Is it really necessary for many Polka bands to release a new CD every year? They usually consist of 12 to 14 tracks. One weak attempt at an original Waltz (but likely a Lush cover), an equally weak Oberek (or a lack-luster rendition of an old classic), and then ten to twelve Polkas made up of Country & Western covers; some original sub-par English tunes (how many words can possibly rhyme with HEART!); and a few retreads thrown in to fill out the deck (is there a band that hasn't included "Pennsylvania Hills" on one of their recordings?). Why not put out a "Live" album for good measure? Almost every attempt since the Dynatones' "Live Wire" has lacked any spontaneity. Is there that much money to be made in a CD release? I doubt it. Maybe everyone is hoping to get that elusive Grammy Nomination so they can take a trip to LA and rub shoulders with the "B" list musicians that attend the "Awards given out earlier this evening" ceremony. When will the NARAS notice that you can barely differentiate between a 2006 nominated recording and a 1996 nominated recording? Isn't anyone in the industry just the least bit embarrassed that there have only been 5 different winners in 21 award ceremonies? Sturr has won or shared 15 times!!!!! It's time to rationalize the CD releases and to start putting out some unique, quality efforts. Most current efforts are a discredit to the Polka industry.
Canada-Steve wrote: > Is it really necessary for many Polka bands to release a new CD every > year? They usually consist of 12 to 14 tracks. One weak attempt at an > original Waltz (but likely a Lush cover), an equally weak Oberek (or a > lack-luster rendition of an old classic), and then ten to twelve Polkas > made up of Country & Western covers; some original sub-par English > tunes (how many words can possibly rhyme with HEART!); and a few > retreads thrown in to fill out the deck (is there a band that hasn't > included "Pennsylvania Hills" on one of their recordings?). > Why not put out a "Live" album for good measure? Almost every attempt > since the Dynatones' "Live Wire" has lacked any spontaneity. > Is there that much money to be made in a CD release? I doubt it. > Maybe everyone is hoping to get that elusive Grammy Nomination so they > can take a trip to LA and rub shoulders with the "B" list musicians > that attend the "Awards given out earlier this evening" ceremony. When > will the NARAS notice that you can barely differentiate between a 2006 > nominated recording and a 1996 nominated recording? Isn't anyone in the > industry just the least bit embarrassed that there have only been 5 > different winners in 21 award ceremonies? Sturr has won or shared 15 > times!!!!! > It's time to rationalize the CD releases and to start putting out some > unique, quality efforts. Most current efforts are a discredit to the > Polka industry.
Hi Canada-Steve,
Not sure if it's necessary, but my guess is that some polka bands might think it's important to put out a CD every yerar just to stay on the radar. There can't be much real money in it. Even though winning a Grammy is very unlikely, maybe the chance to win an IPA or USPA award makes it worth their while. Like you, I think polka music would be better off if bands took their time and put out something that's really good and fresh - even if it's every couple of years. By the way, are you a band leader? Sounds like you've been to the Grammies.
Canada-Steve wrote: > Is it really necessary for many Polka bands to release a new CD every > year? They usually consist of 12 to 14 tracks. One weak attempt at an > original Waltz (but likely a Lush cover), an equally weak Oberek (or a > lack-luster rendition of an old classic), and then ten to twelve Polkas > made up of Country & Western covers; some original sub-par English > tunes (how many words can possibly rhyme with HEART!); and a few > retreads thrown in to fill out the deck (is there a band that hasn't > included "Pennsylvania Hills" on one of their recordings?). > Why not put out a "Live" album for good measure? Almost every attempt > since the Dynatones' "Live Wire" has lacked any spontaneity. > Is there that much money to be made in a CD release? I doubt it. > Maybe everyone is hoping to get that elusive Grammy Nomination so they > can take a trip to LA and rub shoulders with the "B" list musicians > that attend the "Awards given out earlier this evening" ceremony. When > will the NARAS notice that you can barely differentiate between a 2006 > nominated recording and a 1996 nominated recording? Isn't anyone in the > industry just the least bit embarrassed that there have only been 5 > different winners in 21 award ceremonies? Sturr has won or shared 15 > times!!!!! > It's time to rationalize the CD releases and to start putting out some > unique, quality efforts. Most current efforts are a discredit to the > Polka industry.
A clever and well-informed contribution: it would be great to have more quality in recordings, as opposed to quantity. A lot of recordings fit the description you give, but fortunately quite a few rise above it, too, I think ( see previous threads on peoples' favorite recordings and related subjects).
I guess I'm suprised you feel this way. I'd also like to ask what you consider a good recording? Please list a few of your favorites.
It is my opinion that your opinion of original material is a bit skewed. If you don't like the original material, fine. But to say it is sub-par is ridiculous. Have you really listened to some of the classics? The lyrics are dated by todays standards, but writers have been writing about the same things for 60 years. If you don't like the re-recording of classics, fine. I tend to like an old time classic re-done by some of todays bands. And no, not everyone recorded Pennsylvania Hills.
So there you have it. Can't do any covers, or old time classics, or originals.
Please tell me what consists of a great recording so I can go to work on creating a 'rational' one for your collection. Your post suggests it's a collection of instumentals, never heard by anyone.
Not a great marketing idea or promotional concept. BTW....When was your last CD released?
I agree that a lot of songs are just remakes of Lush waltzes or Wally obereks (or at least arrangments). And sometimes I can't help but wonder if younger polka fans even know who the original artists are on these songs....they just love the push style or polka country style remakes of them, yet it's so easy to NOT like the "old folk's polka music" where they actually originated. Lest we forget, how many of our "new" songs that are coming out yearly were made famous by... oh say, Blazonczyk for example 40 years ago, but the arrangement was recorded by Marisha Data 50 years ago, but the song came from some Polish village 120 years ago! However, I see nothing wrong with recording these songs, it's how we keep them alive.
