Was it bound to happen?: The first polka honoring Pres. Obama
jrodg
in honor of Pres.-elect Obama is out --- and from what better place
than the (Polish-style) polka capital, Chicago? Still, honors to
anybody who can guess who performs the song before reading the
article!
Condolences to Troy G and Mike S who recently declared their
intentions to write "Obama" polkas for not being the first ---but you
can still do it , too, guys---Yes you can! =)
Finally, I have to be grateful to NBC news in Chicago for their
flattering references to our efforts, too : Everybody in polkas loves
attention from the Windy City ^-^ ----"Read all about it by googling
"OBAMA WON, BUT CAN HE POLKA?
the_pol...@hotmail.com
go back to good ol' honky style now that somebody else beat me to the
draw eh? Back to being just another "Troy Six-Pack"
jrodg
The article's name has changed--It can now be googled as NBC/
Presidential Polka or by its new title, "Time for the Presidential
Polka." In NBC's view the first "Obama" polka doesn't "rule" ( You can
form your own opinion by listening to it on the link there.) , so you
can still "come out" with your renditions, Troy and Mike ---either one
could become the "First Song." =)
ericjk...@aol.com
Why would anyone waste time writing a polka about Osama Hussien
Barrack or whatever his name is. I think they mention him in Blazs
"Poor Boy Polka" but I am not positive.
gd500
Complete crap.
jrodg
To the last couple of posts I would just quote Mike S, who said in
a recent post that he hoped that posts on this site would remain
civil . Most intelligent people would agree that NBC news is a leading
news source, not "complete cr--" , and our recent free elections, the
greatest treasure of a free society , have shown that our society
has , by-and-large , overcome and rejected racism , hatred and
bigotry. This site should of course be about polka music and the joy,
humor and light that it spreads , not about vicious attacks---least of
all racially, religiously or ethnically motivated attacks on the
President of the United States----Imperfect though her song may be
(i.a. because she is a European with imperfect English) , the Chicago
"polka queen," Vlasta, caught the attention of the major media because
she did something very unique in writing and performing a polka which
reflects the joy and hope that our democratic process has brought to
millions in this country and around the world. This is a beautiful
thing, most would agree, and it is great that a polka has expressed it
---and in so doing captured media attention. Again, polkas are about
happiness, joy and acceptance: Ii is better to light a candle than to
curse the darkness ---or dwell in it.
Ted Lange
With all due respect, I guess I don't share quite the same vision as you.
Although I think it's great for you that your song has received some
"national attention", I must admit that it's not exactly the kind of
representation of polkas that I personally think benefits the polka world,
and in speaking to numerous musicians, I know I am not alone in this
perspective. Do you really believe that putting this type of video onto the
"national scene" will actually help our struggling industry in any way?
While I realize that it was done in fun, and that was what I presume you
were attempting to do, I cringe at the thought of being asked if I have a
"plunger player" in my band, and if that's what polkas are like, when asked
by someone who is not familiar with polkas. How many times have each of us
been asked "Oh, you play in a polka band? Like John Candy in Home Alone?"
I guess I simply tire of being ridiculed for what I do professionally by
people who are only educated by stereotypes, which in my humble opinion,
your video contributes to.
To reiterate, while I congratulate you on what you have done and what you
have been able to achieve with your video, I personally don't think it helps
elevate the polka world or the view of the polka world..... which may or
may not have even been your intent at all.... it's just what I've been
gathering from your posts, giving the idea that this is a "good thing" for
the polka world....
Again, just my opinion and 2 cents to share..... No disrespect intended....
Regards,
Ted
Voice-O...@comcast.net
Ted,
I completely agree with your perspective. I've done some serious
research on the subject and consulted with account managers from two
world-class marketing agencies based in Chicago concerning the public
perception of polka music. Their views were not surprising. Polka
music is generally stereotyped as a backward, novelty form of music
enjoyed by simple, unsophisticated people. Even though we know this
is not true, the perception persists. The market research folks tell
us that an entity’s actions either weakens or strengthens it brand
(public image). Perhaps we should consider this whenever polkas are
presented to the masses. We should ask ourselves the question: "Is
what I'm doing strengthening the brand (public image) of polkas?"
Whether it gets a laugh, exposure, or even generates revenue is
immaterial. Ultimately, if the answer to the question is "no", I fear
the action is hastening the demise of polka music.
Regards,
VOR
Mike Surratt
>
> Again, just my opinion and 2 cents to share..... �No disrespect intended....
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
Ted, glad you spoke up. There are 2 sides to this and I see your
point. I think even if someone asked where the plunger player was --
at least they would know what a polka was or would have a clue. I'm
amazed that many people that I have met over the years actually don't
know what a polka is?? Now, I do understand why Ted is shaking his
head. I believe we all get the same stupid commentary from time to
time.
1. What no Tuba?
2. Play some GERMAN MUSIC !! My reply: Sure, what's your favorite
German song? The Answer: ROLL OUT THE BARREL
3. I also have gotten the Candy movie comments and Schemgy Brothers
too...and European Vacation crap.
4. We (The Continentals) do some Rock covers as polkas -- that seems
to get the most weird looks from time to time and the most positive
results in the same night. Is it good for polka? -- I guess if some
like it -- yes...
If I get a request for the Palin Polka(s) -- I'll let everyone know on
the board.
Hey -- it was a fluke that has received a LOT of plays on youtube -
was it as bad as the recent America's Got Talent "I created a new
dance genre...looks like you're in a blender" episode -- who knows...
MS
Mike Surratt
> VOR- Hide quoted text -
Great post VOR --
Now, I guess the question I would ask is...
What would be a good (or halfway decent) representation of polka music
to the masses??
I believe that many a person would laugh anyway? I've always felt that
adding the word "Polka" or "Waltz or "Schottische" to the end of a
song title will generate bad criticism right from the get go. Joe and
the Pumblers never had to add the word polka to the title.
No other popular genre does this. "Take The A Train Swing", "On The
Road Again Two Step", "Smoke On The Water Metal" , "Act Naturally
Rock" as examples. But, many non pop music mainstream genres do --
"Blue Tango", "9th Symphony", "Disco Inferno" -- mention Disco and
many turn up their musical noses.
