Why do Tool make perfect albums less-than-perfect...
geekrock
Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
albums?
Or are they the highlights for some of you?
-b.
PS Can't post on topic indeed. Hrumph!
Order in Chaos
> albums?
>
> Or are they the highlights for some of you?
Highlight for me. :)
Dave Cain
"geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
> ...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>
> Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
> albums?
No, but one of few. I think those songs kick ass. I don't think any album
is "perfect." Perfection is a myth. An extreme that is only thought to
exist because it seems logical. We love extremes so much: perfection,
omnipotence, sinlessness. It's all bullshit. As stupid as wanting to live
in a solid gold house.
My point is, would taking Ticks and Leeches out of Lateralus make it
'perfect' for you? If so, then program a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11,12,13
sequence into your CD player. Tool make music because they have something to
say. The content of T&L is one of those things. To say it spoils it
(whether that is your initial impression or not) is just precluding the
possibility of you ever liking Lateralus completely. That isn't necessary
to do. Try to get rid of the preconception that screaming ruins an album
and you might even think it IS perfect. Try it.
Dave Cain
female
<disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote:
I totally agree with you. I skip over Ticks & Leeches usually. I think it
comes off sounding insincere, like its the obligatory Tool anger song. Its
not a bad tune, it just doesn't jibe with everything else on the album.
mo.
-Paula
--
_________________________________________________________________
Feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.
________________________________________________________ -mjk ___
chir...@vomicae.net | http://vomicae.net
Thomas Leahy
WRONG!!! failure's fantastic planet is perfect! :) so isnt massive attack's
mezzanine and radiohead's ok computer is almost perfect except for
electioneering :/
Thomas Leahy
fits on aenima.
geekrock
>
>"geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
>> ...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>>
>> Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of
beautiful
>> albums?
>
>No, but one of few. I think those songs kick ass.
They do kick ass. You have no denial from me there. But there are a
million bands who also kick ass. Kicking ass bores me. Anyone can write a
kick ass song. The reason I love Tool is that their other songs don't HAVE
to kick ass in order to be beautiful or moving.
>I don't think any album
>is "perfect." Perfection is a myth. An extreme that is only thought to
>exist because it seems logical. We love extremes so much: perfection,
>omnipotence, sinlessness. It's all bullshit. As stupid as wanting to live
>in a solid gold house.
Then we disagree. I think that art CAN be perfect in a way that reality
can't - the purity of intent, the whoosh as something which was created with
full realisation hits you - BLAM! - in the face. I think that any piece of
art which conveys the original idea of the artist FULLY, is perfect. Not
bullshit at all from my point of view.
>My point is, would taking Ticks and Leeches out of Lateralus make it
>'perfect' for you? If so, then program a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11,12,13
>sequence into your CD player. Tool make music because they have something
to
>say.
How do you know that?
> The content of T&L is one of those things.
Unless it was written as a parody.
> To say it spoils it
Never said that.
>(whether that is your initial impression or not) is just precluding the
>possibility of you ever liking Lateralus completely.
No it isn't.
> That isn't necessary
>to do.
How lovely.
>Try to get rid of the preconception that screaming ruins an album
>and you might even think it IS perfect. Try it.
Look.
Your advice is very sweet, but I don't think that screaming ruins an album
and I never said that I did. In fact, my favorite album right now is The
Shape of Punk to Come by Refused. But pointless screaming, anger for the
sake of anger, bores the life out of me, WHATEVER form and whatever band it
comes from.
HwaP and T+L seem arbitrarily angry to me - it sounds like a band doing what
is expected of them. That's what I have issues with. Programming the CD
player won't change the album they wrote.
-b.
>Dave Cain
>
>
>
Styx
<disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote:
>...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>
>Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
>albums?
I've a feeling both "Hooker With A Penis" and "Ticks And Leeches" were both
done tongue-in-cheek -- good examples of what Tool profess to be their sense
of humor that some people don't "get."
I don't really think either song is very funny, but in the context of the two
albums, I can see what they're trying to achieve.
- <styx> * <st...@rebel-alliance.net>
- <http://www.rebel-alliance.net/>
- <meredith baxter-birney's distended anus gallery>
geekrock
Styx wrote in message <9esngtc4rf4o3kgo3...@4ax.com>...
>On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:57:12 +0100, "geekrock"
><disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>>
>>Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
>>albums?
>
>I've a feeling both "Hooker With A Penis" and "Ticks And Leeches" were both
>done tongue-in-cheek -- good examples of what Tool profess to be their
sense
>of humor that some people don't "get."
>
>I don't really think either song is very funny, but in the context of the
two
>albums, I can see what they're trying to achieve.
I know what you mean - I definitely can't believe that they'd do them
straight. But, it's like: I love Aenima. Without wishing to get too gushy
about it, that album is more than just a bunch of songs to me, it's like a
book I've grown with and grown because of.
