I chortled - yes, I said "chortled" - when I (deliberately) mis-read
the sentence which goes "Yes does not have a single, solitary leader
who says I am the leader of the band".
"We worship you, oh Steve, who are lord over us all. Praise unto you,
Steve, and to the Lord, our father. Amen." *
> I chortled - yes, I said "chortled" - when I (deliberately) mis-read
> the sentence which goes "Yes does not have a single, solitary leader
> who says I am the leader of the band".
> "We worship you, oh Steve, who are lord over us all. Praise unto you,
> Steve, and to the Lord, our father. Amen." *
> * From the film "Life of Steve".
in other news, "reportedly" Howe assaulted a crew member at some point
during the recent Asia show at the Coach House in San Juan
Capistrano. If I'd gone, I guess I'd be able to confirm or deny the
report...but, of course, I didn't go.
Rob "back in the good old days, he'd just threaten violence" Allen
This is interesting: "If we were to come out with something even as
good as Close to the Edge, that would be a major achievement. The
collaboration on those early records between Jon Anderson and I was
amazing." The collaboration was amazing! I miss that.
And, opps, if you say it is not tit-for-tat, it usually is tit-for-tat
Of course SH is correct that a lot of older bands don't sell a ton of records - he cites The Who and The Stones. But I believe the last Stones studio record went platinum in the U.S. alone. I think the recent Van Halen record sold close to 200K in the first week. I think Rush's Snakes and Arrows went 2x platinum in the U.S, so there are certainly buyers for strong product, well marketed. I don't know where FFH ended up in terms of units sold - does anyone here know?
> Of course SH is correct that a lot of older bands don't sell a ton of records - he cites The Who and The Stones. But I believe the last Stones studio record went platinum in the U.S. alone. I think the recent Van Halen record sold close to 200K in the first week. I think Rush's Snakes and Arrows went 2x platinum in the U.S, so there are certainly buyers for strong product, well marketed. I don't know where FFH ended up in terms of units sold - does anyone here know?
Low, low sales...comparable to the shows. Not much demand for
mid-80's prog pop lite nowadays.
> Of course SH is correct that a lot of older bands don't sell a ton of records - he cites The Who and The Stones. But I believe the last Stones studio record went platinum in the U.S. alone. I think the recent Van Halen record sold close to 200K in the first week. I think Rush's Snakes and Arrows went 2x platinum in the U.S, so there are certainly buyers for strong product, well marketed. I don't know where FFH ended up in terms of units sold - does anyone here know?
Yeah, The Stones' last CD was released 7 years ago it did pretty well considering even in 2005 rock radio was dying and CDs were not selling like they did in the 90s. Certified Platinum in the US. Same as their studio album before it (_Bridges to Babylon_) was in 1997. So I don't think that's a good comparison, but The Who makes sense as their first CD in decades _Endless Wire_ was released in 2006 and didn't really do anything. Neil Peart recalled in a recent interview that when he met Pete Townshend and mentioned they were making a new CD, PT commented along the lines of, "Kind of a waste nowadays, isn't it?"
Aerosmith's newest CD *really* seemed to have bombed with only selling 60,000 in its first week. Quite a difference from their string of multiplatinum albums from the 80s through the early 00s. Rush's _Clockwork Angels_ hasn't been certified yet, but sold 100,000 in its first week and remained on The Billboard 200 for a few months so seems for Rush its still a viable platform for them. And then you have The Eagles, who released a double CD album of new material in 2007 and it was certified 7x platinum! Their tie-in with Walmart certainly helped.
Recent VH did really well those first few weeks, but the band refused to do any real, legitimate press (turning down an interview with Rolling Stone was one cited instance), so it seemed that album (which is very good, imo) kind of fizzled out pretty quickly after the initial strong buzz.
Can't imagine _FFH_ sold anything more than 75k (if that) in the US.
> > Of course SH is correct that a lot of older bands don't sell a ton of records - he cites The Who and The Stones. But I believe the last Stones studio record went platinum in the U.S. alone. I think the recent Van Halen record sold close to 200K in the first week. I think Rush's Snakes and Arrows went 2x platinum in the U.S, so there are certainly buyers for strong product, well marketed. I don't know where FFH ended up in terms of units sold - does anyone here know?
> Yeah, The Stones' last CD was released 7 years ago it did pretty well considering even in 2005 rock radio was dying and CDs were not selling like they did in the 90s. Certified Platinum in the US. Same as their studio album before it (_Bridges to Babylon_) was in 1997. So I don't think that's a good comparison, but The Who makes sense as their first CD in decades _Endless Wire_ was released in 2006 and didn't really do anything. Neil Peart recalled in a recent interview that when he met Pete Townshend and mentioned they were making a new CD, PT commented along the lines of, "Kind of a waste nowadays, isn't it?"
