What is Smooth Jazz?
slot
have been pressing for the purpose of having something to squabble
over.
So, for people from either camp, I'm providing here a list of links to
sites that discuss smooth jazz as a style and as part of jazz history.
http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:4447
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/articles/jazz0802.htm
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/library/smooth.htm
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/iviews/mouzon.htm?no_auto=1
http://www.apassion4jazz.net/jazz_styles2.html
http://www.jazzinamerica.org/lp_o.asp?LPOrder=7
http://www.unr.edu/nevadanews/detail.aspx?id=174
Jack A. Zucker
It's certainly not straight ahead but there are some great grooves on his
records.
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"slot" <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148900473.8...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
pmfan57
Is there an in between? Anyway, there is certainly funk grooved music
with improvisation that is really good. Sanborn is a good example.
And "smooth jazz" stations play it. But the smooth loving poster seems
to think that jazz has now evolved into smooth jazz and we should get
with the program. In fact, most "smooth jazz" is jazz lite, or has no
elements of jazz.
As for "smooth vs. PMG." Listen to some of Chuck Loeb's attempts at
the PMG sound in the 80's. Loeb is actually an accomplished jazz
player, but those CD's are musical wallpaper compared to the models on
which they are based.
Pt
Jack A. Zucker wrote:
> So how about David Sanborn? Junk or great music?
>
> It's certainly not straight ahead but there are some great grooves on his
> records.
>
I liked what I heard of him.
I saw him play with Clapton and Sheryl Crow in concert (on TV) and I
thought he screwed up pretty bad.
I was surprised at that.
Pt
Joe Finn
news:Hv2dnYTSsfd...@adelphia.com...
> So how about David Sanborn? Junk or great music?
>
> It's certainly not straight ahead but there are some great grooves on his
> records.
You've nailed one of the key distinctions right there. "Smooth" is generally
a groove oriented backbeat style with even eighths. It features players like
Sanborn who are coming out of the r&b tradition.
People ask me about smooth jazz now and then, but I just say I prefer jazz
with lumps, chunks and other in consistencies. .........joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
geekg...@aol.com
Jazz..."soooo chunky I can eat it with a fork!"
--Eric Elias
Gerry
pmfan57 <jwra...@aol.com> wrote:
> As for "smooth vs. PMG." Listen to some of Chuck Loeb's attempts at
> the PMG sound in the 80's. Loeb is actually an accomplished jazz
> player, but those CD's are musical wallpaper compared to the models on
> which they are based.
I've never heard anything by Loeb that impressed me. Very sleepy
music. But he certainly has some skill. Are there recordings where he
makes use of these skills?
--
(random signature)
Gerry
slot <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Some folks have been asking, seemingly out of genuine interest. Others
> have been pressing for the purpose of having something to squabble
> over.
Still others want to have good-faith discussions.
> So, for people from either camp, I'm providing here a list of links to
> sites that discuss smooth jazz as a style and as part of jazz history.
>
> http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:4447
> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/articles/jazz0802.htm
> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/library/smooth.htm
> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/iviews/mouzon.htm?no_auto=1
> http://www.apassion4jazz.net/jazz_styles2.html
> http://www.jazzinamerica.org/lp_o.asp?LPOrder=7
> http://www.unr.edu/nevadanews/detail.aspx?id=174
That you. I read all these articles, just now, and I've been educated
in no way whatever constituting the utility of this marketing niche.
That is, in fact, how it repeatedly is considered in almost every
article, directly or implicitly.
I note this in your last url from the Nevada News:
> [Musican and educator, David] Ake notes that even the word "jazz" has
> an appeal thatąs used to label genres such as "smooth jazz," or "acid
> jazz," and that a jazz connection is often used to market upscale
> products such as luxury cars.
Precisely. And in a number of the descriptions they say it isn't really
jazz per se. So much for the faulty *name* "smooth jazz". That doesn't
really say anything about how it sounds or what aural utility it has,
though.
> Sophisticated, complex Śartą music - Americaąs classical music;
> thatąs been the spin put on it by some folks like Wynton Marsalis,"
> Ake says. Trumpeter Marsalis, a consultant for the Ken Burns series,
> has been extremely influential in shaping the popular notion of jazz
> as a "serious" music. Ake is quick to point out that jazz was the
> popular music of America 50 years ago - a fact that is often glossed
> over.
>
> Some musicians and writers want to distance themselves from that
> aspect of the past, moving away from the entertainment thing," Ake
> says. "But their stance erases a whole segment of the musicąs
> history. A lot of jazz gets ignored because itąs a little too
> popular."
Though what he says is true, it's not a matter of "musicians and
writers distancing themselves". It's a matter of what constitutes
popular art and what makes some sort of lasting impression in
overarching culture. Musicians didn't have make a conscious decision
to "distance" themselves from Rudy Vallee, Teresa Brewer, Paul Whiteman
or Connie Frances. They just went away.
Popular art, whether music, fiction, or movies is *disposable art*.
It's like newspapers; fundamental and critical today and irrelevant
tomorrow. Newspapers don't morph into history books. Historians pick
what they think is history and cobble the book together later. Those
elements that they don't consider noteworthy but that the people do,
eventually get hammered back in whether the historians preferred it or
otherwise.
Same with fiction writers: Surely no one could guess that curious and
opaque William Faulkner would become a demi-god and that demi-god John
Dos Passos would be forgotten. Bird and 'Trane were nowhere near the
popular successes that myriad, forgettable, pop artists were during
their time. Where is Dick Haymes or Doris Day in the history of jazz or
music? Nowhere. And the pop instrumentalists of their day? Even
further into the mist of memory. And they were very successful in their
time. Their music was, in essence, disposable. In one or two
generations they were of no value to anyone.
The same cannot be said, however, of Sinatra, Elvis, the Beatles--all
very successful pop artists. But who knew that Bing Crosby would dry
up and blow away? And that Billie Holiday would not? Amazing. Tony
Bennett suddnely looks like he'll have legs, but Mel Torme is almost
forgotten already.
That's how it goes. If the next generation wants or needs an artist
from the past they will pick them out and drag them along. That can be
said of anybody in the grunge-rock, punk-rock, new-wave, glam-rock,
metal, death-metal, goth-rock or even smooth goth-metal-death-rock.
Somebody out there wants to deify Iggy Pop and Kurt Cobain. Cool.
We'll see if their kids will. I'm guessing not. And I'm guessing also
that musicians won't even consider it.
If "smooth jazz" had an identifiable personality it might make it
further down the pop-culture street, but it almost seems important that
the music is so "relaxed" and unobtrusive and passionless that nobody
WANTS a name to distinguish themselves. If you music gets too much
attention--well isn't that a bad thing "stylistically"?
My wife asks if it isn't just muzak (tm), a commercially-engineered and
designed environmental wash, that's intended for a newer generation.
The sound of overly lush and generally predicatable strings, vibes,
trombone ensembles, double-reeds--these are the sounds of a previous
time. So intead we have "hip" synthesized versions of the same stuff,
colorful and over-refined in the same kind of way--but with heavy
compression, chorus and EQ. If we had the older instrumentation, as
antiquated as these orchestrations and arrangments are, it would be
noticeable and therefore not a discreet "environmental enhancement".
In the end I don't find smoothjazz much of a popular style of music, so
much as an environmental utility. I'd *rather* have this stuff on the
radio at the dentist's office or in upscale stores (and those are the
kinds of places I find it) because I don't want to listen to music
there, I want to read or shop in relaxation. I don't want to think or
consider or "be moved".
