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My comments on todays polka
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B.Richter
Mar 3, 2012, 1:09:10 AM3/3/12
to
So I spent sometime re-reading my posts and the resulting comments. Am I
off-base? Perhaps, perhaps not. Time will tell.
However, lets look at things in another light.
Lets say that Mike Surratt is right, that I'm just ranting and off my
rocker and that the others critical of me are too right and that there
are more than five holes in my head. Lets also say the "old bands and
styles" are just that, the old bands and styles and that new is indeed
better. Lets even go so far as to say most, maybe many of todays bands
are just as good. I think we can all agree the polish/english vocal
thing is a non-issue because bands back in the 50's did both kinds of
vocals, often in the same song.
Then explain why attendance is down, bands are quitting and as a genre,
we're failing to attract new listeners, and get old listeners to
consistently come out?
Time was bars had a band. They don't anymore and if it is, it's always
rock or jazz. Maybe there are fewer halls for dancing/listening and
partying.
So if what we have now is so good...why are things as they are?
--
Robert
off-base? Perhaps, perhaps not. Time will tell.
However, lets look at things in another light.
Lets say that Mike Surratt is right, that I'm just ranting and off my
rocker and that the others critical of me are too right and that there
are more than five holes in my head. Lets also say the "old bands and
styles" are just that, the old bands and styles and that new is indeed
better. Lets even go so far as to say most, maybe many of todays bands
are just as good. I think we can all agree the polish/english vocal
thing is a non-issue because bands back in the 50's did both kinds of
vocals, often in the same song.
Then explain why attendance is down, bands are quitting and as a genre,
we're failing to attract new listeners, and get old listeners to
consistently come out?
Time was bars had a band. They don't anymore and if it is, it's always
rock or jazz. Maybe there are fewer halls for dancing/listening and
partying.
So if what we have now is so good...why are things as they are?
--
Robert
Mike Surratt
Mar 3, 2012, 1:56:23 AM3/3/12
to
On Saturday, March 3, 2012 1:09:10 AM UTC-5, B.Richter wrote:
>
> So if what we have now is so good...why are things as they are?
> --
> Robert>>
Gee Robert -- I've been rather quiet lately, but, my name is the only one mentioned?
>
> So if what we have now is so good...why are things as they are?
> --
> Robert>>
Nothing is the same as it was in the 50's/60's/70's etc...
There are no more Sinatras, no more Beatles, no more .05 cokes, no more .25 a gallon gas, and quite honestly, the polka genre is not the only "Dance" genre that is struggling to find those "younger" people and noticing that the "older" folks are staying home.
I just played tonight and the crowd was at least 75% under the age of 60 to death...maybe because I didn't shove all polkas done their throats and played something a little more current than all songs from the middle of last century.
For the record, I don't think everything you bring up is looney and I certainly don't think you've got any holes in your head or you're off your rocker. You just have your opinions and I have mine.
You make life what it is...and take the good wth the bad.
I say enjoy what you like and if you find the formula and start running dances or promoting dances and that formula works for you -- pass the info along. As far as bands that break up -- bands do that more often than not and did so in the 1950's too...
Mike
nypolkabob
Mar 3, 2012, 12:17:55 PM3/3/12
to
Not to be politically correct, Robert you bring up some good points,
but Mike you countered with equally great responses summing it up
"nothing is like it used to be".
so many additional factors come into the reasoning for declines in
attendance and the number of bands.
• Dance promoters have trouble raising admission prices, which affects
band pay- charge $10 get x number of fans, raise the price by $2-$5
and attendance drops off.
• An increase in extra curricula school activities takes the "family"
polka out on weekends to other activities such as "soccer camps".
• Drinking at dance halls-while no one advocates drinking and driving-
certainly the spotlight on enforcement has impacted dance halls, and
their profits.
• Bands that once could afford to be "full time" or semi full time
can't afford that any longer
• Fewer band jobs mean less payments on the van or equipment to carry
the group to perform oat the less frequent jobs
• Increased expenses for dance halls, including taxes, heat and
insurance
The "next generation" of polka fans emerging need a "crossover", the
traditional polka fans argue to stay traditional, newer fans say go
progressive-when I say progressive, I'm not being extreme-anything
from Gomulka's RED RUBBER BALL song to DON'T PULL YOUR LOVE by Polka
Family. The polka, waltz , Oberek of the 1960's, 70'80's started to
really wane in the late 1990's.