Did the world-class marketing agencies offer any advice?
That would be an interesting post as well...
MS
spa...@msn.com
Here Here well stated Ted, Polkas and Politics DON"T MIX !! This
whole Palin - Obama crap is sicking your heart might be in the right
place but common sense isn't I think it makes a mockery out of
POLKAS !!!! Just my opinion. no ill wishes intended.
Richard Nixon
tom.wan...@gmail.com
I certainly understand the need for some "mainstream" coverage but why
does it always
seem to be backhanded, or some stereotyped, view of polkas? The
general non-polish public
will only see this video for what it appears to be. An attempt to cash
in on the fascination with Sarah
Palin and "meld" it with polkas.
For my money, I see the humor in it, but I don't think the videos will
help any of the bands currently trying
to make legitimate music, and make it more appealing. Again, you
nailed when you said this type of publicity
will not help at all.
Also, no disrespect intended at all, but the "political" polkas seem
more self serving than anything else, kinda
like the SuperBowl polkas or anything else that seems to take
advantage of a hot news topic and gain some
popularity from it. It's all in the way it's presented, and I as well,
did not think this presentation had the entire
genre in mind.
TW
jrodg
Ted ( and all) : Also with all due respect ---and gratitude for the
civilized tone and discussion at this point. I don't want to blow my
horn too much but should respnd to your points (1) Yes, this was done
in a spirit of fun. Fun is , in the eyes of many observers , in and
outside of the polka field, what polkas are , or should be, about. I
do feel that part of the problems with the polka field today is when
it takes itself too seriously and can't take a little joking around.
(2) Re: the view that most of our national attention reinforces a
negative stereotype: The negative stereotype, of course, was already
there: Those who want to see that can find it in our song, or any
polka , for that matter, and , as you know, they do. Actually , if you
google our title, you will find on the major sites that carry it that
most of their headlines and responses, i.e. the headline on the major
political site, salon.com, are positive and say that a nice cheerful
polka helps them to take the tension-filled elections less seriously
and relax: That headline reads :" There's nothing better than polka to
make the serious seem less so." ---If that's not good publicity , FROM
A LEADING NATIONWIDE CULTURAL/POLITICAL SOURCE, for polka music, I
don't know what is. However, reading the lengthy comments on our video
on the salon site, the leading folk/blues music site, mudcat.cafe
( where most of the many writers and musicians say that this number
has made them love and appreciate polkas (their wittiness, social
role, etc. ),the NBC site and youtube itself will show you that the
great majority of polka fans, non-polka fans, non-polka musicians,
high school kids and children (the vital next generation) and even
journalists ( the media ) and political types say that they love it ---
and, as a result, are taking a new, positive look at polkas. Yes, a
few disagree, say that they hate politics, polkas, us, the world, etc.
---but the overwhelming majority in all these sectors are amazingly
supportive. Just read these sites for 5-10 minutes and you'll see
that.
(3) Some of the reasons for the positive impressions from this sector
are that (!) the song is in many ways bi-partisan, as many write ---
and a balancing act such that many don't know who it actually supports
politically. "Political" people see some political subtlety in it--
This is parody, which is much more common and developed in the
European countries (where I grew up), who have long used it (yes, in
polka form, too) to laugh at social problems or question murderous
dictatorships, etc. without being dangerously open about it. It's also
the common approach taken by programs like Saturday Night
Live.Typically, the most extreme bigots and haters feel particularly
threatened by this approach and respond with obscenities, four-letter
words, and occasional threats. that goes with the territory. I respond
to this over-reaction that this is a free country and this kind of
number is actually important for the exercise of the right of free
speech that I,as a veteran (unlike the typical attacker) fought for.
---I think it's great that polka can be part of this free speech.
(4) Re: the bad "plunger" image : First, as some have noted, this
is actually political parody/symbolism for the whole substandard
nature of a political campaign that was trying desperately to
capitalize on a "BS" story of a plumber who somehow was supposed to
save the country, our economy, etc. at the last minute; i.e the total
bankruptcy of a political campaign---The great majority of the
country, folk music specialists and certainly political specialists
( like me : I have two degrees and spent my day-job life in politics
and am now a high school/college teacher) know that this is the
meaning of the "plumber"/plunger shtick and appreciate it precisely
for that reason: They're not attacking or disrespecting polkas for
it : Many of the comments say "brilliant" ---and that's why---and yes,
a couple of others say "crap" , and that's what it looks like where
they're coming from , I suppose---but again, the overwhelming majority
took a great , positive interest in polkas for this
reason. (5) Incidentally, the "fun" image of polkas was
HUGE in their heyday, and polkas were appreciated by many more people
in middle America because of it: Walt Solek waved chickens around,
wore falsies ( may have used a plunger, too, for all I know)---and
"respectable" major polka bands today insist on playing such low-brow
numbers as " They're Always in the Way" ---and many others sing
absolutely obscene lyrics, including the great Lil Wally Jagiello,
RIP, who also used every prop in the book ("not for air play", haha---
apparently there's less of a problem with that...) In the German /
Midwest field, Fritz the Plumber was a huge figure, along with Six Fat
Dutchmen, Moostache Joe and a long list of similar figures. ---There
is a subtext, as Mike S mentions here, of particular disrespect for
tubas and the "German" style in general for also being harmful to the
polka image---To quote Alex Meixner's term, this is largely a "Polish
bias": Excessive fear of programs, bands and even big hits that might
present polkas as "uneducated" or unsophisticated, as you put it,
leads quite a few also to attack the nation's biggest nationwide polka
TV and festival promoter, Big Joe and his programming, as being "too
oompah" ( the attack is on the German and Czech styles here), too
corny, etc. The main problem here, I submit, is that even well-meaning
creative polka artists , fearful of polkas' status or wishing to
somehow build polka music up as a sophisticated popular genre to
Middle America, as opposed to a largely ethnic niche market ( which I
personally think is probably not in the cards) often lose their sense
of fun and, while wishing intensely for mainstream success, cringe and
reject most positive attention that polkas are actually getting on the
national level ( whether it be from Vlasta, us, Big Lou, NBC , Fox
News , young people ---whatever !?!) for fear that this is not the
( still rather ill-defined, although I guess the best definition of
this objective was formulated by S. Kaminski/Extreme Push a few years
ago) modern, sophisticated, cool 21st century polka image they would
like to project. To all of this I would say ( respectfully again:
I happen to love your music personally,Ted) that people with this view
should loosen up and be more accepting and happy for polkas' positive
acceptance at any level because IT'S ALL GOOD : The best thing about
polkas is that they stand for joy, happiness, being carefree,
accepting , living with or forgetting problems , or better yet,
laughing about them, to happy music.
