OT: Incubus.
Up2Me2B99
Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, and those kinds.........but then I got a promo copy
of their latest album Morning View (only cd that was allowed in my player
besides Lateralus) and it blew me away, so I went and picked up their other
albums (make yourself, science) and couldn't believe what I was hearing, these
guys are a awesome band IMO...........So I was just wondering what other
TOOLheads take on Incubus is?
Later.
Up2me.
Realizedyou
I love them. S.C.I.E.N.C.E. is my favorite, but I just heard Morning View for
the first time this weekend, and I really liked what I heard...minus the extra
pop sound it acquired.
Jimmy
Flying
it's like they are turning FM.. hope they won't become another kind of Sugar
Ray!
but yep they have nothing to do with LB (no one is great as them :) )
"Realizedyou" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
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Up2Me2B99
extra
> pop sound it acquired.
>
> Jimmy<<
I don't really think of it as a "pop sound" so to speak, but more of a
spreading their wings type of thing.........once you get popular you can't make
the same music as before, you change.......so of course your music is going to
change with it, perfect example is Undertow to Lateralus....you try different
things......that's what I think at least.
Up2Me.
Eden Lin
fact that they're sort of poppy, at least it's really good pop. I think
their guitar player comes up with very cool songs and the singer is one of
the best in "mainstream" rock today...
Realizedyou
I understand what you're saying, however I think that the difference in SCIENCE
and Morning View is VASTLY different than the difference in Undertow and
Lateralus.
Read the lyrics to SCIENCE. Then read the lyrics to Morning View. That's where
the 'poppy-ness' comes from, IMO.
Jimmy
>Up2Me.
deadduck
-Mike
"Up2Me2B99" <up2m...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Up2Me2B99
>spreading their wings type of thing.........once you get popular you can't
make
>the same music as before, you change.......so of course your music is going to
>change with it, perfect example is Undertow to Lateralus....you try different
>things......that's what I think at least.
>>I understand what you're saying, however I think that the difference in
SCIENCE
and Morning View is VASTLY different than the difference in Undertow and
Lateralus.
Read the lyrics to SCIENCE. Then read the lyrics to Morning View. That's
where
the 'poppy-ness' comes from, IMO.
Jimmy<<
>Up2Me.
In SCIENCE it seems they had a more hip hop influenced sound, but morning view
sounds more of a dare i say, progressive rock feel..........but again just my
opinion....I can see how you would put it in the category of "pop" but in a
way, they are pop cause they are a popular band......but I wouldnt go so far
as to put them in the same breath as these "pop rock agro acts of now"
Up2Me.
Jeremy Haik
> where
> the 'poppy-ness' comes from, IMO.
i second that....even science compared to make yourself...i hate to use such
a cliche term, but theyre fuckin sellouts....i mean, why the hell did
brandon (hell the whole band for that matter) adopt such a squeaky clean
look...they all used to have ratty dreads and and wear grungy clothes and
all of the sudden they look like fucking abercrombie poster kids??? no man
fuck that; thats the epitome of selling out...theyre blatantly changed their
image and even the messages in their songs to make themselves more
marketable...i'll still isten to science and enjoy incubus and fungus
amongus...maybe even make yourself to an extent, but ive got no fucking
respect for this sappy shit thats on morning view....SELL OUTS.....
jeremy
Sean
S.C.I.E.N.C.E. is easily my favorite album, but Morning View has some
excellent songs, i.e. Just a Phase and Aqueous Transmission. Toodles.
--
-Sean
http://www.geocities.com/Popemaynard81
"So now you see Lonestar, evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
"If you find yourself struggling with loneliness, remember that you are not
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"Up2Me2B99" <up2m...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Mike Smith
IMO, they're the only other band in the general "active rock" category (the
first one being Tool, of course) worth listening to. (Assuming either of
them belong in that category, that is.)
--
Mike Smith
Mike Smith
news:3c169bf7$1...@news.toolband.com...
Or maybe they're just growing up a bit.
--
Mike Smith
fetus
hate them when they do "sellout". if you listened to anyone based on the
clothes they wear compared on what the used to wear, or based on how many fans
they have now compared to when they first started out, how does it change their
music? i will listen to anything once to give it a chance, and if a band makes
new music that i dont like but i did like their older stuff, i still dont see
how i could label them a sellout just for not catering to my own personal
musical needs and tastes. oh well i probably am not making much sense
hehe.......just my opinion.
elvisonit
meeting them after a show a while back. i have been a fan of theirs for a
long time and it's nice to see them become successful. they are talented as
hell and grounded as well.
--
Elvis is on it
"Up2Me2B99" <up2m...@aol.com> wrote
Up2Me2B99
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Up2Me.
The Propies Man
though, so I felt the need to clarify.
Jimmy
Mike Smith wrote in message ...
, , ,,,
--
michael
cereboso.com
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G
my head!
zip09
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rat-racer
dangr
--
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and the belief in punishment after death."
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Up2Me2B99 <up2m...@aol.com> wrote in message
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mudpepper
(the
> first one being Tool, of course) worth listening to. (Assuming either of
> them belong in that category, that is.)
>
active rock, huh? never heard that term before, but i like it.
mudpepper
", , ,,," <amo...@cereboso.com> wrote in message
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Erik Pemberton
> S.C.I.E.N.C.E. is easily my favorite album
You should really check out Divided. They're a local band that recall
comparisons of _S.C.I.E.N.C.E._-era Incubus mixed with the percussive
side of Slipknot. Great stuff. www.mp3.com/divided
--
Erik
[np: Hedwig And The Angry Inch (DVD)]
http://members.aol.com/ENiGMA7479/
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mudpepper
"Erik Pemberton" <er...@erik.com> wrote in message
news:111220012358417093%er...@erik.com...
> > I love Incubus, they are quickly becoming one of my favorite bands.
> > S.C.I.E.N.C.E. is easily my favorite album
>
> You should really check out Divided. They're a local band that recall
> comparisons of _S.C.I.E.N.C.E._-era Incubus mixed with the percussive
> side of Slipknot. Great stuff. www.mp3.com/divided
how many drummers do they have?
Justin
as a band they can do many styles. thats all i think of the change after
science , its a growth. the grew from rockin out all the time and makin
funky sounds to bein able to do anything they want. their soundis so
versatile, more than almost anyone. i can honestly say that i like every
song on every album they have put out. there are very few bands i can
say that for. tool, aic , hmm thats it. some of the others i hodl as the
best , pj, stp, radiohead, kyuss, i cant even say about them that i like
EVERY song. thats why incubus is so great.another thing is that they
started so young and as friends. they have so much potential to be
around for a long time and do so many things. those whoworry that they
dont rock like on science, stopworryin they will have you covered
eventually. they will go back to that sound and on to many other new
sounds. just be ppy that right now they are makin good music, no matter
what they do. they can do it all.
