an objective review of the new album
The Black Cat
collecting MP3s, but after hearing the amazing news that their album was
available on there, weeks before its official release, I couldnt resist. I
downloaded the necessary program, and after a few hours of confusion about how
to use it, I started the long process of downloading a free preview of the
long-awaited new release.
A little history: Ive been a loyal fan of the band since I first heard "New
Years Day" back in 1983, and went immediately to the record store and bought
"War". After that (beginning with UF), Ive bought their newest releases the
same day they were released. "The Joshua Tree" is, in my opinion, their
alltime masterpiece (and possibly the greatest album of all time), but I was
blown away by the new direction they took with "Achtung Baby" and the
incredible "ZooTV" shows (possibly the greatest live show of all time).
"Zooropa" was a letdown (although the title track is still one of my favorite
songs by them, in addition to being one of their most underrated), and "Pop"
was also a letdown (although it had some brilliant songs on it, especially "Do
You Feel Loved" and "Gone"). So Ive been looking forward to this new album,
although very apprehensively. I realize (sadly) that their days of intense
rock are over, and that is indeed a shame. But Ive always hope they would pull
another "Achtung" on me, and blow my mind once again.
Well, Ive finished listening to it, and Im ready to review it, so here goes...
1. BEAUTIFUL DAY
This is a wonderful song, uplifting and ethereal, with some truly amazing
backing vocals in the chorus, and brilliant guitar work. A great choice for a
first single.
2. ELEVATION
Another excellent song!! This is more like their older, balls-out rock,
and it gave me hope that maybe they were gonna "Achtung" me again.
3. WILD HONEY
A beautiful song, upbeat and wistful at the same time, very catchy riff.
By this time, I was getting VERY hopeful... and then, the band dropped the ball
and fumbled the game ... my worst fears were realized, in a MAJOR way ... yes
folks, after that GREAT triple-shot of songs, we descend into what I call "Bono
Manilow's Old Time Funeral Dirge Hour". The next FIVE songs are depressing,
pretentious, and dull:
4. STUCK IN A MOMENT
5. WALK ON
6. PEACE ON EARTH
7. WHEN I LOOK AT THE WORLD
8. GRACE (this last one being the worst of the lot)
Sorry, fans, but in my opinion, these songs represent U2 at their worst. Now,
I realize that many of you probably love these songs and this style (yknow,
Bono moaning along with a piano in a sad voice, or something along those
lines), and you are probably the same ones that wont agree with me that songs
like "Wake Up Dead Man" and the horrid "If God Will Send His Angels" are
practically unlistenable, to an extent that they nearly sank "Pop". I dont
have a problem with that, each to his own... I just happen to like music that
makes me feel GOOD. Even the slower songs on JT were uplifting. Sitting
through this group of songs was liked being forced to listen to a church
sermon, and I had the same urge that I get when I have to hear an especially
depressing Country music or Soft Rock ballad ... if I had a gun, Id probably
put a friggin BULLET in my head (or at least wedge two of them in my ears!)
Lots of people do like music like this... then again, lots of those same people
are really depressing to be around.
Well, after an endurance test like that, a song like:
9. IN A LITTLE WHILE
seemed fairly decent, although as far as U2 songs go, it wont be entering the
pantheon of their classics. Still, it was a fair improvement over the 5 songs
worth of dreck that came before it.
10. NEW YORK
A pretty good song with a cool beat and sound... in other words, a welcome
relief.
11. KITE
This is a very good song, possibly even a GREAT song... It sounds like
one of those songs that will continue to improve with repeat listenings, and I
will be playing it more.
So, as you can see, what started out as a great review turned into a pretty
negative one. Ive been reading the postings here, where some people have been
raving about this album, even saying its the best theyve ever done (?!)... in
my opinion, the pre-release and pre-tour buzz is going to these people's heads
faster than the fumes at a Grateful Dead concert ... either that, or they are
just so blindly devoted to the band that they have lost the ability to be
objective about them.
At any rate, I must sadly throw my lot in with those who say that the album is
a major disappointment, but one that nonetheless DOES have 4-5 songs that are
truly wonderful.
Now, with that all said, I would like to state a few things about what Ive seen
on this group lately:
1) There are certain people (I wont name names, but Ill bet they will be
responding to this review) who seem to get deeply offended when anyone posts
anything negative about this new album, almost like its a personal attack on U2
or even on themselves... these are the people that counter with snide phrases
like "well, you are obviously not a real U2 fan" (in other words, if you dont
agree with me, then you're wrong and not a "real" fan like me), or "you are
just a fan of their OLD styles" (as if there's anything wrong with that).
Well, to those people I would say this: I stated my opinion, and you certainly
can disagree with it and slobber over this album all you want, but dont tell me
that Im "not a fan" just because I dont want to fall in line with you and heap
praises on this album when I dont feel it deserves them. Ive been a loyal fan
of this band since some of you were toddlers, but that also doesnt make you any
"less" of a fan than me... so let's not go there. That kind of talk is really
idiotic, and makes you look really pathetic.
2) Sorry guys, but this album isnt going to be the hit that you are hoping
for... its going to do about as well as Pop, although I think a couple of the
songs do have the potential to be fairly successful singles. The album may go
to #1 for a very short time, but it will fall drastically. By the end of the
year, it will probably drop from the charts completely.
3) Dont count on that Rolling Stone cover... havent you noticed the kinds of
people that make the cover of that rag now?? Britney Spears, Eminem, and the
latest Rapper of the Month. The entire music industry is geared to the tastes
of hormonal, skateboard-riding, bleached-blond teenage half-wits, and Im afraid
that the days of U2 automatically rating the cover are probably over, although
they might be given one out of respect. We shall see.
OK, that's all for now. If you love the album, Im very happy for you, but I
just thought it should be known that not all U2 fans are happy with it. I
certainly respect your right to adore it, but please show the same respect for
those who dont.
the former "AnCatDub"
"Yes, and I know the truth, how bout you?"
Close to The Edge
on here if there was not the occasional alternative opinion. What I do say
however is this: If you really love something/somebody then you love
it/them all the time, whatever they do, whenever they do it. You can groan
with disappointment, or weep with happiness, but what you don't do is condem
them in public, or try to rip there hardest, heartfelt efforts to bits in
front of "friends". Let me say now that this is a wonderful set of songs.
it will probably only be number 1 for one week, the Spice girls will no
doubt take over after that, but that is not the point. We all write to this
news group because we share a common love for the greatest, longest running
band EVER. Maybe we are blind to the real effect this record will have on
the rest of the world, but do we care? Do we f***! We love the guys and
their music, not because we think the rest of the world has to too, but
because the mearest mention of them makes us weak at the knees, makes our
hearts race, our palms sweaty, and brings tears to our eyes! We would no
likely critisise them than we would our own family.! That, my friend, is
love; question it at your peril.
