artist tell NYTimes how he plans to soak his fans
WAM
Linda Ross wrote:
> One "L.Londell Mcmillian" described as the artist's "business partner
> and counsel", helped explain to the Times, amid palaver about the man's
> spiritual needs, how by sticking to the 100,000 copy preorder figure,
> the economies of scale are such that the man can make the Crystal Ball
> set for "$1.75" per piece, and charge $50 for it, thereby assuaging his
> spiritual spasms with the balm of filthy lucre.
What about the cost of recording, his time, the time of the musicians,
engineers, etc....anyhow in a free market economy..price has nothing to
do with costs.....the price is what people are WILLING to pay....if $50
is too high then poeple wont buy it.....
It is explained how he
> made more money off of "Emancipation" than "Purple Rain" (neglecting to
> add that he helped destroy his distributing company and precipitated the
> canning of his champion Charles Koppleman).
EMI was not destroyed....just restructured....and it really had nothing
to do with Prince....
"He makes all the music, he
> owns the studio, the costs are so low", that from Mr. Mcmillian. Of
> course, no knowledgeable souls were consulted who might point out the
> hidden costs of this scheme in terms of time and fan
> annoyance/exasperation.
I dont get this.....Emancipation was released less than a year ago and
it contains 36 songs.....you guys sometimes act as if he owes you this
music....
> change the business, he justs wants to switch the pockets the price
> gauged profits go into.
Why shouldnt the artist (small "a") get a bigger piece of the
pie....record execs are overpaid and wastefull....people like prince and
ani difranco are forcing labels to give performers better deals....
I dont mind $50 for three disc.....I paid $20 per CD to get half of
these songs on bootlegs and the quality sucked....at $50 its still a
bargain....LP's used to cost 8.99 but you only got 8-9 songs....20 years
later...you can find CD's on sale for 11.99-13.99....with at least
twelve songs and much better sound quality and durability.....factoring
in inflation...they're also a bargain.....
...CD's, concerts and entertainment in general are not a
necesity...price is driven by what people are willing to pay....Prince
or any other artist dont owe us anything....
Linda Ross
Checking out the Business section of the Times (which, mogul that I am,
I do every day), I saw that there was an article on the Artist and how
he was trying to "remake" (break) the music business using the Internet.
One "L.Londell Mcmillian" described as the artist's "business partner
and counsel", helped explain to the Times, amid palaver about the man's
spiritual needs, how by sticking to the 100,000 copy preorder figure,
the economies of scale are such that the man can make the Crystal Ball
set for "$1.75" per piece, and charge $50 for it, thereby assuaging his
made more money off of "Emancipation" than "Purple Rain" (neglecting to
add that he helped destroy his distributing company and precipitated the
owns the studio, the costs are so low", that from Mr. Mcmillian. Of
course, no knowledgeable souls were consulted who might point out the
hidden costs of this scheme in terms of time and fan
white, the lie to the Artists claims about the freeness of music, and
his BS about the evil of record companies who steal from the hapless
consumer when their per piece costs are so low. He doesn't want to
change the business, he justs wants to switch the pockets the price
to donate the net space, why bother with the extra 10 cents it might
cost to provide CD booklets with the $50 product, inflate your ticket
prices to Broadway levels under the guise of "charity" (don't bother
with a real stage set for your shows, couple of paper mache chinese
lions will do, why do anything to hurt the beautiful bottom line), and
do it all under the guise of "Spirituality" and "Freedom". Instead of a
gusher of low cost music, we get the shaft (looks just like the symbol)
while "Facedown", by a man who is starting to look like a pocket-sized
Don King. "Only in America"!
Frank Mazza
Edwin Marcial
I think this issue needs further investigation. If what Linda is stating
here is true, then these are serious charges against Prince. If you
people honestly believe that $50 is a fair price for a CD that costs
1.50 to make then you need to get off the drugs. Americans are becoming
to accostumed to price gouging in the entertainment industries. While
these entertainers are talented no one needs to be living like a
multi-billionare while the rest of us struggle to get by on an honest
days work.
WAM
The $1.50 is the cost of the CD itself....for a big record label the
cost is even cheaper....(the more you make of something, the cheaper it
becomes).....
Last time I checked, its not illegal in most free countries to make a
profit by utilizing your talents.......if the price is too high....you
dont have to buy it....there's no such thing as a "fair price"....for
example, How does a comic book, which sold for 20 cents 50 years ago now
sell for thousands?????....."price gouging" applies to necesities when
supply is scarse...like water, food, oil...not a CD from a perfomer who
has put out more than 20....in a market of millions of CD's to choose
from....
...sometimes its sound as if some of you are Prince music addicts...and
demand your fix......
Edwin Marcial
>
> Last time I checked, its not illegal in most free countries to make a
> profit by utilizing your talents.......if the price is too high....you
> dont have to buy it....there's no such thing as a "fair price"....for
> example, How does a comic book, which sold for 20 cents 50 years ago now
> sell for thousands?????....."price gouging" applies to necesities when
> supply is scarse...like water, food, oil...not a CD from a perfomer who
> has put out more than 20....in a market of millions of CD's to choose
> from....
You have a point in your definition of price gouging. So what do you
want to call it? Let me ask you this?
What do you do for a living? How much do you make? (don't answer these I
really don't want to know) Now ask yourself how much has Prince already
made. Countless millions. If he never worked another second in his life
he, his family and his families to come would be set for life living a
way of life that you and I could only dream of. And how did Prince get
so filthy rich. 1) Because he is an amazing talent 2) because you, I and
many others appreciate his talent and PAID for his music. We paid him.
We put the money in his pocket. Now I ask you, why does he need another
red cent? When is it time to say thanks to the people who put him there.
We made him rich by digging his music. For every prince fan I've
encountered in the past 12 years, I can name 25 other people who think
its crap. I've spent hours trying to convince people to get past the
image and get into the music to really appreciate the talent. My point
is, the fans have carried him and it hasn't always been easy. The bottom
line, we made him rich!
Now, as far as your argument, "if its too expensive, don't go, don't
pay". You could not be more right. So who goes, those that can afford
it. Is music, like Sports eventually only for the rich. I live in
Atlanta, try to go to a Braves game and its $20 a ticket, $4 a hot dog,
, $3 a coke, $10 to park, etc. So what do I say, forget it I'm not
paying, I can't (really won't) afford it but I think its a disgrace
because it has created a social boundry where only the rich or at least
very well off can afford to enjoy the game. So what do you do as a fan?
Just don't go, don't buy the tickets, don't go to the concert, don't
listen to the music? Well I don't think the Braves own baseball.
Baseball belongs to America and it should be enjoyed by generations of
kids to come. And I guess to some extent, Prince's music is no longer
owned by him. It is owned by us! We bought it, we paid for the records,
CDs, tapes, concerts, etc. Prince gave up his ownership of his music
when he decided to become a recording artist and SELL his music. And we
bought it. You, me, we each own a little peace of his music. And I say
for my little peace of ownership, you will not use my music to rip off
the average JOE.
So yes, everyone has a right to make a profit, even if its to perverse
levels, and everyone has a right to see what the market will bear. But
if you are going to be a greedy blood sucking bastard, don't play
yourself off as a hero to the fans, and a slave to other blood suckers.
I don't know that Prince is guilty of this as of yet. But the arguments
I've seen here against Linda's points don't hold any water with me. If
what she says is true, even if its true that the 'Crystall Ball' CD
really costs $50, then it all applies.
Joel Martin McTague
Wait a second here!
What's wrong with making a substantial profit on anything? You are
persecuting a man because he's going to make around $5 million on an
album. So? There's nothing wrong with making a profit on any talent
you have. That's why some of us work and some of us make more than
others. He is extrodinarily talented at music, whereas I'm not. That's
why he can sell out a concert and my own mother wouldn't come to mine.
On top of that, we're in a capitalist world here. If we want to buy the
albums he produces, we buy them and pay him for his time plus a profit
premium. If we don't, eventually he would get the message and stop. So
if you don't think Crystal Ball is worth $50, don't buy it.
