the state of this newsgroup
Gavin A. McCollam
Good questions, all.
I will address one.
The best Paul Simon album is......Graceland. The rest of them all tie
for a close second. Graceland offered something that had never been done
-- collaberation (sp?) with such a diverse variety of musicians
(Ladysmith, Linda R., Los Lobos, etc.), and it did so without sounding
like a mish-mash.
One question you asked that I WISH I could answer is the one about
whether or not he is better in concert. When one lives out in the middle
of nowhere, one must be happy with CD's!
G. McCollam
Bismarck
"Bilbo the silly hobbit started this affair,
and Bilbo had better finish it, or himself."
- The Council of Elrond
Roger Lai
The problem is that you picked the wrong SEASON to post your message.
Come back in the fall (when the college freshmen get their e-mail, there's
a big explosion in postings) and ask again... well, at least that's the
way it worked in the old days before the internet explosion.
Generally, when you ask something like "what's his best album", you'll end
up with some people who cite the S&G albums as being "the best", then
others will disagree and claim that "Graceland" and "ROTS" are better, and
then some of us who actually OWN the other albums will point out that
while yes, "Graceland" was a GREAT album, don't forget "One Trick Pony" or
"There Goes Rhymin' Simon".
I'll be totally controversial and point out a few factions that we have
here... we've got some folk music lovers... people who play guitar, listen
to Peter, Paul, and Mary, the Roches, etc.
Then we've got the Easy Listening Crowd. These are people who LOVE Art
Garfunkel's music, and wonder why there isn't an Artie newsgroup (these
are the same people who also read the James Taylor group)...
Then there are people like me. Another faction is young people like me...
people whose parents listened to Paul Simon (not mine), friends' parents
listened to Paul Simon, were introduced to Paul's music via Graceland
and/or cover versions of "Cecelia" or other songs, etc.
Roger
Trying to be obnoxious and stir up controversy
Roger Lai
>for a close second. Graceland offered something that had never been done
>-- collaberation (sp?) with such a diverse variety of musicians
>(Ladysmith, Linda R., Los Lobos, etc.), and it did so without sounding
>like a mish-mash.
I whole-heartedly agree that Graceland was INCREDIBLE. I only wish that
it stayed an Acordian and Saxophone album instead of becoming a "South
African" album. I mean I LOVE Ladysmith (who, by the way, are AWESOME in
concert, but I don't really like their albums), but I also think that Myth
of the Fingerprints, Graceland, and Boy in the Bubble are too often
overlooked. I only wish I had appreciated Paul's music when it was
released in the 80's.
Roger
P.S.--Rumble In The Bronx!!!! Yes! I saw this twice. Not as good the
second time around (and certainly not nearly as interesting as many of
Jackie's other movies), but I will do ANYTHING to support bringing more
Jackie Chan movies to the States.
mlu...@kub.nl
>From: rbla...@cc.swarthmore.edu (Robin K. Blanton)
>Subject: the state of this newsgroup
>Date: 29 Feb 1996 17:49:24 GMT
>OK, I am so mad! This newsgroup used to have articles actually ABOUT PAUL
>SIMON! Does no one care anymore, have we said all there is to say, what?
> Maybe I am hallucinating but I thought there was a time when there were
>discussions of the meaning of lyrics, themes in the songs and music, etc.
>I don't think the topic is exhausted! So I don't want to be one of those
>people who just writes a complainig post and then shuts up themselves
>forever.
aah, good.
So here are some topics--anyone have an opinion on
>the best Simon album? why?
we've had that one a couple of times already.
>is Paul better with or without Artie? who reads this group who likes the
>S&G stuff but not the solo stuff? or the other way around?
Jesus,not again!
>could you really say the songs are poems?
sure.
>Does anyone else hate "My Little Town?"
I don't. I more or less did, but kow I think it is brilliant. The muscial
break in betweenaaah.
>could anyone post the lyrics to the "Canticle" part
of "Scarborough>Fair/Canticle"?
they were posted two or three weeks ago.
>Is Paul better in concert?
Sometimes.
>what other bands/musicians do you like? is it because of some common
>factor they have with Paul Simon?
Joe Jackson, Jaques Loussier, Bach, Laudon Wainwright III, well, that's about
it.
>Or if you think these are dumb questions, think of something yourself! But
>I wish we could get some on-topic posts going!
