Now it's the MANICS IN CUBA!!!!
Mr.Psychosis
David Yates
if they where truly revolutionary they would be going to florida to play
baby elian
i listened to KYE right the way thru this afternoon. mostly shit.
"Mr.Psychosis" <mr.psy...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:99japr$1gknt$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de...
the seeker
recapture a sound they've passed, but trying to make the best of what comes
naturally, instead of trying to get what they've already had ...
--
I'm not photogenic = "I'm ugly"
Noel, what is it with you, peas and gloves!
clear
here it comes
"David Yates" <david...@blueyonderMYARSE.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8cav6.48164$g63.6...@nnrp3.clara.net...
oasisgrl
~oasisgrl~
Mr.Psychosis
David Yates wrote...
>if they where truly revolutionary they would be going to florida to play
>baby elian
They may or may not be revolutionary, but they certainly ain't fucking
suicidal.*
*Apart from Richey, allegedly.
David Yates
news:99je1p$1h21v$1...@ID-49246.news.dfncis.de...
> Elian is back with his daddy in cuba....
>
yeah I know, (in fact he and his dad met teh manics)
but the song is apparently more about americans and than about elian
Stuart Davis
bitter twisted indie pop freak... Justice for all things that sound good.
oasisgrl <san2j...@virginia.edu> wrote in message
news:99je1p$1h21v$1...@ID-49246.news.dfncis.de...
David Yates
"the seeker" <iwass...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:99jb7g$jl5$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
David Yates
news:99jeqq$hg$1...@mimas.brunel.ac.uk...
> give the manics a break lads. i like oasis and the manics and i'm not some
> bitter twisted indie pop freak... Justice for all things that sound good.
i used to like the manics. A LOT. the problem is that at the moment they
arent good... the new album is far too long with far too many duff tracks on
it, lyrically it is often just arrogant gibberish (IV agnostic for example);
worse than the stuff that richey got away with cos he was mad and fiercely
intelligent. and considering the fact that the previous LP was as musically
bland as westlife, it simply isnt good enough.....
Mr.Psychosis
David Yates wrote...
>took him 90 seconds to use the A word on that docu.
You're as bad as Sir Alex Ferguson with his fucking stopwatch. By the "A
word" I assume you don't mean "Armadillo".
The way I see it, if you had compiled all of Noel Gallagher's interviews
from last year, the "D word" would have come up at regular intervals. It
doesn't make Noel a monotonous bore. Likewise John Lennon going on about
peace, or Bobby Gillsepie going on about capitalism and imperialism.
If you make a record about a subject, journalists are gonna keep asking you
about it. It's hardly Nicky Wire's fault he has to keep repeating the same
old answers to the same old questions. How many times did Noel have to talk
about "coming off t'drugs" last year? Fucking hundreds.
Watch "Meeting People Is Easy" and see how fucking monotonous *journalists*
are.
KingCreole
many people who were waiting to stick the knife in the moment it got
released
--
KingCreole
www.toomanydjs.com
David Yates <david...@blueyonderMYARSE.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Yjbv6.56785$HR6.6...@nnrp4.clara.net...
KingCreole
old sound (which everyone assumed would be the holybible/gt sound) was a
load of bollocks
--
KingCreole
www.toomanydjs.com
the seeker <iwass...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:99jb7g$jl5$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
KingCreole
interview, theres absolutely nothing wrong if someone feels very strongly
about something and takes the oppurtunity to bring it to light...
--
KingCreole
www.toomanydjs.com
David Yates <david...@blueyonderMYARSE.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lgbv6.56780$HR6.6...@nnrp4.clara.net...
Molly M
(in message <99jh6h$1bpne$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de>):
> The way I see it, if you had compiled all of Noel Gallagher's interviews
> from last year, the "D word" would have come up at regular intervals. It
> doesn't make Noel a monotonous bore. Likewise John Lennon going on about
> peace, or Bobby Gillsepie going on about capitalism and imperialism.
That's true, and the A-word in the manics sense is not something they
invented either, it's a given fact, so technically they're right, but it's
just annoying that a band should get so political and go on about it so much
to back up a music that doesnt really, IMHO, stand up on its own.
Besides, ther's nothiing remotely revolutionary about going to Cuba for god's
sake the pope met Castro and Castro didnt' even eat him alive
the seeker
one who rambles on about it, but i use it as a reference of how desperately
clutchingly political they are, they just want something to shout about
--
I'm not photogenic = "I'm ugly"
Noel, what is it with you, peas and gloves!
clear
here it comes
"Mr.Psychosis" <mr.psy...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:99jh6h$1bpne$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de...
the seeker
lp i'm criticising ... from stuff that they've said, don't know how
recently, it's been about getting back to this old sound, which if true just
sounds a bit bollocksy to me
--
I'm not photogenic = "I'm ugly"
Noel, what is it with you, peas and gloves!
clear
here it comes
"KingCreole" <al...@toomanydjs.com> wrote in message
news:99kh8u$1ir1u$1...@ID-66014.news.dfncis.de...