--
http://joel.cropcircles.com
http://www.cropcircles.com
"Omniscience is soooo boring!" Me, circa 1989.
"No one is my equal, but I regard him, equally with all other beings, as
my property." Max Stirner, The Ego and His Own.
Linda Ross
Joel Martin McTague wrote:
Mr. Mctague:
First, I must apologize to Mr. Marcial. I mis-attributed your post to
him.
To reiterate, the man himself has spoken against the very thing he is
doing. To me that is hypocrisy. The man's fans seem to run the
economic gamut. I can afford the $50 for "Crystal Ball". Other fans
may not, for a multitude of reasons. He spoke to those fans when he
descried Warner's and its greedy ways; what is he saying to them now (I
think W.C. Fields had an appropriate quote, but I will let you provide
it)? And yes, we are in a "capitalist" world here, and ain't it
wonderful.
Frank Mazza
LionSkin1
>From: WAM <"WA...@worldnet.att
>>Linda Ross wrote:
>> One "L.Londell Mcmillian" described as the artist's "business >>partner
and counsel", helped explain to the Times, amid palaver >>about the man's
spiritual needs, how by sticking to the 100,000 >>copy preorder figure,
the economies of scale are such that the >>man can make the Crystal Ball
set for "$1.75" per piece, and >>charge $50 for it, thereby assuaging his
spiritual spasms with the >>balm of filthy lucre.
>
>What about the cost of recording, his time, the time of the >musicians,
engineers, etc....anyhow in a free market >economy..price has nothing to
do with costs.....the price is what >people are WILLING to pay....if $50
is too high then poeple wont >buy it.....
>
>
That's very true, he is just getting the money himself, instead of WB.
How much does a 3 or 4 CD set usually cost at any retail store? Look at
the cost of a regular CD, average 12.99. Doesn't it only cost like $0.90
to actually manufacture? I don't think it's really an issue, how much
O(+> is profiting from the set. Emancipation was a bargain for the $24 I
paid. I would have paid $45-50 for that, and it is unlimited. Besides,
how many people purchased the other full CDs he sold through mail order:
Exodus, Children of the Sun & Gold Nigga. They were double the cost of
regular single CDs on the retail market. Also look at how much we've
paid for boots to get some of this stuff, and the qualityof what we paid
for. The only thing that bothers me about it costing $50, is if we can
only get it through New Funk, and are forced to pay bloated shipping and
handling costs.
Let's not forget that the Artist does have bills to pay, a studio to keep
up to date, engineers to pay, and costs we can't even think of unless we
own a studio like that. Lawyers alone probably eat the man alive. Can
you imagine what the expense could be to keep such a beautiful wife happy,
and in the lap of luxury? I doubt my SS check would cover her for a day!
;)
CHUCK
CHUCK
-the jiffy wiffy waffle eater!
http://members.aol.com/LionSkin1/index.html
Tricky
Edwin Marcial wrote:
>
> I think this issue needs further investigation. If what Linda is stating
> here is true, then these are serious charges against Prince. If you
> people honestly believe that $50 is a fair price for a CD that costs
> 1.50 to make then you need to get off the drugs.
No drugs involved. Price of the CD has nothing to do
with the manufacturing price. First of all, the
manufacturing price has nothing to do with what's
important on the CD: the music. A Prince CD costs
the same to manufacture as a Spice Girls CD. Is the
value the same?
But when you discuss the price of any item, what
matters is supply and demand. How much is it worth
to the people who will buy it? Doesn't matter if
the CD costs $1.75 to manufacture or $100. What
it's worth is what people will pay. I will pay
$50 ($5-$10 shipping) for a 3-4 CD set of perfect
sound quality unreleased material. If by some fluke
it should happen to suck, that figure will go down
for the next 3 CD set the Man tries to put out.
The manufacturing price is irrelevant.
> Americans are becoming
> to accostumed to price gouging in the entertainment industries. While
> these entertainers are talented no one needs to be living like a
> multi-billionare while the rest of us struggle to get by on an honest
> days work.
People certainly do need to live like billionares while
we struggle... *if* their unique talents are so valuable
to us that we are willing to make them billionares.
(Would *you* give back the money if someone offered you
$5 million to make a 3 CD set?)
Peace,
Tricky
HOLTJL1
Linda Ross <li...@lkr.simplenet.com> wrote in article
<EEF7p...@nonexistent.com>...
>
> I can afford the $50 for "Crystal Ball". Other fans
> may not, for a multitude of reasons.
See here's your problem. First, most if not all of his fans CAN afford
Crystal Ball. They may not to be able purchase it as soon as its released,
but they can save up for it. If they can't do that they shouldn't be
purchasing music in the first place. Second, I really wish you and other
fans would stop acting like victims. Once you do that there's no need for
you people to whine and stomp your feet like some 4 year old because mommy
won't buy you that toy.
> Frank Mazza
Jay
------------------------------------
Not a victim. Not a friend. A fan.
Current favorite song: Pope
Current favorite album: Come
Azifwekare
>However, those of you defending the
>price are just trying to defend the artist.
It's not necessarily defending the artist... it's just the fact that the
cd is worth different prices to different people... and that's what's
wonderful about it... we're all different.
--bill j--
Dolphin
> Chuck wrote:
>
> Let's not forget that the Artist does have bills to pay, a studio to
> keep
> up to date, engineers to pay, and costs we can't even think of unless
> we
> own a studio like that. Lawyers alone probably eat the man alive.
> Can
> you imagine what the expense could be to keep such a beautiful wife
> happy,
> and in the lap of luxury? I doubt my SS check would cover her for a
> day!
> ;)
>
> CHUCK
>
> CHUCK
> -the jiffy wiffy waffle eater!
> http://members.aol.com/LionSkin1/index.html
Chuck brother I hope you know what you have....
S-T-Y-L-E....
Peace,
Dolphin (who loves your positive nature)
Linda Ross
Edwin Marcial wrote:
> >
> > Last time I checked, its not illegal in most free countries to make
> a
> > profit by utilizing your talents.......if the price is too
> high....you
> > dont have to buy it....there's no such thing as a "fair
> price"....for
> > example, How does a comic book, which sold for 20 cents 50 years ago
> now
> > sell for thousands?????....."price gouging" applies to necesities
> when
> > supply is scarse...like water, food, oil...not a CD from a perfomer
> who
> > has put out more than 20....in a market of millions of CD's to
> choose
> > from....
>
>
> I don't know that Prince is guilty of this as of yet. But the
> arguments
> I've seen here against Linda's points don't hold any water with me. If
>
> what she says is true, even if its true that the 'Crystall Ball' CD
> really costs $50, then it all applies.
For Mr. Marcial:
We are not talking about someone who has explicitly espoused the "charge
what the market will bear", ethos. We are talking about someone who has
gone on record against that line of thinking. When it was to his
advantage in his battle to free himself from Warner's, he invoked those
arguments about greedy companies and their markups, once free, he seems
to want to apply the techniques of the dreaded record companies to his
own advantage, and his fans disadvantage. Is that hypocrisy? You
decide.
As for what is illegal vs. what is not ethical: There is a vast range of
activities that are quote unquote "legal", but most everyone with a
conscience would call "unethical". I can charge a person dying of
thirst in the desert $5,000 for a class of water, not illegal, it is
what the market will bear at that time. Anyone think it is ethical? An
extreme example, yes. But it brings into relief the issues involved.
For the person responding to Mr. Marcial:
Thanks for the long, thoughtful post! I know the artist has big
expenses. But that is certainly partly a result of his own actions and
value system. I have no problem with him making money off of his
talent. But don't try to paint yourself as holier than the record
companies, "spiritual", and for the liberation of music, and then turn
around and apply the same usurious tactics you have condemned to your
own advantage. Slice it any way you like, it stinks!
Frank Mazza
Joel Martin McTague
Edwin Marcial wrote:
>
> I think this issue needs further investigation. If what Linda is stating
> here is true, then these are serious charges against Prince. If you
> people honestly believe that $50 is a fair price for a CD that costs
> to accostumed to price gouging in the entertainment industries. While
> these entertainers are talented no one needs to be living like a
> multi-billionare while the rest of us struggle to get by on an honest
> days work.
