Roger Dean
Sean Barry
It is interesting to me that Roger Dean never designed a Yeswest cover. It
seems like Roger boycotts any Yes album without Steve Howe. Roger and
Steve are obviously close friends. Roger followed Steve on all of his
projects outside of Yes. Roger must also be friends with Geoff Downes
because he has continued doing Asia covers after Steve left the band.
Sean
Jeff Blanks
"Sean Barry" <s.b...@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> It is interesting to me that Roger Dean never designed a Yeswest cover. It
> seems like Roger boycotts any Yes album without Steve Howe.
More like the other way around, really--Yes without Steve Howe is unlikely
to use Dean. I suspect he would've liked to do the _Talk_ cover. I think
you got the rest right, though.
Otso Pakarinen
Yesterday I (once again) listened KTA and (once again) wondered who the
hell did the Yes logo compositing for the CD cover. The aliased white
pixels 'close to the edge' of the Yes logo are simply unacceptable.
Fortunately there are no similar 'mistakes' in the music.
Otso
Steven Sullivan
Sean Barry (s.b...@sk.sympatico.ca) wrote:
: It is interesting to me that Roger Dean never designed a Yeswest cover. It
: seems like Roger boycotts any Yes album without Steve Howe.
In this case, it was more that Yes wanted a different 'look' for to go
with their new sound.
Dominic Caciappo
Otso Pakarinen wrote:
who the
> hell did the Yes logo compositing for the CD cover. The aliased white
> pixels 'close to the edge' of the Yes logo are simply unacceptable.
> Fortunately there are no similar 'mistakes' in the music.
>
> Otso
Check the liner notes......
Another point that should be addressed is... I spoke to an employee of
the chain "Media Play", which is a HUGE store if you aren't familiar.
Yesterday he asked me what YES was doing these days, and I replied,"You
should have their new CD in your store!" He asked "O yea! What's it
called and what label is it on?" I answered it's a double disc titled
"Keys To Ascension" on CMC International." He then said, "That's their
new album!? I thought that was an old reissue of hits or something!"
The point he was making is that the cover art made him think that this
was a YES album from the 70's. Because this art looked very similar to
all the other's. Now of course, to us, the art is very nice, but to the
casual eye with the casual glimpse, this may appear to be nothing new.
My friend, the employee at Media Play, raised a point... "What if Pink
Floyd released an album with similar art to Dark Side Of The Moon every
time a new album was made?" Every album cover was unique.
I know we all consider Roger Dean pracically a member of Yes, but
perhaps the next Yes "Keys 2" CD should have a photo of the band on
stage playing live. Keep the logo, of course. But for the sake of
showing people that YES is not resting on their past, have some new
ideas, and some new art.
D.Caciappo
YESmag
Dominic Caciappo wrote:
<<Because this art looked very similar to
all the other's. Now of course, to us, the art is very nice, but to the
casual eye with the casual glimpse, this may appear to be nothing new. My
friend, the employee at Media Play, raised a point... "What if Pink
Floyd released an album with similar art to Dark Side Of The Moon every
time a new album was made?" Every album cover was unique.>>
Nic also suggests that the answer to Otso's question about who's fault the
"white pixels" around the logo on the cover of KTA can be found in the
liner notes is a subtle, but misplaced dig at us. (see our previous post
for an explanation about the logo).
While I would definitely agree that not enough was made of the fact that
this was a new live album, not a hits package, I think that having Roger
Dean cover art sends a very definite message to Yes fans that this is
classic Yes, not 80s Yes. Dean's art has been, is, and IMHO will always
be, the perfect compliment to the Yes music produced by this lineup. 90125
and BG had covers that attempted to capture the attitude of the music of
those albums. I think they are an accurate representation (90125 in
particular) of the music within, as is Peter Max' cover for TALK.
We took all of the photos that were used in the KTA album package, and it
would likely have been our photos that would be used for the cover if the
band and label were to have gone with a photo. *IF* anyone was leaning
that way, we would have argued as strongly as possible *AGAINST* using a
photo. Nothing says represents Yes like a Roger Dean painting, and fans
have been overwhelmingly vocal in there support of Dean. He truely *IS*
the sixth member of Yes.
No offense to your friend - but just because he can't distinguish between
Roger Deans, Picassos, or DaVincis, doesn't mean we can't.
Deciding to reconvene the classic lineup, with an eye towards making new
music in the tradition of the bands classic approach is in no way
regressive, or "resting on their past." Nor is reuniting with the
extraordinary artist who helped shape many of our perceptions of that
band. Dean's painting style has progressed throughout the years, and once
again forms the perfect union with Yes' music. We are glad to see Yes and
Roger Dean going forward together, and wouldn't have it another way.
-Doug & Glenn Gottlieb,
YES MAGAZINE
Rob
On Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:40:23 +0200, Otso Pakarinen <ot...@vpower.pp.fi>
wrote:
>Yesterday I (once again) listened KTA and (once again) wondered who the
>pixels 'close to the edge' of the Yes logo are simply unacceptable.
>Fortunately there are no similar 'mistakes' in the music.
Actually, there are.
"In and aaaaa- round the lake!" (the only one that annoys me)
Rob
http://darkknight.net/~raindog - ku...@ties.org
I crucified my hate and held the world within my hands.
Dominic Caciappo
Excuuuuuuse me for living! I was raising a valid point that a friend of
mine in the biz of selling music made to me regarding the new Yes CD. I
was simply repeating that he thought that the new Yes CD, "Keys To
Ascension," was some sort of reissue or hits package because the cover
appeared to look familiar. He thought that maybe this could be a problem
for the band without really knowing about it. HE said that if Pink Floyd
issued a CD that always looked like Dark Side Of The Moon, pretty soon
casual customers might think that this was another reissue of Dark Side
Of The Moon. Hmmm, good point. So, I thought that I would raise a point
that maybe Yes ought to consider, perhaps even on "Keys 2," to have a
photo of the colorful stage or the theater ceiling blended with the
classic Yes logo on the cover, that would be DIFFERENT, that might help
SALES, that might BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE BAND.... not ME! I was
seated with Alan White the evening the stage was being built before the
SLO shows. We stared at the ceiling and all the beautiful art and the
colors of the lights. Alan said himself that this ceiling was very Roger
Dean-like, that THIS should be the front cover! Great idea! I would
personally prefer to see Roger Dean art on every Yes cover, especially
if that means that without Dean we would have covers like "Going For The
One" or "Tormato." I was only suggesting that a live picture, yep, even
one by Gottliebs, would be cool to see on the front cover for the next
volume. Can you imagine the front cover with a photo like the one's that
Glenn Gottlieb took which were used inside the booklet pages, with the
Yes logo on top?! I would like that. Maybe someone walking down an aisle
with masses of CD's in a Tower store would turn their head to such a
colorful picture, with the Yes logo, and KNOW for certain that this is a
new Yes CD. I know that WE all know that this is a new Roger Dean cover,
a new Yes CD. But to the casual fan who seems to make up the masses,
this might make a significant difference in sales.
Now I do agree that it was the time and place for a Roger Dean cover for
the new Yes CD. I have to admit that with the invention of CD's and the
tiny booklets allowed for the package, that the art of the artist
suffers. Also, I have to admit, that some of Dean's work is better than
some of his recent work. Example: "Not Necessarily Acoustic" is
incredible when compared to "Yesyears." "ABWH" is a masterpiece compared
to "Symphonic Yes" and "Union" is better than "An Evening of Yes Music
Plus." That is only my opinion, and all of these covers are better than
anything from Peter Max. Some of Dean's covers ARE unique, not each one.
Look at the similarities of the basic landscapes.
I am in the business of selling CD's for a living and feel that after 20
years of retail experience, I have some idea of merchandising and
marketing. I do not claim to "know it all", but I cannot think of many
artists that release this much product with similar packaging. I am sad
that the masses buy some of the stuff that they buy. But they are the
one's that help some of our favorite bands continue. If they buy Keys 2
with a photo cover vs. Keys 1, and thus the band makes more money and
continues to make more music, isn't that worth it? If I'm wrong, then
I'm wrong. But I think with regards to the sales of Keys 1, Yes needs to
rethink the cover for Keys 2, lest someone thinks that this is Keys 1!
Now, finally, about the question that started this whole thing. Someone
wanted to know who was responsible for the "white pixels" on the "Keys
1" CD. I responded simply with, "Check the liner notes." This was not a
"misplaced dig" at the Gottliebs, because I know that they have nothing
to do with the front cover. I know that Roger Dean does is the artist of
this cover as well as the logo, not the Gotliebs. I know that Roger Dean
is ultimatly in charge or responsible, and I am glad that he is. I'm
sorry if you initially felt some blame. But I never intended it, all I
said was check the liner notes for cryin' out loud! Last time I checked
Roger Dean's name was listed as "Paintings, Logo, and Lettering ROGER
DEAN."
Finally......
I am not refering to Yes of the seventies, or classic Yes (like coke),
vs. eighties Yes, I am talking about NINETIES Yes, or even turn of the
century Yes. I want them to do whatever it takes to keep making this
kind of Yes music, even if it helps to rethink one measly cover (IF that
will sell sell more CD's.)
and.....
