Hope
Moi
it. I know obscured (Brian) hasn't updated his page lately with any new tabs,
but if someone would tab it out, or knows where to find it, I would love to
know, thanks!
*Angela*
"So cry these tears, we'll cry us all, we've held so long, to fall apart, as
the curtian falls, we bid you all goodnight."
-This Time
jero...@hot4yourmail.com
Speaking of Hope, Dave, could you clarify on the dating of it? Or anyone else?
I missed part of the thread on netph., you said you thought it was from 89
or even earlier... so not a siamese dream outtake/demo, and certainly not 93-ish.
Be blissed
Jeroen
Moi <bisqu...@aol.comachina> blasted the airwaves, screaming into the light divine:
Harrison Koehli
> <snip>
>
> Postscript: Before people get up and start calling Hope a
> Marked song, you need to realize that what is on those
> Marked tapes are not necessarily all Marked songs. There
> are a lot of Billy Corgan demos on those tapes--stuff he
> recorded in his father's studio and later brought to his
> new band. My guess is Hope is just one of many
> songs he recorded in '85 and '86.
Thank you for that info, Dave. What you just did is the reason I read amsp.
I love learning about old Billy songs, and such. Would you mind telling us
which of the songs on the 2 Marked tapes were Billy solo songs? I'd like to
make a comprehensive list for myself...
> That being said, I would like to state that I refuse to
> believe there is a studio version of Jesus Loves His Babies,
> and I refuse to believe in the existence of completed versions
> of most of Pastichio Medley.
I refuse to believe Billy lost Methusela, and I highly doubt that there are
any more Adore outtakes... If only that worked more often...
Dave Asselin
says...
>
>
>Speaking of Hope, Dave, could you clarify on the dating of it?
>Or anyone else? I missed part of the thread on netph., you said
>you thought it was from 89 or even earlier... so not a siamese
>dream outtake/demo, and certainly not 93-ish.
OK, first things first: the date of 1993 was an arbitrary date
chosen by me. It was on a tape of other assorted stuff I had
gotten from someone that was fairly easy to date, and the MP
Mayo outtake was also on there, so I gouped them together. The
person who uploaded the song to an FTP got it from me, and
SPFC also got their date from me.
Now, when the MP3 first surfaced, some guitar people on
Netphoria were declaring the track to be a fake because the
use of the ebow was too amateurish for a SD outtake. Some
suggested it sounded like pre-Gish playing. I can't speak
to any of that, as I don't know anything about that stuff.
Now, a few months ago, I was looking through my old text
files and I came across a tracklisting for a tape owned by
one of Billy's high school friends. The tape was given to
him in '86 or '87:
---------------
Pre-Smashing Pumpkin, all tracks by Billy
1. Greta Garbo
2. Vigil
3. Now That I Feel
4. Easy
5. Devotion
6. Mad Say Tongue
7. Now That I Feel Better
8. Vigil (Acoustic version)
9. Rigles
10. Days 13
11. Know You'd Walk
12. Hey!
13. Ring Out the Shadow
14. Tranee
15. Hooh
16. Blind
17. Hope
18. 8 Miles High
19. Passion to Despise
20. Earth Stood Still
21. Mastery and Conjecture
22. Rise and Fall of Passion Cathedral
---------------
I remembered having this text file, and was looking to see
if any of the Marked songs were on it. I was checking off
the ones that Ron Roesing remembered and the ones that are
on that Marked compilation. I went through the list more
than once, and even then I almost missed it: track 17.
Now, the thing is, I don't have this tape, nor can I get
in touch with the guy who does, so I can't speak with 100%
certainity when I say that the instrumental we have and
this track are probably the same. I think the guitar guys
from Netphoria called it right.
Postscript: Before people get up and start calling Hope a
Marked song, you need to realize that what is on those
Marked tapes are not necessarily all Marked songs. There
are a lot of Billy Corgan demos on those tapes--stuff he
recorded in his father's studio and later brought to his
new band. My guess is Hope is just one of many
songs he recorded in '85 and '86.
I also have a *very* strong suspicion that Hope was included
on Still Becoming Apart because it surfaced on the 'net and
its veracity was doubted.
That being said, I would like to state that I refuse to
believe there is a studio version of Jesus Loves His Babies,
and I refuse to believe in the existence of completed versions
of most of Pastichio Medley.
- Dave
--
pmack AT xero DOT com -+- www DOT xero DOT com
jero...@hot4yourmail.com
jero...@hot4yourmail.com
Somehow (I think) my response got into the blue void, so
I'll say it again:
Thanks Dave!