Yes, I would like to talk about the lyrics of +she moves on+ . I love them,
but although I have the feeling that it is about something more than a lady
moving on, I can't seem to find it.
It si strange it starts with "I feel good", isn't it?
Why the fever in it.
I would love to have some on-topic discussions ass well
cheers,
luxe
>Robin
>--
>-----
>You can say the soul is gone
>and close another door
>Just make sure that yours is not the one
>N. Young
Amanda Bradford
>
>I whole-heartedly agree that Graceland was INCREDIBLE. I only wish that
>it stayed an Acordian and Saxophone album instead of becoming a "South
>African" album. I mean I LOVE Ladysmith (who, by the way, are AWESOME in
>concert, but I don't really like their albums), but I also think that Myth
>of the Fingerprints, Graceland, and Boy in the Bubble are too often
>overlooked. I only wish I had appreciated Paul's music when it was
>released in the 80's.
>
>Roger
Finally, people are starting to come out of their shells in this
newsgroup, I love it!!
Well, Roger, I really have to agree with you on this one. I
find that Myth of the Fingerprints and The Boy in the Bubble are
really overlooked too, but also, what about Crazy Love Vol. II
and Gumboots. These are songs that I absolutley love that are
overlooked as well.
Graceland is such an amazing album to me because, I can
literally listen to the entire album the whole way through, and
love EVERY song.(Well,Ok, some days I am just not all that up for
"That was your Mother" but it is still a good song) Also, with
Graceland, I can't pick out a definitive favorite song like I can
with most other albums I have. EVERY song on this album is my
favorite.
I also LOVE The Rhythm of the Saints. I do have favorite songs
on this one however: The Cool Cool River, The Coast, The Obvious
Child and especially, Spirit Voices. An unusual pick I guess, but
I find the song incredibly powerful.
Oh, and I am a MUCH bigger Paul Simon solo fan than I am an
S&G fan. Am I in the minority?
Good to see everyone looking alive again!
Amanda Bradford
abra...@sas.upenn.edu
anna
>>-----
>>You can say the soul is gone
>>and close another door
>>Just make sure that yours is not the one
>
>>N. Young
>
Hey Stringman, not to get off the Paul Simon subject but do you know where I can
find a Neil Young discussion group?
If none exists this is truly a travesty, eh?
jill
ghe...@macalstr.edu
week, so I decided I should post myself (though I see quite a few people beat
me to it ... thanks!).
To a certain extent I'm tired of graceland (only because my entire family
listened to it continually for two years after it came out) and in my current
dubious mental state I find myself gravitating towards his first solo album,
the just plain "Paul Simon." I just love the stereo-guitars and weird whoops
on Me+Julio. I like the 'clearer' instrumentation before he went for the
big-band sound, and soft-organ accompaniment. Still, whenever I listen to his
older albums, I am amazed how much of Graceland there was there already,
African-sounding percussion and vocals (like those whoops on Me+Julio,
McFerrinesque vocals on Train in the Distance (was it McFerrin?), etc).
Someone asked if people liked "my little town' I do. I know towns like that.
And if you do, it's a very pleasantly eerie song.
--Gabe (Insert lewd commend protesting CDA here) Heller
Amanda Bradford
>I AGREE THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP THIS THING ALIVE. BUT, I AM TIRED OF
>ANALYSIS. I NEED TO KNOW WERE I CAN GET MORE OF PAULS MUSIC.
>
>THANKS JK
Sorry, but I think "analysis" is a big part of this newsgroup or
any for that many. You cannot blame others for analyzing his
music. I too, would love to hear some new music from him, but can
we talk about the old stuff too?
Amanda Bradford
abra...@sas.upenn.edu
Susan Juliano
Amanda Bradford <abra...@sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>Sorry, but I think "analysis" is a big part of this newsgroup or
>any for that many. You cannot blame others for analyzing his
>music. I too, would love to hear some new music from him, but can
>we talk about the old stuff too?
We're going to have to if we want to keep a little life in this newsgroup!
Paul isn't one of those rockers who puts out a new albumn every 6 months, or
even once a year. Much as I would love to hear new stuff, I don't see any
choice but to talk about what we already have. And I certainly have no inside
line on what Mr. Simon plans for the future, so I have no news to convey.
I think one reason this group may be a little dead is because we might have
relatively new subscribers who fear to tread on ground that's been tramped
over a million times. I know that's why I held back for a long time.