Mal
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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EyanTheMackem
"The Black Cat" <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001014172431...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
> 1. BEAUTIFUL DAY
> This is a wonderful song, uplifting and ethereal, with some truly
amazing
> backing vocals in the chorus, and brilliant guitar work. A great choice
for a
> first single.
Not the best on the disc
> 2. ELEVATION
> Another excellent song!! This is more like their older, balls-out
rock,
> and it gave me hope that maybe they were gonna "Achtung" me again.
Best song by a mile
>
> 3. WILD HONEY
> A beautiful song, upbeat and wistful at the same time, very catchy
riff.
Aye canny
>
>
> By this time, I was getting VERY hopeful... and then, the band dropped the
ball
> and fumbled the game ... my worst fears were realized, in a MAJOR way ...
yes
> folks, after that GREAT triple-shot of songs, we descend into what I call
"Bono
> Manilow's Old Time Funeral Dirge Hour". The next FIVE songs are
depressing,
> pretentious, and dull:
Snippety snip snip snip
Now your talkin shite sorry but you are
>
> 11. KITE
> This is a very good song, possibly even a GREAT song... It sounds
like
> one of those songs that will continue to improve with repeat listenings,
and I
> will be playing it more.
Fuck me you sure?
THE REST
Well fuck off and don't buy it TIT
The Black Cat
>Now your talkin shite sorry but you are
So that's your whole defense to the middle portion of the album? Well argued,
mate.
>Well fuck off and don't buy it TIT
Nice to see such a verbose and intellectual reaction to my review. thanks,
Einstein!
AnCat
The Black Cat
>OK, Let me begin by saying that I respect your views; it would be very dull
>on here if there was not the occasional alternative opinion.
That is true... I certainly respect the rights of people to love this album, I
only get annoyed with the ones that feel that I, as a longtime fan, dont have a
right to be critical of them.
>What I do say
>however is this: If you really love something/somebody then you love
>it/them all the time, whatever they do, whenever they do it. You can groan
>with disappointment, or weep with happiness, but what you don't do is condem
>them in public, or try to rip there hardest, heartfelt efforts to bits in
>front of "friends".
And this is where I completely disagree with you... to say that you must love
everything that U2 does, even if you think its, to put it in polite terms, not
good, is to be a mindless drone. For instance, another one of my alltime
favorite bands is The Doors, and in all honesty, at least 25% of what they
released on their albums was pretentious garbage. See, it's the 75% that was
great that really counts.. but that doesnt mean I have to embrace the dross.
> Let me say now that this is a wonderful set of songs.
>it will probably only be number 1 for one week, the Spice girls will no
>doubt take over after that, but that is not the point.
As I stated, I thought approximately 50% of the new album was good, even great.
But I cant lie and say that I loved the rest of it, because I didnt.
> We all write to this
>news group because we share a common love for the greatest, longest running
>band EVER. Maybe we are blind to the real effect this record will have on
>the rest of the world, but do we care? Do we f***! We love the guys and
>their music, not because we think the rest of the world has to too, but
>because the mearest mention of them makes us weak at the knees, makes our
>hearts race, our palms sweaty, and brings tears to our eyes! We would no
>likely critisise them than we would our own family.!
Whew, sorry to say, but methinks you might have a bit of a tenuous grasp on
reality. And by the way, I criticize my family when they fuck up too (and vice
versa).
>That, my friend, is
>love; question it at your peril.
That's your definition of love, eh? Hmm... I think Id better stop here, before
I say something that might hurt your feelings and put me in "peril". But
thanks for the polite response.
joey
Maybe they don't mean anything to you, but those songs have a common theme,
love, loss, redemption, and hope.
In 2 or 3 days, this album has touched places in me that I did not know even
existed.
I could agree or keep quiet if these songs were in any way shitty or
disposable.
I believe that two of the songs you dismissed are going to be staples of the
radio and hearts.
I'm sorry that you feel as if half of the record sucks, that's too bad, and
I disagree strongly with you.
Later.
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001014172431...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
The Black Cat
>That's just retarded, to write off 5 great songs like that as crap.
It's not "retarded", as you put it... it's my opinion, and its how I feel.
If the songs touched you in the way you described, that's fine and I can
respect your opinion... but please try to word your disagreement with the same
respect, there's no reason to fling a personal insult like that, just because I
wrote a review that you didnt agree with.
It's the kind of thing that bears out exactly what I was saying about the
intolerance of certain fans toward any kind of criticism of the band.
AnCat
blanke...@hotmail.com
pathetic. I'm sorry, but none of these songs will be hitting the radio
waves anytime soon (not that that means anything, but obviously that's
what U2 was striving for.) Seriously, if this is all 'high art' to you
guys, you all should probably crack open a book or something. Just an
opinion...
U2 WildHoney
>From: blanke...@hotmail.com
>Date: 10/14/2000 9:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time
>Message-id: <39E92CAC...@hotmail.com>
>
>Hmmm... A bunch of half-arsed songs "touched" you? This is kind of
>pathetic. I'm sorry, but none of these songs will be hitting the radio
>waves anytime soon (not that that means anything, but obviously that's
>what U2 was striving for.)
~~~~ Only time will tell. Then you can eat your words baby!
aim
Seriously, if this is all 'high art' to you
>guys, you all should probably crack open a book or something. Just an
>opinion...
>
_______________________
Let's be Friends!
U2WildHoney at aol dot com
Speechless, almost.........
http://www.u2fancams.com
_______________________
joey
Bwhahahahaha!
Fuck off idiot.
High art my ass, that's cute that you use that term.
I sure didn't, that's a term that applies to another band that can't get it
right.
I hear soul on this album, not "art" or depressing whiny navel
contemplation.
Jackass.
<blanke...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39E92CAC...@hotmail.com...
joey
The title of the thread.
Who the fuck crowned you Mrs. objective?
I sure didn't.
I'm sure you are a good person, and I apologize for the remarks, but coming
here and declaring that you have an objective ear is silly.
Personally, I hate 80 percent of music that is out there and I am very
critical.
But that does not give me the right to claim that I am all-knowing.
I just have an opinion, just like you, and I will state it.
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001014235706...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
SkidMerc
The Black Cat wrote:
>
> It took U2 to make me try out a new trend (Napster) when Im not even into
> collecting MP3s, but after hearing the amazing news that their album was
> available on there, weeks before its official release, I couldnt resist. I
> downloaded the necessary program, and after a few hours of confusion about how
> to use it, I started the long process of downloading a free preview of the
> long-awaited new release.
Fair enough, most of us here did the same.
>
> A little history: Ive been a loyal fan of the band since I first heard "New
> Years Day" back in 1983, and went immediately to the record store and bought
> "War". After that (beginning with UF), Ive bought their newest releases the
> same day they were released. "The Joshua Tree" is, in my opinion, their
> alltime masterpiece (and possibly the greatest album of all time), but I was
> blown away by the new direction they took with "Achtung Baby" and the
> incredible "ZooTV" shows (possibly the greatest live show of all time).