Stuart Davis
most when they are gone..
David Yates <david...@blueyonderMYARSE.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Yjbv6.56785$HR6.6...@nnrp4.clara.net...
Mr.Psychosis
Molly M wrote...
>just annoying that a band should get so political and go on about it so
much
>to back up a music that doesnt really, IMHO, stand up on its own.
Who else is doing anything remotely political these days? You've got Primal
Scream and ADF, but that's about it. We *need* bands like the Manics to stir
things up. Or would your prefer asinine shite like: "Keep rollin, rollin,
rollin," and choreographed dance routines?
>Besides, ther's nothiing remotely revolutionary about going to Cuba for
god's
>sake the pope met Castro and Castro didnt' even eat him alive
It's still cool as fuck though.
Mr.Psychosis
the seeker wrote...
>that should have been directed at me instead of davio really, cos i'm the
>one who rambles on about it, but i use it as a reference of how desperately
>clutchingly political they are, they just want something to shout about
And 3 billion people living in poverty due to Americanisation and global
imperialism isn't worth shouting about?
Molly M
(in message <99kpvh$1ll5f$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de>):
> Who else is doing anything remotely political these days? You've got Primal
> Scream and ADF, but that's about it. We *need* bands like the Manics to stir
> things up. Or would your prefer asinine shite like: "Keep rollin, rollin,
> rollin," and choreographed dance routines?
Erm, no, but what about something like let me think... Oasis???? Their songs
are even more political, often, but in an indirect sense, and that's the best
sense if you want to make a statement thru art or music.
>> Besides, ther's nothiing remotely revolutionary about going to Cuba for
> god's
>> sake the pope met Castro and Castro didnt' even eat him alive
>
>
>
> It's still cool as fuck though.
Well you don't need a political excuse to go to Cuba, there's last minute
flights every day and it really is a beautiful place and the people are great
but just let's not praise our Castro to the stars without knowing what he's
really done to the country.
Mr.Psychosis
Molly M wrote...
>> Who else is doing anything remotely political these days? You've got
Primal
>> Scream and ADF, but that's about it. We *need* bands like the Manics to
stir
>> things up. Or would your prefer asinine shite like: "Keep rollin, rollin,
>> rollin," and choreographed dance routines?
>
>Erm, no, but what about something like let me think... Oasis???? Their
songs
>are even more political, often, but in an indirect sense, and that's the
best
>sense if you want to make a statement thru art or music.
When did Noel write a song about global imperialism? Or the IMF?
KingCreole
embrace..oohh.. ;)
that'll make em all happy
--
KingCreole
www.toomanydjs.com
Mr.Psychosis <mr.psy...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:99kqom$1m8am$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de...
Mr.Psychosis
KingCreole wrote...
>hey psychosis, maybe when the manics split we can all listen to
>embrace..oohh.. ;)
>that'll make em all happy
Yeah, probably.
It's not that I'm against music being fun. I'm an Oasis fan for fuck's sake.
It just annoys me when people living in relative comfort start slagging off
bands for getting political. The very fact that we are even discussing the
IMF or the World Bank is down to the Manics going to Cuba. Isn't that a good
enough reason for going in itself? We certainly wouldn't be talking about it
if every band was like Embrace; or Oasis for that matter.
There's a big fucking world out there, and most of it is fucked up. To
ignore it would be a crime against humanity.
the seeker
line with the argument about poverty, but i esem that while they're goinga
good thing, musically the manic street preachers are a bit ... and i'm not
talking about the songs, regardless of how good/bad they are (removables off
emg's a top song) ... i just think they're a bit desperate. anyway, only
mho.
--
drink of the day: robinson's peach fruit barley - and to think, if it hadn't
been on offer, i wouldn't have tried it
big tube that you don't get enough jaffa cakes in of the day: jaffa cakes
tubes
"Mr.Psychosis" <mr.psy...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:99kqom$1m8am$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de...
Molly M
(in message <99ku7u$1io2r$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de>):
> It just annoys me when people living in relative comfort start slagging off
> bands for getting political.
Well I know what you mean, I don't do that as a rule, it's just I find the
Manics' attitude annoying, that's all, other bands have also political
stances but it goes hand in hand with good music (guess who I'm talking
about!) and it also goes with a positive, not naive but positive, attitude,
not some bleak pessimism...
> The very fact that we are even discussing the
> IMF or the World Bank is down to the Manics going to Cuba.
Well yes if you mean talking about it here, now, but I don't really think
people get political by listening to bands, really. You get political in
school, at uni, whatever.... not by buying a record, generally.
> Isn't that a good
> enough reason for going in itself? We certainly wouldn't be talking about it
> if every band was like Embrace; or Oasis for that matter.
The point is not really talking about it only though... You are right, its
already a start, but the reasons behind are indeed important, and I don't
think artists should go on so much and so seriously about political issues,
cos it casts a doubt on their real reasons for talking about it...