Jeremy Haik
>
yea probably...if by "growing up" you mean "completely overhauling their
image to align it more precisely with industry standards of acceptable 'pop'
groups".....and it has nothing to do with what they fucking look like,
because, as i clearly stated, THEY CHANGED THEIR WHOLE MESSAGE...if thats
not a good reason to stop liking a band i dont know what is...i couldd;nt
care less what they wear, but there's a distinct shift in the band as a
whole that came part and parcel with the shift in how they look...they
aren't the same band anymore...they should have just changed their name as
well to make it compelete; the music (no, GENRE), lyrics, message,
image...NONE of them are even remotely the same, and COINCIDENTALLY, what
they do have now seems to have given them a little more success in the mtv
vh1 money money money arena...if you're arguing theyre not sellouts then
youre arguing that this radical shift in the ENTIRE value system the band
was previously based upon is just happens to be a natural progression, pay
no mind to the exponential monetary growth theyve experienced as a result...
no way man, thats bullshit...and yes, by the way, ive listened to morning
view....once...i would honestly not be so pissy about this is they had just
changed their damn name too...
jeremy
Realizedyou
I hardly EVER change my mind about something because of listening to someone
else's viewpoint, but yeah, I see what you're saying. I guess you could say
they did sellout...even though I was getting these same feelings long ago when I
saw the video for Stellar everyday on College Television Network and MTV and
almost threw up. Nowadays, with the new album, yeah, it's worse than Make
Yourself portrayed them.
So, while I'll still listen to them for what they are (because some songs aren't
*that* bad...only *that* bad when you consider they're coming from a band that
was like Incubus used to be), I do agree with your stance.
Jimmy
>jeremy
>
>
|2a\/e|\|
cant stand to see the ad's telling ppl to vote for them on trl...they can do
without that shit...but saw them on leno a week ago, performed awesome...and
i think they got a dvd released, either today, or within the next week or
so...3 concerts...should be a good buy...but yeah...i like em..
Erik Pemberton
> > comparisons of _S.C.I.E.N.C.E._-era Incubus mixed with the percussive
> > side of Slipknot. Great stuff. www.mp3.com/divided
>
> how many drummers do they have?
These guys only have two, but they can sound like 3 guys at times. One
guy does all the kit work, and the other does ethnic percussion...
everything from bongos and such to timbales. Good stuff, very complex
and moving.
--
Erik
[np: nothing]
Mike Smith
...obsess much?
--
Mike Smith
Mike Smith
Hmm. Maynard James Keenan has some words of wisdom on this subject, that
might be appropriate. (From memory, so don't hang me on details, folks.)
"All you know about me's what I sold ya, dumbfuck -
I sold out long before you ever even heard my name;
I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit,
And then you bought one...
I've got some advice for you, there, buddy,
Before you point your finger, you should know that I'm the Man,
And if I'm the fucking Man then you're the fucking Man as well
So you can point that fucking finger up your ass..."
--
Mike Smith
Mike Smith
news:9v70c1$6bo$1...@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
Read it somewhere, don't remember where. I think of it as basically "the
WXRK playlist" (which won't mean anything if you don't live in the metro New
York area, but you can look at www.krockradio.com if you want). Tool and
Incubus, but also Duhhhrst, Korn, Linkin Park, POD, and all that other stuff
that, um, RAAWWWWWKS, as the kiddies are fond of saying. ;-)
--
Mike Smith
jen
guys and yes, SCIENCE probably is their best work to date.. and yes the
change from SCIENCE to Morning View is obvious and seems like it's more
towards pop.. which it may very well be.. i don't like throwing around terms
like "sell-out" because of all the baggage that goes with them but.. I
really think Incubus is just doing what they want to do, in an interview
Brandon said that their goal, when creating a new album, is to write
completely different songs.. He said they wanted every album to sound
different & if they found themselves writing songs that sounded like things
from the past they scrapped them and started over.. I don't think thats a
bad game plan at all.. not to mention, one they've successfully completed...
-jen
> thats all i think of the change after
> science , its a growth.
> they will go back to that sound and on to many other new
> sounds. just be happy that right now they are makin good music, no matter
|2a\/e|\|
saw the guitarist...sorry, i dont know his name, dont mean any
disrespect...cuz i think he's great, but he looks way too much like richard
simmons...get a hair cut...or at least make workout videos...
i like these guys a lot...gonna get that new dvd thats due out soon...3
concerts if im not mistaken...
Jeremy Haik
> might be appropriate. (From memory, so don't hang me on details, folks.)
>
> "All you know about me's what I sold ya, dumbfuck -
> I sold out long before you ever even heard my name;
> I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit,
> And then you bought one...
>
> I've got some advice for you, there, buddy,
> Before you point your finger, you should know that I'm the Man,
> And if I'm the fucking Man then you're the fucking Man as well
> So you can point that fucking finger up your ass..."
hmmm...if i remember correctly, i was talking about INCUBUS and not about
tool...are you seriously trying to imply that hooker with a penis was
written to address every singular usage of the phrase sell-out??? i was
under the impression that the song in question was written a strike against
"fans" who accused tool (you know, the band who wrote the song...) of
selling out, a band, whom I might add, is FAR from guilty of any of the
offences (and they are offences) the I named in reference to incubus under
my last post...and by the way, what makes you think imp "obsessed"? because
I made a valid and though out point??
insecure about your own intelligence much?
jeremy
p.s. dont even use the word "folks" again...unless you want to be the
president or something
Jeremy Hall
to your personal taste. A good example would be Tool's progressive move
throughout their albums. I know that there were fans at a bunch of the
concerts that I went to these past few months who were all angry at Tool's
new material and were furthermore upset that they weren't playing "the old
stuff" (they also, with incredible wit, surmised that this shift is due to
Maynard's dabbling in a much lighter toned band). Now, besides the fact that
the aforementioned "fans" politely refuse to utilize their neurons, I think
this situation also displays a difference between "selling-out" and refusing
to cater to the individual fan's taste. I think we can all agree that
Lateralus does not cater to mainstream imagery, unless YOU have seen
Kabbalah and Merkabah mysticism on Fox lately. Incubus, on the other hand,
has changed their messages regarding many issues in their songs and have
cleaned up their image in many ways. Consequently, they've become so much
more appealing according to media standards and all of a sudden *boom*,
Brandon and Carson Daly are fucking hobknobbing on my television. Granted,
Incubus are still working at a job and they're earning money, but they have
sold-out to the almighty dollar and, in contradicting and betraying their
ideas, images, and messages, they have sacrificed their atristic integrity.
So, fine, they're a band who is making lots of money now and has aquired
teeny-bopper fans. They have also lost a core group of fans who have been
tagging along since SCIENCE and Enjoy Incubus.
-Jeremy
fetus <foof...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3C16A0BA...@home.com...
Realizedyou
There's quite a gap in your logic here though. I mean, you're quoting a song by
Tool that obviously was a lash out at people who thought that because Ænima
sounded the way it did, Tool had sold out. The main aspect of my argument (or
yours, depending on which side you look from) is that Tool are not on TV. Tool
don't make songs that sound more accessible to radio as they progress through
albums. Tool aren't on VH1 and MTV more and more everyday. (Incubus even does
little betweens to introduce songs about to come on now...well, Brandon and the
drummer do anyway) Also, it's quite obvious (and one of my main complaints)
that Brandon didn't sell his soul on Morning View to make it. The lyrics on
Morning View are so trite that it's sickening to me. The lyrics on Make
Yourself and SCIENCE *really* made me think...like Tool's lyrics do. The new
ones don't at all...in fact, it sounds like I'm listening to a Nickelback song
or something when I listen to the lyrics of Morning View. He sold some of his
soul on Make Yourself, and pretty much all of it on SCIENCE.