Since when did the consitution or the ten commandments say anything
about "Thou shall not make a profit off of a 3 CD set?" There's nothing
illegal, immoral or fatening about it. And if you believe there is, go
back and read some more of Karl Marx you commie!
LionSkin1
>From: "HOLTJL1" <HOL...@prodigy.net>
>Linda Ross
>>
>> I can afford the $50 for "Crystal Ball". Other fans
>> may not, for a multitude of reasons
>See here's your problem. First, most if not all of his fans CAN afford
>Crystal Ball. They may not to be able purchase it as soon as its
released,
>but they can save up for it. If they can't do that they shouldn't be
>purchasing music in the first place. Second, I really wish you and other
>fans would stop acting like victims. Once you do that there's no need for
>you people to whine and stomp your feet like some 4 year old because
mommy
>won't buy you that toy.
>
>> Frank Mazza
>
>Jay
Not sure who posted what here, but on a very limited budget, I can afford
CB also, I just 'borrow' it from somewhere else on the budget, like
catfood. (Just kidding, I would never do my babies like that, I would go
without food myself first.) If you really want something, you find a way
to get it. I always have the option of selling forever available CDs, to
get something limited like CB (& The Truth) may be.
Anyway, I hope I have not come off sounding like a victim (my apologies if
I have) because prices are kinda high. My limitations are just that, and
I accepted that years ago, I do what I can to adjust and have done pretty
damn well. I never complain about that, my gripes have been more along
the lines of someone saying they are more of a fan, or the only real fans
spend lots of money (because they are able to make it), and are able to
wait in line for hours to get the good tix.
Sometimes I type too fast, so I don't forget what I want to say, and I'm
not the greatest at expressing what the hell I really mean, so I never
intend to sound like a victim, if that's the way you took it, either I've
misrepresented myself, or you just didn't understand what I was trying to
say. ;)
Tricky
Linda Ross (Frank?) wrote:
>
> As for what is illegal vs. what is not ethical: There is a vast range of
> activities that are quote unquote "legal", but most everyone with a
> conscience would call "unethical". I can charge a person dying of
> thirst in the desert $5,000 for a class of water, not illegal, it is
> what the market will bear at that time. Anyone think it is ethical? An
> extreme example, yes. But it brings into relief the issues involved.
In an extremely distorted way, yes. As much as we fans may
talk about how we "need" Crystal Ball, it is not a necessity
of life. There are ethical questions about abusively raising
the prices of things people need... food, clothing, shelter.
There isn't much of an ethical issue about pricing things we
could realistically call luxuries: BMWs, that 2 pound Toshiba
laptop, big white mansions at the top of the road. And a 3CD
set of previously bootlegged material, priced somewhere
between the regular market price of a 3CD set and the market
price of a 3CD bootleg. For luxuries the question is not
how much should it cost but how much you will pay.
Take for example, stuff like the NYC tape, Kamasutra,
and other things sold at high prices by 1800NEWFUNK.
People weren't buying the NYC cassette single for $20
(plus s&h) so they dropped the price at the tour
merchandise stands. Capitalism at work...
Is he a hypocrite? Maybe. I've always believed that his
public stateements are sufficiently inconsistent (and
always have been) that you rely on them at your own risk.
This is particularly true of vague statements like "Free
the music". Regardless, the pricing of merchandise is
a business decision. We shouldn't take it personally.
Peace,
Tricky
Linda Ross
HOLTJL1 wrote:
> Linda Ross <li...@lkr.simplenet.com> wrote in article
> <EEF76...@nonexistent.com>...
> > We are not talking about someone who has explicitly espoused the
> "charge
> > what the market will bear", ethos. We are talking about someone who
> has
> > gone on record against that line of thinking.
>
> We are also talking about someone who said he was going to retire at
> least
> twice in his career. We are talking about someone who said many times
> that
> he wasn't going to play anymore Prince songs. I find it interesting
> that
> some fans remember some "promises" and forget others...
>
> > When it was to his
> > advantage in his battle to free himself from Warner's, he invoked
> those
> > arguments about greedy companies and their markups, once free, he
> seems
> > to want to apply the techniques of the dreaded record companies to
> his
> > own advantage, and his fans disadvantage. Is that hypocrisy? You
> > decide.
>
> As I recall, his main gripe was that artists (the slaves) do all the
> work
> and greedy record companies take all the profits.
>
> > As for what is illegal vs. what is not ethical: There is a vast
> range of
> > activities that are quote unquote "legal", but most everyone with a
> > conscience would call "unethical". I can charge a person dying of
> > thirst in the desert $5,000 for a class of water, not illegal, it is
>
> > what the market will bear at that time. Anyone think it is
> ethical? An
> > extreme example, yes.
>
> Please do not compare your need to have the man's music to the need of
> a
> man in a desert for a glass of water. It just makes you like a spoiled
>
> fanatic.
>
> > I have no problem with him making money off of his
> > talent. But don't try to paint yourself as holier than the record
> > companies, "spiritual", and for the liberation of music, and then
> turn
> > around and apply the same usurious tactics you have condemned to
> your
> > own advantage.
>
> For the most part, he hasn't.
>
> > Frank Mazza
>
> Jay
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Current favorite song: Pope
> Current favorite album: Come
Jay:
Your interpretation of my analogy about the glass of water in the desert
totally misses the point. My "need" for the man's music wasn't the
issue. The issue is the easy blurring of the distinction between what
is explicitly illegal, and what is not ethical but still perfectly
legal. Besides, if I'm a "spoiled fanatic", I'm a very minor one by the
standards of this group.
As for "for the most part, he hasn't", get real! Either you haven't
been paying attention to his many interviews and statements in articles,
or, like most, you don't take what he says in any literal sense at all,
which seems to be the way one listens to shady players and other less
than honest types anyway.
Frank Mazza
Linda Ross
LionSkin1 wrote:
> >From: WAM <"WA...@worldnet.att
>
> >>Linda Ross wrote:
>
> >> One "L.Londell Mcmillian" described as the artist's "business
> >>partner
> and counsel", helped explain to the Times, amid palaver >>about the
> man's
> spiritual needs, how by sticking to the 100,000 >>copy preorder
> figure,
> the economies of scale are such that the >>man can make the Crystal
> Ball
> set for "$1.75" per piece, and >>charge $50 for it, thereby assuaging
> his
> spiritual spasms with the >>balm of filthy lucre.
> >
> >What about the cost of recording, his time, the time of the
> >musicians,
> engineers, etc....anyhow in a free market >economy..price has nothing
> to
> Let's not forget that the Artist does have bills to pay, a studio to
> keep
> up to date, engineers to pay, and costs we can't even think of unless
> we
> own a studio like that. Lawyers alone probably eat the man alive.
> Can
> you imagine what the expense could be to keep such a beautiful wife
> happy,
> and in the lap of luxury? I doubt my SS check would cover her for a
> day!
> ;)
>
> CHUCK
>
> CHUCK
> -the jiffy wiffy waffle eater!
> http://members.aol.com/LionSkin1/index.html
When the Artist made his case for his freedom, one of the things he
addressed was his displeasure with the status quo of high CD prices
because of record company control. Sure, if all you think about are
fans who can comfortably pay $50 for a set, plus shipping, why not? But
is that the best we can expect from him? Carry on like the companies he
decried? After all, by that logic, who could blame Warner's for what
they did. Those guys undoubtedly have fly wives and girlfriends to
fete, luxury apartments to furnish, etc. At least your average music
executive doesn't coat his/her piranha capitalism with used to be
important words like "spiritual", and they have professional
distribution operations, solid release dates, and definitive product
descriptions, unlike the man. All the way down the line, from treatment
of his workers and musicians (anyone think he's paying any of these
local struggling musicians he snags a king's ransom?), the great
majority of whom have been shown to be instantly disposable, to his
cavalier treatment of what constitutes his charity, the man comes off
more like the slimy aspect of the music business than its spiritual
savior. I expected more.