That's a hell of a request to make of even a popular art-form: that it
be translucent, forgettable, nor pique our emotions or interest.
--
(random signature)
Gerry
<J...@JoeFinn.net> wrote:
> People ask me about smooth jazz now and then, but I just say I prefer jazz
> with lumps, chunks and other in consistencies.
Good one. Consider it stolen. I prefer mine with bits of bone and
horn in it.
--
(random signature)
decapr...@hotmail.com
normally to attract consumers who usually do not dig straight-ahead
jazz. Most smooth jazz has a glorified rock, funk, or new agey
underpinning from the drums and bass. You will hear very little walking
going on, which is cool if you dig that most of the time. As a plus,
the music often uses more interesting progressions, albeit sparse,
and/or voicings not often heard in Pop music. Smooth Jazz situations
often employ straight-ahead players blowing over the said underpinning.
Is the way I see it.
TD
googledawg
no improvisation -a few extended chords, not much alteration.
danceable, sorta - semi-funk, but not too much.
last radio station hear to play smooth jazz found a bigger audience
airing rush limbaugh. and that's probably NOT because this is the
midwest.
they couldn't get sponsors - what are the demographics?
i guess if i was held prisoner somewhere and there were a choice
between smoojazz and rush limbaugh, i might switch back and forth once
in a while.
JAZZ jazz has got some cornbread to it. even drawn-out major sevenths
held against a dominant 13th - THAT will curl your toes a little!
and two horns both playing alMOST a flat-and-half third. You heard it
first HERE folks!
elevator jazz is better than dentist-office violins for elevators i
guess, or shopping malls. or----hmm, well, not video game
backgrounds, not coffee houses, not .....not not...
Kid Kool
> Some folks have been asking, seemingly out of genuine interest. Others
> have been pressing for the purpose of having something to squabble
> over.
And some people are desperate for attention, which is why they
crosspost everywhere.
Smooth jazz is a marketing buzzword for easy listening instrumental
music. People who insist on the value of smooth jazz are desperate to
be hip, but lack the intellectual acumen and attention span to listen
to real music. They'll lie to aver they have listened to a lot of real
music, but they're tone deaf. What they have is a couple of
subscriptions to jazz magazines, an overpriced sound system, and a
desperate need to appear hip. If you like easy listening instrumental
music, that's fine. And Kenny G is a fine pop musician: you only have
to look at his sales figures to know that. And if you need to insist
that it's real jazz, you go right ahead. One day you might learn to
play an instrument, you might get a gig, and you'll likely get laughed
off the stand. Then your opinion might have some value.
Joe Finn
news:1148927367....@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Another slick marketing device used as a workable phrase and category
> normally to attract consumers who usually do not dig straight-ahead
> jazz. Most smooth jazz has a glorified rock, funk, or new agey
> underpinning from the drums and bass. You will hear very little walking
> going on, which is cool if you dig that most of the time. As a plus,
> the music often uses more interesting progressions, albeit sparse,
> and/or voicings not often heard in Pop music. Smooth Jazz situations
> often employ straight-ahead players blowing over the said underpinning.
> Is the way I see it.
>
> TD
That's a pretty good description. I would only add that smooth jazz is only
the latest in a long succession of marketing efforts designed to bring the
sophistication and cache of the word "jazz" to a broader demographic. On a
musical level it doesn't work very well but I suppose there's a buck to be
made in the process.
Like they say, "follow the money...". ..........joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
>
>
>
>
>
> slot wrote:
>> Some folks have been asking, seemingly out of genuine interest. Others
>> have been pressing for the purpose of having something to squabble
>> over.
>>
>> So, for people from either camp, I'm providing here a list of links to
>> sites that discuss smooth jazz as a style and as part of jazz history.
>>
>> http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:4447
>> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/articles/jazz0802.htm
>> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/library/smooth.htm
>> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/iviews/mouzon.htm?no_auto=1
>> http://www.apassion4jazz.net/jazz_styles2.html
>> http://www.jazzinamerica.org/lp_o.asp?LPOrder=7
>> http://www.unr.edu/nevadanews/detail.aspx?id=174
>
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
slot
Gerry wrote:
>
> I note this in your last url from the Nevada News:
>
> > [Musican and educator, David] Ake notes that even the word "jazz" has
> > an appeal that¹s used to label genres such as "smooth jazz," or "acid
> > jazz," and that a jazz connection is often used to market upscale
> > products such as luxury cars.
>
> Precisely.
Seems you missed the more important quote, which is this:
"My definition of jazz is: everything that anyone's ever called
jazz," he says. "Jazz isn't one big thing, that's why the title of
the book is plural. In fact, jazz isn't a thing at all; it's an
activity involving people. So, I wanted to look at these various jazz
communities and see why they form."
slot
Kid Kool wrote:
> People who insist on the value of smooth jazz are desperate to
> be hip, but lack the intellectual acumen and attention span to listen
> to real music.
Then you haven't met many smooth jazz fans. And you certainly haven't
met me.
> What they have is a couple of
> subscriptions to jazz magazines,
I have none.
> an overpriced sound system,
Mine's is relatively cheap.
> and a desperate need to appear hip.
Hip, shmip. It's about the music.
zoot
and it could be vocal [ simply red, sharday]. it is created like any
pop music. someone writes the charts employing all the flavor of the
day devices and hires a studio and some session players. they know what
they are going to end up with before they start. they go till they get
it right. no adventure at all and hopefully no surprises. it takes
weeks to get everything just so.
jazz on the other hand is when like minded musicians get together in
search of "a moment" and they feed off of each others ideas to find it.
it is an adventure born of curiosity. jazz can actually be pretty bad
and still get the participants off [which is really what it is for].
recording jazz happens in real time.
i think this and the jazz news group are supposed to be for people who
get that so any of these conversations are just for feeding the troll.
Gerry
<jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I note this in your last url from the Nevada News:
> >
> > > [Musican and educator, David] Ake notes that even the word "jazz" has
> > > an appeal that零 used to label genres such as "smooth jazz," or "acid
> > > jazz," and that a jazz connection is often used to market upscale
> > > products such as luxury cars.
> >
> > Precisely.
>
>
> Seems you missed the more important quote, which is this:
>
> "My definition of jazz is: everything that anyone's ever called
> jazz," he says. "Jazz isn't one big thing, that's why the title of
> the book is plural. In fact, jazz isn't a thing at all; it's an
> activity involving people. So, I wanted to look at these various jazz
> communities and see why they form."
All true: So if the "jazz connection" employed for marketing smoothjazz
(first quote above) for radio-format use, was jazz it would be part of
a "jazz community". Sadly it is not. But it still makes that car look
hip!
--
(random signature)
Fiona Abrahami
"slot" <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Some folks have been asking...
Smooth is to jazz what graphic design is to fine art.
Smooth is to jazz what soap operas are to Shakespeare.
Smooth is to jazz what cartoons are to literature.
Smooth is to jazz what Sun Myung Moon is to Moses.
But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and politically
is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency of the
African-American voice. Smooth jazz is not the sophisticated gentleman
smooth fans think, it is a eunuch keeping white society safe by sanitizing
and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally challenging.
Fiona
fvndoc
"Fiona Abrahami" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e5hb5f$o12$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
Er yes, 100 million dead negroes later and the end game is Kenny G. You
really have your finger on the pulse.
Greger Hoel
<fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and politically
>is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency of the
>African-American voice. Smooth jazz is not the sophisticated gentleman
>smooth fans think, it is a eunuch keeping white society safe by sanitizing
>and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally challenging.