If you boil it down, you see that there are major differences in what Maynard
was referring to when he wrote those lyrics compared to what we are discussing
with Incubus.
Jimmy
>--
>Mike Smith
>
>
>
Realizedyou
>
>Here's what I think about Incubus.. They are undoubtedly a talented group of
>guys and yes, SCIENCE probably is their best work to date.. and yes the
>change from SCIENCE to Morning View is obvious and seems like it's more
>towards pop.. which it may very well be.. i don't like throwing around terms
>like "sell-out" because of all the baggage that goes with them but.. I
>really think Incubus is just doing what they want to do, in an interview
>Brandon said that their goal, when creating a new album, is to write
>completely different songs.. He said they wanted every album to sound
>different & if they found themselves writing songs that sounded like things
>from the past they scrapped them and started over.. I don't think thats a
>bad game plan at all.. not to mention, one they've successfully completed...
>-jen
>
You don't think some of the songs on Morning View (the music, mood, and vocal
melodies) sound like Make Yourself? It sounds to me, and this is just my
opinion, that they just continued writing Make Yourself (minus lyrics, which
only got worse) when they wrote Morning View.
Jimmy
Justin
get this one write me or somethin.
PeeCee EiZ
> > Read the lyrics to SCIENCE. Then read the lyrics to Morning View. That's
> > where
> > the 'poppy-ness' comes from, IMO.
>
> i second that....even science compared to make yourself...i hate to use such
> a cliche term, but theyre fuckin sellouts....i mean, why the hell did
> brandon (hell the whole band for that matter) adopt such a squeaky clean
> look...they all used to have ratty dreads and and wear grungy clothes and
> all of the sudden they look like fucking abercrombie poster kids??? no man
> fuck that; thats the epitome of selling out...theyre blatantly changed their
> image and even the messages in their songs to make themselves more
> marketable...i'll still isten to science and enjoy incubus and fungus
> amongus...maybe even make yourself to an extent, but ive got no fucking
> respect for this sappy shit thats on morning view....SELL OUTS.....
>
> jeremy
I've got some advice for you, little buddy...
PeeCee EiZ
>
> Hmm. Maynard James Keenan has some words of wisdom on this subject, that
> might be appropriate. (From memory, so don't hang me on details, folks.)
>
> "All you know about me's what I sold ya, dumbfuck -
> I sold out long before you ever even heard my name;
> I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit,
> And then you bought one...
>
Damn, beat me :)
Muffîn
"jen" <faaipd...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3c179f1c$1...@news.toolband.com...
> Here's what I think about Incubus.. They are undoubtedly a talented group
of
> guys and yes, SCIENCE probably is their best work to date.. and yes the
> change from SCIENCE to Morning View is obvious and seems like it's more
> towards pop.. which it may very well be.. i don't like throwing around
terms
> like "sell-out" because of all the baggage that goes with them but.. I
> really think Incubus is just doing what they want to do, in an interview
> Brandon said that their goal, when creating a new album, is to write
> completely different songs.. He said they wanted every album to sound
> different & if they found themselves writing songs that sounded like
things
> from the past they scrapped them and started over.. I don't think thats a
> bad game plan at all.. not to mention, one they've successfully
completed...
> -jen
I think that's a rather silly thing to say. It makes it sound as if the
music
you are creating just comes at random, rather than being an honest
expression
of where you are at that moment (or an indication that you actually are
somewhere, and that you are progressing.) Oh, look, we've produced some
noises, this sounds like what we did two years ago, nah, let's start over...
and over...
PeeCee EiZ
<snip Hooker with a Penis>
>
> If you boil it down, you see that there are major differences in what Maynard
> was referring to when he wrote those lyrics compared to what we are discussing
> with Incubus.
>
> Jimmy
>
Actually, I would like to think Tool's message usually wants to be a lot more
universal than that. Perhaps the song was written during a very particular moment in
the band's career, which does not mean they wanted to send a much broader message.
I really can't stand the attitude of some people that whenever a band becomes
"popular" they are "selling out". First I think you'd have to clearly define those
two concepts, which isn't always done. Second, isn't the whole intention of an
artist to communicate their art to the world? The bigger an audience they have, the
better. Fuck, I'd be glad if Britney Spears fans started listening to Tool, chances
are some of that 80% of idle grey matter in the world might be put to some use. I
also don't really mind that artists make money off their art as long as it doesn't
become the moving force behind it (example: many "Best Of" compilations).
Specifically, in the Incubus discussion, I'd like to say that I love Morning View
because... well, it just sounds fucking great. I got it on MP3 the day it was
leaked, I bought it as soon as it hit stores here, I've listened to it many times
and keep enjoying it. And that's because it has some great music. Unfortunately, I'd
have to agree that their lyrics have been somewhat "dumbed down", yet their music
has gotten much better. The most enjoyment I get out of S.C.I.E.N.C.E. is reading
the lyrics because frankly I can't stand most of the music, and I think Incubus'
weakest points are the DJ and when Brandon starts hip-hopping, those most exploited
in that album (I can't stand hip-hop, sorry). I'm hoping their next album will keep
the great sound, and perhaps further explore that aggressive vein they show at
times, while returning to their brilliant lyrics.
- PeeCee
PS: Sorry if this message occassionally doesn't make sense, it's well over 30
degrees Celsius out here, I can't think and I'm gonna go down to the swimming pool
now.
fetus
shaving and wearing nice clothes instead of obscure clothes? i can understand
not liking a song because i dont relate to the lyrics, but i still dont
understand how that makes them sellouts. the only way i can understand a band
selling out is if their label or manager came to the band asking them to change
their music to be more pleasant to the mass, and they agree to amke music that
doesnt come from the heart. in which case Incubus could have sold out, but how
do you really know?
Jeremy Hall wrote:
--
-breath out so i can breath you in
Jeremy Haik
yea i saw the irrelevant comment the first time it was posted dipshit...
jeremy
mudpepper
interpretations every single tool song has and how great maynard is at
writing words that everyone can take something different from? You think he
would just give that up and write an entire song soley about his own band?
You think he would limit himself that much? Open your eyes man.
"Jeremy Haik" <jh...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:3c17...@news.toolband.com...
Jeremy Hall
they did since "Hush". If you think the song was about defending ALL
"sell-outs" can you explain why Tool befriended Limp Bizkit (Limp Bizkit
thank Tool in the liner notes of Three Dollar Bill) in the early days and
yet today, after Fred Durst and his collection of assholes have led the
brigade into media whoredom, Tool shun Limp Bizkit in a number of articles?
They're not saying "nobody sells out" but rather responding to their
"original" fans who were calling them sell-outs because of their rise in
popularity.
-Jeremy
mudpepper <as...@some.time> wrote in message
news:9v90hn$kbs$1...@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
The Propies Man
mudpepper wrote in message <9v90hn$kbs$1...@laurel.tc.umn.edu>...
>how many posts are there every single damn week about how many
>interpretations every single tool song has and how great maynard is at
>writing words that everyone can take something different from? You think he
>would just give that up and write an entire song soley about his own band?
>You think he would limit himself that much? Open your eyes man.
"...who claimed that he was OGT, back in '92 from the first EP."
"Buy, buy my new record."
I think the song is indeed about the band and the music they were making at
that point in time, but it can be extended out to other things beyond just
that. However, I don't think this situation is one of those situations that
it can be extended to.