So here's an open invitation to anyone who's afraid of saying what's already
been said to go ahead and say it. Not everyone has heard it before. And those
of you who *have* heard it before, please indulge us, correct us, encourage
us... OK? :-)
===========================================================
Susan Juliano <sjul...@moose.erie.net> "We all shine on." -John Lennon
Susan Juliano
>>Hearts and Bones -- although musically sounding VERY dated (painfully
>>early 80's) in my mind has some of the best songwriting Paul has ever
>>done. The reworkings Paul did of some of these songs on the Central Park
>>album show the strength of the songwriting. Graceland was indeed
>>brilliant -- the South African sound (and other influences) was definitely
>>what Paul needed, but the songs on Graceland definitely had their origins
>>on Hearts and Bones.
_Hearts and Bones_ *is* a wonderful album and I've always enjoyed it. But how
about giving us a few examples to support your thesis? Which songs from
_Hearts and Bones_ can you point to as having influenced specific songs or
aspects of _Graceland_?
I'm not flaming you or saying I disagree with you. This is just the way we
get some discussion going. Instead of saying what we like and don't like, we
need to give some reasons for our opinions. I'm looking forward to your
response.
Roger Lai
(Jessica Bahlman) wrote:
> I think OTP was more about the movie, (which was not really THAT happy)
> though I find Hearts and Bones to be sorta depressing (loss of a marriage
> in the title track and in Train in the Distance, Death of Jonh Lennon in
> Late Great Johnny Ace, loss of ability to use hand in Allergies, loss of
> wife in Think Too Much b) Though i guess some of the songs are up tempo.
> I LOVE the title track and Rene and Georgette... and Song ABout the Moon.
> Any thoughts on the meaning of Rene and Georgette Magritte...?
>
> Jess
I agree with this assessment. Hearts and Bones, on the surface, may have
up-beat music, but at its very heart, it is an album of introspection, and
one that Paul uses as therapy... One of the things I really like about
Paul's work, whether comedy, music, or One Trick Pony (the movie), is that
he's willing to share his emotions with us. On the "Born At The Right
Time" video, there's a clip of Paul giving a workshop on songwriting, in
which he says something to the effect that when you're blocked, that means
there's something so painful that you don't want to write it down. And if
you can figure out a different way to write about that, to share that,
that's what you should do.
Roger
Mark J. Goldman
Georgette Magritte...?
Jessica--
I posted some of my thoughts last year on this song, and at the risk of being
self-indulgent, let me post them again. It is one of my favorite of all PS
songs.
"Rene and Georgette Magritte With Their Dog After The War" -- whose
lyrics may at first seem less about anything in particular, than a collage of
poetic images -- nevertheless leaves me with a sense of warm romance, a hint
of nostalgia, and a graceful, gratified serenity. It's the feeling I might
have taking a leisurely evening stroll with my loved one, looking in the
stores, and singing songs of our youth. The atmosphere is not derived from a
literal story; the Penguins, Moonglows, et al. wouldn't be in the Magrittes'
reminiscing. They would, however, be in Paul Simon's. The atmosphere derives
from the collage made up by the different images, the sounds and movement of
the words, and the ethereal singing.
Paul admits the "Decades gliding by like Indians" just came to him while
jogging; I believe it -- it's always mystified me. But listen to the rhythm
of the words: the stretching out of the two syllables "DE-CAAAADES" (which
gives them a suspended, floating feel) followed by the short, soft staccato
syllables in "GLI-DING-BY-LIKE- IN-DI-ANS" -- like stepping lightly down to
earth, the final step being the stretched out "TIIIIIMMME" which seems to lift
us into the air again, and the short soft "IS-CHEAP" -- which, being shorter
than the "GLIDING" line, brings us to a rest. Two romantic lines with aural
anticipation and fulfillment, about two people who "side by side they fell
asleep" and grow so close through the years -- which pass as in a mutual dream
-- that their whole lives ("their personal belongings") "are intertwined."
The image of a group of Indians stealthily gliding by, like time, is an
unexpected and odd one, but one that I find strangely affective.
Like a Magritte painting, the lyrics are full of unexpected, but
wonderful images: the couple, having become succesful, and dining with stuffy
friends, share a private, intimate moment (". . . were dining with power
elite, when they looked in their bedroom drawer.") Inside the sturdy exterior
they wear among society ("the cabinet cold of their hearts" -- notice how the
careful word placement describes a heart inside a cold shell, but leaves the
listener, at the end of the line, inside the cabinet, on the warm word
"heart"), they find "hidden away" the warmth of their memories ("the Penquins,
etc." sung slower, somewhat wistfully, but with palpable fondness.)