I firmly believe that VIRTUALLY ALL POSITIVE MEDIA EXPOSURE is good
for polkas ---and personally I will always support and congratulate
ANYONE in the polka field who achieves media coverage on the national
or international level , or among our youth, or among rock, folk
musicians, etc., etc. because, as you probably realize, this is not
easy to do, especially by clinging to strictly conventional stylings,
costumes and attitudes ---I do think it is important to "go for" this
kind of coverage --- and, if we put our heads together, we can achieve
it ---but in different ways perhaps than you may have thought , or may
be attempting. I've made, and hopefully learned from, some mistakes in
this quest --- I think we all do--by objecting originally to PAC's
initiatives or to the goal of Stephen Kaminski's (X-Push plans) --- I
may still not be in line with his particular strategy, but the
statement of his goal really got me to thinking and I've done my best
to achieve something with it.
People can criticize each other civilly and productively ---That's
fine. I said once before ---maybe in too many words, but I'd better
repeat it now since the issue has been raised very seriously here ---
that I hoped that this instance of significant media coverage might
contribute to thought and discussion about how to achieve it in a
positive way. What we did recently was in part a lark, a spoof
( justifiable and appreciated by many as such) but also a trial
balloon , in a way: I just "knew" when that "silly" number popped into
my head that it would go to some places most more serious ,
conventional polkas wouldn't ---That's the same feeling I had with
"Knock, Knock on the Bedroom Door" years ago --but with something
more :the political angle. Silly big hits are wonderful in their own
right ---and shouldn't be feared just because: "OMG" it -doesn't -
suit- the- paradigm -of what- somehow- we think -a -mainstream -polka -
success- should- be- (although we don't really know what that is
anyway---but if we did we'd do it ") ---The song was right for its
time,like the media appreciatively said ---and it's good that it was a
polka. I think it's safe to say that all musical successes are good,
especially where they go places (i.e. on the internet and in society )
and turn on audiences that polka hasn't reached before. Tomorrow,
next week, or next year, hopefully , it'll be something different ---
and maybe much more to your liking ---by you , or the immensely
talented Mike S, who I'm convinced writes much better songs than I
ever did---or whoever: And if it goes to any new places ---and is
praised by new blogs , news sources, or whatever, I'll be thrilled for
whoever writes and plays it, whether I personally like the song or
not, I promise---and I think we all should,-----It's funny : That song
(and the characters portrayed in it ) aren't even really us , overall:
We are a bunch of school teachers (and one technician) by day---and on
weekends we play polka/German music . For most of my life I've been a
serious songwriter in Polish ( a dying art in the polka field) and
English for a lot of bands--I love the beautiful, traditional songs,
love to play them , to give them to any good band that wants them ,
and to keep them alive. But I have learned, again and again, that
these songs alone don't turn on the greater American ( or world )
public , but that this can be done, at least, by being topical (be
there with some issues that matter) , funny (one of polka's greatest
strengths if it's used right) and "folksy" ( =dress like the people on
occasions, like most rock, country and folk musicians do ---and polka
bands generally don't.) ------- and if you can do these things I think
you should . By the same token , if mainstream/national attention can
be achieved in different ways I'd love to learn of these , too,and
will cheer on anyone who achieves it. It's all a learning process .
Sorry for the lengthiness, but I feel I had a lot of explaining to
do---I am grateful, again, for the serious , civil discussion ( and
for anyone whom any of this causes to feel hatred, jealousy, fury, or
whatever: I hope you can let it go ---for your sake , too: I've felt
some of those things occasionally---I guess most of us have ---and
they end up hurting not only others, but ourselves, too , too much in
the long run.)
jrodg
>
> - Show quoted text -
RE your thought Tom , that we are trying to "cash in" or profit
from such a presentation I must respond that , unlike virtually all
polka musicians I know, we did it for free, with absolutely no thought
of monetary gain, copyrights, marketing, etc. whatsoever. As for the
idea that it is somehow wrong to write or perform polkas, or any
songs, for that matter , on topical or political issues, there is a
long tradition in the world at large of writing poitical parody songs
---These are generally viewed as being a healthy relief valve for
society---which is jsut what many bloggers said about our number ---
while none whatsoever, to my knowledge, mentioned one word implying
disrespect of Polish people culture, etc. ---In fact the whole image
of our video is clearly not Polish at all ---It has , if anything a
German sort of flavor ---and in the German field, unlike the
apparently extremely image-conscious "Polish" polka field at this
point this is not causing such disapproval: We play in the German/
polka field , where many parodies and spoofs can be viewed on line
( the most recent of many hundreds of these was just posted by Big
Lou) ---The German field is, I'm afraid , more secure about its image
and future than some in the "Polish" field clearly are. For my part I
can just repeat again that if you read all the publicity and reactions
that these videos have generated you will see that the overwhelming
majority were extremely approving ---and none of them said a word
about the Polish image in general ( It's not Polish!!) ---Instead,
most felt that a happy ( obviously German-appearing) polka parody was
a wonderful thing for them, the country and the world at an otherwise
tense time.