And what's next? It was really neither the Jews nor the Romans who
killed Jesus, it was smooth jazz!
--
_______________________________________________
"I'll take any scrap from any table that bears the name
Bickert. I'd buy an album of him mowing the lawn."
-Gerry
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thom_j.
> And what's next? It was really neither the Jews nor the Romans who
> killed Jesus, it was smooth jazz!
a plethora of useless knowledge tee'...
fvndoc
"Greger Hoel" <gre...@spammersgetbent.net> wrote in message
news:2rco72ph19smshgoq...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 30 May 2006 12:43:39 +0100, "Fiona Abrahami"
> <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and politically
>>is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency of the
>>African-American voice. Smooth jazz is not the sophisticated gentleman
>>smooth fans think, it is a eunuch keeping white society safe by sanitizing
>>and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally challenging.
>
> And what's next? It was really neither the Jews nor the Romans who
> killed Jesus, it was smooth jazz!
Yes but who killed Kenny Gsus?
moma...@gmu.edu
wood--it's made out of bits and pieces of the real thing, jumbled
together and bound by plasticizers and glue. It's cheap, uniform,
predictable, flimsy, and serviceable but a poor substitute for the real
thing.
by all means, if you prefer to surround yourself with particle board
furniture go ahead. Ikea has lots of it and it's cheap and easy to
find, just like the smooth jazz station on your fm radio
ST
> Yes but who killed Kenny Gsus?
He didn't die, just resolved into another entity (Cmaj7).
googledawg
schmoojazz, but instead He said "You will do greater things than I".
it guess it's up to us.
BTW, i bleve that the nashville version of the KennyGsus resolution
was a two bar vocal/steel Cadd6. but, that's a different religion,
same roots, but just a little different doctrine.
RickH
Yes, that cheap Scandinavian furniture that falls apart the first time
you have to move it to a different apartment. All slick on the
outside, but pure crap in it's construction.
Kid Kool
Fiona Abrahami wrote:
> But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and politically
> is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency of the
> African-American voice. Smooth jazz is not the sophisticated gentleman
> smooth fans think, it is a eunuch keeping white society safe by sanitizing
> and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally challenging.
Very well stated.
saxbetel
is a eunuch keeping white society safe by sanitizing
and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally
challenging."
Amen. But like all disposable pop culture, it, too, will pass. In the
meantime don't listen to it if you don't like it. Actually, I dislike
it so much, I'll walk out of a store just to avoid it. Without a new
drill bit. (And the marketers think that kind of pabulum puts you in
the mood to buy!)
Scott Tissue
"Kid Kool" <kidk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149017398.8...@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
No it's not very well stated you nincompoop. It's racist twaddle. Smooth
jazz has absolutely nothing to do with the "potency" of African Americans
except in the Mandingo fever swamps where Fiona evidently resides. Smooth
jazz is real jazz dumbed down for dumb people. Which,. let's face it, is
nearly everyone, white, brown, or yellow, e.g., you and Fiona. Just like Tom
Clancy is dumbed down literature and Rod McKuen and the Desiderata is dumbed
down poetry and Friends is dumbed down theater and Andy Warhol is dumbed
down painting. It's crap for mulletheads who are only barely capable of
appreciating crap. I suppose Arthur Fielder and John Williams are eunuchs
keeping white America safe from the potency of nasty old Germans like
Beethoven and Brahms, eh?
googledawg
"sponsored links" directly to the right of this forum as we speak:
Smooth Jazz Ringtone
Send this ringtone to your phone
right now, at no charge!
spicymint.com
Smooth Jazz Cruise
Cabins Now on Sale.
January 28, 2007 - Join Us!
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Smoothjazz.Com - Where Smooth Meets Jazz
[Monterey Bay, California] Offers streaming Internet
Online Smooth jazz Radio Station - Live365 Internet Radio - Soft ...
www.live365.com
Smooth Jazz 98.1
[San Diego, California] "The Breeze."
www.kifm.com
as you may have heard, "they" can actually see into our living rooms
and offices through the silver screen in the corner - they have been
listening to us for years now on the telephone system. but computers
are even better, because they can LINK US with all this associated
conversation.
a little like senator McCarthy asking "so you actually DO know how to
spell 'communist'?
not that there's any implied comparison or connection here.....
so you admit, you actually DO know the call letters of those stations,
is that right? you know all about "the breeze" don't you? and you
HAVE listened to this stuff, haven't you? as a matter of fact, you
can probably even NAME some of the songs, can't you?
etc etc.
Christopher von Volborth
"Scott Tissue" <x...@yyy.com> wrote in message
news:xl2fg.8915$8G3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Even more eloquently stated, although I would not have thrown Arthur Fiedler
or John Williams into this argument. What amazes me is no one seems to
recognize the more than occasional role European and Jewish music have
played in the evolution of jazz. Jazz is not uniquely African-American,
rather, it is and always has been the result of multi-cultural musical
synthesis......although I do like Fiona's equating smooth jazz with a
eunuch-like apparition.
As a post script, yes, we live in aworld of dumbed down art for the masses.
Effective marketing dictates that the masses, e.g. mediocrity, determine
esthetic standards. It's a shame, but the idea is to make money, not
promulgate beauty. We live in an age of suburban sprawl blues and American
Idol soul. Yecchhh!!!
Chris
www.cdbaby.com/vonvolborth
Fiona Abrahami
"Scott Tissue" <x...@yyy.com> wrote
> "Kid Kool" <kidk...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > Fiona Abrahami wrote:
> >
> >> But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and
> >> politically
> >> is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency of
the
> >> African-American voice. Smooth jazz is not the sophisticated gentleman
> >> smooth fans think, it is a eunuch keeping white society safe by
> >> sanitizing
> >> and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally
> >> challenging.
> >
> >
> > Very well stated.
>
> Americans
Exactly...
...Ergo, it is not jazz, because jazz *is* the voice of the African-American
people.
Fiona
slot
Fiona Abrahami wrote:
>
> ...Ergo, it is not jazz, because jazz *is* the voice of the African-American
> people.
>
Perhaps it used to be, but I'd say hip-hop is far more vital than jazz
in large portions of the balck community.
slot
Fiona Abrahami wrote:
>
> But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and politically
> is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency of the
> African-American voice.
Whew.
What a stink _you've_ let off. Wipe yourself off and then clean up
your mess before you leave, will you.
slot
Gerry wrote:
> In article <1148952100....@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, slot
> <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > I note this in your last url from the Nevada News:
> > >
> > > > [Musican and educator, David] Ake notes that even the word "jazz" has
> > > > jazz," and that a jazz connection is often used to market upscale
> > > > products such as luxury cars.
> > >
> > > Precisely.
> >
> >
> > Seems you missed the more important quote, which is this:
> >
> > "My definition of jazz is: everything that anyone's ever called
> > jazz," he says. "Jazz isn't one big thing, that's why the title of
> > the book is plural. In fact, jazz isn't a thing at all; it's an
> > activity involving people. So, I wanted to look at these various jazz
> > communities and see why they form."
>
> All true: So if the "jazz connection" employed for marketing smoothjazz
> (first quote above) for radio-format use, was jazz it would be part of
> a "jazz community". Sadly it is not. But it still makes that car look
> hip!