And Paul's singing assures the song it's lovely warmth. He makes it look
easy to give an airy dreamlike quality to the words; listening to him sing
"apres le guerre" never fails to take my breath away. The song is a
beautifully sung, complex juxtaposition of images with a graceful rhythm about
a lucky couple with many wonderful romantic memories. "Easily losing their
evening clothes, they danced by the light of the moon." Sublime.
Mark Goldman
Los Angeles, California
Owen Allcock
>>Hearts and Bones -- although musically sounding VERY dated (painfully
>>early 80's) in my mind has some of the best songwriting Paul has ever
>>done. The reworkings Paul did of some of these songs on the Central Park
>>album show the strength of the songwriting. Graceland was indeed
>>brilliant -- the South African sound (and other influences) was definitely
>>what Paul needed, but the songs on Graceland definitely had their origins
>>on Hearts and Bones.
>
> with it. 'Cars are Cars' has been in my head all day. But what
> happened between One Trick Pony and Hearts and Bones to make the
> latter such a CHEERFUL album? This could be just personal taste, but
> H & B is a very happy-sounding album, while OTP has on occasion had
> me in tears.
I'm of the opinion that it is, on the whole, too "poppy", with catchy
music, but simplistic lyrics. However, I think that "Train in the
Distance", and the title track, are perhaps his two best songs (quite a
statement, given his extraordinary track record!). They both sound
painfully autobiographical, yet wonderfully universal, and the georgeous
music compliments the lyrics wonderfully. Oh, ok - I quite like "Cars are
Cars", too.
Question: Who plays the guitar solo on "allergies"? Sounds quite like Al
Demeloa!
--Owen "Drive 'em on the left" A.
--
____________________________________________________________________________
Rob
mar...@delphi.com says...
> "Rene and Georgette Magritte With Their Dog After The War" -- whose
>lyrics may at first seem less about anything in particular, than a
collage of
>poetic images -- nevertheless leaves me with a sense of warm romance, a
hint
>of nostalgia, and a graceful, gratified serenity. It's the feeling I
might
>have taking a leisurely evening stroll with my loved one, looking in the
>Mark Goldman
>Los Angeles, California
I've always enjoyed the song too. It might be because it's very complex
and it just leaves you with a feeling of satisfaction because you cannot
easily figure out what it's about. Paul may have meant it not to be
analyzed, just to be appreciated. One of my favorite lines of all time is
"Now and ever after as it was before..."
--Rob LeBlanc
Ed
Seeing this reference reminds me of another great PS song that has
been underrated, and that is "the Late Great Johnny Ace". It really
touches me still.
Ed
Mark J. Goldman
writes:
> Seeing this reference reminds me of another great PS song that has
> been underrated, and that is "the Late Great Johnny Ace". It really
> touches me still.
I'd like to hear whether people see this song as a "tribute" to John Lennon.
After many thousand listenings, I don't hear the song as being "about" John
Lennon. I think it is a mini-autobiography by PS -- a "remembrance"
stimulated by the news that Lennon had died. What we get is a sense of PS's
joy at playing his music, and a palpable sadness in the singer. It feels like
a celebratory song sung with a feeling of loss. It is only a tribute to
Lennon in a very indirect way: Lennon was important enough to PS to make him
think about his own life in music.
Do others feel that the song IS "about" Lennon in some way that I've missed?
Jessica Bahlman
is not the only one who dies in the song, remember. Don't forget Johnny
Ace and John Kennedy. I think it is just deaths that touched tooclose to
home with him and affected him in a similar way.
Jess
Roger Lai
part that sticks out in my mind the most is his sending away for the
picture. Even though he wasn't a big Johnny Ace fan, he mourned the loss
of someone famous, someone that connected with him for some reason. And
even though Johnny Ace was dead, the machine that surrounded him still
lived on, so it was still possible to get Johnny Ace's picture.
Roger
Gerrit du Preez
> >>lyrics may at first seem less about anything in particular, than a
> >collage of poetic images -- nevertheless leaves me with a sense of warm romance, a hint of nostalgia, and a graceful, gratified serenity. It's the
feeling I might > >>have taking a leisurely evening stroll with my loved one,
looking in the > >>stores, and singing songs of our youth. <some text
> >>Los Angeles, California
>
> >and it just leaves you with a feeling of satisfaction because you cannot
> >easily figure out what it's about. Paul may have meant it not to be
> >analyzed, just to be appreciated. One of my favorite lines of all time is
> >"Now and ever after as it was before..."