BTW, my friend does know the difference between Dean and Picasso, gimme
a break. He knows what people are buying, and I sure wish people would
buy the new YES CD, do you?
Nic
YESmag
<<Yesterday I (once again) listened KTA and (once again) wondered who the
hell did the Yes logo compositing for the CD cover. The aliased white
pixels 'close to the edge' of the Yes logo are simply unacceptable.>>
You have a keen eye. Roger was extremely displeased with that. It seems
the record label was provided with a revised file with a tighter clipping
path, and did not use it.
----------------------------------
Check out YES Magazine and our
catalog of official YES and Roger Dean
merchandise on the web at
http://www.yesmag.com
and sign up for our free email newsletter
email yes...@yesmag.com
YESmag
Dominic Caciappo wrote:
<<Because this art looked very similar to
all the other's. Now of course, to us, the art is very nice, but to the
casual eye with the casual glimpse, this may appear to be nothing new. My
friend, the employee at Media Play, raised a point... "What if Pink
Floyd released an album with similar art to Dark Side Of The Moon every
time a new album was made?" Every album cover was unique.>>
Nic also suggests that the answer to Otso's question about who's fault the
"white pixels" around the logo on the cover of KTA can be found in the
liner notes is a subtle, but misplaced dig at us. (see our previous post
for an explanation about the logo).
While I would definitely agree that not enough was made of the fact that
this was a new live album, not a hits package, I think that having Roger
Dean cover art sends a very definite message to Yes fans that this is
classic Yes, not 80s Yes. Dean's art has been, is, and IMHO will always
be, the perfect compliment to the Yes music produced by this lineup. 90125
and BG had covers that attempted to capture the attitude of the music of
those albums. I think they are an accurate representation (90125 in
particular) of the music within, as is Peter Max' cover for TALK.
We took all of the photos that were used in the KTA album package, and it
would likely have been our photos that would be used for the cover if the
band and label were to have gone with a photo. *IF* anyone was leaning
that way, we would have argued as strongly as possible *AGAINST* using a
photo. Nothing represents Yes like a Roger Dean painting, and fans have
been overwhelmingly vocal in their support of Dean. He truely *IS* the
sixth member of Yes.
No offense to your friend - but just because he can't distinguish between
Roger Deans, Picassos, or DaVincis, doesn't mean we can't.
Deciding to reconvene the classic lineup, with an eye towards making new
music in the tradition of the bands classic approach is in no way
regressive, or "resting on their past." Nor is reuniting with the
extraordinary artist who helped shape many of our perceptions of the band.
James Thomas Kirkhope
On 7 Jan 1997, YESmag wrote:
> Deciding to reconvene the classic lineup, with an eye towards making new
> music in the tradition of the bands classic approach is in no way
> regressive, or "resting on their past." Nor is reuniting with the
> extraordinary artist who helped shape many of our perceptions of the band.
> Dean's painting style has progressed throughout the years, and once again
> forms the perfect union with Yes' music. We are glad to see Yes and Roger
> Dean going forward together, and wouldn't have it another way.
>
> -Doug & Glenn Gottlieb,
> YES MAGAZINE
Yo, guys. I really appreciate your work with the band, but puh-lease put
down the pom-poms. Most of KtA was regressive (2nd,3rd&4th versions of
some tunes) and/or bad (BtO). Not a big fan of Tales, the only real
surprise for me was RSoG in that I see the piece in a new and more
flattering light. "America" never did anything for me in any of its
incarnations and was quite lame on the Fox morning show. And while I
rather enjoy "Awaken", the KtA version is tepid. TTI and RSoG are the
only two pieces that hold any real value for KtA (one being 23 years old)
- sounds regressive to me.
As for Dean, I agree he is a great compliment to the band. However,
though his style did indeed progress over the years as he integrated
architectural structures and an assortment of realistic and fantastic
creatures providing more dynamic composition (best illustrated by the
Drama cover ;), his arching rock formations "just stand there" perhaps
truly reflecting the dynamics of the current incarnation of Yes. I think
I'm in agreement with the suggestion for cover of the live performance.
But I still hold hope for KtA2...
- Jim
YESmag
Nic Caciappo writes:
<<if Pink Floyd issued a CD that always looked like Dark Side Of The Moon,
pretty soon casual customers might think that this was another reissue of
Dark Side>>
Pink Floyd has been releasing covers by Hipnosis/Storm Thorgeson for
years, and all are of a similar style. It seems to work pretty well for
them.
The same should be true for Yes. OF COURSE an artist's style is going to
be recognizable. If you could not look at the art and recognize the
artist, that would not say much for the artist, would it? Even in
instances of radical departure in style and approach, something, however
distant, will remain tying the work to the artist. It is inevitable and
inescapable.
For some people, simply recognizing an artist's work (or musician's) is an
achievement. No slight to those people, some people are wired into
different things. Other people can distinguishing between works by the
same artist, and appreciate the differences, be they subtle or other.
Whether or not you like the painting is down to your own taste. We happen
to think the images used in KTA are some of Roger's strongest to date.
Rendering the same fantastic scene in different moods is a typically witty
Dean touch - the masters often rendered the same landscapes time and
again, under different lighting and atmospheric conditions. Often, the
landscapes were a view from their windows. Applying this idea to a surreal
landscape is pure Dean. Then again, perhaps this *IS* the view from his
window.
We respectfully disagree with your marketing opinions, 20 years of retail
experience or not. From a marketing perspective, using the classic Roger
Dean logo and a new Dean painting on a cover by the reunited classic
lineup makes perfect sense. The band is still trying to overcome the
perception by those less in the know that this is a different YES than
went out on the road with TALK, and made a certain style of music in the
80s. They need to do everything possible to define who they are, and where
there music is coming from. It is coming from the classic 70s approach.
The Roger Dean Yes years.
What makes less sense is the entire album concept. I think this is where
some fans have been disappointed. People want new music from the band. And
from a business standpoint, someone should have realized that live albums
do not sell anymore. That's a fact. (Check out the article in Rolling
Stone that appeared a month or so before KTA was recorded). Even the
biggest, most consistent selling bands were tanking with live albums.
RS and others have cited MTV Unplugged as eclipsing the double live album.
We would have to agree. In fact, YES MAGAZINE sent copies of the RS
article to the band and management imploring them to reconsider a double
live album in favor of an unplugged approach (if they *had* to do a live
album at all). We posted a very pointed and direct editorial to that
affect on our website (http://www.yesmag.com) as well.
While a double live album from Yes was not the thing we would have MOST
wanted from YES, it is a really good album. I strongly believe that the
band and label have heard the requests of fans and those forwarded by the
fan organizations, that at they least include songs that
had not been recorded live before. We have been pushing for live versions
of songs like "Awaken," "America," TALES material and "Turn of the
Century" since the box set.
KTA2 is coming out in 1997, possibly as early as March. We think it would
be a HUGE MISTAKE TO FOLLOW NIC'S SUGGESTION, and go with a live photo for
the cover, no matter how cool it would be to have one of our photos used.
KTA2 will have a full album's worth of NEW STUDIO MATERIAL (along with the
remainder of the SLO tracks). If anything,we think they should
de-emphasize the "Live Hits" aspect of the album, and push the fact that
there is an album of new studio material here! A live photo on the cover
would not accomplish that. It would say, "More Live KTA."
YES MAGAZINE v7n1 is in the works. We would love to have your letters and
comments about KTA 1 & 2.
Email us at yes...@yesmag.com
Dominic Caciappo
I reiterate..... I was simply bringing up a point that a friend of mine
had made. A friend who is a MANAGER for a large chain music store, Media
Play, thought that the new YES CD was in fact an old one because the
cover was so similar to other YES related art on other CD's recently
released. This is an interesting point, which I have brought up to many
other people who are YES fans. Some have said that if we look at the Led
Zep art of the LP releases, one after the other was always unique and
different. The same for Pink Floyd. Recall the differences of the Dean
art from the Fragile art to Close to the Edge to Yessongs to Tales From
Topographic Oceans to Relayer. They were unique from each other. The
Dean art delivered to Yes or related CD's for the last 6 or 7 years has
been marginally different. There is not much life to some of his work,
in fact I have had a friend tell me tonight that Dean's work lately has
been barren and little dimension (Although the ABWH cover is a hard one
to top!)
As I said, I would prefer to see a Dean cover on EVERY YES CD. But this
band needs to sell some product. "Keys" fell far short of what the band
needed in SALES! "Keys2" needs something unique to stand out from Vol.1.
Another cover like Keys 1 or Yesyears will not make as much of an
impact. When Eric Clapton and Rod Stewart issued unplugged/live CD's
they had live cover pictures. I know that this "Keys 2" CD is more than
just another live album. So maybe a photo this time will not represent
the package inside, half live half studio. But neither will another
similar Dean painting.
The band has got to do something to sell CD's. It's clear that the last
album did not sell. It seems to have done worse than "Talk" if you can
believe that. So, if a photo cover helps sell only 20,000 more CD's then
so be it.