As for my intentions toward the polka field , as you put it, the
only thing I know is that I practice and play my heart out (like many
do) every week promoting polkas and also spend much of my free time
writing songs (in Polish and English) and GIVING THEM away to any well-
meaning, decent musician who feels like playing something different
and new, as I've done for many major bands for decades. I don't even
want or take money from the ""Polish polka field "", doggone it, as
Sarah would say. If that's not good enough for you guys , I'm sorry---
I had to make my piece with the more contentious segment of the
"Polish" polka field years ago---and with those of other persuasions
than mine in general---and it works pretty well for me like this: I
play my gigs and they play theirs. I promote polka music the best way
I know how ---and presumibly you do , too: But I promise you this: If
you , or anyone else in the polka field (Polish , German, Irish,
whatever) ever gets a hit inside or out of the polka field (or both) ,
whether I like it or not, I won't go to great lengths trying to prove
that in some way it is disrespectful of Poland, opportunistic like a
beer commercial, unfairly profit-oriented, or (to quote one delightful
writer above) ""complete crap." ---I'll learn from this experience and
do my best to be gracious and congratulate you on your achievement. =)
Ted Lange
Ted ( and all) : Also with all due respect ---and gratitude for the
civilized tone and discussion at this point. I don't want to blow my horn
too much but should respnd to your points (1) Yes, this was done
in a spirit of fun. Fun is , in the eyes of many observers , in and outside
of the polka field, what polkas are , or should be, about. I do feel that
part of the problems with the polka field today is when
it takes itself too seriously and can't take a little joking around.
**** Again, I can understand where you're coming from, but I disagree
wholeheartedly.... I do take the polka field and what I do in it very
seriously... And it's my opinion that if more people took it more
seriously, the state of polka music as a whole may be in a different place.
It's fine to "just have fun with it", but excuse me for disagreeing with
something that displays the genre I work for and love in what I personally
would consider a "less than positive light", by reinforcing the negative
stereotype that surrounds polkas on a "national stage". Joking around is
fine.... However, proclaiming that you've created an interest and new
following in polka music because of your video is "taking it a little too
seriously", in my humble opinion.
(2) Re: the view that most of our national attention reinforces a negative
stereotype: The negative stereotype, of course, was already there: Those who
want to see that can find it in our song, or any
polka , for that matter, and , as you know, they do. Actually , if you
google our title, you will find on the major sites that carry it that most
of their headlines and responses, i.e. the headline on the major
political site, salon.com, are positive and say that a nice cheerful polka
helps them to take the tension-filled elections less seriously and relax:
That headline reads :" There's nothing better than polka to
make the serious seem less so." ---If that's not good publicity , FROM A
LEADING NATIONWIDE CULTURAL/POLITICAL SOURCE, for polka music, I don't know
what is. However, reading the lengthy comments on our video on the salon
site, the leading folk/blues music site, mudcat.cafe ( where most of the
many writers and musicians say that this number has made them love and
appreciate polkas (their wittiness, social role, etc. ),the NBC site and
youtube itself will show you that the great majority of polka fans,
non-polka fans, non-polka musicians, high school kids and children (the
vital next generation) and even journalists ( the media ) and political
types say that they love it --- and, as a result, are taking a new, positive
look at polkas. Yes, a few disagree, say that they hate politics, polkas,
us, the world, etc. ---but the overwhelming majority in all these sectors
are amazingly supportive. Just read these sites for 5-10 minutes and you'll
see that.
****** While it's wonderful that you can cite all these different
demographics that say they "love" what you did, will this "put butts in
seats" anywhere? Will any of these people actually support a dance or
festival? Or have you simply fulfilled the stereotype that they already
have in their head...... again that polkas are just something to be made
fun of? That the industry is simply laughable with no substance? Nothing
more than a joke???.... nothing more than the already too popular
stereotype?????? The point of my post was not intended to belittle what
you personally have done in any way... My point is simply that I disagree
with the perspective that you have actually done something POSITIVE FOR
POLKAS. That's all... nothing more and nothing less. I'm simply saying
that it's my opinion that this does nothing positive for the polka music
industry.
(3) Some of the reasons for the positive impressions from this sector are
that (!) the song is in many ways bi-partisan, as many write --- and a
balancing act such that many don't know who it actually supports
politically. "Political" people see some political subtlety in it-- This is
parody, which is much more common and developed in the European countries
(where I grew up), who have long used it (yes, in polka form, too) to laugh
at social problems or question murderous dictatorships, etc. without being
dangerously open about it. It's also the common approach taken by programs
like Saturday Night
Live.Typically, the most extreme bigots and haters feel particularly
threatened by this approach and respond with obscenities, four-letter words,
and occasional threats. that goes with the territory. I respond
to this over-reaction that this is a free country and this kind of number is
actually important for the exercise of the right of free speech that I,as a
veteran (unlike the typical attacker) fought for.
---I think it's great that polka can be part of this free speech.
**************** You're competely missing the point. This has nothing to
do with who you voted for, what you believe in politically, etc.... that's
all irrelevant..... completely not the point I was trying to make. I don't
need a definition of "parody" or "political" or a speech telling me about
"free speech".... that has NOTHING to do with my point.
(4) Re: the bad "plunger" image : First, as some have noted, this is
actually political parody/symbolism for the whole substandard nature of a
political campaign that was trying desperately to capitalize on a "BS" story
of a plumber who somehow was supposed to save the country, our economy, etc.
at the last minute; i.e the total bankruptcy of a political campaign---The
great majority of the country, folk music specialists and certainly
political specialists ( like me : I have two degrees and spent my day-job
life in politics and am now a high school/college teacher) know that this is
the meaning of the plumber/plunger shtick and appreciate it precisely for
that reason: They're not attacking or disrespecting polkas for it : Many of
the comments say "brilliant" ---and that's why---and yes, a couple of others
say "crap" , and that's what it looks like where they're coming from , I
suppose---but again, the overwhelming majority took a great , positive
interest in polkas for this reason.