>
> There's a big fucking world out there, and most of it is fucked up. To
> ignore it would be a crime against humanity.
>
Well then what's the difference between ignoring it altogether and talking a
lot about it without being able to actually do anything about it??
Unfair I know that's the toughest question of all times. It's kind of
rhetorical as well.
Molly M
(in message <99ks5j$1lfuk$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de>):
>> Erm, no, but what about something like let me think... Oasis???? Their
> songs
>> are even more political, often, but in an indirect sense, and that's the
> best
>> sense if you want to make a statement thru art or music.
>
> When did Noel write a song about global imperialism? Or the IMF?
Mr.P, I assume you have a bad hangover today, cos that's the only explanation
I can think of for your not understanding my meaning ;-)
Political is not only stuff about 'politics' in the strict sense, ie.
imperialism or the IMF or the government. I think in music something can be
political when it makes a statement about social life, about people, about a
view of the world, and it's all stuff I can find in Noel's songs. He's
strictly speaking completely a-political, since he said he doesn't even care
for campaigns such as Bono's or stuff like that, you know. But his songs
speak clearly about what he thinks about society. Thats, in a wider sense,
political too. A song like Live Forever is splendidly 'political' in this
sense: "I don't wanna know how your garden grows", hey that sums up so much
despise for a certain kind of people or 'class' if you like... Some Might
Say... Roll With It.... even b-sides like Alive... Oasis music is not
political but it has always that anger that passion that does have some
meaning for 'the people', I didn't invent that. That's my meaning of
political in music, at least.
fountainhead
> Watch "Meeting People Is Easy" and see how fucking monotonous
> *journalists* are.
the real tragedy is that the journalists in that film were only
asking the questions that 95% of the people they were writing
for/broadcasting to wanted to know the answers to.
f.
--
"we're making a record, not a soufflé"
founta...@earthling.net ::: fitterhappier.moreproductive.net
death by spanking ::: the alt.music.blur homepage and faq
----------------------- http://www.blurry.co.uk ---------
fountainhead
> The very fact that we are even discussing the
> IMF or the World Bank is down to the Manics going to Cuba. Isn't that a
good
> enough reason for going in itself?
despite my anti-manics stance, i have to agree there. whether
they meant to or not, they've started discussions like this all
over the place.
it reminds me of a big palava that went on at leeds uni when
i was there. a bunch of arts students were given a grant to
put on an exhibition. what they did was leave a bottle of
sangria in a room, and all fuck of on holiday in spain for
a week. was that art? well for two weeks everyone on
campus (as well as various national newspers and
discussion shows) was talking about what constitutes
art thus, perhaps unknowingly, totally vindicating what
those students did.
> We certainly wouldn't be talking about it
> if every band was like Embrace; or Oasis for that matter.
on the one hand, this is one of the reasons oasis don't do as
much for me as they used to - in the early days their material
had a real point to it. it wasn't necessarily political, but it
said something about the world. on the other hand, it
occurs to me that none of my own bands songs are about
anything in particular at all, but i don't think any the less of
them. there's a balance to be struck. we need bands with
something to say, but it's nice to have some that are more
concerned with the music than the message. sadly, these
days it seems that the balance is horribly tilted towards the
latter. i'm not anti dance music, but i think that it's one of
the major causes - it's an ongoing musical revolution which,
for the most part, is thoroughly devoid of any kind of meaningful
content. with the state of mainstream guitar music as it is
( i can't see starsailor or alfie doing much to challenge the
world order) and popular rap and hip hop being ever
sanitised, it's hard to see how things are going to change.
f.
the seeker
--
drink of the day: robinson's peach fruit barley - and to think, if it hadn't
been on offer, i wouldn't have tried it
big tube that you don't get enough jaffa cakes in of the day: jaffa cakes
tubes
Psalms 137:9
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones.
Mmm-hmm, sick genuine bible quotes
"Mr.Psychosis" <mr.psy...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:99kpvh$1ll5f$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de...
Molly M
(in message <99lon4$9av$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>):
> primal scream are great
>
> --
That's like saying the sun is bright :-)
Snapper
--
Snappers Law: Baseball wrong, man with four balls can't walk
If you drop a cat, it'll always land on its feet. But what if you tie
a brick to its back?
If you friend has a fly on his head, don't use a hatchet to remove it.
Use a flamethrower, it'll light his ciggy as well.
In case of emergency, break glass. Scream. Bleed to death
www.brainofbrian.com - seriously funny site
"Molly M" <mov...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01HW.B6E439310...@news.galactica.it...
: On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 23:39:59 +0200, the seeker wrote
:
Mr.Psychosis
Molly M wrote...
>it's just I find the
>Manics' attitude annoying, that's all, other bands have also political
>stances but it goes hand in hand with good music (guess who I'm talking
>about!) and it also goes with a positive, not naive but positive, attitude,
>not some bleak pessimism...