I can't help but feel a little cheated when those songs come on - like I'd
just seen Dali's Christ of St. John on the Cross, been staggered by its
enormity, felt like I'd connected with the artist - then suddenly noticed a
little smiley heavy metal skull in the boat, in black marker which he put in
as a "just kidding" rider. Aaah well.
I'm actually only replying 'cuz I went to yer site the other day and it made
me laugh for hours, and email the address to 20 of my friends in a giggling
frenzy. Nice one man.
-b.
Shanan Capes
> Dave Cain wrote in message <9egnjn$pt0$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>...
> >
> >"geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
> >news:tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
> >> ...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
> >>
> >> Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of
> beautiful
> >> albums?
> >
> >No, but one of few. I think those songs kick ass.
>
> They do kick ass. You have no denial from me there. But there are a
> million bands who also kick ass. Kicking ass bores me. Anyone can write
a
> kick ass song. The reason I love Tool is that their other songs don't
HAVE
> to kick ass in order to be beautiful or moving.
>
them. They aren't just there to "kick ass" (even though they do)... The
anger and bitterness of Ticks & Leeches is intense. The rest of the songs
on Lateralus are more moody, and even The Grudge is angry in a gentle kind
of way. But Ticks & Leeches puts the anger out there directly, and
ferociously, which is exactly what I believe MJK was going for with those
lyrics. He needed to release that anger, and he has. Just tune into the
emotion of that first blood-curdling scream. If you think about what
inspired that song: the industry that they have to depend upon to give their
music to the world just about tore them apart. Schism displays the strength
of their relationship, but that doesn't mean there wasn't some resentment.
And how better to get past it then to vent, and vent hard! And in a
kick-ass kind of way! Which makes it all the more amusing for us :-)
> >I don't think any album
> >is "perfect." Perfection is a myth. An extreme that is only thought to
> >exist because it seems logical. We love extremes so much: perfection,
> >omnipotence, sinlessness. It's all bullshit. As stupid as wanting to
live
> >in a solid gold house.
>
>
> Then we disagree. I think that art CAN be perfect in a way that reality
> can't - the purity of intent, the whoosh as something which was created
with
> full realisation hits you - BLAM! - in the face. I think that any piece
of
> art which conveys the original idea of the artist FULLY, is perfect. Not
> bullshit at all from my point of view.
>
Perfection is in they eye of the beholder. I think Lateralus is perfect the
way it is. I don't think anything should be added or omitted. But I've
seen many, many opinions in this group to the contrary. Doesn't make it any
less perfect in my mind...
Later!
Shanan
-TFCM
Dave Cain
"> >
> >No, but one of few. I think those songs kick ass.
>
> They do kick ass. You have no denial from me there. But there are a
> million bands who also kick ass. Kicking ass bores me. Anyone can write
a
> kick ass song. The reason I love Tool is that their other songs don't
HAVE
> to kick ass in order to be beautiful or moving.
I think we have different definitions of 'kick ass.' I just meant I like the
songs, that's all. I think Stairway to Heaven kicks ass; I was not talking
in the yelling and power chords sense of the term. Break Stuff by Limp
Bizkit 'kicks ass' in that sense, and that DOES bore me.
>
> >I don't think any album
> >is "perfect." Perfection is a myth. An extreme that is only thought to
> >exist because it seems logical. We love extremes so much: perfection,
> >omnipotence, sinlessness. It's all bullshit. As stupid as wanting to
live
> >in a solid gold house.
>
>
> Then we disagree. I think that art CAN be perfect in a way that reality
> can't - the purity of intent, the whoosh as something which was created
with
> full realisation hits you - BLAM! - in the face. I think that any piece
of
> art which conveys the original idea of the artist FULLY, is perfect. Not
> bullshit at all from my point of view.
Again, we have different definitions. I didn't mean to synonymize purity of
intent with perfection. I just meant 'perfection' is hypothetical; it
doesn't really exist IMHO. In something that is easily quantified (i.e. not
music) I suppose perfection is possible, such as bowling a 300, but with
respect to an art form I don't see the word 'perfect' as being meaningful.
>
> >My point is, would taking Ticks and Leeches out of Lateralus make it
> >'perfect' for you? If so, then program a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11,12,13
> >sequence into your CD player. Tool make music because they have something
> to
> >say.
>
> How do you know that?
That's what music is: communication. A transmission of ideas, words,
sounds. I wasn't referring to any sort of "statement", political or
otherwise.
>
> > The content of T&L is one of those things.
>
> Unless it was written as a parody.
I think a parody IS something to say, don't you?
>
> > To say it spoils it
>
> Never said that.
Quote:
"Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
albums?"
>
> >(whether that is your initial impression or not) is just precluding the
> >possibility of you ever liking Lateralus completely.
>
> No it isn't.
Well, I think if you've decided that "these songs spoil the ebb and flow of
beautiful
albums" than it is true. Maybe you haven't done that, but i can't seem to
find an interpretation of what you said that indicates so.
> >Try to get rid of the preconception that screaming ruins an album
> >and you might even think it IS perfect. Try it.
>
>
> Look.
