Looking for Pimps
MrWack
We're looking for "pimps" to copy the Crystal Ball CD set and get it to
people who are fed up with the way NPG Retail is run, but still would like
to get their hands on Crystal Ball's tracks. We could convert the songs
and stick them all on a single CD or just copy them onto tapes... and get
them to the "true" fans for the cost of the tape and shipping.
Email if you're interested in being a pimp or receiving a copy of the
Crystal Ball set.
peace,
Mr. Wack
Chronic f
>Subject: Looking for Pimps
>From: mrw...@aol.com (MrWack)
>Date: 30 Jul 1997 07:05:52 GMT
>Message-ID: <19970730070...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
Lou, this is out of funkin control. Take into consideration that Crystal
Ball probably has tracks culled from a number of years. Therefore it is
safe to assume that numerous musicians were involved in the recordings.
Each of them would have to get paid for the tracks that they worked on
when the CD is finally released. (paid for X number of copies sold) I
would assume that this means the lawyers are called in...
Things like that take time. I will admit that I am annoyed that it has
been 45 days since I preordered and still no Ball. And I'm quite pissed
that the rest of my order is being held up until the CB is ready. (just
gave you more ammo against New Funk...) But a three (with the Truth, 4)
disc set would be sold by booters for $60 to $80. Better to give the man
(and the people who played on the album) that money. If not, you are
giving a royal "fuck ya'all" to the artist that you are completely
obsessed with.
That would be basically begging him not to record any new material for the
reat of his life.
I don't like the way that things are done in his organization (a misnomer
in this case...) For one thing why, isn't he selling CB on his tour? If
O(+> wants to hire me to help out I'll consider moving to Chanhassen to
try to set things straight. (first off, I'll pay for a new phone system
with my OWN cash) He shouldn't have to worry about any of this shit, and
we should only have to worry about the music.
By the way, if anyone wants to preorder but doesn't want to wait on the
phone or email that info, SEND A MONEY ORDER TO NPG. Just call New Funk
and hit the option for money orders to learn about the postage rates.
BSpie07
mrw...@aol.com (MrWack) hypocritically wrote:
<<We're looking for "pimps" to copy the Crystal Ball CD set and get it
to>>
Lou, advertising an illegal service via AOL is a direct violation of your
AOL terms of service. You complain about others doing this, and then have
the audacity to do it yourself. I ought to TOS you just on principle.
Your even doing this on a service in which you vowed NEVER to use.
Bwhahahaha!!!! The only thing your "pimping" is yourself.....and pretty
cheaply at that!
JRitten451
>Subject: Looking for Pimps
>From: mrw...@aol.com (MrWack)
>Date: 30 Jul 1997 07:05:52 GMT
>Message-ID: <19970730070...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>
>We're looking for "pimps" to copy the Crystal Ball CD set and get it to
>people who are fed up with the way NPG Retail is run, but still would
like
>to get their hands on Crystal Ball's tracks. We could convert the songs
>and stick them all on a single CD or just copy them onto tapes... and get
>them to the "true" fans for the cost of the tape and shipping.
>
>Email if you're interested in being a pimp or receiving a copy of the
>Crystal Ball set.
>
>peace,
>Mr. Wack
>
>
No here's where we disagree.
Peace anyways.
JuvenileHi
>Therefore it is
>safe to assume that numerous musicians were involved in the recordings.
>Each of them would have to get paid for the tracks that they worked on
>when the CD is finally released.
Musicians do not recieve royalties. Songwriters do, and Prince does, but
he pays musicians a salary which more than likely includes recording time.
Why do you think paisley Park is in minnesota? I bet it's because they
don't have a musician's union. Therefore he doesn't have to pay them
squat for playing on his records. In LA, New York, and Nashville you
can't set foot in a studio as a musician without being in the union. The
union has standard fees the musicians must be paid for their time. I
would guess prince doesn't pay that much. But I don't know...just a
guess.
Lee
uh-oh. I have a Web page
http://members.aol.com/JuvenileHi/index.html
Now I offically don't have a life.
JuvenileHi
>So I guess by your logic, the Fugees never got a cent for their
>recording of Killing me Softly. And also John Bonham was paid as a
session
>musician for his Led Zepplin work, never getting a cent for the millions
>of albums that they sold.
No, you miss my point entirely. The Fugees are a group, they are all the
artist, so of course they would share in the artist royalties. The
composers of their songs (whether it be whoever wrote "Killing me Softly"
or "No Woman No Cry" or the original tunes on the CD...the writers get the
songwriting royalty...Of course John Bonham shared in the Led Zeppelin
artist royalties, he was in the Band...
