Egyptian screening review
JAZZ4JEFF
They screened four episodes of the series from the 1969 ABC run. They
included new songs, replacing the original tunes from the NBC run.
They also pulled some rare Kool-aid commercials, including a two-
minute version I had never seen before. And, the Monkees on
“Happening” on ABC
After the screening, Andrew Sandoval hosted an interview & Q&A Dave
Evans, Bobby Hart, Keith Allison (from Paul Revere & the Raiders), and
three “Monkees girls”. As always, Andrew did a great job of putting
this together. Dave told stories about writing the Frodis caper with
Micky, and his work on a Nez pilot that was never made.
Everyone had great memories of the guys.
After show screening, I asked Andrew what was coming up next regarding
re-releases. He said he just finished work in the last few weeks on
the deluxe edition of “Birds, the bees, and the Monkees”. He said it
will be the best edition yet. He mentioned Rhino said it would be out
by the end of the year, but he did not think they would make that
deadline.
So, a great afternoon was had by all. I was surprised at the large
crowd at the theater. It’s always great to see interest in the guys
catg...@aol.com
Pity all Monkee fans couldn't have been there, but some great news
about the deluxe edition of "The Birds, the Bees and the Monkees"
forthcoming. Did Dave Evans give any clue as to what the Nez pilot was
about or the year the work was done? As for the CBS/ABC reruns of the
series, I'm rather surprised Rhino hasn't issued them on dvd because
of the interest being so high. The series, by the way, was rerun by
CBS from 1969 through 1972, when ABC picked up the option and aired
the series for another year. That two minute Kool Aid commercial, I
don't think was ever seen by anyone originally since commercials in
those days didn't run that long.
Ron Fowler
both are b&w.
JAZZ4JEFF
> Was the Happening ep in color? I've got it on a couple of tapes, but
> both are b&w.
No, it was black & white, with original commercials.
Jeff
Ron Fowler
programming was in color by 1968/69? (sorry, that was almost before my
time :). Great news about BBM, there is hope! Keith Allison sure seems
to keep busy these days. I've heard he is part of an LA bar band with
Waddy Wachtell. Also saw him speak at Drake Levin's memorial a few
months ago, great guy.
JAZZ4JEFF
Last time Micky played Southern California, Keith came out at the end
and played two songs with him. He mentioned he was originally very
good friends with Mike.
catg...@aol.com
All network programming was in color by 1968-69, so the "Happening"
episode with the Monkees (who did not perform any songs, as I recall,
only comedy bits) should've been in color. I'm not sure what has
happened to the color episodes; perhaps they were lost or worse,
destroyed. There's a few videos on youtube from the old "Hollywood
Palace" show, from the days when that show was broadcast in color but
the clips are in black and white. Curiously, Peter had made a solo
appearance on "Happening," not as a performer but as a judge on their
weekly talent contest. Would've been nice if the Monkees and Peter as
a solo performer or with Release had been allowed to perform. I don't
recall any other musical performer not performing on that show and the
Monkees being relegated to comedy bits seemed like a slap in the face.
Ron Fowler
them, but yeah, I was surprised they didn't do at least one song.
'Teardrop City" was the current single, you can hear it playing as they
go to a commercial break. "A Man Without a Dream" can be heard later in
the show, too. The only color clip I have from Happening is a film the
Raiders did for "Too Much Talk". Too bad we never got a Happening dvd
set. They had some good guests (even if it was all lip-synching), there
aren't even many eps circulating among collectors. Wouldn't be surprised
if most of the tapes are lost. The only ep I have besides the Monkees
one features Strawberry Alarm Clock. Other than that, I've just got a
few random Raiders songs pulled from different eps.
catg...@aol.com
The Monkees assisting the Raiders on that one song is what I remember
about that episode, aside from the disappointment of the Monkees not
performing any songs.I still wonder to this day why they didn't
perform any songs? Did they want to play live but aside from Mike's
guitar, didn't have a backing band and Micky and Davy didn't want to
play an instrument? I don't think the Raiders could've had any
objections to the Monkees performing; they were the hosts but the show
was produced by Dick Clark, who was reportedly helping the Monkees on
some of their '69 concert bookings. And besides Peter's guest
appearance as a talent judge, Micky's then-wife, the gorgeous Samantha
was also a talent judge. My guess is the "Happening" shows are locked
away in Dick Clark's archives, which means we may never see all of
those shows. Would be nice, but we can't even get "American Bandstand"
complete on dvd. Of course, such a release would need a lot of
licensing clearances for all those songs!
> http://community.webtv.net/lonelysummer/RONFOWLERSLONELY
Ron Fowler
that episode. No, Paul and Mark wouldn't have objected, lots of other
bands performed on the show. Strawberry Alarm Clock did one of their
followups to "Incense and Peppermints" titled "Tomorrow", and I've read
there are eps with the Beach Boys, Jose Feliciano, Sonny and Cher and
Wilson Pickett. Yeah, Dick Clark likes to keep this stuff locked away in
a vault, doesn't he realise there is money to be made on these things?
You can get Shindig and Hullaballoo tapes and dvd's, but no Happening,
American Bandstand or Where the Action Is. That's just wrong.