>
> Your advice is very sweet, but I don't think that screaming ruins an album
> and I never said that I did. In fact, my favorite album right now is The
> Shape of Punk to Come by Refused. But pointless screaming, anger for the
> sake of anger, bores the life out of me, WHATEVER form and whatever band
it
> comes from.
I'm sorry you think Maynard's screaming is pointless. I really don't think
it is.
>
> HwaP and T+L seem arbitrarily angry to me - it sounds like a band doing
what
> is expected of them. That's what I have issues with.
I'm sorry you hold that bleak view of those songs. I don't think it's naive
to assume that these songs are more than just placations of commercial
appetites. I think Hooker with a Penis is fucking brilliant. Honestly. I
don't like it just because he yells "point your fucking finger up your ass."
In fact, if you listen to the words, it is denouncing claims of bands
'selling out' and 'giving the public what they want.' Ticks and Leeches to
me sounds like genuine anger (not manufactured) at people who hate bands for
NOT giving them "what they had in mind." Seriously, try and see it from
that viewpoint. You might like it.
>Programming the CD
> player won't change the album they wrote.
I was being facetious. Sorry, I'll stop doing that.
Dave Cain
Ellen
>...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>
>Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
>albums?
Here is the way I see it -- "Ticks and Leeches" was the last song that was
written and recorded, right? So Tool created Lateralus and then felt the
pressure (from the label, the fans, and even themselves) to show that they
still can be truly hard core. So sticking "Ticks and Leeches" in the middle of
the album could be Tool's way of saying "hope this is what you wanted...hope
this is what you had in mind, 'cause this is what you're getting!" Oh
wait...they *did* say that :)
But Tool did not simply create a POS and stick it on the album. Yes, "T&L"
mocks cliched metal, but then Tool adds some unique twists to make it
different. Ultimately, I don't think that Tool wanted to create a crap song, so
they integrated "T&L" into the theme of Lateralus (especially the part where
the outside appearances are mellow, yet there is a screaming subconscious voice
lurking in the shadows). So ultimately, I think that it was a good idea for
Tool to include "T&L" on Lateralus.
Ellen
"And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme
Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of
the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson
Cichli
>
hooker was ok. they did the whole "we're making angry song funny and fun to
play, just for the hell of it" it was original, and fit the varied moods
within aenima. but to me ticks and leeches just sounds like a re-hashed
version of it; like they tried to go in and write one fast, heavy, smart-ass
song. it does taint lateralus in my opinion, as in i skip over it almost
every time. but so do other songs on this album (the whole disposition,
reflection, triad thing).
:jason (tainted?)
Ryan
Chris Brightwell
i didn't care much for hooker at first, but it fits the flow of
Ænima for me.
ticks and leeches is one of my fav tracks off lateralus.
-chris
--
'Music is a moral law- it gives wings to the mind, A soul to the universe,
Flight to the imagination, A charm to sadness, A life to everything.'
- Plato
AMTCode: Regular T++ A++! L+ S B+* FMA P+ CC
geekrock <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
Ryan
:)
ryan
NOTICE THE SMILEY
geekrock
Dave Cain wrote in message <9egumh$t5m$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>...
>
<snip>
>
>Again, we have different definitions. I didn't mean to synonymize purity
of
>intent with perfection. I just meant 'perfection' is hypothetical; it
>doesn't really exist IMHO. In something that is easily quantified (i.e.
not
>music) I suppose perfection is possible, such as bowling a 300, but with
>respect to an art form I don't see the word 'perfect' as being meaningful.
We certainly do disagree - I think that it's only art (or to be less
specific - communication) where terms like "perfect" are of any use. In
fact, I'll take it further and say that Art is the struggle for perfection
in a world where everything is imperfect.
>> >My point is, would taking Ticks and Leeches out of Lateralus make it
>> >'perfect' for you? If so, then program a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11,12,13
>> >sequence into your CD player. Tool make music because they have
something
>> to
>> >say.
>>
>> How do you know that?
>
>That's what music is: communication. A transmission of ideas, words,
>sounds. I wasn't referring to any sort of "statement", political or
>otherwise.
Actually, this was one part of a four-part rebuttal - you were telling me
that I should get rid of my preconceptions - I was just trying to let you
know that I wasn't the only one with preconceptions. I wasn't literally
arguing the point.
<snip>
>> > To say it spoils it
>>
>> Never said that.
>
>Quote:
>
>"Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
>albums?"
Doesn't spoil the album itself - I've already said that I love the album
elsewhere in this thread - just the atmosphere of it. No average song would
stop me from loving Aenima.
>> >(whether that is your initial impression or not) is just precluding the
>> >possibility of you ever liking Lateralus completely.
>>
>> No it isn't.
>
>Well, I think if you've decided that "these songs spoil the ebb and flow of
>beautiful albums" than it is true. Maybe you haven't done that, but i
can't seem to
>find an interpretation of what you said that indicates so.
What?
>I'm sorry you think Maynard's screaming is pointless. I really don't think
>it is.
Well, that's why I posted. I wanted to see who agreed with me.