But Levi, Sheila E, Boni Boyer, Matt Fink, Wendy, Lisa, Brown Mark, Eric
Leeds, Eddie M, Michael Bland, Sonny T, Tommy Barbarella, Mr. Hayes etc
etc etc are not "Prince". They don't have the contract with NPG records,
EMI records, Warner Bros records...Prince does/did. Atlantic signed led
Zeppelin...Sire signed "Talking Heads"...but Prince is the only one signed
on his deals...so he hires a band, puts them on salary, and takes 'em in
the studio. Warner Bros, EMI, etc. don't give a hoot who is on Prince
records as long as he appears, because he is the one with the deal. So he
gets all the money from record artist royalties. The only time band
members get any action from sales is when they have a writing credit,
registered at the Library of Congress (not just "Written by Prince and the
Revolution" on his liner notes. Wendy and Lisa have a few writer credits,
I believe Matt fink had one or two...but they certainly weren't considered
part of the "act" when Prince signed his contract with Warners. Am I
getting through? They are musicians for hire...Led Zeppelin IS the
artist, not Jimmy Page and Robert Plant. Sure, the CD jacket may say
"Prince and the Revolution" or "prince and the NPG", but the members of
those bands always changed, and they rarely ever showed up on the CD's as
players anyways. OK, the NPG did, but I would bet my big Coke Bottle that
they don't recieve artist royalties. I would bet they got a weekly check
for their services, and once they stop working for Prince, they are off
the payroll. Maybe Michael Nelson can chime in here and support my
position, or maybe not.
Michael?
Patrick Andrew Norris
On 31 Jul 1997, JuvenileHi wrote:
:>>Therefore it is
:>>safe to assume that numerous musicians were involved in the recordings.
:>>Each of them would have to get paid for the tracks that they worked on
:>>when the CD is finally released.
:>Musicians do not recieve royalties. Songwriters do, and Prince does, but
:>he pays musicians a salary which more than likely includes recording time.
:> Why do you think paisley Park is in minnesota? I bet it's because they
:>don't have a musician's union. Therefore he doesn't have to pay them
:>squat for playing on his records. In LA, New York, and Nashville you
:>can't set foot in a studio as a musician without being in the union. The
:>union has standard fees the musicians must be paid for their time. I
:>would guess prince doesn't pay that much. But I don't know...just a
:>guess.
:>Lee
:>uh-oh. I have a Web page
:> http://members.aol.com/JuvenileHi/index.html
:> Now I offically don't have a life.
Probably true to a certain degree... I remember someone talking about
knowing Boni Boyer and, how Prince would upset her by sampling her voice
in the studio so that he wouldn't have to pay her for extra studio time.
So I suppose they only get payed for the time, but not for the sale of
the units.
It's also interesting that Prince wants to own the masters to his albums,
but do the musicians get masters to the tracks they did? I wonder how
Sonny and Tommy and everybody felt when he called himself a "slave."
Rosie was quoted saying that D&P was a New Power Generation album, but
not everybody got their individual credits. So they, in effect, were
owned by Prince and WB. Just a thought...
Keepin it real...
Patrick Andrew Norris
"What is this trick to mix the vibe?
What evil keeps this love alive?"
'Early Spring, Early Fall'
personal: http://www2.msstate.edu/~pan1
O(+> Resources: .../pages/TheArtist.html
A.S. McGuire
thanks for breaking it down...could you help me understand something..
remember in the early eighties when Morris and the Time would complain
about not being paid enough by prince? My question is, Why would prince
have those guys on the payroll, if they were their own Act?
i know he was the ghost writer on most of their songs, but shouldn't
the Time have gotten paid by Warners and not prince?
Hey Rhastus jump in here, you are "The Time" guy...
thanks,
a.s.
Dr. Phunkenstine
On 31 Jul 1997, JuvenileHi wrote:
<speculative bs snipped>
> Why do you think paisley Park is in minnesota? I bet it's because they
because they is where he has lived all of his life (a la the oprah
interview)
>
> Lee
>
> Now I offically don't have a life.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
mmmmmm, could be....
------------------------------------------
The Doctor
Everything is possible but nothing is real.
-V. Reid
-------------------------------------------
JuvenileHi
>remember in the early eighties when Morris and the Time would complain
>about not being paid enough by prince? My question is, Why would prince
>have those guys on the payroll, if they were their own Act?
>
>i know he was the ghost writer on most of their songs, but shouldn't
>the Time have gotten paid by Warners and not prince?
>
>Hey Rhastus jump in here, you are "The Time" guy...
>
>thanks,
>a.s.
My guess on The Time is they were employees of Prince and never recieved
artist royalties for their sales. He "created" the band, he wrote the
songs, he played most of the music on the albums with Morris overdubbing
the vocals...But this is an interesting question. They were a "band", so
who got the artist royalties? Anyone?
