The Coup yank album art
Jonathan Ashley
Hip-Hop Group Yanks Album Cover Depicting WTC Blast
By Sue Zeidler
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Striking a macabre note, a new album cover by
hip-hop band The Coup -- whose music has a strong anti-capitalist bent --
had until recently depicted the World Trade Center exploding, the band's
label said on Wednesday.
``We changed the artwork as soon as we saw what had happened,'' said Daria
Kelly, director of sales for 75 Ark, the band's label.
Kelly said the picture, which eerily shows group member ''Boots'' Riley
holding a detonator in front of the exploding towers, was yanked from the
San Francisco-based company's Web site at (http://www.75ark.com) by 9:30
a.m. PDT on Tuesday, hours after two hijacked airliners actually smashed
into the World Trade Center's twin towers and brought them down, possibly
causing thousands of deaths.
Kelly said the artwork was done about two months ago for the band's
upcoming album, ``Party Music,'' which features a single called ``5
Million Ways to Kill a CEO'' and is due to hit stores on November 6.
``We were going to print them this week. Thank goodness we hadn't yet
printed them,'' she said, adding that the new album cover would probably
just bear the band's logo.
While the label quickly moved to delete the image -- which shows
explosions in the towers at about the same level as the actual blasts --
the picture has begun to circulate on the Internet and generate a lot of
reaction.
It was featured Wednesday on lifestyle-culture Web site at
(http://www.ammocity.com) accompanied by the following message: ''The
album cover for hip-hop group 'The Coup' manages to even outweird the
quotes from Nostradamus doing the email rounds today.''
Kelly said she had not received any e-mails about the cover, noting it
hadn't been circulated by the label very much.
``We just started press about a month ago,'' she said describing the
Oakland, Calif-band's music as focusing on the ''destruction of corporate
America.''
The band, considered among the more overtly political rap bands, was
formed in the early 1990s. Lead rapper/producer Boots Riley, whose real
name is Raymond Riley, was involved in political activism before becoming
a musician, according to music industry sources.
Released in 1993, the Coup's debut album ``Kill My Landlord'' was a highly
charged blend of leftist resistance and 70s funk, which received wide
critical praise.
Jarrod
> Wednesday September 12 4:08 PM ET
>
> Hip-Hop Group Yanks Album Cover Depicting WTC Blast
> By Sue Zeidler
i think that picture was in bad taste even before the attack occurred
--
Jarrod
--
A groan of tedium escapes me...
Jonathan Ashley
> Jonathan Ashley wrote:
>
> > Wednesday September 12 4:08 PM ET
> >
> > Hip-Hop Group Yanks Album Cover Depicting WTC Blast
> > By Sue Zeidler
>
> i think that picture was in bad taste even before the attack occurred
Dear lord. And you are on a Rage board?
Is the Evil Empire art in bad taste? Were any of the mock up album covers
like a black man hanging from the statue of liberty, or a capitalist
riding an a-bomb like from dr. strangelove in bad taste?
When you hear the album, and stop making opinions based on a closed mind,
you'll find out that the cover art relates to a lyric on a song in the
album. It's not about violence on people, it's about populisism and
working class people being destroyed because of corporate ideas. Another
thing that Rage talked about.
But they were a-ok because they were about the RAWK right man?
Jarrod
wow...i mean wow... you have ascended to new pillars of idiocy today
the cover was in bad taste because it depicted the deaths of thousands of
people, something that the evil empire cover did not.... it has nothing to do
with the music.... if my favorite band made an album cover showing the singer
murdering thousands of people i would still find it to be in bad taste
Jonathan Ashley
> Jonathan Ashley wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Jarrod wrote:
> >
> > > Jonathan Ashley wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wednesday September 12 4:08 PM ET
> > > >
> > > > Hip-Hop Group Yanks Album Cover Depicting WTC Blast
> > > > By Sue Zeidler
> > >
> > > i think that picture was in bad taste even before the attack occurred
> > Dear lord. And you are on a Rage board?
> >
> > Is the Evil Empire art in bad taste? Were any of the mock up album covers
> > like a black man hanging from the statue of liberty, or a capitalist
> > riding an a-bomb like from dr. strangelove in bad taste?
> >
> > When you hear the album, and stop making opinions based on a closed mind,
> > you'll find out that the cover art relates to a lyric on a song in the
> > album. It's not about violence on people, it's about populisism and
> > working class people being destroyed because of corporate ideas. Another
> > thing that Rage talked about.
> >
> > But they were a-ok because they were about the RAWK right man?
>
> wow...i mean wow... you have ascended to new pillars of idiocy today
We'll keep this in mind as I reply...
> the cover was in bad taste because it depicted the deaths of thousands of
> people,
Where? It shows a building EXPLODING...not people dying. And as I said
before hand, it relates to a lyric about destroying capitalism that
destroys people. The man would be a hypocrite if he were to say that he
hated businesses that "murdered babies" while he raps about killing
others. Which he doesn't do.
>something that the evil empire cover did not....
But Rage has had covers that have depicted hangings, molotav cocktails,
and guns. Things that aren't associated with bringing life into this
world...
>it has nothing to do
> with the music....
This goes back to the discussion that you weasled out of a few weeks ago,
and how you feel empathy for certain things that you like, but could care
less about subjects you don't care for. Or am I still a racist for
insinuating that?
>if my favorite band made an album cover showing the singer
> murdering thousands of people i would still find it to be in bad taste
And when tool says in Aenima that they want the city of los angeles to
fall off into the ocean, and for everyone to "learn to swim" when it
happens??? What is that? Is that still in bad taste? It is a
description that could lead to the death of thousands of people...