This posting made me think quite a bit. While for many years I have
been on radio, and then also joined the internet craze-this has
actually decreased attendance. More exposure for the music, but I
think perhaps less motivation to get out of the house and drive
(whatever distance) to see that special band.
To all the readers of this group-solutions
• Commit to attending at least one live venue a month
• Carpool to the next polka dance
• Support several different styles of band-try something a little
different
• Attend at least one festival in 2012
• Bring the next generation out-skip one soccer practice
NY PolkaBob
but Mike you countered with equally great responses summing it up
"nothing is like it used to be".
so many additional factors come into the reasoning for declines in
attendance and the number of bands.
• Dance promoters have trouble raising admission prices, which affects
band pay- charge $10 get x number of fans, raise the price by $2-$5
and attendance drops off.
• An increase in extra curricula school activities takes the "family"
polka out on weekends to other activities such as "soccer camps".
• Drinking at dance halls-while no one advocates drinking and driving-
certainly the spotlight on enforcement has impacted dance halls, and
their profits.
• Bands that once could afford to be "full time" or semi full time
can't afford that any longer
• Fewer band jobs mean less payments on the van or equipment to carry
the group to perform oat the less frequent jobs
• Increased expenses for dance halls, including taxes, heat and
insurance
The "next generation" of polka fans emerging need a "crossover", the
traditional polka fans argue to stay traditional, newer fans say go
progressive-when I say progressive, I'm not being extreme-anything
from Gomulka's RED RUBBER BALL song to DON'T PULL YOUR LOVE by Polka
Family. The polka, waltz , Oberek of the 1960's, 70'80's started to
really wane in the late 1990's.
This posting made me think quite a bit. While for many years I have
been on radio, and then also joined the internet craze-this has
actually decreased attendance. More exposure for the music, but I
think perhaps less motivation to get out of the house and drive
(whatever distance) to see that special band.
To all the readers of this group-solutions
• Commit to attending at least one live venue a month
• Carpool to the next polka dance
• Support several different styles of band-try something a little
different
• Attend at least one festival in 2012
• Bring the next generation out-skip one soccer practice
NY PolkaBob
wildwil...@gmail.com
Mar 4, 2012, 10:41:25 AM3/4/12
to
look at what Ny Polka Bob and I do with our shows - mixing it up and pushing beyond the "normal" scale of what is a polka show - this is a good thing - do we bring in a new audience? I hope so, but really haven't received many emails from somebody who is 23 years old, but they are there because look what happens in Europe with their polka scene - I don't know what else to write this morning as just wanted to add my little 2 cents worth into vast long discussion that it could become and who knows who will read and could start an avalanche - wouldn't that be nice?! Thanks for sharing guys and what you do! - the Wildman
p.s. I remember that day that you sent me the Hendrix waltz "Manic Depression" Mike - That was so much fun!
p.s. I remember that day that you sent me the Hendrix waltz "Manic Depression" Mike - That was so much fun!
Robert Richter
Apr 3, 2012, 2:25:01 AM4/3/12
to
In article <806e5864-8150-483f...@w9g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
Bob, you make some good comparisons. However as is usually the case, the "proof
is in the pudding" so-to-speak. Why? Well many bands are doing as Mike has said
and you have pointed out above.
But attendance is dropping. So could it just be that the above isn't working so
well? I realize I'm playing the devils advocate here, but when what's being done
isn't working, I think you have to think outside the box a bit.