>
Of course, it is. You say its not simply by drawing a narrow circle
and excluding it. But the author's definiftion of jazz is "everything
that anyone's ever called jazz." As smooth jazz fans refer to the
music as jazz, then by this author's definition jazz it is.
slot
What you forget is that jazz itself is particle board, made up of bits
and peices of musical traditions from Europe and Africa. Smooth jazz
is just another shuffling and rearrangement of the pieces.
slot
Now, Gerry, here's a guy who knows what smooth jazz is, knows it when
he hears it. (Presuming, of course, that he's not confusing smooth
jazz with something else, which seems to happen to quite a few people
in this ng.)
slot
Scott Tissue wrote:
> "Kid Kool" <kidk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1149017398.8...@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Fiona Abrahami wrote:
> >
> >> But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and
> >> politically
> >> is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency of the
> >> African-American voice. Smooth jazz is not the sophisticated gentleman
> >> smooth fans think, it is a eunuch keeping white society safe by
> >> sanitizing
> >> and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally
> >> challenging.
> >
> >
> > Very well stated.
>
> No it's not very well stated you nincompoop. It's racist twaddle.
Ah, some fresh air. Thanks for blownin' in and wipin' up, Scott
Tissue.
Fiona Abrahami
Fiona Abrahami
"slot" <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > >
> > >> But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and
> > >> politically
> > >> is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency of
the
> > >> African-American voice. Smooth jazz is not the sophisticated
gentleman
> > >> smooth fans think, it is a eunuch keeping white society safe by
> > >> sanitizing
> > >> and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally
> > >> challenging.
> > >
> > > Very well stated.
> >
> > No it's not very well stated you nincompoop. It's racist twaddle.
>
> Ah, some fresh air. Thanks for blownin' in and wipin' up, Scott
> Tissue.
Yeah, cracka, you'd know all about whippin.
Fiona
Chickenhead
newsgroup. Show us some of your clips.
Spam and troll all you want, but no one's going to take you seriously if you
don't demonstrate that you can play.
Also, the regulars here use our real names or, as in the case of say myself,
Five Sharp, oasysco, and pmfan57, we make it pretty easy to figure out who
we are. Dropping in and stinkin' up the joint without putting your name on
the line and/or showing some clips is getting you known around here as a
wuss and not someone to be taken seriously. There's nationally known giants
showing up here, so, unless you happen to be George Benson, there's really
no excuse.
"slot" <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149033921.7...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> What you forget is that jazz itself . . .
[snip]
Greg Evans
> As smooth jazz fans refer to the music as jazz, then by
> this author's definition jazz it is.
"It is because we say it is." Yessiree slot, you've certainly got an
airtight and logically unassailable theory, there.
slot
Fiona Abrahami
slot
It's not my theory, its the one proposed by the author of the book
we're discussing. Take a minute to familiarize yourself with the
topic.
slot
Is this the African American voice to which you referred earlier?
Greg Evans
The theory that you just got done espousing. Take a minute to familiarize
yourself with the rules of logic and inference.
Then shut up anyway.
Chickenhead
Your opinion regarding what is "smooth jazz" is worthless on this newsgroup
at this point for the reasons outlined in my previous post. I'm not
changing the topic; rather, since you are preposing to be an expert on this
subject, I am questioning your qualifications.
This group is for players and musicians, not bullshit.
"slot" <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149037726.9...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
slot
me. I'll leave you to it.
moma...@gmu.edu
no, it's not--it's an entirely different product, made like particle
board of glue (reverb and easy pseudo funk vamps) and massive amounts
of studio compression so there are no dynamics. There's a big
difference between a stew, bubbling spicy and hot, and a slab of
off-gassing particle board. But if you like smooth jazz, then I'm not
surprised you don't see it
Barry Isaac Levine
<add...@domain.com.invalid> wrote:
> That's a hell of a request to make of even a popular art-form: that it
> be translucent, forgettable, nor pique our emotions or interest.
Individual artists may create popular art that is unforgettable and/or moves
us deeply. For example, Shakespeare and Dickens were writing popular art. As
were songwriters like the Rodgers & Hart, Lennon & McCartney.
If some of the smooth jazz artists of whom "slot" is so fond were capable of
creating unforgettable music, they would. After all, popular art that is
unforgettable sells even better than popular art that is forgettable. (So
far, I haven't heard anything of interest yet from those artists he's touted
that I checked out. If good music is like good bread, this stuff is
"wonderbread".)
Fiona is right to discuss America's racial sickness as it has affected the
development of our popular culture, whether or not some agree with her
choice of metaphor. Anyone who doesn't understand this should watch the Ken
Burns jazz series, for a start.
"Scott Tissue" writes: "Smooth jazz has absolutely nothing to do with the
"potency" of African Americans". My response is: if jazz is Dinah
Washington, smooth jazz is Doris Day. Can you dig it?
It's a matter of historical development, how did we get here? Then again,
what do I expect from someone who calls him/herself Scott Tissue? So nice,
clean, sanitary. Elsewhere in the world, there's no clean water to drink.
Here, we can't live without handi-wipes.
But I think a current analysis of mass culture (which smooth jazz
exemplifies) has to go beyond the racial aspect. To borrow and alter Fiona's
words: The media oligopoly is a eunuch keeping society safe by sanitizing
or removing ANYTHING intellectually or emotionally challenging.
Barry Levine
--
delete the spam to contact me.
--
my sax stuff: http://users.norwoodlight.com/barrylevine/
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Gerry
slot <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Of course, it is. You say its not simply by drawing a narrow circle
> and excluding it.
How right you are. I would draw that circle around Hank Williams and
Herman's Hermits too. I guess that would be naughty, huh?
> But the author's definiftion of jazz is "everything that anyone's
> ever called jazz."
Anybody with a face gets to define jazz? Speak it and it is so? What a
small enclave you've retired to for your last stuttering arguments.
> As smooth jazz fans refer to the music as jazz, then by this author's
> definition jazz it is.
Okay, that's one font of information we can disregard as not really
meaningful. I'm still waiting for your "definition" of this "style".
Citing such a definition for style is crippled logic.
You sure do dig up a lot of your pocket-lint to use as leverage in this
discussions.
--
(random signature)
Chickenhead
clips, no respect.
"slot" <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149039032.3...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Edward Branham
>>
>>Perhaps it used to be, but I'd say hip-hop is far more vital than jazz
>>in large portions of the balck community.
>
>
> Hip-hop is a descendant of the black jazz tradition.
yup - and rap is a descendant of talking blues in the delta tradition
zoot
zoot wrote:
> smooth jazz is just a buzz word for adult contemporary wallpaper music
> and it could be vocal [ simply red, sharday]. it is created like any
> pop music. someone writes the charts employing all the flavor of the
> day devices and hires a studio and some session players. they know what
> they are going to end up with before they start. they go till they get
> it right. no adventure at all and hopefully no surprises. it takes
> weeks to get everything just so.
> jazz on the other hand is when like minded musicians get together in
> search of "a moment" and they feed off of each others ideas to find it.
> it is an adventure born of curiosity. jazz can actually be pretty bad
> and still get the participants off [which is really what it is for].
> recording jazz happens in real time.
> i think this and the jazz news group are supposed to be for people who
> get that so any of these conversations are just for feeding the troll.
like i said
zoot
nope
[c] rap is the descendant of little girls jumping rope [pretty much all
the music input an amerikan kid gets now that the country has been
taken over by greedy bastards that don't support the arts or even keep
it in the schools]
Scott Tissue
"Fiona Abrahami" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e5ik1n$jq7$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
You are a silly, shallow, pretentious pseudo intellectual dope. The belief
that the "cultural, historical, and political" experience of an entire race
can be distilled into a single archetype is absurd. The expression of that
ridiculous idea in stark and pernicious racist terms -- evidently both you
and the Grand Klagon of Mississippi believe that darkies got rhythm and big
scary penises -- is despicable. And your ignorance of the rich and varied
cultural and social traditions of African Americans is sad and pathetic.