> Aerosmith's newest CD *really* seemed to have bombed with only selling 60,000 in its first week. Quite a difference from their string of multiplatinum albums from the 80s through the early 00s. Rush's _Clockwork Angels_ hasn't been certified yet, but sold 100,000 in its first week and remained on The Billboard 200 for a few months so seems for Rush its still a viable platform for them. And then you have The Eagles, who released a double CD album of new material in 2007 and it was certified 7x platinum! Their tie-in with Walmart certainly helped.
> Recent VH did really well those first few weeks, but the band refused to do any real, legitimate press (turning down an interview with Rolling Stone was one cited instance), so it seemed that album (which is very good, imo) kind of fizzled out pretty quickly after the initial strong buzz.
> Can't imagine _FFH_ sold anything more than 75k (if that) in the US.
Yes hasn't had anywhere near that number so much as bother to press "like" on their official Facebook page so I'll bet significantly fewer managed to seek out and pay money for that album.
The only attention that album got was from the relatively small number of people talking amongst themselves on a few obscure Yes/prog related web sites.
If there are sales reflecting actual success with a release these days we hear the actual, legit numbers.
ie Rush's new one. If we aren't getting actual industry sales numbers independent of Yes-shill speculation it's because the Yes album sold, at best, poorly.
Kevin Caffrey wrote:
> Can't imagine _FFH_ sold anything more than 75k (if that) in the US.
By approx end of November 2011, it had sold 72k copies worldwide (32k in the US). A report at the beginning of Feb 2012 put the worldwide figure just short of 100k and Downes in Mar 2012 said the album had outsold _Magnification_. I don't know how sales have continued through the rest of 2012, but a total less than 75k in the US does seems likely. I understand that the band, while happy with total sales, were disappointed that US sales weren't higher.
-- Henry
On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:47:07 AM UTC-5, use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk wrote:
>> Kevin Caffrey wrote: > Can't imagine _FFH_ sold anything more than 75k (if that) in the US. >By approx end of November 2011, it had sold 72k copies worldwide (32k in the US). A report at the beginning of Feb 2012 put the worldwide figure just short of 100k
What report is this?
> and Downes in Mar 2012 said the album had outsold _Magnification_.
Was he quoting actual figures that can be verified as reliable?
> I don't know how sales have continued through the rest of 2012, but a total less than 75k in the US does seems likely. I understand that the band, while happy with total sales, were disappointed that US sales weren't higher. -- Henry
I am an optimist myself so I do understand the use of figures like this by those promoting the band or those in the band but there were actual hard numbers published in the mainstream media for Rush (as one example) at week one and week two after their release with subsequent updates. With this "report" putting Yes at 50% of Rush sales for a new release, I would have thought this would be worth more industry note somewhere along the way.
On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:47:07 AM UTC-5, use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk wrote:
> Kevin Caffrey wrote:
> > Can't imagine _FFH_ sold anything more than 75k (if that) in the US.
> By approx end of November 2011, it had sold 72k copies worldwide (32k in the US). A report at the beginning of Feb 2012 put the worldwide figure just short of 100k and Downes in Mar 2012 said the album had outsold _Magnification_. I don't know how sales have continued through the rest of 2012, but a total less than 75k in the US does seems likely. I understand that the band, while happy with total sales, were disappointed that US sales weren't higher.
> --
> Henry
Just realized my 75k comment was way off -- for some reason I was thinking they sold 35k in their first week, but now remembering they *debuted* on the Top 200 Billboard chart around #35. So yeah, I guess around 30k in the US sounds about right.
On Dec 4, 3:47 am, "use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk"
<use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk> babbled:
> Kevin Caffrey wrote:
> > Can't imagine _FFH_ sold anything more than 75k (if that) in the US.
> By approx end of November 2011, it had sold 72k copies worldwide (32k in the US). A report at the beginning of Feb 2012 put the worldwide figure just short of 100k
lol..."a report"?
No doubt there's another "report" that puts the worldwide figure just
short of 50k.
I'm sure one is as credible as the next.
> and Downes in Mar 2012 said the album had outsold _Magnification_.
_Magnification_ sold in excess of 200,000k worldwide. Not great,
particularly considering how well Yes concert tickets sold during that
period and on until the band ceased to exist.
HSWasia concert tickets have sold so poorly they are now down to doing
a concert cruise. It's just impossible to imagine that their only
record somehow sold better than the last record done by a legacy band
that was still selling respectable concert numbers.
Of course, one look at Downes and it's easy to know he's not at all
concerned about making any sort of sense.
>I don't know how sales have continued through the rest of 2012, but a total less than 75k in the US does seems likely. I understand that the band, while happy with total sales, were disappointed that US sales weren't higher.
Apparently Howe is so pleased he can't wait to do another...indeed he
probably still wants to do the record that Anderson *blocked* back in
2005.