I'm in the midwest, around Chicago which is primarily a "Polish Polka" kind of
town. I've said many times that back in the heyday of the 40-60's, you could
tell which band only hearing a few bars. Not so today. In fact, when I go hear
bands, all I find is two styles here, Push and Honky. I'm still going to contend
that what is lacking is diversity. I'm thinking folks don't come out like they
used to because there's nothing different to hear but more of the same. Every
band sounds the same for the most part, and I get heat for that comment, but so
what! It's how I hear the music compared to what I think there should be out
there. If bands had the courage to get their own styles rather than just do what
everyone else is doing, things might be different. Take the IPA Band which I
heard in Jan. All really fine players with their own bands and they got together
with the stated purpose of being a tribute band playing the songs of the Hall of
Famer's in the IPA. What they mostly do though is play the Hall of Famers tunes
in their own mostly honky style. Now, if they played those tunes in the style of
the bands they are tributing, I think there might be more interest.
is in the pudding" so-to-speak. Why? Well many bands are doing as Mike has said
and you have pointed out above.
But attendance is dropping. So could it just be that the above isn't working so
well? I realize I'm playing the devils advocate here, but when what's being done
isn't working, I think you have to think outside the box a bit.
I'm in the midwest, around Chicago which is primarily a "Polish Polka" kind of
town. I've said many times that back in the heyday of the 40-60's, you could
tell which band only hearing a few bars. Not so today. In fact, when I go hear
bands, all I find is two styles here, Push and Honky. I'm still going to contend
that what is lacking is diversity. I'm thinking folks don't come out like they
used to because there's nothing different to hear but more of the same. Every
band sounds the same for the most part, and I get heat for that comment, but so
what! It's how I hear the music compared to what I think there should be out
there. If bands had the courage to get their own styles rather than just do what
everyone else is doing, things might be different. Take the IPA Band which I
heard in Jan. All really fine players with their own bands and they got together
with the stated purpose of being a tribute band playing the songs of the Hall of
Famer's in the IPA. What they mostly do though is play the Hall of Famers tunes
in their own mostly honky style. Now, if they played those tunes in the style of
the bands they are tributing, I think there might be more interest.
Kevin Kurdziel
Apr 3, 2012, 11:11:13 AM4/3/12
to
On Apr 3, 2:25 am, Robert Richter <bobb...@spammnot.wwa.com> wrote:
> In article <806e5864-8150-483f-b21a-753f06e83...@w9g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
> the bands they are tributing, I think there might be more interest.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can the change the music all you want, but if it's not marketed
correctly, it doesn't really matter. While many of the points made
above are valid, the polka genre suffers from a lack of marketing,
both on the promoters end, as well as many bands. For example, a club
running dances putting an ad in a "Polish Newspaper" and sending out a
couple of blasts on Facebook, simply does not cut it. Like any other
product out there, you have to agressively market. Build it and they
will come, or in this case book a band, and they will come, is not the
formula to success. Also, there are some bands that put out recordings
and do not distribute them consistently to IJs and DJs. How do you
expect the consumer to go see you if they don't know what you sound
like?
> In article <806e5864-8150-483f-b21a-753f06e83...@w9g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can the change the music all you want, but if it's not marketed
correctly, it doesn't really matter. While many of the points made
above are valid, the polka genre suffers from a lack of marketing,
both on the promoters end, as well as many bands. For example, a club
running dances putting an ad in a "Polish Newspaper" and sending out a
couple of blasts on Facebook, simply does not cut it. Like any other
product out there, you have to agressively market. Build it and they
will come, or in this case book a band, and they will come, is not the
formula to success. Also, there are some bands that put out recordings
and do not distribute them consistently to IJs and DJs. How do you
expect the consumer to go see you if they don't know what you sound
like?
Mike Surratt
Apr 3, 2012, 12:18:35 PM4/3/12
to
On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 11:11:13 AM UTC-4, Kevin Kurdziel wrote:
> On Apr 3, 2:25 am, >
> On Apr 3, 2:25 am, >
> You can the change the music all you want, but if it's not marketed
> correctly, it doesn't really matter. While many of the points made
> above are valid, the polka genre suffers from a lack of marketing,
> both on the promoters end, as well as many bands. For example, a club
> running dances putting an ad in a "Polish Newspaper" and sending out a
> couple of blasts on Facebook, simply does not cut it. Like any other
> product out there, you have to agressively market. Build it and they
> will come, or in this case book a band, and they will come, is not the
> formula to success. Also, there are some bands that put out recordings
> and do not distribute them consistently to IJs and DJs. How do you
> expect the consumer to go see you if they don't know what you sound
> like?>>
BINGO Kevin !