If a manager of Media Play doesn't see the differences between the art
of these Dean paintings and thinking that these Yes CD's are one in the
same that is not MY fault. I am just as dismayed at today's criterea for
selling music as the next Yes fan, and I have owned a store of my own
for six years! YES DOES need to do something different, for the 90's,
for their own sake, or this is the end. It is obvious that this subject
is too close to home to make an objective opinion here. This will be my
last response on this subject. The Yes fans on this newsgroup have more
of a desire for the music and news, as opposed to one persons self
centered biased conflicts of interests. We would buy the new Yes CD in a
brown paper wrapper if neccessary. I was just raising a point, with
regards to the masses of music buyers, that Yes may need to consider a
photo for the next cover. You didn't have to get all bent out of shape.
Nic Caciappo,
YES INFORMATION SERVICE
2221 McHenry Av Suite E
Modesto, California 95350
Rob Allen
We would buy the new Yes CD in a
>: brown paper wrapper if neccessary.
>: YES INFORMATION SERVICE
>: 2221 McHenry Av Suite E
>: Modesto, California 95350
>
>
>server has been fucked since the holidays, so I probably missed it. In
>any case, I agree with you: Dean's work for Yes projects since Drama
has
>been samey and uninspiring.
If the brown paper wrapper thing hadn't been done already it would get my
vote. But then I liked 90125, BG and Talk, inside and out, enough to
lift some of the images for my own personal and permanent use. The fact
that recent Dean covers are "samey" extends beyond Yes projects. Stand
KTA up next to that Supernatural Prog box set thing and you might see
what I mean. Now, of course, I do like both covers but I doubt the
"casual fan" would be moved to purchase because of them.
On the other hand, I was in Best Buy yesterday and I noticed that KTA
really stood out in the Yes section. I think it was the brighter colors,
the box and the placement in the rack that did it. I bought one for a
friend along with Iona, Veruca Salt, Wallflowers, the Tears for Fears b-
sides thing and Wakeman's Silent Night (just had the vinyl of that) for
me.
Rob
Steven Sullivan
Dominic Caciappo (nic...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: If a manager of Media Play doesn't see the differences between the art
: same that is not MY fault. I am just as dismayed at today's criterea for
: selling music as the next Yes fan, and I have owned a store of my own
: for six years! YES DOES need to do something different, for the 90's,
: for their own sake, or this is the end. It is obvious that this subject
: is too close to home to make an objective opinion here. This will be my
: last response on this subject. The Yes fans on this newsgroup have more
: of a desire for the music and news, as opposed to one persons self
: brown paper wrapper if neccessary. I was just raising a point, with
: photo for the next cover. You didn't have to get all bent out of shape.
: Nic Caciappo,
: YES INFORMATION SERVICE
: 2221 McHenry Av Suite E
: Modesto, California 95350
I didn't see much int he way of dissent from your opinion here, but my
server has been fucked since the holidays, so I probably missed it. In
any case, I agree with you: Dean's work for Yes projects since Drama has
been samey and uninspiring. Better just to keep his famous logo (I say go
back to the classic CttE era version, and forget this pillowy new version)
atop some new artist's work.
Failing that, maybe they could called the next studio-only one 'The New
Yes Album" so the record store guy won't get confused ;>
Dominic Caciappo
Okay.... can't resist, another reply. I **NEVER** said that **I** didn't
like the new CD package, I simply repeated what my friend said, and
thought that he may have a point. It does seem like Dean has saved his
best work for other projects other than Yes, one I forgot to mention is
what Rob Allen brought up, the Rhino prog box. That was really great.
Too bad the Yes cover wasn't as brilliant. But I do like this new cover,
enough to have framed the promo poster and hang it in my store at the
front counter. Of course, that might help people to notice this new CD
that's out, which by the way includes your pictures which are quite
nice. In fact, I have Dean art ALL OVER my office!
A variety of reasons that I don't like about the new CD cover? I've only
said that my friend was under the impression that this was not a new Yes
CD because the art was very familiar to him. I never said here that that
there are a variety of reason why I don't like it. I have said a variety
of times that I DO like it. Don't put words in my mouth.
A photo cover "would be a grave mistake"? Hey, how grave can it get?!!!
I think that the bottom line is that YES will do what YES will do. Even
if they simply let the cover be EXACT as the first volume and simply
slap the Dean lettering on the cover as "Keys.. 2". Now THAT would be a
grave mistake.
Nic Caciappo
YES INFORMATION SERVICE
The *Unofficial* Yes fanzine
c/o BEAT MUSIC
2221 McHenry Av
Modesto, CA 95350
Steven Sullivan
YESmag (yes...@aol.com) wrote:
: Nic Caciappo writes:
: <<if Pink Floyd issued a CD that always looked like Dark Side Of The Moon,
: pretty soon casual customers might think that this was another reissue of
: Dark Side>>
: Pink Floyd has been releasing covers by Hipnosis/Storm Thorgeson for
: years, and all are of a similar style. It seems to work pretty well for
: them.
Hipgnosis was/is more than one person, and the PF sleeves haves shown much
greater variety than Dean's Yes sleeves. Compare 'Animals' to 'Division
Bell' to 'Dark Side' and you'll get the idea. If Dean had varied his
approach*at least* this much there's be no thread here.
: The same should be true for Yes. OF COURSE an artist's style is going to
: be recognizable. If you could not look at the art and recognize the
: artist, that would not say much for the artist, would it? Even in
: instances of radical departure in style and approach, something, however
: distant, will remain tying the work to the artist. It is inevitable and
: inescapable.
No question tha Dean has forged a recorgnizable style. It's just that he
seems to be repeating himself.
: Whether or not you like the painting is down to your own taste. We happen
: to think the images used in KTA are some of Roger's strongest to date.
: Rendering the same fantastic scene in different moods is a typically witty
: Dean touch - the masters often rendered the same landscapes time and
: again, under different lighting and atmospheric conditions. Often, the
: landscapes were a view from their windows. Applying this idea to a surreal
: landscape is pure Dean. Then again, perhaps this *IS* the view from his
: window.
But landscapes are *all* Dean has been doing for Yes since...forever, it
seems. ANd as for wit: having Steve Howe floating face down in a fantasy
pond, amidst a landscape whose structural skeleton was showing -- *that*
was witty (the original Steve Howe album cover). KTA's over is just
tired.
: We respectfully disagree with your marketing opinions, 20 years of retail
: experience or not. From a marketing perspective, using the classic Roger
: Dean logo
..is probably enough.
: and a new Dean painting on a cover by the reunited classic
: lineup makes perfect sense. The band is still trying to overcome the
: perception by those less in the know that this is a different YES than
: went out on the road with TALK, and made a certain style of music in the
: 80s. They need to do everything possible to define who they are, and where
: there music is coming from. It is coming from the classic 70s approach.
: The Roger Dean Yes years.
But Dean's classic Yes covers were striking and varied (think of Fragile
vs. CttE vs. YEssongs vs. Tales). KTA looks like it's unfinished. WHere
the 'hook'? The fragmented earth on Fragile, the Rothko-esque field of
CttE green, the biomorphic frames of YEssongs, the Mayan pyramid of Tales,
the iceberg city of Relayer -- nothing leaps at you off the KTA cover like
these. And when you give it the benefit of doubt, looking closer, there's
*still* not much there.
: What makes less sense is the entire album concept. I think this is where
: some fans have been disappointed. People want new music from the band. And
: from a business standpoint, someone should have realized that live albums
: do not sell anymore. That's a fact. (Check out the article in Rolling
: Stone that appeared a month or so before KTA was recorded). Even the
: biggest, most consistent selling bands were tanking with live albums.
ALbums aren't selling well, period. THis was the second year in a row
of flat sales for the record biz; if not for the BEatles and Alannis,
things would have been grim indeed for 'rock'.
YESmag
We're not bent out of shape at all, nor do we think anyone mind's open and
frank discussion of all things Yes regardless of either of our
involvements/biases - in fact we think those involvements make these
exchanges quite interesting. Sorry if you've been worked up, but we've
been debating issues, not people. Nothing personal intended, but we
strongly disagree with your suggestions. I guess it comes down to this: WE
like the new cover art and packaging and were very pleased to have worked
on the booklet. You DON'T like it for a variety of reasons. We just
disagree.
We'd still welcome comments and suggestions about Yes, KTA, the packaging,
whatever at yes...@yesmag.com
Cheers,
Doug & Glenn Gottlieb
YES MAGAZINE
merry celeste
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Better just to keep his famous logo (I say go
> back to the classic CttE era version, and forget this pillowy new version)
> atop some new artist's work.
i kinda took a shine to the asian sort of pictograph-looking yeslogo on
union.
oxox
*m*
--
*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*
this, then, is life;
here is what has come to the surface
after so many throes and convulsions.
how curious! how real!
underfoot the divine soil--overhead the sun.
--walt whitman
*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*
Dominic Caciappo
YESmag wrote:>
> That's our $.02
>
> -Doug & Glenn, YES MAGAZINE
What do you know, that's the profit margin on the new CD.
Dr.Tony Shore
In article <32D3EA...@earthlink.net>, Dominic Caciappo
<nic...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Okay.... can't resist, another reply. I **NEVER** said that **I** didn't
> like the new CD package, I simply repeated what my friend said, and
> thought that he may have a point. It does seem like Dean has saved his
> best work for other projects other than Yes, one I forgot to mention is
> what Rob Allen brought up, the Rhino prog box. That was really great.