You just don't get it, do you? Go listen to "Let Robeson Sing" by the
Manics, read about Paul Robeson's life, then tell me that song isn't the
most uplifting thing you've heard all year. I dare you. Until then, don't
tell me the Manics are full of bleak pessimism.
>Well yes if you mean talking about it here, now, but I don't really think
>people get political by listening to bands, really. You get political in
>school, at uni, whatever.... not by buying a record, generally.
I'm sorry, I disagree with you. Bands like the Manics and Asian Dub
Foundation have taught me more about world politics than any educational
establishment ever has. I shamefully admit I'd never even heard of Paul
Robeson before the Manics wrote a song about him. I knew next to nothing
about the IMF before listening to Asian Dub Foundation. If nothing else,
these bands stir up interest in issues that rarely get talked about in
everyday society. Certainly not in alt.music.oasis.
>The point is not really talking about it only though... You are right, its
>already a start, but the reasons behind are indeed important, and I don't
>think artists should go on so much and so seriously about political issues,
>cos it casts a doubt on their real reasons for talking about it...
Who cares about their real reasons? Who cares why the Manics went to Cuba?
It served to highlight particular problems in modern society: namely
imperialism and capitalism, and that there is still a place where socialism
to a certain extent works, despite massive pressure from America. Besides, I
personally think the Manics believe in what they sing about, otherwise
they'd be pretty sad, wouldn't they?
Mr.Psychosis
Molly M wrote...
>> When did Noel write a song about global imperialism? Or the IMF?
>
>Mr.P, I assume you have a bad hangover today, cos that's the only
>explanation
>I can think of for your not understanding my meaning ;-)
I perfectly understand your meaning. You're talking about Oasis being a
political band in only the loosest sense imaginable. I'm talking about
*overtly* political bands like the Manics, Primal Scream, Asian Dub
Foundation, The Clash, etc. Bands that actively encourage debates like the
one we're having now. With all due respect, Oasis ain't a political band
with a capital P. Be honest.
mad ferret
> You just don't get it, do you? Go listen to "Let Robeson Sing"
> by the Manics, read about Paul Robeson's life, then tell me
> that song isn't the most uplifting thing you've heard all year.
> I dare you. Until then, don't tell me the Manics are full of
> bleak pessimism.
IMHO i listen to music to enjoy it, not to get political meanings out
of it, that partiucular track is one of my favourites off KYE, but not
because of any meaning in the lyrics, for the shallow reason it's a
great melody. Though it does have a Gallagher style lyric at the end
that makes me laugh 'sing it loud, sing it proud1
Mr.Psychosis
mad ferret wrote...
>IMHO i listen to music to enjoy it, not to get political meanings out
>of it, that partiucular track is one of my favourites off KYE, but not
>because of any meaning in the lyrics, for the shallow reason it's a
>great melody. Though it does have a Gallagher style lyric at the end
>that makes me laugh 'sing it loud, sing it proud1
Might I suggest you type "Paul Robeson" into google and then read about his
life? That song took on a whole new meaning for me after I read about what
he did with his life. It's beautiful. Especially when his voice comes in
during the middle-eight.
MOR pish, my arse. It makes "Kid A" look like the wanky nonsense that it is.
the seeker
sick poo fetishist. well, with the tone of the thread sufficiently lowered,
i will leave you now. also, if anyone's got any decent ways of making money
other than prostitution, please tell me. saying 'get a job' isn't that
funny either*
*no, not even funny enough to make putting 'get a job' as a reply funny or
ironic or whatever bollocks you think someone'll appreciate
> MOR pish, my arse
Molly M
>
> You just don't get it, do you? Go listen to "Let Robeson Sing" by the
> Manics,
No you're right that's exactly the point: I don't get it! I don't wanna go
listen to anything by the Manics cos what I stumbled on and heard is crap
enough for me for *my* tastes and doesnt invite me to hear more.
Same as with the Smiths, I don't believe in 'educating your taste' if that
means that you should insist on liking stuff that at first impression you
hated, that's all! I rely on my own taste, as everyone else, so why should I
like the Manics or the Smiths??? Just cos everyone praises them? no thanks!
> read about Paul Robeson's life,
I don't know who he is.
> then tell me that song isn't the
> most uplifting thing you've heard all year. I dare you. Until then, don't
> tell me the Manics are full of bleak pessimism.
Mr.P weren't you the one going on about instinctive approach to music? My
instinct tells me that not only after first impressions but after repeated
hearing well to me to *me* the Manics are crap. Respect to you and anyone
else who likes them but to me they suck and mean nothing and sound depressing
and bleak just like the Smiths. Am I allowed to have that opinion? I think I
am. I'm not discussing their possible artistic merits I'm just saying I can't
stand them at all. So why should I bother to listen more, just to torture my
ears?
>> Well yes if you mean talking about it here, now, but I don't really think
>> people get political by listening to bands, really. You get political in
>> school, at uni, whatever.... not by buying a record, generally.
>
>
>
> I'm sorry, I disagree with you. Bands like the Manics and Asian Dub
> Foundation have taught me more about world politics than any educational
> establishment ever has.