But, I do think we could be doing a lot more to preserve/revive plenty of old and obscure songs. Example: When was the last time you heard somebody record a Steve Adamczyk tune? Or a Mickey Krupski tune? (anybody out there even heard of him?!) Or a Steve Fornek song? We just keep recording the same songs over and over again, as great as they are, how many times can one remake "Zielona Trawecka" or "Pukaj Jasiu"? Dig up some OLD recordings! Be they Chicago style, Eastern style, or straight from Poland itself. There are so so many beautiful, catchy, lyrically masterful, awesome Polish songs that nobody records (especially some amazing minor key tunes). A country with over 1000 years of history, is gonna produce more than "Szla Dziewecka" or "Goralska Polka".
Dig deep ye great polka musicians! Find thy Polish roots! Break out the old 78's! Order some goralska muzyka from Poland! It may sound rediculous coming from a 20 year old, but... could it hurt to throw a couple songs on there that nobody, other than a handful of people, will recognize?
All good points, but us listeners out here are pretty bored. I can walk into a dance hall today, having been away from polkas for twenty or thirty years, and still here the same tunes being played live. That's not keeping it alive, that's over-killing it. Come on musicians! No wonder you have an attendance problem! No one wants to pay to hear a broken record, much less over the course of twenty or thirty years! I could probably only name four or five brilliant writers today who are coming out with songs that don't insult my intelligence, ones that sound good enough for my non-polka friends to listen to. My husband and I like the older tunes, but we need more new good sounding original songs too.
Unfortunately, in this business you're kinda "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" when it comes to these issues, (in my opinion):
The majority of people that actually come up and buy recordings, 90% of the time ask for the old standards, like puka jasiu, green grass, jailbird, etc... which are the same songs they request at every dance.... why???? I wish I knew... It seems that most of the older generation of people that come to dances only want to hear those songs.... As a band, your goal is to please the listener and the folks that are paying their way into the dance and actually purchasing the CD's, so of course, you're going to try to play what they want to hear, and following that same logic, you're going to record what they want to hear.... (again, because they are PAYING for the recordings... not simply burning CD's off the internet or getting copies from one of their friends, which is a WHOLE other issue in itself) There are some excellent writers out there... Mike Costa, Dan Gury, the Wanderlich brothers, Hank Guzevich, Jimmy Weber, Randy Koslosky.... just to name a few...... The problem is that for some reason the people that are buying the recordings are only requesting the old standards.... WHY IS THAT?
Could it have something to do with polka radio and internet polka shows? I think so.... turn on MOST polka shows, and you're going to hear the same old stuff you've been hearing for the past 20 or 30 years... you hear the same requests for the same people week after week... you hear the same songs from the same old RECORDS by bands that haven't been around for at least 10 years... You have DJ's who simply can not SHUT UP and play music.... Most of the time, you don't hear new recordings, and if you do, it seems they only play the standards that are on the recording (while they talk on top of the music for half the song, or sing along in their studio, again on top of the music). I don't think polka radio and polka internet shows realize what an important part they play in educating the "polka public". I honestly believe most people come to dances and at the very least subconsciously, expect to hear what they hear on the radio and on the internet.... (Marion Lush, Little Wally, Happy Louie, Eddie Blazonczyk Sr.) They don't want to hear anything new.... because they haven't been exposed to it in any way shape or form.... if they don't hear the standards that they're expecting, they don't come back....
I think most bands WANT to record new stuff, and would like to record original material, but I think there's a good portion of us out here that are afraid it simply won't sell as well as the "standards" do.... let's face it folks... recording and duplicating a CD is not cheap.... and I'm just talking about studio time and production costs for the actual CD's... Not to mention the time off work, time and expenses incurred while traveling to and from the studio... gas, tolls, hotel rooms, etc.... What I think a lot of bands have figured out, is that if we record enough "standards" the majority of people that are actually purchasing CD's will buy them.... It has been my experience that a majority of the CD sales come from the older generation.... Frankly, without that generation purchasing recordings, there's really no point in doing it... there's a large portion of the younger generation that gives copies to their buddies, record it off the internet, or simply DON'T BUY IT AT ALL because they can turn on their computer any time of the day and night and listen to polkas.
It is also my opinion that the BIGGER problem we have at this point, is exactly what "Zee" said in her post.... "....having been away from polkas for twenty or thirty years...."..... Why is that? Where are all these people that grew up listening to polkas and going to dances with their family or friends? How is it possible that (for example), a festival is run in Chicago, IL, and barely manages to get 200 people in the door??!?!??? Where are all the "middle age" (no offense) people????
IN A PERFECT WORLD, If we can start getting "butts in seats", it's my opinion that you'll start to see a ripple effect: People come to dances. Bands get busy playing more than 20 or 30 jobs a year, and making decent money. Other musicians take note of this and start their own groups, and start playing their own material... bands are competitive, so everyone would be "stepping it up" to write more creative and original material.... the bands benefit, the fans benefit, the promoters benefit.....
It's not a perfect world though.... Just my opinion.... I'd love to hear everyone's opinions of how this is supposed to work.... (especially the people that actually HAVE BANDS or actually COME TO DANCES)....
Just my thoughts...
Ted Lange
"Zee Zee" <zosiazo...@Comcast.net> wrote in message
> All good points, but us listeners out here are pretty bored. I can walk > into a dance hall today, having been away from polkas for twenty or > thirty years, and still here the same tunes being played live. That's > not keeping it alive, that's over-killing it. Come on musicians! No > wonder you have an attendance problem! No one wants to pay to hear a > broken record, much less over the course of twenty or thirty years! I > could probably only name four or five brilliant writers today who are > coming out with songs that don't insult my intelligence, ones that > sound good enough for my non-polka friends to listen to. My husband and > I like the older tunes, but we need more new good sounding original > songs too.
The only thing this post is doing is slapping the musicians/bands in the face who perform tunes from the past (Ampol Aires, Zima, Lush, Wally).
Yes, maybe recording the same tunes over & over again may be overkill in your opinion, but those tunes are tunes are 'standards' that one would expect a band to play. To me it is showing that the band/musicians are not all about putting 12-14 brand new tunes on a CD & to hell with the classic material.