> Too bad the Yes cover wasn't as brilliant.
i agree with nic on this one...i know nic loves the KTA "packaging", as i
do, but the roger dean painting on the cover could have been much better
(i.e. drama, the prog box, etc.). i love roger dean, his are still my
favorite covers, but the last 3 or 4 "yes-related" things he's done have
definitely been similar and much weaker than his earlier yes
covers...that's all nic is saying...he and many other yes fans have told
me how much they love the job the gottliebs did on the packing...and i
agree, let's just try and get a more original and creative cover from
roger next time.
just my humble opinion,
dr. tony shore Sub€Lime Records
Blessed are the poor in spirit
Blessed are the meek
For theirs shall be the kingdom
That the power mongers seek
- BRUCE COCKBURN
merry celeste
YESmag wrote:
> Cheers,
> Doug & Glenn Gottlieb
> YES MAGAZINE
i have always appreciated the service you-all do to the furthering of
Yes amongs fans. great photos, especially. however, it is always
somehow unsettling to me that whichever one you *you* are doesn't sign
his name at the end of your posts. are you guys joined at the hip, or
lip, or wrists, or what?
YESmag
Nic writes:
<<Hey, how grave can it get?!!!>>
Fortunately, the situation is not "grave" at all (your words, not ours).
Nobody expected KTA to sell like a studio album, and while we're sure
everyone would have liked better sales, there isn't even a tour to support
the album (yet). We don't know what kind of sales were projected, but word
from the label and management has been that slow, gradual sales are what
they anticipated, climbing (slowly) when a tour kicked in, and things are
moving along that way.
Sales are down because live albums don't sell anymore, double live albums
REALLY don't sell anymore, there is no tour support, KTA is not on a major
label and Yes is not "fashionable" music these days.
If there is any confusion about Yes in the market (retail, concert
promotion, radio, etc.), I doubt that it is due to the cover of the album,
so much as the revolving lineups/approaches of recent years. Think about
what it must be like for people who only follow the band casually: ABWH
marks the return of the "classic" lineup, only to join forces in a UNION
with the 80s lineup before going back to the 80s lineup while the classic
members released a Symphonic album just prior to returning to replace the
80s lineup.
Yes can go a long way towards fixing the damage done by these
inconsistencies by keeping the lineup and musical approach in tact for a
bunch of new studio albums and tours. If the new music is any indication
of where they are going, Yes fans have some great music ahead.
Henry Potts
In article <5b14je$66p$1...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>, Steven Sullivan
<sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> writes
>YESmag (yes...@aol.com) wrote:
>: [...] from a business standpoint, someone should have realized that
>: live albums do not sell anymore. That's a fact. (Check out the
>: article in Rolling Stone that appeared a month or so before KTA was
>: recorded). Even the biggest, most consistent selling bands were
>: tanking with live albums.
>
>ALbums aren't selling well, period. THis was the second year in a row
>of flat sales for the record biz; if not for the BEatles and Alannis,
>things would have been grim indeed for 'rock'.
Depends what you mean by 'rock' and what country you are in. Pop
(including 'rock' and dance genres) album sales remained healthy in the
UK. I don't know about live albums or about _KtA_. More importantly, I
don't know what (worldwide) sales would satisfy Yes.
--
Henry
NP: Trevor Rabin, _Face to Face_... well, *someone* has to
Rob Allen
yes...@aol.com (YESmag) wrote:
>
>Yes can go a long way towards fixing the damage done by these
>inconsistencies by keeping the lineup and musical approach in tact for
a
>bunch of new studio albums and tours. If the new music is any
indication
>of where they are going, Yes fans have some great music ahead.
>
>That's our $.02
>
>-Doug & Glenn, YES MAGAZINE
Ah Yes, the Keys to Ascension, keep the lineup and musical approach
intact. The music is really whats important here. Some super cool Roger
Dean artwork would be a bonus and frankly, though I am pleased by KTA, I
expect KTAII to be a notch up, both in the music and the package.
Kind of a shame that Nic's post stating another man's opinion and
confusion resulted in the unseemly exchange we have witnessed here over
the last few days. You guys know each other and have worked well
together in the past i.e. SLO, how about lightening up a bit and move on
to brighter days.
Or.......we could form some new gangs, you guys could be the Yesmags and
Nic could have the Infoservers we could have some really cool titles. I
want to be something like Master of Time, Space and Dimension, then we
could run around beating each other up every chance we got and forget the
music and the packaging ever happened. Nice idea?
Rob
Anthony Lawless/Barry Morrison
Rob Allen wrote:
> If the brown paper wrapper thing hadn't been done already it would get > my vote. But then I liked 90125, BG and Talk, inside and out,
Great Goddess, so there *is* one person in the world who likes the _BG_
art! I suppose I lose my bet.
--
Top Flat 67 Norway Street, Kelburn, Wellington, New Zealand
Anthony "Slug of Doom" Lawless, GCP Barry Morrison
Ana-Therese Ward Rob Park
http://shell.ihug.co.nz/~norway
Cliff Stabbert
On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:09:57 -0800, Anthony Lawless/Barry Morrison
<nor...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
[snip]
>Great Goddess, so there *is* one person in the world who likes the _BG_
>art! I suppose I lose my bet.
Refresh my memory, Anthony...what were *you* going to eat?
Cliff "oh get your mind out of the gutter" Stabbert
Steven Sullivan
Henry Potts (he...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <5b14je$66p$1...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>, Steven Sullivan
: <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> writes
: >YESmag (yes...@aol.com) wrote:
: >: [...] from a business standpoint, someone should have realized that
: >: live albums do not sell anymore. That's a fact. (Check out the
: >: article in Rolling Stone that appeared a month or so before KTA was
: >: recorded). Even the biggest, most consistent selling bands were
: >: tanking with live albums.
: >
: >ALbums aren't selling well, period. THis was the second year in a row
: >of flat sales for the record biz; if not for the BEatles and Alannis,
: >things would have been grim indeed for 'rock'.
: Depends what you mean by 'rock' and what country you are in.
Doesn't matter, is the answer to the first. CD sales in every broad
musical category (rock/pop, jazz, country, classical) were flat or down
this year, in *this* country. The United States. You know...the country
all the Brit bands dream of conquering.
Gulliver
On 4 Jan 1997, Sean Barry wrote:
>
>
> It is interesting to me that Roger Dean never designed a Yeswest cover. It
> seems like Roger boycotts any Yes album without Steve Howe. Roger and
> Steve are obviously close friends. Roger followed Steve on all of his
> projects outside of Yes. Roger must also be friends with Geoff Downes
> because he has continued doing Asia covers after Steve left the band.
Steve own's the rights to the Dean-designed Yes logo. Might explain a
fing or two.
--
Angus Gulliver
a.w.r.g...@herts.ac.uk
also an...@spuddy.mew.co.uk
'I plan to live forever
or die trying.'
Rob Allen
Actually I think his bet his safe, it was just the evolved 90125 symbol
that was appreciated. Don't know anyone who likes the rest of it.
Rob
C and W Vig
Rob Allen (WCQ...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: yes...@aol.com (YESmag) wrote:
: >
: Rob
Thanks Rob, my thoughts exaclty!! Oh well, our own beloved Yes men
discuss matters in a very similar fashion, right? =) Listen, Nic,
Doug & Glenn, and Mike and Jeff, all of them do a wonderful job.
Jeremy S.
In article <5b4c96$1sn$4...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
Wrong. Sales are not down. Entertainment Weekly, 1/17/97 P. 33
"In fact, the race to see whether '96 would wind up a year of growth or
stagnation looked to be a photo finish. When SoundScan released year-end
figures this month, album sales were up from '95- albeit by just half a
percentage point, to 616.6 million from 616.3 million. So the good news
for the industry was, the sky ISN'T falling.
'I don't get what people are talking about. The people that had hits are
in a better mood than the people that didn't, and that's the wayu it's
a;ways been,' sighs Mercury pres. Danny Goldberg, who, yes, had some
hits. 'It's not like sales are DOWN. There had been some revenue
growth, due to the conversion [from vinyl] to CDs, and that particular
growth is over. The population of adolescents is reasonably flat. I
don't know why sales shouldn't be more or less the same.'"
--Jeremy
Steven Sullivan
Scott McDaniel (scott_m...@interactive.sony.com) wrote:
: Rob Allen wrote:
: >
: > Or.......we could form some new gangs, you guys could be the Yesmags and
: > Nic could have the Infoservers we could have some really cool titles. I
: > want to be something like Master of Time, Space and Dimension, then we
: > could run around beating each other up every chance we got and forget the
: > music and the packaging ever happened. Nice idea?
: >
: Ooh! Ooh! I want the power over who lives and who dies!
make that 'power over life and death' *with* the specification of 'total
horrible revenge on all my enemies' and 'as much money as I want' and I'm
in too.
And oh, alright, if you must, throw in 'peace and happiness for all the
children'.
