NIN Killing American Culture!
W...@w2.interramp.com
Found this in today's NY City Daily Snooze tabloid--
According to John Leo, in a column called *At the Barrel's Bottom
It's Slime Warner*: Time Warner is the corporation doing the *most
to lower standards and further degrade what's left of American
culture* because among other things:
*From the rise of 2 Live Crew and Metallica through the national
uproar over Ice-T's cop-kiling lyrics, down to Snoop Doggy Dogg, NINE
INCH NAILS, and Tupac Shakur, the sprawling Time Warner musical
empire has been associated one way or another with most of the
high-profile, high-profit acts, black and white, that are pumping
nihilism into the culture.*
Later on in this editorial, this Leo guy writes:
*Last week Time Warner bought another chunk of Interscope, the
hottest record company around, and now owns 50%. This is the
cultural equivalent of owning half the world's mustard gas factories.
One Interscope talent, Nine Inch Nails, sings about self- loathing,
sexual obsessions, torture, suicide and dismemberment.*
Of course, that's why we love 'em. (so much impact for such a tiny
little band). NIN: Bringing down American culture as we listen.
W2
Chris Wiberg
> *Last week Time Warner bought another chunk of Interscope, the
> hottest record company around, and now owns 50%. This is the
> cultural equivalent of owning half the world's mustard gas factories.
> One Interscope talent, Nine Inch Nails, sings about self- loathing,
> sexual obsessions, torture, suicide and dismemberment.*
>
> Of course, that's why we love 'em. (so much impact for such a tiny
> little band). NIN: Bringing down American culture as we listen.
So like, what part of American culture is NIN bringing down? I guess it
must be the invaluable Rush Limbaugh/Pat Robertson/Charlton Heston part.
Damn. I KNEW that music was dangerous!
******************************************************************************
CHRIS WIBERG (writer, still eating crunchy peanut butter, so back off, pal)
*Homepage* http://ux5.cso.uiuc.edu/~wiberg (music, original writing, etc.)
"Everything dies baby that's a fact but maybe everything that dies
someday comes back Put your makeup on and fix your hair real pretty and
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*CAT MACHINE* WWW Literary Magazine http://ux5.cso.uiuc.edu/~c-cook/cat
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Dirk Ellis
: Found this in today's NY City Daily Snooze tabloid--
: W2
Thanks for this... and it is these people who write, and talk about the
articles <Politicians, Reporters, activists, etc...>, that should be the
most feared when it comes to this stuff... because they're obviously
missing the point, and I feel bad for them. It's a damn shame! So
everyone take special care when you run into people like this, they are
the most likely to take your bodies and store them in their freezer....
Dirk....
NHorton69
I think American culture sucks. American culture is already at it's
bottom. How could a wonderful person like Trent ever bring it down. And
how many of you listeners have ever tried to do be like Trent anyway.
Lisa Livingston
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
And once again we can count on the "media"(I use that term real
loosely) to miss the point.
Art is a reflection of culture...therefore NIN being Art,
is reflecting our cultures obsession with self loathing, sexual
obsession, suicide, and dismemberment. I would say that our
culture has some serious problems not our art...our art tells our
stories as a culture...Trent tells us about his own personal hell,
and a vast majority of us can identify with it...scary huh?
of course this Leo person no doubt listens to Barney as well :)
Also, may I point out that is becoming popular to blame the
ills of the world on specific bands (not just rock in general anymore)
Trent hasn't done anything trememdously different in the last 5 years
except become popular...therefore, he's the guy to hate right now...
sheesh...what a godawful position to be in...if you think about it
procyon (who thinks the entire world has gone insane)
Lisa Livingston
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Long Live Dangerous Music!!!
(God forbid you should actually think...)
procyon (who thinks the world has gone totally insane)
guy_from_canada
"God is dead and no one cares if there is a hell I'll see you there?"
they can't be doing anything to make it better.
They probably don't realize the affect they have on young americans,
or maybe they do and just don't care. I'm happy i don't live in America
right now anyway.
Tripp Cox
|I agree that American culture isn't the best but with lyrics like
| "God is dead and no one cares if there is a hell I'll see you there?"
| they can't be doing anything to make it better.
|They probably don't realize the affect they have on young americans,
| or maybe they do and just don't care. I'm happy i don't live in
America
|right now anyway.
I'm glad you don't too. There is no fucking American culture. We have no
morals, awareness, or commonality. I submit that America is made up of
many vastly different cultures, and that Nine Inch Nails will affect
people of different cultures in different ways. I also think that if
anyone were to change their values based upon what NIN produces, then it
won't be enough people to make any difference. If you can't listen to
"Your God is dead, and no one cares." without killing your parents, then
you're probably the result of a typical American upbringing. Don't love
yourself, don't love me, and certainly don't love your brother. Fuck this
country and all of you who try to impose your self-righteous bullshit
upon us. Nine Inch Nails does tenfold more good for most of us than bad.
Most of us had low morals and self-esteem to begin with.
ą Tripp
ą http://www.mindspring.com/~halo69
I wake up wanting you,
but somehow you're rarely there. - Prick
Benjamin Stone
Gosh, it sure is nice to see you have the guts to list your real address
with your post. I really admire people who lack the courage to back their
convictions. Not that I'm taking your post seriously, that is. Had you
had some sort of interesting argument, reasoning, or some redeeming
factor, i might have given a rat's ass. Did you ever consider that for
some of us relating to the lyrics of NIN are actually HELPFUL?! My God,
not that! Oh, that reminds me, as far as the "Your God is dead, and no
one cares. If there is a hell, I'll see you there," is concerned, it
doesn't bug me that much. Then again, i have a hard time believing in God.