Frank Mazza
Joel Martin McTague
Linda Ross wrote:
>
> Mr. Mctague:
>
> First, I must apologize to Mr. Marcial. I mis-attributed your post to
> him.
>
> To reiterate, the man himself has spoken against the very thing he is
> doing. To me that is hypocrisy. The man's fans seem to run the
> economic gamut. I can afford the $50 for "Crystal Ball". Other fans
> may not, for a multitude of reasons. He spoke to those fans when he
> descried Warner's and its greedy ways; what is he saying to them now (I
> think W.C. Fields had an appropriate quote, but I will let you provide
> it)? And yes, we are in a "capitalist" world here, and ain't it
> wonderful.
>
> Frank Mazza
Considering the "bootleg premium", I don't think he's preaching against
hypocrasy. Let me explain what a booleg premium is. When software or
music or a book or a magazine or anything that's readily copiable is
made, the total number of estimated consumers is calculated. For
argument's sake, let's say for Crystal Ball that's 500000 people. Next,
because of the ease that illegal copies would be made, a company
estimates how many people would actually buy it vs. the number of people
to whom they would supply a copy. Let's assume against that this
multiple is 5. This means he would, assuming no bootlegs, would sell
the CD for $10. But because of bootlegs the price went up. Sorry.
Granted, the high price may encourage bootlegs, but we never gave the
Man much credit for his business acumen.
Linda Ross
HOLTJL1 wrote:
> Linda Ross <li...@lkr.simplenet.com> wrote in article
> <EEF7p...@nonexistent.com>...
>
> >
> > I can afford the $50 for "Crystal Ball". Other fans
> > may not, for a multitude of reasons.
>
> See here's your problem. First, most if not all of his fans CAN afford
>
> Crystal Ball. They may not to be able purchase it as soon as its
> released,
> but they can save up for it. If they can't do that they shouldn't be
> purchasing music in the first place. Second, I really wish you and
> other
> fans would stop acting like victims. Once you do that there's no need
> for
> you people to whine and stomp your feet like some 4 year old because
> mommy
> won't buy you that toy.
>
> > Frank Mazza
>
> Jay
> ------------------------------------
> Not a victim. Not a friend. A fan.
> Current favorite song: Pope
> Current favorite album: Come
In other words, some of his fans, who may be in straitened financial
circumstances, should struggle and scrimp to be able to purchase the
product of this "spiritual" being, so he and his wife can be kept in
Diamonds and Pearls? Also, check your reasoning skills. There is
nothing in what I said that would lead you to reasonably assume anything
about my financial ability to afford the man's stuff.
Frank Mazza
Linda Ross
Azifwekare wrote:
Yea, its wonderful, we are all different. Most of us can pay $50 no
sweat. Those who can't, well its tough being a loser in this fair
capitalist system, but thats the breaks!
Frank M
Linda Ross
Tricky wrote:
> Linda Ross (Frank?) wrote:
> >
> > As for what is illegal vs. what is not ethical: There is a vast
> range of
> > activities that are quote unquote "legal", but most everyone with a
> > conscience would call "unethical". I can charge a person dying of
> > thirst in the desert $5,000 for a class of water, not illegal, it is
>
> > what the market will bear at that time. Anyone think it is
> ethical? An
Tricky:
The pricing of merchandise becomes more than "a business decision" when
you wrap yourself in the kind of "spiritual, better than the record
companies, music should be free" cloak the man has so often adopted.
Hence, if we the fans and him are "family", we have every right to to
take personally our "father" reaching into our wallets for his own
excess gain. My real daddy don't do me like that! That's why he is
true family, and the man: another two-faced media maven.
Frank Mazza
Edwin Marcial
I think the bottom line is this:
It is fair, legal, and even ethical to charge as much as the market
will bear for any product. This is capatilism, and its great (I am no
commie to the gentleman who suggested I was). It is part of what makes
this county great. This is what huge corporations do like Ford,
Hitachi, and yes even Warner Brothers. These companies keep people
working and keep our country strong.
Now to me, Prince has always been more than just about the music. I
believe he's developed an image as a man who genuinely cares about
people and his fans. (Don't flame me on this, this is how I've seen
him for the past 12 years).
So what is dissapointing to me is that it is hypocritical to slam
corporations like Warner Bros. and then turn around and do the same
thing when you have the chance. He has an opportunity here to give
something back to the fans that have supported him, and instead he's
sticking it to them with high priced short concerts and expensive CDs.
Whats more, I looked up to him for all these years, and for him to act
like this, after watching him look ridiculous for the past couple of
years (writing Slave on his face) is embarassing and dissapointing to
me. As far as I know, no one held a gun to his head and told him to
sign the multi-millionaire contract with WB. Yet Prince still felt
that WB was unethical. Well no one is holding a gun to our heads and
saying pay $50 for the crucible, but I still feel its unethical. Its
hard for me to look up to him as a person at this point, although I
still will love his music and it will always be 'Forever in my life'.
Maybe all this is just a 'Sign of the Times'
LionSkin1
>From: Dolphin
>
>Chuck brother I hope you know what you have....
>
>S-T-Y-L-E....
>
>
Thanks Dolphin, I ain't got no job, but I got STYLE! HAHA!
C-
Suzrusso
>>From: suzr...@aol.com (Suzrusso)
>
>> I would hate to pay his bills.. I have enough
>>trouble paying my own...
>
>Could imagine even paying the guy out on the Paisley Lawn pushin the
>mower?? Sheesh! ;)
>
>C-
>-the jiffy wiffy waffle eater!
Hell, no.. but I'd sure like to be getting paid what he/she is getting...
wouldnt you? LOL
just a thought
** pEaCe&pOsItIvItY **
Suzanne
Azifwekare
>Thanks Dolphin, I ain't got no job, but I got STYLE! HAHA!
hey... that's my line :)
--bill j--
Victor
>We put the money in his pocket. Now I ask you, why does he need another
>red cent? When is it time to say thanks to the people who put him there.
>We made him rich by digging his music. For every prince fan I've
Uh excuse me? He's said thanx by actually releasing all that stuff for you
to buy in the first place. He released...you dished out your money in
return. What more is there say here? Did you get ripped off somewhere along
the way? Did you dish out your $15 and NOT get a album in return?
Victor
Victor
>
>...sometimes its sound as if some of you are Prince music addicts...and
>demand your fix......
Oh it's NOT an "if" it's a fact. And I'm glad someone else sees this as
well. Sometimes I get the feeling that some "fanatics" think that Prince/The
Artist is their own little music making machine; and gawd forbid if he
doesn't do things just the way they want it.
Victor
Dolphin
Edwin Marcial wrote:
> We the fans who feel scammed by Prince are thinking just as Prince
> did
> about WB. So if anyone should understand the anger at being scammed,
> Prince should.
>
>
If you're feeling scammed man, break the chains! Freedom is a
beautiful thang. He ain't holdin a gun to your head to buy the shit so
don't.
What do I say now Lee?
Next.
Peace is just a word. Words are used to express thoughts. Thoughts
during sleep are called dreams. I dream of expressing peace. Beer
please.
Dolphin
Victor
>
>The pricing of merchandise becomes more than "a business decision" when
>you wrap yourself in the kind of "spiritual, better than the record
>companies, music should be free" cloak the man has so often adopted.
>Hence, if we the fans and him are "family", we have every right to to
>take personally our "father" reaching into our wallets for his own
>excess gain. My real daddy don't do me like that! That's why he is
Um...I think you're the one reaching into your pocket here. When Prince
starts to come to his fan's homes and mugs them for their money; you let me
know.
HOLTJL1
Patrick Andrew Norris <pa...@Ra.MsState.Edu> wrote in article
> It is. It is to his fans disadvantage, but unlike someone suggested,
> the point of my criticism hasn't been because of victimization.