> "Zooropa" was a letdown (although the title track is still one of my favorite
> songs by them, in addition to being one of their most underrated), and "Pop"
> was also a letdown (although it had some brilliant songs on it, especially "Do
> You Feel Loved" and "Gone"). So Ive been looking forward to this new album,
> although very apprehensively. I realize (sadly) that their days of intense
> rock are over, and that is indeed a shame. But Ive always hope they would pull
> another "Achtung" on me, and blow my mind once again.
>
> Well, Ive finished listening to it, and Im ready to review it, so here goes...
>
> 1. BEAUTIFUL DAY
> This is a wonderful song, uplifting and ethereal, with some truly amazing
> backing vocals in the chorus, and brilliant guitar work. A great choice for a
> first single.
Its a good opener to the album I think, starts with a bang of uplifting
music.
> 2. ELEVATION
> Another excellent song!! This is more like their older, balls-out rock,
> and it gave me hope that maybe they were gonna "Achtung" me again.
Its a good song, its new, and fresh. To me its the Discotheque of this
new album, maybe because its the "danciest"?
> 3. WILD HONEY
> A beautiful song, upbeat and wistful at the same time, very catchy riff.
I cant stand this song to be honest, its sickly. I know a fair few folk
love it, and thats fine by me.
>
> By this time, I was getting VERY hopeful... and then, the band dropped the ball
> and fumbled the game ... my worst fears were realized, in a MAJOR way ... yes
> folks, after that GREAT triple-shot of songs, we descend into what I call "Bono
> Manilow's Old Time Funeral Dirge Hour". The next FIVE songs are depressing,
> pretentious, and dull:
Ach, I cant really agree with you there, but ill take your opinion on
board...
>
> 4. STUCK IN A MOMENT
Im not a big fan of this song either. Its chorus melody is really
unoriginal, ive heard this song before somehow. Its listenable though.
> 5. WALK ON
This is my favourite song on the album. Its amazing. If you dont like it
then thats cool, but I urge you to give it another listen.
> 6. PEACE ON EARTH
I reckon this is a great song. Coming from the same place as "Mothers Of
The Dissapeared". Its a soft "Sunday Bloody Sunday" in many ways.
> 7. WHEN I LOOK AT THE WORLD
Its a chirpy song, quite birght I think. Its above average.
> 8. GRACE (this last one being the worst of the lot)
I think this song is a grower.
> Sorry, fans, but in my opinion, these songs represent U2 at their worst. Now,
> I realize that many of you probably love these songs and this style (yknow,
> Bono moaning along with a piano in a sad voice, or something along those
> lines), and you are probably the same ones that wont agree with me that songs
> like "Wake Up Dead Man"
i did like WUDM. Quietly angry if you know what i mean?
> and the horrid "If God Will Send His Angels"
heheheh, I LOVE that song. I love the midle 8 "so where is the hope, and
where is the faith and the love?".
> are practically unlistenable, to an extent that they nearly sank "Pop". I dont
> have a problem with that, each to his own... I just happen to like music that
> makes me feel GOOD. Even the slower songs on JT were uplifting. Sitting
> through this group of songs was liked being forced to listen to a church
> sermon, and I had the same urge that I get when I have to hear an especially
> depressing Country music or Soft Rock ballad ...
I think this is quite interesting. I would class Wild Honey as a country
song, but you say you like it?
Not trying to condemn you or anything, just curious.
> if I had a gun, Id probably
> put a friggin BULLET in my head (or at least wedge two of them in my ears!)
> Lots of people do like music like this... then again, lots of those same people
> are really depressing to be around.
Oh, cheapshot! ;-)
> Well, after an endurance test like that, a song like:
>
> 9. IN A LITTLE WHILE
>
> seemed fairly decent, although as far as U2 songs go, it wont be entering the
> pantheon of their classics. Still, it was a fair improvement over the 5 songs
> worth of dreck that came before it.
Im not too familiar with this song. So im not gonna comment.
> 10. NEW YORK
> A pretty good song with a cool beat and sound... in other words, a welcome
> relief.
Yeah, it reminds me of "Miami" a bit. Especially the chorus. I like
Miama cause its different, but this is how Miami SHOULD have been done
IMO.
> 11. KITE
> This is a very good song, possibly even a GREAT song... It sounds like
> one of those songs that will continue to improve with repeat listenings, and I
> will be playing it more.
I totally agree, one of the strongest songs on the album.
> So, as you can see, what started out as a great review turned into a pretty
> negative one. Ive been reading the postings here, where some people have been
> raving about this album, even saying its the best theyve ever done (?!)... in
> my opinion, the pre-release and pre-tour buzz is going to these people's heads
> faster than the fumes at a Grateful Dead concert ... either that, or they are
> just so blindly devoted to the band that they have lost the ability to be
> objective about them.
I understand what your saying. There may be a few folk out there who
LOVE the album, and there may be a few folk out there who are a bit
biased as you say. I think its "good". Not their best by a distance, but
still pretty good. At first I loved it to bits, but after a few listens
I was skipping tracks, and disliking certain songs.
> At any rate, I must sadly throw my lot in with those who say that the album is
> a major disappointment, but one that nonetheless DOES have 4-5 songs that are
> truly wonderful.
>
> Now, with that all said, I would like to state a few things about what Ive seen
> on this group lately:
>
> 1) There are certain people (I wont name names, but Ill bet they will be
> responding to this review) who seem to get deeply offended when anyone posts
> anything negative about this new album, almost like its a personal attack on U2
> or even on themselves... these are the people that counter with snide phrases
> like "well, you are obviously not a real U2 fan" (in other words, if you dont
> agree with me, then you're wrong and not a "real" fan like me), or "you are
> just a fan of their OLD styles" (as if there's anything wrong with that).
> Well, to those people I would say this: I stated my opinion, and you certainly
> can disagree with it and slobber over this album all you want, but dont tell me
> that Im "not a fan" just because I dont want to fall in line with you and heap
> praises on this album when I dont feel it deserves them. Ive been a loyal fan
> of this band since some of you were toddlers, but that also doesnt make you any
> "less" of a fan than me... so let's not go there. That kind of talk is really
> idiotic, and makes you look really pathetic.
Yeah, poeple in here just love U2 and are defensive of them. i wouldnt
blame anyone for that at all. Ive done the same myself, as anyone who
has ever taken a look in alt.music.stone-roses will know.
> 2) Sorry guys, but this album isnt going to be the hit that you are hoping
> for... its going to do about as well as Pop, although I think a couple of the
> songs do have the potential to be fairly successful singles. The album may go
> to #1 for a very short time, but it will fall drastically. By the end of the
> year, it will probably drop from the charts completely.
I think it depends on whethere attitudes change. Right now its seriosuly
uncool to like U2.
> 3) Dont count on that Rolling Stone cover... havent you noticed the kinds of
> people that make the cover of that rag now?? Britney Spears, Eminem, and the
> latest Rapper of the Month. The entire music industry is geared to the tastes
> of hormonal, skateboard-riding, bleached-blond teenage half-wits, and Im afraid
> that the days of U2 automatically rating the cover are probably over, although
> they might be given one out of respect. We shall see.