>> HwaP and T+L seem arbitrarily angry to me - it sounds like a band doing
>what
>> is expected of them. That's what I have issues with.
>
>I'm sorry you hold that bleak view of those songs. I don't think it's naive
>to assume that these songs are more than just placations of commercial
>appetites. I think Hooker with a Penis is fucking brilliant. Honestly.
I
>don't like it just because he yells "point your fucking finger up your
ass."
>In fact, if you listen to the words, it is denouncing claims of bands
>'selling out' and 'giving the public what they want.' Ticks and Leeches to
>me sounds like genuine anger (not manufactured) at people who hate bands
for
>NOT giving them "what they had in mind." Seriously, try and see it from
>that viewpoint. You might like it.
I'm an open minded dude. When my flatmate told me he was gay, I simply
shrugged and said "fancy a fuck?". When I heard that there was a lounge
version of Hooker with a Penis, I was the guy who said "hey, it might be
OK". I'm not someone who heard a heavy riff and thought "Limp Bizkit". I
just can't see the shades and texture of meaning in HwaP or T+L that I do
in, say, The Patient or Jimmy.
>>Programming the CD
>> player won't change the album they wrote.
>
>I was being facetious. Sorry, I'll stop doing that.
And I in turn will I appreciate it.
-b.
>Dave Cain
>
>
Dave Cain
> every time. but so do other songs on this album (the whole disposition,
> reflection, triad thing).
I think those tracks are amazing. But they took some getting used to. I
wouldn't expect everyone to like Disposition, or even Triad, but Reflection
is really amazing, IMO. I didn't think that immediately though. Go to the
park with a Discman, and listen to the disc while looking at clouds. Might
not work for everyone, but it opened doors for me. And not just with
Lateralus; I appreciate music in a different way now. Lateralus opened my
eyes to certain things. Amazing disc (the whole thing) IMHO.
Dave Cain
geekrock
>you just dont like it cause they wrote it for you
<snip something I didn't read>
FUCK YOU MAN!!!2!!!
>ryan
<snip something else I didn't read>
-b.
Dave Cain
"Ryan" <ern...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:3B0C0315...@flash.net...
> why must you frown on my house
>
Trust me man, over the years it will squish itself into an ugly mess. Also,
having gold walls makes the electrical system pretty dangerous. And people
will keep hacking bits off in the middle of the night. I hate that. Don't
try building a gold fence to stop them, it won't work.
Dave Cain
> >respect to an art form I don't see the word 'perfect' as being
meaningful.
>
>
> We certainly do disagree - I think that it's only art (or to be less
> specific - communication) where terms like "perfect" are of any use. In
> fact, I'll take it further and say that Art is the struggle for perfection
> in a world where everything is imperfect.
I'm sorry I don't understand why you'd say that. A stuggle for beauty in an
ugly word, perhaps. That's how I see it.
> >That's what music is: communication. A transmission of ideas, words,
> >sounds. I wasn't referring to any sort of "statement", political or
> >otherwise.
>
>
> Actually, this was one part of a four-part rebuttal - you were telling me
> that I should get rid of my preconceptions - I was just trying to let you
> know that I wasn't the only one with preconceptions. I wasn't literally
> arguing the point.
I know that. I discover more of my preconceptions every day.
>
> <snip>
>
> >> > To say it spoils it
> >>
> >> Never said that.
> >
> >Quote:
> >
> >"Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of
beautiful
> >albums?"
>
>
> Doesn't spoil the album itself - I've already said that I love the album
> elsewhere in this thread - just the atmosphere of it. No average song
would
> stop me from loving Aenima.
I understand what you mean. T&L does tend to stand out between Parabola and
Lateralus. The way I view it that it is just a part of the flow. The
atmosphere 'flows' to a place of anger, then resolves to the next track,
etc. Instead of viewing T&L as outside of my conception of the 'atmosphere,'
I change my conception of this atmosphere to include track eight. Then
voila! It fits.
> >I'm sorry you think Maynard's screaming is pointless. I really don't
think
> >it is.
>
> Well, that's why I posted. I wanted to see who agreed with me.
I just think Tool is beyond pointless screaming, so I looked for a point in
it.
> >> HwaP and T+L seem arbitrarily angry to me - it sounds like a band doing
> >what
> >> is expected of them. That's what I have issues with.
> >
> >I'm sorry you hold that bleak view of those songs. I don't think it's
naive
> >to assume that these songs are more than just placations of commercial
> >appetites. I think Hooker with a Penis is fucking brilliant. Honestly.
> I
> >don't like it just because he yells "point your fucking finger up your
> ass."
> >In fact, if you listen to the words, it is denouncing claims of bands
> >'selling out' and 'giving the public what they want.' Ticks and Leeches
to
> >me sounds like genuine anger (not manufactured) at people who hate bands
> for
> >NOT giving them "what they had in mind." Seriously, try and see it from
> >that viewpoint. You might like it.