I suppose if there is, then the second half of that verse is right, eh?
Anyway, quiet flame mode off, and go crawl back under your rock you
gutless sack of yak vomit.
kisskiss
Benjamin "God is just dog spelled backwards" sTone
"God is dead"
-Nietzsche <---- Ironically enough, the t-shirt i'm wearing
"Nietzsche is dead." <---- right now says that. Isn't fate grand?
-God
Robert Svihla
i'm happy you don't live in america too you spineless pile of dog shit
JESSE MICHAEL FALK
who the fuck let Gingrich back in? let's dig up McCarthy and go get
Farrakhan from the water cooler.. I think we found a poster boy for
Aryan Amerikkka. ya whiny li'l bitch, if you don't think about what you
type, you won't be able to improve your credit rating EVER. because as we
all know it's idiots like you who wind up as street muck. ignorance will
send you straight into the societal shitter.
oh, fuck, i thought i was in heaven. nevermind about that ignorance
stuff, you just "stay the course" ya fuckin' sod. but remeber, i helped
you so i'll expect my percentage. legally, it's mine already. look it up.
JESSE MICHAEL FALK
: kisskiss
"To be or not to be.." -Aristotle, Plato, etc. etc.
whoop whoop la la
"God, Magod" -me, and think about that one. i didn't.
JESSE MICHAEL FALK
it's getting harder and harder to keep that drug-perpetuated fingernail
grip on reality <that, as y'all know, is what makes a world leader> when
the anti-shopping pills go up for sale, and that the shoe-polish machine
is still the stupidest-looking thing to exist anywhere ever.
Adam Christian Schwenk
Christ, what is this?
You know, for years, the American population has taken its licks
right and left from snotty foreign countries. We are constantly
criticized, humiliated and treated like SHIT throughout the world.
But the funny thing is, without us, this whole frigging world
would go to hell. That's because we instill something in our country
that the majority of the rest of the world don't...and that's hope.
In US you have a chance to make a name for yourself, a chance to
work hard and be something. In various parts of the world, you'd NEVER
get that chance, no matter how hard you work at it.
Our country has more frigging culture and CLASS than most out
there. We may not have some useless fucking traditions dating thousands
of years, but we do have values and beliefs of our own. It just makes me
sick when I hear people say, 'America has no culture...' leading on as if
the US sucks. And then you find out those people don't even live here.
Now HOW the Christ do you know we have no culture, by watching Baywatch
(which, incidentally, is one of the hottest international shows....yeah,
that's what we do with our lives, although 3/4 of the American population
probably doesn't even live near a fucking ocean....)
We have CREATED what this world is now...and I'm not *about* to
be modest about that. Granted, we do have our flaws, as ALL countries
do, but before you slam the shit out of us, realize we have MANY
redeeming qualities.
(grrrr....am I pissed....)
--
we've been through faith breakdown self hurt plastics collections self
help self pain guest psychics f*ck off i was central i had control i lost
my head i need this...crazy all the lovers have been tagged- REM
:+:+:adam:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:asch...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:
C-ko Linde
> >I agree that American culture isn't the best but with lyrics like
> > "God is dead and no one cares if there is a hell I'll see you there?"
> > they can't be doing anything to make it better.
> >They probably don't realize the affect they have on young americans,
> > or maybe they do and just don't care. I'm happy i don't live in
> America
> >right now anyway.
>
> i'm happy you don't live in america too you spineless pile of dog shit
Gee, one of the things I love and respect the most from NIN is how
'universal' the lyrics are!
Most, if not all, are about relationships (and their various destructive
tendencies), differing and changing views of self-worth and self-hate, and
depression. And, I think everyone on the planet, American, Canadian,
Indian, Chinese, etc., has experienced a fucked up relationship or really
depressing period in their lives that could be possibly reflected by a NIN
song. I'm sure there are people in Kenya who self-hate and could relate to
'Hurt', for example, or people betrayed by organized religion in New
Zealand who would probably get into 'Heresy'.
The point I'm trying to make is that this xenophobic 'My Country Is
Better Than Your Country USA Sucks' shit is really annoying and IMHO
really dosen't have a place here. Yeah, some whiny NY Post reporter who
probably hates NIN wrote some really shallow and asinine piece on 'NIN
And American Culture', thinking it really witty, or at least a good way to
kill some inches of newsprint. Rip on THAT, then.
I sense this big 'USA Rocks vs. USA Sucks' a.m.nin fistfuck beginning to
form, and it's just going to waste a LOT of bandwidth and newsreading
time. And this will suck.
Let's all just get together in one big multinational NIN moshpit and
whine, bitch, be depressed, and really pissed off TOGETHER as one big
dysfunctional cyberfamily!
Flame my butt, I don't care. I've seen these same type of threads on
alt.music.rush and alt.music.canada, and they're always pointless.
C-ko (essay mode off :) )
--
Clairol Nice 'n Easy 124 - Natural Blue Black - Level 3, Permanent.
- Not just a hair dye, a way of life - lad...@msn.fullfeed.com
C-ko Linde http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/ladycko
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nicholas William Zinser
>> I don't think NIN is bringing down American culture at all. Besides that
>> I think American culture sucks. American culture is already at it's
>> bottom. How could a wonderful person like Trent ever bring it down. And
>> how many of you listeners have ever tried to do be like Trent anyway.