**************** Again, you're missing the point. When you have "hoards of
these followers" that actually show up to a dance or festival, join a polka
related organization, buy polka recordings, etc...... then you can preach to
me about how "the overwhelming majority took a great positive interest in
polkas". Let's face it... they got a chuckle from it... and THAT'S
ALL.... and I doubt they had a further thought about it. My point? I dont
think you've changed the face of polka music or the following that
participates in polka music with your video. Again, please prove me wrong
with the crowds that you have supposedly converted. I will be the first in
line to admit that I was wrong when you are able to do that.
the- paradigm -of what- somehow- we think -a - mainstream -polka - success-
*********zzzzzzzzzz SNORT... sorry I dozed off.... ;-) That's a lot
more explanation than I think was necessary or warranted. You are correct
on one item: "VIRTUALLY ALL POSITIVE MEDIA EXPOSURE IS GOOD FOR
POLKAS"..... The key word in that sentence though is "POSITIVE".... and
that's where I respectfully disagree with your opinion of what you think
your video has done. Additionally, maybe I'm a bit "on edge" due to the
lack of respect this genre of music gets as a whole.... and I simply wish
something "positive and professional" could be marketed to the masses. When
was the last time something truly positive happened for polkas on the
national scene? Lynn Marie on Leno? That's the only instance I can come up
with.... and let's face it... that had as big of a long term impact as a
speck of salt in the ocean.... it was nice to have something positive for
change, but even that's not enough to change the way things are..... At the
same time, I can instantly come up with close to a half dozen things that
have had a really negative connotation to polka music or completely fit the
negative stereotypes in the national media..... And although I can respect
what you have done, I disagree with your opinion of what your video has done
and would have to list your video on the latter list.... again, just MY
OPINION..... However, maybe things could change with some positive
reinforcement in the media.... and not just once, but a lot more than one
little blip on Leno.....
Again, no personal disrespect intended..... Just giving you my side of the
story....
Ted
jrodg
creative freedom and much, much more . I am clueless about why you
persist in saying there is no positive value generated by any of this
media acceptance despite the obvious fact that 90+% of it is
extremely positive . Incidentally, your view is not shared by many
polka leaders ( from several of the biggest bands ), who have called
or emailed me privately to praise it. More than one also warned me of
some grumbling and told me I should be ready to get "ganged up on" by
some on the site in a more or less coordinated effort" ---so I sort of
saw this coming. It's also amusing to me, in a sad sort of way, that
this attack came in response to a post and interesting discussion of
the first-ever Obama video, which everyone (except for one rabidly
bigoted guy that it brought out of the woodwork) chose to completely
ignore ---Nice that most people had the decency not to go after the
poor "Polka Queen" lady, incidentally , for her "opportunistic
political polka" ---evidently it was the NBC correspondents' reference
to our songs as being their favorites that drove some people over the
brink. --- Your main complaint, I think, among many others, is that in
creating a polka hit we were not being supportive of the polka field
as a whole ( haha--better to laugh than cry : In recent years I have
lavished sincere praise , on this site and off, on the bands and work
of all three of the last posters ( one way I have of supporting any
polka artist whose work I like) , while , with one exception, they
never did the same but are quick to attack with every weapon at hand
but the kitchen sink (or should I say the plumber) any success we may
have . And the list of rationalizations is endless: Now I am being
faulted for not drawing big enough crowds for you guys or whatever
(!?) Well, I was warned (and thanks for the warning, guys--you know
who you are ) to watch my back . Despite anything anyone may say to
rain on our parade (and I see now that endless angles can be thought
up if you try) ,I am happy and grateful for the significant ïnternet
and "societal" response:Of course anyone would be---and an honest
person would , I think, even admit that he'd give his cojones for
similar reactions,instead of trying to tear it apart in a thousand
different ways. To those who don't like it ---hey, continue to do your
own thing: Again I was often enthusiastic in my praise of you---and I
would never spend time and effort trying to think of ways in which
your "hits," if any,might be counterproductive , not draw big enough
crowds, be made in too calculated or profiteering a fashion, etc. It's
easy to attack and find fault once you get going ---creating happiness
( and even making hits if possible , and reaching out to the world in
whatever way we can) is what we should be about , not this type of
negative activity. Years ago I realized that our local Polish scene
was (a) dying and (b) too fraught with jealousy , back-biting ,
favoritism and backstabbing to be productive, so I left the sinking
ship for a related polka genre, German, which, fortunately, is largely
free of those defects here . This discussion gave me a brief flashback
to that unhappier time (with even some of the original cast included)
and reminded me how lucky I am not to be dependent upon that scene,
and all it's carping with themes like"Oh you seem popular but you're
not , really---it's a false popularity---You don't play as well as us
or sing as well as us --Your songs really suck but somehow you fool
the people in to not realizing it!": I'm so happy to have, for the
most part, left that behind 15 years ago by going into the much more
accepting German field..---So, in parting, I will continue my efforts
to make the best music I can, which , I hope , will continue to be
fun, in large part traditional, but occasionally topical , political ,
off-the-wall, whatever. Of course some of you guys can, and clearly
will, disapprove. But, fortunately, it's a free country , with freedom
of speech, songwriting, etc. and no ultimate judge with the power to
declare that other bands should not make hits unless they approve
them, or else should suffer the consequences ---that's really a
bizarre new excursion into totalitarian mind control if I've ever
heard of one. With your best interests at heart , really, I now
propose that you guys show us how this really should be done: Make the
"right" kind of polka hits to wow the blogs, young people and the
Internet, get those big crowds and do it RIGHT ----projecting that
really "correct," positive polka image ---and show us how it s h o u
l d be done : We're all ready to learn --including, I assure you, all
the many musicians, djs and fans who offered us their support but are
now staying out of this discussion because they hate the online gang-
up pressure tactics of a few : No, it's no fun ---but when this
almost caused me to bail out early I remembered that many years ago,