Chief Wild Eagle
masters were destroyed by the networks, leaving only b&w scratchy
kinescopes. Wouldn't surprise me if the same occurred on "Happening."
It's curious, though, why Clark's "Bandstand" remains unreleased.
Granted, the performers lip-synched, but they are still a piece of
history.
Ron Fowler
them a few years back. Maybe some tapes were destroyed, but not all.
catg...@aol.com
I can't recall if the Beach Boys or Sonny and Cher ever made an
appearance on "Happening." "Where the Action Is" may be another
matter. I'm pretty sure Wilson Pickett and Jose Feliciano made an
appearance. Maybe Mark or Paul could elucidate on the Monkees not
performing any songs on "Happening." Then again, they may not remember
the exact reason. "Incense and Peppermints" is one of my favorite
songs but there's a story about the singer on that song not being the
drummer shown singing the song, but belonging to someone who showed up
at the studio, sang on the recording and then disappeared forever. I
don't know about the truth of that story but it makes for a great
tale! I'm not sure what Clark's reasoning could be for holding onto
all of his shows, but I think some of the AB episodes from the 50s are
lost because they were shown in kinescope, which was a different
broadcasting type to the episodes captured on film. Several years ago,
VH1 aired AB clips of artists who appeared on the show but that wasn't
a very large list. Mostly artists from the late 70s and 80s!
Ron Fowler
that included clips from Bandstand and his other shows. I managed to
tape it when it was on a local channel. A lot of it was from his New
Years Eve specials. Other than that, he just shows bits and pieces on
his Bandstand anniversary specials.
catg...@aol.com
Clark's AB anniversary shows all too often focus on the acts who have
become part of the long term pop culture, so you won't see the artists
who once were well known but whose popularity only lasted a few years.
That means you won't see Davy singing (lip synching) "Rainy Jane" or
Mike performing "Joanne" live and the Bandstand dancers dancing to the
studio recording of "Nevada Fighter." Or the hundreds of one hit
wonder artists.
I remember Clark's anniversary specials airing even in the 60s and
recall a TV Guide listing that provided the names of the artists that
were going to be part of one special in particular, including the
Monkees. No, not footage of the episode where they supposedly appeared
on and performed "I'm a Believer" and "Steppin' Stone," but "Last
Train to Clarksville!" It wasn't footage of the Monkees performing
"Clarksville" but just a snippet of the Bandstand dancers dancing to
the song. As a matter of fact, my recollection is that a lot of
performers listed by TV Guide as being in that special consisted of
just snippets of the AB dancers dancing to their tunes, with maybe a
handful of artists actually being seen. What passed for entertainment
and variety shows in those days!
Ron Fowler
group ever appear on the show? They were doing quite a few guest
appearances in 1969.
catg...@aol.com
> Interesting. I didn't know the solo Monkees ever appeared on AB. Did the
> group ever appear on the show? They were doing quite a few guest
> appearances in 1969.
There was an AB listing for the Monkees claimed in a book on the show,
performing "I'm a Believer" and "Steppin' Stone," but some said the
show never took place. I don't know about that myself. Growing up, I
watched AB every Saturday but can't remember if the Monkees ever made
an appearance. As long as the show was on the air and all the musical
guests that were on the show, it would be easy to overlook or forget
an artist who was on the show. The other musical guest on the show
featuring Davy was the Grass Roots, and seems like there was a fly
buzzing around them that they joked with Dick Clark belonged to Davy.
The other musical guest on the show featuring Mike was a Canadian
group (with a cute girl singer from England) named the Bells. Obscure
and not very well known today but they had a big hit at the time
called "Stay Awhile." An audio only video of Mike's appearance on
Bandstand is on youtube, complete with the interview -- or was.
Someone also did a video for the song by the Bells, which is still a
good song after all these years.
All of the Monkees's guest apearances in 1969 should've helped with
record sales. I missed their appearance on Joey Bishop's late night
talk show. It was said they performed both sides of their then-single,
"Someday Man" and "Listen to the Band," which would've made that one
of the rare promotions of the recordings they had out at the time.
When they appeared on the Tonight show, they performed "Daydream
Beleiver" and "Goin' Down," which I remember Johnny Carson mentioning
as being another track from their then-new album, "The Monkees
Greatest Hits." Which of course wasn't on the album at all. They
performed "Nine Times Blue" on the Johnny Cash show, which was never
released originally but was also very much the rarity as they
performed the song live with Micky and Davy providing harmony vocals.
Of course, Mike did all of his own harmonies on his own studio
recording of the song, which wasn't bad but I always wished the
Monkees would've used each other's voices on their recordings for the
harmonies. Their voices sounded good together and doing the harmonies
themselves or using other vocalists outside of the group wasn't what
they should've been doing as a group. Operating as solo artists but
releasing the recordings as a group was something I don't think no
other group had done at the time or has since.