As far as Live CD's, I think that every band should make an attempt to record a live cd. What is the next best thing to driving hours or flying to see your favorite polka band? Listening to a live recording. To hear the people cheer & the energy of the musicians playing to the crowd is enough to bring a smile to any polka fan. If my memory is correct...don't the hotel parties that go on after a dance sometime consist of someone having a live recording of a polka band playing at USPA, Frankenmuth, Springs, etc?
As far as the Polka Grammy, that my friend is a delicate subject due to the fact that anything said against Stur makes more people upset than anything else...But I will say that IMHO....Stur has a greater chance & advantage because he is signed on a national recording label witch does not mean allot to me & you, but when it comes to comparing Rounder records to a recording label that is done in a studio built in your home the national record label is going to have the considerable advantage because of marketing.
Ted Lange wrote: > Unfortunately, in this business you're kinda "damned if you do, and damned > if you don't" when it comes to these issues, (in my opinion):
> The majority of people that actually come up and buy recordings, 90% of > the time ask for the old standards, like puka jasiu, green grass, jailbird, > etc... which are the same songs they request at every dance.... why???? I > wish I knew... It seems that most of the older generation of people that > come to dances only want to hear those songs.... As a band, your goal is to > please the listener and the folks that are paying their way into the dance > and actually purchasing the CD's, so of course, you're going to try to play > what they want to hear, and following that same logic, you're going to > record what they want to hear.... (again, because they are PAYING for the > recordings... not simply burning CD's off the internet or getting copies > from one of their friends, which is a WHOLE other issue in itself) There > are some excellent writers out there... Mike Costa, Dan Gury, the > Wanderlich brothers, Hank Guzevich, Jimmy Weber, Randy Koslosky.... just to > name a few...... The problem is that for some reason the people that are > buying the recordings are only requesting the old standards.... WHY IS > THAT?
> Could it have something to do with polka radio and internet polka > shows? I think so.... turn on MOST polka shows, and you're going to hear > the same old stuff you've been hearing for the past 20 or 30 years... you > hear the same requests for the same people week after week... you hear the > same songs from the same old RECORDS by bands that haven't been around for > at least 10 years... You have DJ's who simply can not SHUT UP and play > music.... Most of the time, you don't hear new recordings, and if you do, > it seems they only play the standards that are on the recording (while they > talk on top of the music for half the song, or sing along in their studio, > again on top of the music). I don't think polka radio and polka internet > shows realize what an important part they play in educating the "polka > public". I honestly believe most people come to dances and at the very > least subconsciously, expect to hear what they hear on the radio and on the > internet.... (Marion Lush, Little Wally, Happy Louie, Eddie Blazonczyk Sr.) > They don't want to hear anything new.... because they haven't been exposed > to it in any way shape or form.... if they don't hear the standards that > they're expecting, they don't come back....
> I think most bands WANT to record new stuff, and would like to record > original material, but I think there's a good portion of us out here that > are afraid it simply won't sell as well as the "standards" do.... let's > face it folks... recording and duplicating a CD is not cheap.... and I'm > just talking about studio time and production costs for the actual CD's... > Not to mention the time off work, time and expenses incurred while traveling > to and from the studio... gas, tolls, hotel rooms, etc.... What I think a > lot of bands have figured out, is that if we record enough "standards" the > majority of people that are actually purchasing CD's will buy them.... It > has been my experience that a majority of the CD sales come from the older > generation.... Frankly, without that generation purchasing recordings, > there's really no point in doing it... there's a large portion of the > younger generation that gives copies to their buddies, record it off the > internet, or simply DON'T BUY IT AT ALL because they can turn on their > computer any time of the day and night and listen to polkas.
> It is also my opinion that the BIGGER problem we have at this point, is > exactly what "Zee" said in her post.... "....having been away from polkas > for twenty or thirty years...."..... Why is that? Where are all these > people that grew up listening to polkas and going to dances with their > family or friends? How is it possible that (for example), a festival is run > in Chicago, IL, and barely manages to get 200 people in the door??!?!??? > Where are all the "middle age" (no offense) people????
> IN A PERFECT WORLD, If we can start getting "butts in seats", it's my > opinion that you'll start to see a ripple effect: People come to dances. > Bands get busy playing more than 20 or 30 jobs a year, and making decent > money. Other musicians take note of this and start their own groups, and > start playing their own material... bands are competitive, so everyone > would be "stepping it up" to write more creative and original material.... > the bands benefit, the fans benefit, the promoters benefit.....
> It's not a perfect world though.... Just my opinion.... I'd love to hear > everyone's opinions of how this is supposed to work.... (especially the > people that actually HAVE BANDS or actually COME TO DANCES)....
> Just my thoughts...
> Ted Lange
> "Zee Zee" <zosiazo...@Comcast.net> wrote in message > news:1158845235.324104.155300@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > All good points, but us listeners out here are pretty bored. I can walk > > into a dance hall today, having been away from polkas for twenty or > > thirty years, and still here the same tunes being played live. That's > > not keeping it alive, that's over-killing it. Come on musicians! No > > wonder you have an attendance problem! No one wants to pay to hear a > > broken record, much less over the course of twenty or thirty years! I > > could probably only name four or five brilliant writers today who are > > coming out with songs that don't insult my intelligence, ones that > > sound good enough for my non-polka friends to listen to. My husband and > > I like the older tunes, but we need more new good sounding original > > songs too.
Not trying to knock the bands of the past at all here... simply addressing the previous question regarding why there is nothing "new" being recorded or played.... I too am a fan of many of the bands in the past, and frequently buy the "old recordings" so I can enjoy them. The Ampol Aires are really not a very good band to use as an argument, considering they ARE still playing today, last time I checked....
In regards to live recordings: Why would a band want to spend thousands of dollars to record live, when as you already stated: ".... don't the hotel parties that go on after a dance sometime consist of someone having a live recording of a polka band playing at USPA, Frankenmuth, Springs, etc?" GREAT!!!! (please note sarcasm)... Another recording of a band where the band is NOT being compensated for, and the band never approved, in a lot of cases....