Fair enough, that was just my general impression that people who seriously
get interested in politics don't do so just cos of a song.
>I shamefully admit I'd never even heard of Paul
> Robeson before the Manics wrote a song about him. I knew next to nothing
> about the IMF before listening to Asian Dub Foundation.
Jesus where were you in the last decade? on the moon? didn't you read the
papers? cos that's usually where people learn about politics and world
events, you know ;-))
> If nothing else,
> these bands stir up interest in issues that rarely get talked about in
> everyday society. Certainly not in alt.music.oasis.
Oh yeah now start a petition, we could talk about the World Debt here now
that would be stimulating and of great help to everyone! No really come on, I
do understand what you mean, but do you really think that just mentioning
stuff like that without knowing more about the facts and just cos some band
brought that to attention is enough?? or better than nothing? I think it's
pointless to talk about such issues if not in a proper serious and documented
context.
Take all the talk about AIDS and all the charities that raise funds, do you
know where those funds go? Not to the people suffering from the disease no,
they go to the 'research'. Which means: research not on the disease itself
but reasearch on new expensive and always different drugs to 'treat' it. As
if. Now that's something I do keep in mind each time a celeb donates to a
charity for 'research' on HIV/AIDS. And incidentally, that correlation has
never been proven and those drugs are more lethal than the disease they
purport to 'treat'. The Foo Fighters are sponsoring an associaton in LA that
challenges this whole approach of the 'research' on Aids, now that's
something I understand more cos they're focusing on some organization that
actually provides some information. But I learnt about it in the press not
from the Foo (they just played some gigs in support of that org and have a
link on their website).
> Who cares about their real reasons? Who cares why the Manics went to Cuba?
Now listen, of course there's always some not-so-naive motivation and that is
marketing and publicity, but hey we got to draw a line here, going to Cuba
itself means nothing. And if it involves speaking against the Americans just
for the sake of it and totally forgetting Castro is a dictator who may have
mellowed out with age and may have never been as cruel as Pinochet but did
his fair deal of imprisoning or killing protesters and banning freedom
well..... its not a stupid question to ask 'why they went to cuba'!
> It served to highlight particular problems in modern society: namely
> imperialism and capitalism,
Which also brought some good things, they are not 'the' problem, it's the
practices and the hows that are the problem but hey do you prefer things
like communism, fascism, nazism, you name it? take your pick.
> and that there is still a place where socialism
> to a certain extent works, despite massive pressure from America.
Have you asked Cuban people what they think about the situation? Of course
they may resent american sanctions but that doesn't mean they glorify Castro
or his system which incidentally is NOT socialism but dictatorship, I think
you overlook this small detail. He's more of an idol here in Europe,
curiously enough....
> Besides, I
> personally think the Manics believe in what they sing about, otherwise
> they'd be pretty sad, wouldn't they?
You said it! :-))
Molly M
(in message <99luck$1pg89$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de>):
>
> Molly M wrote...
>
>>> When did Noel write a song about global imperialism? Or the IMF?
>>
>> Mr.P, I assume you have a bad hangover today, cos that's the only
>> explanation
>> I can think of for your not understanding my meaning ;-)
>
>
> I perfectly understand your meaning. You're talking about Oasis being a
> political band in only the loosest sense imaginable.
Exactly, that's what I said too. Cos to me, IMHO, that's the best way an
artist can be 'political'. Art and politics stricty speaking never agreed
much. But take Picasso's Guernica: it said more about the cruelty of war than
any overt speech or condemnation. Oasis are not even at that level of course
but they do mean something to people and that's my sense of art and music.
> I'm talking about
> *overtly* political bands like the Manics, Primal Scream,
Hey hey PS are an exception cos they don't go on like the Manics, they write
great music that can be appreciated for what it is and their politics are not
so thrown in your face as the Manics do.
> Asian Dub
> Foundation,
That's different too, both for the kind of music and the way they incorporate
the 'politics' which is not some thing plastered on with a preachers approach
like in the manics. It's all a whole with the music and again it's stuff that
can be appreciated as it is and the politics does not ruin anything it's part
of their approach to music as well, it's different, I think you understand
what I mean though I can't explain it too well sorry! :-)
>The Clash,
Hmm that I don't know much about but it was also a different period...
> etc. Bands that actively encourage debates like the
> one we're having now. With all due respect, Oasis ain't a political band
> with a capital P. Be honest.
>
And thank God they aren't! And I said that, they are apolitical, I totally
agree (why you wanna find disagreement at any cost even when we say the very
same things drives me nuts!!!). But to me that's a virtue in art and also
it's not 'apolitical' in the sense that it's careless and has no meaning and
it's just pure entertainment and fun and whatever, its music that means
something to many people obviously. That's what I prefer over a band being
Political with a capital P. That's my own approach, respect if you prefer the
other one, fine, but don't demand me to agree on the fact that it's always a
good thing for a band to go on so much about Politics throwing that in your
face like propaganda and political rallies. Ok? I just beg to differ on that,
if I am allowed ;-)
G
TFL, G.