Scott McDaniel
Rob Allen wrote:
>
> Or.......we could form some new gangs, you guys could be the Yesmags and
> Nic could have the Infoservers we could have some really cool titles. I
> want to be something like Master of Time, Space and Dimension, then we
> could run around beating each other up every chance we got and forget the
> music and the packaging ever happened. Nice idea?
>
Ooh! Ooh! I want the power over who lives and who dies!
Scott "And I want a Pop-Tart" McDaniel
Henry Potts
In article <5b4jm0$2l...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, Rob Allen
<WCQ...@prodigy.com> writes
>c...@interport.net (Cliff Stabbert) wrote:
>>On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:09:57 -0800, Anthony Lawless/Barry Morrison
>><nor...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>Great Goddess, so there *is* one person in the world who likes the
>>>_BG_ art! I suppose I lose my bet.
>>
>>Refresh my memory, Anthony...what were *you* going to eat?
>
>that was appreciated. Don't know anyone who likes the rest of it.
I like the _BG_ packaging. It's just so... yellow.
--
Henry
NP: Animal Logic, _Animal Logic_
Rob Allen
sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
>
>Scott McDaniel (scott_m...@interactive.sony.com) wrote:
'total
>horrible revenge on all my enemies' and 'as much money as I want' and
I'm
>in too.
>
>And oh, alright, if you must, throw in 'peace and happiness for all the
>children'.
>
A childlike MTSD might cause a long series of Yes experiences that would
absolutely please all and cause a.m.y to....................
(stuck for an ending)
Rob
Rob
Dominic Caciappo wrote:
>"What if Pink
>Floyd released an album with similar art to Dark Side Of The Moon every
>time a new album was made?" Every album cover was unique.
Actually, it's kind of ironic to bring up Pink Floyd in this context;
at my local Borders Books tonight, I noticed in one of their displays
the "Us and Them: Symphonic Music of Pink Floyd" cover, which was a
1995 Dean painting and which bears no resemblance to any Yes album
cover that I know of (and conveys a real feeling of motion thanks to
this dragon/snakelike thing which somehow manages to differ from the
Asia reptile(s)).
He's still got it in him. (c.f. the Starbucks poster, too.) Maybe
the band (or management company, or Steve?) is asking for the wrong
things. On the other hand, on www.cdnow.com the other night I noticed
a cover for a forthcoming album by the band "Space Needle" (never
heard of them) which appeared to be a Dean cover in a style very
similar to recent Yes-and-related covers. Go figure...
Rob
CRavndal
In spite of all the bickering on this thread, there are a few good things
to notice:
1. Nobody's bitching about the quality of the album (personally, I think
KTA is great - both in the cover and, far more importantly, in its music).
2. Nobody's doing much of the "the Yes I like is better than the Yes you
like" arguing, which NEVER ends up going anywhere.
3. Everyone on this thread still sounds excited about the release of KTA2,
myself included.
4. Everyone's also bought the album.
5. We all also probably like the idea of a tour this summer, followed by a
CD of all new Yes music.
To be successful in the biggest ways in today's pop/rock (general
reference terms only, thank you) market, I think you have to be young,
anti-establishment, psycho or weird/sick as hell (Marilyn Manson), pissed
off (Alanis Morrissette), hip-hop, controversial, or kinky/naked
(Madonna).
If the proletariat actually responded to quality music/musicianship first,
YES and bands like 'em would waste all these other fools. Too bad not
enough people truly listen to what's playing, and think for themselves.
By the way, who took my flannel shirt?
Nic, and Doug & Glenn, you all do an awesome job of keeping the rest of us
Yes-nuts informed. Keep up the great work. Nic, hope you and your store
came out of the flooding okay.
Chris Ravndal
Awaken Gentle Mass Touch
Steven Sullivan
Jeremy S. (jere...@csc.umd.edu) wrote:
: In article <5b4c96$1sn$4...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
: Steven Sullivan <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
: >Henry Potts (he...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: >: In article <5b14je$66p$1...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>, Steven Sullivan
: >: <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> writes
: >: >YESmag (yes...@aol.com) wrote:
: >: >: [...] from a business standpoint, someone should have realized that
: >: >: live albums do not sell anymore. That's a fact. (Check out the
: >: >: article in Rolling Stone that appeared a month or so before KTA was
: >: >: recorded). Even the biggest, most consistent selling bands were
: >: >: tanking with live albums.
: >: >
: >: >ALbums aren't selling well, period. THis was the second year in a row
: >: >of flat sales for the record biz; if not for the BEatles and Alannis,
: >: >things would have been grim indeed for 'rock'.
: >
: >: Depends what you mean by 'rock' and what country you are in.
: >
: >Doesn't matter, is the answer to the first. CD sales in every broad
: >musical category (rock/pop, jazz, country, classical) were flat or down
: >this year, in *this* country. The United States. You know...the country
: >all the Brit bands dream of conquering.
: Wrong. Sales are not down. Entertainment Weekly, 1/17/97 P. 33
The Times said they were flat overall, I extrapolated that that meant down
for some categories (e.g. classical). Of course, probably up for some
too, but not enough to boost the industry.
: "In fact, the race to see whether '96 would wind up a year of growth or
: stagnation looked to be a photo finish. When SoundScan released year-end
: figures this month, album sales were up from '95- albeit by just half a
: percentage point, to 616.6 million from 616.3 million. So the good news
: for the industry was, the sky ISN'T falling.
I guess the Times was wrong ;> Though +0.5 percent does not indicate
robust health to me.
Gary Hobish
>In article <5b4c96$1sn$4...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
>Steven Sullivan <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>>Henry Potts (he...@bondegezou.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>>: In article <5b14je$66p$1...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>, Steven Sullivan
>>: <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> writes
>>: >YESmag (yes...@aol.com) wrote:
>>: >: [...] from a business standpoint, someone should have realized that
>>: >: live albums do not sell anymore. That's a fact. (Check out the
>>: >: article in Rolling Stone that appeared a month or so before KTA was
>>: >: recorded). Even the biggest, most consistent selling bands were
>>: >: tanking with live albums.
>>: >
>>: >ALbums aren't selling well, period. THis was the second year in a row
>>: >of flat sales for the record biz; if not for the BEatles and Alannis,
>>: >things would have been grim indeed for 'rock'.
>>
>>: Depends what you mean by 'rock' and what country you are in.
>>
>>Doesn't matter, is the answer to the first. CD sales in every broad
>>musical category (rock/pop, jazz, country, classical) were flat or down
>>this year, in *this* country. The United States. You know...the country
>>all the Brit bands dream of conquering.
>
>Wrong. Sales are not down. Entertainment Weekly, 1/17/97 P. 33
>
>"In fact, the race to see whether '96 would wind up a year of growth or
>stagnation looked to be a photo finish. When SoundScan released year-end
>figures this month, album sales were up from '95- albeit by just half a
>percentage point, to 616.6 million from 616.3 million. So the good news
>for the industry was, the sky ISN'T falling.
>
>'I don't get what people are talking about. The people that had hits are
>in a better mood than the people that didn't, and that's the wayu it's
>a;ways been,' sighs Mercury pres. Danny Goldberg, who, yes, had some
>hits. 'It's not like sales are DOWN. There had been some revenue
>growth, due to the conversion [from vinyl] to CDs, and that particular
>growth is over. The population of adolescents is reasonably flat. I
>don't know why sales shouldn't be more or less the same.'"
>
>--Jeremy
I don't care what SoundScan says- I work for a companythat supplies
fixtures to retail entertainment stores, and when Camelot and Wherehouse
are in Chapter 11, and Musicland/Sam Goody/Media Play are CLOSING stores
instead of expanding, that means sales are DOWN.
--
/// To receive notices of performances by \\\
||| San Franciso's TRUE MARGRIT, |||
||| send email to gho...@hooked.net |||
"Doesn't the fact that it's Universal _make_ it International?"
(Mike Nelson, MST3K)
Rob
On 8 Jan 1997 21:46:22 GMT, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven
Sullivan) wrote:
>Hipgnosis was/is more than one person, and the PF sleeves haves shown much
>greater variety than Dean's Yes sleeves. Compare 'Animals' to 'Division
>Bell' to 'Dark Side' and you'll get the idea. If Dean had varied his
>approach*at least* this much there's be no thread here.
Well, compare Division zzz to Delicate zzz to Momentary zzz to that
one with the little embedded battery-powered gimmick zzz to Great
Dance zzz and try to tell me with a straight face that those covers
aren't at least as similar as the recent Dean-Yes-related covers. (In
fact, I'd go so far as to say that they're all derivative of the Wish
You Were Here style just as Dean's recent stuff seems to all be clones
of the Yessongs style.)
But Dean's PF cover was surprisingly different, so perhaps we need
Hipgnosis to do a Yes cover and then get them to switch.
Rob
Steven Sullivan
Rob (ku...@ties.org) wrote:
: On 8 Jan 1997 21:46:22 GMT, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven
Division bells' cover seems rather different from the other two you cite.
And US & Them *doesn't* strike me as all that different from anyting
Dean's done since around the time of Classic Yes. YesWest tried to get
away from Dean by using a 'graphic design' approach to album covers;
Hignosis has shown the ability to do both, 'portraiture' and purely
graphic design (e.g. Dark Side vs Animals). Dean hasn't done anything
'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
I'd like to see him try again.