>
>
> I'm an open minded dude. When my flatmate told me he was gay, I simply
> shrugged and said "fancy a fuck?". When I heard that there was a lounge
> version of Hooker with a Penis, I was the guy who said "hey, it might be
> OK". I'm not someone who heard a heavy riff and thought "Limp Bizkit". I
> just can't see the shades and texture of meaning in HwaP or T+L that I do
> in, say, The Patient or Jimmy.
Point taken. Perhaps not every song is as deep as the Patient or Jimmy, but
it doesn't mean HwaP and T&L are there 'just to kick ass.'
>
> >>Programming the CD
> >> player won't change the album they wrote.
> >
> >I was being facetious. Sorry, I'll stop doing that.
>
>
> And I in turn will I appreciate it.
Deal. :)
Dave Cain
Ryan
should i build like a diamond fence instead?
Ryan
just for you b
ultimatesn and your mother
>to
>play, just for the hell of it" it was original, and fit the varied moods
>within aenima.
I guess you have yet to notive that about 90 percent of Tool's songs are angry?
`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`"`'`
ultimatesn--THE POSTER WITH ALL THE STROKE AROUND HERE
MIKE PIAZZA OWNS NEW YORK!!
WCW Monday Nitro: Where the Big Boys Played
UA 4 LYFE
R.U.
T.O.N.
elvisonit
don't get the humor in their music, then you have totally missed the boat.
swing and a miss!
--
Elvis is on it
"geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote
Mike Smith
news:tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
>
> Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
> albums?
What makes you think "ebb and flow of beautiful albums" was Tool's intent?
The contrast is an integral part of the whole, IMO.
--
Mike Smith
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh. --R. A. Heinlein
stalking butler
"geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> a écrit dans le message
news: tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
> ...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>
> Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
> albums?
>
> Or are they the highlights for some of you?
>
>
fab
your music is not so soft, why are you upset with Tick&Leeches or Hooker?
i am not so overwhelmed by Tick&Leeches (but hooker is really awesome for
me) but it is not so bad in the context of Lateralus
it's weird from you though (not that i know you so deep, ok)
:)
--
fab
[ tooli...@libero.it ]
Ś Consciousness expansion through the use of psychedelics
IS and DOES sound like a heap of bullshit because mind
expansion and consciousness expansion are two completely
different things. Just because your mind is all the sudden
open to new ideas and different ways of thinking and living
does not mean that all the sudden you have a grand
understanding of love, compassion, death, and evolution Ś
mike_ AMT
geekrock <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
Cichli
>angry?
let's see now......
opiate: angry all around, except sweat and the gaping lotus experience.
undertow: not angry.....just observant. angry tracks; bottom. crawl
away (tongue in cheek anger though). flood could be interpreted as
angry.... everything else has much more depth than the obvious aggression on
the surface.
aenima: slightly angry. obvious tracks; eulogy, hwap, aenema. even
those songs have strong mixtures of other emotions mixed in.
lateralus: almost no anger. closest it comes to being angry is ticks &
leeches, which seems to be almost a parody.
how the hell one angry ep and a few other angry songs counts as 90% of their
output, i don't understand. maybe yr mixing aggression, frustration,
disillusion, and humour up with anger. maybe you aren't seeing what's under
the surface. i'm not going to make assumptions as to why you think 90% of
tool's output is anger (which would mean every song except the segues and
hidden tracks would be angry songs.) please explain if possible.
so no, i havent noticed how 90% of their songs are angry.
:jason (oy.....)
Jean Ra
>albums?
Yes. [gets together a mob to tar and feather you]
geekrock
ryannosaurus wrote in message <3b0e12b0...@news.teleport.com>...
>Spinning wildly out of control in alt.music.tool, on Wed, 23 May 2001
>20:00:19 +0100, "geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Ryan wrote in message <3B0C040D...@flash.net>...
>>>you just dont like it cause they wrote it for you
>>
>>
>><snip something I didn't read>
>>
>>FUCK YOU MAN!!!2!!!
>
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>
>
>props to little toad, who I unabashedly stole this from
Little Toad is killer - do you know that him and Natasha were the only
people in my killfile when I was reading AUK a few months back? They have
a, frankly, ASTONISHING capacity for nonsense. Absolutely incredible. I
was impressed despite myself.
-b.
>--
>ryannosaurus
>AMTCode: Regular T+ A++ L+ Sx B+ FMD P+* CP
0o0o0o
> wrote:
>
> >...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
> >
beautiful
> >albums?
> >
JUST PLAY THEM IN THE DARK WITH HEADPHONES ON!!! YOU'LL COME AROUND!!!!!!@!#
-mike
Etherman
"geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
> ...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>
> Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
> albums?
>
> Or are they the highlights for some of you?
I too found that HWAP didn't seem to go much with the rest
of the album, but I like it anyway.
--
Etherman
AA # pi
EAC Director of Ritual Satanic Abuse Operations
ultimatesn and your mother
well, I was referring to the way the music sounds, not the lyrics. (although I
probably could pick at least one 'angry' lyric from almost every song). All
semantics, I suppose. So, 90 % of Tools songs sound angry.