Scott Tissue
Very realistic patois. Is that how the coloreds talk in Derbyshire?
Fiona Abrahami
"Scott Tissue" <x...@yahoo.com> wrote
> "Fiona Abrahami" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote
Your making a hell of a lot of stupid false assumptions there, Snott.
Interesting isn't it how whenever fools have no intelligent argument their
response is to resort to personal insults? As for big penises I can tell you
from simple logic that half the black population of the world ain't even got
small ones.
Btw, shouldn't your false address be x...@kkk.com? Oh, and for the record,
you should know I've also reported you to Abuse at Road Runner for the
offensive nature of the above post.
Fiona
Fiona Abrahami
> >> Scott Tissue wrote:
> >> > "Kid Kool" <kidk...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> > > Fiona Abrahami wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> But what smooth really represents culturally, historically and
> >> > >> politically
> >> > >> is the endgame of the process aimed at neutralising of the potency
> >> > >> of the
> >> > >> African-American voice. Smooth jazz is not the sophisticated
> > gentleman
> >> > >> smooth fans think, it is a eunuch keeping white society safe by
> >> > >> sanitizing
> >> > >> and removing from jazz anything intellectually or emotionally
> >> > >> challenging.
> >> > >
> >> > > Very well stated.
> >> >
> >> > No it's not very well stated you nincompoop. It's racist twaddle.
> >>
> >> Ah, some fresh air. Thanks for blownin' in and wipin' up, Scott
> >> Tissue.
> >
> > Yeah, cracka, you'd know all about whippin.
>
> Very realistic patois. Is that how the coloreds talk in Derbyshire?
Try Leeds.
Tom K
"zoot" <aba...@ns-design.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1149075658.7...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
as a vehicle for great music in the big continuum of jazz, and it's reaching
back to earlier stiles as mentioned above . I've got this LP with The Golden
Gate Quartet, recordings from the late 30's. Their "The Preacher and the
Bear" is instantly recognizeable rap, with one of their trademark a cappelle
rhytmepatterns driving the thing.
That said I repeat that most of contemporary rap leaves me cold or/and
irritated.
Scott Tissue
I'm not making any assumptions hon. I'm reading your words and responding to
them. Perhaps if you were a better writer? Not to mention a tad less
ill-informed.
> Snott.
>
> Interesting isn't it how whenever fools have no intelligent argument their
> response is to resort to personal insults?
Fans of irony take note.
> As for big penises I can tell you
> from simple logic that half the black population of the world ain't even
> got
> small ones.
We're not discussing "half the black population of the world" and their
penises dear. We're discussing your reducing black American culture to
having good rhythm and being "potent." Because besides the fact that it's
ignorant and vulgar, similar reductions invariably ended with black men
hanging from trees.
> Btw, shouldn't your false address be x...@kkk.com?
I resist your bigotry and use of racially charged terms and therefore I'm in
the KKK? Talk about the pot calling the kettle negro.
Oh, and for the record,
> you should know I've also reported you to Abuse at Road Runner for the
> offensive nature of the above post.
That's quite understandable hon. If I had your feeble rhetorical skills I
might have to resort to reporting people to the authorities as well. How
very German of you. For my part, I'll be content kicking you around until
you slink back under the rock from whence you emerged.
Gerry
<x...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > As for big penises I can tell you from simple logic that half the
> > black population of the world ain't even got small ones.
>
> We're not discussing "half the black population of the world" and
> their penises dear. We're discussing your reducing black American
> culture to having good rhythm and being "potent."
Why don't you too get a motel room...
--
(random signature)
Fiona Abrahami
"Scott Tissue" <x...@yahoo.com> wrote
> We're not discussing "half the black population of the world" and their
> penises dear.
You chose to bring penises in to the conversation, not me - if you didn't
what to talk about them you shouldn't raised the issue.
> We're discussing your reducing black American culture to
> having good rhythm and being "potent." Because besides the fact that it's
> ignorant and vulgar, similar reductions invariably ended with black men
> hanging from trees.
Firstly, I never mentioned rhythm, and secondly there is nothing vulgar
about the word potent (go look it up, you must have access to a grown-up's
dictionary somewhere) - and how, pray tell, does my defending the vibrancy
and vitality of African-American culture against the banality of "smooth"
foisted upon it my Corporate America result in Afro-Americans hanging from
trees?
> That's quite understandable hon. If I had your feeble rhetorical skills I
> might have to resort to reporting people to the authorities as well. How
> very German of you.
Indian, dear, my people are from Bombay (Mumbai), India. Ooops, and you
thought all Jews were European. Gosh, you are so well informed...
Fiona
Sean
310520061300110345%add...@domain.com.invalid, "Gerry"
<add...@domain.com.invalid> wrote:
Why, has some other couple in this thread already got one?
Oh, you meant two.
And yeah, they should.
gca...@aol.com
thom_j. wrote:
> "Greger Hoel" wrote:
> > And what's next? It was really neither the Jews nor the Romans who
> > killed Jesus, it was smooth jazz!
> no no no, smooth jazz killed Cock Robin...
> a plethora of useless knowledge tee'...
Glad to get more "reply" options bang for m e buck..
Who kileld cock robin..Bing Crosby was Cock Robin and regarding what
someone said, astaying power l;asts depends on ones
favorites..Sinatra,Elvis,etc. had law run ins, a la Jonny Cash, Ray
Charles, that was the reason, and becuasde boomers run the media./
See ya later..gator
Fiona Abrahami
"Sean" <not...@fake.ca> wrote
> "Gerry" <add...@domain.com.invalid> wrote:
> > Scott Tissue <x...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> As for big penises I can tell you from simple logic that half the
> >>> black population of the world ain't even got small ones.
> >>
> >> We're not discussing "half the black population of the world" and
> >> their penises dear. We're discussing your reducing black American
> >> culture to having good rhythm and being "potent."
> >
> > Why don't you too get a motel room...
>
> Why, has some other couple in this thread already got one?
> Oh, you meant two.
Ah, and I thought message was that "Scott" should get a motel room just like
the one Gerry has.
Fiona
zoot
removing the blackness from jazz to make it safe it's no wonder we get
into a pissing contest. fact is smooth jazz is just a buzz word for pop
music for people that don't want to hear run of the mill top 40. it's
about salesmanship. not racial sterilization. fiona, persecuted
paranoid black female jew. are you trying to be a stereotype?
Sean
Abrahami" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
So how is it you know so much about Gerry's motel room? What's going on
around here?
Scott Tissue
>
> "Scott Tissue" <x...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>> We're not discussing "half the black population of the world" and their
>> penises dear.
>
> You chose to bring penises in to the conversation, not me - if you didn't
> what to talk about them you shouldn't raised the issue.
I don't think I've ever raised a penis and am willing to believe that you
haven't either.
>> We're discussing your reducing black American culture to
>> having good rhythm and being "potent." Because besides the fact that it's
>> ignorant and vulgar, similar reductions invariably ended with black men
>> hanging from trees.
>
> Firstly, I never mentioned rhythm,
You said that music without words is the apogee of African American culture
and that such inarticulate music was the ultimate "authentic" African
American voice. In doing so you were (1) wrong (2) stupid and (3)
presumptuous and in being so you echoed a very common racial stereotype:
that blacks gots rhythm.