>>
>>>>>
>I agree that American culture isn't the best but with lyrics like
> "God is dead and no one cares if there is a hell I'll see you there?"
> they can't be doing anything to make it better.
And how is writing/performing said lyrics making American culture worse?
You've posted twice in a row now about how that one line from Heresy is
cause for condemnation since it's "satanic".
I don't see how writing about how dandy god is and praising jesus is any
better than saying that god is dead.
>They probably don't realize the affect they have on young americans,
> or maybe they do and just don't care.
What kind of effect are these lyrics having on people anyway?
Oooh...they're "satanic". Guess what? Just because somebody says that
god is dead, doesn't mean that it's a satanic statement. It seems that
too many people (like Guy from Canada) believe that if someone doesn't
believe in god, then that person is a satanist. Didn't we go through
this back in the '80's with the PMRC?
To Guy in Canada: Listen to "No More Cocoons" by Jello Biafra. Pay
close attention to what he says regarding DK being satanical. That might
clear up some things for you...
> I'm happy i don't live in America right now anyway.
So am I...
By presenting an opinion contrary to the accepted culture, NIN is not
being satanic. However, people such as yourself are looking for
scapegoats regarding the downfall of American culture and anything that
is not Apple-Pie-Eating, Flag-Waving, Yellow-Ribbon-Wearing, or
Jesus-loving is the cause of all evil in the world. I think that the
suppression of ideas to the contrary is what has caused our culture to
deteriorate because we're now discovering that all of the ideas that
should be good are just as corrupt as those that have been kept down for
so many years...
BTW, what's with this (guy from canada) thing anyway? Too embarrassed to
leave your e-mail?
Nick
zin...@oxy.edu
"I've got this real moron thing I do...it's called THINKING!"-George Carlin
Daffern Maura C
: I agree that American culture isn't the best but with lyrics like
: "God is dead and no one cares if there is a hell I'll see you there?"
: they can't be doing anything to make it better.
: They probably don't realize the affect they have on young americans,
: or maybe they do and just don't care. I'm happy i don't live in America
: right now anyway.
My, oh my... i am sorry to see that people like you have taken to
representing Canada on the net. Do you realize that while Canadian
culture is distinctly different from that of the states's, we are still
profoundly influenced by them? Face it dear, we all may as well be living
in the US because the differences between the two countries cultures are
very slight indeed. Think about it... its not just American culture, its
North American culture, which Canada is an integral part of. And why do
you think that anything that influences the states would not influence us
in Canada? Are we not exposed to all the same music and media? I am
proud to be Canadian, i will admit to that... but i do not feel that this
pride gives me license to slander another country. Re-evaluate your
position.
-Maura
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Its all very stupid. Like why do you park on driveways and drive on
parkways? That's deep." - My Crazee Professor
"Cool's eternal, but its always dated" -fugazi
Dancing on Cloud Nine...
Maura Christina Daffern, 3m...@qlink.queensu.ca :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dirk Ellis
: My, oh my... i am sorry to see that people like you have taken to
: representing Canada on the net. Do you realize that while Canadian
: culture is distinctly different from that of the states's, we are still
: profoundly influenced by them? Face it dear, we all may as well be living
: in the US because the differences between the two countries cultures are
: very slight indeed. Think about it... its not just American culture, its
: North American culture, which Canada is an integral part of. And why do
: you think that anything that influences the states would not influence us
: in Canada? Are we not exposed to all the same music and media? I am
: proud to be Canadian, i will admit to that... but i do not feel that this
: pride gives me license to slander another country. Re-evaluate your
: position.
: -Maura
Oh no! not another Canada/US debate is it? Well, I might as well offer
my stance... It is somewhat true that Canada is more identity focused,
while America is more "Conformity" focused <American Patriotism can not
be topped!>... but the countries are very different.. yet the same.
Canadaian music <Tragically Hip is a prime example>.. has a different
feel than American, and Canadian masses as a whole listen to different
music than the US... I dunno if gangsta rap is that big up here... and I
don't really hear much in the ways of R&B all the time.
TV is very different up here too. Canadian broadcasting <although many
may say it's lower quality> does have a different focus... not
necessarily more cultured... but I've noticed that Canadian TV avoids
violence where as American TV goes to extremes with it.... I've also
noticed that Canadian TV is more lenient about what they will allow to be
shown... actually, radio too!
Now the similarities... well, we are greatly influenced by the US, with
movies, television, and then finally music... more the first two thought,
because Canada has not come into their own with either of the former
mediums. And the problem I have with becoming too associated <although
we are way beyond that> with the US, is that people believe that we are
all os a sudden part of the US... I like being a Canadian thank you very
much!
I always though we were a lot like the British... but what do I know?
Well, there are my random blatherings... they probably haven't cleared up
anything... but I thought it was nice to see some of the differences and
similarities... entertainment wise that is....
Dirk.... who has Kylie Minogue on the mind... ahhhh!
James Eoff
On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Chris Wiberg wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 1995 W...@w2.interramp.com wrote:
>
> > *Last week Time Warner bought another chunk of Interscope, the
> > hottest record company around, and now owns 50%. This is the
> > cultural equivalent of owning half the world's mustard gas factories.
> > One Interscope talent, Nine Inch Nails, sings about self- loathing,
> > sexual obsessions, torture, suicide and dismemberment.*
> >
> > Of course, that's why we love 'em. (so much impact for such a tiny
> > little band). NIN: Bringing down American culture as we listen.
>
> So like, what part of American culture is NIN bringing down? I guess it
> must be the invaluable Rush Limbaugh/Pat Robertson/Charlton Heston part.
