furniss" <e.furn...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DtzHb.3976$E17....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Eric Furniss
> one have never understood why its such a bone of contention. People take
it
> too seriously, like it lumps an artist into one category they can never
get
> out of. To me, its just a way of describing a sound, that's all, nothing
> more or less. Simply a matter of convenience.
>
I'd be one who hates the genre labels. I think it causes people to tune out
things they otherwise would have enjoyed. Alternative music used to be
college music or stuff you would never or rarely hear on the radio. Now a
band can sell a million records and still be labeled as "alternative." The
Foo Fighters are as alternative as black leather, tattoos and piercings are
signs of rebellion. The genre labels are geared more to marketing and the
selling of product then they are to classification of music and artists. The
labels and the radio conglomerates like Clear Channel brand you with that
label and it's nearly impossible to escape. The way you're labeled
determines how much money the label will spend to promote you. It determines
how many stations will play your music.
I don't need country, active country, alt country, jazz, urban jazz, fresh
jazz, cool jazz, new age, rock, classic rock, alt rock, folk rock, hard
rock, lite rock, adult contemporary, hot a/c, heavy metal, rap metal, soul,
classic soul, urban, contemporary urban or as it's known to radio, churban,
dance or hip hop. People are smart enough to figure out what it is they are
listening to. Just give me songs and artists that move me then turn the
speakers up full blast and play it all night long.
Eric...who believes the Dewey decimal system should stay in the library
system and far away from pop music
"Lisa Corkery" <lisac...@rogersismean.com> wrote in message
news:CtkIb.170045$2We1....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Vicki
> influence by so-called alternative rock (which leads us down another foggy
> road of label and classification) but also has a distinct country influence.
> Less twang, none of that SHIT contemporary country CRAP. Jayhawks I think
> are a good example of alt-country (listening to them now actually), also
> Kathleen Edwards.... damn of course I can't think of anything else right now
> although I know there are a million of them. Oh yeah Calexico, they are so
> great!
>
> I know so many people take serious exception to using genre labels. I for
> one have never understood why its such a bone of contention. People take it
> too seriously, like it lumps an artist into one category they can never get
> out of. To me, its just a way of describing a sound, that's all, nothing
> more or less. Simply a matter of convenience.
>
> And I think I would put The Wind into the "Rock" category myself.
>
> Lisa
>
> p.s. for my volunteer radio show, for my last one of the year I played
> tracks by all the great musicians who passed this year. For Warren I played
> "My Dirty Life and Times" and "Splendid Isolation"- LTF version. Hope you
> guys approve!
>
> will think of several million alt-country artists later... and oh yeah don't
> forget about the "cow-punk" category either!!! Nothing like a bunch of scary
> guys in cowboy suits playing twang really loud and fast a-la punk. Great
> stuff!
Shelby Lynn is certainly one to be considered as alt.country. I did't
care for her too much at first, then after I heard her sing the
National Anthem at some baseball playoff game I gained new respect for
the gal. She can sing!
Love the Jayhawks. As was mentioned, another alt.country group. Do
these folks get played on commercial "alt.country" FM radio stations?
I'm so out of touch w/ what's on the airwaves. All I listen to is
WFUV.org. Here's a few artists who I suppose could be considered
alt.country that were included in WFUV's top favs of 2003 (although I
consider WFUV is alt.progressive/folk): Jayhawks; Lucinda Williams;
Shelby Lynn; The Mavericks (have you ever heard this guy [Raul Malo]
sing? Oh my God); Rosanne Cash; Emmylou; Lyle Lovett; and of course,
Zevon.
Re Seger, when "Against the Wind" first came out it was played on rock
stations. He's still considered "rock" in the music bins at record
stores.
It's a strange music world, especially weird that the industry finds
it necessary to put artists in neat little niches. What the f--- is
their criteria? WZ will always occupy the "rock" niche as far as I'm
concerned. Oh, maybe they think it's "cross over"??? Paleeze.
BTW, got a real chuckle out of the lyrics to the Nashville song.
And yes your WZ selections were perfect, Lisa. Wish I'd heard your
show.
Vicki
Howard Roseman
> it necessary to put artists in neat little niches. What the f--- is
> their criteria? WZ will always occupy the "rock" niche as far as I'm
> concerned. Oh, maybe they think it's "cross over"??? Paleeze.
>
I believe you meant "What the f--- ARE their criteria?" I have no idea. But
one of my criteria is grammar. And I agree that early Zevon is rock and
roll, although later Zevon morphs into folk-rock, perhaps even alt.rock or
alt.folk or alt.thisisgivngmea$%^&headache.
Lucy Pfeffa
alt.folk or alt.thisisgivngmea$%^&headache. <<
Alt.music.zevon. That's all we need.
>> Eric...who believes the Dewey decimal system should stay in the library
system and far away from pop music <<
Well, wouldn't that make it the Dewey Decibel System, then?
-- Lucy, who can't take credit for the joke - that was actually the 'user ID'
for the eBay dude who sold Adrian the 5 discs.
Lumpenguy
Mea Culpa.
And what's not to like about Bob Segar--or is that Seger?
Doug
<JessK...@notyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bLfIb.35878$wz4.8...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Lumpenguy
Alternative _______ , or Alternative _________, then we need an unofficial
category of alternative Alternative. Like Off Off Broadway. It's always
that unflinching L.A. Rock I'll always remember. Ahh, the days of roaming
the Troubador . . .
Doug
"Lucy Pfeffa" <lpf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031230212141...@mb-m17.aol.com...
RatsLinger1
misunderestimated? I may need to brush up on my vocabulary? Does that mean
you overestimated? Or am I posting irregardlessly?
Mark E
just having a little fun with new words this morning
Sandy S
Sandy S
"Lumpenguy" <lump...@ispwest.com> wrote in message
news:bstrn...@enews3.newsguy.com...
Lucy Pfeffa
I think so, too. Doug's funning with us again.
But I do like Howard's "Zevontory" - mine's burgeoning.
-- Lucy, happy the field recordings don't come in jewel cases - I'd never
have enough room
Lumpenguy
Vicki
ARE their criteria?"
Vicki - grammer maven and professional editor who's known to err from
time to time, and mostly forbidden at work to express in print exactly
what the f*** I think!
Howard Roseman
> ARE their criteria?"
>
My newsreader has deleted the original posts. What criteria were we talking
about?
> Vicki - grammer maven and professional editor
And spellar?
Lumpenguy
Doug-arnews:FO2Lb.18700$X%5.461@pd7tw2no...