Nick
Jonathan Ashley <j...@oblivion.accessus.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.01091...@oblivion.accessus.net...
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Jarrod wrote:
> Where? It shows a building EXPLODING...not people dying.
Oh lord, that's classic.
Nick
Jarrod
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Jarrod wrote:
>
> > Jonathan Ashley wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Jarrod wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jonathan Ashley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Wednesday September 12 4:08 PM ET
> > > > >
> > > > > Hip-Hop Group Yanks Album Cover Depicting WTC Blast
> > > > > By Sue Zeidler
> > > >
> > > > i think that picture was in bad taste even before the attack occurred
> > > Dear lord. And you are on a Rage board?
> > >
> > > Is the Evil Empire art in bad taste? Were any of the mock up album covers
> > > like a black man hanging from the statue of liberty, or a capitalist
> > > riding an a-bomb like from dr. strangelove in bad taste?
> > >
> > > When you hear the album, and stop making opinions based on a closed mind,
> > > you'll find out that the cover art relates to a lyric on a song in the
> > > album. It's not about violence on people, it's about populisism and
> > > working class people being destroyed because of corporate ideas. Another
> > > thing that Rage talked about.
> > >
> > > But they were a-ok because they were about the RAWK right man?
> >
> > wow...i mean wow... you have ascended to new pillars of idiocy today
>
> We'll keep this in mind as I reply...
>
> > the cover was in bad taste because it depicted the deaths of thousands of
> > people,
>
> Where? It shows a building EXPLODING...not people dying.
lame... put 2 and 2 together..... hmm, building full of people exploding....
> And as I said
> before hand, it relates to a lyric about destroying capitalism that
> destroys people. The man would be a hypocrite if he were to say that he
> hated businesses that "murdered babies" while he raps about killing
> others. Which he doesn't do.
even if he doesn't rap about it, he DID put it on the cover of his album.... i'm
not saying this man is a cold blooded killer, and yes i understand the point....
but i still think it is innapropriate... JUST MY OPINION
> >something that the evil empire cover did not....
>
> But Rage has had covers that have depicted hangings, molotav cocktails,
> and guns. Things that aren't associated with bringing life into this
> world...
bringing life into the world? that is totally irrelevant... rage has never had a
cover depicting the deaths of thousands of people.... and why did you even bring
evil empire up at all? was it just the first thing that popped into your head,
even if it didn't make sense?
> >it has nothing to do
> > with the music....
>
> This goes back to the discussion that you weasled out of a few weeks ago,
> and how you feel empathy for certain things that you like, but could care
> less about subjects you don't care for. Or am I still a racist for
> insinuating that?
i don't know what you're talking about here, but feel free to give me a link to
the thread
> >if my favorite band made an album cover showing the singer
> > murdering thousands of people i would still find it to be in bad taste
>
> And when tool says in Aenima that they want the city of los angeles to
> fall off into the ocean, and for everyone to "learn to swim" when it
> happens??? What is that? Is that still in bad taste? It is a
> description that could lead to the death of thousands of people...
hehe ok you got me.... but thats figurative..... that isn't a picture of maynard
murdering people.... and its definitely NOT glorifying a deliberate terrorist act
the sole purpose of which is to kill people... he's saying "i hope some natural
disaster comes and wipes out all these losers" half jokingly
Jonathan Ashley
And you know this from the man on the moon. Pay attention to an argument
before you decide to chime in.
Jarrod
my thoughts exactly..... "it shows him pointing a gun at someone with a
bullet hurtling through the air towards his head.... it doesn't show
anyone dying!"
Jonathan Ashley
Maybe instead of putting "2 and 2 together" and jumping to wild
accusations, like you accuse me of always doing, you should listen to the
man's lyrics and find out that he doesn't support murder like that.
> > And as I said
> > before hand, it relates to a lyric about destroying capitalism that
> > destroys people. The man would be a hypocrite if he were to say that he
> > hated businesses that "murdered babies" while he raps about killing
> > others. Which he doesn't do.
>
> even if he doesn't rap about it, he DID put it on the cover of his album....
And we're juding a book by his cover?
> >
> > But Rage has had covers that have depicted hangings, molotav cocktails,
> > and guns. Things that aren't associated with bringing life into this
> > world...
>
> bringing life into the world? that is totally irrelevant... rage has never had a
> cover depicting the deaths of thousands of people....
And neither does this artwork. It shows the destruction of a building.
There is a world of difference.
>and why did you even bring
> evil empire up at all?
Because the evil empire artwork is the #1 sign to rage hating white people
for people who are too silly to look into things. They see an image of a
white person, the words evil, and a multicultural band and assume that
they hate white people. Without looking into the band's message...
Does any of this sound familiar Jarrod?
>was it just the first thing that popped into your head,
> even if it didn't make sense?
The parts that did make "sense", including the t-shirts showing malatov
cocktails, singles with families and guns, and black men hanging from the
statue of liberty, you just decided not to comment on?
Like *these* images?:
http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/23.jpg
http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/22.jpg
http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/18.jpg
http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/15.jpg
http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0014.jpg
http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0019.jpg
Or how about this BOMB flying into a house from some Rage art?
http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0018.jpg
Are those considered distasteful?
> > >it has nothing to do
> > > with the music....
> >
> > This goes back to the discussion that you weasled out of a few weeks ago,
> > and how you feel empathy for certain things that you like, but could care
> > less about subjects you don't care for. Or am I still a racist for
> > insinuating that?