> Damn. I KNEW that music was dangerous!
Did anyone catch G. Gordon Liddy complaining about the NIN cover of 'Dead
Souls,' as an example of contemporary music? (Come on now, he was in
prison through most of the 70's) Actually, I think that Liddy could
probably get into HLAH.
love
jim
c.s.y.
does one compare different cultures against? It's too late for any of us
to make a true measure, simply because being at one particular place at
one particular time (the time can be, oh a few minutes) taints our
absolute objectivity and all that brouhaha.
In any case, there are amazing things in U.S. culture, just gotta look
deeper. Etc. I can't measure with a glance, or the most skimmed
impression (glancing at U.S. mainstream, I can see how one may be kinda
sickened).
In any case (the second time), NIN cannot kill american culture because,
well, culture is in and of itself (is that written correctly?). Any
non-existence of culture is still culture.
Then again, y'all already know this shit so I'll stop...
--
"...put a pick in one hand and a guitar in the other and with a tiny movement rule the world..." --David Fair c.s.y. = bo...@nwu.edu
Jennifer Taylor
> Christ, what is this?
> You know, for years, the American population has taken its licks
> right and left from snotty foreign countries. We are constantly
> criticized, humiliated and treated like SHIT throughout the world.
> But the funny thing is, without us, this whole frigging world
> would go to hell.
Yeah, millions of Vietnamese would never have died - the world would be a
total disaster area, eww i don't want to think about it.
> That's because we instill something in our country
> that the majority of the rest of the world don't...and that's hope.
If this were the case, then why on earth do you think you tend to be so
despised? You don't think it would be the 'hey isn't America great'
attitude that some of you have that does it do you?
> In US you have a chance to make a name for yourself, a chance to
> work hard and be something. In various parts of the world, you'd NEVER
> get that chance, no matter how hard you work at it.
> Our country has more frigging culture and CLASS
Class?
> than most out
> there. We may not have some useless fucking traditions dating
> thousands of years,
Post settler America has not been around for thousands of years, but you
certainly have traditions going back as far as you do - turkeys at
thanksgiving is one that springs to mind...
> but we do have values and beliefs of our own. It
> just makes me sick when I hear people say, 'America has no culture...'
> leading on as if the US sucks. And then you find out those people
> don't even live here. Now HOW the Christ do you know we have no
> culture,
My mother's American but I don't think anyone could deny you have a
culture.
> We have CREATED what this world is now...
That's questionable, but even assuming that you have, the world now is a
total disaster and not something to be proud of.
> and I'm not *about* to
> be modest about that. Granted, we do have our flaws, as ALL countries
> do, but before you slam the shit out of us, realize we have MANY
> redeeming qualities.
Exactly, who could possible question the utter brilliance of American
football or caffeine free coke? And who could argue that American
football is basically rugby, but with everyone in padding?
> (grrrr....am I pissed....)
I assume you mean pissed off: pissed means drunk.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate America, I have a lot of American
friends and relatives, but it is your sort of attitude that winds people
up. America is _not_ the land of the free and the home of the brave, if
indeed it ever were. I think that the reason it is sometimes despised is
because of its overbearing and superior attitude in regard to other
countries, an example of which you have just demonstrated.
NIN are not going to destroy your culture, like Natural Born Killers they
are more likely a product of it.
Brian Corbett
> Robert Svihla (rsv...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : i'm happy you don't live in america too you spineless pile of dog shit
JESSE MICHAEL FALK (jf...@sfsu.edu) wrote:
> who the fuck let Gingrich back in? let's dig up McCarthy and go get
> Farrakhan from the water cooler.. I think we found a poster boy for
> Aryan Amerikkka. ya whiny li'l bitch, if you don't think about what you
> type, you won't be able to improve your credit rating EVER. because as we
> all know it's idiots like you who wind up as street muck. ignorance will
> send you straight into the societal shitter.
> oh, fuck, i thought i was in heaven. nevermind about that ignorance
> stuff, you just "stay the course" ya fuckin' sod. but remeber, i helped
> you so i'll expect my percentage. legally, it's mine already. look it up.
Who is this guy? He walks in, flames people, makes either crass or
inept remarks, then leaves. Has this FALK guy ever said anything
intelligent? I doubt it and I believe that so do the rest of our fine
readership. If you have nothing constructive to say, don't say it.
Maybe his mother did LSD to term or something...Just a theory. I
encourage any and all others to add your opinion.
Inexperienced but hardly weak,
Brian aka PALADIN (the fallen knight who now has a crusade)
>======================================================================<
/ Brian Corbett (a.k.a. PALADIN) \
/ Architecture Student Extraordinaire \
/ Where to reply: bcor...@chat.carleton.ca \
>======================================================================<
"My moral standing is lying down" Halo 2:9
"I will make you hurt..." Halo 8:14
>======================================================================<
MC Death
> Daffern Maura C (3m...@qlink.queensu.ca) wrote:
>
> : My, oh my... i am sorry to see that people like you have taken to
> : [truncated]
> : pride gives me license to slander another country. Re-evaluate your
> : position.
> : -Maura
>
> Oh no! not another Canada/US debate is it? Well, I might as well offer
> similarities... entertainment wise that is....
> [eradicated]
> Dirk.... who has Kylie Minogue on the mind... ahhhh!
* whatever you Canucks do in this thread, just keep me and Taylor out of
this, okay? i don't want any of Taylor's Love Missiles F1-11 directed my
way...