Jeroen
np: May we have a record contract please
sounds *quite* good, this one. a lot of mislabeling though.
the one who loves not hates
>on Still Becoming Apart because it >surfaced on the 'net and
>its veracity was doubted.
I know this sounds stupid, but you're the only one of the few who can prove
that theory. Give it a shot some time though.
>That being said, I would like to state that I >refuse to
>believe there is a studio version of Jesus >Loves His Babies,
>and I refuse to believe in the existence of >completed versions
>of most of Pastichio Medley.
If you wouldn't mind explaining, why don't you think there is a Jesus Loves His
Babies studio? Billy pretty much demos everything no matter how much it sucks.
i.e. chewing gum. You don't think there is a demo sitting around somewhere?
I think that Pastichio Medley was more a gift to the fans than anything.
Something to keep us busy and wondering at all times. Some stuff off of PM is
really good and I wouldn't be surprised if it is used/rearranged in the future.
Regardless, you're the man who should right an SP book.
Tim
Dave Asselin
ih8u...@aol.comiloveHMR says...
>
>>That being said, I would like to state that I refuse to
>>believe there is a studio version of Jesus Loves His Babies,
>>and I refuse to believe in the existence of completed versions
>>of most of Pastichio Medley.
>
>If you wouldn't mind explaining, why don't you think there
>is a Jesus Loves His Babies studio? Billy pretty much demos
>everything no matter how much it sucks. i.e. chewing gum. You
>don't think there is a demo sitting around somewhere?
No, actually, that was the kind of a statement that would have
made more sense if I winked. I *know* there is a JLHB studio
version; it was recorded with Gish, and it's on Mashed Potatoes.
My comment was a play on the initial statement that Hope was
put on the SBA CD because people doubted it was real. I figure
if I publicly doubt the existence of JLHB or the Pastichio
Medley songs (most of which do exist in full-song version,
btw), maybe they'll turn up next.
Dave Asselin
>
>Would you mind telling us which of the songs on the 2
>Marked tapes were Billy solo songs?
I broke the tape down like this. It's really just tentative,
because I have very little info on a lot of this stuff.
---------------------------------
The Marked demos - August 1985; Joliet, IL
The Trance
post-Marked (Billy & Ron Roesing) 1987
Life and Death
Death of a Mind
Pelican (Ron vocals)
Billy & unknown drummer (Ron?)
The Way That I Do
Someone other than Billy on vocals; probably Ron
I Pray For More
Unknown female vocalist
Christmas Song (Dec '85)
I Can't See You
Billy & drum machine w/vocals
8 Miles High [Byrds]
Blind
Didn't Care At All
Pass
Must I Really Love You
Dali Holds the Hand of God
Pictures of Philip
Alone Inside
Murder Mix
A Day at the Circus
Zieg Heil
Fade on Violet
Billy & drum machine instrumentals
Down I Am
As Yet Untitled
Dance Hit #4 (unfinished)
Tears
Tibetian Party
Song for Jonathon
Saturday Morning
The Dream
Cling to Me in Dreamtime
live, date unknown but probably before Aug '86
Mao Say Tongue #1
Mastery & Conjecture
Scary Neurotic Song
live 09.14.86 @ Act IV
Spinning Like a Top
Girl I Never Loved
live 10.01.86 @ Empty Keg
Mao Say Tongue #2
Streetlight
live 10.10.86 @ Act IV
The Dream
No Answer
I Love You
Mastery & Convecture
The Trance
live 10.11.86 @ Act IV
Passion to Desire
Death of a Mind
Sacrifice
Anima Animus
Scary Neurotic Song
Spiteface
Stained Glass Window
Fire [Hendrix]
---------------------------------
>I refuse to believe Billy lost Methusela
You're all in for an enormous surprise very soon.
Keep watching this space for details.
the one who loves not hates
>btw), maybe they'll turn up next.
>
Was G+tGC originally part of the PM then or was it a new song on an old riff?
I know this is a complete shot in the dark, but do you know if HKK was recorded
during the SD session with the version that is now in Dross?
Thanks.
Tim
"Keep in mind, that not only has Ricky Martin had a successful singing career,
but he's also been on broadway, been a Menudo, and a soap star. Which means he
now has enough credits to graduate from Gay University."- Jon Stewart
Chris Hill
Dave Asselin wrote in message ...
<snip cool ino>
Thanks Dave, that's good stuff.