Mr.Psychosis
Molly M wrote...
>But take Picasso's Guernica: it said more about the cruelty of war than
>any overt speech or condemnation. Oasis are not even at that level of
>course but they do mean something to people and that's my sense of
>art and music.
How can you possibly compare Oasis' political influence to that of Picasso's
"Guernica"? It's like comparing Britney Spears' political influence to that
of Edvard Munch's "The Scream". Now, Britney may have a nice pair of
silicon-enhanced boobs, and the most perfect 19 year-old derrière
imaginable, but she's hardly an "icon of angst", is she?
However, it's appropriate you should bring up Picasso's painting, because
there is a song on the new Manics album called, you've guessed it,
"Guernica".
See, that's my point. Noel's probably never even heard of Picasso's
painting, whereas the Manics have just written a song about it. That means
all those impressionable Manics fans who've never seen the painting before
now have the perfect opportunity to find out what it looks like, thus seeing
the true "cruelty of war" as you put it. How is that going to happen by a
few spotty oiks listening to "Fuckin' In The Bushes"?
Mr.Psychosis
Molly M wrote...
>> You just don't get it, do you? Go listen to "Let Robeson Sing" by the
>> Manics,
>
>No you're right that's exactly the point: I don't get it! I don't wanna go
>listen to anything by the Manics cos what I stumbled on and heard is crap
>enough for me for *my* tastes and doesnt invite me to hear more.
Well, if you're not prepared to listen to "Let Robeson Sing", you'll just
have to take my word for it that it's not "bleak pessimism" as you so
elequently put it.
>> read about Paul Robeson's life,
>
>I don't know who he is.
That's *why* you should read about him. Or is ignorance bliss?
>Fair enough, that was just my general impression that people who seriously
>get interested in politics don't do so just cos of a song.
I'm not talking about the people who are *seriously* interested in politics.
I'm talking about people like me who normally don't give a shit about what
slimey politicians say, but are prepared to listen to rock stars. Surely you
being a Bono fan, mullet n'all, must appreciate that.
>> It served to highlight particular problems in modern society: namely
>> imperialism and capitalism,
>
>Which also brought some good things, they are not 'the' problem, it's the
>practices and the hows that are the problem but hey do you prefer things
>like communism, fascism, nazism, you name it? take your pick.
I don't particularly care for any isms, thank you very much. But I prefer
the *idea* of communism and socialism more than the *idea* of imperialism
and capitalism. Capitalism succeeds for the few by exploiting the many.
Socialism may ultimately fail, but at least it holds hands with humanity.
>Have you asked Cuban people what they think about the situation? Of course
>they may resent american sanctions but that doesn't mean they glorify
>Castro
>or his system which incidentally is NOT socialism but dictatorship, I think
>you overlook this small detail. He's more of an idol here in Europe,
>curiously enough....
I'm not glorifying or deifying Castro. Neither are the Manics. Cuba is just
an example of how life doesn't have to revolve around greed and
exploitation. Of course dictatorship is wrong, but western leaders have been
dictating over the developing world for decades in more subtle, but
ultimately more damaging ways.
>> Besides, I
>> personally think the Manics believe in what they sing about, otherwise
>> they'd be pretty sad, wouldn't they?
>
>You said it! :-))
What's that supposed to mean? Do you think they are fakes?
the seeker
--
drink of the day: robinson's peach fruit barley - and to think, if it hadn't
been on offer, i wouldn't have tried it
big tube that you don't get enough jaffa cakes in of the day: jaffa cakes
tubes
"i'm gonna do blue movies" what shaun ryder told his careers advisor at
school, about what he'd do when he left
basically, norwich is fuckall surrounded by fuckall
"G" <gavin...@REMOVE-THISbt.com> wrote in message
news:3ABF4F34...@REMOVE-THISbt.com...
mad ferret
> Take all the talk about AIDS and all the charities that raise funds,
>do you know where those funds go? Not to the people suffering
> from the disease no, they go to the 'research'. Which means:
> research not on the disease itself but reasearch on new expensive
> And incidentally, that correlation has never been proven and
> those drugs are more lethal than the disease they
> purport to 'treat'.
What are you talking about. Research into drugs to treat HIV and AIDS
has given thousands of people a much higher quality of life. That is
a proven fact!! Do you think biochemists/biologists/pharmacists
should work for free in working towards cures?
KingCreole
--
KingCreole
www.toomanydjs.com
Mr.Psychosis <mr.psy...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:99nt1t$21hfd$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de...
KingCreole
Bible'
--
KingCreole
www.toomanydjs.com
G <gavin...@REMOVE-THISbt.com> wrote in message
news:3ABF4F34...@REMOVE-THISbt.com...
KingCreole
--
KingCreole
www.toomanydjs.com
the seeker <iwass...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:99nu0a$vd9$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Mr.Psychosis
KingCreole wrote...