Ron Fowler
overdubbing his own harmonies. That was great version of "Nine Times
Blue" with just the three voices and Mike's guitar. Tht should've been
on the album that was out then. I've never seen any footage of the
Monkees - together or individually - on AB, and I've got a lot of stuff
- Cash, Glen Campbell Show, Laugh In, but regretfully not the Joey
Bishop show. I wouldn't have thought it necessary for them to do AB in
66/67/68, because they had their own show. If people wanted to see the
Monkees on tv, they knew where to turn, and it wasn't a hit and miss
thing. Rick Nelson never did Bandstand, either, and that's why - if
people wanted to see him, they could see him on the family show every
week. Ozzie didn't want Ricky overexposed, either. I don't think he even
did the Ed Sullivan show until "Ozzie and Harriet" had gone off the air.
catg...@aol.com
> overdubbing his own harmonies. That was �great version of "Nine Times
> Blue" with just the three voices and Mike's guitar. Tht should've been
> on the album that was out then.
I think that "Nine Times Blue" was considered for inclusion on several
of their albums, yet it was always passed over in favor of other
tracks. Since the performance on the Cash show was a live performance
and not a studio recording, and which also was owned by ABC or Johnny
or the studio that produced his show, it wouldn't have been available
for possible inclusion as an album track, unless Mike, Davy and Micky
went into the studio and recorded a similar version. However, given
each didn't want the others involved on their own individual tracks
most of the time, even going so far as to include backing vocals, a
remake of NTB with Davy and Micky on backing vocals seemed unlikely.
>I've never seen any footage of the Monkees - together or individually - on AB, and I've got a lot >of stuff - Cash, Glen Campbell Show, Laugh In, but regretfully not the Joey
> Bishop show. I wouldn't have thought it necessary for them to do AB in
> 66/67/68, because they had their own show. If people wanted to see the
> Monkees on tv, they knew where to turn, and it wasn't a hit and miss
> thing. Rick Nelson never did Bandstand, either, and that's why - if
> people wanted to see him, they could see him on the family show every
> week. Ozzie didn't want Ricky overexposed, either. I don't think he even
> did the Ed Sullivan show until "Ozzie and Harriet" had gone off the air.
I watched some of the "Laugh In" stuff on youtube and was a little
startled to see Mike was bearded. I remember watching their appearance
on "Laugh In" yet didn't remember him being bearded. They made a good
enough impression on George Schlatter that he considered making them
regulars for the show. That might've helped with promoting their
recordings.
For all the naysayers who say the Monkees never appeared on AB, Davy
made a reference one time in an interview about the group appearing on
the show, even though they had their own show and didn't really need
an appearance on AB to help promote their records. But, I think he
said it was done out of respect for the show and that it was a honor
because of so many other artists and bands having appeared on the show
to promote their records. One would've thought they would've made the
"Ed Sullivan Show" for the same reasons, but I guess they were never
considered for the Sullivan show.
Ron Fowler
cancelled. The Monkees were still popular enough in 69 to have been on
the show. Would've been a good chance to preview what they were doing on
the road, with Sam and the Goodtimers. I'm surprised Mike didn't return
to the Johnny Cash show when he had the First National Band. That
would've been a natural. John liked to have a variety of music artists
on his show, rock 'n' roll, country, soul, so the FNB would've fit right
in, with their mix of country and rock.
catg...@aol.com
Mike didn't do a lot of tv variety shows to promote his music, which
was odd, as that would've been of some help in the selling of his
recordings. How much of a help, I'm not sure. I think you could still
do the wrong tv show and it would do nothing for your musical career
(e.g., Davy on the "New Danny Thomas Show) but I wonder if Nez was
resistant to appear on tv to promote his music in much the same way he
was resistant to touring for the same purpose? Some fans put great
stock in a performer touring, claiming the tours help with the sales
in the stores. But, I know that some of the acts I've liked over the
years that toured at one time on a regular basis had sluggish sales
just the same.
I'm not sure who booked the acts that appeared on the Sullivan show,
probably not old Stoneface himself, but an appearance on Sullivan's
show could only have helped the Monkees. As for Sam and the
Goodtimers, they backed the Monkees on the Carson show but I don't
remember their musical backing for "Daydream Believer" and "Goin'
Down" being all that much different from the studio recordings, though
can't recall the piano being played on "Daydream Believer." I do
recall that only Davy and Micky had mikes while Mike played the white
Gibson guitar that was shown in his photographs for "The Monkees
Present." Some, such as Rolling Stain, questioned in concert reviews
on the Monkees as to whether Mike's guitar was plugged in during those
concerts. His guitar was plugged in on the Carson show as his playing
was quite similar to those heard on the studio recordings. But,
although he didn't have a mike, I remember him calling out, "All
together now!" during the third and final run of the chorus on
"Daydream Believer."
It's surprising Nez and the First National Band didn't do the Johnny
Cash show but I think there were musical differences behind the scenes
between Nez, Ware and London as Ware and London split from the group
in '71, leaving only Nez and Rhoades. Nez then formed the Second
National Band, which released only one album before collapsing. I
think the Cash show would've helped Nez out on the songs from the
"Nevada Fighter" album but with Ware and London gone by that point,
Nez probably would've been repeating his Monkees appearance on the
Cash show, accompanying himself on acoustic guitar but without any
backing vocals and possibly only Rhoades for musical support. His
songs sounded good either way but I thought they sounded best when
played by a four or five (or possibly six) piece band.
Ron Fowler
barely a year. They recorded those three albums in quick succession.