Cichli
>I
>probably could pick at least one 'angry' lyric from almost every song). All
>semantics, I suppose. So, 90 % of Tools songs sound angry.
i see where the distance is now. you're stating yr opinion about the music.
i was looking at it from the point of view of fact (lyric, music, delivery)
whereas you hear the songs and think they sound angry, i was stating that
most of them aren't actually about anger.
opinion vs. fact.....they're never the same. :) not that an opinion is any
less valid....
:jason (semantra?)
geekrock
ryannosaurus wrote in message <3b0c669b...@news.teleport.com>...
>Spinning wildly out of control in alt.music.tool, on Wed, 23 May 2001
>wrote:
It's humiliatingly true. Reduced to a killfile by a toad.
>>They have
>>a, frankly, ASTONISHING capacity for nonsense. Absolutely incredible. I
>>was impressed despite myself.
>
>heh, you should sub some of Natasha's other groups if you want to see
>real nonsense... alt.fan.natasha for starters, as most of the mischief
>ends up crossposted there eventually
>
>pssssst, I'm also sure you've got little toad's gender a bit
>confuseled :)
Aaah, I'm wont to do that. It's because of the nic, I always think that
Toads are male. I call my girlfriend little frog if I want to compare her
to an amphibian. Y'know.
Justin
it , i didnt read it all 1st. - justin
Justin
ill jump in and say that i dont beleive you have noticed that they
changed that. tool is not an angry band anymore. opiate was all anger
, undertow was mostly , aenima was half and lateralus, t&l is really the
only anger there. - justin
Swinging on the Spiral
"geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
> ...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>
I spoke with Maynard this morning, and he said they did that just to piss
you off....
Jeff
Maxfield Parish
>
> Spinning wildly out of control in alt.music.tool, on Wed, 23 May 2001
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >a, frankly, ASTONISHING capacity for nonsense. Absolutely incredible. I
> >was impressed despite myself.
>
> real nonsense... alt.fan.natasha for starters, as most of the mischief
> ends up crossposted there eventually
>
> pssssst, I'm also sure you've got little toad's gender a bit
> confuseled :)
Hmmm, wonder were little toad got it from?
> --
> ryannosaurus
> AMTCode: Regular T+ A++ L+ Sx B+ FMD P+* CP
--
>>>>>>>> Get Snuhy!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> news:alt.snuh-made-cascades.are-the-best
>>>>>>
>>>>>> news:alt.snuh-made-cascades
>>>>>
>>>>> news:alt.tv.simpsons.snuh
>>>>
>>>> news:alt.binaries.snuh
>>>
>>> news:alt.folklore.snuh
>>
>> news:alt.swnet.snuh
>
> news:alt.snuh
http://www.geocities.com/buhsnuh/
THE
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/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
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/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\
\/__/ \/__/ \/__/ \/__/
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|S|a|y| |D|u|h| |t|o| |S|n|u|h|
+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+-+-+
--
Harvey Ball, 1922-2001 RIP :(
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this has been another unique, handcrafted and thoughtful psot from the
Snuh family of fine psoters.
geekrock
Dave Cain wrote in message <9eh2pa$1jg$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>...
>I suppose perfection is possible, such as bowling a 300, but with
>> >respect to an art form I don't see the word 'perfect' as being
>meaningful.
>>
>>
>> We certainly do disagree - I think that it's only art (or to be less
>> specific - communication) where terms like "perfect" are of any use. In
>> fact, I'll take it further and say that Art is the struggle for
perfection
>> in a world where everything is imperfect.
>
>I'm sorry I don't understand why you'd say that. A stuggle for beauty in an
>ugly word, perhaps. That's how I see it.
For me, the beauty is pretty much incidental to communication. Keats said
that whatever the mind percieves as truth, is beauty. I guess that he
didn't think that minds would work in different ways. =)
>> Doesn't spoil the album itself - I've already said that I love the album
>> elsewhere in this thread - just the atmosphere of it. No average song
>would
>> stop me from loving Aenima.
>
>I understand what you mean. T&L does tend to stand out between Parabola and
>Lateralus. The way I view it that it is just a part of the flow. The
>atmosphere 'flows' to a place of anger, then resolves to the next track,
>etc. Instead of viewing T&L as outside of my conception of the
'atmosphere,'
>I change my conception of this atmosphere to include track eight. Then
>voila! It fits.
Yeah, I guess you could do that. It just pulls me out of the dream a little
though. Maybe that was the point.
<snip>
>> I'm an open minded dude. When my flatmate told me he was gay, I simply
>> shrugged and said "fancy a fuck?". When I heard that there was a lounge
>> version of Hooker with a Penis, I was the guy who said "hey, it might be
>> OK". I'm not someone who heard a heavy riff and thought "Limp Bizkit".
I
>> just can't see the shades and texture of meaning in HwaP or T+L that I do
>> in, say, The Patient or Jimmy.