It makes no difference to me if they are on Rolling Stone or not.
> OK, that's all for now. If you love the album, Im very happy for you, but I
> just thought it should be known that not all U2 fans are happy with it. I
> certainly respect your right to adore it, but please show the same respect for
> those who dont.
> the former "AnCatDub"
>
>
>
There are certainly people out there who genuinly love it. After a while
i was bored with some of it, which is a bit dissapointing. I still
reckon there are some outstanding songs on the album. Time will tell
though how this will be recieved by fans, and the press.
Try Out
wrote:
>So, as you can see, what started out as a great review turned into a pretty
>negative one. Ive been reading the postings here, where some people have been
>raving about this album, even saying its the best theyve ever done (?!)... in
>my opinion, the pre-release and pre-tour buzz is going to these people's heads
>faster than the fumes at a Grateful Dead concert ... either that, or they are
>just so blindly devoted to the band that they have lost the ability to be
>objective about them.
I think it's wrong of you to say that people aren't being objective if
they really like this album.
Krundle
SkidMerc wrote:
Time will tell if its loved by the press and fans????,so you wait for the reaction by
other people and the critics until you say whether you like it or not?!?!?!.
The Black Cat
>You know what I find offensive?
>The title of the thread.
>Who the fuck crowned you Mrs. objective?
>I sure didn't.
First of all, that's MR. objective if you please (where did you get the idea
that Im female? or was that meant as an insult?) ... and what it means is that
even though I am a fan, I am looking at the album objectively, not
automatically proclaiming it a masterpiece. You obviously have a real attitude
problem when it comes to others stating an opinion that you disagree with.
>I'm sure you are a good person, and I apologize for the remarks, but coming
>here and declaring that you have an objective ear is silly.
Personally, I think saying something like "who the fuck crowned you Mrs
objective", and then in the next sentence saying "I apologize for the remarks"
is silly. You need to seriously lighten up.
>Personally, I hate 80 percent of music that is out there and I am very
>critical.
>But that does not give me the right to claim that I am all-knowing.
>I just have an opinion, just like you, and I will state it.
Who said I think I am "all knowing"? I just meant that I am looking at the
album objectively, not giving it a break because I am a fan of the band.
Do me a big favor, and dont read things into my words that arent there, ok?
joey
You are a troll looking to argue.
Just go away.
Thanks.
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001015131540...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
joey
themselves?
Give me a break.
The real issue here is you.
You see things here on the NG and assume that we are blind sheep because we
like the new album.
Are you are here to save us or something?
It must be hard to type with the nail wounds in the hands, Mr. Christ.
It's Sunday, relax.
The Black Cat
>The thread was a trolling device, you state this quite clearly.
>You are a troll looking to argue.
>Just go away.
>Thanks.
No, the thread was me stating my opinion about the album. And (to use your own
trolling device against you) who proclaimed you the god of the newsgroup that
can tell people when to "go away"? Looks to me like you are the only troll
here.
Almost everyone else has stated their disagreement with me politely, and theyve
gotten the same in return from me... you are the only one that insists on
continuing with your petty and immature attacks. So why dont you quit while
you're ahead, youngster? Youre making yourself look quite foolish.
joey
Read the initial post again.
You state quite clearly what you are doing.
Now you have it.
Happy?
Just fuck off ok?
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001015132905...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
The Black Cat
>You assume that because people are fans that they will not be true to
>themselves?
>Give me a break.
Again, you are assuming things that I never stated. Dont try stating my words
for me, pally, I can do that myself.
>The real issue here is you.
>You see things here on the NG and assume that we are blind sheep because we
>like the new album.
> Are you are here to save us or something?
>It must be hard to type with the nail wounds in the hands, Mr. Christ.
>It's Sunday, relax.
Try taking your own advice, kiddo, and RELAX... is the ritalin wearing off or
something?
The Black Cat
>Wrong.
>Read the initial post again.
>You state quite clearly what you are doing.
>Now you have it.
>Happy?
>Just fuck off ok?
So if its there in the original post, then quote it, shit-for-brains.
Otherwise, shut up already.
joey
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001015133328...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
SkidMerc
>
> Time will tell if its loved by the press and fans????,so you wait for the reaction by
> other people and the critics until you say whether you like it or not?!?!?!.
No, i think ive made it perfectly clear that i think its "good", i said
that sereral times.
Im just saying that we wont find out what outside opinion is for a few
weeks/months yet. It was a simple statement, dont go looking for
something that isnt there.
The Black Cat
>Oh come on Jesus, you can do better than that.
Hehe... its such fun to get a Troll to show their true colors. Cmon, keep the
argument going... what a hypocrite you are!
The Black Cat
>It was a simple statement, dont go looking for
>something that isnt there.
I know what you mean, Marc, certain people seem to be doing the same thing with
my words too.
U2 WildHoney
anyone else but you both are bugging the shit out of me.
aim
_______________________
Let's be Friends!
U2WildHoney at aol dot com
Speechless, almost.........
http://www.u2fancams.com
_______________________
I'm not afraid to die, I'm not afraid to live and when I am flat on my back I
hope I feel like I did
The Black Cat
>~~~~~ I have a suggestion,, take it to a private email. I don't know about
>anyone else but you both are bugging the shit out of me.
Sorry, but when someone starts with the personal attacks and twisting of my
words, I will defend myself... Im a counter puncher, and when they stop, so
will I.
joey
1) There are certain people (I wont name names, but Ill bet they will be
responding to this review) who seem to get deeply offended when anyone posts
anything negative about this new album, almost like its a personal attack on
U2
or even on themselves... these are the people that counter with snide
phrases
like "well, you are obviously not a real U2 fan" (in other words, if you
dont
agree with me, then you're wrong and not a "real" fan like me), or "you are
just a fan of their OLD styles" (as if there's anything wrong with that).
Well, to those people I would say this: I stated my opinion, and you
certainly
can disagree with it and slobber over this album all you want, but dont tell
me
that Im "not a fan" just because I dont want to fall in line with you and
heap
praises on this album when I dont feel it deserves them. Ive been a loyal
fan
of this band since some of you were toddlers, but that also doesnt make you
any
"less" of a fan than me... so let's not go there. That kind of talk is
really
idiotic, and makes you look really pathetic.
There ya go.
I have no time for this.
I will write a song about it though, it shall be called "Objective Jesus"
and it will be a country song.
OJ, liked to send letters from the hill
He accused the blind of eating pills
OJ is here to make a point
He lost his way whilst sucking on a joint.
Oh lord, shine the funkadelic flashlight so i can find my way.
Woooooooo hoooooooooooooooooo. wOoOoOoOooOoO.
<g>
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001015133611...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
> Joey wrote:
>
> >Wrong.
> >Read the initial post again.
> >You state quite clearly what you are doing.
> >Now you have it.
> >Happy?