>
> i don't know what you're talking about here, but feel free to give me a link to
> the thread
It was the Aaliyah death joke conversation...we won't get into it again.
> > >if my favorite band made an album cover showing the singer
> > > murdering thousands of people i would still find it to be in bad taste
> >
> > And when tool says in Aenima that they want the city of los angeles to
> > fall off into the ocean, and for everyone to "learn to swim" when it
> > happens??? What is that? Is that still in bad taste? It is a
> > description that could lead to the death of thousands of people...
>
> hehe ok you got me.... but thats figurative.....
And so is the COUP artwork. I don't think they went out and blew up the
building and took a picture of it? And if they did I'm *very* suprised
they aren't arrested yet.
>that isn't a picture of maynard
> murdering people....
He paints of picture with his lyrical imagery though.
>and its definitely NOT glorifying a deliberate terrorist act
> the sole purpose of which is to kill people... he's saying "i hope some natural
> disaster comes and wipes out all these losers" half jokingly
But the content of the song could be interrpreted as Maynard not caring
about the lives lost if a natural disaster could strike? That's a very
sad thing, and I'd hate to see an actual disaster strike LA and the only
condolensces that Mr. Keenan had to give were "learn to swim". But this
is what Boots Riley from the Coup had to say:
"The original intent of the cover was to use the World Trade Center to
symbolise capitalism and was not supposed to be realistic in it's
depiction, although there is an uncanny similarity. All life is precious
and this tremendous tragedy is by no means taken lightly by The Coup. This
is a very unfortunate coincidence and my condolences go out to the
families and friends of the victims."
My final point Jarrod: please don't let any petty or small-minded
bigotries or prejudices, even if they are unbeknownst to you, get in your way of making
judgements or forming opinions. I'm not saying that you are a bigot, or
prejudice. But, It's funny that you're a fan of both Everlast and Rage -
as am I- because one thing that is important to both of those artists is to make
sure that empathy and a voice is given to ideas and people that aren't
normally even recognized.
Nick
hahahahaha
shutup
Nick
Jonathan Ashley
different t hings.
Which leads me to believe that you weren't talking about seeing the
conversation.
Jonathan Ashley
> Jonathan Ashley <j...@oblivion.accessus.net> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.33.01091...@oblivion.accessus.net...
> > On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Nick wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Jonathan Ashley <j...@oblivion.accessus.net> wrote in message
> > > news:Pine.LNX.4.33.01091...@oblivion.accessus.net...
> > > > On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Jarrod wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > Where? It shows a building EXPLODING...not people dying.
> > >
> > > Oh lord, that's classic.
> > And you know this from the man on the moon. Pay attention to an argument
> > before you decide to chime in.
>
> hahahahaha
What a way to ignore points again.
> shutup
And again.
Omaha Stylee
Jonathan Ashley
> Nick wrote:
>
> > Jonathan Ashley <j...@oblivion.accessus.net> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.LNX.4.33.01091...@oblivion.accessus.net...
> > > On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Jarrod wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > Where? It shows a building EXPLODING...not people dying.
> >
> > Oh lord, that's classic.
>
> my thoughts exactly..... "it shows him pointing a gun at someone with a
> bullet hurtling through the air towards his head.... it doesn't show
> anyone dying!"
Those are two different things Jarrod, and once again you make aberrent
arguments.
I suppose when I see pictures of demolition experts destroying buildings,
old stadiums, and the like, that THEY are killing people as well--right??
Jarrod
no because when a decrepit old stadium is imploded of course there's no one
in there.... but when you stand there blowing up the world trade center
(where people are obviously inside) with a grin on your face, you are
obviously killing people..... AND, if there were no people inside then what
is the point of the cover? the point is to show Boots destroying the
capitalist system..... blowing up any random empty building does not do that,
but blowing up a world trade center full of people has an impact.... that was
the point of the cover... and i think it was in bad taste
Jarrod
then why is there a picture of him killing people on the cover? once again, i FULLY
UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF THE PICTURE.... and once again i feel that it was innapropriate...
but i'm not dissing your beloved coup for fucks sake
> > > And as I said
> > > before hand, it relates to a lyric about destroying capitalism that
> > > destroys people. The man would be a hypocrite if he were to say that he
> > > hated businesses that "murdered babies" while he raps about killing
> > > others. Which he doesn't do.
> >
> > even if he doesn't rap about it, he DID put it on the cover of his album....
>
> And we're juding a book by his cover?
yes we are, because smack dab on the cover of the album is a picture of the frontman
killing people.... there is no way around that
> > >
> > > But Rage has had covers that have depicted hangings, molotav cocktails,
> > > and guns. Things that aren't associated with bringing life into this
> > > world...
> >
> > bringing life into the world? that is totally irrelevant... rage has never had a
> > cover depicting the deaths of thousands of people....
>
> And neither does this artwork. It shows the destruction of a building.
> There is a world of difference.
it shows the destruction of a building full of people.... how do i know that? because there
are ALWAYS people inside the world trade center, that is a FACT.... he wasn't blowing up
"just a building"... he was blowing up the world trade center.... and if he truly was
destroying "just a building" then what is the point to the picture? there is no power
behind that..... nobody makes a statement by blowing up just any empty building.... people
make statements by blowing up the world trade center... and when you do that, people die...
its kinda the point
> >and why did you even bring
> > evil empire up at all?
>
> Because the evil empire artwork is the #1 sign to rage hating white people
> for people who are too silly to look into things. They see an image of a
> white person, the words evil, and a multicultural band and assume that
> they hate white people. Without looking into the band's message...