...hey taylor, if you nuke me, there goes all the world's supply of Big
Red! So think before you bomb me... :)
obNIN: so, does Trent hate Front Line Assembly's music because they're
Canadian? ;)
m.c.d., "Bon Jovi could kick Loverboy's ass anyday..."
Adam Christian Schwenk
Jennifer Taylor <jen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>Yeah, millions of Vietnamese would never have died - the world would be a
>total disaster area, eww i don't want to think about it.
Oh, boy....here we go. UK, huh? You *do* know my grandmother
came from the UK? And that she became an American citizen. Maybe some
people like to see for themselves what this country is about. I'm sick
of the bullshit that many people in various parts of the world spew forth
about the US. Tell me, Jennifer, have you ever BEEN here? Oh, and by
the way, you ever wonder why you're speaking english instead of, say,
German? Or why the US dropped all bills Europe owed us after the World
Wars...causing *us* to have a deficit that we haven't been able to pay
off since then?
I had a German exchange student girlfriend once. She told me how
the US is viewed there. Her friends couldn't understand why she was
going to the states. I heard the various insults and shit that we're
called from there. It's funny, do you know how many derogatory terms
they have in Europe of us US citizens in comparison of what we have here
of Europeans? Kind of funny, you know. Seems to me that Europe is
*very* jealous of _something_. You want to explain to me what that is,
Jennifer??
>If this were the case, then why on earth do you think you tend to be so
>despised? You don't think it would be the 'hey isn't America great'
>attitude that some of you have that does it do you?
I don't know. You tell me. Maybe because we DO have a higher
quality of living here in the US. We only pay 30% in taxes...how much
does the UK force people there to pay? 60% or so?? I wonder what the
hell's wrong with being proud of your country. I never slammed anyone
else's here, but I *constantly* see the insults being thrown at
us...especially by ignorant people such as yourself.
The other day, I was reading on rec.music.tori-amos, and one guy
from Africa was talking about how beautiful the evening was in his area.
He asked the US people on the list what we think of stars....have we ever
seen them with all the smog in the sky? Well, there's no smog in my
area...I can see stars just fine. It's these very warped senses of what
things are like here.
>> In US you have a chance to make a name for yourself, a chance to
>> work hard and be something. In various parts of the world, you'd NEVER
>> get that chance, no matter how hard you work at it.
>> Our country has more frigging culture and CLASS
>Class?
(couldn't respond to the paragraph before that could you?)
Yeah, I think I have a *lot* of class. I think there are many of
us who really do. Maybe your definition is different, but I think it
takes a LOT of class to be so willing to open our country to other
foreign people. Before you begin spewing forth about our racism here,
you do realize racism is everywhere. It has absolutely nothing to do
with our country, but with people themselves....
>Post settler America has not been around for thousands of years, but you
>certainly have traditions going back as far as you do - turkeys at
>thanksgiving is one that springs to mind...
Ummm....we haven't been around for thousands of years, dear.
Count them years up....
>My mother's American but I don't think anyone could deny you have a
>culture.
Damn straight, and whose right is it to say your culture is
better than ours? I think you're being to frigging steretypical here,
Jennifer....
>> We have CREATED what this world is now...
>That's questionable, but even assuming that you have, the world now is a
>total disaster and not something to be proud of.
It's not questionable. At all....think. Without the US, I'd
think the UK would still be a monarchy. wouldn't you? We've caused HUGE
changes throughout the world (some bad, but a *lot* good...) Funny
thing, though, is that we've been volunteered the reigns of world peace
keeper, but everyone hates us for this.
I'll be stereotypical here myself. From what I've seen on the
net, many Europeans tend to be snotty, ignorant, holier-than-thou
assholes, who can't see beyond the front of their own noses. I wonder,
Jennifer, what your mother would say if she knew what you wrote here?
You think she'd be pleased? I love my country thank you. I had a lot of
respect for Europeans before I discovered the net. Matter of fact, one
of my greatest desires was to visit Europe. Then I find out how
Americans are treated there, and I have no desire to go.
What I say, is fuck Europe, fuck everyone, and take care of
ourselves, as every country on this rock seems to be doing these days.
It's a shame, when we all could be doing so well with each other. I have
a different value system than you Jennifer...what right do you have to
criticize it? And also, do you really think the value system is all that
different from yours? Not really...
>Exactly, who could possible question the utter brilliance of American
>football or caffeine free coke? And who could argue that American
>football is basically rugby, but with everyone in padding?
Yeah, I guess we believe our athletes should survive the game...
Caffeine free coke is fine by me (don't drink it myself.) I
think Europe is sooo seduced by their ability to agree with each other on
one hate, the US, that they tend to forget they hate each other. My
german girlfriend went to France for a couple of weeks and hated it
because of the attitudes there....
>> (grrrr....am I pissed....)
>I assume you mean pissed off: pissed means drunk.
To you it does, hon. Lingo's very different....
>Don't get me wrong, I don't hate America, I have a lot of American
>friends and relatives, but it is your sort of attitude that winds people
>up. America is _not_ the land of the free and the home of the brave, if
>indeed it ever were. I think that the reason it is sometimes despised is
>because of its overbearing and superior attitude in regard to other
>countries, an example of which you have just demonstrated.
NO! My 'demonstration' was supporting the US. Seems I'm the
only one here who has the balls to remain loyal to my country.
>NIN are not going to destroy your culture, like Natural Born Killers they
>are more likely a product of it.
And if you saw beyong NBK you'd realize it's the media this show
was attacking and not condoning violent behavior. Yet, you really can't
see beyond that. I've seen some pretty violent shit come out of Europe
as well, so you really have no right to claim this....