>
>Point taken. Perhaps not every song is as deep as the Patient or Jimmy,
but
>it doesn't mean HwaP and T&L are there 'just to kick ass.'
Guess not.
<snip>
-b.
geekrock
>
>"geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
>> ...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
>>
>
>I spoke with Maynard this morning, and he said they did that just to piss
>you off....
Thought he would. Well, I always knew that my success in a Tool covers band
over here would get to him eventually, especially after I pulled that "I AM
TOOL" trick in the NME a few years back.
*b.
geekrock
ryannosaurus wrote in message <3b0d21d8...@news.teleport.com>...
>Spinning wildly out of control in alt.music.tool, on Thu, 24 May 2001
>09:55:54 +0100, "geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com>
>eat more asparagus
I'm actually feeling a burden of guilt which I never expected to feel over
killfiling a toad. Disturbing.
>>>>They have
>>>>a, frankly, ASTONISHING capacity for nonsense. Absolutely incredible.
I
>>>>was impressed despite myself.
>>>
>>>heh, you should sub some of Natasha's other groups if you want to see
>>>real nonsense... alt.fan.natasha for starters, as most of the mischief
>>>ends up crossposted there eventually
>>>
>>>pssssst, I'm also sure you've got little toad's gender a bit
>>>confuseled :)
>>
>>Aaah, I'm wont to do that. It's because of the nic, I always think that
>>Toads are male. I call my girlfriend little frog if I want to compare her
>>to an amphibian. Y'know.
>>
>
>Frogs just rock
Damn straight.
<thinks>
Hey, wonder what that word on that guys sig file meant. What was the word
again? Bmluh? Nah, that's not even a word.
<thinks>
Snuh?
-b.
PS Apology in advance to all amt members, I just find this really funny....
defdans
> "geekrock" <disappo...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:tgnnfbc...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
> > ...by putting a Ticks and Leeches or a Hooker with a Penis on them?
> >
> > Am I the only one for whom these songs spoil the ebb and flow of beautiful
> > albums?
>
>
> What makes you think "ebb and flow of beautiful albums" was Tool's intent?
> The contrast is an integral part of the whole, IMO.
that kind of goes back to my old theory of "without ugliness there is
no beauty". some of tools best songs IMO are at times almost nothing
but noise, distortion, squealing guitars etc. that suddenly drop out
and leave just maynard singing a beautiful phrase or whispering in
your ear or a mellow guitar riff. or even with lateralus, you can see
how almost every song has those extremely hard parts which make the
softer parts that much more beautiful. they wouldn't be that
beautiful if you didn't just listen to a wailing guitar for two
minutes. we probably wouldn't appreciate those parts as much.
ultimatesn and your mother
>Date: 5/24/01 9:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time
as I have stated before, I was referring to angry as in the way they sound, not
necessarily the emotion that the lyrics are about. THeres plenty of angry
sounds on Lateralus.
BaaaClaudius
> albums?
Right, as an excessively long-time lurker it takes a post like this to make
me come out of the closet, so to speak. And I'm slow as f**k... And been
away for two days... anyway...
Hi, I'm Ryan, I'm 18, I'm from England, been a fan since 96 (I'll be
mortified if that's not long enough, no... really...) but enough of that...
I absolutely agree with you. I totally adore Hooker, and to a lesser extent
Ticks & Leeches, though agree entirely that these two tracks don't form an
integral part of their respective albums at all as much as their
counterparts do. In fact I would say my three least favourite individual
Tool tracks, ignoring the obvious Ænima and Lateralus 'segues', are in no
particular order, T&L, Hooker, and Ænema. (so sue me if I've spelt it
wrong.)
Ænema might be the most surprising of these, given it is the title track
(maybe) of what is probably my favourite album (as to whether Lateralus
supersedes it... I'll tell you in a few years...) It's just to me it doesn't
seem to fit the general mood of the album. It pretty much follows "Pushit",
a song which IMO I, perhaps wrongly, associated with some pretty-damn
personal sensitivity and self-reparation; and to have such an inherently
angry song following it doesn't seem quite right...
However, that said, on the day Lateralus came out, I bought three copies.
Two for me, and one for a mate who was with me, and who I've been trying,
with some success, to convert to Tool. He's a death metaller whose favourite
bands are Meshuggah, Arcturus and Carcass. He immediately decided that the
album was absolutely incredible. He proclaimed his favourite track to be
T&L.
What people see in Ticks so much I personally have no idea, other than
Maynard's vocals which, even more than usual, are absolutely incredible. Not
to mention Danny's contributuion... Anyway, what I'm trying to say,
(slowly), is that, if it helps similarly open-minded people enjoy the Tool
experience, maybe that's a good thing?
just a thought
p.s. hi, btw.
Cichli
>Ticks & Leeches, though agree entirely that these two tracks don't form an
>integral part of their respective albums at all as much as their
>counterparts do.
they'd make really cool b-sides
though i still think hooker woulda been better if they did the first verse or
so as the lounge version and then broke out into the remainder of the
song......not _that_ woulda kicked ass. :)
:jason (so you can stick that fuckin finger you-know-where)
Cichli
>song......not _that_ woulda kicked ass. :)
>
supposed to say " noW _that_ woulda kicked ass
:jason (spell checkers....who needs 'em)
Imatzero
Order in Chaos
"Imatzero" <imat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010525001136...@ng-cl1.aol.com...