>
> Does any of this sound familiar Jarrod?
no because what you said just made no sense... nobody looks at the evil empire cover and
assumes rage hates white people... that has never happened... oh and PS, just by looking at
the cover you don't know that rage is multicultural.... all you see is a kid looking like a
superman wannabe with the words evil empire... its pretty obvious what it means... and it
has nothing to do with race... no one on earth ever saw the evil empire cover and thought
that rage hated white people
> >was it just the first thing that popped into your head,
> > even if it didn't make sense?
>
> The parts that did make "sense", including the t-shirts showing malatov
> cocktails, singles with families and guns, and black men hanging from the
> statue of liberty, you just decided not to comment on?
these things all refer to people taking down authority.... molotov cocktails to fight the
war with, etc..... those things have nothing to do with murdering thousands of INNOCENTS...
all the rage posters and images have to do with taking down the GUILTY
> Like *these* images?:
> http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/23.jpg
> http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/22.jpg
> http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/18.jpg
> http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/15.jpg
> http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0014.jpg
> http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0019.jpg
>
> Or how about this BOMB flying into a house from some Rage art?
> http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0018.jpg
>
> Are those considered distasteful?
my god i never really thought i would meet a person this THICK in my life.... the bomb
about to land on the house represents the SYSTEM.... a MILITARY PLANE killing innocents....
the image is meant to show you how WRONG the scene is..... the coup cover is meant to seem
cool that he's killing people, which is the opposite message.... thanks for linking to that
pic cause it proves me right
> > > >it has nothing to do
> > > > with the music....
> > >
> > > This goes back to the discussion that you weasled out of a few weeks ago,
> > > and how you feel empathy for certain things that you like, but could care
> > > less about subjects you don't care for. Or am I still a racist for
> > > insinuating that?
> >
> > i don't know what you're talking about here, but feel free to give me a link to
> > the thread
>
> It was the Aaliyah death joke conversation...we won't get into it again.
the aaliyah death thing was me saying that i didn't feel sad for her... it had nothing to
do with race or music.... i still don't see what you're getting at
> > > >if my favorite band made an album cover showing the singer
> > > > murdering thousands of people i would still find it to be in bad taste
> > >
> > > And when tool says in Aenima that they want the city of los angeles to
> > > fall off into the ocean, and for everyone to "learn to swim" when it
> > > happens??? What is that? Is that still in bad taste? It is a
> > > description that could lead to the death of thousands of people...
> >
> > hehe ok you got me.... but thats figurative.....
>
> And so is the COUP artwork. I don't think they went out and blew up the
> building and took a picture of it? And if they did I'm *very* suprised
> they aren't arrested yet.
the tool cover does not depict thousands of innocent people dying at the hands of the
frontman
> >that isn't a picture of maynard
> > murdering people....
>
> He paints of picture with his lyrical imagery though.
no he doesn't.... when does he paint a picture of him murdering people? never.... he says
he hopes the end is near... kinda like when yanni says he's waiting for the fire to consume
us all..... but that has nothing to do with yanni killing people... same with maynard
> >and its definitely NOT glorifying a deliberate terrorist act
> > the sole purpose of which is to kill people... he's saying "i hope some natural
> > disaster comes and wipes out all these losers" half jokingly
>
> But the content of the song could be interrpreted as Maynard not caring
> about the lives lost if a natural disaster could strike? That's a very
> sad thing, and I'd hate to see an actual disaster strike LA and the only
> condolensces that Mr. Keenan had to give were "learn to swim". But this
> is what Boots Riley from the Coup had to say:
>
> "The original intent of the cover was to use the World Trade Center to
> symbolise capitalism and was not supposed to be realistic in it's
> depiction, although there is an uncanny similarity. All life is precious
> and this tremendous tragedy is by no means taken lightly by The Coup. This
> is a very unfortunate coincidence and my condolences go out to the
> families and friends of the victims."
>
> My final point Jarrod: please don't let any petty or small-minded
> bigotries or prejudices, even if they are unbeknownst to you, get in your way of making
> judgements or forming opinions.
no problem, thats what i always do.... and this discussion has nothing to do with that....
do you honestly think i have a problem with the cover because i don't like hiphop? of
course not.... like i said before, if... oh lets say system of a down had done the EXACT
SAME COVER with Serj blowing up the world trade center, i would STILL FIND IT
OFFENSIVE..... i think its pretty sad that you think everyone is prejudiced.... its a
problem you have
> I'm not saying that you are a bigot, or
> prejudice.
yes you are
> But, It's funny that you're a fan of both Everlast and Rage -
> as am I- because one thing that is important to both of those artists is to make
> sure that empathy and a voice is given to ideas and people that aren't
> normally even recognized.
is the sermon over yet? yes, that last paragraph was true but that still has NOTHING to do
with the coup cover or this discussion
Jonathan Ashley
> Jonathan Ashley wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Jarrod wrote:
> >
> > > Nick wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jonathan Ashley <j...@oblivion.accessus.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:Pine.LNX.4.33.01091...@oblivion.accessus.net...
> > > > > On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Jarrod wrote:
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > Where? It shows a building EXPLODING...not people dying.
> > > >
> > > > Oh lord, that's classic.
> > >
> > > my thoughts exactly..... "it shows him pointing a gun at someone with a
> > > bullet hurtling through the air towards his head.... it doesn't show
> > > anyone dying!"
> > Those are two different things Jarrod, and once again you make aberrent
> > arguments.
> >
> > I suppose when I see pictures of demolition experts destroying buildings,
> > old stadiums, and the like, that THEY are killing people as well--right??
>
> no because when a decrepit old stadium is imploded of course there's no one
> in there....