The bands spend plenty of money on their regular recordings, that already get bumped from airplay by rotten quality amateur made recordings of bands playing live, where in most cases, the sound is ghastly, usually coming from someone dubbing the audio off their camcorder, and then playing it on their radio show or internet polka show.... and BTW.... the bands are almost NEVER asked for their approval of these sometimes god-awful recordings..... What a 'wonderful' way to showcase the bands that ARE still out there trying to perform... (note sarcasm again).....
> The only thing this post is doing is slapping the musicians/bands in the > face who perform tunes from the past (Ampol Aires, Zima, Lush, Wally).
> Yes, maybe recording the same tunes over & over again may be overkill in > your opinion, but those tunes are tunes are 'standards' that one would > expect a band to play. To me it is showing that the band/musicians are > not > all about putting 12-14 brand new tunes on a CD & to hell with the classic > material.
> As far as Live CD's, I think that every band should make an attempt to > record a live cd. What is the next best thing to driving hours or flying > to > see your favorite polka band? Listening to a live recording. To hear the > people cheer & the energy of the musicians playing to the crowd is enough > to > bring a smile to any polka fan. If my memory is correct...don't the hotel > parties that go on after a dance sometime consist of someone having a live > recording of a polka band playing at USPA, Frankenmuth, Springs, etc?
> As far as the Polka Grammy, that my friend is a delicate subject due to > the > fact that anything said against Stur makes more people upset than anything > else...But I will say that IMHO....Stur has a greater chance & advantage > because he is signed on a national recording label witch does not mean > allot > to me & you, but when it comes to comparing Rounder records to a recording > label that is done in a studio built in your home the national record > label > is going to have the considerable advantage because of marketing.
Should a successful pop recording group of today be shunned for not recording or playing a Frank Sinatra song at a concert? After all, those are standards. Is it a slap in the face to Frank Sinatra for a group like Red Hot Chilli Peppers to not do a Frank tune?
If we expect bands to play all the old standards, everywhere we go, every radio and internet show we listen to, and on every CD they record, then there will be NO NEW STANDARDS. Is the writing over? Have you written all the good songs already? Should you just play them over and over and over and over and over and over and over and call it done?
Mr Lange had some excellent points about us listeners not being exposed to the new stuff. Most DJs and IJs are afraid to play songs that they don't think their listeners will "understand" or "appreciate". Bull Dinkies! I recently found some great internet polka shows, ones that play interesting songs that I've never heard before. OK, perhaps some standards are OK in moderation from time to time.
Bands - Write, Play, and Record what you want! Take a chance and leave the "Roll Out The Barrel" sheet music at home.
Zee Zee wrote: > Should a successful pop recording group of today be shunned for not > recording or playing a Frank Sinatra song at a concert? After all, > those are standards. Is it a slap in the face to Frank Sinatra for a > group like Red Hot Chilli Peppers to not do a Frank tune?
> If we expect bands to play all the old standards, everywhere we go, > every radio and internet show we listen to, and on every CD they > record, then there will be NO NEW STANDARDS. Is the writing over? Have > you written all the good songs already? Should you just play them over > and over and over and over and over and over and over and call it done?
> Mr Lange had some excellent points about us listeners not being exposed > to the new stuff. Most DJs and IJs are afraid to play songs that they > don't think their listeners will "understand" or "appreciate". Bull > Dinkies! I recently found some great internet polka shows, ones that > play interesting songs that I've never heard before. OK, perhaps some > standards are OK in moderation from time to time.
> Bands - Write, Play, and Record what you want! Take a chance and leave > the "Roll Out The Barrel" sheet music at home.
> Just a listener's opinion!
> - Zee Zee
Zee Zee While I am a firm believer in everyone's right to their own opinion, I am somewhat surprised at the "absoluteness" of your post; no more standards, no good music currently being written. With all due respect, it comes dangerously close to 'those who can write, those who can't criticize'. I appreciate the point that you are a little frustrated with hearing particular songs over and over; but for every person who is tired of any of a variety (avoiding names so as not to disparage anyone) there are 3 more who request that song every dance. While the Red Hot Chili Peppers may not play Sinatra at their concerts many bands (rock included) do. It is not unheard of for a major act to play a "cover" (loose translation standard) during a concert. Additionally, I think you would have to agree that Frank has far more universal appeal then the Chili Peppers, lasting a mulititude of decades. Recordings are very personal to most, if not all, artists; the artistic expression of their creativity, whether writing the music or just interpreting (playing) it. Recording for many may be a way to share their expression with the public. If you don't care for it, you don't need to purchase or play it. There are people who really enjoy the recorded expression of an artist's interpretation. I imagine most people who pen a song, especially for recording, don't think it's a bad song. I would suggest if you are looking for something "different", a new sound, you might try a new thread investigating that. There are a few bands that I can think of that avoid playing the standards you are weary of. {although to be honest, I really don't recall hearing Beer Barrel all that much! :) }
Perhaps I was too "absolute". I don't mean to sound that way. Maybe it's the frustration, I dunno. I did say that standards are OK in moderation.
I love listening to Happy Louie recordings because of Happy Louie himself. I loved his voice and his band. For me no one else can duplicate him. His charm and talent were more important than the songs. Although songs and artists are somehow always married in time. When we hear them it brings back memories of when we first heard them or of good times gone by. That is why people request songs over and over. That's why people can be very defensive of them, because it's not the songs, it's the memories they represent. And that's OK. But we also have to encourage our bands of today to create quality songs and recordings (perhaps not every year) to give new listeners some memories of their own and old listeners something fresh to hear.