I guess you're talking about me. :)
> The
> point is integrity. I like the idea of Love 4 One Another, but I would
> hope someone who says he or she promotes "love" exemplifies integrity,
> at least to measurable extent. Otherwise, the message gets lost in
> distrust and resentment of the constant manipulation that seems to be
> going on(sounds like a relationship). Tell me I'm wrong. :)
I agree, but here's the thing. We're not talking about just anyone. We're
talking about O(+>; a man known for his lack of business sense and his
erractic behavior. Why would ANY fan, except for newbies, trust him to stay
true to his word? Because they like the role of "the victim". When you're
the victim, you're less likely to be criticized for putting yourself in a
situations where you can get screwed. In the end, it all leads back to
victimization and fanaticism.
I have a question for you.
If you're trying to manipulate someone so you can get more money out of
them would you tell the NYTimes how you're going to do it?
> Patrick Andrew Norris
Jay
----------------------------------------------------------
I post...therefore I am. I don't need you to tell me what isn't spam.
LionSkin1
>From: "HOLTJL1" <HOL...@prodigy.net>
> I'm confused. Nice post though! :) Anyway, let me explain what I
mean when
>I say someone is acting like a victim....
>>
As I replied via private email to Frank Mazza:
" Occasionally, just mentioning that you are on disabilty, and can't
easily afford something you'd like to have, people get uncomfortable and
think you are crying, 'I'm a victim, I'm a victim' I'm uncomfortable with
that myself, so I just don't want anyone thinking that I mean to sound
like that.
I openly discuss my disabilities, as well as sexual orientation, and any
thing else that some people are uncomfortable with, if for no other
reason, to help them not be so uncomfortable around it. We are most
uncomfortable with the things we don't see so much of, or don't
understand. I think we have a pretty diverse group posting on the AMP,
and I like that, and want everyone else to realize it too.
Are my rambling again, geesh!!
Take care,
CHUCK"
I even talk about my bathroom habits with strangers who lend an ear! ;)
C-
-the jiffy wiffy waffle eater!
Darryl R. Stewart
--------------410EF2DBBB179224FC3710C3
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>
>
> To reiterate, the man himself has spoken against the very thing he is
> doing. To me that is hypocrisy. The man's fans seem to run the
> economic gamut. I can afford the $50 for "Crystal Ball". Other fans
>
> may not, for a multitude of reasons. He spoke to those fans when he
> descried Warner's and its greedy ways; what is he saying to them now
> (I
> think W.C. Fields had an appropriate quote, but I will let you provide
>
> it)? And yes, we are in a "capitalist" world here, and ain't it
> wonderful.
>
> Frank Mazza
If I recall correctly, The Artist's gripes with Warners stemmed from
their attempts to control his artistic visions and limit his access to
the people who wanted to hear his music when he deemed it ready for
their ears. I don't believe his problems with that company ever
involved the royalties payed him. He has complained of the financial
straits of many other balck performers whose records sales didn't match
the receipts, but as for himself, as he said on Oprah, it wasn't the 100
million dollars that his contract was worth (on paper anyway) that
turned his nose up, it was, in fact, the deal itself. True, I have seen
O(+> in print discussing his displeasure with the financial destitution
of other artists who have sold millions (example, TLC who eventually
declared bankruptcy), but never his own.
In 1994, when Warners released The Hits/B-sides box set, it sold for
around $50, the industry standard. It contained, for the most part,
previously released material, and went gold with only the slightest bit
of promotion. Ani Difranco's latest disc, a two Cd live set (on her own
label) costs about $25...the industry standard. Low and behold,
Emancipation, another 3-disc set, this one with all new material, on his
own label, costs just about the same as the two-disc Difranco set, and
just over half of the amount of the Warners box. Now, with the Crystal
Ball set, it's back to the industry standard of about $50 for three CDs
(much to the delight of the spoiled brat sect of fans of the Artist),
but also with...you guessed it, a forth CD included in the package free
of charge. Two free discs in a row from a man who some feel is being
chincy and miserly. Just another opinion...run it up a flag pole or put
it in your pipe and smoke it...I am just another point of view...
"Free Food Stamps
For Good Samaritans"
New
Power,
98
--------------410EF2DBBB179224FC3710C3
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<HTML>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<P>To reiterate, the man himself has spoken against the very thing he is
<BR>doing. To me that is hypocrisy. The man's fans seem to
run the
<BR>economic gamut. I can afford the $50 for "Crystal Ball".
Other fans
<BR>may not, for a multitude of reasons. He spoke to those fans when
he
<BR>descried Warner's and its greedy ways; what is he saying to them now
(I
<BR>think W.C. Fields had an appropriate quote, but I will let you provide
<BR>it)? And yes, we are in a "capitalist" world here, and ain't
it
<BR>wonderful.
<P>Frank Mazza</BLOCKQUOTE>
If I recall correctly, The Artist's gripes with Warners
stemmed from their attempts to control his <I>artistic</I> visions and
limit his access to the people who wanted to hear his music when he deemed
it ready for their ears. I don't believe his problems with that company
ever involved the royalties payed him. He has complained of the financial
straits of many other balck performers whose records sales didn't match
the receipts, but as for himself, as he said on Oprah, it wasn't the 100
million dollars that his contract was worth (on paper anyway) that turned
his nose up, it was, in fact, <I>the deal itself.</I> True, I have
seen O(+> in print discussing his displeasure with the financial destitution
of other artists who have sold millions (example, TLC who eventually declared
bankruptcy), but never his own.
<BR> In 1994, when Warners released The Hits/B-sides
box set, it sold for around $50, <I>the industry standard.</I> It
contained, for the most part, previously released material, and went gold
with only the slightest bit of promotion. Ani Difranco's latest disc,
a two Cd live set (on her own label) costs about $25...<I>the industry
standard. </I>Low and behold, Emancipation, another 3-disc set, this
one with all new material, on his own label, costs just about the same
as the two-disc Difranco set, and just over half of the amount of the Warners
box. Now, with the Crystal Ball set, it's back to <I>the industry
standard</I> of about $50 for three CDs (much to the delight of the spoiled
brat sect of fans of the Artist), but also with...you guessed it, a forth
CD included in the package <I>free of charge. </I>Two free discs
in a row from a man who some feel is being chincy and miserly. Just
another opinion...run it up a flag pole or put it in your pipe and smoke
it...I am just another point of view...
<BR>
"Free Food Stamps For Good Samaritans"
<BR>
New Power,
<BR>
98
<BR> </HTML>
--------------410EF2DBBB179224FC3710C3--
HOLTJL1
LionSkin1 <lion...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970805184...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Not sure who posted what here, but on a very limited budget, I can afford
> CB also, I just 'borrow' it from somewhere else on the budget, like
> catfood. (Just kidding, I would never do my babies like that, I would go
> without food myself first.) If you really want something, you find a way
> to get it. I always have the option of selling forever available CDs, to
> get something limited like CB (& The Truth) may be.
> Anyway, I hope I have not come off sounding like a victim (my apologies
if
> I have) because prices are kinda high. My limitations are just that, and
> I accepted that years ago, I do what I can to adjust and have done pretty
> damn well. I never complain about that, my gripes have been more along
> the lines of someone saying they are more of a fan, or the only real fans
> spend lots of money (because they are able to make it), and are able to
> wait in line for hours to get the good tix.
> Sometimes I type too fast, so I don't forget what I want to say, and I'm
> not the greatest at expressing what the hell I really mean, so I never
> intend to sound like a victim, if that's the way you took it, either I've
> misrepresented myself, or you just didn't understand what I was trying to
> say. ;)
I'm confused. Nice post though! :) Anyway, let me explain what I mean when
I say someone is acting like a victim. If you complain about being wronged,
scammed, etc. yet refuse to acknowledge the actions you took to put
yourself into such a vulnerable situation, then you're acting like a
victim. Now, I haven't been paying attention to who said what so I don't
know if you playing victim or not. I hope this helps people understand my
position on the subject.
And, if anyone is curious. I haven't ordered CB yet, but I plan to very
soon. If O(+> scams me somewhere along the way, I have noone to blame but
myself. I know how incompetent the staff a PP can be and I know I'm taking
a risk by giving them my credit card number.
Jay
------------------------------------------------------------
If I gave you diamonds and squrriels....