> i don't know guys i love those songs and i think they go with the album.
Me too :)
Order in Chaos
Me too :)
(whoops pressed a key combo which sent the msg at this point)
It's interesting that this whole thing really does seem to have divided into
a love vs hate of T&L - I love it personally, it's my equal favourite on the
album. Personally I don't see what the problem is - it reflects a lot of
the Opiate stuff, just with the Ænima style/quality of production. I'd also
love to play Opiate followed by Reflection, preferably by fading them
together.
As for Ænima, I've found that my appreciation for the album as a whole and
some songs such as Pushit have increased exponentially since being exposed
to Lateralus. For me at least, having been into Tool (bar Stinkfist and
Sober) for 7 months, I think the perspective of where Ænima fits in has been
clarified heaps by the new album. I have to say it is my favourite Tool
album, but Lateralus would be running a close second. Tracks I hadn't
really appreciated such as Pushit, (-) Ions and H in particular seem to have
brought themselves to my attention recently.
I know this has probably been discussed years ago and many times, but has
anyone else observed that in the last minute of Pushit every member of the
band is completely doing their own thing, only using a central timing to
hold the tune together? And then immediately afterwards you have the song
Ænema where everything is totally tied together, as almost a sort of
contrast. Just an observation.
Imatzero
Erika Musterfrau
>
> Today in alt.fan.natasha, Erika Musterfrau
> <snu...@NOSPAMPLEACEhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >miscreant wrote:
> >>
> >> Today in alt.fan.natasha, "geekrock"
> >
> >Fuh?
>
> Luh?
Huh?
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-b.
> >> >
> >> >PS Apology in advance to all amt members, I just find this really funny....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>--
> >> >>ryannosaurus
> >> >>AMTCode: Regular T+ A++ L+ Sx B+ FMD P+* CP
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> "I've come to create a new country called
> >> chaos, and a new government called anarchy."
> >University of Pants - Dean of Deanology and Snuh-Folklore Studies
>
> --
>
> "I've come to create a new country called
> chaos, and a new government called anarchy."
http://www.geocities.com/buhsnuh/
University of Pants - Dean of Deanology and Snuh-Folklore Studies
--
Harvey Ball, 1922-2001 RIP :(
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INVICTUS
miscreant <as...@alt.fan.natasha> wrote in message
news:3b4a6c60...@netchaos.news...
> Today in alt.fan.natasha, assassin...@420email.com
> (ryannosaurus) wrote:
>
> >Spinning wildly out of control in alt.music.tool, on Thu, 24 May 2001
> >eat more asparagus
> >
> >
> >>
> >>>>a, frankly, ASTONISHING capacity for nonsense. Absolutely incredible.
I
> >>>>was impressed despite myself.
> >>>
> >>>heh, you should sub some of Natasha's other groups if you want to see
> >>>real nonsense... alt.fan.natasha for starters, as most of the mischief
> >>>ends up crossposted there eventually
> >>>
> >>>pssssst, I'm also sure you've got little toad's gender a bit
> >>>confuseled :)
> >>
> >>Aaah, I'm wont to do that. It's because of the nic, I always think that
> >>Toads are male. I call my girlfriend little frog if I want to compare
her
> >>to an amphibian. Y'know.
> >>
> >
>
> Lizards too :-)
The Spice Girls could kick Tools ass.-IdiotS
INVICTUS
miscreant <as...@right.here> wrote in message
news:3b1f2daa...@netchaos.news...
Maynard is a redneck name.-AssHolE
rocky
wrote:
Gilbert is a french name. Move to france and get NUKED.
rocky
>Why are you signing your posts "Asshole"?
Its a flaw in the bot. Everyone who's run it, just can't be arsed to
fix that problem.
HTH
rocky
>Ahh gotcha. Although I think it is rather appropriate in this case.
The bots been running for years. It never gets any better than flaming
itself.
INVICTUS
rocky <ro...@agent2.exe> wrote in message
news:j9i2ht077u3q2olj2...@4ax.com...
Gilbert is an amazing name.-ScumBaG
INVICTUS
miscreant <as...@right.here> wrote in message
Learn to read.-AnalFacE
INVICTUS
rocky <ro...@agent2.exe> wrote in message
There is a flaw in your brain.-IdioT
INVICTUS
miscreant <as...@right.here> wrote in message
> Today in alt.fan.natasha, rocky <ro...@agent2.exe> wrote:
>
Inaccurate/inapplicable; fallacious regardless.-AnalFacE
INVICTUS
rocky <ro...@agent2.exe> wrote in message
Irrelevant and illogical.-ButtFacE
INVICTUS
miscreant <as...@right.here> wrote in message
You two should get a room.-FuckinJerkS