> >Just fuck off ok?
>
> So if its there in the original post, then quote it, shit-for-brains.
> Otherwise, shut up already.
>
The Black Cat
(quoting my original post)
>1) There are certain people (I wont name names, but Ill bet they will be
>responding to this review) who seem to get deeply offended when anyone posts
>anything negative about this new album, almost like its a personal attack on
>U2
>or even on themselves... these are the people that counter with snide
>phrases
>like "well, you are obviously not a real U2 fan" (in other words, if you
>dont
>agree with me, then you're wrong and not a "real" fan like me), or "you are
>just a fan of their OLD styles" (as if there's anything wrong with that).
>Well, to those people I would say this: I stated my opinion, and you
>certainly
>can disagree with it and slobber over this album all you want, but dont tell
>me
>that Im "not a fan" just because I dont want to fall in line with you and
>heap
>praises on this album when I dont feel it deserves them. Ive been a loyal
>fan
>of this band since some of you were toddlers, but that also doesnt make you
>any
>"less" of a fan than me... so let's not go there. That kind of talk is
>really
>idiotic, and makes you look really pathetic.
Exactly, and thank you for quoting my actual words... there ARE people who
automatically attack someone for stating a negative opinion about something
that U2 does. I wasnt talking about people who love the album, I was talking
about people (like yourself) who cant stand to see someone say anything
derogatory about it, and then start an attack on the person for saying it. Im
sorry if I stated it in a way that you found confusing.
Fortunately, most of the people that have responded have shown a lot more
maturity and respect in their posts than yours (ie, calling someone "retarded",
and telling them to "fuck off", etc)... so basically, you proved the point I
was trying to make in the paragraph you quoted. Congratulations!
>There ya go.
>I have no time for this.
>I will write a song about it though, it shall be called "Objective Jesus"
>and it will be a country song.
A country song? blecch... now I know you have no taste!! ;) <---- (note:
this is a sign meant to imply that I am "just kidding", in hopes that you
actually have a sense of humor hidden somewhere within you)
But at any rate, Im glad you learned to quote, its a lot better than putting
someone else's words into your own (and getting them wrong).
Now why dont you take U2WildHoney's advice and bring this foolish argument to a
halt, since you "have no time for this"? We disagree on the album, and if you
could learn to use a little more politeness in your responses, you might
actually get it in return. What a plan!
AnCat
aka "Objective Jesus"
<off to cure some lepers and such>
joey
After you push the "send" key, it is off to subjectiveland.
Are you with me still? <g>
Action speaks louder than words to quote "Difford&Tillbrook", and I
still feel that this thread was and is one person's opinion stated in a way
that is inflammatory and condescending.
I'm sorry that you dislike the album (or part of it) and for the sarcastic
tones from me.
As far as Aim goes and advice, what you have witnessed is two old dogs
sniffing each others asses for an hour or two, nothing to see here, move
along. <g>
Have a good one Black Cat!
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001015141436...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
U2 WildHoney
>sniffing each others asses for an hour or two, nothing to see here, move
>along. <g>
>Have a good one Black Cat!
>
~~~~ gad I hate it when that happens LOL
mars tokyo
Try Out wrote:
> On 14 Oct 2000 21:24:31 GMT, ancatd...@aol.comEDGE (The Black Cat)
> wrote:
>
> >So, as you can see, what started out as a great review turned into a pretty
> >negative one. Ive been reading the postings here, where some people have been
> >raving about this album, even saying its the best theyve ever done (?!)... in
> >my opinion, the pre-release and pre-tour buzz is going to these people's heads
> >faster than the fumes at a Grateful Dead concert ... either that, or they are
> >just so blindly devoted to the band that they have lost the ability to be
> >objective about them.
>
> I think it's wrong of you to say that people aren't being objective if
> they really like this album.
Define the word OBJECTIVE .....cos in my book-- there's no such thing as an
"objective review" by it's very nature, a review is an opinion--and opinions are
SUBJECTIVE --- period. It's not that one thing is good (being objective) and the
other is bad (being subjective)---it's an opinion. Articles that quote fact may be
objectively written. But reviews of music, art, film etc.... are all opinion and
so are subjective.
the grammar polic now rests its case.
mars :-)
--
the mars tokyo visual diary
POP goes U2
http://marstokyo.com/u2devo.html
mars tokyo
and here come the spelling police!
Kev
The Black Cat wrote:
> U2WildHoney wrote:
>
> >~~~~~ I have a suggestion,, take it to a private email. I don't know about
> >anyone else but you both are bugging the shit out of me.
No the word I would use is boring the fucking shit out of me!!! If you've got
some out of control argument take it somewhere else where the only two people
who are remotely interested are the ones who are arguing!!! The rest of us
couldn't give a monkeys fuck!!! (Y A W N ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !)
>
>
> Sorry, but when someone starts with the personal attacks and twisting of my
> words, I will defend myself... Im a counter puncher, and when they stop, so
> will I.
>
> AnCat
>
>
>
Kev
SkidMerc wrote:
> >
> > Time will tell if its loved by the press and fans????,so you wait for the reaction by
> > other people and the critics until you say whether you like it or not?!?!?!.
>
> No, i think ive made it perfectly clear that i think its "good", i said
> that sereral times.
>
> Im just saying that we wont find out what outside opinion is for a few
> weeks/months yet. It was a simple statement, dont go looking for
> something that isnt there.
The Black Cat
>When someone posts, they do not preface it with a manifesto.
>After you push the "send" key, it is off to subjectiveland.
>Are you with me still? <g>
Ummm.... no, but that didnt stop you before, so go ahead. <g>
>Action speaks louder than words to quote "Difford&Tillbrook"
Ahh, a fan of the funny pages, hehe ... just kidding, I wont inject my usual
obligatory slam of country "music" in here (I assume they are either a band of
that genre, or talkshow hosts on The Nashville Network), so continue.
>and I
>still feel that this thread was and is one person's opinion stated in a way
>that is inflammatory and condescending.
And I still say that you are wrong. But at least you are talking politely now,
so I will respond in kind.
>I'm sorry that you dislike the album (or part of it) and for the sarcastic
>tones from me.
That's fine, thank you.
>As far as Aim goes and advice, what you have witnessed is two old dogs
>sniffing each others asses for an hour or two, nothing to see here, move
>along. <g>
Ummm.... Im not EVEN gonna touch that one, sorry.
>Have a good one Black Cat!
U 2 :)
The Black Cat
>> the grammar polic now rests its case.
>>
>> mars :-)
>>
>
>and here come the spelling police!
>
LOL!!!!
At any rate, semantics aside, what I wrote was obviously meant as an "opinion",
not "fact". Hopefully this will put an end to the argument about "the word".
Steve RM1978
>depressing Country music or Soft Rock ballad ... if I had a gun, Id probably
>put a friggin BULLET in my head (or at least wedge two of them in my ears!)
Would you like to borrow mine?
>Lots of people do like music like this... then again, lots of those same people
>are really depressing to be around.