in the army, I risked my life for my country ---and for free speech
and human rights --- and so , even though I am much older now, I
shouldn't give in such pressure today. It is our God-given right to
make funny, political songs or any other darn polka we want----and
YES, to call it a polka if we want to, too , even though some of you
even disapprove of that !?! . If you come out with a good or
successful number, I will praise it--I always have. If you can't do
that, I'll just have to live with it, and so will you. ...and if you
can't, by any chance , despite any claims to brilliance, etc., achieve
a degree of success acceptable to you---and your crowds continue to
die on you, as you mention--- it's really not right to blame it on me,
directly or indirectly , as is happening here.I cannot help but notice
that, by your repeated statement , you are constantly
preoccupied---"on edge", as you put it , about "the lack of respect
this (or your) music gets as a whole"---These are your words,and this
is your concern---Instead of the more bitter ending I originally
wrote. I will try to understand this concern ---yes, and I do in a
way---but all I can say about that now in the context of our exchange
tonite, from my heart, is that every week, as I said, I look forward
to playing my heart out to happy people of all ages at our gigs and I
am endlessly happy and grateful that this is possible for us---unlike
my friends ( and also non-friends ) in the local "Polish polka
scene" , who are constantly on edge and worse because their clubs and
dances are failing, no one under 79 attends most events, etc---and
they feel disrespected . ---That is truly sad and I wish I could help
with it ---I even try in my way---but maybe i can't : We all make our
beds and we lie in them---If need be, we may try changing the mattress
or covers, of course ---but blaming me for making a happy,"hit" German
or American style video, which you guys are really doing , is very
unfair ---All of which leads me back,again and again, to that old
saying: It's better to try to light a candle than to curse the
darkness. I really do wish you well, and promise again solemnly, as I
did before , that if and when you achieve that much sought-after
greater success and respect, I will congratulate you and be happy for
you---and not seek to undermine or denigrate it in any way....and I
really hope that you will somehow be able to overcome or "shake" that
constant feeling of being "on edge" and disrespected that by your own
admission plagues you: I know that you are a wonderful musician ---
every song or video clip of your group I see confirms that for me---so
I hope that you will find a way to be happy with the scene you have,
despite the problems, and if possible , even to make it better through
greater achievements that are more to your taste than our little
numbers: Of course this would all help to make the world a better
place. Whatever happens , though, life is short, and we should all try
to do the best we can--to give it our "best shot" musically and in
general ---and if possible, learn to accept and support each other
rather than tear each other down. I'm still learning this,
comparatively late in life --I think some of you guys are younger than
me and hope that you can make use of this truth longer than I have.
Joe R
Mike Surratt
Sunday newspaper...
Ted, Joe and everyone else...one polka on youtube (and other sites) is
not gonna change anything... and...one song will not advance the genre/
dance crowd/CD sales as a whole unless it's played on MTV...and even
that is not a given.
The polka world is still severely fragmented and I applaud efforts/
achievements within all styles.
Once again - I would ask -- what is a polka artist to do? Damn if you
do and damn if you don't.
I personally don't like all aspects of the industry...but, I have to
respect effort put in to create something new...shouldn't we all???
Just my 1 cent (stocks are down)..
MS --
PS - when someone comes up with the perfect plan -- I will modify/
comform to the doctrine if it is the absolute positive new path to
save polkas. To start the trend -- can we all swear to stop playing
the chicken dance and bequeath it to another music genre or
something???
manchesterc...@gmail.com
The point is, Joe and his group, got a ton of positive coverage on the
internet, even leading up to the website of www.nbcchicago.com
Most of the coverage were on political websites..and most of them
loved the song..and even said to keep this song in the archives for
2012...Who knows, Joe & The Plumbers maybe playing this for her run in
the next election!!!
Johnny Prytko Jr.
Ted Lange
personally "hate" what you did... I congratulate you on the production and
distribution of your video.... However, I was getting the impression from
your follow up posts that you honestly believe that it did something
POSITIVE FOR THE POLKA INDUSTRY, and that's where we disagree. Believe it
or not, I'm not trying to "cut you down" or "put you down".... I'm simply
voicing my opinion that I think you're off base if you think this was a tool
that will further the polka industry.... and THAT'S ALL.....
Ted
"jrodg" <jro...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:436a89d4-4f3b-4825...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
jrodg
> You are most assuredly still missing my point.... I'm not saying I
> personally "hate" what you did... I congratulate you on the production and
> distribution of your video.... However, I was getting the impression from
> your follow up posts that you honestly believe that it did something
> POSITIVE FOR THE POLKA INDUSTRY, and that's where we disagree. Believe it
> or not, I'm not trying to "cut you down" or "put you down".... I'm simply
> voicing my opinion that I think you're off base if you think this was a tool
> that will further the polka industry.... and THAT'S ALL.....
>
> Ted
>
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks,Mike andJohnny, for covering my back after all those
attacks, which ranged of course from insanely racist diatribes to more
belabored, subtle "put downs," incorporating every spurious argument a
determined detractor could possibly devise. My back is of course still
aching from all the daggers shoved in it, but this is sadly often the
price of any success achieved in some segments (particularly the
""Polish branch of the polka field. That's not news to me ----and I
know it's not to you, either.
There's so much I could say to refute the racist craziness, the
"market research" nonsense ( world class research , we are informed,
reveals that polka music is considered substandard by the general
public ---LOL :We all knew that already ---as MS says, do his world
class market research consultants say what might be done about this.?
-) --Then, appropriately enough, there's the over-the-top attacker ,
who identifies himself as Richard Nixon: Ok, that's appropriate, I
guess: Since Mr. Nixon is really the source of most political evil of
the last century, having spawned Rove, Cheney and all the rest, it's a
pleasure and an honor to have been attacked by him, as well...and
fighting him off, I submit, constitutes a service to freedom ,
motherhood and the American way.