> correctly, it doesn't really matter. While many of the points made
> above are valid, the polka genre suffers from a lack of marketing,
> both on the promoters end, as well as many bands. For example, a club
> running dances putting an ad in a "Polish Newspaper" and sending out a
> couple of blasts on Facebook, simply does not cut it. Like any other
> product out there, you have to agressively market. Build it and they
> will come, or in this case book a band, and they will come, is not the
> formula to success. Also, there are some bands that put out recordings
> and do not distribute them consistently to IJs and DJs. How do you
> expect the consumer to go see you if they don't know what you sound
> like?>>
If the idea that all bands sounding alike is ruining attendance was true...no regular Country Music or Rock Music "cover band" Bar would ever stay in business. For things to work or to get people to come out of their homes and attend functions, all parties involved have to do their part. In other words, adapt, learn how to survive, or disappear.
Robert Richter
Dec 4, 2012, 1:21:18 AM12/4/12
to
In article <15280658.271.1330757783087.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbxv4>,
Mike, as I've re-read several of your posts in different threads...I've come to
an observation that what you experience is a result of the market demographic
you're in, while mine is solely a Polish Polka market. I think that has some
relevancy here to what I've been opining.
an observation that what you experience is a result of the market demographic
you're in, while mine is solely a Polish Polka market. I think that has some
relevancy here to what I've been opining.
Jim
Dec 4, 2012, 1:24:57 AM12/4/12
to
In article <4b75ecca-0b17-4e0b...@z31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
some success. But great marketing can't save a lousy product and great marketing
with a great product and bad execution(advertising) can't save a product.
With 35 years in advertising I think I know a couple of things. There is a band
in Chicago that markets, markets and markets and while they play a goodly number
of dates, I'm sure they'd like more. They have more than decent product though
it's not my absolute favorite so I like the band!
--
Jim
Kevin Kurdziel <kjkur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can the change the music all you want, but if it's not marketed
> correctly, it doesn't really matter. While many of the points made
> above are valid, the polka genre suffers from a lack of marketing,
> both on the promoters end, as well as many bands. For example, a club
> running dances putting an ad in a "Polish Newspaper" and sending out a
> couple of blasts on Facebook, simply does not cut it. Like any other
> product out there, you have to agressively market. Build it and they
> will come, or in this case book a band, and they will come, is not the
> formula to success. Also, there are some bands that put out recordings
> and do not distribute them consistently to IJs and DJs. How do you
> expect the consumer to go see you if they don't know what you sound
> like?
Kevin, you can do great marketing and have a mediocre product and still have
> You can the change the music all you want, but if it's not marketed
> correctly, it doesn't really matter. While many of the points made
> above are valid, the polka genre suffers from a lack of marketing,
> both on the promoters end, as well as many bands. For example, a club
> running dances putting an ad in a "Polish Newspaper" and sending out a
> couple of blasts on Facebook, simply does not cut it. Like any other
> product out there, you have to agressively market. Build it and they
> will come, or in this case book a band, and they will come, is not the
> formula to success. Also, there are some bands that put out recordings
> and do not distribute them consistently to IJs and DJs. How do you
> expect the consumer to go see you if they don't know what you sound
> like?
some success. But great marketing can't save a lousy product and great marketing
with a great product and bad execution(advertising) can't save a product.
With 35 years in advertising I think I know a couple of things. There is a band
in Chicago that markets, markets and markets and while they play a goodly number
of dates, I'm sure they'd like more. They have more than decent product though
it's not my absolute favorite so I like the band!
--
Jim
kjkur...@gmail.com
Dec 4, 2012, 10:38:43 AM12/4/12
to
Jim,
You make valid points. Likewise, I can attest that there are many great polka bands out there who are great entertainers. Yet many play to near empty venues because there is a general lack of promotion. I suppose we have to meet in the middle somewhere.
You make valid points. Likewise, I can attest that there are many great polka bands out there who are great entertainers. Yet many play to near empty venues because there is a general lack of promotion. I suppose we have to meet in the middle somewhere.
joh...@cox.net
Dec 4, 2012, 10:21:13 PM12/4/12
to
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