Tom, I'm not saying that ALL original songs are sub-par. When I listen to a lot of Polka albums/CD's released over the past 40 years there may often be 1 or 2 decent original songs on each one. I can have this opinion because my father has purchased hundreds of Polka recordings over the years and I have listened to most of them. I'll admit that a lot of the standards contain pretty silly lyrics as well. I'm only 37 but I like the older stuff better than the newer stuff. I also love a "NEW ARRANGEMENT" of an old classic. I also believe that Polish vocals come across better on a tune than English vocals. The verses are usually just as corny, but in Polish they seem to flow so much more nicely. That's not to say that there hasn't been a lot of hot English polkas come out over the years as well. I'm not saying don't to covers or classics, or don't do originals and just do instrumentals. I'm saying don't churn out a CD every year for the sake of churning one out. Be selective, put out new adaptations, construct new arrangements. Cranking out crap isn't a very good marketing or promotional idea either. There are a lot of choices for ones entertainment dollar these days. I continue to support Polka music because I'm passionate about the genre. I want to see it last for many years to come so that my children can be exposed to it as well. I applaud the efforts of hard working bandleaders and musicians like you. I know that most of you have full-time jobs outside of the Polka industry and that many of your performances take you away from your families in order to entertain Polkas fans like me. I just wanted to use this forum to air a few opinions. I look forward to taking the time to discuss these issues and others with you at a future Polka event. Keep up the good work.
> I guess I'm suprised you feel this way. I'd also like to ask what you > consider a good recording? Please list a few of your favorites.
> It is my opinion that your opinion of original material is a bit > skewed. If you don't like the original material, fine. But to say it is > sub-par is ridiculous. Have you really listened to some of the > classics? The lyrics are dated by todays standards, but writers have > been writing about the same things for 60 years. If you don't like the > re-recording of classics, fine. I tend to like an old time classic > re-done by some of todays bands. And no, not everyone recorded > Pennsylvania Hills.
> So there you have it. Can't do any covers, or old time classics, or > originals.
> Please tell me what consists of a great recording so I can go to work > on creating a 'rational' one for your collection. Your post suggests > it's a collection of instumentals, never heard by anyone.
> Not a great marketing idea or promotional concept. BTW....When was your > last CD released?
Ted, I agree with a good part of your post. I'm glad that my original post has stirred the passions of some Polka fans and those in the industry. I am the proud owner of many great Polka CD's, Vinyl albums, and cassettes (not burned or copied). I grew up in Windsor, ON and have attended countless dances, picnics, and church festivals in the Michigan, Ontario, New York, and Illinois areas. I also have no problem paying (and have on numerous occasions) $10, $12, $15 or more in admission to attend these functions. If a festival is "free", I support the church or organization bringing the bands in by purchasing raffle tickets, beer (often lots of this commodity!), food, and many other items that are offered. If you don't buy a raffle ticket from "siostra", the parish won't bring back the bands! I see a lot of people, however, that continue to soak up the free entertainment without reaching for their wallet or purse. I've been to the Chicago dances with less than 200 people. I'm talking multiple, top name bands. I don't know why? I grew up listening to polkas and now my kids love polkas. In many the passion dies. Ask my father. He's 62 and attended Polka functions since the 50's. Only a hand-full of people he hung out with back then still go to polka functions. I've had the pleasure of speaking to you personally, Ted, on a few occasions. I appreciate your candour and I look forward to the next time we can continue this healthy debate.
Ted Lange wrote: > Unfortunately, in this business you're kinda "damned if you do, and damned > if you don't" when it comes to these issues, (in my opinion):
> The majority of people that actually come up and buy recordings, 90% of > the time ask for the old standards, like puka jasiu, green grass, jailbird, > etc... which are the same songs they request at every dance.... why???? I > wish I knew... It seems that most of the older generation of people that > come to dances only want to hear those songs.... As a band, your goal is to > please the listener and the folks that are paying their way into the dance > and actually purchasing the CD's, so of course, you're going to try to play > what they want to hear, and following that same logic, you're going to > record what they want to hear.... (again, because they are PAYING for the > recordings... not simply burning CD's off the internet or getting copies > from one of their friends, which is a WHOLE other issue in itself) There > are some excellent writers out there... Mike Costa, Dan Gury, the > Wanderlich brothers, Hank Guzevich, Jimmy Weber, Randy Koslosky.... just to > name a few...... The problem is that for some reason the people that are > buying the recordings are only requesting the old standards.... WHY IS > THAT?
> Could it have something to do with polka radio and internet polka > shows? I think so.... turn on MOST polka shows, and you're going to hear > the same old stuff you've been hearing for the past 20 or 30 years... you > hear the same requests for the same people week after week... you hear the > same songs from the same old RECORDS by bands that haven't been around for > at least 10 years... You have DJ's who simply can not SHUT UP and play > music.... Most of the time, you don't hear new recordings, and if you do, > it seems they only play the standards that are on the recording (while they > talk on top of the music for half the song, or sing along in their studio, > again on top of the music). I don't think polka radio and polka internet > shows realize what an important part they play in educating the "polka > public". I honestly believe most people come to dances and at the very > least subconsciously, expect to hear what they hear on the radio and on the > internet.... (Marion Lush, Little Wally, Happy Louie, Eddie Blazonczyk Sr.) > They don't want to hear anything new.... because they haven't been exposed > to it in any way shape or form.... if they don't hear the standards that > they're expecting, they don't come back....
> I think most bands WANT to record new stuff, and would like to record > original material, but I think there's a good portion of us out here that > are afraid it simply won't sell as well as the "standards" do.... let's > face it folks... recording and duplicating a CD is not cheap.... and I'm > just talking about studio time and production costs for the actual CD's... > Not to mention the time off work, time and expenses incurred while traveling > to and from the studio... gas, tolls, hotel rooms, etc.... What I think a > lot of bands have figured out, is that if we record enough "standards" the > majority of people that are actually purchasing CD's will buy them.... It > has been my experience that a majority of the CD sales come from the older > generation.... Frankly, without that generation purchasing recordings, > there's really no point in doing it... there's a large portion of the > younger generation that gives copies to their buddies, record it off the > internet, or simply DON'T BUY IT AT ALL because they can turn on their > computer any time of the day and night and listen to polkas.
> It is also my opinion that the BIGGER problem we have at this point, is > exactly what "Zee" said in her post.... "....having been away from polkas > for twenty or thirty years...."..... Why is that? Where are all these > people that grew up listening to polkas and going to dances with their > family or friends? How is it possible that (for example), a festival is run > in Chicago, IL, and barely manages to get 200 people in the door??!?!??? > Where are all the "middle age" (no offense) people????