>i'm taking a look now so he can't be wrong...
Fascinating, isn't it? :)
Molly M
(in message <42Mv6.21397$PF4....@news.iol.ie>):
>
> What are you talking about. Research into drugs to treat HIV and AIDS
> has given thousands of people a much higher quality of life. That is
> a proven fact!! Do you think biochemists/biologists/pharmacists
> should work for free in working towards cures?
No I didnt imply that! But there's some stuff that is not so obvious as it
seems, I am not against the drug industry per se when it helps people, and it
does, but on this subject of HIV/AIDS there's just a lot of stuff that is not
clear.... it's a long story and I'm not with the "dissenters" but I think
their countertheories are interesting and should be considered.
I just dont like the fact they give you drugs for AIDS as soon as they find
out you're HIV positive, cos in some cases some people can't stand those
drugs very well and it makes them sick before they even had the symptoms of
AIDS.... and the causes and correlation between the two is still a bit
fuzzy... so I'm kind of interested in what the so called dissenting theories
have to say on this..
Its not all black and white and I don't have clear ideas but I like hearing
more than just one side of the story, that's all. It's also a "proven fact"
that some drugs (medicines) can be quite bad for you and are often prescribed
with no criteria but just cos the pharmaceutical drug industry "plugs"
them... Prozac, for instance. Or many psychiatric drugs that do more harm
than good, or cancer treatments, especially for kids, have you ever read
labels of those pills they give to people with serious diseases like that? If
you did you must have been scared by the list of side effects and this is ok
if there's an advantage and a final good effect that is higher than the
disadvantages, but unfortunately it's not always so.... It *is* an industry
and it's often getting too commercial and that's not good cos it's not a
commercial item but health we're talking about.
Molly M
> Well, if you're not prepared to listen to "Let Robeson Sing", you'll just
> have to take my word for it that it's not "bleak pessimism" as you so
> elequently put it.
Fair enough, though that's a bit subjective, what I heard so far of the
Manics sounds depressing to me and what I know of their personality sounds
even worse. There was a tv doc they made on that guy who was in the manics
and was kind of psycho, tried to kill himself and slashed his arm in thousand
places with a knife in front of journalists at a press conference. They even
showed the pics. Well one of the others said, in that *recent* interview,
that it was an 'act of defiance' towards the system or whatever.... I think
it was a very sad thing to do, so I am not really too impressed with the fact
they still see it as something to be proud of.
>>> read about Paul Robeson's life,
>>
>> I don't know who he is.
>
>
> That's *why* you should read about him. Or is ignorance bliss?
God no but I just said I never heard of him and I can't be knowing everything
about every political activist in human history can I? Besides, I certainly
don't need to hear about *antifascism* from the Manics!!!
>> Fair enough, that was just my general impression that people who seriously
>> get interested in politics don't do so just cos of a song.
>
>
> I'm not talking about the people who are *seriously* interested in politics.
> I'm talking about people like me who normally don't give a shit about what
> slimey politicians say, but are prepared to listen to rock stars. Surely you
> being a Bono fan, mullet n'all, must appreciate that.
Hey hey that's a nasty trick! First of all, I don't listen to what Bono goes
on about politically so much, but there is however a difference: Bono and
mates have a kind of less political approach and more of a focus on *human
rights* which I find more interesting cos it appeals to everyone and it
involves everyone. I do remember finding out on their record sleeves that
they supported amnesty and the like, now that's a *bit* different from
preaching communism.... I often found it irritating though even when U2 got
too involved, in the rattle and hum tour Bono was giving bloody sermons every
night and though I do think there was a passion there it did tend to get too
much, so much that they smashed the whole image to pieces with Zooropa and
"uncertainty can be a guiding light" which I find much more interesting.
>>> It served to highlight particular problems in modern society: namely
>>> imperialism and capitalism,
>>
>> Which also brought some good things, they are not 'the' problem, it's the
>> practices and the hows that are the problem but hey do you prefer things
>> like communism, fascism, nazism, you name it? take your pick.
>
>
> I don't particularly care for any isms, thank you very much. But I prefer
> the *idea* of communism and socialism more than the *idea* of imperialism
> and capitalism. Capitalism succeeds for the few by exploiting the many.
> Socialism may ultimately fail, but at least it holds hands with humanity.
I know what you mean cos I used to have the same attitude, about getting
enthusiastic for *ideas* but they lead nowhere you got to see the
applicability and besides even a lot of the ideas of communism are pure crap,
you can't erase the differences between humans cos difference is the way
nature works. The rich/poor divide has become enormous today just cos the
population of the earth has gotten huge! Wasn't there the same divide 3000
years ago? Remember the pharaos and how they built their pyramids on the work
of slaves? Nothing much has changed. You can only tend to the *least
imperfect* system but you can never have a system that starts out by saying
'hey look at me I'm perfect', and that's what communism did. It became an
opium for the people itself and it never ever succeded anywhere cos it always
led to dictatorships and lack of freedom.