> > --Rob LeBlanc
>
I once saw an interview with him on video where he mentioned that there is a
surrealist trend to the lyric. People who know Magritte's work will probably
be unaware of the early bands he is singing about ("The Moonglows", "Five
Satins" - or somethin like that (sp?) - etc.) and vice versa. So he wrote a
song about a surrealist painter and in his lyric he played with surrealism
himself. I once saw the video of the song on TV and it was quite impressive
- they showed some of Magritte's paintings etc. That's about all I know
about the song, but I like it a lot.
Gerrit
Susan Juliano
mar...@delphi.com (Mark J. Goldman) wrote:
>I'd like to hear whether people see this song as a "tribute" to John Lennon.
>After many thousand listenings, I don't hear the song as being "about" John
>Lennon. I think it is a mini-autobiography by PS -- a "remembrance"
>stimulated by the news that Lennon had died. [...]
>Do others feel that the song IS "about" Lennon in some way that I've missed?
I've heard that the song is a tribute to Lennon about a million times, but I
just don't see it except, as you said, in a most indirect way. OTOH, we do
have to consider the many layers of meaning and innuendo that Simon is
capable of putting in a single song.
If we assume that Lennon's death originally inspired the song, then there is
a huge degree of distance between John Lennon and Johnny Ace. Was that a
deliberate distancing so that Simon would not be accused of jumping on a
bandwagon by writing yet another "tribute to Lennon" song? Or was it an
artistic choice based solely on a desire to be indirect and force the
listener to dig deeply for the comparison? Or was it simply that he had
difficulty writing about Lennon directly, what with the memories being so
much fresher and the potential for triteness being so much more obvious?
I tend to think there may be a message in the comparison itself. Does anybody
really remember Johnny Ace? How comparable was Ace to Lennon? Does the song
have anything to say about the death of legends and heroes in general? If so,
it's a sad song about how soon we forget and how relatively unimportant our
idols really are in the grand global scheme of life and history.
Nevertheless, there is a keen sense of personal loss in the song. One or both
of these legends was very important in some people's personal lives. Does
Simon fear that his own legendary status may eventually be on the level of
the late great Johnny Ace? Or is he mourning that Ace is largely forgotten?
Or is he warning that Lennon's legend will meet that same fate?
This is really the sort of song that makes me appreciate Paul Simon. So many
different interpretations interlocking, pulling apart, drawing together.
There's an immense poetic tension to be dealt with in the simple lyrics.
Uh... guess I didn't answer the question, did I? Oh, well. ;-)
Jean-Marc Orliaguet
says...
Here's Paul Simon's comment on the song :
( Transcribed from the 'Paul Simon Solo' TV documentary, available at
http://fy.chalmers.se/~jmo/simon.solo.html )
'The Late Great Johnny Ace' is a song about violence in America,
and I start off by talking about Johnny Ace because it's an early
memory, listening on the radio and hearing Allan Freed say that Johnny
Ace had killed himself playing Russian Roulette. And it's the first time
I can remember any kind of violence like that. That was in the middle in
the 1950's. By the early 1960's, John Kennedy was assassinated and then
all the rest of the history, everybody knows.
And by the time, John Lennon was killed, and as shocking as it was, it
almost didn't have the impact that it had on me the first time that I
heard that Johnny Ace was dead. It is not really about the stars you
feel of the 50's, I'm only using Johnny Ace as a metaphor for all the
three ( Johnny Ace, John Kennedy and John Lennon ).
Jean-Marc
Jean-Marc Orliaguet
>I once saw an interview with him on video where he mentioned that there
is a
>surrealist trend to the lyric. People who know Magritte's work will
probably
>be unaware of the early bands he is singing about ("The Moonglows",
"Five
>Satins" - or somethin like that (sp?) - etc.) and vice versa. So he
wrote a
>song about a surrealist painter and in his lyric he played with
surrealism
>himself. I once saw the video of the song on TV and it was quite
impressive
>- they showed some of Magritte's paintings etc. That's about all I
know
>about the song, but I like it a lot.