John Ware played with Nez later in the 70's (he's on "Live at the
Palais"), and of course Red continued to play on many of Mike's
projects, but I'm not aware of London ever playing with him again.
catg...@aol.com
London was working or retired as a journalist at the time of his
death, and I think I read on his obit that he left the music biz not
long after his departure from the FNB. I'm not sure as to how many
"Nevada Fighter" tracks London and Ware are on, since Nez finished the
album with the studio session players. Andrew's book shows some 1970
dates for some of the NF tracks and shows Ware and London on those
tracks, but it's not clear as to whether the final album track line-
ups are the same takes or alternate takes. I'm inclined to think the
finished product are remakes rather than the versions recorded with
Ware and London. It's kind of curious that both Ware and London were
members of Linda Ronstadt's backing band when Ware approached Nez with
the idea of forming a group. I always thought it more likely that
since Nez wanted out of the Monkees by that time, that he approached
Ware and his old buddy London with the idea of forming a group. As for
London's professional relationship with Nez, it does seem strange that
the two never played together again after the FNB even though London
was never far outside Nez's circle during the Monkees, contributing
the occasional bass. Friendship wise? It may be a case of the two
having simply drifted apart, owing to John's interest and new career
as a journalist. He appeared on the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's album
that had their hits "Mr. Bojangles," "House at Pooh Corner" and "Some
of Shelly's Blues," as well as their version of "Propinquity," but
there was no mention as to which songs on the album that he played
on.
I'm not sure if that was his final appearance as a musician because
there was a single by the "First National Band" that appeared on
Monument Records at about the same time that "Mama Rocker" appeared by
the Second National Band. That song was called "The Trip Down" but
don't know if the group included London and Ware. From what I've
learned over the years, most group names are either copyrighted or
incorporated by someone within the band or connected to the band to
prevent others from using the name. The split of Nez's FNB wasn't even
a year old when the Monument single appeared, and if neither Ware or
London was involved with that group, it seemed a rather bizarre and
brazen attempt by other musicians to start using the name. If it was
an attempt to capitalize off of Nez's fame, it didn't work. As far as
I can remember, the single bombed in the charts.
Ron Fowler
mentioned here a few months ago. Have you heard the record? I'd be
interested, at least as a curiosity.
catg...@aol.com
> mentioned here a few months ago. Have you heard the record? I'd be
> interested, at least as a curiosity.
I remember hearing it played a few times on the radio back in '72, but
the airplay was so sporadic that I don't recall its melody. I think
what airplay it did get was probably based on the idea that it was
Nez's band, even though Nez wasn't in the group. And the fact the band
was signed to a label other than RCA should've made the DJs somewhat
suspicious that it wasn't the Nez-led group.
Ron Fowler
as much as Andrew. I used to think I knew a lot about the Monkees until
I came here! First National Band without Nez would be like Stone Ponies
without Linda Ronstadt, or Stone Canyon Band without Rick Nelson.
catg...@aol.com
Thanks, Ron. I really don't know very much, just remember a lot of the
bits and pieces. Back in the late 70s, I could've bought the FNB
single on Monument from a mail order company for under two bucks! I
don't know why I didn't as these days, it's pretty hard for me to look
through the dealer pages of Goldmine magazine looking for the record
-- my eyes aren't what they used to be. I haven't looked at ebay as a
possible source for the record but as I don't think that band was
connected to Nez in any way, I still don't think the record would be
much worth over what it cost in the 70s.
Funny thing about group names: in the 70s, the management for Dawn
sued other groups using the name Dawn in their group, including one
group that actually existed before Dawn came along in 1970 with
"Candida." That other group was called Blue Dawn and I'm not sure why
Dawn's management had a problem with them. That group wasn't trying to
be the Tony Orlando-led group but as I recall, Dawn's management took
Blue Dawn to court to prevent them from using the Dawn name in their
name, even though they existed first. I never did hear how that case
turned out.
As for the other FNB, assuming it wasn't Ware and London keeping the
name and replacing Nez and Rhoades with other musicians, I still
wonder to this day if Nez knew about that group? Nez has always been
one very smart person when it comes to the business side of the music
industry, and I think he would've known to incorporate the First
National Band name, so that no one else could come along and use it.
Of course, maybe the name was incorporated by Ware or London (in a
move similar to that of a member of the Lovin' Spoonful) or by the
group's manager. Either scenario would've allowed another FNB to be
put together without approval from Nez, though I couldn't see Nez
letting someone else own the name.
Ron Fowler
brilton
book by Tommy Boyce, and it's captioned:
"A crazy Saturday morning get-together on Dick Clark's TV show, American
Bandstand. Tommy and Bobby make a surprise guest appearance on a
tricycle in the middle of a song being sung by Paul Revere & The Raiders
and one Monkee. From left to right... Paul Revere Mark Lindsay, Fred
Weller, Davey Jones (the one Monkee) and Keith Allison."
Ron Fowler
Monkeemania, and it's from Happening.
brilton
> I think the caption is a mistake. That picture is also in the book
> Monkeemania, and it's from Happening.
>
Yeah, the book - "How to Write a Hit Song... and Sell it" - seems to be
replete with dodgy captions. And the text isn't a hundred per cent
accurate either.