> and secondly there is nothing vulgar
> about the word potent (go look it up, you must have access to a grown-up's
> dictionary somewhere) -
It's pretty clear that you know nothing about America, African Americans, or
history. Allow me to disabuse you of your ignorance. There was this thing
called slavery, right? And then the slaves were freed. And then a group of
"crackas," who believed that super potent sexually charged African American
males would be unable to control their animal urges around the frail flower
of antebellum womanhood, invented this thing called the Ku Klux Klan, which
went around protecting said females by doing such things as lynching and
castration and whatnot. Which is in fact the exact language you used in
discussing smooth jazz: potency; eunuch; etc. You may recall -- well, no
you, but someone with even the vaguest idea of what they were talking about
might recall -- Clarence Thomas talking about a "high tech lynching" during
his SCOTUS confirmation hearings. What he was talking about was the
allegation that he was unable to control himself around women and the
discussions of large black male members.
In fact, almost the only stereotype you left out of the conversation was
that jazz is lazy and shiftless based upon its use of mixed meter and
rubato.
> and how, pray tell, does my defending the vibrancy
> and vitality of African-American culture against the banality of "smooth"
> foisted upon it my Corporate America result in Afro-Americans hanging from
> trees?
Your arguments are ill founded, your view of the issue through the prism of
race is inappropriate, and the language you used and the ideas you expressed
were perniciously racist. My part was merely a little reductio ad absurdum.
>> That's quite understandable hon. If I had your feeble rhetorical skills I
>> might have to resort to reporting people to the authorities as well. How
>> very German of you.
>
> Indian, dear, my people are from Bombay (Mumbai), India. Ooops, and you
> thought all Jews were European. Gosh, you are so well informed...
I wasn't referring to your religion or ethnicity, of which I was blissfully
unaware. I had in fact been labouring [sic] under the assumption that you
were run of the mill white Eurotrash mullethead. What I was referring to was
your eagerness to report speech with which you disagreed to the authorities.
Or what passes for the authorities in usenet. Incipient fascism is very
teutonic.
>
>
> Fiona
>
>
>
Bobby Knight
Saxofonic
----------
In article <nYCfg.5462$W97....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, "Scott Tissue"
<sc...@ncaa.org> wrote:
<snip>
>
> I had in fact been labouring [sic] under the assumption that you
> were run of the mill white Eurotrash mullethead. What I was referring to was
> your eagerness to report speech with which you disagreed to the authorities.
> Or what passes for the authorities in usenet. Incipient fascism is very
> teutonic.
"Eurotrash" - is that some further attempt to raise the level of discourse?
Stylistically, this brings to mind recent arrival at A.M.S., who, to put it
kindly, was an obnoxious shithead, a poseur who complains about fascism...
gee, waddayaknow... could "snot tissue" be... "sticker" aka "Lenny
Guthrie"?
Scott Tissue
"Bobby Knight" <bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:hfvt72t8o819odrph...@4ax.com...
Thanks you Bobby. Besides being a fine BB coash and humanitarian you are
obviously a fellow of discerning taste. In which case you will appreciate
fine music such as the tunes produced by the Weasels on their newest record
Axis of Weasel. Free downloads are available at www.theweasels.com.
Scott Tissue
"Saxofonic" <Sa...@fonic.net> wrote in message
news:11491917...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>
>
> ----------
> In article <nYCfg.5462$W97....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, "Scott Tissue"
> <sc...@ncaa.org> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> I had in fact been labouring [sic] under the assumption that you
>> were run of the mill white Eurotrash mullethead. What I was referring to
>> was
>> your eagerness to report speech with which you disagreed to the
>> authorities.
>> Or what passes for the authorities in usenet. Incipient fascism is very
>> teutonic.
>
> "Eurotrash" - is that some further attempt to raise the level of
> discourse?
>
>
> Stylistically, this brings to mind recent arrival at A.M.S., who, to put
> it
> kindly, was an obnoxious shithead, a poseur who complains about fascism...
> gee, waddayaknow... could "snot tissue" be... "sticker" aka "Lenny
> Guthrie"?
Wrong dopey. Try again.
gca...@aol.com
googledawg wrote:
> "smoo jazz" - always just called it elevator jazz...
>
> no improvisation -a few extended chords, not much alteration.
>
> danceable, sorta - semi-funk, but not too much.
>
> last radio station hear to play smooth jazz found a bigger audience
> airing rush limbaugh. and that's probably NOT because this is the
> midwest.
>
> they couldn't get sponsors - what are the demographics?
>
> i guess if i was held prisoner somewhere and there were a choice
> between smoojazz and rush limbaugh, i might switch back and forth once
> in a while.
>
> JAZZ jazz has got some cornbread to it.
Ah..fuel for the anti-moldy figs. CERTAINLY you were not talking of le
boppo,. But of le Moldy Figue Jazz from the 1920s.."blow some corn
right through your horn:".
Comin'; at ya!
Kelly Clarkson fan
even drawn-out major sevenths
> held against a dominant 13th - THAT will curl your toes a little!
> and two horns both playing alMOST a flat-and-half third. You heard it
> first HERE folks!
>
> elevator jazz is better than dentist-office violins for elevators i
> guess, or shopping malls. or----hmm, well, not video game
> backgrounds, not coffee houses, not .....not not...
Fiona Abrahami
"zoot" <aba...@ns-design.com> wrote
> It's about salesmanship. not racial sterilization.
I never said it was about racial sterilisation, and I agree it's all about
sales, but "smooth" is about neutralising the radical to make it safe for
mass market advertisers to handle.
> fiona, persecuted
> paranoid black female jew. are you trying to be a stereotype?
Not at all, (a) I'm not persecuted, (b) I'm not paranoid, (c) I'm not black,
off-white perhaps, but not black except to those who view everyone who's not
white as black. Yes, I am female and Jewish, but that's hardly
stereotypical.
Fiona
Fiona Abrahami
"Scott Tissue" <sc...@ncaa.org> wrote
> "Fiona Abrahami" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote
> > "Scott Tissue" <x...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> We're discussing your reducing black American culture to
> >> having good rhythm and being "potent." Because besides the fact that
it's
> >> ignorant and vulgar, similar reductions invariably ended with black men
> >> hanging from trees.
> >
> > Firstly, I never mentioned rhythm,
>
> You said that music without words is the apogee of African American
culture
> and that such inarticulate music was the ultimate "authentic" African
> American voice. In doing so you were (1) wrong (2) stupid and (3)
> presumptuous and in being so you echoed a very common racial stereotype:
> that blacks gots rhythm.
That is a complete fabrication, I never said any such thing, and I defy you
to provide proof, go on, lets see a link to the post where you think I said
it.
> > and secondly there is nothing vulgar
> > about the word potent (go look it up, you must have access to a
grown-up's
> > dictionary somewhere) -
>
> It's pretty clear that you know nothing about America, African Americans,
or
> history. Allow me to disabuse you of your ignorance. There was this thing
> called slavery, right? And then the slaves were freed. And then a group of
> "crackas," who believed that super potent sexually charged African
American
> males would be unable to control their animal urges around the frail
flower
> of antebellum womanhood, invented this thing called the Ku Klux Klan,
which
> went around protecting said females by doing such things as lynching and
> castration and whatnot. Which is in fact the exact language you used in
> discussing smooth jazz: potency; eunuch; etc.
Yes, and my point is that The Man is still at it, he hasn't changed, but
because he can no longer physically abuse blacks with the same impunity, he
takes out his inferiority complex on black culture instead. The Man's
purpose is the same as it ever was - to keep the black man down, while
exploiting his strength.
> > and how, pray tell, does my defending the vibrancy
> > and vitality of African-American culture against the banality of
"smooth"
> > foisted upon it my Corporate America result in Afro-Americans hanging
from
> > trees?