>
> Gerrit
Here's the transcript of the interview :
( available at http://fy.chalmers.se/~jmo/simon.solo.html )
'Rene and Georgette Magritte With Their Dog After The War' is a song
that I like a lot.
Personally, I think it's one of my best songs, but to be realistic about
it, the people that have heard about Magritte haven't heard about the
Penguins, and the Moonglows and The Orioles, and The Five Satins. People
who have heard of the Five Satins and the Penguins and the Moonglows
probably haven't a clue about who Magritte is, so it's a very small
audience that I'm addressing. I'm writing about a surrealist painter ,
so it's certainly not a great leap of the imagination to write a
surrealist song, the only sort of leap that was ironiously there is to
assume that anybody is gonna know what I'm talking about.
Jean-Marc
Bryan Forrest
" I had the idea to do a song called 'The Late Great Johnny Ace'
for a long time, and I wrote part of it revolving aroun those
two opening chords, which I liked. And I had that fragment of a song
for a long time when John Lennon was killed. I connec-
ted the final verse about Lennon with the first section by writing the
bridge. And the bridge was about the time in my
life right before Simon and Garfunkle, in 1964. [The bridge]
was really about JFK, the other late great Johnny Ace. The
ending orchestral section is by Phillip Glass."
Just in case you were wondering...
Here's to the girl with the high heeled shoes,
She smokes men's fags and drinks men's booze,
And when she kisses, she kisses so sweet,
She makes things stand that have no feet!
Adam Hilton
Susan's interperatations about its meaning, I have to disagree with the theory that it's about
all of the close losses in Paul's life. In the bridge he refers to his years living in
England which, as he describes, were possibly the best of his life. He says that he felt much
more accepted there (which he was - he was first truly "discovered" there). However, I still
think that the song is meant to be more dark than happy. I think that if there weren't even
lyrics one could infer this through the music alone as it starts out dark, takes a brief and
more upbeat interlude, and then melts and ends as it began. At this time in his life I think
that he was probably a little more inspired to be depressed; Heats and Bones was originally
meant to be a Simon & Garfunkel reunion when Art bailed due to his classes and family. Paul
was very put out by this and deleted all Garfunkel vocals from the album as retaliation. This
song, one of the last written on the album, could just be his feelings about his life in an
autobiography (as Susan said). I also think that this song could be a brief history of rock
and roll in his life.
As for my favorite song, I must admit that it is quite hard to say as I actually have many
favorites. Among these are: The Obvious Child; Coast; Homeless; Cecilia; The Cool, Cool
River; BOTW; Mrs. Robinson; The Boxer; and American Tune. I am also a big fan of Stranded in
a Limousine and an a capella version of Slip Slidin' Away, both found on the 1992 version of
The Paul Simon Songbook.
I'm not exactly a qualified song anylizer and many of the songs on Rhythm of the Saints have
left me clueless on interperetations (one of my greatest loves). If there is anybody out
there who thinks they know what the main idea of The Cool, Cool River is, please tell me! I
think it has something to do with how hate is ironically necessary for religion and love to
exist, but I really don't have much to go on. And is there anybody who absolutely loves The
Obvious Child as much as I do?
-Adam
Squi3
the only surviving remnant of an earlier project on John F. Kennedy. The
project, since abandoned, might have been a musical or film, I think, but
it was to be some kind of memorial. The three Johnnies who are mentioned
as dying in the song somehow become equated, if not equal, in my mind (one
of the interesting effects of a fine pop song). Obviously, Lennon's death
would have been freshest in Simon's mind, but as to the impact on Simon's
later life, it might be nice to think that the late President was more
influential. Now that I think about it, my source for quoting Simon as to
the JFK connection may have been one of Simon's essays on songwriting, an
essay which has appeared in various places including college English
texts, but none of which I can cite right now.
Mark Crawford
Ulrich Windl
Erik Strom
> I'm not exactly a qualified song anylizer and many of the songs on Rhythm of the Saints have
> left me clueless on interperetations (one of my greatest loves). If there is anybody out
> there who thinks they know what the main idea of The Cool, Cool River is, please tell me! I
> think it has something to do with how hate is ironically necessary for religion and love to
> exist, but I really don't have much to go on. And is there anybody who absolutely loves The
> Obvious Child as much as I do?
> -Adam
One thing to remember when trying to analyze Paul's lyrics is that he
often uses lyrics which have no real meaning, he just likes the sound of
it. I think that's why I love Paul's lyrics so much. I can imagine him
writing a song and not have any idea of what it means, and silently
laughing to himself when he hears other people trying to analyze it.