>
You sound like a real FUN guy too.
The Black Cat
>Would you like to borrow mine?
Nahh, by all means, sounds like you can make good use em on yourself, mate. ;)
>You sound like a real FUN guy too.
And you sound like a real expert on the subject.
joey
group Squeeze.
Have fun.
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001015155318...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
joey
Kev <"kev"@i know that this is not goodbye.ok> wrote in message
news:nQnG5.2043$TS.1...@news3.cableinet.net...
joey
Plonk.
The Black Cat <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> wrote in message
news:20001015174601...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
> Steve wrote:
>
> >Would you like to borrow mine?
>
> Nahh, by all means, sounds like you can make good use em on yourself,
mate. ;)
>
> >You sound like a real FUN guy too.
>
> And you sound like a real expert on the subject.
>
The Black Cat
>Yeah, D&T are some good 'ol boys from England, the songwriters from the
>group Squeeze.
That's nice ... I dont listen to them myself, so forgive my lack of knowledge
on the subject.
Ugh.
Plonk.
blah
There is no such thing as an objective review unless the person has no
emotions. Some things can be objectively reviewed, music can not.
Chris Coovert
"The Black Cat" >
> 1. BEAUTIFUL DAY
> This is a wonderful song, uplifting and ethereal, with some truly
amazing
> backing vocals in the chorus, and brilliant guitar work. A great choice
for a
> first single.
>
> 2. ELEVATION
> Another excellent song!! This is more like their older, balls-out
rock,
> and it gave me hope that maybe they were gonna "Achtung" me again.
>
> 3. WILD HONEY
> A beautiful song, upbeat and wistful at the same time, very catchy
riff.
>
>
> By this time, I was getting VERY hopeful... and then, the band dropped the
ball
> and fumbled the game ... my worst fears were realized, in a MAJOR way ...
yes
> folks, after that GREAT triple-shot of songs, we descend into what I call
"Bono
> Manilow's Old Time Funeral Dirge Hour". The next FIVE songs are
depressing,
> pretentious, and dull:
You are entitled to your opinion, and I actually agree that Grace and Peace
are a little slow, but I think they will grow on me because of the
incredibly strong messages and lyrics but read on..
>
> 4. STUCK IN A MOMENT
This is a gospel song, pure and simple. I happen to like it. I suppose if
you are not into gospel it might be boring.
> 5. WALK ON
How you can call this song depressing, I can't understand. WAlk on and kite
are the two songs on this album that most make me think of WOWY and One in
terms of a beautiful timeless quality. This is an incredibly powerful song
with a great, hopeful lyrics about the human condition.
> 6. PEACE ON EARTH
> 7. WHEN I LOOK AT THE WORLD
I love this song, can't really explain why. I think it's the cool use of the
distorted guitar with the piano
> 8. GRACE (this last one being the worst of the lot)
>
> Sorry, fans, but in my opinion, these songs represent U2 at their worst.
that would be Miami actually
Anyway, just my take. This is an indredibly spiritual, heavy album.
Ultimately, it's where they are right now. If you don't like the songs,
that's your perrogative. Just realize that a lot of don't agree.
Chris
Now,
> I realize that many of you probably love these songs and this style
(yknow,
> Bono moaning along with a piano in a sad voice, or something along those
> lines), and you are probably the same ones that wont agree with me that
songs
> like "Wake Up Dead Man" and the horrid "If God Will Send His Angels" are
> practically unlistenable, to an extent that they nearly sank "Pop". I
dont
> have a problem with that, each to his own... I just happen to like music
that
> makes me feel GOOD. Even the slower songs on JT were uplifting. Sitting
> through this group of songs was liked being forced to listen to a church
> sermon, and I had the same urge that I get when I have to hear an
especially
> depressing Country music or Soft Rock ballad ... if I had a gun, Id
probably
> put a friggin BULLET in my head (or at least wedge two of them in my
ears!)
> Lots of people do like music like this... then again, lots of those same
people
> are really depressing to be around.
>
> Well, after an endurance test like that, a song like:
>
> 9. IN A LITTLE WHILE
>
> seemed fairly decent, although as far as U2 songs go, it wont be entering
the
> pantheon of their classics. Still, it was a fair improvement over the 5
songs
> worth of dreck that came before it.
>
> 10. NEW YORK
> A pretty good song with a cool beat and sound... in other words, a
welcome
> relief.
>
> 11. KITE
> This is a very good song, possibly even a GREAT song... It sounds
like
> one of those songs that will continue to improve with repeat listenings,
and I
> will be playing it more.
>
>
> So, as you can see, what started out as a great review turned into a
pretty
> negative one. Ive been reading the postings here, where some people have
been
> raving about this album, even saying its the best theyve ever done (?!)...
in
> my opinion, the pre-release and pre-tour buzz is going to these people's
heads
> faster than the fumes at a Grateful Dead concert ... either that, or they
are
> just so blindly devoted to the band that they have lost the ability to be
> objective about them.
>
> At any rate, I must sadly throw my lot in with those who say that the
album is
> a major disappointment, but one that nonetheless DOES have 4-5 songs that
are
> truly wonderful.
>
> Now, with that all said, I would like to state a few things about what Ive
seen
> on this group lately:
> 2) Sorry guys, but this album isnt going to be the hit that you are
hoping
> for... its going to do about as well as Pop, although I think a couple of
the
> songs do have the potential to be fairly successful singles. The album
may go
> to #1 for a very short time, but it will fall drastically. By the end of
the
> year, it will probably drop from the charts completely.
>
> 3) Dont count on that Rolling Stone cover... havent you noticed the kinds
of
> people that make the cover of that rag now?? Britney Spears, Eminem, and
the
> latest Rapper of the Month. The entire music industry is geared to the
tastes
> of hormonal, skateboard-riding, bleached-blond teenage half-wits, and Im
afraid
> that the days of U2 automatically rating the cover are probably over,
although
> they might be given one out of respect. We shall see.
>
>
> OK, that's all for now. If you love the album, Im very happy for you, but
I
> just thought it should be known that not all U2 fans are happy with it. I
> certainly respect your right to adore it, but please show the same respect
for
> those who dont.
>
>
> the former "AnCatDub"
Zuppa
I respect your opinion, but I think you've just listened to the 30 secondes
clip, am I right ?
If this is the case, I think you cannot be REALLY objective.
I listened to the whole songs, and my thinking on some songs changed.
For example, GRACE, I thought this song would be great, but now, I think
they've showed us the best 30 sec of the song. And the 30 sec of STUCK IN A
MOMENT afraid me the first time, but now I think it's a great song.
François
ar...@angelic.com
"The Black Cat" <ancatd...@aol.comEDGE> a écrit dans le message news:
20001014172431...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
> It took U2 to make me try out a new trend (Napster) when Im not even into
> collecting MP3s, but after hearing the amazing news that their album was
> available on there, weeks before its official release, I couldnt resist.