He gilds the lily a bit at times. There's a lengthy anecdote about how
he and Bobby Hart wrote "Valleri". The familiar tale is there about how
he lied to Donny Kirschner over the phone about how they had this great
new tune with a girl's name as the title, and how they wrote it in half
an hour, played it to Donny and the executives (sounds like a band name,
that does), recorded it straight away and then it got onto the Monkees
TV show, sbhortly after which some regional DJs copied the TV soundtrack
onto disc and made the song an "airplay" hit. But then he fudges things
by claiming that straight away it was released as a single and became a
smasharoonie number one hit in the USA as well as worldwide. Well of
course we all know that Valleri didn't see release until about a year
and a half later. It's almost as if he's altered the story to make it
seem more impressive.
Much as I like Boyce & Hart songs, I can't shake the feeling that they
were really just glorified jingle writers. They never innovated - time
and time again they took a current hit song and based their own song or
arrangement on it.
Ron Fowler
and McCartney, Wilson and Love, Holland Dozier and Holland, or even Mike
Nesmith.
catg...@aol.com
> replete with dodgy captions. And the text isn't a hundred per cent
> accurate either.
Tommy's book was published, I think, by Melvin Powers's vanity
publishing company in the 70s. And, I think that like many other
vanity publishing operations, there was no one to edit or proof read
the book for errors and correct them. Powers was some sort of southern
California salesman who teamed up with Tommy to write songs. I
remember reading one of Powers's books in which he promoted himself
and Boyce as a new, hot hit songwriting team. One song they wrote was
recorded by Teresa Brewer but it wasn't a hit, nor was anything else
they wrote together, that I recall.
> He gilds the lily a bit at times. There's a lengthy anecdote about how
> he and Bobby Hart wrote "Valleri". The familiar tale is there about how
> he lied to Donny Kirschner over the phone about how they had this great
> new tune with a girl's name as the title, and how they wrote it in half
> an hour, played it to Donny and the executives (sounds like a band name,
> that does), recorded it straight away and then it got onto the Monkees
> TV show, sbhortly after which some regional DJs copied the TV soundtrack
> onto disc and made the song an "airplay" hit. But then he fudges things
> by claiming that straight away it was released as a single and became a
> smasharoonie number one hit in the USA as well as worldwide. Well of
> course we all know that Valleri didn't see release until about a year
> and a half later. It's almost as if he's altered the story to make it
> seem more impressive.
I don't remember any radio station I listened to in '66 or '67 ever
playing the TV version of "Valleri." I used to listen late at night
(when the reception was better) to any number of radio stations from
across the US, and if the TV version of "Valleri" was played, it would
only have been played during the daytime. But, that would've been very
unusual for deejays to play a song during the day but not at night. As
for the song becoming a number one hit right away, he seems to have
forgotten that the TV version wasn't released at all originally and
that the hit in question was a later remake. It's possible that as
busy as he and Hart were in those days, he might have thought
"Valleri" was released in 1967 instead of 1968. The song wasn't a
number one in Billboard -- it only made it to number three, but it was
a number one in Cashbox, Billboard's competition.
As for writing the song in half an hour, playing it for the Donfather
and other executives, and getting it into a couple of the episodes,
it's possible, I guess. Some songwriters have that knack for writing a
song rather quickly. However, given how dismissive the Donfather was
of Boyce and Hart as producers and who knows what he thought of them
as songwriters, it's possible that Kirshner's preference for his
hitmakers out of New York may have put enough pressure on B&H to be
just as competitive as the east coast hitmakers, if not more. Boyce
and Hart had delivered the goods for the Monkees's first album but
Kirshner, far from being grateful and showing any gratitude towards
Boyce and Hart by letting them produce most of the second album,
showed them the door by replacing them with Jeff Barry and others. Of
course, Boyce and Hart made a lot of money from the Monkees's first
album and that may have had something to do with their reduced role in
the project.
> Much as I like Boyce & Hart songs, I can't shake the feeling that they
> were really just glorified jingle writers. They never innovated - time
> and time again they took a current hit song and based their own song or
> arrangement on it.
To me, Boyce and Hart weren't innovative but then, neither are a good
many other songwriters and acts.
brilton
>> Yeah, the book - "How to Write a Hit Song... and Sell it" - seems to be
>> replete with dodgy captions. And the text isn't a hundred per cent
>> accurate either.
>>
>
> Tommy's book was published, I think, by Melvin Powers's vanity
> publishing company in the 70s. And, I think that like many other
> vanity publishing operations, there was no one to edit or proof read
> the book for errors and correct them. Powers was some sort of southern
> California salesman who teamed up with Tommy to write songs. I
> remember reading one of Powers's books in which he promoted himself
> and Boyce as a new, hot hit songwriting team. One song they wrote was
> recorded by Teresa Brewer but it wasn't a hit, nor was anything else
> they wrote together, that I recall.
>
The book has pages and pages of reproductions of award certifications
and even royalty statement printouts, for no good reason other than to
perhaps show budding songwriters the potential they could reach. Pretty
tacky though.