Kevin R Coe
Rob <ku...@ties.org> wrote:
> On 8 Jan 1997 21:46:22 GMT, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven
> Sullivan) wrote:
> >Hipgnosis was/is more than one person, and the PF sleeves haves shown much
> >greater variety than Dean's Yes sleeves. Compare 'Animals' to 'Division
> >Bell' to 'Dark Side' and you'll get the idea. If Dean had varied his
> >approach*at least* this much there's be no thread here.
>
> Well, compare Division zzz to Delicate zzz to Momentary zzz to that
> one with the little embedded battery-powered gimmick zzz to Great
> Dance zzz and try to tell me with a straight face that those covers
> aren't at least as similar as the recent Dean-Yes-related covers. (In
> fact, I'd go so far as to say that they're all derivative of the Wish
> You Were Here style just as Dean's recent stuff seems to all be clones
> of the Yessongs style.)
>
> But Dean's PF cover was surprisingly different, so perhaps we need
> Hipgnosis to do a Yes cover and then get them to switch.
Been there. Done that. Going for the One. Still think it's a good
idea?
Rob
On 12 Jan 1997 22:42:50 GMT, crav...@aol.com (CRavndal) wrote:
>By the way, who took my flannel shirt?
I did. I'm so happy they're safe to wear again now that the music they're
associated with is unhip.
Rob
http://darkknight.net/~raindog - ku...@ties.org
I crucified my hate and held the world within my hands.
Rob
On 13 Jan 1997 14:06:31 GMT, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan)
wrote:
>Dean hasn't done anything
>'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
>I'd like to see him try again.
What of Turbulence, Homebrew and Yesyears? (I have NNA and GSoT but can't
actually remember either cover.)
Rob
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:00:59 +0000, kc...@prospectpr.co.uk (Kevin R Coe)
wrote:
>Been there. Done that. Going for the One. Still think it's a good
>idea?
Actually, Tormato also if I remember correctly. I rather like the GFTO
cover, and not because the model has a nice ass. I don't think it's the
right cover for GFTO, but I think it's a good cover.
Tormato is not a good cover. I passed over Tormato for months in the
cutout bin because I thought it was some kind of parody album and I didn't
recognize any of the songs (yes, that's right, at one point I regarded that
as a Bad Thing).
ROb
GiottoLady
In Article<32dd32a6...@206.72.200.65>, <ku...@ties.org> writes:
> On 13 Jan 1997 14:06:31 GMT, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan)
> wrote:
> >Dean hasn't done anything
> >'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
> >I'd like to see him try again.
>
> What of Turbulence, Homebrew and Yesyears? (I have NNA and GSoT but can't
> actually remember either cover.)
Dean hasn't been working alone for a while. "Turbulence" was a collaboration
with Kai Krause, "Homebrew" was designed in conjunction with Yes Magazine, and
"The Grand Scheme of Things" was mostly the work of Martyn Dean. "NNA" and
"YesYears" appear to be Roger solo.
The Giotto Lady
James Thomas Kirkhope
On 13 Jan 1997, Steven Sullivan wrote:
> graphic design (e.g. Dark Side vs Animals). Dean hasn't done anything
> 'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
> I'd like to see him try again.
Yeah, like maybe a blue airbrush wash with _Keys to Ascension_ in that
funky new Yesyears script! That'll really boost sales!
Or were you referring to the abstract/non-representational
plateau/waterfall on the inside sleeve?
- Jim
Steven Sullivan
Kevin R Coe (kc...@prospectpr.co.uk) wrote:
: Rob <ku...@ties.org> wrote:
: > On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:00:59 +0000, kc...@prospectpr.co.uk (Kevin R Coe)
: > wrote:
: > >Been there. Done that. Going for the One. Still think it's a good
: > >idea?
: >
: > Actually, Tormato also if I remember correctly. I rather like the GFTO
: > cover, and not because the model has a nice ass. I don't think it's the
: > right cover for GFTO, but I think it's a good cover.
: >
: > Tormato is not a good cover. I passed over Tormato for months in the
: > cutout bin because I thought it was some kind of parody album and I didn't
: > recognize any of the songs (yes, that's right, at one point I regarded that
: > as a Bad Thing).
: You're right, of course. Tormato was Hipgnosis. I prefer it to GFTO
: precisely because of the air of self-parody (the band in shades, looking
: cool, with a big juicy tomato splattered across them) and also because
: of its concision - nice neat single sleeve with a simple liner - much
: better than GFTO's grandiose and unwieldy origami.
Another vote in favor of Tormato's cover. IMO, though, the tomato should
ahve been splattered on the *back* photo.
Edward Antoniu
ku...@ties.org (Rob) writes:
>On 13 Jan 1997 14:06:31 GMT, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan)
>wrote:
>>Dean hasn't done anything
>>'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
>>I'd like to see him try again.
>What of Turbulence?
You can hardly tell it's Dean's work there when you look below the
title-logo. I don't mean an insult, but I think that my 6.5 year old might have
similarly thrown in a bunch of watercolours and spreaded them to suggest
turbulence. Or maybe rather chaos than turbulence. Or was it sensitive chaos?
>Rob
Eddie
--
Oh, this planet of ours is a mess. I bet heaven's the same! (Peter Sinfield)
ant...@cs.ualberta.ca http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~antoniu
Steven Sullivan
On NPR yesterday, there was a report about the msuic biz. Sales (gross
$$$) were indeed up, but a mere half percent from 1995, which was also a
stinker sales-wise, compared to the years preceding. Moreover, the actual
number of CDs sold was down in 1996 compared to 95. Even more
distressingly, the next 'big thing', the thing that's hotting up the radio
charts right now in markets like NYC, is a revivified form of *disco*,
according to the report. It seems the retro cycle has skipped the early
70's completely. As I mentioned before, the labels are moving back to a
'singles + filler' mentality for new releases. I can't imagine anything
more inimical to a large-scale prog renaissance.
It's also interesting to note, as Edward Macan did in his book, that
Progscape (an annual event showcasing prog bands in the msotly 'classic'
style, as opposed to, say, Ozric Tentacles) is the first rock parallel to
the jazz festivals that helped keep 'antique' styles of that genre alive
(e.g. Dixieland, big band, bebop) in the face of stylistic and cultural
evolution. Ironic thatwhat many of us grew up with as 'progressive' music
will probably end up being treated in such a 'caretaker'-like fashion,
more fit for early music.
Steven Sullivan
Rob (ku...@ties.org) wrote:
: On 13 Jan 1997 14:06:31 GMT, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan)
: wrote:
: >Dean hasn't done anything
: >'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
: >I'd like to see him try again.
: What of Turbulence, Homebrew and Yesyears? (I have NNA and GSoT but can't
: actually remember either cover.)
YOu got me on that one -- Homebrew is kind of interesting, just a
Deanified Steve Howe + title, against the shade of a giant YES logo.
That's actually borderline clever, except the green shade recalls CttE
*too much* . Turbulence's potential is marred by the abrasive title
grafix, YesYears is another landscape, NNA is a landscape + lizard, and
GSoT I only have on tape.
Steven Sullivan
James Thomas Kirkhope (jt...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: On 13 Jan 1997, Steven Sullivan wrote:
: > graphic design (e.g. Dark Side vs Animals). Dean hasn't done anything
: > 'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
: > I'd like to see him try again.
: Yeah, like maybe a blue airbrush wash with _Keys to Ascension_ in that
: funky new Yesyears script! That'll really boost sales!
A simple blue airbrush wash would be *too* derivative. But I see no
reason, your churlish guffawing aside, why something striking and
non-pictorial wouldn't work. Think 'Dark Side of the Moon." I think the
classic Yes logo would be needed to let people know it wasn't another
'Talk', in this case.
: Or were you referring to the abstract/non-representational
: plateau/waterfall on the inside sleeve?
That's neither abstract nor non-representational, dude.
Rob Allen
ku...@ties.org (Rob) wrote:
>
>On 13 Jan 1997 14:06:31 GMT, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven
Sullivan)
>wrote:
>>'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
>>I'd like to see him try again.
>
>What of Turbulence, Homebrew and Yesyears? (I have NNA and GSoT but
can't
>actually remember either cover.)
>
The _Not Necessarily Acoustic_ cover is more like what I would like to
see from Dean.
Rob
Bill Wade
ku...@ties.org (Rob) wrote:
:But Dean's PF cover was surprisingly different, so perhaps we need
:Hipgnosis to do a Yes cover and then get them to switch.
But Hipgnosis *did* do 2 Yes covers, 2 of the worst.
Kevin R Coe
Steven Sullivan <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
You say tomato on the front only, I say tomato on front *and* back. Is
there a difference between the US and UK sleeves, or have I missed more
of your deadly irony?
Tormato also has reasonably light-hearted sleeve notes, in keeping with
the tongue-in-cheek cover. Was there ever really a 'Gary from South
Shields'?
BTW, since it _is_ Hipgnosis, I've always assumed that the positioning
of the tomato on the front was deliberate, especially the, ahem, seeds.
Ball-breaking, as I believe you colonials say....