Thank God the "slurring the Polish image" characters have backed
off ( for the moment at least) . This charge was particularly
ludicrous, I have to have pointed out, since our presentation was not
viewed by the "Internet" and media as Polish, at all: Many declared it
to be "Midwestern polka style," which of course is largely German/
Czech flavored , Cleveland style ( Let's Polka) or even American roots
music (Mudcat) because of the use of the banjo. In any case, just
imagine for a moment what those who say it damages the Polish image
might say about Walt Solek's "Who Stole the Kiszka", "They're Always
in the Way," or so many more if he had put them on youtube
today....and Howabout Lil Wally's ---and Scrubby's,etc.---beloved
renditions of "Drink your troubles away, tomorrow's another day" ---
OMG, it depicts Polish people as drunks.!"--And then there's the Ray
Henry classic "Politics Polka" ---These guys were the classics, the
GODS of Polish style polkas ---but doubtless in this situation a
couple of wannabes would have torn into them, too. The greatest honor
of my life in polka , I often recall, was having been able to go on
the road with Lil Wally, my no. 1 polka idol, for about a year when I
was young--and I even got to contribute a popular song to one of his
albums ( I won't name it here because no doubt some of the "boys" will
then start a thread attacking that , too...) ---Anyway, Wally told
me---and no doubt others to whom he spoke will recall this , too--He
liked to spread his wisdom around: " Always remember, if you do
something special---get a big hit---they'll come after you : That's
the way some of these people are---not the big stars, the jealous
second-raters: They'll try to tear you down --- with every trick in
the book. That's just the way they are: But they can't touch me--I
just do my thing: Ja nie potrzebuje takich ludzi." ( I know most of
you "proud" Polish performers , so concerned for the Polish image
(haha) have never even bothered to learn Polish and can't understand
this so you might get somebody to translate it for you------and you
know what?---I can prove every word of this because Wally didn't just
say this often HE WROTE IT to me in a letter congratulating us on our
Maurice album's success : I still have it in my scrapbook and will
send anybody interested a copy to prove it: Cool that it comes in
handy in this situation: Thanks for covering my back from heaven , Lil
Wladziu.
Finally, the last ,and most serious argument "against us" that
remains is from Ted Lange, who, I acknowledge is, among our various
detractors, the one who tries hardest to be sincere and objective ---
and admits that much of his problem with this somehow relates to
problems and insecurities that he and the Polish field in general are
having with "filling their seats": Ted insists , in his "last word"
that, although he congratulates us for (some kind of) achievement , I
am wrong to say or feel that this can help the field in any way
because kind words from the internet, journalists, etc. are not enough
(or words to that effect). Of course it is hard to quantify any of
this precisely ( "world class marketing experts" , haha,
notwithstanding ) , but what I have to repond to this, Ted and
friends, is just pure common sense: If thousands of people across the
Internet major blogs, NBC journalists, numerous young people, etc.,
etc. ( you can read it ---it's all there) say the polka is great,
brilliant, cool, good, their favorite , the right song for our times,
etc. ---all these terms were used, over and over ( sorry if it bothers
some of you competitive guys) --------- even a blind man should
recognize that in some general way this is a good thing for polka
music and its image and status: Giving a good, great , topical ( that
means modern, up to date,really) and even cool impression of polka
music to thousands can only help --- even tho it may not "put butts in
your seats", as you so quaintly put it ---it definitely would put a
few more in ours (except that unfortunately , as people here know, we
cannever fit any more on Sat. nites---it's always sold out---what can
you do--just a "sad" fact) ---------Yes, a huge amount remains to be
done: The point is ( you like talking about missing the point so I
hope this is clear) : Any and every effort that gets THOUSANDS of
positive reactions and significant media approval OF COURSE HAS TO BE
HELPFUL overall ---and the more such achievements there are , the
better it will be ---so in conclusionI would urge ( just straight
talk, no more sour grapes , no more phony "world class market
research!")anypolka artists inthis discusion who are sincerely
interested in improving polkas' image ( as opposed to just bashing
somebody else who's tried to do something about it and achieved a
little something) to (---to use your language, Ted -:) ) to get their
butts out of their seats and write , youtube, or promote a good song
or two themselves that mainstream Americans might find, funny,
newsworthy, cool -----or of any interest whatsoever----because IT''S
ALL GOOD ---and nothing ventured, nothing gained.
TwoFourTimer
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T H E E N D.
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tom.wan...@gmail.com
> and future than some in the "Polish" field clearly are. For my part I
> can just repeat again that if you read all the publicity and reactions
> that these videos have generated you will see that the overwhelming
> majority were extremely approving ---and none of them said a word
> about the Polish image in general ( It's not Polish!!) ---Instead,
> most felt that a happy ( obviously German-appearing) polka parody was
> a wonderful thing for them, the country and the world at an otherwise
> tense time.
And I'll also bet the majority of the posters are not polka musicians
who are
sick and tired of the music being portrayed this way, parody or not.
> As for my intentions toward the polka field , as you put it, the
> only thing I know is that I practice and play my heart out (like many
> do) every week promoting polkas and also spend much of my free time
> writing songs (in Polish and English) and GIVING THEM away to any well-
> meaning, decent musician who feels like playing something different
> and new, as I've done for many major bands for decades. I don't even
> want or take money from the ""Polish polka field "", doggone it, as
> Sarah would say. If that's not good enough for you guys , I'm sorry---
> I had to make my piece with the more contentious segment of the
> "Polish" polka field years ago---and with those of other persuasions
> than mine in general---and it works pretty well for me like this: I
> play my gigs and they play theirs. I promote polka music the best way
> I know how ---and presumibly you do , too: But I promise you this: If
> you , or anyone else in the polka field (Polish , German, Irish,
> whatever) ever gets a hit inside or out of the polka field (or both) ,
> whether I like it or not, I won't go to great lengths trying to prove
> that in some way it is disrespectful of Poland, opportunistic like a
> beer commercial, unfairly profit-oriented, or (to quote one delightful
> writer above) ""complete crap."
You said it. I do what I do and you do what you do. Like Ted said. We
disagree and thats totally fine. But I don't need to be called
contentious. It
seems you are going to great lengths to defend your opinion. Isn't
that pretty
contentious?
I want to see new people turned on to polkas for NEW REASONS, not the
same dragged out, 50 year old stereotpyes, and I'm contentious for
that?
I'd much rather have someone tell me they love a polka because the
lyric
hit home with their life, not because they found it amusing, or
politcally chic.
And to say that the German field is more secure in their image, I
submit that
because Ted and I ARE Polish/German, you've got two sources IN the
field
that disagree with you.
Please add us to your list who found your efforts funny, but
nothing new in regards to goundbreaking publicity, and in my opinion
plastered that worn out stereotype on the net for all to
see.....again.
All I ( we ) said is that our opinion is different than yours. That's
all.
AMUN
I was afraid of this when obama was first nominated that, sooner or later
people would start playing the "racism card".
Even if he lost.
Not that it would have made much difference if Hillary was there, then
people would be "sexists"
I think all politicians are crooks or worse,....equally.