So not every picture of a building exploding has people inside of it?
>but when you stand there blowing up the world trade center
> (where people are obviously inside)
How are people obviously inside?
>with a grin on your face, you are
> obviously killing people.....
This reminds me of an old "tolerance" test from the mid-90's where they
would show people pictures of other people and ask who the criminal was,
and in almost every case a white person who would consider himself
"liberal" or such would say the person with brown skin. But in actuality
the pictures were of the same people with just different skin colors thru
a computer program.
>AND, if there were no people inside then what
> is the point of the cover?
We've explained this to you countless times now.
>the point is to show Boots destroying the
> capitalist system..... blowing up any random empty building does not do that,
Blowing up the world trade center does that.
> but blowing up a world trade center full of people has an impact....
When the album chornicles people who've been hurt and killed by capitalism
I think the man is a bit smarter than to think he can fight fire with
fire, and that killing WORKING PEOPLE in a building that represents
capitalism is any better.
Yanni the Great
> would show people pictures of other people and ask who the criminal was,
> and in almost every case a white person who would consider himself
> "liberal" or such would say the person with brown skin. But in actuality
> the pictures were of the same people with just different skin colors thru
> a computer program.
wow ive never heard of these, do you have a link where i can read and see
these pics?
Jonathan Ashley
> > > lame... put 2 and 2 together..... hmm, building full of people exploding....
> >
> > Maybe instead of putting "2 and 2 together" and jumping to wild
> > accusations, like you accuse me of always doing, you should listen to the
> > man's lyrics and find out that he doesn't support murder like that.
>
> then why is there a picture of him killing people on the cover?
Again. We've had this conversation time and again, and you haven't budged
an inch. It's going to be pointless in this forum Jarrod. you're going
to have to learn some things in life at one point. But go ahead and read
on...
>once again, i FULLY
> UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF THE PICTURE.... and once again i feel that it was innapropriate...
> but i'm not dissing your beloved coup for fucks sake
You're "dissing" yourself, as I've pointed out in the past few days.
> > > > And as I said
> > > > before hand, it relates to a lyric about destroying capitalism that
> > > > destroys people. The man would be a hypocrite if he were to say that he
> > > > hated businesses that "murdered babies" while he raps about killing
> > > > others. Which he doesn't do.
> > >
> > > even if he doesn't rap about it, he DID put it on the cover of his album....
> >
> > And we're juding a book by his cover?
>
> yes we are, because smack dab on the cover of the album is a picture of the frontman
> killing people.... there is no way around that
Things aren't this black and white Jarrod.
How can YOUR "beloved" bands use imagery of death and murder,
and there is always an EXPLANATION for it, and they always rise above it?
> > > > But Rage has had covers that have depicted hangings, molotav cocktails,
> > > > and guns. Things that aren't associated with bringing life into this
> > > > world...
> > >
> > > bringing life into the world? that is totally irrelevant... rage has never had a
> > > cover depicting the deaths of thousands of people....
> >
> > And neither does this artwork. It shows the destruction of a building.
> > There is a world of difference.
>
> it shows the destruction of a building full of people.... how do i know that? because there
> are ALWAYS people inside the world trade center, that is a FACT....
And the "FACT" still remains that you haven't heard the album have you?
You've judged a book by a cover and haven't even looked into the situation
moreso. You haven't even looked into their "politics" because if you did
you'd know they were closely aligned with Rage. And I know you haven't
done this because you contradict yourself later when you say the Coup's
politics differ from Rage's because Rage fights "authority".
>he wasn't blowing up
> "just a building"... he was blowing up the world trade center.... and if he truly was
> destroying "just a building" then what is the point to the picture?
We've explained this, and Boots has explained this time and again. Do you
even bother to read a message before you reply?
>nobody makes a statement by blowing up just any empty building.... people
> make statements by blowing up the world trade center... and when you do that, people die...
> its kinda the point
Should Zack and Maynard should keep that in mind in the future?
No matter what stories they may be trying to tell that use death or murder
as imagery, there is no point. People die and that's it. It's very sad,
so make no point...
> > Because the evil empire artwork is the #1 sign to rage hating white people
> > for people who are too silly to look into things. They see an image of a
> > white person, the words evil, and a multicultural band and assume that
> > they hate white people. Without looking into the band's message...
> >
> > Does any of this sound familiar Jarrod?
>
> no because what you said just made no sense... nobody looks at the evil empire cover and
> assumes rage hates white people... that has never happened...
MORE friggin assumptions Jarrod. Your ignorance wouldn't be so bad
if it werne't coupled with arrogance.
*I'VE* had conversations with people who've thought that Rage hate white
people because of the EE cover. Countless times, and I can
give you names.
GAVIN has had conversations with people who thought this, so much so that he took time
out of the FAQ to explain that they don't!
> > >was it just the first thing that popped into your head,
> > > even if it didn't make sense?
> >
> > The parts that did make "sense", including the t-shirts showing malatov
> > cocktails, singles with families and guns, and black men hanging from the
> > statue of liberty, you just decided not to comment on?
>
> these things all refer to people taking down authority....
Again: you justify things that you agree with, and demonize things that
you don't agree with.
And how is the WTC not an authority?
And keep in mind your posting on a board for a band in which the guitarist
said that the loss of innocent human life was a part of revolution.
>molotov cocktails to fight the
> war with, etc.....
When the KKK uses them they are for fighting a war, and for fighting an
unjust authority?
>those things have nothing to do with murdering thousands of INNOCENTS...
The Klan have always taken out those uppity and guilty niggers then
haven't they?