Current favorite song: Pope
Current favorite album: Come
> CHUCK
Galileo
Azifwekare wrote:
>
> >However, those of you defending the
> >price are just trying to defend the artist.
>
> It's not necessarily defending the artist... it's just the fact that the
> cd is worth different prices to different people... and that's what's
> wonderful about it... we're all different.
>
> --bill j--
Well here is my 2 cents on this little debate. I personally feel The
Artist should be able to charge whatever he wants for his music, $50 for
a CD that cost $1.50 is great. If it cost $.50 even better. It is
America that is what made us great is being able to make a buck. If
wants to charge $500 for Crystal that is his right. It is up to the
fans to decide if we are going to buy it. Some of you think he is
unwise business man, and I have agreed sometimes, but after thinking
about it, I think he has done some good research here. I mean think
about it, apparently he has watched, surveyed to see what his fans would
pay, then got a rough idea as to how many would pay that. He probably
based what he wanted to make in profit on how many he is going to make.
It is a basic economic formula of establishing your profit margin you
want to maintain.
Now on the other hand I tend to think he has been hypocritical about the
price structuring of todays music, complaining the music industry
charges to much for CD's, concert prices are way to much. He still
maintains the same "so called" high prices, he has just eliminated some
of the middle men, thereby keeping more profits for himself. Now don't
get me wrong, I am not contradicting what I said in the previous
paragraph, he has every right to do so, in fact I would do the same.
BUT the problem is he preaches one thing while doing another.
Some of you people complain about his prices being way to much, and that
isn't fair to his fans (people are already complaing about Crystal Ball
and no one knows even what is on it). I ask you this what obligation
does he have to you to provide music that you can afford? None. What
obligation do you have to buy his music at the price he has established?
None. I have numerous times listened to a Prince/The Artist album and
decided I don't want to pay that much for that, so I wait until it is in
the bargain bin. Some of you complaind about Exodus and Children of the
Sun, I got Exodus for about $13. Of course this means I didn't have
RIGHT when it came out. But I paid what I thought I it was worth to me.
Galileo
"In a world that is black and white, we all need a little Paisley"
Tricky
lrfm wrote:
>
> FAlleyne wrote:
>
> > Lee is right. I mean how many musicians today can tell me that they
> > own
> > their own label? The man has major bills to pay without the help of
> > no
> > one! Imagine the cost of maintaining your own studio, paying
> > employees,and production of album after album. He's also starting a
> > school and a dance company. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even have
> > to
> > give us a damn thing. He could have kept all of his talent to
> > himself.
> > He has been in the business for a long time and he knows how much he
> > needs
> > to keep his bizz going.
> > I say more power to him!
> >
> > Darlene:)
>
> Nonsense! Sure, he could have kept his talent to himself. In an
> alternate universe where people don't hang on his every word/note and he
> is just another struggling fellow on the street, a universe he would
> probably describe as a "hell"!
I know I would :)
I dunno Frank, you seem to be taking all of this quite
personally...
Peace,
Tricky
Tricky
Edwin Marcial wrote:
> And what obligation did Prince have to sign his contracts with Warner
> Bros? What obligation does any recording artist have to sign any
> multi-million dollar contract with warner bros? None! No one holds a
> gun to any of there heads. There in lies the hypocrisy of it all. We
> the fans who feel scammed by Prince are thinking just as Prince did
> about WB.
What, has Prince scammed away the rights to *your* masters?
> So if anyone should understand the anger at being scammed,
> Prince should.
Who's scamming you, anyway? If you pay $50 for Crystal
Ball, and then you only get one CD when you were promised
4, then you've been scammed. (Somewhere in the distance,
I swear I can hear someone at Paisley Park saying "Rats!
They're on to us!") But if you pay an agreed-to price
for the merchandise you wanted, you haven't been scammed!
If the Man promised you Crystal Ball for less than market
price (you know, the way he gave us Emancipation) then you
can say you were scammed. Otherwise, you're just complaining
because you thought you were gonna get $5 full-length CDs
after he split from WB...
> And futhermore, if Prince wants to make as much money as possible and
> thats what he's about, then fine. Just don't parade yourself around as
> someone for the people. Because its becoming clear that he is for
> himself.
Why can't you be for the people and for yourself at the
same time?
Peace,
Tricky
lrfm
FAlleyne wrote:
> Lee is right. I mean how many musicians today can tell me that they
> own
> their own label? The man has major bills to pay without the help of
> no
> one! Imagine the cost of maintaining your own studio, paying
> employees,and production of album after album. He's also starting a
> school and a dance company. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even have
> to
> give us a damn thing. He could have kept all of his talent to
> himself.
> He has been in the business for a long time and he knows how much he
> needs
> to keep his bizz going.
> I say more power to him!
>
> Darlene:)
Nonsense! Sure, he could have kept his talent to himself. In an
alternate universe where people don't hang on his every word/note and he
is just another struggling fellow on the street, a universe he would
probably describe as a "hell"!
Frank Mazza
Solomon
>It is fair, legal, and even ethical to charge as much as the market
>will bear for any product. This is capatilism, and its great (I am no
>commie to the gentleman who suggested I was). It is part of what makes
>this county great. This is what huge corporations do like Ford,
>Hitachi, and yes even Warner Brothers. These companies keep people
>working and keep our country strong.
There are more ideas in the world than 'capitalism' and 'communism'. You
people are way to mass-media influenced. Let's forget the 'cold war' sham for
a second and focus on facts:
These corporations are *destroying* our planet through pollution, genocide
(biological and political against all non-white human beings in the US and
abroad), depleting the oxygen supply by cutting down all the trees, killing
all 'non-essential' animal life, centralization of government, the elimination
of free speech, and economic sanctions against the individual. Do some
serious study of US history (primary or secondary scholarly sources, not
fucking high school textbooks). These corporations are killing us.
At least the 'us' that aren't involved in actively expanding the horizons
of the 'free market' ideology. Very 'New World'. Very Chris Columbus.
Suzrusso
dont forget about the one mowing the lawn at the park.. right Chuck????
** pEaCe&pOsItIvItY **
Suzanne
LionSkin1
>From: suzr...@aol.com (Suzrusso)
>
>dont forget about the one mowing the lawn at the park.. right Chuck????
Or the water bill. With all them damn people hangin' out at the Park, you
KNOW some need showers in the middle of the day. All the dirty dishes to
wash after Patti LaBelle cooks some of that fine ass chicken for the
people (O(+> don't eat it anymore, wonder what Patti cooks now?). All the
toilets flushing all damn day! AND the guy watering the Paisley Lawn
after he cuts it (gotta keep it green). Just imagine it!!
;)
lrfm
Tricky wrote:
> I know I would :)
>
> I dunno Frank, you seem to be taking all of this quite
> personally...
>
> Peace,
> Tricky
Keep his talent to himself? That is not me taking things personally,
that is a silly notion.
To digress, if someone uses a word like "family", its personal. If it
isn't, its being used for rhetorical/media/marketing purposes. To bring
this discrepancy into relief can be called "whining", taking things
"personally", whatever, I just call it pointing out false use of words.
Your point is my point exactly. I shouldn't take it personally, because
obviously its not, we fans are not his "family", hence his use of that
word is at some levels nonsense, manipulative and false. But I believe
the artist does, in some sense, think of us as his family. But he's
the Patriarch.
Frank Mazza
Tuff Gong
In article <19970806033...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, suzr...@aol.com (Suzrusso) wrote:
>regardless of soak vs non-soak on the price.. there are some of us how do
>not currently own any of the bootlegs (mine having been stolen in a
>robbery long ago). For me, and the others who do not own them, we may be
>happy with at least the opportunity to own these tracks, at whatever
>price... if you total up the price tag of all your boots that carry these
>tracks, do the math.. betcha crystal ball comes out cheaper than your
>total...
On the other hand, I can get bootlegs for _cheaper_ than what Prince is
planning to charge for Crystal Ball. To me, that's highway robbery. It costs
a dollar or two to press a CD... Prince doesn't have to give a cut of the
profits to a record company anymore, so why does the price of the albums
suddenly have to skyrocket? It just doesn't make sense, but neither does a
lot of what he's been doing lately.