And yes, I beleive I love The Obvious Child as much as, if not more
than, you do. Those drums really get me going!
--
Erik
E-mail: m95...@student.tdb.uu.se
Homepage: http://www.student.tdb.uu.se/~m95ers
Tucker
actually, they do, even considering that the song was written by at least
mid-1981 (performed at Central Park w/garfunkel).
as for the song itself: to me, at least, it's about the different ways
that death can hit you. the death of Johnny Ace made the greatest
impact, because the subject of the song (paul, that is) was so young at
the time. when JFK dies in the middle, it doesn't have any effect (more
or less) because it's so far removed from paul's life. and lennon's
death has more of an effect since the singer is closer to death himself.
personally, i always wind up connecting (mentally) the orchestral bit at
the end with the going to the bar in the Lennon bit.
just my 2 cents...
--tucker
Tucker
>ironically necessary for religion and love to
>exist, but I really don't have much to go on.
looking at it from a purely top-level standpoint (as i tend to do) it's
the same general idea as "the boy in the bubble"-- the advance of
technology. but the tone is a lot darker than "the boy in the bubble"
was, while being hopeful at the same time. did that make any sense?
>And is there anybody who absolutely loves The
>Obvious Child as much as I do?
oh, gods, yes. any song that can sum up a life (paul's, mine, yours,
whosever) that well is incredible. besides, the drumming is a good
touch.
--tucker
Jessica Bahlman
I thought I heard in an interview once that one of the reasons he went to
England was because of the emotional impact of Kennedy's death. Maybe I
read it in the Humphries book, I don't know but I know I heard this
somewhere.
Jess
Ulrich Windl
Sharad V.S. Patel
Goldman" <mar...@delphi.com> writes
>In article <3137cc$b836...@news.sfasu.edu>, ep...@clam.rutgers.edu (Ed)
>writes:
>
>> Seeing this reference reminds me of another great PS song that has
>> been underrated, and that is "the Late Great Johnny Ace". It really
>> touches me still.
>
>After many thousand listenings, I don't hear the song as being "about" John
>Lennon. I think it is a mini-autobiography by PS -- a "remembrance"
>joy at playing his music, and a palpable sadness in the singer. It feels like
>a celebratory song sung with a feeling of loss. It is only a tribute to
>Lennon in a very indirect way: Lennon was important enough to PS to make him
>think about his own life in music.
>
>
>Los Angeles, California
I remember watching a documentry about PS where he said that this song
was inspired by three "Johns" who made some sort of impact on his life,
and who, by coincedence, met with violent deaths: Johnny Ace, John F.
Kennedy & John Lennon.
--
Sharad V.S. Patel
Ashleigh Williamson
know about an interesting link between Paul Simon and John Lennon. By the
way, nobody has mentioned the fact that the crucial difference between
the deaths of Johnny Ace and John Lennon is that Paul actually knew John
Lennon, simply by virtue of being a star himself by then and moving in
the same circles. Perhaps part of the poignancy is the fact that the
crazy fan with the gun could easily have been his and not Lennon's. This
is particularly noticeable when the guy jumps on stage during the Central
Park concert at the very moment Paul is singing the line about Lennon.
Anyway, the interesting fact has to do with Paul's hand injury in the
late seventies which threatened to put paid to his career as a guitarist.
He had tried every thing and was in despair until one day he literally
bumped into Lennon and Yoko Ono on the street (don't you wish you had
been there?!) and Yoko Ono suggested that he go an see an iridologist,
who was some Japanese women who could tell what was wrong with you and
how to cure it by looking in your eyes. So he did, and she helped him get
over the injury. Otherwise, there might never have been a Late Great
Johnny Ace at all........
This is undoubtedly a true story as it comes from the horse's mouth - an
interview with Paul for the BBC documentary "The Paul Simon Songbook".
Ashleigh
Adam Hilton
>looking at it from a purely top-level standpoint (as i tend to do) it's
>the same general idea as "the boy in the bubble"-- the advance of
>technology. but the tone is a lot darker than "the boy in the bubble"
>was, while being hopeful at the same time. did that make any sense?