I
> downloaded the necessary program, and after a few hours of confusion about
how
> to use it, I started the long process of downloading a free preview of the
> long-awaited new release.
>
> A little history: Ive been a loyal fan of the band since I first heard
"New
> Years Day" back in 1983, and went immediately to the record store and
bought
> "War". After that (beginning with UF), Ive bought their newest releases
the
> same day they were released. "The Joshua Tree" is, in my opinion, their
> alltime masterpiece (and possibly the greatest album of all time), but I
was
> blown away by the new direction they took with "Achtung Baby" and the
> incredible "ZooTV" shows (possibly the greatest live show of all time).
> "Zooropa" was a letdown (although the title track is still one of my
favorite
> songs by them, in addition to being one of their most underrated), and
"Pop"
> was also a letdown (although it had some brilliant songs on it, especially
"Do
> You Feel Loved" and "Gone"). So Ive been looking forward to this new
album,
> although very apprehensively. I realize (sadly) that their days of
intense
> rock are over, and that is indeed a shame. But Ive always hope they would
pull
> another "Achtung" on me, and blow my mind once again.
>
> Well, Ive finished listening to it, and Im ready to review it, so here
goes...
>
>
> 1. BEAUTIFUL DAY
> This is a wonderful song, uplifting and ethereal, with some truly
amazing
> backing vocals in the chorus, and brilliant guitar work. A great choice
for a
> first single.
>
> 2. ELEVATION
> Another excellent song!! This is more like their older, balls-out
rock,
> and it gave me hope that maybe they were gonna "Achtung" me again.
>
> 3. WILD HONEY
> A beautiful song, upbeat and wistful at the same time, very catchy
riff.
>
>
> By this time, I was getting VERY hopeful... and then, the band dropped the
ball
> and fumbled the game ... my worst fears were realized, in a MAJOR way ...
yes
> folks, after that GREAT triple-shot of songs, we descend into what I call
"Bono
> Manilow's Old Time Funeral Dirge Hour". The next FIVE songs are
depressing,
> pretentious, and dull:
>
> 4. STUCK IN A MOMENT
> 5. WALK ON
> 6. PEACE ON EARTH
> 7. WHEN I LOOK AT THE WORLD
> 8. GRACE (this last one being the worst of the lot)
>
> Sorry, fans, but in my opinion, these songs represent U2 at their worst.
Lithium Boy
>Hi Black Cat,
>
>I respect your opinion, but I think you've just listened to the 30 secondes
>clip, am I right ?
>
>If this is the case, I think you cannot be REALLY objective.
>
>I listened to the whole songs, and my thinking on some songs changed.
>
>For example, GRACE, I thought this song would be great, but now, I think
>they've showed us the best 30 sec of the song. And the 30 sec of STUCK IN A
>MOMENT afraid me the first time, but now I think it's a great song.
>
>François
>ar...@angelic.com
Can we please, please, please, PLEASE give it up with this 'objective
review' shit. As others have pointed out in the hope of cutting this
now frankly pointless and soul destroying thread dead, it is simply
not possible to objectively review music. No ifs, no buts. It's just
not. The enjoyment of music is an inherently subjective experience.
End of story.
Lithium Boy
--
Anyone wanna see my blog?!: http://www.lithiumjoe.com/lithiumboy
Lithium Joe: Rock n' roll, reggae, pop, punk, tunes!!! http://www.lithiumjoe.com
SkidMerc
chea...@my-deja.com
In article <m1bmusk48o7e10v52...@4ax.com>,
Lithium Boy <lithiumdave@*too*hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:18:41 GMT, "Zuppa" <n...@way.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi Black Cat,
> >
> >I respect your opinion, but I think you've just listened to the 30
secondes
> >clip, am I right ?
> >
> >If this is the case, I think you cannot be REALLY objective.
> >
> >I listened to the whole songs, and my thinking on some songs changed.
> >
> >For example, GRACE, I thought this song would be great, but now, I
think
> >they've showed us the best 30 sec of the song. And the 30 sec of
STUCK IN A
> >MOMENT afraid me the first time, but now I think it's a great song.
> >
> >François
> >ar...@angelic.com
>
> Can we please, please, please, PLEASE give it up with this 'objective
> review' shit. As others have pointed out in the hope of cutting this
> now frankly pointless and soul destroying thread dead, it is simply
> not possible to objectively review music. No ifs, no buts. It's just
> not. The enjoyment of music is an inherently subjective experience.
> End of story.
>
> Lithium Boy
>
> --
> Anyone wanna see my blog?!: http://www.lithiumjoe.com/lithiumboy
> Lithium Joe: Rock n' roll, reggae, pop, punk, tunes!!!
http://www.lithiumjoe.com
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
--== k e r c a d ó ==--
ancatd...@aol.comEDGE (The Black Cat) wrote:
People, I gotta agree with the Cat. Not regarding ATYCLB; actually I
think (so far) that it's a great record, and some of the songs he
didn't like I do like.
The thing is that he is completely entitled to his opinion, and he just
wanted to share his point of view with us. Isn't that what DISCUSSION
GROUPS are about? Instead of bashing him, a more intelligent approach
would be commenting about what YOU like abouta song, for
example, "Stuck In A Moment"...and not merely saying that it is just
extremely cool or beautiful, but you know, maybe a bit deeper...For
example, about that particular song, what really moved me are the
lyrics...made me think about my wife and some recent troubles we went
through. So you see, Black Cat may still not like the song, but maybe
he would listen more intently (sp?) to the lyrics and see what I mean,
etc...
Seems to me the guy's sincere about his opinion. He's obviously not
being a troll or whatever. Let's be more respectful of that sincerity,
not only for Cat but for everyone else.
Hasta luego, and excuse the long message...
--== k e r c a d ó ==--
- http://www.mp3.com/kingdom -
chea...@my-deja.com
Objective, and subjective are two words with different meanings.
That was the problem.
Semantics really.
In article <8sfh44$rtj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Steve RM1978
>Steve wrote:
>
>>Would you like to borrow mine?
>
>Nahh, by all means, sounds like you can make good use em on yourself, mate. ;)
>
>>You sound like a real FUN guy too.
>
>And you sound like a real expert on the subject.
>
>AnCat
>
>
>
>
Are you still here? Thought you were goin' 2 days ago.
Andrea
<< Can we please, please, please, PLEASE give it up with this 'objective
review' shit. As others have pointed out in the hope of cutting this now
frankly pointless and soul destroying thread dead, it is simply not possible
to objectively review music. No ifs, no buts. It's just not. The enjoyment
of music is an inherently subjective experience. End of story. >>
<Andrea standing, cheering and clapping in approval>
Of course the enjoyment of music is an inherently subjective experience...
Music is ART, like sculpture, literature, painting... Each of those means
something different to each and every one of us. Not the same piece of art
will mean the same to me or to you or to anyone else. It can also happen
that more than one person feels the same, but anyway, I think there will be
some slight differences among them. I LOVE to go to museums and stare at
sculptures and paintings and grasp the possible "meaning" they convey, and
surprisingly enough, those same sculptures or paintings sometimes make me
feel something inside, something I can also feel when listening to some
piece of music...