And yes, as always there will be the whiny retort of "well, if you don't like
the price don't buy it." Don't worry, I won't. But it doesn't make me any
less mad that he's charging out the ass for this when he's actually making all
the money for himself now. At least with Warner Brothers you knew you'd be
getting the albums for a standard price... But hey, if you're happy paying
that much, go for it. I, on the other hand, refuse to have my intelligence
and common sense insulted by buying anything that overpriced and drastically
different from the original idea behind the product.]
lowrez
Tuff Gong,jjmc...@pop.uky.edu,Internet writes:
At least with Warner Brothers you knew you'd be
getting the albums for a standard price...
exactly.
just imagine if all artists sold thier exclusively and charged $50 per cd.
this would certainly limit my ability to buy music.
-lowrez
Vyndikator
>just imagine if all artists sold thier exclusively and charged $50 per
cd.
>this would certainly limit my ability to buy music.
>
>
Correction..he is not selling a cd for $50..he is selling an ALBUM for
$50. The album is no ordinary one because it has a special case,three cds,
and bootleg material.. Wether this denotes charging $50 or not is in the
eye of the beholder.
--
O(+>O(+>
ChRiS
WeLcOmE 2 ThE PuRpLE CiRcLe
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O(+>O(+>
Dolphin
Tuff Gong wrote:
>
>
> >On the other hand, I can get bootlegs for _cheaper_ than what Prince
> is
> >planning to charge for Crystal Ball. To me, that's highway robbery.
Your right. The bootleggers ARE robbing him blind.
> >It costs
> a dollar or two to press a CD... Prince doesn't have to give a cut of
> the
> profits to a record company anymore, so why does the price of the
> albums
> suddenly have to skyrocket? It just doesn't make sense, but neither
> does a
> lot of what he's been doing lately.
>
> And yes, as always there will be the whiny retort of "well, if you
> don't like
> the price don't buy it." Don't worry, I won't. But it doesn't make
> me any
> less mad that he's charging out the ass for this when he's actually
> making all
> the money for himself now. At least with Warner Brothers you knew
> you'd be
> getting the albums for a standard price... But hey, if you're happy
> paying
> that much, go for it. I, on the other hand, refuse to have my
> intelligence
> and common sense insulted by buying anything that overpriced and
> drastically
> different from the original idea behind the product.]
Hmmm.....do you own The Hits collection? What did that set cost again?
How much do you think it cost WB to make each cd? about $0.75 each give
or take.....
Dolphin man with no mission. Wishin the world was all warm and fluffy
like the Stay Puff Marsh Mellow Man.
User730837
>From: Endorphin <Endo...@PlanetVenus.com>
>Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 01:14:43 -0400
>Message-ID: <33EE9F...@PlanetVenus.com>
>
>Tuff Gong wrote:
>
>> And yes, as always there will be the whiny retort of "well, if you
don't
>like
>> the price don't buy it." Don't worry, I won't. But it doesn't make me
any
>> less mad that he's charging out the ass for this when he's actually
making
>all
>> the money for himself now. At least with Warner Brothers you knew
you'd be
>> getting the albums for a standard price... But hey, if you're happy
>paying
>> that much, go for it. I, on the other hand, refuse to have my
intelligence
>> and common sense insulted by buying anything that overpriced and
>drastically
>> different from the original idea behind the product.]
>
>O(+> wants to rightfully claim the proceeds from his work...
>
>But your intelligence wasn't being insulted when you were paying 85%
>of your record-buying dollars to an entertainment conglomerate and
>enriching blokes who had little if anything to do with producing
>the artform...
>
>Sounds like your intelligence is compromised to begin with.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I totally agree with you on this one, very well put!
50 bucks for 3 CDs is an excellent price for music I'm gonna love for
years to come. I have spent much dough on music I gave a couple listens
to and got bored with. One thing about the Artist...he is never boring.
I've seen bootleggers asking 60, 70 or more for there stolen wares. The
Artist deserves to make a profit from his own creations. The record
companies have been raking it in for years. Let the composers, performers
and artists get their due!!
9
Endorphin
HOLTJL1
Edwin Marcial <emar...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<33efbe94...@news.mindspring.com>...
>
> Man, I wish I could get by with such simple thinking. If I go to a
> restaurant and order a $10 steak, and its over cooked and tastes like
> rubber, did I get scammed?
No because its understood BEFORE YOU ORDER that if you don't like the
steak, you can take it back.
> If I go to a Prince concert, pay $120 for 2
> tix and the man only plays for an hour and a half, did I get scammed?
If the amount of pleasure you receive from your concert experience is
directly correlated to length of the concert, the concert is shorter than
your average concert, AND you had absolutely no idea as to how the long the
concert was going to be BEFORE YOU BOUGHT THE TICKETS, then, yes, you and
only people who think like you have been scammed.
> If I order Crystal
> Ball and get 4 CDs and there are only enough good songs on it to fill
> 1 CD (as in Emancipation) did I get scammed?
Since you already understand that you can't return Crystal Ball AND that
its possible that there are some songs you may not like on it BEFORE YOU
ORDERED IT, then no you haven't been scammed. Don't let that victim
mentality take control of you...
> If it says, Prince "Sign here and WB will give you many millions for
> serval years for us to release you music" Prince signs, did he get
> scammed?
None of us know what actually happened between Prince and WB so its hard to
say if Prince was really scammed.
Jay
-----------------------------------------------------
Current favorite album: Disc 3 of Emancipation
Current favorite song: Human Body (don't give me that funny look...)
Vyndikator
>If I order Crystal
>Ball and get 4 CDs and there are only enough good songs on it to fill
I'm sorry but that is not being scammed. How is O(+> to know if YOU will
like his music? You think he actually gives a damn?
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Tricky
Edwin Marcial wrote:
>
> Tricky wrote:
> >Who's scamming you, anyway? If you pay $50 for Crystal
> >Ball, and then you only get one CD when you were promised
> >4, then you've been scammed. (Somewhere in the distance,
> >I swear I can hear someone at Paisley Park saying "Rats!
> >They're on to us!") But if you pay an agreed-to price
> >for the merchandise you wanted, you haven't been scammed!
> >
>
You should try it sometime... It works for me :)
> If I go to a
> restaurant and order a $10 steak, and its over cooked and tastes like
> rubber, did I get scammed?
IF you live in New York City, no :) ($10 for a
steak? Who ever heard a such a thing!)
> If I go to a Prince concert, pay $120 for 2
> tix and the man only plays for an hour and a half, did I get scammed?
Not unless you went to Pine Knob. After that,
setlists and reviews were posted all throughout
this ng. Why should the show's content and
length come as a shock to you, if it's common
knowledge?
> In the first case, I can complain and send it back. In the second
> case, I have no recourse, so yes I got scammed. If I order Crystal
> Ball and get 4 CDs and there are only enough good songs on it to fill
> 1 CD (as in Emancipation) did I get scammed? Yes.
Um, no. Once again, you can get information
that puts whether or not you are "scammed"
under your control. You can download samples
at the L41A site, you can check out the many
semi-official tracklists out there, or you
can wait and read other people's opinions
of the set when we finally get the frigging
thing. You don't have to buy until you are
convinced that it's worth the money.
> If it says, Prince "Sign here and WB will give you many millions for
> serval years for us to release you music" Prince signs, did he get
> scammed? The only difference between Prince and I in these cases is
> that I'm just bitching here, and I haven't written 'Slave' on my face.
...and the small fact that you're not contractually
bound to buy Crystal Ball (unless there's something
you're not telling us). Even if you've preordered,
you *can* cancel. It ain't a scam until they take
your money...
Sorry for the overlong response,
Tricky
Tuff Gong
>I totally agree with you on this one, very well put!
>50 bucks for 3 CDs is an excellent price for music I'm gonna love for
>years to come. I have spent much dough on music I gave a couple listens
>to and got bored with. One thing about the Artist...he is never boring.
>I've seen bootleggers asking 60, 70 or more for there stolen wares. The
>Artist deserves to make a profit from his own creations. The record
>companies have been raking it in for years. Let the composers, performers
>and artists get their due!!