>
> Your arguments are ill founded, your view of the issue through the prism
of
> race is inappropriate, and the language you used and the ideas you
expressed
> were perniciously racist. My part was merely a little reductio ad
absurdum.
No, your part was a big ad hominem.
> >> That's quite understandable hon. If I had your feeble rhetorical skills
I
> >> might have to resort to reporting people to the authorities as well.
How
> >> very German of you.
> >
> > Indian, dear, my people are from Bombay (Mumbai), India. Ooops, and you
> > thought all Jews were European. Gosh, you are so well informed...
>
> I wasn't referring to your religion or ethnicity, of which I was
blissfully
> unaware. I had in fact been labouring [sic] under the assumption that you
> were run of the mill white Eurotrash mullethead. What I was referring to
was
> your eagerness to report speech with which you disagreed to the
authorities.
> Or what passes for the authorities in usenet.
What, you think you are above the law? Go re-read your RoadRunner contract.
> Incipient fascism is very teutonic.
I'm not trying to force you to accept my opinions, but I will sure as hell
defend myself when attacked.
Fiona
Scott Tissue
>
> "Scott Tissue" <sc...@ncaa.org> wrote
>> "Fiona Abrahami" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> > "Scott Tissue" <x...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>> >> We're discussing your reducing black American culture to
>> >> having good rhythm and being "potent." Because besides the fact that
> it's
>> >> ignorant and vulgar, similar reductions invariably ended with black
>> >> men
>> >> hanging from trees.
>> >
>> > Firstly, I never mentioned rhythm,
>>
>> You said that music without words is the apogee of African American
> culture
>> and that such inarticulate music was the ultimate "authentic" African
>> American voice. In doing so you were (1) wrong (2) stupid and (3)
>> presumptuous and in being so you echoed a very common racial stereotype:
>> that blacks gots rhythm.
>
> That is a complete fabrication, I never said any such thing, and I defy
> you
> to provide proof, go on, lets see a link to the post where you think I
> said
> it.
I'd be happy to, you silly cow:
"jazz *is* the voice of the African-American people."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.music.saxophone/msg/81d6016c92d2812c?hl=en&
>> > and secondly there is nothing vulgar
>> > about the word potent (go look it up, you must have access to a
> grown-up's
>> > dictionary somewhere) -
>>
>> It's pretty clear that you know nothing about America, African Americans,
> or
>> history. Allow me to disabuse you of your ignorance. There was this thing
>> called slavery, right? And then the slaves were freed. And then a group
>> of
>> "crackas," who believed that super potent sexually charged African
> American
>> males would be unable to control their animal urges around the frail
> flower
>> of antebellum womanhood, invented this thing called the Ku Klux Klan,
> which
>> went around protecting said females by doing such things as lynching and
>> castration and whatnot. Which is in fact the exact language you used in
>> discussing smooth jazz: potency; eunuch; etc.
>
> Yes, and my point is that The Man is still at it, he hasn't changed, but
> because he can no longer physically abuse blacks with the same impunity,
> he
> takes out his inferiority complex on black culture instead. The Man's
> purpose is the same as it ever was - to keep the black man down, while
> exploiting his strength.
First "cracka" and now "the Man." Very authentic. By the way, what does "the
man" sorry the Man capital M have to say about Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya,
Shudra, Harijan.
There's no law against pointing out that you're a racist and a chowderhead.
> Go re-read your RoadRunner contract.
No thanks, but I do have a suggestion as to what you can do with it.
UCLAN
>>> You said that music without words is the apogee of African
>>> American culture
>>> and that such inarticulate music was the ultimate "authentic"
>>> African American voice. In doing so you were (1) wrong (2) stupid
>>> and (3) presumptuous and in being so you echoed a very common
>>> racial stereotype: that blacks gots rhythm.
>>
>> That is a complete fabrication, I never said any such thing, and I
>> defy you to provide proof, go on, lets see a link to the post where
>> you think I said it.
>
> I'd be happy to, you silly cow:
>
> "jazz *is* the voice of the African-American people."
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.music.saxophone/msg/81d6016c92d2812c?hl=en&
I love it when the asked for "proof" contains none of the disputed
verbiage.
Continue with your petty bickering...
Scott Tissue
"UCLAN" <nom...@thanks.org> wrote in message
news:J3Ggg.6035$rS6.1393@fed1read11...
Jesus you're stupid. I'm interpretting the writing, not quoting the words.
"jazz [music w/o words = inarticulate] *is* the voice [see, "the" voice, not
_a_ voice; ultimate, authentic, apogee] of the African-American people.
You may think its appropriate for what turns out to be an indian sephard who
lives in england and does usenet in a Steppenfetchit accent to dismiss as
inauthentic the voices of actual African Americans like James Baldwin and ML
King and Paul Robeson and Tom Sowell and Jessie Jackson and Toni Morrison
and Tupac and whoever else you want to name, but I assure you it's not. And
you may think that it's appropriate for the dopey eurotrash racist to refer
to (e.g.) Grover Washington and Stanley Turentine and Najee as "eunuchs"
because she finds that they're not sufficiently black enough, but I assure
you that's not either.
> Continue with your petty bickering...
I don't recall asking for your permission, imbecile.
slot
Scott Tissue wrote:
>
> I don't recall asking for your permission, imbecile.
Ah, now you know Ric* like we know Ric.
--------------
*This troll frequently changes handles and was formerly known as "Ric."
slot
Fiona Abrahami wrote:
>
> Not at all, (a) I'm not persecuted,
Then stop acting like it.
> (b) I'm not paranoid,
Ditto.
> c) I'm not black,
Three strikes.
You're out.
slot
Fiona Abrahami wrote:
>
> Yes, and my point is that The Man is still at it, he hasn't changed, but
> because he can no longer physically abuse blacks with the same impunity, he
> takes out his inferiority complex on black culture instead.
And he did it by inventing Gangsta Rap.
slot
Scott Tissue wrote:
>
> First "cracka" and now "the Man." Very authentic.
Yeah, she almost had me fooled there for a millisecond or so.
Jack A. Zucker
news:447b0672$0$24299$8826...@free.teranews.com...
> "Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
> news:Hv2dnYTSsfd...@adelphia.com...
>> So how about David Sanborn? Junk or great music?
>>
>> It's certainly not straight ahead but there are some great grooves on his
>> records.
>
>
> You've nailed one of the key distinctions right there. "Smooth" is
> generally a groove oriented backbeat style with even eighths. It features
> players like Sanborn who are coming out of the r&b tradition.
>
> People ask me about smooth jazz now and then, but I just say I prefer jazz
> with lumps, chunks and other in consistencies. .........joe
So you think Sanborn is good or bad? :-)
slot
Personally, I thinbk he's great.
How about you?
Fiona Abrahami
"Scott Tissue" <y...@xxx.org> wrote
> "Fiona Abrahami" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote
> > "Scott Tissue" <sc...@ncaa.org> wrote
> >> "Fiona Abrahami" <fi...@intxtdoc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote
> >> > "Scott Tissue" <x...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >
> >> >> We're discussing your reducing black American culture to
> >> >> having good rhythm and being "potent." Because besides the fact that
> >> >> it's ignorant and vulgar, similar reductions invariably ended with
black
> >> >> men hanging from trees.
> >> >
> >> > Firstly, I never mentioned rhythm,
> >>
> >> You said that music without words is the apogee of African American
> >> culture and that such inarticulate music was the ultimate "authentic"
> >> African American voice. In doing so you were (1) wrong (2) stupid and
(3)
> >> presumptuous and in being so you echoed a very common racial
stereotype:
> >> that blacks gots rhythm.