Jimmy
Mike Smith
> > I've got some advice for you, little buddy...
>
> yea i saw the irrelevant comment the first time it was posted dipshit...
"Irrelevant" or, um, "inconvenient", eh?
--
Mike Smith
There are perhaps 5% of the population that simply *can't* think.
There are another 5% who *can*, and *do*.
The remaining 90% *can* think, but *don't*.
-- R. A. Heinlein
mudpepper
> >how many posts are there every single damn week about how many
> >interpretations every single tool song has and how great maynard is at
> >writing words that everyone can take something different from? You think
he
> >would just give that up and write an entire song soley about his own
band?
> >You think he would limit himself that much? Open your eyes man.
>
> "...who claimed that he was OGT, back in '92 from the first EP."
>
> "Buy, buy my new record."
>
> I think the song is indeed about the band and the music they were making
at
> that point in time, but it can be extended out to other things beyond just
> that. However, I don't think this situation is one of those situations
that
> it can be extended to.
>
> Jimmy
>
yeah... i know what you mean. I was just saying I dont think the song is
limited purely to tool. I know just what everyone is talking about with
incubus, and I agree with most of it. However, I dont know their motivation
and neither does anyone else. When you assume things you make an ass of you
and me. People change... sometimes this change gets people more money. wgaf?
if you like old incubus music, go listen to it some more. It's not like they
owe you more of the same. They already gave you what you paid them for.
mudpepper
93X
"Mike Smith" <smi...@michaelsmithHATESSPAM.org> wrote in message
news:u1f6ua5...@news.supernews.com...
Hollywood Shocker
--
I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human.
With my feet upon the ground I lose myself
between the sounds and open wide to suck it in,
Realizedyou
Well, I do listen to the old stuff, thank you. I never said they owed me
anything, actually. I'm just disappointed (and I have the right to be...it is a
country where I can have an opinion...at least right now, but that's another
thread) as a musician about the choices they've made as a band.
Jimmy
PeeCee EiZ
> > I've got some advice for you, little buddy...
>
> yea i saw the irrelevant comment the first time it was posted dipshit...
>
Tsk tsk... quite the attitude we've got there, eh? Can you please explain
where I so viciously attacked you as to prompt this kind of response? Did
you insult your teachers and parents too when they made comments you didn't
like?
Some people just can't take (understand?) criticism.
- PeeCee
PS: Oh, and by the way, it wasn't a comment, it was a quote. I hadn't
realized somebody else had posted it too. I think it's quite relevant but of
course I don't expect you to understand that I have an opinion too.
insaner
>So I had avoided Incubus at all costs, out of fear they were another band like
>Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, and those kinds.........but then I got a promo copy
>of their latest album Morning View (only cd that was allowed in my player
>besides Lateralus) and it blew me away, so I went and picked up their other
>albums (make yourself, science) and couldn't believe what I was hearing, these
>guys are a awesome band IMO...........So I was just wondering what other
>TOOLheads take on Incubus is?
well, ive found that the lkyrical content is what seperates them form
most other fm bands of a similar genre. thr message on make yourself
is very toolsih, and i really only dislike one song, the last one. as
for morning view, it alright.
ta numquam intelligis
Mike Smith
news:9v937n$drtoc$1...@ID-114167.news.dfncis.de...
>
> However, I don't think this situation is one of those situations that
> it can be extended to.
Well, at the risk of sounding puerile, "Says you!". Your interpretation is
not the only one. (Nor is anyone else's, of course.)
--
Mike Smith
Jeremy Haik
> >
>
hahahahaha...by the way, SO WAS MINE...why do you think i used the word
"dipshit"...would you have prefered "dumb fuck"??...do you know the lyrics
to hooker with a penis???? hahahahahha...foot in your mouth much??
-jeremy
hahahahaha man you're lame
Mike Smith
A *one*-word so-called "quote" from a song isn't really something to start
feeling all superior and smug about. Then again, I get the idea that you
were feeling all superior and smug *long* before this thread ever came
along.
Jeremy Haik
> feeling all superior and smug about.
the gaps in logic keep getting wider and wider don't they...out of
curiosity, why dont you tell me what you're trying to say in more succinct
terms, cause I'm clearly too supid to grasp the point you're attempting to
make...just in case you haven't been keeping up, i was responding to the
SECOND time the h.w.a.p. quote was IRRELEVANTLY thrown out, and thus it
really had nothing to do with you whatsoever, being that i had already
addressed your original post...but reguardless, i was highlighting that fact
that it really is unnecessary for multiple people to post the EXACT same
comment...you wanna explain how that's, as you so eloquently put it,
"superior and smug"?? sorry if i dont feel the need to read the same thing
over and over and over and over again...quite the useful idoit aren't we?
<wink wink>
>Then again, I get the idea that you
> were feeling all superior and smug *long* before this thread ever came
> along.
im sorry you feel that way...have you had any counseling done to try and
clear up that little inferiority complex you've got working there?
all in good fun... :-)
-jeremy
TrentC2003
Jeremy Hall
suggestion that "Hooker with a Penis" can be an anthem applied to Incubus
and how they didn't sell out. Jeremy then went on to note that the song was
directed to the Tool fans calling TOOL sell-outs. We aren't talking about
Tool. Rather, we are discussing Incubus. Thus, the irrelevancy shines
through.
-Jeremy
Mike Smith <smi...@michaelsmith.NOSPAMorg> wrote in message
news:u1g54l9...@news.supernews.com...
Jeremy Hall
HAHAHAHAHA
*cough cough*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-Jeremy
Jeremy Haik <jh...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:3c197679$1...@news.toolband.com...
[michael]
>I mean, why the hell did
>brandon (hell the whole band for that matter) adopt such a squeaky clean
>look...they all used to have ratty dreads and and wear grungy clothes and
>all of the sudden they look like fucking abercrombie poster kids??? no man
>fuck that; thats the epitome of selling out...theyre blatantly changed their
>image and even the messages in their songs to make themselves more
>marketable...
Maynard sold out because he cut his mullet.. SELL OUT...!
Haha
[michael]
Mike Smith
news:3c1a...@news.toolband.com...
> No I'm pretty sure he meant "irrelevant" because somebody had raised the
> suggestion that "Hooker with a Penis" can be an anthem applied to Incubus
> and how they didn't sell out. Jeremy then went on to note that the song
was
> directed to the Tool fans calling TOOL sell-outs. We aren't talking about
> Tool. Rather, we are discussing Incubus. Thus, the irrelevancy shines
> through.
And has been indicated elsewhere in this thread, it's only possible to
consider "HWaP" completely irrelevant if you're a concrete-bound person whom
is incapable of abstracting general concepts. I for one give Keenan a
little more credit than to assume that the song is only about one narrow
specific instance of selling-out. Anyone who *thinks* about it for a second
would be able to see that there is a more general message in the song - that
the very act of seeking commercial distribution, and its associated fame and
fortune, has *already* sold out. After all, if you're in it for the love of
music, then wouldn't it be better to do it your own way than to produce
something that is commercially palatable?