>
> I don't remember any radio station I listened to in '66 or '67 ever
> playing the TV version of "Valleri." I used to listen late at night
> (when the reception was better) to any number of radio stations from
> across the US, and if the TV version of "Valleri" was played, it would
> only have been played during the daytime. But, that would've been very
> unusual for deejays to play a song during the day but not at night. As
> for the song becoming a number one hit right away, he seems to have
> forgotten that the TV version wasn't released at all originally and
> that the hit in question was a later remake. It's possible that as
> busy as he and Hart were in those days, he might have thought
> "Valleri" was released in 1967 instead of 1968. The song wasn't a
> number one in Billboard -- it only made it to number three, but it was
> a number one in Cashbox, Billboard's competition.
>
The only part of his story that I dispute is his contention that the
song went from conception to number one worldwide hit in a very short
time, which of course it didn't. The part about the local/regional
stations dubbing the song off-air and playing it on the radio has been
mentioned by other sources (which I can't remember), so I don't dispute
that part.
>
>> Much as I like Boyce & Hart songs, I can't shake the feeling that they
>> were really just glorified jingle writers. They never innovated - time
>> and time again they took a current hit song and based their own song or
>> arrangement on it.
>>
>
> To me, Boyce and Hart weren't innovative but then, neither are a good
> many other songwriters and acts.
>
There was a quote in one of the blurbs that came with Rhino CD reissues
in the 90s where he (Boyce) was moaning about how the Monkees stopped
using Boyce & Hart songs and got their own (Monkees) friends to write
songs which he thought weren't nearly as good. All the same, there was
at least one B&H song on nearly all the Monkees LPs, so I don't think
they were that hard done by. It's that arrogance/balls/self-belief that
he writes about in his book that I think comes through in the above comment.
Ron Fowler
the band totally dumped them. I just think B&H's ego's were bruised when
they were pushed aside first, by the Donfather, and then the group
themselves. They still did "I'll Spend My Life With You", "Mr. Webster",
"Words", "I'll Be Back Up on My Feet", "P.O. Box 9847", "Me Without
You", 'Ladies Aid Society", Looking for the Good Times" and "Never
Thought it Peculiar" on subsequent Monkees albums. That's probably more
songs than anyone else got on the records, excepting Da Nez.
catg...@aol.com
> and even royalty statement printouts, for no good reason other than to
> perhaps show budding songwriters the potential they could reach. Pretty
> tacky though.
I tried to find a copy of Tommy's book in the late 70s after I found
out he had written one, but I was never able to find a copy. I wanted
to read what he had to say on making it in the music business. I had
read some other books on making it in the music business, including
one book written by a man who "wrote" songs for Elvis. The
reproductions in Tommy's book sounds like it may have been Melvin's
idea. His books were always full of reproductions but short on written
substance.
> The only part of his story that I dispute is his contention that the
> song went from conception to number one worldwide hit in a very short
> time, which of course it didn't. The part about the local/regional
> stations dubbing the song off-air and playing it on the radio has been
> mentioned by other sources (which I can't remember), so I don't dispute
> that part.
Likewise, I've seen other sources mentioning "Valleri" being dubbed
from the TV series and then being played on radio, yet I still
question the story. The other sources could simply have been repeating
the original story and reporting it as fact. None of the sources ever
mentioned what particular radio stations taped the song and then
played it. If it did happen on a limited scale, I think it should've
been easy to have listed some of the radio stations that taped the
song. It could've happened but the telling of the story is so skimpy
on details, that I tend to regard the story as part of the urban
legend stories about the Monkees.
> There was a quote in one of the blurbs that came with Rhino CD reissues
> in the 90s where he (Boyce) was moaning about how the Monkees stopped
> using Boyce & Hart songs and got their own (Monkees) friends to write
> songs which he thought weren't nearly as good. All the same, there was
> at least one B&H song on nearly all the Monkees LPs, so I don't think
> they were that hard done by. It's that arrogance/balls/self-belief that
> he writes about in his book that I think comes through in the above comment.
Tommy was quoted extensively in Glenn A. Baker's book, "Monkeemania,"
which is where I think that comment came from. He struck me as being
very bitter, seemed very resentful of Nez's participation in the
recording process and griped that Micky, Davy and Peter only started
writing songs once they saw Nez's royalty checks. From what I recall,
Micky mentioned Mike encouraging him, Davy and Peter to write songs
before the first album had even been released, telling them they could
make a lot of money just off of the royalties if the Monkees were
successful. Boyce claimed the Monkees could've had "Out and About" and
"I Wonder What She's Doing Tonight" but once the band told B&H to get
lost, B&H took their own songs and recorded them and getting the hits.
It was Lester Sill who always made sure that the Monkees's albums
(except "Head") included songs by Boyce and Hart, and always with
Micky or Davy on lead vocals. But, the B&H songs the Monkees recorded
tended to be remakes of songs B&H had produced for the group
originally in '66 and '67, with rarely any new songs such as "P.O. Box
9847," "Me Without You" or "My Storybook of You" being recorded. If
anything, "My Storybook of You" probably shows the reason why the
Monkees (except Davy) moved away from recording Boyce and Hart songs.