Well, to each their own, but I personally was completely let down by
Emancipation, so I'm *very* wary of dishing out for another 3-CD set,
especially one that's horribly overpriced. Perhaps I would enjoy the music
immensely...conversely, perhaps I'd really hate the music and feel even more
pissed about paying such an exorbitant price for the album. Luckily I
received Emancipation as a Christmas present, but if I'd paid my own money for
that set only to have it sit gathering dust I'd be mad as hell...I can't
imagine how much worse I'd feel with an album gathering dust that I knew I
overpaid for to begin with.
As far as bootlegs... You've just been shopping with the wrong people if
you've only seen bootlegs that expensive. It's been my experience that I can
usually find bootlegs for around list price of legit CDs... And as always,
Prince could release the material himself and beat the bootleggers. Lots of
artists have done it.
I agree, let the artists make the money and not the companies. But at the
same time, why should the fans take a fleecing when the artists are making
more money than ever in a music climate that allows for independent labels and
artists to be just as successful as major label artist?
Patrick Andrew Norris
On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Endorphin wrote:
:>Tuff Gong wrote:
:>> And yes, as always there will be the whiny retort of "well, if you don't like
:>> the price don't buy it." Don't worry, I won't. But it doesn't make me any
Look at any product. The money is in the distribution.
Nothing's different in the music industry. Manufacturing
and creating don't even take half the price in the mass
market, so the music industry, i think, gets disproportionate
scrutiny for division of pay.
If he really wanted to fight this "conglomerate", he'd
have lower prices. He freely admits that he profits so much
more per unit than ever. I don't believe he is/was not fighting
for the right of musicians to own their own product. He was fighting for
the right of Prince Rogers Nelson to charge whatever the market will bear
(i.e. out the ass) for his products and make more profit per release than
he was. That's his choice. He just hasn't been very straightforward
about it, and I suppose we shouldn't expect him to be. Maybe he's not
even straightforward with himself about it since he keeps using this
Gemini metaphor in refering to his personality. It's all about the
so-called "root of all evil" with him--not making music free(by any
definition) and readily available as he's tried to make it out to be.
Capitalism it may be, but love for one another is not capitalism.
Like someone said a while back... free to charge you and me "out the
ass" or something to that effect... don't be mad. be honest with
yourself. oh me? i'll decide item by item. but what are u willing
to pay?
"ever since i was a little baby, i had to have double everything.
when they tell me that that's enough, that's when i wanna fill my
cup to the top..." from "emancipation"
Patrick Andrew Norris
"What is this trick to mix the vibe?
What evil keeps this love alive?"
'Early Spring, Early Fall'
personal: http://www2.msstate.edu/~pan1
O(+> Resources: .../pages/TheArtist.html
what part of your soul are you willing to sell for this
love 4 one another?
Pookie9098
bravo .. if u don't like it don't freakin buy i am tired of sayin this
over and over
same thing with the newfunk stuff i wont pay the money for an ear cuff
so i do not have 1.. simple as that and another thing 4 cd's what the
price of the average 4 cd set....
Vyndikator
>The symbol album (O(+>) limited
>edition's list price was around $30, if I recall correctly
Gee..I got mine for $10. Hmm...
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Bob, if u out there..lemme see you dance. U said u was funky.
joseph b cowart
Vyndikator wrote:
> >The symbol album (O(+>) limited
> >edition's list price was around $30, if I recall correctly
>
> Gee..I got mine for $10. Hmm...
I've never even seen the limited edition of the symbol album. What's it
look like?
jbc
Jediems
Thank you for saying everything i was thinking.
Peace, love and Positivity,
Eric
Rhastus69
its in a gold box when it first came out it was like 25-30$ but I
got one for like $10
Rhastus
JuvenileHi
The store I work at has a limited edition symbol album in stock. If
anyone wants it, lemme know.
Lee
uh-oh. I have a Web page
http://members.aol.com/JuvenileHi/index.html
Now I offically don't have a life.
Dolphin
SARIGAR wrote:
> There is so much negative talk about The Artist and Crystal Ball and
> Emancipation. I just don't understand it all.
No problem. Maybe I can help you out.
> I have every Prince/Artist album, single, video cassette, every
> b-side,
> and quite a few bootleg CDs.
Every video cassette? We gotsta talk.
> Rare is it that I find a Prince song that I
> do not like.
Ditto
> Every album has at least two songs that I LOVE and many more
> I really enjoy. I consider myself lucky to be a "fan" of the Artist,
> he
> puts out music at an incredible pace, and still I'm hungry for more.
> What
> if Michael Jackson were my favorite, a new cd every 3-4 years!!!
If you only knew of the sun could you dream of the rain?
> Some of you seem like you are not really Prince/Artist "fans", like
> you
> just have a passing interest, maybe you own 1999 & Purple Rain and a
> few
> others...
and that's ok. right? Personally I get everything I can, as long as the
bills get paid first, but why criticize people who are "selective" or
should we all be like you?
> Someone said they got Emancipation as a Xmas gift??
Lucky bastard.
> I bought
> mine THE DAY it was released. 3 cds!! 3 times the musical genious.
> There
> are other musicians who I like alot, but don't own EVERY album, and I
> wait
> till I've heard some of it before I buy itBut I don't spend hours on a
>
> news group talking about them.
Do you spend hours here talking about him. hmmm? If so you should
consider a course in time management. It really shouldn't take that
long.
> To complain about the price of Crystal Ball?!! $50? If you are
> truely
> inspired by the man, if his music means more to you than the latest
> top 40
> remake dance song, what is $50?
Hmmm.....tough one. I guess it's an amount of money between $49 and
$51..?? If I could get 3 or 4 cd's of the man's work for that I would
snatch it up quick :-))
> Some of you say you wont buy it... well
> okay, your loss.. you probably wouldn't have bought it for $25 either.
>
> When there is a new cd of "Prince" music available, the only price
> consideration is "do I have enough money to buy this right NOW, or do
> I
> have to go to the ATM first?"
La Di Da
> Motives and methods: To be honest, I'm getting a little restless for
>
> Crystal Ball myself, but think about it, it hasn't even been a year
> since
> Emancipation, and that was 3 cds, plus The Truth/Don't Play Me
> single,
> Welcome 2 The Dawn (acoustic) promo cassette, NPG orchestra Kamasutra.
>
> Really, if it came out next January it wouldn't really have been that
> long
> of a wait. "Why should I have to wait for 100,000 pre orders?" I
> really
> don't know, doesn't seem fair, but he is under no obligation to us to
> ever
> record again, every new song is another gift to be cherished.
No it isn't a gift. Unless maybe you are the lucky bastard that got it
for X-Mas!!
> Basically, what I'm trying to say is: I don't like all of Madonna's
> music nor her marketing tactics,
Me neither. What is with her lately sheesh.
> but I don't get nasty and complain
> endlessly
Unless it's on amp. Damn this is a long post.
> Prince/The
> Artist - If he means anything to you, music is all that matters,
Unless your concerned with more than his music. Or do you have to get
written permission to care about anything else?
> if he
> doesn't mean anything to you why bother..
Yeah, why are you bothering? If all that matters is his music then why
the hell are you here wasting my drunk-ass time when I could be voting
in the latest round of the Prince Tournament. Sheeesh!
> I feel bad knowing that The Artist might read the seemingly selfish
> and
> negative posts here.
Bet he does to, but sometimes life ain't fair just ask Christopher.
> "Your music will neverchange ANYONE!" said Morris
> Day in Graffiti Bridge. Maybe some of you never saw it cuz $7 was too
> much
> to pay or the line was too long to wait in..
ROFLMAO The line was too long......The line was tooo
long.......BOOO!LMAO
> That's just my opinion, no offense to anyone. Listen 2 The music.
And that was just my opinion of your opinion, no offense to you. Unless
you're offended. In which case I can't control your opinion anyway..
Damn that sucks huh?
>
>
> Sar...@aol.com
Empty Bottles,Dolphin - who should make a law against spending Friday
nights on the computer.