Kevin R Coe
Rob <ku...@ties.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:00:59 +0000, kc...@prospectpr.co.uk (Kevin R Coe)
> wrote:
> >Been there. Done that. Going for the One. Still think it's a good
> >idea?
>
> Actually, Tormato also if I remember correctly. I rather like the GFTO
> cover, and not because the model has a nice ass. I don't think it's the
> right cover for GFTO, but I think it's a good cover.
>
> Tormato is not a good cover. I passed over Tormato for months in the
> cutout bin because I thought it was some kind of parody album and I didn't
> recognize any of the songs (yes, that's right, at one point I regarded that
> as a Bad Thing).
You're right, of course. Tormato was Hipgnosis. I prefer it to GFTO
Alvin t Chase
In <5blmdk$bln$1...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu> sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
should
>ahve been splattered on the *back* photo.
>
>
Ruud van de Kruisweg
On 16 Jan 1997 02:09:18 GMT, WCQ...@prodigy.com (Rob Allen) wrote:
>The _Not Necessarily Acoustic_ cover is more like what I would like to
>see from Dean.
A pity though that Dean didn't do an original painting for that album. The
painting was originally used for the Atari ST/Amiga computer game 'Barbarian'
by the British software house Psygnosis. Dean designed the Psygnosis logo and
did all the cover designs for a couple of years. Most of these were a lot more
imagainative than the Yes covers. It's time for him to do something new after
all those landscapes (Wakeman's Greatest Hits, AWBH, Union, Yesyears, KtA,
etc.)
Ruud
==
Holland SF - SF in the low countries: http://www.bwot.tmf.hva.nl/~ncsf/
Ruud van de Kruisweg - The Flat Earth Company - krui...@flatearth.xs4all.nl
Anthony Lawless/Barry Morrison
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Another vote in favor of Tormato's cover. IMO, though, the tomato
> should have been splattered on the *back* photo.
Well, bits of it *did* make it over there.
--
Top Flat 67 Norway Street, Kelburn, Wellington, New Zealand
Anthony "Slug of Doom" Lawless, GCP Barry Morrison
Ana-Therese Ward Rob Park
http://shell.ihug.co.nz/~norway
Steven Sullivan
Anthony Lawless/Barry Morrison (nor...@ihug.co.nz) wrote:
: Steven Sullivan wrote:
: > Another vote in favor of Tormato's cover. IMO, though, the tomato
: > should have been splattered on the *back* photo.
: Well, bits of it *did* make it over there.
Then let me amend my post to : should have *only* been splattered on the
back cover.
CRavndal
After all this Roger Dean talk, I find myself thinking that my favorite
cover of his is Classic Yes. Why can't I ever have any luck finding a
copy of this in poster form? Why doesn't the Yes Magazine Roger Dean
merchandise dept. ever give us the chance to buy this one. I think the
color scheme is really cool, and somewhat contrasting to many of his other
covers.
Otso Pakarinen
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Another vote in favor of Tormato's cover. IMO, though, the tomato should
> ahve been splattered on the *back* photo.
Tell that to uncle Rick. AFAIK it was him who threw the tomato at the original
of Tormato cover (the album was to be called _Yes Tor_ originally) because he
thought it was awful.
Otso
Steven Sullivan
: > James Thomas Kirkhope (jt...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: > : On 13 Jan 1997, Steven Sullivan wrote:
: >
: > : > graphic design (e.g. Dark Side vs Animals). Dean hasn't done anything
: > : > 'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
: > : > I'd like to see him try again.
: >
: > : Yeah, like maybe a blue airbrush wash with _Keys to Ascension_ in that
: > : funky new Yesyears script! That'll really boost sales!
: >
: > A simple blue airbrush wash would be *too* derivative. But I see no
: > reason, your churlish guffawing aside, why something striking and
: > non-pictorial wouldn't work. Think 'Dark Side of the Moon."
: I'm thinkin' a beam of light through a prism becoming refracted into
: rainbow colors. Looks representational to me.
But non-pictorial, no? Does it represents a *scene* to you?
: > I think the
: > classic Yes logo would be needed to let people know it wasn't another
: > 'Talk', in this case.
: Well, Yesyears wasn't 'Talk' either, nor was it BG or 90215. What's yer
: point?
This: Talk could be construed as having followed my suggestions, i.e.,
more an exercise in graphic arts than 'scenery'.
: > : Or were you referring to the abstract/non-representational
: > : plateau/waterfall on the inside sleeve?
: >
: > That's neither abstract nor non-representational, dude.
: Uh, yeah. I noticed. Wasn't quite sure you had, man. The sarcasm,
: while perhaps weak, was painfully self-evident - your rejoinder not
: required.
It's always interesting to know what people find painfully self-evident.
I find again and again that I must supply the benefit of doubt.
Steven Sullivan
: > James Thomas Kirkhope (jt...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: > : On 16 Jan 1997, Steven Sullivan wrote:
: >
: > : > James Thomas Kirkhope (jt...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: > : > : On 13 Jan 1997, Steven Sullivan wrote:
: > : >
: > : > : > graphic design (e.g. Dark Side vs Animals). Dean hasn't done
anything : > : > : > 'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since
Close to the Edge -- : > : > : > I'd like to see him try again.
: > : >
: > : > : Yeah, like maybe a blue airbrush wash with _Keys to Ascension_
in that : > : > : funky new Yesyears script! That'll really boost sales!
: > : >
: > : > A simple blue airbrush wash would be *too* derivative. But I see no
: > : > reason, your churlish guffawing aside, why something striking and
: > : > non-pictorial wouldn't work. Think 'Dark Side of the Moon."
: >
: > : I'm thinkin' a beam of light through a prism becoming refracted into
: > : rainbow colors. Looks representational to me.
: >
: > But non-pictorial, no? Does it represents a *scene* to you?
: To your original post quoting "'graphic' or abstract,
: non-representational" I was referring. Your point of "non-pictorial" was
: added as a qualifyer later to support your unclear first point.
: Therefore, when I "think DSofM" cover I think representational and, in
: this case, a poor example to support the argument you were apparently
: making.
In this case, I *have* been giving you the benefit of doubt, and assumed
that even if I fumble for the mot juste to describe it, you perceive
the basic difference between a cover like DSotM and like KtA.
: In addition, it ignores much of the graphic work which provided
: the background of the Yesyears booklet, CD booklets, and CDs of the same
: package (not to mention the work previously discussed that Dean has done
: for Howe on recent efforts).
Is such pedantry the legacy of a Columbia education these days? We, or at
least I, am referring to the outer covers, what the buyer sees first. And
I have pointed out that Dean is capable of a more purely
'graphics'-oriented approach (e.g. the front cover of CttE), but for
whatever reason has tiresomely chosen to reiterate a 'scenic' approach
instead, in recent years.
: > : > I think the
: > : > classic Yes logo would be needed to let people know it wasn't another
: > : > 'Talk', in this case.
: >
: > : Well, Yesyears wasn't 'Talk' either, nor was it BG or 90215. What's yer
: > : point?
: >
: > This: Talk could be construed as having followed my suggestions, i.e.,
: > more an exercise in graphic arts than 'scenery'.
: But again, so could BG & 90215 be seen as following 'your' suggestion.
: Dean did none of the 3. The box cover of Yesyears notwithstanding, see
: my paragraph above.
You don't seem to be getting my point. I'd *like* to see Dean do
something similar to the YesWest era covers in *approach*, though not in
execution. That is, non-scenic, primarily "graphic arts"-inspired covers,
rather than painterly ones. THere's a small but unwelcome chance that some
clueless Yesfans might see such a cover and think: this is a YesWest
album, a follow up to Talk. Hence, my suggestion that the classic Yes
logo be used, jsut as it was used on the less 'scenic' designs used by
Hipgnosis on their Yes covers. It seems a good idea to me in any case,
since of the several Yes logos I've seen (including all of Dean's
variations), this one still pleases me most.
: > : > : Or were you referring to the abstract/non-representational
: > : > : plateau/waterfall on the inside sleeve?
: > : >
: > : > That's neither abstract nor non-representational, dude.
: >
: > : Uh, yeah. I noticed. Wasn't quite sure you had, man. The sarcasm,
: > : while perhaps weak, was painfully self-evident - your rejoinder not
: > : required.
: >
: > It's always interesting to know what people find painfully self-evident.
: > I find again and again that I must supply the benefit of doubt.
: Thanks for the generosity. I failed to realize that the juxtaposition of
: opposites for humorous effect was not generally regarded as irony which,
: when used as a gibe or a jeer ("generally ironical") is construed as
: sarcasm.
For an effect to be humorous, it first must be detectable: a
background/foreground problem. One way to overcome it to offset it with
statements that reflect comprehension, rather than ludicrous nitpicking.
Didn't they teach you that in Expository Writing?
: Don't worry. I'll warn you well in advance next time.
: PS That was sarcasm.
: That was it too!
: There it is again!
: Oops!
: How do I stop this?
Knowing when to stop is what separates the newbies from the old hands,
boy.