Lee
uh-oh. I have a Web page
http://members.aol.com/JuvenileHi/index.html
LionSkin1
>Subject: Re: PIMPS/ The TIME
>From: MCG...@webtv.net (A.S. McGuire)
>
>remember in the early eighties when Morris and the Time would complain
>about not being paid enough by prince? My question is, Why would prince
>have those guys on the payroll, if they were their own Act?
>
>
I also remember reading how the label (WB) pushed for the original Time
members for the Pandemonium project, that was the only way they would
release it. So I think the label had some say in who is on the record(s)
Prince released. I think everyone had their own negotiations with Prince.
I don't think The Time was any more their own band than The Family was or
Madhouse was. Pandemonium had some other stuff on it, surely because Jam
& Lewis negotiated that with Prince in the terms of their returning and
releasing the album, and appearing in the movie.
Aren't studio musicians like private contractors? Didn't I read something
on Sheila E's web page about booking her? Maybe I was dreaming. Anyway,
if I hired her to come to my studio, and record vocals for one hour, and
she signs a contract that states that I have the right to sample her voice
for any recordings I might do, than legally, I could record 5 albums and
rework her voice into every track. I make 50 million from sales of the
albums, all she got was the $100 for the hour's worth of vocals, and
that's all she'll ever get, Right? Isn't that what happened to Martha
Wash with C & C Music Factory? Hardly seems fair. But then again, I
purchase a software program (Sheila's voice), use it in my business
(Prince's works), and then everytime I use it for a different transaction
(album sales), would I want to pay royalties to the software creator
(Sheila)? Hell no!
Pondering...
CHUCK
-the jiffy wiffy waffle eater!
http://members.aol.com/LionSkin1/index.html
Rhastus69
Since I was invited I guess I'ii jump in.I'm no expert, but heres
my take on the subject. An artist is payed in serveral ways. They are
payed a fee and a percentage of their sales. So say Ice-T
does a rap album. He would get a flat fee plus a percentage of
his sales. In turn if Bodycount does an album the whole group would be
paid. Artists are also paid royalties on their publishing
so who ever writes the song gets paid a percentage if the song
is covered by someone else or used in a commericial or movie
or if its used in a sample. Prince put the Time together wrote and
recorded all of the stuff and Morris redid the vocals. Prince owns
the rights to the name so it seems to me he gets the money. I remember
somebody in the prince camp complaining that they were only getting $140 a
week or something in the 80's. Thats probably why all these people go solo
they see the stuff selling and are involved in one way or another and
arn't getting paid for it
If you think of it in a busines since say its more profitable for
Jessse Johnson to go solo and sale 250,000 albums since he wrote and
played everything than to be in the Time, sale a million copies and get
paid by Prince. That's also probably why the group is billed as Morris Day
and the Time on their current tour. Prince
owns the rights to the name. Don't know if that made it any clearer
or not, but I tried
Rhastus
A.S. McGuire
thanks..
Dr. Phunkenstine
On 31 Jul 1997, JuvenileHi wrote:
> >So I guess by your logic, the Fugees never got a cent for their
> >recording of Killing me Softly. And also John Bonham was paid as a
> session
> >musician for his Led Zepplin work, never getting a cent for the millions
> >of albums that they sold.
>
> No, you miss my point entirely. The Fugees are a group, they are all the
<snip>
Lee had a point (which i snipped) that was correct. "Led Zepplin" gets
paid for "Led Zepplin" albums; if they split up and did solo work "Led
Zepplin" wouldn't get paid for it, only the musician involved. The same
with musicians associated with the artist. the same with anyone, for
example, the Wu-Tang clan. As a unit, they are released (and paid) by Loud
Records. As solo acts they can release anything they want. Method Man, the
genius, raekwon the chef, Ol Dirty, Ghostface, they all released solo
projects for different record labels (Def Jam, Elektra, etc) "Wu-Tang"
didn't get paid but the solo artists did. Understand? Good.
JuvenileHi
>An artist is payed in serveral ways. They are
>payed a fee and a percentage of their sales. So say Ice-T
>does a rap album. He would get a flat fee plus a percentage of
>his sales. In turn if Bodycount does an album the whole group would be
>paid.
Well, except in rare cases (R.E.M., Aerosmith, Rolling Stones) an artist
is not paid a flat fee. Typically, the label will give the artist an
"advance" for recording the album and living expenses. The label keeps
all the money from album sales until the artists' "advance" is recouped
(paid back). They also give advances to make videos, which are also
recoupable. If the label also owns the publishing on the artists' songs,
they will recoup advance money from Publishing royalties as well. An
artiss typically makes a little less than a dollar per unit sold. Garth
Brooks gets 50 percent of wholesale, minus record club and promotional
copies (about 5 bucks a CD), but TLC got less than a dollar a disc. Split
that three ways, and you've got about 30 cents a TLCer. Multiply 30 cents
times 8 million, and you come up with about 24,000 dollars per TLCer. Or
maybe 240,000...my math is bad...but you get the point...They sold a ton
of records and didn't get squat. I'm sure the label gave them hefty
advances, and then recouped the money from royalties. This, my friends,
is how come TLC declared bankruptcy. If an artist is able to tour on a
hit record, well, that's a completely different story. They can get set
for life on one successful world tour. Unfortunately for TLC, they
haven't really toured. If they had written any of the songs on their CD,
they would recieve about 6 cents a song per unit sold. Not to mention
performance royalties (radio and club play) which, in country music,
averages out to 100,000 for a number one record. I'm sure the amount is
far greater in pop and rock.