>That being said, I would like to state that I refuse to
>believe there is a studio version of Jesus Loves His Babies,
>and I refuse to believe in the existence of completed versions
>of most of Pastichio Medley.
There is no studio Speed, there is no studio Speed, there is no studio Speed
<crosses fingers>
Chris Hill
Andrew Schutz
I would have to agree with Harrison. Info like this is why I
read AMSP. I've been a fan since around '95 and lurked here on
and off since about '97 or so, and things like this are one of
the main reasons I'm still interested in this band. Thanks to
you and everyone else who continues to search out information and
tapes and keeps this newsgroup interesting.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Technologically Superior
>
>>I refuse to believe Billy lost Methusela
>
>You're all in for an enormous surprise very soon.
Woo hoo..for once I know something that not many other people do.
-Troy
ryan patrick
>There is no studio Speed, there is no studio Speed, there is no studio Speed
now that i know what's going on, i'd like to agree.
there is no possible way that this song exists in a finalized form, the lyrics
were different on 2.21 and 2.28 so i doubt billy ever figured upon a way to
record it. that was probably just a jam excerpt in the PM.
and i dare billy to prove me wrong on this point.
i'd also like to support dave asselin in his application that Jesus Loves His
Babies doesn't exist. there's just no way, i mean, they didn't have much money
in Gish sessions, why record a bunch of outtakes? and only playing a song once
live..? very un-billy!
oh and 8.10.88 doesn't exist, by the way, i made it up. neither do the other
30 or so hidden 89 demos. they were my concoction.
and the tracklisting to MP was made up by me too. you think songs like STP and
Opal Worship really exist? hah. and what about Chump. so what if people in
trading circles claim to have it - i don't, so it can't exist.
i'm getting carried away.
Ryan|Patrick
-
we are the machines
we speak this dream
we come between the seams
we are the machines of god
-
"oh, ok" - billy corgan
ryan patrick
>Woo hoo..for once I know something that not many other people do.
not for long, though.
a wise old man, a wise young fool. i suppose that makes sense as to the title.
and "father never quite grew up, he just grew old"
Ryan|Patrick _ np : it's a secret
ryan patrick
>Ryan|Patrick
>-
>we are the machines
> we speak this dream
> we come between the seams
> we are the machines of god
>-
>"oh, ok" - billy corgan
gee that's an annoying sig, i forgot i had it. i was just bored and messing
around.
anyway i'll just keep it short and confusing.
Ryan|Patrick
-
"oh, ok" - billy corgan
-
Harrison Koehli
> Zieg Hiel
> Fade on Violet
>
> Billy & drum machine instrumentals
> Down I Am
> As Yet Untitled
> Dance Hit #4 (unfinished)
> Tears
> Tibetian Party
> Song for Jonathon
> Saturday Morning
> The Dream
> Cling to Me in Dreamtime
>
> live, date unknown but probably before Aug '86
> Mao Say Tongue #1
> Mastery & Conjecture
> Scary Neurotic Song
>
> live 09.14.86 @ Act IV
> Spinning Like a Top
> Girl I Never Loved Not Billy's song
>
> live 10.01.86 @ Empty Keg
> Mao Say Tongue #2
> Streetlight Co-written
>
> live 10.10.86 @ Act IV
> The Dream
> No Answer Not Billy's song
> I Love You
> Mastery & Convecture
> The Trance Isn't this 10.11.86?
>
> live 10.11.86 @ Act IV
> Passion to Desire
> Death of a Mind
> Sacrifice
> Anima Animus Co-written
> Scary Neurotic Song
> Spiteface
> Stained Glass Window
> Fire [Hendrix]
Once again, thank you. I've made some notes....
Chris Hill
ryan patrick wrote in message
<20000422143547...@ng-ba1.aol.com>...
>troy
>
>>Woo hoo..for once I know something that not many other people do.
>
>not for long, though.
>
>a wise old man, a wise young fool. i suppose that makes sense as >to the
title. and "father never quite grew up, he just grew old"
Oooh! Oooh! <raises hand>. Can I guess? Can I play?
Chris Hill, who thinks he knows what's going on
Technologically Superior
>
>not for long, though.
Well yeah, but being as horribly out of the loop as I am, to find out about
this a week ago is pretty nifty. I'm never privvy to inside info.
-Troy
Dave Asselin
>
>Dave Asselin wrote:
>
>> The Trance Isn't this 10.11.86?
Yep, my mistake.