> IN A PERFECT WORLD, If we can start getting "butts in seats", it's my > opinion that you'll start to see a ripple effect: People come to dances. > Bands get busy playing more than 20 or 30 jobs a year, and making decent > money. Other musicians take note of this and start their own groups, and > start playing their own material... bands are competitive, so everyone > would be "stepping it up" to write more creative and original material.... > the bands benefit, the fans benefit, the promoters benefit.....
> It's not a perfect world though.... Just my opinion.... I'd love to hear > everyone's opinions of how this is supposed to work.... (especially the > people that actually HAVE BANDS or actually COME TO DANCES)....
> Just my thoughts...
> Ted Lange
> "Zee Zee" <zosiazo...@Comcast.net> wrote in message > news:1158845235.324104.155300@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > All good points, but us listeners out here are pretty bored. I can walk > > into a dance hall today, having been away from polkas for twenty or > > thirty years, and still here the same tunes being played live. That's > > not keeping it alive, that's over-killing it. Come on musicians! No > > wonder you have an attendance problem! No one wants to pay to hear a > > broken record, much less over the course of twenty or thirty years! I > > could probably only name four or five brilliant writers today who are > > coming out with songs that don't insult my intelligence, ones that > > sound good enough for my non-polka friends to listen to. My husband and > > I like the older tunes, but we need more new good sounding original > > songs too.
I probably should get involved in this discussion but my inner-self made me do it.
Let's start with the story of several years back when I was talking with a band during a break at a gig in Central NY State. Some of the musicians were talking about The Sounds (they were not active at the time), and one of guys in the band said, "who are The Sounds?" OK, the guy was a few years younger than me, but his remarks shocked me and others in the the band.
The point to this, there are "many" (many hundreds) of songs from the past polka years, and bands as well, that most aren't even famiilar with. (yeah, I shouldn't end with with <G>)
I'm sure you, Ted, and other musicians here have been asked for some obscure request off an album that you may not know. We all know there are "sleeper" tunes that never get airplay. Can we "all" imagine a radio show that actually plays these "sleeper" tunes? I've yet to hear one.
Locally, I can hear the same two dozen tunes over and over every week. I end up turning off the radio.
Originals are great if they have those qualities that make them "good" originals. Eddie Sr did many like this, as did Lenny G. Tunes that you heard them once and immediately sang along with the chorus of the tune.
However, let's talk about all the really "bad" originals that are found on albums. They get played once when you first listen to the CD, and then you push the SKIP button everytime afterwards.
You are absolutely correct with your statement about "songs that sell." Steel City Brass proved that many times by recording "standards" and selling more CDS with them, than other bands did with "originals."
For me, I still listen to the Polka Ghents bring my baby back again or Greg Nowak on box with Pickles and Peppers or Lush doing In the Evening.
As for discussion here, this thread has brought a new freshness to the Newsgroup. Thanks!
What I have experienced in my 30+ years on a bandstand is the fact that even outside of the polka world, most 'older' people don't like change, period.
I'm sick of playing "New York, New York" (since Sinatra was mentioned) --
There are hundreds of great Sinatra standards, but NY,NY will get most people dancing and most will sit down if you play some other tune like "Summer Wind." (just an example).
So, we are talking about human nature...
In the recent (last 10 years or so) polka recording world, there have many been great songs written by many bands and artists. Have all of them (originals) received airplay, don't think so. I personally do not like "polka" covers of 50's/60's/70's/80's rock/country songs which do seem to get a lot of airplay. I prefer to turn on "oldies XYZ FM or "froggy mama took the train and dog to jail Kickin COUNTRY" to listen to those songs. I enjoy original polka material including "Those Pennsylvania Hills."
I'm not gonna knock any DJ/IJ for their playlists. They produce the shows, but, I will say that most DJ/IJ will play requests, SO WILL BANDS.
You want change in the polka world -- EMAIL, CALL DJs/IJs Tell distributors (or the band) that you won't buy that new CD with all the "old" songs on it...see if the distributor will continue to stock that CD if sales fall and maybe, the bands will listen too.
oops -- gotta go as I'm off to begin another Oktoberfest season -- and will have to eat a lot of chicken dance once again. I've changed the name of the Beer Barrel Polka to the Beer Belly Polka anyway. That's new, huh? ::smile::
Canada-Steve wrote: > Is it really necessary for many Polka bands to release a new CD every > year? They usually consist of 12 to 14 tracks. One weak attempt at an > original Waltz (but likely a Lush cover), an equally weak Oberek (or a > lack-luster rendition of an old classic), and then ten to twelve Polkas > made up of Country & Western covers; some original sub-par English > tunes (how many words can possibly rhyme with HEART!); and a few > retreads thrown in to fill out the deck (is there a band that hasn't > included "Pennsylvania Hills" on one of their recordings?). > Why not put out a "Live" album for good measure? Almost every attempt > since the Dynatones' "Live Wire" has lacked any spontaneity. > Is there that much money to be made in a CD release? I doubt it. > Maybe everyone is hoping to get that elusive Grammy Nomination so they > can take a trip to LA and rub shoulders with the "B" list musicians > that attend the "Awards given out earlier this evening" ceremony. When > will the NARAS notice that you can barely differentiate between a 2006 > nominated recording and a 1996 nominated recording? Isn't anyone in the > industry just the least bit embarrassed that there have only been 5 > different winners in 21 award ceremonies? Sturr has won or shared 15 > times!!!!! > It's time to rationalize the CD releases and to start putting out some > unique, quality efforts. Most current efforts are a discredit to the > Polka industry.
Simple answer for me, because it's been fun to record. We've done it primarily for the camraderie in the studio, and as a bonus, some folks like it and buy the CDs. Barely break even in cost, but we've always tried to produce a decent product with a mix of some originals, new arrangements of standards, and crossover from other genres.
As for the Grammies, honestly don't care any more, and haven't for a while. Don't have the time to do the politics needed to reign in enough votes, even if the material deserved such artistic consideration. We are plain and simple "weekend warriors", and I'd be naive and a very frustrated individual if I thought that it didn't take significantly more time and money than I can devote to produce and market a product with the intent of a Grammy nomination.