Bye Bye
JuvenileHi
>Anyway,
>if I hired her to come to my studio, and record vocals for one hour, and
>she signs a contract that states that I have the right to sample her
voice
>for any recordings I might do, than legally, I could record 5 albums and
>rework her voice into every track.
You got it Jiffy. Paid per song or by the hour, not for any sales. Such
is the life of a studio musician.
Solomon
>Lee had a point (which i snipped) that was correct. "Led Zepplin" gets
>paid for "Led Zepplin" albums; if they split up and did solo work "Led
>Zepplin" wouldn't get paid for it, only the musician involved. The same
>with musicians associated with the artist. the same with anyone, for
>example, the Wu-Tang clan. As a unit, they are released (and paid) by Loud
>Records. As solo acts they can release anything they want. Method Man, the
>genius, raekwon the chef, Ol Dirty, Ghostface, they all released solo
>projects for different record labels (Def Jam, Elektra, etc) "Wu-Tang"
>didn't get paid but the solo artists did. Understand? Good.
Yes, but your example is slightly off ... :)
Wu-Tang all get paid the same amount no matter who does what (even from the
gross profits they make from their solo albums). They also each pay in 20% of
their profits back into the group. Check the Rolling Stone article from a
couple of months ago.
Dolphin
Solomon wrote:
> Yes, but your example is slightly off ... :)
> Wu-Tang all get paid the same amount no matter who does what (even
> from the
> gross profits they make from their solo albums). They also each pay
> in 20% of
> their profits back into the group. Check the Rolling Stone article
> from a
> couple of months ago.
So then they DIDN'T get paid the same. 20% is still 20% it's a very
noble thing to do, but they still don't make the same, and Dr.
Phunkenstine's principle is still just as correct. Let's say ODB grosses
$1,000,000 off recoed sales and Ghostface $2,000,000. That means ODB
would pay in $200,000 and Ghostface $400,000. That would leave ODB with
$800,000
& Ghostface with $1,600,000, so they aren't getting paid the SAME. Their
situation may as well be the same as donating to their favorite
charity....themselves. It's a good deal for the members whose solo
careers don't do so well, hell it's a GREAT deal for them, but it
doesn't change the original post one bit so there was no reason to pick
it apart. Wu-Tang still does not get paid from Ghostface's record sales
they get a donation. If Ghostface decided not to give his 20% Wu-Tang
would have no legal recourse against Ghostface. They would probably give
him da boot but that's about all they could do because they did not earn
any of his pennies, so that's where your POST was a little bit OFF....
Peace,
Dolphin
Michael Dean
Ya'll are right O(+> does own tha rights to the name "The Time". He
could have anybody in the group if he wanted. Anytime one of there songs
is played He's gettin paid. And he really doesent have to give the
members any money if he so chose. It all goes down to who owns tha
publishing rights, and O(+> owns that.
Now The Time and O(+> must have some kind of deal going on right now,
for them to be out there touring. In all likelihood(sp) he should be
getting a percentage everytime they do a show. I knew a releative of
Jeromes and he told me that O(+> just let them use tha name and play tha
songs and isnt askin for any money right now. I dont know how true that
is but thats what he told me.
aight Peace :)
Dolphin
Wow are you a brick or what? Read it again and post when you figure it
out. I guess I didn't spell it out plainly enough. It really is quite
simple.
Let me break it down into a 1 person scenario for you. Ghostface makes
$1,000,000 off his solo project and puts 20% of that onto the pot. The
pot is divided evenly among Wu-Tang's members. How much does Ghostface
stand to make off his solo project? How much did the others make?
ChaChing! Is the fog beginning to lift now?
Read what you wrote again also....if they all get the same CUT (how are
they gonna get the same "cut" off of independent solo projects) and then
put in 20% of that CUT.....now don't say you meant the cut that they put
in from solo projects isn't what you meant because that was our subject.
Lay off the weed, you may think a little clearer.
Solomon wrote:
> Well, the thing is... if they all get the same cut, and then put in
> 20%
> out of that cut, then they ALL GET PAID THE SAME...
>
> In article <33E4B393...@ibm.net>, Dolphin <dolph...@ibm.net>