Think before you say things Jennifer. You've gotta realize the
US is here...to stay. And I don't remember the last time I had superior
attitude over someone in another country unless they insulted my
country. That's a pretty shitty thing to do. I didn't start this....
--
'the blind have been blessed with security...' nin
'take a trip on a rocket ship baby where the sea is the sky..' tori amos
(wanna trade boot copies? just finger me for information....)
Daffern Maura C
: Oh no! not another Canada/US debate is it? Well, I might as well offer
: while America is more "Conformity" focused <American Patriotism can not
: be topped!>... but the countries are very different.. yet the same.
: Canadaian music <Tragically Hip is a prime example>.. has a different
: feel than American, and Canadian masses as a whole listen to different
: music than the US...
That is true... i think that many canadians are very loyal to
canadian bands, television programs and other aspects of canadian
culture: they are important parts of canadian culture, and we need them
to differentiate us from american culture. But regardless of how
involved we get in canadian culture, we are still innundated with
material from south of the border.
I dunno if gangsta rap is that big up here... and I
: don't really hear much in the ways of R&B all the time.
Well, it depends on where you live. In Toronto, that type of
music is *huge*. I mean, you should see my brother's high school...
gangsta rap practically rules there. And while that particlutar genre was
not popular when i was in high school, many other types of similar music
were prevalent. It could have to do with southern ontario's proximity to
the US... it could be much more influenced by american media and culture
than the rest of Canada. Half of the television channels here are
american...
: TV is very different up here too. Canadian broadcasting <although many
: may say it's lower quality> does have a different focus... not
: necessarily more cultured... but I've noticed that Canadian TV avoids
: violence where as American TV goes to extremes with it.... I've also
: noticed that Canadian TV is more lenient about what they will allow to be
: shown... actually, radio too!
: Now the similarities... well, we are greatly influenced by the US, with
: movies, television, and then finally music... more the first two thought,
: because Canada has not come into their own with either of the former
: mediums. And the problem I have with becoming too associated <although
: we are way beyond that> with the US, is that people believe that we are
: all os a sudden part of the US... I like being a Canadian thank you very
: much!
Same here... i *love* being canadian, and i am a devoted fan of
many canadian bands and programming... i miss kids in the hall, this hour
has 22 minutes is an ok supplement, though...
: I always though we were a lot like the British... but what do I know?
Well, i am British, born there, raised here since the age of 3,
and my parents have extremely british attitudes, so i can't comment on
that one, as i have a rather biased point of view.
: Well, there are my random blatherings... they probably haven't cleared up
: anything... but I thought it was nice to see some of the differences and
: similarities... entertainment wise that is....
: Dirk.... who has Kylie Minogue on the mind... ahhhh!
You're scary, dirk...
-maura
Jennifer Taylor
> In article <D65xs...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
> Jennifer Taylor <jen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Yeah, millions of Vietnamese would never have died - the world would
> be a >total disaster area, eww i don't want to think about it.
>
> Oh, boy....here we go. UK, huh? You *do* know my grandmother
> came from the UK?
Oh yes, as I recall, this seemed to be the one and only reason that you
could come up with as to how you knew more about the current British
music scene than the British themselves.
> And that she became an American citizen. Maybe some
> people like to see for themselves what this country is about.
Yes and? My mother lived there and moved away, so on that point we're
even.
> I'm sick
> of the bullshit that many people in various parts of the world spew
> forth about the US. Tell me, Jennifer, have you ever BEEN here?
Of _course_ I've 'BEEN' there, I've been going there since I was 6 months
old, credit me with more sense than to start criticising a place I've
never been to.
> Oh,
> and by the way, you ever wonder why you're speaking english instead of,
> say, German?
It wouldn't be because the Germans couldn't invade would it?
> Or why the US dropped all bills Europe owed us after the
> World Wars...
Because they would never get paid back perhaps?
> causing *us* to have a deficit that we haven't been able
> to pay off since then?
Mmmm? So?
> It's funny, do you know
> how many derogatory terms they have in Europe of us US citizens in
> comparison of what we have here of Europeans?
No, should I?
> Kind of funny, you know.
No not especially.
> Seems to me that Europe is *very* jealous of _something_. You want to
> explain to me what that is, Jennifer??
No I think you'll find, as I have already said, that the reason you are
disliked is because of your attitude. What on earth would we have to be
jealous _of_? Some great bands - yeah, maybe; and er....any suggestions?
> >If this were the case, then why on earth do you think you tend to be
> so >despised? You don't think it would be the 'hey isn't America
>great' >attitude that some of you have that does it do you?
>
> I don't know. You tell me.
Alright, it _is_.
> Maybe because we DO have a higher
> quality of living here in the US. We only pay 30% in taxes...how much
> does the UK force people there to pay? 60% or so??
30% of what? Your income? Our standard rate is 25%. Or do you mean VAT?
> I wonder what the hell's wrong with being proud of your country.
Nothing's wrong with it, but there is a big difference between being
proud of your country and being obnoxious - which, I'm afraid, is how you
are coming across.
> I never slammed anyone
> else's here, but I *constantly* see the insults being thrown at
> us...especially by ignorant people such as yourself.
Ignorant? In what way?
> The other day, I was reading on rec.music.tori-amos, and one guy
> from Africa was talking about how beautiful the evening was in his
> area. He asked the US people on the list what we think of
> stars....have we ever seen them with all the smog in the sky? Well,
> there's no smog in my area...I can see stars just fine. It's these
> very warped senses of what things are like here.