It's not a bad song but neither was it a good song. That Lester Sill
and Brendan Cahill thought "Ladies Aid Society" was a better song to
release says a lot as to what they thought about MSOY. Had it been me,
I would've picked MSOY over LAS but the quality in B&H's songs was all
downhill after their participation was severely limited.
catg...@aol.com
Lester Sill was responsible for songs by B&H being included on the
Monkees's albums and as possible singles. To me, Boyce and Hart made a
mistake in trying to exclude Nez from their recording sessions. They
regarded Nez as a competitor as Hart later claimed that he and Tommy
didn't know the Monkees's albums were going to have songs written and
produced by Nez. They must've been in some kind of cocoon as Nez's
productions on his songs began before Boyce and Hart got the job
producing the Monkees. But, in Andrew's book, he says Boyce and Hart
worked on some of Nez's productions, so they must've known but have
been extremely naive to think Nez's songs were only going to be used
for the series and not the albums.
(Btw, "I'll Be Back Upon My Feet" was written by Sandy Linzer and
Denny Randell.)
Ron Fowler
Mike, Peter, and to a lesser extent, Davy and Micky wanted more control
on the recording front. I mean, the guys were being called fakes - and
worse! - for their synthetic origins, but B&H were just as blind to all
of this as Kirshner was. And they could not recognize the musical genius
that was Mike Nesmtih. Of course he wanted his songs on the albums -
sure, for financial reasons, but also because they were good songs, and
they were going to be heard by millions of people! All 4 Monkees came up
with some good songs - on the later albums, often much better than the
Boyce and Hart material that was used.
catg...@aol.com
I've always thought it peculiar (apologies to B&H) that Boyce and Hart
adhered to the Donfather's myopic view that Monkee recordings should
only feature Davy and/or Micky on lead vocals and that Mike and Peter
were persona non grata, as far as lead vocals were concerned. I
thought Jeff Barry had that same attitude towards Mike when he took
over the production reins, but the story that's been told is that he
tried to involve Mike in the recording process but that Nez was
dismissive of Barry's productions and combative in the studio. Barry
joking to Nez that he was going to put horns and strings on "I'm a
Believer" in order to make it a hit after Nez told him the song wasn't
going to be a hit was the wrong thing for Barry to say. I don't know
if he ever tried apologizing to Nez or if Nez refused his apology if
he did, but I would still have asked him to come to the studio, found
songs for him to sing lead on, ask him to contribute backing vocals
and at the risk of incurring the wrath of the Donfather, had him (and
Peter) contributing guitar. Monkee business was big business for the
music producers as it was for the Monkees, the Donfather and the
various Screen Gems/Columbia entities and rather than siding with the
Donfather all of the time, Barry should've been more aggressive in
getting Nez involved in productions outside of his own. Siding with
the Donfather proved fatal when he was sacked from the Monkees
project. When he was out, Barry was out and so were Boyce and Hart for
a time. Had either had Nez and Tork in from the beginning, listened to
their criticisms about the songs, they might've remained on board in
the wake of Kirshner's departure.
As songwriters, Mike was definitely more commercial than he gave
himself credit for being. Micky and Peter were pretty strong
songwriters while Davy was the weakest of the four originally. But,
I'm not sure of Davy's responsibilities in the writing of his songs,
whether he just came up with the lyrics or the melodies or both.
Whenever Bill Chadwick has mentioned "You and I" or "If You Have the
Time" or any of the other songs he wrote with Davy, it sounds like he
alone wrote the songs instead of writing them with Davy. Regardless,
their songs were much better than the ones Davy wrote with Steve
Pitts, yet the Jones-Pitts songs weren't bad songs necessarily.
Rather, they were fair to good songs in need of better arrangements.
The songs didn't need the horns and strings that made them too syrupy,
just a basic rhythm arrangement of lead and rhythm guitars, bass,
drums and keyboards with maybe a few saxophones on some of the songs.
leno...@gmail.com
I hope the Joey Bishop show turns up someday. I think I have the audio
somewhere.
Is there any downloads of rare Monkees & solo audio/video around?
catg...@aol.com
> somewhere.
>
> Is there any downloads of rare Monkees & solo audio/video around?
Someone has posted an audio only clip of the Monkees performing "Goin'
Down" on the "Tonight Show with Johnny Carson" on youtube. The clip
includes Carson's intro for the group although the group performed
"Daydream Believer" following that intro and not "Goin' Down." "Goin'
Down" was the second song performed and was wrongly identified by
Carson as being another selection from "The Monkees Greatest Hits."
The version of "Goin' Down" bears little resemblance to the recorded
version as they were backed by Sam and the Good Times. As for their
appearance on the Bishop show, there was a rumored bootleg dvd of rare
appearances by the Monkees, which included the Bishop show.
Ron Fowler
"The Poster", and "You and I". BB&M was the first Monkees album I ever
owned, so those songs have a soft spot in my heart. Micky was less
prolific, at least in terms of originally released songs, but of course
"Randy Scouse Git" was a classic, and he made some great contributions
to "Present". Too bad Micky and Davy didn't write more songs together -
"You and I" is one of my fave Monkees tunes, the Justus version being
far superior to the DJBH version. In Mike's case, though, many of his
best songs were not on the original albums. The Missing Links
collections were essential for uncovering long lost gems like "Carlisle
Wheeling", "Nine Times Blue", "The Crippled Lion", "St. Matthew", "Of
You" and the live "Circle Sky". It's interesting how many songs from the
First National Band albums were first recorded at Monkee sessions.
catg...@aol.com
> "The Poster", and "You and I". BB&M was the first Monkees album I ever
> owned, so those songs have a soft spot in my heart.