In summary, it's a hobby, not a full time job, and we have simply tried to have some fun while producing something along the way that folks seem to enjoy. That's how I've rationalized producing our CDs. Not sure if this meets your standards or criteria for an unique, quality effort, but frankly, we've had fun over the years, produced some decent products, broke even financially, and have made some polka fans happy while doing so. That's been reason enough to produce a CD every year from where I sit.
Bill Palo A Touch of Chicago
"Canada-Steve" <kingofpol...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> Is it really necessary for many Polka bands to release a new CD every > year? They usually consist of 12 to 14 tracks. One weak attempt at an > original Waltz (but likely a Lush cover), an equally weak Oberek (or a > lack-luster rendition of an old classic), and then ten to twelve Polkas > made up of Country & Western covers; some original sub-par English > tunes (how many words can possibly rhyme with HEART!); and a few > retreads thrown in to fill out the deck (is there a band that hasn't > included "Pennsylvania Hills" on one of their recordings?). > Why not put out a "Live" album for good measure? Almost every attempt > since the Dynatones' "Live Wire" has lacked any spontaneity. > Is there that much money to be made in a CD release? I doubt it. > Maybe everyone is hoping to get that elusive Grammy Nomination so they > can take a trip to LA and rub shoulders with the "B" list musicians > that attend the "Awards given out earlier this evening" ceremony. When > will the NARAS notice that you can barely differentiate between a 2006 > nominated recording and a 1996 nominated recording? Isn't anyone in the > industry just the least bit embarrassed that there have only been 5 > different winners in 21 award ceremonies? Sturr has won or shared 15 > times!!!!! > It's time to rationalize the CD releases and to start putting out some > unique, quality efforts. Most current efforts are a discredit to the > Polka industry.
Bill wrote: > Simple answer for me, because it's been fun to record. We've done it > primarily for the camraderie in the studio, and as a bonus, some folks like > it and buy the CDs. Barely break even in cost, but we've always tried to > produce a decent product with a mix of some originals, new arrangements of > standards, and crossover from other genres.
> As for the Grammies, honestly don't care any more, and haven't for a while. > Don't have the time to do the politics needed to reign in enough votes, even > if the material deserved such artistic consideration. We are plain and > simple "weekend warriors", and I'd be naive and a very frustrated individual > if I thought that it didn't take significantly more time and money than I > can devote to produce and market a product with the intent of a Grammy > nomination.
> In summary, it's a hobby, not a full time job, and we have simply tried to > have some fun while producing something along the way that folks seem to > enjoy. That's how I've rationalized producing our CDs. Not sure if this > meets your standards or criteria for an unique, quality effort, but frankly, > we've had fun over the years, produced some decent products, broke even > financially, and have made some polka fans happy while doing so. That's been > reason enough to produce a CD every year from where I sit.
> Bill Palo > A Touch of Chicago > "Canada-Steve" <kingofpol...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message > news:1158773302.320703.270310@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > > Is it really necessary for many Polka bands to release a new CD every > > year? They usually consist of 12 to 14 tracks. One weak attempt at an > > original Waltz (but likely a Lush cover), an equally weak Oberek (or a > > lack-luster rendition of an old classic), and then ten to twelve Polkas > > made up of Country & Western covers; some original sub-par English > > tunes (how many words can possibly rhyme with HEART!); and a few > > retreads thrown in to fill out the deck (is there a band that hasn't > > included "Pennsylvania Hills" on one of their recordings?). > > Why not put out a "Live" album for good measure? Almost every attempt > > since the Dynatones' "Live Wire" has lacked any spontaneity. > > Is there that much money to be made in a CD release? I doubt it. > > Maybe everyone is hoping to get that elusive Grammy Nomination so they > > can take a trip to LA and rub shoulders with the "B" list musicians > > that attend the "Awards given out earlier this evening" ceremony. When > > will the NARAS notice that you can barely differentiate between a 2006 > > nominated recording and a 1996 nominated recording? Isn't anyone in the > > industry just the least bit embarrassed that there have only been 5 > > different winners in 21 award ceremonies? Sturr has won or shared 15 > > times!!!!! > > It's time to rationalize the CD releases and to start putting out some > > unique, quality efforts. Most current efforts are a discredit to the > > Polka industry.
Bill, Great angle on recording a CD. As they say, "No harm, no foul". If someone likes the product and no one loses any money, that's great. I can appreciate your take on camaraderie, having a good time, and Polkas being a hobby. If that's what it's about, that's great. I just don't want to hear anyone complaining that the Polka genre is not being taken "seriously" or questions why it doesn't have a more mass appeal. For those that don't care about these things, your rationale is spot on. For those that do care (and I know they're out there), they need to be more conscientious of the product they put out and of the quality of their live performances if they want to appeal to a bigger audience. Regards, Steve
Bill wrote: > Simple answer for me, because it's been fun to record. We've done it > primarily for the camraderie in the studio, and as a bonus, some folks like > it and buy the CDs. Barely break even in cost, but we've always tried to > produce a decent product with a mix of some originals, new arrangements of > standards, and crossover from other genres.
> As for the Grammies, honestly don't care any more, and haven't for a while. > Don't have the time to do the politics needed to reign in enough votes, even > if the material deserved such artistic consideration. We are plain and > simple "weekend warriors", and I'd be naive and a very frustrated individual > if I thought that it didn't take significantly more time and money than I > can devote to produce and market a product with the intent of a Grammy > nomination.
> In summary, it's a hobby, not a full time job, and we have simply tried to > have some fun while producing something along the way that folks seem to > enjoy. That's how I've rationalized producing our CDs. Not sure if this > meets your standards or criteria for an unique, quality effort, but frankly, > we've had fun over the years, produced some decent products, broke even > financially, and have made some polka fans happy while doing so. That's been > reason enough to produce a CD every year from where I sit.