--
Mike Smith
Jeremy Hall
that are absolutely necessary. They are artists but they must still function
in a business. Yes, I do see them as responding to the overusage of the term
"sell-out" and I see "Hooker with a Penis" as pointing out that most of
these people don't even realize what selling out is. Tool are, without a
doubt, performing according to their own artistry, but they must still exist
within a corporate structure. The fact that they're working at a job means
they make money. Making money does not mean selling out. So, yes "Hooker
with a Penis" can be applied to other artists because other artists are in
the same situation as they were (fans calling them sell-outs because of a
rise in their popularity). However, despite the fact that I agree with
Tool's brilliant construction of universal messages, I don't see how that
means "Hooker with a Penis" is defending all bands everywhere who have ever
been accused of "selling out". Especially considering that Incubus HAVE
completely shifted and contradicted their past artistry to cater to a more
popular commercial image and Tool never did.
Now as far as the personal insult regarding my lack of ability in
abstraction of general concepts, feel free to point out all of the complex
symbols and cause for interpretation within "Hooker with a Penis" for me. I
mean, comparatively speaking, I think that "Hooker with a Penis" is one of
their least abstract songs and as much as I appreciate Tool for their
ability to use metaphor and symbol in mind-opening ways, it is not totally
out of the realm of possibility that they would write a straight-forward
song either. Then again I guess the whole Opiate EP can just be thrown out
the window right? I fail to see how both mine and Jeremy's interpretation of
"Hooker with a Penis" as a less general concept than the rest of you, means
that neither of us have the ability to understand ANY of the abstract
concepts in ANY Tool songs. That was such an astute observation. I mean I
know that I for one don't see any reason to interpret anything they've done,
and just like you so wittingly surmised, I read all of it in a narrow frame
of mind. Coincidentally, I was up all night in a failed attempt to find
Saturn in the night sky while counting to ten and painting an anchor gold.
Don't let your argument turn into an unfounded, mindless mud-slinging.
-Jeremy
PS- I went out of my way to shop around for a quality one, and now the snake
won't fucking sing. I mean how am I ever going to turn this jar of urine
into a quality batch of bourdeaux.
Mike Smith <smi...@michaelsmithHATESSPAM.org> wrote in message
news:u1kkf3m...@news.supernews.com...
Mike Smith
news:3c1a...@news.toolband.com...
> However, despite the fact that I agree with
> Tool's brilliant construction of universal messages, I don't see how that
> means "Hooker with a Penis" is defending all bands everywhere who have
ever
> been accused of "selling out".
I didn't say it did. I said it probably had more general meaning than the
narrow interpretation of Tool responding to its fans over a particular
album. I don't see that it necessarily has to be totally one way or totally
the other. Not everything in life is that clear-cut.
> Now as far as the personal insult regarding my lack of ability in
> abstraction of general concepts
It was mostly a response to *your* personal insult to me (you know, that
"irrelevancy" bit). What goes around comes around.
--
Mike Smith
Justin
contradicted their past artistry to cater to a more popular commercial
i just wanna say this only your opinion , not fact. you seem to be
convinced its fact. - justin
Sean
--
-Sean
http://www.geocities.com/Popemaynard81
"So now you see Lonestar, evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
"If you find yourself struggling with loneliness, remember that you are not
alone. And yet you are alone. So very alone"
AMTCode(v2): [Newbie][TÆ][A5][L ][Sx][B+][FM][P][CM]
"Up2Me2B99" <up2m...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011211155129...@mb-fa.aol.com...
> So I had avoided Incubus at all costs, out of fear they were another band
like
> Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, and those kinds.........but then I got a promo
copy
> of their latest album Morning View (only cd that was allowed in my player
> besides Lateralus) and it blew me away, so I went and picked up their
other
> albums (make yourself, science) and couldn't believe what I was hearing,
these
> guys are a awesome band IMO...........So I was just wondering what other
> TOOLheads take on Incubus is?
>
> Later.
> Up2me.
Jeremy Hall
Now that you've pointed out that nothing in this argument is clear-cut, you
have to agree that not all bands fall under the message of "Hooker with a
Penis". That means that it is possible for a band to sell-out. So, beyond
the fact that it was pointless for you to have used the lyrics for "Hooker
with a Penis" in the first place since they don't apply to every "sell-out"
situation ever, remind me where Incubus comes in again? Is that the implied
part of your argument? "Tool wrote this song regarding the concept of
selling-out in the corporate world, hence, Incubus did not sell out."
Incubus changed their image, their music, and the MESSAGES in their music.
Whether or not you support drug usage, you have to see that Incubus was an
enormous drug band before Make Yourself and Morning View. All of a sudden,
Brandon is choosing "the water over wine" (which is a stupid place for the
analogy anyway because the song is not religious at all) and waving his
"chance to be one of the high". Obviously it's total coincidence that at the
same time their message changed, they cleaned themselves up, and made their
music more radio friendly. As a further strange coincidence, they sold
shitloads of albums and became regulars on MTV.
I noticed how you also glossed over the lyrics to "Hooker with a Penis", the
same way you glossed over my last post and responded to what you felt like
responding to. The lyrics I'm referring to specifically are "I met a boy
wearing Vans, 501s, and a dope beastie-tee, nipple rings, and new tattoos
that claimed that he was OGT, from '92, the first EP. and in between sips of
coke he told me that he thought we were sellin' out..." I guess it's just
coincidence that Opiate was an EP that came out in 1992. So, Maynard is
pretty direct in saying that someone is criticizing Tool for selling out
after their first EP in 1992. Then he goes on to say that "All you read and
Wear or see and Hear on TV Is a product Begging for your Fatass dirty Dollar
." He definitely seems to be focused on people who claim a band (Tool
specifically in this case) sold out because they became popular and made
money. These people don't understand (as I indicated in my last post) that
making money does not mean selling out.
Both myself and Jeremy Haik made it clear that we think Incubus sold out
because of specific and significant changes they underwent in order to make
lots of money. In entirerly contradicting their ideas, they sacrificed their
artistic integrity. Either they're lying now or they were lying before and
in every interview I read with Brandon of the Jungle, he simply insists that
"the music changes and grows as we grow." There's no mention of "well we
realized that what we were about before was all wrong and we are taking our
message in an entirely new direction." Suspiciously, he makes no mention of
how he has, through his lyrics, changed the band's message regarding
important issues that used to be central to the band to totally opposing,
socially-acceptable messages. So, Incubus may be successful entertainers and
wise businessmen, but they are not artists.
-Jeremy
Mike Smith <smi...@michaelsmithHATESSPAM.org> wrote in message
news:u1l0gcb...@news.supernews.com...
Jeremy Hall
"Will I choose water over wine and hold my own and drive." My mistake,
though.
-Jeremy
PeeCee EiZ
>
> > yea i saw the irrelevant comment the first time it was posted dipshit...
> >
>
>
> "dipshit"...would you have prefered "dumb fuck"??...do you know the lyrics
> to hooker with a penis???? hahahahahha...foot in your mouth much??
Oooh, I get it, I get it! CLEVER! The word "dipshit", is, obviously, a Tool
quote. In fact, to prove I'm not as stupid as you think, I carefully looked and
realized your whole message was actually made of cleverly-extracted pop-culture
quotes!