> > Like *these* images?:
> > http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/23.jpg
> > http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/22.jpg
> > http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/18.jpg
> > http://www.musicfanclubs.org/rage/pictures/imagery/15.jpg
> > http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0014.jpg
> > http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0019.jpg
> >
> > Or how about this BOMB flying into a house from some Rage art?
> > http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/covers/adn0018.jpg
> >
> > Are those considered distasteful?
> my god i never really thought i would meet a person this THICK in my life.... the bomb
> about to land on the house represents the SYSTEM.... a MILITARY PLANE killing innocents....
> the image is meant to show you how WRONG the scene is..... the coup cover is meant to seem
> cool that he's killing people, which is the opposite message.... thanks for linking to that
> pic cause it proves me right
No, you proved me right.
The Coup have the same set of political beliefs as Rage, but you demonize
the Coup cover and justify and explain the Rage cover. When the Coup
build songs on populice working class stories in the same vein that Rage
do in a track like "Maria".
And it's funny that a HOUSE can represent the 'SYSTEM', but the WORLD
TRADE CENTER can't... Think about everything that you've just said here
Jarrod...
And when the man goes out and explains the cover for the album, you still
disagree with him, and tell him (AND HIS LYRICS) that it means he's
supposed to be "cool" for killing people. Because that's what those
uppity black rappers do all the time right? Become cool by killing
people?
> the aaliyah death thing was me saying that i didn't feel sad for her... it had nothing to
> do with race or music.... i still don't see what you're getting at
For you to grasp once the idea that you may feel empathy or emotional
attachment to things that are related to white people, and have no
connection at all to things that are related to black people. It was a
question, and something I wanted you to consider - not an accusation.
> > >if my favorite band made an album cover showing the singer
> > > > > murdering thousands of people i would still find it to be in bad taste
> > > >
> > > > And when tool says in Aenima that they want the city of los angeles to
> > > > fall off into the ocean, and for everyone to "learn to swim" when it
> > > > happens??? What is that? Is that still in bad taste? It is a
> > > > description that could lead to the death of thousands of people...
> > >
> > > hehe ok you got me.... but thats figurative.....
> >
> > And so is the COUP artwork. I don't think they went out and blew up the
> > building and took a picture of it? And if they did I'm *very* suprised
> > they aren't arrested yet.
>
> the tool cover does not depict thousands of innocent people dying at the hands of the
> frontman
But the FRONTMAN wrote the lyrics to a song where innocent people will
die from a catastrophe. And then he says 'LEARN TO SWIM'.
> > >that isn't a picture of maynard
> > > murdering people....
> >
> > He paints of picture with his lyrical imagery though.
>
> no he doesn't.... when does he paint a picture of him murdering people?
Well first off, lyrics to lyrics, Boots never on the entire album says
that he will kill people who are in the WTC - he says he wants to destroy
capitalist shrines. But you've ignored that time and again, so what's the
point. But as for Maynard's lyrics:
"Some say the end is near...
I certainly hope we will.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this bullshit three ring circus sideshow
of Freaks
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied.
Learn to swim.
Fuck all those gun-toting Hip gangster wannabes.
Learn to swim.
Cuz I'm praying for rain and I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it go right in and down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
*Watch you flush it all away.*
Don't just call me pessimist. "
Real chipper guy their full of built up optimism for his fellow human
beings. As opposed to The Coup's optimism and their hatred for whitey in
this song of theirs:
"I raise this glass for the ones who die meaninglessly
And the newborns who get fed intravenously
Despair permeates the air then sets in your ear
The kids play with that one toy they learned how to share
You feel like crying but you think that you might never stop
Homes with no heat stiffen your joints like arthritis
If this was fiction, it'd be easier to write this
Some folks try to front like they so above you
They'd tear this motherfucker up if they really loved you"
Bastard. </sarcasm>
>never.... he says
> he hopes the end is near... kinda like when yanni says he's waiting for the fire to consume
> us all..... but that has nothing to do with yanni killing people... same with maynard
Thanks again for giving weight and empathy to ideas that are close to you.
> > >and its definitely NOT glorifying a deliberate terrorist act
> > > the sole purpose of which is to kill people... he's saying "i hope some natural
> > > disaster comes and wipes out all these losers" half jokingly
> >
> > But the content of the song could be interrpreted as Maynard not caring
> > about the lives lost if a natural disaster could strike? That's a very
> > sad thing, and I'd hate to see an actual disaster strike LA and the only
> > condolensces that Mr. Keenan had to give were "learn to swim". But this
> > is what Boots Riley from the Coup had to say:
> >
> > "The original intent of the cover was to use the World Trade Center to
> > symbolise capitalism and was not supposed to be realistic in it's
> > depiction, although there is an uncanny similarity. All life is precious
> > and this tremendous tragedy is by no means taken lightly by The Coup. This
> > is a very unfortunate coincidence and my condolences go out to the
> > families and friends of the victims."
Again we'd like to point out that Jarrod didn't reply to this. Well "I
guess he just proved my point." </sarcasm>
> > My final point Jarrod: please don't let any petty or small-minded
> > bigotries or prejudices, even if they are unbeknownst to you, get in your way of making
> > judgements or forming opinions.
>
> no problem, thats what i always do....
No it hasn't Jarrod. You've had a long line in the year or so that I've
been on this board of not giving a SECOND to an idea that has nothing to
do with your own.
>and this discussion has nothing to do with that....
And it does.
> do you honestly think i have a problem with the cover because i don't like hiphop?
Regardless. It's up to you to prove me wrong on this, by your actions
or your thougts, and I've given you time after time to do so.