Yes? And?
> >> In US you have a chance to make a name for yourself, a chance
> > to >work hard and be something. In various parts of the world, you'd
> > NEVER >get that chance, no matter how hard you work at it. >>
> > > Our country has more frigging culture and CLASS >Class?
>
> (couldn't respond to the paragraph before that could you?)
It seemed a rather ridiculous statement that didn't need commenting on if
you must know.
> Yeah, I think I have a *lot* of class. I think there are many of
> us who really do. Maybe your definition is different, but I think it
> takes a LOT of class to be so willing to open our country to other
> foreign people.
I think we have a _very_ different definition.
> Before you begin spewing forth about our racism here,
> you do realize racism is everywhere. It has absolutely nothing to do
> with our country, but with people themselves....
Did I mention racism?
> >Post settler America has not been around for thousands of years, but
> you >certainly have traditions going back as far as you do - turkeys at
> >thanksgiving is one that springs to mind...
>
> Ummm....we haven't been around for thousands of years, dear.
> Count them years up....
Which is why I said, and I quote, "Post settler America has not been
around for thousands of years". Next time read the comment.
> >My mother's American but I don't think anyone could deny you have a
> >culture.
>
> Damn straight, and whose right is it to say your culture is
> better than ours?
Did I say that? I think you'll find I didn't. Stop looking for an
argument.
> I think you're being to frigging steretypical here, Jennifer....
In what way?
> >> We have CREATED what this world is now...
> >That's questionable, but even assuming that you have, the world now is
> a >total disaster and not something to be proud of.
>
> It's not questionable. At all....think. Without the US, I'd
> think the UK would still be a monarchy.
The UK _IS_ a monarchy. And you have the nerve to call _me_ ignorant.
> HUGE changes throughout the world (some bad, but a *lot* good...)
Name a good change.
> Funny thing, though, is that we've been volunteered the reigns of world
> peace keeper, but everyone hates us for this.
The US as a world peace keeper? I pray for the future....
> I'll be stereotypical here myself.
Implying that I have been? And in what way exactly have I been
stereotyping?
> From what I've seen on the
> net, many Europeans tend to be snotty, ignorant, holier-than-thou
> assholes, who can't see beyond the front of their own noses.
But you have never actually been to Europe am I right?
> I wonder,
> Jennifer, what your mother would say if she knew what you wrote here?
> You think she'd be pleased?
I don't think she would care, she doesn't like the States.
> I love my country thank you. I had a lot
> of respect for Europeans before I discovered the net. Matter of fact,
> one of my greatest desires was to visit Europe. Then I find out how
> Americans are treated there, and I have no desire to go. What I
say,
> is fuck Europe, fuck everyone, and take care of ourselves, as every
> country on this rock seems to be doing these days. It's a shame, when
> we all could be doing so well with each other.
Perhaps we would all get on better if people like you did not suddenly
start claiming that their country is responsible for the current state of
the planet.
> I have a different
> value system than you Jennifer...what right do you have to criticize
> it?
Did I criticise it? Perhaps you could quote just exactly at which point
I criticised it.
> And also, do you really think the value system is all that
> different from yours? Not really...
As far as I am aware I did not mention your 'system of values' at all.
Did you actually read more than the first line of my comment?
> >Exactly, who could possible question the utter brilliance of American
> >football or caffeine free coke? And who could argue that American
> >football is basically rugby, but with everyone in padding?
>
> Yeah, I guess we believe our athletes should survive the game...
Survive the game? Do you think we have dead rugby players littering the
pitches?
> Caffeine free coke is fine by me (don't drink it myself.) I
> think Europe is sooo seduced by their ability to agree with each other
> on one hate, the US, that they tend to forget they hate each other. My
> german girlfriend went to France for a couple of weeks and hated it
> because of the attitudes there....
Europeans hardly _ever_ agree, and if we are going to start generalising,
the French are despised considerably more than the Americans, but then
again I guess you wouldn't know that having never been here would you?
> >> (grrrr....am I pissed....)
> >I assume you mean pissed off: pissed means drunk.
>
> To you it does, hon. Lingo's very different....
No, it's not - you speak English, don't try and kid yourself - you may
not be able to spell it or pronounce it properly, and you may have had
the originality to call crisps chips, and chips fries. But don't try to
pretend it is a different language.
> >Don't get me wrong, I don't hate America, I have a lot of American
> >friends and relatives, but it is your sort of attitude that winds
> people >up. America is _not_ the land of the free and the home of the
> brave, if >indeed it ever were. I think that the reason it is
> sometimes despised is >because of its overbearing and superior attitude
> in regard to other >countries, an example of which you have just
> demonstrated.
>
> NO! My 'demonstration' was supporting the US.
Exactly - with that famous 'America has saved the world' attitude that is
_so_ irritating.
> Seems I'm the
> only one here who has the balls to remain loyal to my country.
It hardly takes courage to say you like your country.
> >NIN are not going to destroy your culture, like Natural Born Killers
> they >are more likely a product of it.
>
> And if you saw beyong NBK you'd realize it's the media this show
> was attacking and not condoning violent behavior.
Can you read? Did I say _anything_ about violent behaviour? NBK is
about the American media's fascination of serial killers and mass
murderers and such like and the general American public's willingness to
treat them like celebrities.
> Yet, you really
> can't see beyond that. I've seen some pretty violent shit come out of
> Europe as well, so you really have no right to claim this....
Claim _WHAT_??? Would you please stop putting words in my mouth and
address the points I have said, rather than making up your own to comment
to.