> Bill Palo > A Touch of Chicago > "Canada-Steve" <kingofpol...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message > news:1158773302.320703.270310@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > > Is it really necessary for many Polka bands to release a new CD every > > year? They usually consist of 12 to 14 tracks. One weak attempt at an > > original Waltz (but likely a Lush cover), an equally weak Oberek (or a > > lack-luster rendition of an old classic), and then ten to twelve Polkas > > made up of Country & Western covers; some original sub-par English > > tunes (how many words can possibly rhyme with HEART!); and a few > > retreads thrown in to fill out the deck (is there a band that hasn't > > included "Pennsylvania Hills" on one of their recordings?). > > Why not put out a "Live" album for good measure? Almost every attempt > > since the Dynatones' "Live Wire" has lacked any spontaneity. > > Is there that much money to be made in a CD release? I doubt it. > > Maybe everyone is hoping to get that elusive Grammy Nomination so they > > can take a trip to LA and rub shoulders with the "B" list musicians > > that attend the "Awards given out earlier this evening" ceremony. When > > will the NARAS notice that you can barely differentiate between a 2006 > > nominated recording and a 1996 nominated recording? Isn't anyone in the > > industry just the least bit embarrassed that there have only been 5 > > different winners in 21 award ceremonies? Sturr has won or shared 15 > > times!!!!! > > It's time to rationalize the CD releases and to start putting out some > > unique, quality efforts. Most current efforts are a discredit to the > > Polka industry.
Canada-Steve wrote: > Bill, > Great angle on recording a CD. As they say, "No harm, no foul". If > someone likes the product and no one loses any money, that's great. I > can appreciate your take on camaraderie, having a good time, and Polkas > being a hobby. If that's what it's about, that's great. > I just don't want to hear anyone complaining that the Polka genre is > not being taken "seriously" or questions why it doesn't have a more > mass appeal. For those that don't care about these things, your > rationale is spot on. For those that do care (and I know they're out > there), they need to be more conscientious of the product they put out > and of the quality of their live performances if they want to appeal to > a bigger audience. > Regards, > Steve
Anyway, the lowly ole dj was mentioned in a couple different posts. Hosting my own show on commercial radio locally, one has to remember especially in commercial radio, ratings and sponsors. I pay for my air time (brokered show) by soliciting sponsors. I play for the most part what people want to hear but with a good mix of new mixed in. I try to pick one or two tunes (I'm speaking originals) on any new release and give them a lot of airplay so hopefully they too will become familiar to listeners (gee, maybe even become a standard someday), or at least motivate a listener to go out and buy the CD if they hear the song enough times to be endeared to it. However, if I play too much "uncharted waters" type tunes, listeners get turned off, or should I say I'll get turned off, sponsors won't get the response they look for to keep advertising and consequently ratings go down, I can't pay my airtime bill and that's the end of the show.
I would assume the ratings game would also hold true for college FM station Polka radio shows. Many of them solicit donations from listeners periodically and the more listeners, the more money generated making for happy station managers and the show continues. But I would think they have somewhat more leeway in exploring "new territory" with the new releases.
I think that's where internet radio like Polkajammer, ZMansquest and the like come into play. They don't have to play the ratings game for the most part and they're there 24/7 thus allowing for a multitude of different shows concentrating on different styles to eminate. If you're reading this, you most likely have heard the stations and variety of shows. Unfortunately, only a small segment of the Polka public is internet savvy, so terrestrial radio remains a big player in the Polka game.
Going back a couple paragraphs, I want to bring the one or two tune "HIT" concept per release out to the musicians out there. Would you think picking (suggesting?) say a couple tunes and earmarking them to the DJ in the cover letter to get widespread play on various stations/internet could help the whole theme of this topic? Commercial mainstream stations do that all the time. As a matter of fact, many of the big name radio station conglomerates out there send playlists to their roster of stations.
Maybe one or two cuts per new release, the band can decide which. Would this concept have some merit? It appears sometimes that the Polka world is a little helter skelter, this would have some unifying undertones. Let me know your thoughts.
Polkatively,
Gary Sroka The Saturday Polka Review WTLB Radio - Utica, NY
"...If that's what it's about, that's great....I just don't want to hear anyone complaining that the Polka genre is not being taken "seriously" or questions why it doesn't have a more mass appeal. For those that don't care about these things, your rationale is spot on. For those that do care (and I know they're out there), they need to be more conscientious of the product they put out and of the quality of their live performances if they want to appeal to a bigger audience...."
Steve,
Are you kidding? I'm sorry, but who has annointed you the authority on such topics?
Your opinion, fine. But frankly, that's all it is so quit trying to re-word it to fit everybody's reponses to you. I am out there, and I know the bands try hard to put out good live music and good recordings. It's not AT ALL important to me ( and LOTS of other players ) that polkas do not have more mass appeal or that they be taken "seriously".
Polkas ARE taken seriously by the true polka fans that travel the country following their favorite bands and buying their CD's. They do it for the love of the music pure and simple. It doesn't concern them either that polkas do not have mass appeal, and in MY opinion, there are way to many unqualified people criticizing the bands, the promoters, the venues, the crowds, the dj's, the CD's, the prices.....etc.
Why do you think you got so many responses on this thread? Because most of us are sick of hearing stuff like this. How can you say that bands "need to be more conscientious of the product they put out and of the quality of their live performances if they want to appeal to a bigger audience"...how do you know that they aren't trying to do just that......??
On 22 Sep 2006 13:37:46 -0700, tom.wanderl...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am out there, and I know the bands try hard to put out good live music and good recordings. >It's not AT ALL important to me ( and LOTS of other players ) that polkas do not have more mass appeal or that they be taken "seriously". >Polkas ARE taken seriously by the true polka fans that travel the country following their favorite bands and buying their CD's. They do >it for the love of the music pure and simple.
Tommy, You hit it on the head.
If I had a Wish, What would it be? Yep, you know what it would be and so do others. Those that have "lived" polka music, from the days of playing in garages and parks or under beer tents at lawn fetes and picnics, all know why they were there and why they enjoy polkas for what they are.
Is there anything better than the Dynatones setting up in the middle of Kosciusko St after the "real" Chopins' Dyngus day, or playing Strand Ballroom and watching people dance "up hill," or having two dozen musicians sit in just to play and not for pay?