>of
> course not.... like i said before, if... oh lets say system of a down had done the EXACT
> SAME COVER with Serj blowing up the world trade center, i would STILL FIND IT
> OFFENSIVE.....
And I've shown you covers and lyrics to bands that you like that indicate
mass murder and you've either had no problem with it, or you could defend
it somehow.
NEITHER of which you've given to the Coup album.
>i think its pretty sad that you think everyone is prejudiced.... its a
> problem you have
Show me ONCE where I have said that everyone is prejudice! No, I honestly
want this because this bullshit that comes from you, and Ryan, and other
bastards on this board is coming to an end right now. For god's sake,
KRON of all people has given me a chance to explain myself before jumping
to call me names like racist and prejudice. KRON!!! The person who's
name for so long was associated with TROLL!
Again, this is me giving me more respect than your punk ass deserves. I have asked you
question after question to understand your point of view, but you jump to
conclusion, after conclusion, about me and where I stand, and have been
proven wrong.
Even if I DO have an assumption about what you think I'll give you the
chance to prove me wrong. You HAVE NEVER done this.
Like close to TWO years ago when you said for someone who was trying to
turn people onto hip hop, and validate it as an artform to them (or
whatever the hell your words were), that I didn't like "white" music, and
was close-mineded. People on this VERY BOARD came out
and said that I'd had a wider taste of music than that, and hadn't even
talked to them about rap music once.
You are putting words into MY mouth this time and every time. I've asked
you questions, and questioned how you stood on certain issues and how it
relates to you. But I have not name-called or labeled you anything.
> > I'm not saying that you are a bigot, or
> > prejudice.
>
> yes you are
There you go again! Show me one time where I have called you a bigot or
said that you were prejudice. Those are choices people make. I've
pointed out that every young person in this country is conditioned to
believe certain things and we should be constantly aware of it -
especially you. I have NOT called you a bigot, or called you prejudice
once.
I wish that *I* could say that you haven't insinuated the same thing about
me!
> > But, It's funny that you're a fan of both Everlast and Rage -
> > as am I- because one thing that is important to both of those artists is to make
> > sure that empathy and a voice is given to ideas and people that aren't
> > normally even recognized.
>
> is the sermon over yet? yes, that last paragraph was true but that still has NOTHING to do
> with the coup cover or this discussion
You don't even want to learn do you?
Last night I was reading a book, and an excerpt in it was about culture
and race, and the author (who was white) pointed out that it is pointless
for "white" people to want to learn about new cultures, or even establish
their own, becaue their being groomed to be the boss of an entire world -
so why should they get bogged down over little things. I'm thinking of
YOU now Jarrod.
Jonathan Ashley
Can you give me one day? Someone I know was talking about them last week,
but I won't see them again until tomorrow...
Jarrod
[snip]
this whole thing is just going in circles..... i've given up on this debate as it is hopelessly
deadlocked and frankly i'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over, as i'm sure you are
too
Yanni the Great
> but I won't see them again until tomorrow...
NO i want them NOW NOW NOW!!!!!!!!! whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! ok sir you
have one day :-)
Jonathan Ashley
> Jonathan Ashley wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> this whole thing is just going in circles..... i've given up on this debate as it is hopelessly
> deadlocked and frankly i'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over, as i'm sure you are
> too
No. I responded the the parts that went in circles and said they were
useless and silly, and asked questions for elaborations.
This was a cop-out and I wish I could say that I expected more from you.
WegnerWils
with rages politics is foolish
boots dont want anybody dead....except maybe his landlord of course
"I want your heart. I want to eat your children.'' --Mike Tyson
"Of all the forms of inequality, injustice in health care is the most shocking
and inhuman"
MLK
King Mob
>
I thought you were kinda wrong on this one, Jon.. most of that Rage art you
showed was unreleased. For all we know it was unreleased BECAUSE the band
members found it distasteful.
The plane dropping the bomb on the house wasn't meant to show that the house
was the system, it was meant to show that the plane was the system, and that
the system kills innocents. It was "look at the plane dropping a bomb on the
suburb, instead of a third world village like you're used to, then see what you
think about bombings."
The Coup cover consists of the group members, the MC holding the remote, and
the towers blowing up. Now, I am one of those people who would've seen that and
gone "heh heh, cool" and not thought about whether it was in good taste or not.
But I can understand how some people would find that offensive, and I don't
think it's really comparable to any of that other art you showed.
On the other hand, Jarrod, the Aenema lyrics, which are metaphor, are
comparable to the Coup cover, which is also a metaphor. So you shouldn't really
have that double standard I don't think.
---------------------
straight to hell, boys...
Jonathan Ashley
The Coup art is unreleased as well...
On 17 Sep 2001, King Mob wrote:
> >This was a cop-out and I wish I could say that I expected more from you.
> >
>
> I thought you were kinda wrong on this one, Jon.. most of that Rage art you
> showed was unreleased. For all we know it was unreleased BECAUSE the band
> members found it distasteful.
>
King Mob
>
>The Coup art is unreleased as well...
>
true, but they were planning to release it and would have if a wildly unlikely
event that matched the picture exactly hadn't occurred.
Can't say "let's end this" and try to throw in the last word, silly :-)
Rodeo Whore
"Jarrod" <jd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3BA56B20...@earthlink.net...
Okay, I didn't get around to reading this until now, so even though this
discussion is "over" I just wanted to make a few comments that I noticed
others didn't pick up on.