Now let's see. "hahahahaha" is from the end of every He-Man episode when they'd
laugh with Teela, Orco and Man-at-arms. "By the way" comes from the
ever-so-funny "Ace Ventura" when he's talking out of his ass ("by the way, do
you have a mint? Perhaps some Binaca?"). "So was mine" is straight cut & paste
from Shakespeare's "Henry VI". Then there's "Why Do You Think They Call it Dope"
by LL Cool J. "I used the word" is a veiled reference to President Clinton's
word-games during the Lewinsky case. We already know where (obviously) "dipshit"
and "dumb fuck" come from. "Know" is from the Pearl Jam song "Off he Goes".
"Lyrics"? Ah, how can we forget Patrick Bateman's fabulous speech on the band
Genesis. "Hooker" immediately reminds us of the three-titted-wonder from Total
Recall and of course penis is from E.T.'s "penis breath". Etc etc.
> hahahahaha man you're lame
Oh, I'm really really sorry I can't be as cool as you. I bet all your 4th-grade
mates also think you're a mean-ass k-rad mofo.
PeeCee EiZ
> out of curiosity, why dont you tell me what you're trying to say in more
> succinct
> terms, cause I'm clearly too supid to grasp the point you're attempting to
> make...
Indeed.
> just in case you haven't been keeping up, i was responding to the
> SECOND time the h.w.a.p. quote was IRRELEVANTLY thrown out, and thus it
> really had nothing to do with you whatsoever, being that i had already
> addressed your original post...
*sigh* Someday after you finish elementary school and if you ask me really,
REALLY nicely, I just *might* explain to you the issues of news propagation
through NNTP. In the meantime, and if you feel up to it, you might make an
effort and consider just *what* would happen if everyone in the planet didn't
read a post made on Usenet on the very instant the poster presses "Send".
- PeeCee
PeeCee EiZ
> you have to agree that not all bands fall under the message of "Hooker with a
>
> Penis". <major snip>
Let me try and clarify. The point that a few of us have been trying to make in
this discussion is not that Maynard wrote Hooker with a Penis thinking about
Incubus. What we think is that he wrote it as a way to answer, in general, to
all the kiddies who stand up and start screaming the day (*gasp*) somebody ELSE
actually listens to a band they like. In that context, we believe it's quite
relevant because we DON'T think Incubus are necessarily sell-outs just because
they're "popular" now.
You claim they've abandoned their principles. You claim what they do is not art.
All I'm asking is, who are you to say? IMHO you don't have nearly enough
evidence for all of that. Only they know what they believe in. I say we wait for
their next album or so before such a judgement can be made. BTW, I think the
drug argument is pointless... how can you judge a band based on the drugs they
consume or put into their songs?
- PeeCee
PS: Please expand more on this contradiction you see in their lyrics... I don't
see it so clearly (although I must admit I haven't looked that hard)
Jeremy Hall
(1996) and SCIENCE (1997) to Make Yourself (1999) and Morning View (2001).
Old Incubus:
"What if my watch read 4:20 every hour, every day? You can bet your dollar
I'd be happy!"
"You've got to be hilikus" -pronounced "High Like Us"
A song called "Magic Medicine"
"Don't you dare inhale or you'll be damned to hell? No!...There's something
about the herb, so fast, hypnotize. A ripened head change that'll pillow
your eyes."
New Incubus:
"I'm leaving the air behind me clear."
"Will I choose water over wine and hold my own and drive..."
"Perspective pries your once weighty eyes and it gives you wings."
-Jeremy
Justin <just...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27409-3C...@storefull-295.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Jeremy Hall
have overlooked all of them. So, I'll just reproduce them.
You wrote: "Let me try and clarify. The point that a few of us have been
trying to make in this discussion is not that Maynard wrote Hooker with a
Penis thinking about Incubus. What we think is that he wrote it as a way to
answer, in general, to all the kiddies who stand up and start screaming the
day (*gasp*) somebody ELSE actually listens to a band they like. In that
context, we believe it's quite relevant because we DON'T think Incubus are
necessarily sell-outs just because they're "popular" now.
I wrote beforehand:"Or Perhaps he's suggesting that there are certain
aspects of "the business" that are absolutely necessary. They are artists
but they must still function in a business. Yes, I do see them as responding
to the overusage of the term "sell-out" and I see "Hooker with a Penis" as
pointing out that most of
these people don't even realize what selling out is. Tool are, without a
doubt, performing according to their own artistry, but they must still exist
within a corporate structure. The fact that they're working at a job means
they make money. Making money does not mean selling out. So, yes "Hooker
with a Penis" can be applied to other artists because other artists are in
the same situation as they were (fans calling them sell-outs because of a
rise in their popularity). However, despite the fact that I agree with
Tool's brilliant construction of universal messages, I don't see how that
means "Hooker with a Penis" is defending all bands everywhere who have ever
been accused of "selling out". Especially considering that Incubus HAVE
completely shifted and contradicted their past artistry to cater to a more
popular commercial image and Tool never did.
You wrote:"BTW, I think the drug argument is pointless... how can you judge
a band based on the drugs they consume or put into their songs?
My new response:" I never ever said that a band needs to consume lots of
drugs to be cool. What I did say is that drug usage was always a central
theme in Incubus' music (See my post in response to Justin on 14 December at
8:47 comparing old Incubus lyrics and new Incubus lyrics). Drug usage, as we
all know, is not socially acceptable. Incubus not only abandoned this once
central theme in their music but also opposed it alongside cleaning
themselves up to look like runway models and changing their music to a more
radio friendly format. It's just highly suspicious that the new image they
just happened upon also made them lots of money. I do not think that a
stance on drugs is essential to music but I do think that if you make it an
important part of your music and then start speaking out against it without
any public acknowledgement towards the fact that you have changed your
stance, you are sacrificing your integrity as an artist."
PeeCee EiZ <eiz...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3C1AAB63...@NOSPAMhotmail.com...
Jeremy Haik
4th-grade
> mates also think you're a mean-ass k-rad mofo.
strong words coming from a guy who's handle includes the word Pee...now
honestly, youre only degrading this already pointless arguement further; its
got nothing to do with incubus anymore, so i'll save you the trouble of
thinking up yet another stunningly witty retort and suggest we just end this
now, mmm kay?
-jeremy
Stefen M Romero
(1996) and SCIENCE (1997) to Make Yourself (1999) and Morning View (2001).
Old Incubus:
"What if my watch read 4:20 every hour, every day? You can bet your dollar
I'd be happy!"
"You've got to be hilikus" -pronounced "High Like Us"
A song called "Magic Medicine"
"Don't you dare inhale or you'll be damned to hell? No!...There's something
about the herb, so fast, hypnotize. A ripened head change that'll pillow
your eyes."
New Incubus:
"I'm leaving the air behind me clear."
"Will I choose water over wine and hold my own and drive..."
"Perspective pries your once weighty eyes and it gives you wings."
-Jeremy<<
So since Incubus has maybe "matured out" of marijuana references in their
music, they are sell outs? Hmmmm interesting.
Stefen.
PeeCee EiZ
> Some of the answers to your post lie in my last few posts and you seemed to
> have overlooked all of them.
Not really...
> <snip>
> However, despite the fact that I agree with
> Tool's brilliant construction of universal messages, I don't see how that
> means "Hooker with a Penis" is defending all bands everywhere who have ever
> been accused of "selling out".
See? This is what I was arguing against. ALL I TRIED TO SAY was that the quote
was indeed relevant because in this *very* particular case I think this band can
be defended against sellout accusations for the reasons that have been exposed.