I think I'm pretty sure I know what Tucker is talking about here. I've always felt that if
not by the music alone than definately by the lyrics that the song moves from a dark, negative
tone to a triumphant and inspiring ending. In the song, there is a dark tone which turns into
a negatively hopeful piece of bridge (the music being hopeful and the lyrics being negative -
I believe that spending a future wasted is nothing to rejoice about) and then all sign of hope
is once again crushed by the dark E11 chord that keeps ringing and lingering. At the song's
end, however, the hopeful-souning bridge combines with words of hope for his own wasted future
and together come
together in an inspiring climax. The haunting, dark melody does return for about 4 or 5
seconds at the end, though, providing a little food for thought. I really don't think Paul
really intended this type of analysis, however, as he increased the 4 or 5 seconds to about a
minute or two in his 1991 Concert in the Park/Born at the Right Time tour version. I must
agree with a fellow net user who commented on my reply to Johnny Ace (big apologies - your
name just escapes me right now) who said that Paul just writes lyrics that sound good - the
mark of a true poet. For those of you who remember the Beatles' song "Come Together" John
used this technique to make the entire song. Oh, well. So much for my analysis.
-Adam
Erik Strom
I must agree with a fellow net user who commented on my reply to Johnny Ace (big apologies - your
> name just escapes me right now) who said that Paul just writes lyrics that sound good - the
> mark of a true poet.
> -Adam
The name is Strom. Erik Strom.
Squi3
as overtly strong a start as "Boy in the Bubble," from the previous and
generally better received "Graceland." Have you seen and loved the VIDEO
as much as I do? The ending, with the "obvious child" virtually ignoring
the wildly emotive Simon, is funny, touching, and chilling all at once.
Simon recognizes in "Rhythm of the Saints," I suppose, that there are
limitations to his ability to reach out to Third World human beings,
impressive though that ability is. All this is just off the top of my
head, so I could be wrong in several details. But the drumming alone
demonstrates a passion for recording music off the street. For a
comparison, listen to that song off Joni Mitchell's "Hissing of Summer
Lawns" featuring the drums of Burundi. (I'm just rambling now.)
Mark Crawford
Roger Lai
> generally better received "Graceland." Have you seen and loved the VIDEO
> as much as I do? The ending, with the "obvious child" virtually ignoring
Okay, this has been bothering me for a bit now... I have only seen ONE of
Paul's videos, and that's You Can Call Me Al, and only because I taped 12
hours of VH-1's "marathon" showing of A to Z videos. HOW MANY Videos did
Paul make, and does anyone know if it's possible to get them on tape
somewhere? Is there a video archive library I can visit where I can see
them or something?
Roger
Jessica Bahlman
I have Proof (It's VERY funny, Paul, Steve Martin and Chevy Chase
dancing in Hammer pants!!) and Thelma was on video (But Paul Doesn't
appear in it ) I think homeless was too but I'm not sure (I got all this
from a friend on Prodigy who had a ready recorder when VH1 featured him
as artist of the month when he released the boxed set) There might be
more but I can't think, I'll go back to my video collection and look and
tell you if I have any more)
Jess
Wolfgang Spekner
I know further that there is a video of "The Obvious Child" and Paul
Simon appears on it, it's great, unfortunately I don't have it on tape.
Greetings
Wolfgang
Marcus Lusk
it, as well as Paul) which -as far as I know-only aired once, on NBC's
"The New Show" in 1983.
And there was a video for "Homeless," though I only saw a few seconds of
it on Entertainment Tonight back in '86.
Jessica Bahlman
Jess
AARON TODD ROSSETTO
computer animation (well, for that time). A stunning video for a
stunning song.
Aaron
---
Aaron Rossetto [ar9...@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca]
http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~ar94am
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
Squi3
I have heard from another subscriber to the newsgroup (can't remember who)
that there was also a video to "Born at the Right Time." That one I have
never seen. But sometime probably in the spring of 1993, an "Obvious
Child" video was aired--more than once, if I recall, and probably on VH-1.
I have an off-air tape of it, somewhere, and I remember that the video was
made in the streets of Rio, or maybe Bahia, and featured actual drummers
as heard on the music track, as well as a little kid sort of hanging out
with Paul. I couldn't find my videotape right away when my memory was
jogged by this newsgroup discussion. Maybe I'll be able to provide more
specifics if/when I find the tape.
William F. Picard
: Don't forget the video for "The Boy In The Bubble". State of the art 3D
: stunning song.
Wasn't there one for Graceland, too. Taking place in New Orlenes? Or my
imagination?