And that went for Obama too. But now I can only hate all other politicians
even if Obama ends up making Bush look like a genius.
4 more years of this huh ?
Guess I better get out today and stock up on "kid gloves".
Or hope that this group starts dealing with Polkas again and keep Washington
out of it
"jrodg" <jro...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:e9b922ad-4b7a-4b38...@n4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
TwoFourTimer
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O V E R - N - O U T
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jrodg
Sounds good to me: The German saying for this kind of situation is
"Die Hunde bellen und die Karawane zieht weiter" ( translation : The
dogs bark but the caravan rolls on---meaning "Say what you will--
we''ll keep doing our thing." )
In the American/pop field the best summation of this issue
( others having problems with your musical production and telling the
world so , which I would label "Obsessive-Need-To-Bash-Somebody-Else's-
Music Syndrome") was given by Ricky Nelson in his immortal song
"Garden Party" , where he makes peace with the problem by concluding:
"It's all right now ---I've learned my lesson well: You can't please
everyone ---so you have to please yourself."
jrodg
>
> - Show quoted text -
You and others are contentious ( a rather mild word for seeking
controversy ) for conducting an extensive campaign of faultfinding
with someone else's one or two little popular numbers ---and you
certainly cannot deny doing that ---The evidence is all neatly laid
out above, your honor---Not to speak of the various accusations that
my little fun number is bad for the Polish image ( which it doesn't
really relate to at all, as I explained) , destructive for polka music
(despite the overwhelming praise of polkas, etc. that it brought
about) --- "old" and not new and creative , as you see yourself to
be , and the list goes on and on. Actually I don't recall anyone every
having been put through so much by so few for doing so little ( to
paraphrase Lincoln) ---and now finally you ask "why I seem so
defensive?" ( L O L ) --- That's just the normal reaction you'd expect
from someone who is attacked with every possible pretext --- I did do
my best to keep civil in my responses---This was a great opportunity
for trying to exercise self control and discipline : But , from the
bottom of my heart , I hope nobody here is every put through this
treatment for recording an innocent, fun song or video --- Most
readers know in their hearts, I'm sure, that they wouldn't enjoy the
experience. ---And now, as I said to your "comrade in arms"above :
Rather than wasting more of your time and creative energy taking issue
with my work, please do show of some of your fine, "new" , less
sterotyped creativity---May it go far , as it no doubt merits, and
achieve the positive recognition that it deserves and polkas need:
And, as I said, if and when this happens ---and if you guys have one
half of the talent, taste and drive you're giving yourselves credit
for, then no doubt this will happen soon --- I promise to be fair and
supportive and applaud it just as I have praised the work of many of
you and you associates in the past---so there''ll be no need for you
to be "defensive" with me. Peace.
S.L.
Being a traditionalist, I adhere to my ways.
But then, I'm who I am anyway..<G>
SJL
S.L.
politicians are crooks, just some to more of a degree than others, and
you have to choose one you think will be the crook that helps your
cause.
S
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:54:41 -0500, "AMUN" <anti...@sparmmstop.net>
wrote:
tom.wan...@gmail.com
And I'll stand on the 2007 USPA song of the year. Thanks for
listening.
TW
> to be "defensive" with me. Peace.- Hide quoted text -
jrodg
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tom, I didn't start all this attacking ---as you yourself
indicated , I've just been on the defensive against the lengthiest
series of "criticisms" one can imagine, jsut for making a video that
the media,etc. found to be nice, fun and a "great comment in polka
form on the political season." In response to your latest dig
( approximately number 15 by my count ) , I'll just say that I don't
drink coffee at all, nor do I drink liquor ---trying to do my bit to
"improve the polka/Polish/German image you profess to be so concerned
about: One of the public's biggest negative perceptions about this
image of course is of excessive drinking and pushing liquor ---so
everybody does what they can....and at this point I'll just say that
I'll do my best to turn the other cheek ( not easy sometimes but it's
the Christian way and I guess thisis a good opportunity to work on
it ) try to ignore your constant attempts to say negative things
about me, and not respond in kind. It's a beautiful day ---although
darned cold--What's say we go out and enjoy our polka music and do
more positive things.
Best, Joe R
PS---As is pretty well known, I am one of the greatest admirers of
John Góra and his creativity. I was thrilled to hear that he ( unlike
you clearly ) loved our song and wanted to play it ---but also
saddened to learn from him that one or more of his associates resented
this and was going to pursue me in this way. Of course it is great for
you that you can back up this great man and be associated with the
success he so richly deserves --and your accompaniment no doubt helps
to make his group what it is . Again, let's try to end this on a
positive note: I have no idea about your drinking habits , whether
coffee , beer or schnaps ---and don't want to know ---Let's just try
to make a better world through music, the best way we know how, and
stop tearing each other down----T
jrodg
> the media,etc. found to be nice, fun and a "great comment in polka
> form on the political season." In response to your latest dig
> ( approximately number 15 by my count ) , I'll just say that I don't
> drink coffee at all, nor do I drink liquor ---trying to do my bit to
> "improve the polka/Polish/German image you profess to be so concerned
> about: One of the public's biggest negative perceptions about this
> image of course is of excessive drinking and pushing liquor ---so
> everybody does what they can....and at this point I'll just say that
> I'll do my best to turn the other cheek ( not easy sometimes but it's
> it ) and try to ignore your attempts to say negative things
> about me, and not respond in kind. It's a beautiful day ---although
> more positive things.
> Best, Joe R
> John Góra and his creativity. I was thrilled to hear that he ( unlike
> saddened to learn from him that one or more of his associates resented
> this and was going to pursue me in this way. Of course it is great for
> you that you can back up this great man and be associated with the
> success he so richly deserves --and your accompaniment no doubt helps
> to make his group what it is . Again, let's try to end this on a
> positive note: I have no idea about your drinking habits , whether
> coffee , beer or schnaps ---and don't want to know ---Let's just try
> to make a better world through music, the best way we know how, and
>
> - Show quoted text -
I meant to end the sentence by saying: This is a terrible downward
spire , and I doubt if it's helping anybody. Peace?
TwoFourTimer
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