Tool wasn't defending Incubus, WE were, using Tool's idea. Much like I could
use, say, Aenema, to claim that New York is also a "bullshit three-ring circus
sideshow of freaks" without implying that EVERY city in the world deserves to be
flushed away.
> I never ever said that a band needs to consume lots of
> drugs to be cool. What I did say is that drug usage was always a central
> theme in Incubus' music (See my post in response to Justin on 14 December at
> 8:47 comparing old Incubus lyrics and new Incubus lyrics).
I found it very interesting, although I think some of your interpretations are
pushed a bit too far.
> Drug usage, as we
> all know, is not socially acceptable. Incubus not only abandoned this once
> central theme in their music but also opposed it alongside cleaning
> themselves up to look like runway models and changing their music to a more
> radio friendly format. It's just highly suspicious that the new image they
> just happened upon also made them lots of money. I do not think that a
> stance on drugs is essential to music but I do think that if you make it an
> important part of your music and then start speaking out against it without
> any public acknowledgement towards the fact that you have changed your
> stance, you are sacrificing your integrity as an artist.
>
Have you considered maybe they just "grew out of it"? I do think they've gone
through such a process that it was inevitable that at some point they matured
and realized drugs weren't that hot. Let me quote, for example, from the
interview at http://www.amzmusiczine.com/03_00/incubus.htm :
Brandon: We're all on drugs. Caffeine. Aspirin.
Mike: Tobacco.
Brandon. Marijuana.
Mike: And alcohol. None of us do hard drugs. Bad for the health. Bad for the
mind. Bad for the body. Bad for the soul.
They've been through tours, breakdowns, band therapy... I think it was logical
(and right) for this to happen.
- PeeCee
TrentC2003
material that can be logically interperted as durg related, like H. Sober or
Third Eye...did they sell out too?
Jeremy Hall
Perhaps if you bothered to read my past posts regarding this argument, you
could join in with ALL of the knowledge within this discussion. My argument
on this specifically is that drug usage was a CENTRAL THEME to the band in
the past. Now, they oppose it. I would not have a qualm with this if they
had made a public announcement that they have changed their ideas and
messages: "We had an incredible overnight epiphany where Uriel descended and
told the band that we should not only abandon some of our central themes,
but we should oppose our once strong stance." I have already written this
three times. Just because I raise the concept of drug usage doesn't mean
that I need a band to like drugs for them to be good. I myself am not even
an avid drug usage. I do, however, think that if you have dedicated a good
deal of your art to supporting such a thing, then you have firmly entrenched
yourself in a belief as far as your listeners are concered. Pulling a total
180 without any acknowledgement towards the fact that you have, sacrifices
your artistic integrity. Coincidentally, this change paralleled their
physical and musical change and ALL THREE of these changes just seemed to
match up to the socially acceptable ideals of a wicked pop-rock band!!
-Jeremy
Enter the next person who is going to approach me with the exact same
argument and force me to repeat myself again. Oh wait, this sentence will
probably be pulled out of context too so that a smartass remark will be made
and my whole argument will be shattered!!
Stefen M Romero <stefen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011215035353...@mb-mt.aol.com...
Jeremy Hall
in absolutely NO PART of my argument did I say that Tool have adopted drug
usage as a central theme to their music. It is an issue they touch upon and
sometimes utilize but they are by no means dedicated to it. So, I guess I'm
failing to see what the point in raising this was. Stay focused.
-Jeremy
TrentC2003 <trent...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011215131703...@mb-cl.aol.com...
Jeremy Hall
quote was indeed relevant because in this *very* particular case I think
this band can be defended against sellout accusations for the reasons that
have been exposed. Tool wasn't defending Incubus, WE were, using Tool's
idea. Much like I could use, say, Aenema, to claim that New York is also a
"bullshit three-ring circus sideshow of freaks" without implying that EVERY
city in the world deserves to be flushed away.>
And my argument is that Tool may have been defending bands who are called
"sell-outs" because they got popular. However, both my argument and that of
Jeremy Haik are not based simply on the fact that Incubus got popular. So,
"Hooker with a Penis" which is arguing for the case involving only that a
band got popular, does not apply to Incubus because our further argument is
that they changed their image to become more marketable.
I also agree that this may be them "growing out of" using drugs. We're on
the same page there. I still think they've sacrificed integrity by not
acknowledging that. They just changed their message one day and like I've
relentlessly pointed out, it had a big hand in making them incredibly
popular in the mainstream. Is it totally out of the realm of possibility
that this "growing up" was planned?
-Jeremy
PeeCee EiZ <eiz...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3C1B8C30...@NOSPAMhotmail.com...
Stefen M Romero
Perhaps if you bothered to read my past posts regarding this argument, you
could join in with ALL of the knowledge within this discussion. My argument
on this specifically is that drug usage was a CENTRAL THEME to the band in
the past. Now, they oppose it. I would not have a qualm with this if they
had made a public announcement that they have changed their ideas and
messages: "We had an incredible overnight epiphany where Uriel descended and
told the band that we should not only abandon some of our central themes,
but we should oppose our once strong stance." I have already written this
three times. Just because I raise the concept of drug usage doesn't mean
that I need a band to like drugs for them to be good. I myself am not even
an avid drug usage. I do, however, think that if you have dedicated a good
deal of your art to supporting such a thing, then you have firmly entrenched
yourself in a belief as far as your listeners are concered. Pulling a total
180 without any acknowledgement towards the fact that you have, sacrifices
your artistic integrity. Coincidentally, this change paralleled their
physical and musical change and ALL THREE of these changes just seemed to
match up to the socially acceptable ideals of a wicked pop-rock band!!
-Jeremy<<
I started this thread, of course I read all of your posts. So lets
see........say your seven years old again, and playing with toys........before
you know it you wake up and realize your thirteen and starting junior
high.....your not playing with toys anymore, you've grown out of that
stage.......that's what I think Incubus has gone through.....they've simply
"matured out" of drug references..........does that mean they don't partake in
drug use anymore? no, for all I know, I'm sure they do........but maybe now
their music means more to them than drug references........I haven't caught any
anal sex references on lateralus......yet they were all over prior albums, does
that mean TOOL sold out? No, it IMO simply means they've "matured out" of that
stage, and they're music means more than that nowadays..........I understand
what you're saying and I respect it......just giving my two cents.
-Stefen (still plays with toys)
Jeremy Haik
the
> material that can be logically interperted as durg related, like H. Sober
or
> Third Eye...did they sell out too?
youre comparing apples and oranges...tool's music had (and i think still
does) a drug ELEMENT and with the exception of third eye, but not a
particularly overt one the drug references in tool are more subtle and more
importantly AMBIGUOUS...incubus' music was (before they waxed their assholes
to look pretty on mtv) blatantly referential to drugs and it wasnt a minor
element of the music, it was a MAJOR component of their message as a
band...they were a DRUG band...and you're right, they probably DID grow out
of that phase, BUT in addition to evolving their views and lyrics, they
drastically changed their entire sound, image; theyre not even in the same
genre anymore, and those of you that are arguing that they didnt "sell-out"
as cliche as the term is, are essentially arguing that their sudden and
dramatic rise in success and popularity is entirely coincidental and has
nothing to do with their reconstruction of the band
-jeremy
by the way this thread sucks and whoever started it should be shot...