> > i think that picture was in bad taste even before the attack occurred
but you didn't see it before the attacks took place, so how can you say that
for sure? hind-sight is always 20/20.... chances are, if this never
happened, that most people, including myself, would probably see that cover
in the store and not even react to it - and most importantly, not equate it
to the killing of thousands of innocent people.
> > And neither does this artwork. It shows the destruction of a building.
> > There is a world of difference.
>
> it shows the destruction of a building full of people.... how do i know
that? because there
> are ALWAYS people inside the world trade center, that is a FACT.... he
wasn't blowing up
> "just a building"... he was blowing up the world trade center.... and if
he truly was
> destroying "just a building" then what is the point to the picture? there
is no power
> behind that..... nobody makes a statement by blowing up just any empty
building.... people
> make statements by blowing up the world trade center... and when you do
that, people die...
> its kinda the point
Your thoughts, though I understand, are somewhat illogical - of course,
there is no point to blowing up "just a building" that is why he blew up
the WTC in the picture. Now that doesn't automatically equate to the
picture being that of thousands of people dying. It's a SYMBOL....There is
power behind it though - how can you not see that? He is blowing up the
WORLD TRADE CENTER...not just a random building. It's not the people
working inside the WTC that make it a symbol of capitalism, it's the
building itself, and that's also what he's trying to show - what else would
you depict on a cover if you were trying to show the destruction of
capitalism? He picked the first thing that people equate with it, and he
showed it as a *building*, there aren't people dying in the picture, body
parts flying around in the blast etc. that would be tasteless.
>
> > Are those considered distasteful?
>
> my god i never really thought i would meet a person this THICK in my
life.... the bomb
> about to land on the house represents the SYSTEM.... a MILITARY PLANE
killing innocents....
See, this is where you show how hypocritical your thoughts have been. So,
basically, it's okay for rage to show something symbolically...but not other
people. It's okay for Rage to show a bomb about to land on a house *which
could have people in it, which would depict the death of an innocent person
or persons* because the house represents the "system"....but it's not okay
for another group to show something symbolically - a bomb blowing up a
building - even though the building is just being shown because it
represents capitalism. So let's get this straight - Rage shows the "system"
being blown up, and it's okay, the Coup shows "capitalism" being blown up,
and it's not okay. How does your system of thought work here?
--
~<3~
Sandy
- lavender haunted you, so I could only laugh in yellow - jewel -
..... http://www.envy.nu/angeloflove
King Mob
>being blown up, and it's okay, the Coup shows "capitalism" being blown up,
>and it's not okay. How does your system of thought work here?
I think you misinterpreted jarrod here too. The HOUSE isn't the system, the
PLANE is the system. The depiction is of the SYSTEM doing something evil, not
the "revolutionary." As an indictment, then, that picture doesn't need
justification. It's like Goya's painting "3rd of May" or something else that
indicts the system. The coup picture was of the revolutionary committing the
act against the system, which is an advocation, not an indictment. Just so we
understand what Jarrod said.. he can tell me if I'm wrong
Jarrod
> On the other hand, Jarrod, the Aenema lyrics, which are metaphor, are
> comparable to the Coup cover, which is also a metaphor. So you shouldn't really
> have that double standard I don't think.
yeah, thats why i said "hehe, ok you got me"... but i do think its a little
different.... either way, this wasn't a cop out..... how is getting bored of saying
the same thing over and over a cop out? can nobody EVER just end a fight when
they're sick of it? yeah jon, i'm really going to repeat this over and over to
you..... whats that you say? you have to have the last word?
Jarrod
> > > Are those considered distasteful?
> >
> > my god i never really thought i would meet a person this THICK in my
> life.... the bomb
> > about to land on the house represents the SYSTEM.... a MILITARY PLANE
> killing innocents....
>
> See, this is where you show how hypocritical your thoughts have been. So,
> basically, it's okay for rage to show something symbolically...but not other
> people. It's okay for Rage to show a bomb about to land on a house *which
> could have people in it, which would depict the death of an innocent person
> or persons* because the house represents the "system"....but it's not okay
> for another group to show something symbolically - a bomb blowing up a
> building - even though the building is just being shown because it
> represents capitalism. So let's get this straight - Rage shows the "system"
> being blown up, and it's okay, the Coup shows "capitalism" being blown up,
> and it's not okay. How does your system of thought work here?
christ, calm down and THINK about what i said because you start making
judgements.... and you are completely off about the meaning of the pictures....
the house is the innocent people..... the bomb/plane is the SYSTEM KILLING
INNOCENTS..... rage is using this picture to show how wrong it is...... the coup
cover shows that killing/destruction is good...... they are complete opposites,
making your argument invalid..... seriously try to understand a post before you
reply to it next time
Jonathan Ashley
> King Mob wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, Jarrod, the Aenema lyrics, which are metaphor, are
> > comparable to the Coup cover, which is also a metaphor. So you shouldn't really
> > have that double standard I don't think.
>
> yeah, thats why i said "hehe, ok you got me"... but i do think its a little
> different.... either way, this wasn't a cop out..... how is getting bored of saying
> the same thing over and over a cop out? can nobody EVER just end a fight when
> they're sick of it?
I neversaid otherwise.
But I asked you specific questions when I responded to your intial set of
responses. Those questions were for clairfications on other things, and
on the answers you gave. When you refused to answer those "hard hitting"
questions, that's when I said you copped out. Because it was...
>yeah
jon, i'm really going to repeat this over and
over to > you.....
*I* responded in my final reply to you (as it were) that I would not touch
on points that have been mentioned time and again. You would not have
kept on repeating yourself.
>whats that you say? you have to have the last word?
Jackass says whats?