>
> Think before you say things Jennifer. You've gotta realize the
> US is here...to stay. And I don't remember the last time I had
> superior attitude over someone in another country unless they insulted
> my country.
So "snotty foreign countries" and "We have CREATED what this world is
now" is just your way of being friendly is it?
> That's a pretty shitty thing to do. I didn't start this....
So you are commenting to a reply to a message that was never written
right?
yeah._so.
asch...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu (Adam Christian Schwenk) wrote:
|In article <D65xs...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
|Jennifer Taylor <jen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
|
|>Yeah, millions of Vietnamese would never have died - the world would be
a
|>total disaster area, eww i don't want to think about it.
|
| Oh, boy....here we go. UK, huh? You *do* know my grandmother
|came from the UK?
Nazi.
<this thread is officially dead>
Adam Christian Schwenk
>In article <3lahe9$1u...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu>,
> asch...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu (Adam Christian Schwenk) wrote:
>|In article <D65xs...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
>|Jennifer Taylor <jen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>|
>|>Yeah, millions of Vietnamese would never have died - the world would be
>a
>|>total disaster area, eww i don't want to think about it.
>|
>| Oh, boy....here we go. UK, huh? You *do* know my grandmother
>|came from the UK?
>
>
>Nazi.
>
><this thread is officially dead>
What the fuck????? Nazi? I like the way you 'edited' the
message to try and make some kind of fucked up attempt to label someone.
Number one, she was talking about how the US 'invaded' Vietnam (against
the will of *many* US citizens)....I didn't respond to that message
because what she stated was true. BUT!!! The UK has done the same thing
in colonializing many parts of the world...
Man, you need to start reading the shit before jumping to
conclusions. You're the dumbest fuck I've seen here...
Tripp Cox
asch...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu (Adam Christian Schwenk) wrote:
|In article <3lat6a$eo0...@halo69.mindspring.com>, <Yeah. So.> wrote:
|>In article <3lahe9$1u...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu>,
|> asch...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu (Adam Christian Schwenk) wrote:
|>|In article <D65xs...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
|>|Jennifer Taylor <jen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
|>|
|>|>Yeah, millions of Vietnamese would never have died - the world would
be
|>a
|>|>total disaster area, eww i don't want to think about it.
|>|
|>| Oh, boy....here we go. UK, huh? You *do* know my grandmother
|>|came from the UK?
|>
|>Nazi.
|>
|><this thread is officially dead>
|
| What the fuck????? Nazi? I like the way you 'edited' the
|message to try and make some kind of fucked up attempt to label someone.
Listen you little insignificant puddle of runny dogshit, if you knew
anything about the nature of threads like the one you got involved in,
then you'd understand what the "Nazi" thing is. There is a documented
Usenet standard called Godwin's Law. Basically it states that once a
person is called a Nazi in a thread, then that thread is officially dead
for all intensive purposes. The way your discussion was headed, it
wouldn't be long before one of you called the other a Nazi. I was just
heading you off at the pass. This thread has degenerated into a
discussion of war ethics, which is completely inappropriate for a.m.n. If
you don't like it, take it to e-mail asswipe.
|Number one, she was talking about how the US 'invaded' Vietnam (against
|the will of *many* US citizens)....I didn't respond to that message
|because what she stated was true. BUT!!! The UK has done the same thing
|in colonializing many parts of the world...
I don't give a shit what you were trying to say. The point is that this
thread is on it's last legs. If you must keep it up, do it in e-mail.
Please!
| Man, you need to start reading the shit before jumping to
|conclusions. You're the dumbest fuck I've seen here...
Well, you obviously haven't been around for long, douchebag.
*****FLAME OFF*****
Adam Christian Schwenk
Tripp Cox <hal...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Listen you little insignificant puddle of runny dogshit, if you knew
>anything about the nature of threads like the one you got involved in,
>then you'd understand what the "Nazi" thing is. There is a documented
Oh that's nice...real nice...have to revert to insults and taunts
to prove your point, buddy? I've been on the 'net for quite a few years
now, and I sure as damn well knew what this thread was about. If you
*really* wanted this to be continued by email, you should have emailed
privately. By including the whole world, you've pretty much made
yourself look like an ass. If you don't like the fucking thread don't
read it. Otherwise go suck my left testicle you dumb fuck...
I didn't call anyone a nazi and neither did she, and I had no
intention of calling anyone anything like that. It was furthest from my
mind...
>Usenet standard called Godwin's Law. Basically it states that once a
Wow, shit. First time *I've* ever heard of it. And hell, I've
been on the 'net for some five years now....
>person is called a Nazi in a thread, then that thread is officially dead
>for all intensive purposes. The way your discussion was headed, it
>wouldn't be long before one of you called the other a Nazi. I was just
>heading you off at the pass. This thread has degenerated into a
Oh bullshit. Jumping to conclusions there, huh....
>discussion of war ethics, which is completely inappropriate for a.m.n. If
>you don't like it, take it to e-mail asswipe.
Yeah, follow your example, huh? Go to hell you stupid ass motherfucker.
>Please!
Oh, shit. A little decency here. Fuck, didn't know you had it
in you.
>Well, you obviously haven't been around for long, douchebag.
I'm willing to bet I've been around here for *much* longer than
you fuckhead.
Adam Christian Schwenk
By the way, I'm done saying what I've got to say, and with
reading this thread, so any followups to my posts are gonna be kind of
pointless...
(also, Tripp, you're in my killfile, so I don't really give a
shit what you say...)