Jeremy Hall
just stop making drug references, they started speaking against drugs. I
also don't really see how Incubus speaking out drugs can be equated to Tool
not making any anal sex references. Unless you're willing to argue that Tool
promotes anal sex throughout their past albums and has made it a central
theme. I was always under the impression that was a slight piece of humor
while discussing a more serious, unrelated matter.
-Jeremy
Stefen M Romero <stefen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011215133952...@mb-mt.aol.com...
Jeremy Hall
Stefen M Romero <stefen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011215133952...@mb-mt.aol.com...
Stefen M Romero
just stop making drug references, they started speaking against drugs. I
>>also don't really see how Incubus speaking out drugs can be equated to Tool
not making any anal sex references. Unless you're willing to argue that Tool
promotes anal sex throughout their past albums and has made it a central
theme. I was always under the impression that was a slight piece of humor
while discussing a more serious, unrelated matter.
<<
I understand what your saying.......but my whole feeling is.......Incubus was
making killer music then......and they're making killer music now, regardless
of content. But what your saying is that you feel that Incubus pulled a
complete 180 to sell more records.......I can see how you would see that, and
it may be true.....I don't know them. All I can say is that I like theire
music now and their music before so to me it doesn't really matter to me
whether they sold out or not....cause I like the music their making
now......and I'm repeating myself, point made.
-Stefen Stefen.
Stefen M Romero
<<
Yeah, that's my other email addy. I forgot I started it under that SN.
Stefen.
TrentC2003
>"sell-outs" because they got popular. However, both my argument and that of
>Jeremy Haik are not based simply on the fact that Incubus got popular. So,
>"Hooker with a Penis" which is arguing for the case involving only that a
>band got popular, does not apply to Incubus because our further argument is
>that they changed their image to become more marketable.
>
>I also agree that this may be them "growing out of" using drugs. We're on
>the same page there. I still think they've sacrificed integrity by not
>acknowledging that. They just changed their message one day and like I've
>relentlessly pointed out, it had a big hand in making them incredibly
>popular in the mainstream. Is it totally out of the realm of possibility
>that this "growing up" was planned?
>
They don't have to answer to anyone, even the fans. Music is art, and if
someone was questioning my work at every juncture, I would want to hit someone
in the face.
Jeremy Hall
thread pointless and it's completely alright for a band to not give a shit
about their message or their fans. I know I'd respect an "artist" like that.
Personally, I don't value music that's a collection of chords that have been
thrown together without any thought, emotion, or expression and then has
been presented to me with an arrogant "fuck you". Great retort though and
well put too!!
-Jeremy
By the way, thanks for trying to pussy out of the argument instead of not
responding. I mean, this aspect of the thread here has everything to do with
the topic and you haven't caused it to stray at all.
TrentC2003 <trent...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011215164130...@mb-mc.aol.com...
TidalCoil
>> BUT blah blah blaah blahablahhaha
<snip>
Blah blah blahblahalhal!!!
>>Blah blah blah
<snip>
Blah blah blah blah blah blah
Sean
--
-Sean
http://www.geocities.com/Popemaynard81
"So now you see Lonestar, evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
"If you find yourself struggling with loneliness, remember that you are not
alone. And yet you are alone. So very alone"
AMTCode(v2): [Newbie][TĘ][A5][L ][Sx][B+][FM][P][CM]
"Jeremy Hall" <Opiate...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3c1bd5a0$1...@news.toolband.com...
Justin
didn't just stop making drug references, they started speaking against
drugs. I also don't really see how Incubus speaking out drugs can be
equated to Tool not making any anal sex references. Unless you're
willing to argue that Tool promotes anal sex throughout their past
albums and has made it a central theme. I was always under the
impression that was a slight piece of humor while discussing a more
serious, unrelated matter.
-Jeremy
so let me get this staight if and that is a big IF incubus is now
against drugs... that would be wrong? if they grew up and in turn wanted
to clean up, thats bad? but personally i dont think they are against
drugs at all , i beleive are u in? has some drug references. peace. --
justin
Justin
"Will I choose water over wine and hold my own and drive." My mistake,
though.
-Jeremy
i didnt catch where this started from, ive been jumpin over most of the
flames. but is this the lyric you use to for incubus bein anti-drug? im
no genius, but im quite sure that lyric is not literal at all. hes not
actually askin should i chose a sip of water or wine? its like water=
somethin simple or not with the crowd, wine= more materialistic
(expensive) and also with the crowd. its somethin like , i know im not
good at all with the wording though. - justin
Vyxen
news:20011215180649...@mb-ce.aol.com...
Heehee... I like the way you think. :)
This thread has looked a lot like that to me too. *yawn*
--
-vyx ^..^
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Direct Connect a.m.t hub: 12.224.88.177
mudpepper
"Realizedyou" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:582S7.59948$xS6....@www.newsranger.com...
> In article <9v952u$lbs$1...@laurel.tc.umn.edu>, mudpepper says...
> >
> >> mudpepper wrote in message <9v90hn$kbs$1...@laurel.tc.umn.edu>...
> >> >how many posts are there every single damn week about how many
> >> >interpretations every single tool song has and how great maynard is at
> >> >writing words that everyone can take something different from? You
think
> >he
> >> >would just give that up and write an entire song soley about his own
> >band?
> >> >You think he would limit himself that much? Open your eyes man.
> >>
> >> "...who claimed that he was OGT, back in '92 from the first EP."
> >>
> >> "Buy, buy my new record."
> >>
> >> I think the song is indeed about the band and the music they were
making
> >at
> >> that point in time, but it can be extended out to other things beyond
just
> >> that. However, I don't think this situation is one of those situations
> >that
> >> it can be extended to.
> >>
> >> Jimmy
> >>
> >
> >yeah... i know what you mean. I was just saying I dont think the song is
> >limited purely to tool. I know just what everyone is talking about with
> >incubus, and I agree with most of it. However, I dont know their
motivation
> >and neither does anyone else. When you assume things you make an ass of
you
> >and me. People change... sometimes this change gets people more money.
wgaf?
> >if you like old incubus music, go listen to it some more. It's not like
they
> >owe you more of the same. They already gave you what you paid them for.
>
> Well, I do listen to the old stuff, thank you. I never said they owed me
> anything, actually. I'm just disappointed (and I have the right to
be...it is a
> country where I can have an opinion...at least right now, but that's
another
> thread) as a musician about the choices they've made as a band.
>
> Jimmy
>
cool. we're on the same page then. i just hate when people (as frequently
happens in alt.music.weezer) bitch about selling out because they think the
band actually owes their most devoted fans something special. they think the
band should conform to the fans' desires instead of their own. they think
the band should resist change and innovation in favor of catering to a small
group of OGWs, as it were. and yes, sadly, when it comes to weezer people
take being old school very very seriously. it is revered instead of mocked.
so anyway, in short : my apologies for lumping you in with those people.
TrentC2003
>thread pointless
Exactly.
Jeremy Haik
hahahaha im glad we came to this conclusion so quickly...haha
jeremy
TidalCoil
insecure
well. i guess that's good though. it assures us that you're going to
sink with all the other turds now.
i love, miss, and hope you forgive me tami
>I love all the albums, so I don't have to worry about them selling out.