James Thomas Kirkhope
On 20 Jan 1997, Steven Sullivan wrote:
> James Thomas Kirkhope (jt...@columbia.edu) wrote:
> : On 16 Jan 1997, Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
> : > James Thomas Kirkhope (jt...@columbia.edu) wrote:
> : > : On 13 Jan 1997, Steven Sullivan wrote:
> : >
> : > : > graphic design (e.g. Dark Side vs Animals). Dean hasn't done anything
> : > : > 'graphic' or abstract, non-representational, since Close to the Edge --
> : > : > I'd like to see him try again.
> : >
> : > : Yeah, like maybe a blue airbrush wash with _Keys to Ascension_ in that
> : > : funky new Yesyears script! That'll really boost sales!
> : >
> : > A simple blue airbrush wash would be *too* derivative. But I see no
> : > reason, your churlish guffawing aside, why something striking and
> : > non-pictorial wouldn't work. Think 'Dark Side of the Moon."
>
> : I'm thinkin' a beam of light through a prism becoming refracted into
> : rainbow colors. Looks representational to me.
>
> But non-pictorial, no? Does it represents a *scene* to you?
To your original post quoting "'graphic' or abstract,
non-representational" I was referring. Your point of "non-pictorial" was
added as a qualifyer later to support your unclear first point.
Therefore, when I "think DSofM" cover I think representational and, in
this case, a poor example to support the argument you were apparently
making. In addition, it ignores much of the graphic work which provided
the background of the Yesyears booklet, CD booklets, and CDs of the same
package (not to mention the work previously discussed that Dean has done
for Howe on recent efforts).
> : > I think the
> : > classic Yes logo would be needed to let people know it wasn't another
> : > 'Talk', in this case.
>
> : Well, Yesyears wasn't 'Talk' either, nor was it BG or 90215. What's yer
> : point?
>
> This: Talk could be construed as having followed my suggestions, i.e.,
> more an exercise in graphic arts than 'scenery'.
But again, so could BG & 90215 be seen as following 'your' suggestion.
Dean did none of the 3. The box cover of Yesyears notwithstanding, see
my paragraph above.
> : > : Or were you referring to the abstract/non-representational
> : > : plateau/waterfall on the inside sleeve?
> : >
> : > That's neither abstract nor non-representational, dude.
>
> : Uh, yeah. I noticed. Wasn't quite sure you had, man. The sarcasm,
> : while perhaps weak, was painfully self-evident - your rejoinder not
> : required.
>
> It's always interesting to know what people find painfully self-evident.
> I find again and again that I must supply the benefit of doubt.
Thanks for the generosity. I failed to realize that the juxtaposition of
opposites for humorous effect was not generally regarded as irony which,
when used as a gibe or a jeer ("generally ironical") is construed as
sarcasm.
Don't worry. I'll warn you well in advance next time.
- Jim
Aaron M. Brown
>Knowing when to stop is what separates the newbies from the old hands,
>boy.
Maybe Roger should take this advice, stop painting and move to
Bali...he could finally use those frequent flyer miles.
merry celeste
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> I have pointed out that Dean is capable of a more purely
> 'graphics'-oriented approach (e.g. the front cover of CttE), but for
> whatever reason has tiresomely
your criticismof Dean's work is tiresome.
>chosen to reiterate a 'scenic' approach
> instead, in recent years.
Dean's scenes glow with regard for the Earth, exuding a rich, colorful,
emotional warmth. He portrays the importance of fantasy come alive.
His imagery is dreamlike and visionary. He illustrates the softness,
roundness, and soundness of Yes within his landscapes, his mindscapes,
his "pictures of distance."
> I'd *like* to see Dean do
> something similar to the YesWest era covers in *approach*, though not in
> execution. That is, non-scenic, primarily "graphic arts"-inspired covers,
> rather than painterly ones.
I'd *love* to see YOU do something other than complain.
oxox
*m*
*~**~*~**~**~*~**~**~*~**~**~*~**~**~*
Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
--TS Eliot
*~**~*~**~**~*~**~**~*~**~**~*~**~**~*
Steven Sullivan
merry celeste (cel...@bright.net) wrote:
: Steven Sullivan wrote:
: > I have pointed out that Dean is capable of a more purely
: > 'graphics'-oriented approach (e.g. the front cover of CttE), but for
: > whatever reason has tiresomely
: your criticismof Dean's work is tiresome.
sorry it doesn't make your heart sing or your tulips grow.
: >chosen to reiterate a 'scenic' approach
: > instead, in recent years.
: Dean's scenes glow with regard for the Earth, exuding a rich, colorful,
: emotional warmth. He portrays the importance of fantasy come alive.
: His imagery is dreamlike and visionary. He illustrates the softness,
: roundness, and soundness of Yes within his landscapes, his mindscapes,
: his "pictures of distance."
:
his 'contract fullfillments'
: > I'd *like* to see Dean do
: > something similar to the YesWest era covers in *approach*, though not in
: > execution. That is, non-scenic, primarily "graphic arts"-inspired covers,
: > rather than painterly ones.
: I'd *love* to see YOU do something other than complain.
Someone piss in your postum this morning, mer?
Kevin R Coe
merry celeste <cel...@bright.net> wrote:
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
> > I have pointed out that Dean is capable of a more purely
> > 'graphics'-oriented approach (e.g. the front cover of CttE), but for
> > whatever reason has tiresomely
>
> your criticismof Dean's work is tiresome.
Why? It seems pretty even-handed to me. Dean's first Yes cover was
innovative and instantly arresting, in fact one of the reasons Fragile
was the first Yes album I bought, back in 1971. CttE, while similar in
method of execution, was different in style again, and Sullivan has said
more than once that he *likes* that version of the logo, and that cover.
TfTO and Relayer were different again, although style was beginning to
win over content, which _might_ have been the reason for Hipgnosis doing
the next two covers. Drama, I thought, was a refreshing departure which
nonetheless harked back to former glories, but I really think Dean lost
the plot, or lost interest after that. ABWH, Union and KtA are all
pretty much interchangeable. Only the YesYears boxed set stands out
from the 80s covers, and that might have had more to do with the size of
the budget than with any desire to do something different.
>
> >chosen to reiterate a 'scenic' approach
> > instead, in recent years.
>
> Dean's scenes glow with regard for the Earth, exuding a rich, colorful,
> emotional warmth. He portrays the importance of fantasy come alive.
> His imagery is dreamlike and visionary. He illustrates the softness,
> roundness, and soundness of Yes within his landscapes, his mindscapes,
> his "pictures of distance."
Nonsense. This is what you *see* in his works. Read his book "Views"
(1975) where he talks about the relationship between his pictures and
the music, and I quote:
"He says that he has very rarely heard the music before doing an album
cover. 'I cannot say that the music is ever a direct inspiration for my
work. However, the music, the title and the artwork are all related, and
must all affect one another to some degree. For example, if a picture
was entitled 'Peace' and the image was of a poppy field the significance
would be different than if it was of a wrecked tank or a waterfall. The
picture changes the title, and the title changes the picture."
The book goes on to point out that Dean has not entitled any of the
pictures in the book (which includes double-page spreads of all his Yes
covers up to and including Relayer), but is nonetheless "fascinated by
the consequences of 'naming' images......he does not want an arbitrary
title to interfere with the chain of associations the image evokes in
each observer."
>
> > I'd *like* to see Dean do
> > something similar to the YesWest era covers in *approach*, though not in
> > execution. That is, non-scenic, primarily "graphic arts"-inspired covers,
> > rather than painterly ones.
>
> I'd *love* to see YOU do something other than complain.
And I'd love to see more reasoned debate in this NG....oh sorry, we've
already done that thread.
Rob
On 25 Jan 1997 02:04:25 GMT, "xponent" <xpo...@hic.net> wrote:
>appreciate her point of view, her predjudices and lack of tolerance have
>become glaring personality flaws.
Well, to have personality flaws, you need a personality - so she's one
up on most of the posters here.
Rob
xponent
merry celeste <cel...@bright.net> wrote in article
<32E8B2...@bright.net>...
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
> > I have pointed out that Dean is capable of a more purely
> > 'graphics'-oriented approach (e.g. the front cover of CttE), but for
> > whatever reason has tiresomely
>
> your criticismof Dean's work is tiresome.
>
Merry's overly defensive attacks against individual criticisms of things
Yes are beyond tiresome, they have become boring. Much as I like Merry and
appreciate her point of view, her predjudices and lack of tolerance have
become glaring personality flaws.
> >chosen to reiterate a 'scenic' approach
> > instead, in recent years.
>
> Dean's scenes glow with regard for the Earth, exuding a rich, colorful,
> emotional warmth. He portrays the importance of fantasy come alive.
> His imagery is dreamlike and visionary. He illustrates the softness,
> roundness, and soundness of Yes within his landscapes, his mindscapes,
> his "pictures of distance."
>
Merry shoould be one of those evil "spin doctors". Steves point is quite
valid. In fact I'd like to see Dean do something with more action and
motion or emotion. He used to do that more often.
> > I'd *like* to see Dean do
> > something similar to the YesWest era covers in *approach*, though not
in
> > execution. That is, non-scenic, primarily "graphic arts"-inspired
covers,
> > rather than painterly ones.
>
> I'd *love* to see YOU do something other than complain.
>
> oxox
> *m*
>
bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch moan moan moan moan moan gripe gripe gripe
gripe gripe
You got something interesting to say?
xponent
rob