> >
> > That is a complete fabrication, I never said any such thing, and I defy
> > you to provide proof, go on, lets see a link to the post where you think
I
> > said it.
>
> I'd be happy to, you silly cow:
>
> "jazz *is* the voice of the African-American people."
>
>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.music.saxophone/msg/81d6016c92d2812c?hl=en&
ROTFLOL, that's it? That's your proof? With your own keyboard you condemn
yourself as a liar.
Fiona
Fiona Abrahami
"Scott Tissue" <y...@xxx.org> wrote
> "UCLAN" <nom...@thanks.org> wrote
> > Scott Tissue wrote:
> >
> >>>> You said that music without words is the apogee of African
> >>>> American culture
> >>>> and that such inarticulate music was the ultimate "authentic"
> >>>> African American voice. In doing so you were (1) wrong (2) stupid
> >>>> and (3) presumptuous and in being so you echoed a very common
> >>>> racial stereotype: that blacks gots rhythm.
> >>>
> >>> That is a complete fabrication, I never said any such thing, and I
> >>> defy you to provide proof, go on, lets see a link to the post where
> >>> you think I said it.
> >>
> >> I'd be happy to, you silly cow:
> >>
> >> "jazz *is* the voice of the African-American people."
> >>
> >>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.music.saxophone/msg/81d6016c92d2812c?hl=en&
> >
> > I love it when the asked for "proof" contains none of the disputed
> > verbiage.
>
> Jesus you're stupid. I'm interpretting the writing, not quoting the words.
No, you are inventing things that not there.
> "jazz [music w/o words = inarticulate]
Since when has the definition of jazz been "music without words," what about
all those great jazz singers? Do you want to claim they weren't singing
jazz?
Fiona
Gerry
Zucker <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote:
> > You've nailed one of the key distinctions right there. "Smooth" is
> > generally a groove oriented backbeat style with even eighths. It features
> > players like Sanborn who are coming out of the r&b tradition.
> >
> > People ask me about smooth jazz now and then, but I just say I prefer jazz
> > with lumps, chunks and other in consistencies. .........joe
>
> So you think Sanborn is good or bad? :-)
I think he is a stunning player. I haven't scoped all of his
recordings so can't categorize his career. I think Joe Beck is such a
wonderful player. During my endless guitar-trio haunt I came back (as
I still do) to his model trio on "Relaxin'" ('91).
I'm still surprised, though, how "smooth" Beck and Sanborn is though.
--
All great truths begin as blasphemies. -- George Bernard Shaw
Jack A. Zucker
groove and a bounce to it even if it is straight 8th. I've gotten to the
point where I want to hear music that makes me want to tap my foot. Whether
it's Wynton or whoever, it's got to make me snap my fingers.
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"slot" <jazz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149468574.8...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
UCLAN
>>>>>You said that music without words is the apogee of African
>>>>>American culture
>>>>>and that such inarticulate music was the ultimate "authentic"
>>>>>African American voice. In doing so you were (1) wrong (2) stupid
>>>>>and (3) presumptuous and in being so you echoed a very common
>>>>>racial stereotype: that blacks gots rhythm.
>>>>
>>>>That is a complete fabrication, I never said any such thing, and I
>>>>defy you to provide proof, go on, lets see a link to the post where
>>>>you think I said it.
>>>
>>>I'd be happy to, you silly cow:
>>>
>>>"jazz *is* the voice of the African-American people."
>>>
>>>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.music.saxophone/msg/81d6016c92d2812c?hl=en&
>>
>>I love it when the asked for "proof" contains none of the disputed
>>verbiage.
>
> Jesus you're stupid. I'm interpretting the writing, not quoting the words.
Then don't begin with the words "you said" or at least state that you
are paraphrasing. Us "stupid" folk would really appreciate it.
[Why am I even conversing with somebody going by the name of
"Scott Tissue"?]
gca...@aol.com
zoot wrote:
> Edward Branham wrote:
> > >>
> > >>Perhaps it used to be, but I'd say hip-hop is far more vital than jazz
> > >>in large portions of the balck community.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hip-hop is a descendant of the black jazz tradition.
> >
> > yup - and rap is a descendant of talking blues in the delta tradition
>
> nope
> [c] rap is the descendant of little girls jumping rope [pretty much all
> the music input an amerikan kid gets now that the country has been
> taken over by greedy bastards that don't support the arts or even keep
> it in the schools]
No, it is the typos ("def", "hoemboyz",etc cetera) of the bullying boy
who physically pushes the little girls, knocks them to the ground (only
for them to successfull sic their moms* on them) and curses the girls.
*The Moms tend to be more involved, apparently, sicne "mom's are more
trusted to defend the girls than the daddies.":-)
See ya!
zoot
i think sanborn is just one of many complete musicians that isn't
afraid to be seen selling what people buy. he is a fine jazz player and
as his work with gill evans shows he can handle parts. i'll even bet
that as usual he had mastered many styles and aspects of sax playing
before he went seriously into jazz. smooth being just a handle for
adult contemporary pop can include music by people that have never had
a jazz thought. shade, elton john, and such seem to fit the smooth JAZZ
thing. there are lots of people that can only and just barely eek out
music that connects with jo average that knows nothing from music of
any kind and they are big stars of some form of pop music and sanborn
ain't one of them.
Gerry
<aba...@ns-design.com> wrote:
> i think sanborn is just one of many complete musicians that isn't
> afraid to be seen selling what people buy.
And isn't afraid to tailor it so they will buy more than they do if he
didn't tailor it? How "unafraid" should an artist be in tailoring his
music for larger groups? Tight pants, dancing girls, bouffant, glam
make-up, turntable-twisters, double-entendré lyrics? Would it be even
MORE unafraid if sanborn covered Kenny G's whole act? Just trying to
get a scope on what "unafraid" means in the context of pandering to a
larger audience.
> he is a fine jazz player and
> as his work with gill evans shows he can handle parts. i'll even bet
> that as usual he had mastered many styles and aspects of sax playing
> before he went seriously into jazz.
Disregard or disdain for "smooth jazz" has consistently dismissed any
connection with a lack of ability. Quite the opposite: most musicians
usually preface a criticism by saying the musicians are highly
qualified players. Sanborn is highly qualified.
> smooth being just a handle for
> adult contemporary pop can include music by people that have never had
> a jazz thought. shade, elton john, and such seem to fit the smooth JAZZ
> thing.
I disagree. All pop music is not "smooth jazz". In fact vocal music
is, almost by definition, not smooth jazz. If most smooth jazz had
Peabo Bryson or Anita Baker (as I mention two weeks upstream), I'd
probably have no problems with it. It would be good, high quality pop
music, instead of limited. anemic, over-processed, vocal-free "smooth
jazz".
> there are lots of people that can only and just barely eek out
> music that connects with jo average that knows nothing from music of
> any kind and they are big stars of some form of pop music
If they are "smooth jazz" performers, who might you be talking about?
> and sanborn ain't one of them.
He's not an incompetent with no ability that's squating down and
extruding sludge for "jo average"? Well I'm glad you addressed that
charge. If somebody makes that charge, I'll paste it for their
consideration.
BTW have you heard "Beck and Sanborn", or are you defending Sanborn's
entire recording career against nobody in particular?
Derek
I have said this before on other threads, but smooth jazz reminds me of
a soda on a hot day, while cold and wet, it's sticky sweetness leaves
you unsatisfied.