You can review, for instance, a film, since there are objective features
that can be analysed, such as special effects, photography, direction,
whether or not the plot is credible, the actors'/actresses' acting, etc....
Music is different. It makes you FEEL things. I'm not ruling out that films,
if they are good dramas, for example, can't make you cry. Actually I have
cried with some excellent films. But the review can be objective bearing in
mind what I wrote in the previous paragraph. A review about music will
ALWAYS be SUBjective. It's impossible to get rid of the emotions or feelings
that each song, or concert, or opera, or cantata, or whatever it may be,
make us feel.
--
Andrea, The Proud U2 Fan
NO FB DL+++ S+++ (no merch) N+ C+ L+++ O++ CV++ UF7/JT3/PO6
"If I am close to the music,
and you are close to the music,
we are close to each other." - Bono
Gabriel Rios
Simple as that.
I just wish I had the album already so I could at least make my own
opinion.
U2......not infallable, but always loveable. :)
Regardless.
That's what I think is the key.
Gabriel
chea...@my-deja.com wrote:
> You are correct.
> Objective, and subjective are two words with different meanings.
> That was the problem.
> Semantics really.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> In article <8sfh44$rtj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> --== k e r c a d ==-- <jker...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <20001014172431...@ng-ba1.aol.com>,
>> ancatd...@aol.comEDGE (The Black Cat) wrote:
>> <snip all his comments>
>>
>> People, I gotta agree with the Cat. Not regarding ATYCLB; actually I
>> think (so far) that it's a great record, and some of the songs he
>> didn't like I do like.
>>
>> The thing is that he is completely entitled to his opinion, and he
>
> just
>
>> wanted to share his point of view with us. Isn't that what DISCUSSION
>> GROUPS are about? Instead of bashing him, a more intelligent approach
>> would be commenting about what YOU like abouta song, for
>> example, "Stuck In A Moment"...and not merely saying that it is just
>> extremely cool or beautiful, but you know, maybe a bit deeper...For
>> example, about that particular song, what really moved me are the
>> lyrics...made me think about my wife and some recent troubles we went
>> through. So you see, Black Cat may still not like the song, but maybe
>> he would listen more intently (sp?) to the lyrics and see what I mean,
>> etc...
>>
>> Seems to me the guy's sincere about his opinion. He's obviously not
>> being a troll or whatever. Let's be more respectful of that sincerity,
>> not only for Cat but for everyone else.
>>
>> Hasta luego, and excuse the long message...
>>
>> --== k e r c a d ==--
>> - http://www.mp3.com/kingdom -
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Before you buy.
>>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
To lazy to run to a standstill....
(remove _'s to email)
smr
says...
>
>
> The Black Cat wrote:
> > Sorry, fans, but in my opinion, these songs represent U2 at their worst. Now,
> > I realize that many of you probably love these songs and this style (yknow,
> > Bono moaning along with a piano in a sad voice, or something along those
> > lines), and you are probably the same ones that wont agree with me that songs
> > like "Wake Up Dead Man"
>
Y'know, I couldn't fucking stand Wake Up Dead Man when I got POP. And it
stayed that way for a long time. Then, about a month or two ago, I
started collecting POPMART bootlegs. And I've got a few now that have
WUDM on them. And, finally, the song has grown on me. Maybe it's just
the peacefulness of the live version versus the pseudo-Cream of the
studio one, maybe it's the fact that I finally really listened to the
lyrics, but after three years, one of the songs I had considered U2's
worst is now on my "yeah, I'll listen to it" list.
smr
Dan-E
pissed all over "POP" are all of a sudden such ardent defenders
of their latest album, of which most have only heard bits and
pieces of. Says something to the capricious nature of music
fans huh? Oh well.
Dan-E
Zooropa321
That's because many of us have heard the new album in its entirety, and it is
much better than Pop. Pop is a good record, ATYCLB is a great record. What,
you would rather U2 fans be blindly loyal to the band no matter what they do?
Dan-E
zooro...@cs.com (Zooropa321) wrote:
>
>That's because many of us have heard the new album in its
entirety, and it is
>much better than Pop. Pop is a good record, ATYCLB is a great
record. What,
>you would rather U2 fans be blindly loyal to the band no
matter what they do?
Ok, let me rephrase that.
I just finding amusing that the same newsgroup who so freely
pissed all over U2 during their "POP" era are all of a sudden
their most vocal defenders even before the release their latest
album, of which most have only heard bits and pieces of.
Better? That's what I meant.
Zooropa321
>
>I just finding amusing that the same newsgroup who so freely
>pissed all over U2 during their "POP" era are all of a sudden
>their most vocal defenders even before the release their latest
>album, of which most have only heard bits and pieces of.
>
>Better? That's what I meant.
You may want to keep in mind that the people who are complimenting U2's latest
efforts may not be the same people who ripped them back when Pop came out. I
certainly wasn't here, and likely many others were not. And it seems to me
that now the people raving about the new album HAVE heard the whole thing, not
just the clips (it has been on the net since last Wed.). Still, if you are
saying that the music listening audience of this world as a whole is a fickle
one, well, you will hear no argument from me. How else could a band as
talented as U2 be outsold by teenage crap like the Backstreet Boys and Britney
Spears.
SkidMerc
Just an opinion though. I think the songs on Pop are deeper, and
stronger than songs on ATYCLB.
Kev
this time last week. It was Pop!!
mrmojo
get all shitty! Achtung Baby is one of my all time favs. I almost crapped the the
1st time i heard it 'cause they didn't sound like they do on this album. I love it!
little, mellow, different!
-=mac daddy
mars tokyo wrote:
> Try Out wrote:
>
> > On 14 Oct 2000 21:24:31 GMT, ancatd...@aol.comEDGE (The Black Cat)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >So, as you can see, what started out as a great review turned into a pretty
> > >negative one. Ive been reading the postings here, where some people have been
> > >raving about this album, even saying its the best theyve ever done (?!)... in
> > >my opinion, the pre-release and pre-tour buzz is going to these people's heads
> > >faster than the fumes at a Grateful Dead concert ... either that, or they are
> > >just so blindly devoted to the band that they have lost the ability to be
> > >objective about them.
> >
> > I think it's wrong of you to say that people aren't being objective if
> > they really like this album.
>
> Define the word OBJECTIVE .....cos in my book-- there's no such thing as an
> "objective review" by it's very nature, a review is an opinion--and opinions are
> SUBJECTIVE --- period. It's not that one thing is good (being objective) and the
> other is bad (being subjective)---it's an opinion. Articles that quote fact may be
> objectively written. But reviews of music, art, film etc.... are all opinion and
> so are subjective.
>
> the grammar polic now rests its case.
>
> mars :-)
>
> --
> the mars tokyo visual diary
> POP goes U2
> http://marstokyo.com/u2devo.html