Rob "the whole thing is still as it was from the start - sadly
laughable" Allen
Kevin Caffrey wrote:
> Just realized my 75k comment was way off -- for some reason I was
> thinking they sold 35k in their first week, but now remembering they
> *debuted* on the Top 200 Billboard chart around #35.
US first week sales were reportedly around 10k. (Definite figures known for UK (5342) and Japan (2328).) The album debuted at #36 in the US, falling to #97 the next week and #182 the third week, before leaving the chart. Also made #56 in Japan, #16 in Germany, #30 in UK, #147 in France, #49 in Italy etc.
-- Henry
On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 8:41:43 AM UTC-5, use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk wrote:
> Kevin Caffrey wrote:
> > Just realized my 75k comment was way off -- for some reason I was
> > thinking they sold 35k in their first week, but now remembering they
> > *debuted* on the Top 200 Billboard chart around #35.
> US first week sales were reportedly around 10k. (Definite figures known for UK (5342) and Japan (2328).) The album debuted at #36 in the US, falling to #97 the next week and #182 the third week, before leaving the chart. Also made #56 in Japan, #16 in Germany, #30 in UK, #147 in France, #49 in Italy etc.
> --
> Henry
That the Billboard site itself says it never charted doesn't concern you?
On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 14:41:27 UTC, Peter wrote:
> use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > US first week sales were reportedly around 10k. (Definite figures known
> > for UK (5342) and Japan (2328).) The album debuted at #36 in the US,
> > falling to #97 the next week and #182 the third week, before leaving the
> > chart. Also made #56 in Japan, #16 in Germany, #30 in UK, #147 in France,
> > #49 in Italy etc.
> That the Billboard site itself says it never charted doesn't concern you?
Look, if Henry's gonna make up sales numbers then surely he'd make up numbers more impressive than 35 on the charts in the US and 100k worldwide. 100k is about the first week of sales for Clockwork Angels in the US alone.
I imagine Frontiers probably turned a decent profit on the album which is why they want another one, but I can't imagine those sales numbers would provide the individual band members with much of a payday. $20-$30K each for Howe, Squire and White with David, Downes and Wakeman getting session pay?
> Look, if Henry's gonna make up sales numbers then surely he'd make up numbers more impressive than 35 on the charts in the US and 100k worldwide. 100k is about the first week of sales for Clockwork Angels in the US alone.
after being found out (busted) on so many of his baldfaced "reports",
it's easy to imagine Henry toning his dishonesty down to a more
believable level.
But in this case a well timed release during a particularly weak
period for releases did result in some chart performance...even if the
record likley wound up selling less that 50K worldwide.
> I imagine Frontiers probably turned a decent profit on the album which is why they want another one, but I can't imagine those sales numbers would provide the individual band members with much of a payday. $20-$30K each for Howe, Squire and White with David, Downes and Wakeman getting session pay?
I imagine the ownership of Frontiers does this as some sort of a hobby/
tax-dodge. The company website indicates total sales since inception
at a level that wouldn't keep most mom & pop businesses open for very
long.
Rob "and if they do want another from this lot, they've got very
questionable taste in music" Allen
Looking at some of Yes' labelmates on Frontiers is like a veritable rogues gallery of "Yuck!" so I definitely agree they have questionable tastes. Some people want that stuff though for whatever reason and with record label accounting in their favor they probably do OK though it is probably a different story for many of the artists.
On Dec 5, 12:13 pm, "use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk"
<use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 14:41:27 UTC, Peter wrote:
> > use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > > US first week sales were reportedly around 10k. (Definite figures known
> > > for UK (5342) and Japan (2328).) The album debuted at #36 in the US,
> > > falling to #97 the next week and #182 the third week, before leaving the
> > > chart. Also made #56 in Japan, #16 in Germany, #30 in UK, #147 in France,
> > > #49 in Italy etc.
> > That the Billboard site itself says it never charted doesn't concern you?
> On Dec 5, 12:13 pm, "use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk"
> <use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 14:41:27 UTC, Peter wrote:
> > > use...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > > > US first week sales were reportedly around 10k. (Definite figures known
> > > > for UK (5342) and Japan (2328).) The album debuted at #36 in the US,
> > > > falling to #97 the next week and #182 the third week, before leaving the
> > > > chart. Also made #56 in Japan, #16 in Germany, #30 in UK, #147 in France,
> > > > #49 in Italy etc.
> > > That the Billboard site itself says it never charted doesn't concern you?
I'm pretty sure it's a fact that when Peter looked up the record, the
indication on Billboard was that it had never charted. As I said in a
different post, I've seen that happen with actual Yes records that not
only charted well, but actually sold a very large number of units.
So it happened with _FFH_ too...no real surprise. Meanwhile, the
"promotion" of the charting of that record likely did not have the
intended effect. That record is and will always remain the poorest
selling studio record to ever carry the Yes brand name.
Rob "but interestingly enough, the sales for that record are still
better than the music on that record" Allen