Capitalism has brought a few good things with it you know. More wellbeing for
more people and more freedom and opportunity. Of course I don't mean the wild
capitalism and the excesses it had reached in many areas, but you can't do
without a free market cos the alternative is total state control and it's not
only unfeasible it's also unfair. A free market with some human rules and
principles of welfare assistance and all that, the basic good principles of
the origins of socialism, that's the ideal, and though it's hard there are
countries in Europe where there's an ok-ish balance between the two.
I just can't stand this attitude of chucking the whole idea of america and
capitalism in the bin. Before the beginnings of "capitalism" there was
aristocratic power and feudalism, is that better? Before the "modern"
capitalism there were world wars and poverty all over the world. People who
are old enough to remember the hard post-war times are quite grateful to
'capitalism' and to the Americans for well first of all saving our arse from
the fascist and nazi and second for bringing wealth where before there was
desperation and poorness so much that people had to emigrate.
It's totally bullshit to attack the americans unconditionally without
considering the whole recent history - and mind you I'm the first to say
'bastards' when they bombed Iraq or Serbia in recent years and I can't stand
the militarism and arrogance but I cant stand unconditional anti-americanism
either. Especially from a rock band who uses it like some kind of identity
card.
>
> I'm not glorifying or deifying Castro. Neither are the Manics.
Well but they're totally forgetting who he is. Why dont they go meet the
Chinese leaders who murdered the students in Tien An Men too? Eh? Nah China
is not as fashionable as a 'communist' country as Cuba, of course. Cos China
is the nasty face of communism and we don't want to see that, god no.
> Cuba is just
> an example of how life doesn't have to revolve around greed and
> exploitation.
What do you know about that? Have you met Cubans? How can you say they're
happy to live there and why then so many escape to Florida, just cos they
want to be able to go into a MacDonalds?? Life doesn't have to revolve around
limitations of freedom either!
>Of course dictatorship is wrong, but western leaders have been
> dictating over the developing world for decades in more subtle, but
> ultimately more damaging ways.
Oh now, that's the same isn't it. At least some freedom of opinion is still
possible. Power is power you can't expect the earth to become heaven for
everyone, power is always nasty but there is a difference between a dictator
and even the most bastard leader of a *democratic* country.
>
>
>>> Besides, I
>>> personally think the Manics believe in what they sing about, otherwise
>>> they'd be pretty sad, wouldn't they?
>>
>> You said it! :-))
>
>
> What's that supposed to mean? Do you think they are fakes?
I don't know but it just looks so easy to me to pick Cuba and talk against
Americanization, such an easy target and things taken out of context (Castro
as hero instead of dictator ie. a bastard). Maybe they genuinely believe in
that but that doesn't mean I should admire them for preaching communism in
such an easy package.
Molly M
(in message <99nt1t$21hfd$1...@ID-71939.news.dfncis.de>):
>> But take Picasso's Guernica: it said more about the cruelty of war than
>> any overt speech or condemnation. Oasis are not even at that level of
>> course but they do mean something to people and that's my sense of
>> art and music.
>
>
> How can you possibly compare Oasis' political influence to that of Picasso's
> "Guernica"?
Oh please re-read the above and tell me how I compared the two when I said
they're not at that level! It was an instance (not the best one but the first
that sprang to mind) to say that politics dont have to DIRECT Politics with
capital P in art!!! That everything in art is political in the loose sense
cos, if it's art, then it speaks of something to a number of people it speaks
of a view of the world and of the world we live in. Just an instance to say:
art and straightforward political preaching don't go together; art and a view
of the world are inseparable.
> However, it's appropriate you should bring up Picasso's painting, because
> there is a song on the new Manics album called, you've guessed it,
> "Guernica".
>
> See, that's my point. Noel's probably never even heard of Picasso's
> painting, whereas the Manics have just written a song about it.
Well I know who I prefer of the two. Cos if I wanna hear about the war then I
go to other sources than rock music for god's sake! I can't stand overtly
political music. It's not an added value that makes it better than just
purely *good* music, is it?
>That means
> all those impressionable Manics fans who've never seen the painting before
> now have the perfect opportunity to find out what it looks like, thus seeing
> the true "cruelty of war" as you put it. How is that going to happen by a
> few spotty oiks listening to "Fuckin' In The Bushes"?
I'd prefer people to hear this song instead because it's a great tune, what's
this crap about "spotty oiks", so you think all Oasis fans are idiots cos
they'll never get a political preaching from Noel while Manics fan should be
privileged to get educated in recent history during a concert? Spare me!
Guernica is one of the most famous paintings in the world, certainly a lot
more famous than the Manics themselves, if someone made it through school
they probably have heard of it or seen it on any history or art textbook. God
save us from bands preaching to the masses, please.
David Yates
news:99qc3s$2ck61$1...@ID-66014.news.dfncis.de...
> and so is the new one if people are willing to listen...
>
like fuck it is....