I liked Davy's songs as well but think spme could've had better
arrangements. "Dream World" was and is a good tune, which I think had
it had a better arrangement, could've been a potentially good single.
It was hard to fathom as to why some of Davy's unreleased better
songwriting efforts with Steve Pitts or Bill Chadwick were never
released originally. Likewise, "Smile," which Davy wrote all by
himself without assistance from Steve or Bill. Davy showed a potential
as a songwriter which, had the Monkees popularity not waned in the
late 60s, could've found him having to rely less on songs from Boyce
and Hart and other Screen Gems songwriters and more on his own
efforts. Pity that "The Monkees Present" didn't drop the Boyce and
Hart songs and offer at least two of the following three: "Smile," "If
You Have the Time" or "Time and Time Again." Given that all the other
songs on TMP were then-recent recordings, it would've been better if
Lester Sill and Brendan Cahill had used some of Davy's own recent
productions rather than picking two unreleased Boyce and Hart songs
from '66.
>Micky was less prolific, at least in terms of originally released songs, but of course
> "Randy Scouse Git" was a classic, and he made some great contributions
> to "Present".
It's puzzling as to why Micky didn't write more songs in the 60s. His
two pre-Monkees singles, "Don't Do It" and "Huff Puff," were both
written by him and it's surprising he wasn't writing songs for the
Monkees before "Randy Scouse Git." Peter, too, for that matter. Bert
and Bob had to have known how creative the four Monkees were and how
that creativity would eventually conflict with the Donfather's cookie-
cutter method of recording. It's somewhat bizarre that Bert and Bob
didn't have the Monkees working together as a musical unit between the
time the pilot was made and the time the show was picked up by NBC and
work on the first offical episode had begun. The three or four months
that passed between those events might've been enough time for the
Monkees to gel as a musical unit, with no need of the Donfather's
services.
>Too bad Micky and Davy didn't write more songs together -
> "You and I" is one of my fave Monkees tunes, the Justus version being
> far superior to the DJBH version.
I'm surprised a songwriting union of some kind didn't emerge among the
four Monkees. It's interesting that Davy wrote songs with Steve and
Bill, who were associates of Mike's, but who never specifically wrote
with Mike outside of a group function. The two were on much friendlier
terms in the 60s than what they were later, with Nez taking a
production interest in some of Davy's songs. There were so many
writing variables within the Monkees that they could've constantly
surprised the fans and the critics as to what they could come up with
for their singles and albums. Pity that writing together was a side
that was never fully explored.
>In Mike's case, though, many of his
> best songs were not on the original albums. The Missing Links
> collections were essential for uncovering long lost gems like "Carlisle
> Wheeling", "Nine Times Blue", "The Crippled Lion", "St. Matthew", "Of
> You" and the live "Circle Sky". It's interesting how many songs from the
> First National Band albums were first recorded at Monkee sessions.
For me, the majority of Nez's Nashville productions were a big
letdown. Overproduced and overarranged. When it comes to the songs
from the Nashville sessions, my preference in most cases are for the
versions that were produced by the FNB or Nez as a solo artist. I did
prefer the Monkees era-produced versions of "Nine Times Blue," "Little
Red Rider" and "Calico Girlfriend" over the versions found on
"Magnetic South." As for "Carlisle Wheeling (Conversations),"
"Hollywood" and "Listen to the Band," I like both the Monkees versions
and the FNB versions.
As you note, there were quite a few songs from the FNB albums that
were first recorded at a Monkees session, but I recall that when Nez
split from the Monkees, it was claimed in a press interview that he
was going to avoid re-recording and performing songs he had recorded
with the Monkees. But, half of the songs found on "Magnetic South"
were songs that had first been worked on at a Monkees session. The
same being true for CW, LTTB,"Propinquity" and "Some of Shelly's
Blues." As prolific a songwriter as Nez was at that time, what was
more surprising was him opting to record as many songs he had written
before or during the Monkees, instead of relying on all newly written
songs for his albums. Far from avoiding songs from his Monkees past,
he embraced many of those songs for his solo/FNB efforts.
Ron Fowler
instead of the B&H stuff, possibly the two weakest songs they
contributed to the Monkees catalog. "If You Have the Time" is one of
Davy's better efforts, and i quite like "TIme and Time Again". Haven't
heard "Smile" - been trying to track down a Monkees Present cd for a
couple years, but they're pretty pricey these days. I hope it gets the
deluxe treatment from Rhino someday soon. I don't have Instant Replay on
cd, either.
catg...@aol.com
> Agreed that Present would be better with a couple more of Davy's songs
> instead of the B&H stuff, possibly the two weakest songs they
> contributed to the Monkees catalog. "If You Have the Time" is one of
> Davy's better efforts, and i quite like "TIme and Time Again". Haven't
> heard "Smile" - been trying to track down a Monkees Present cd for a
> couple years, �but they're pretty pricey these days. I hope it gets the
> deluxe treatment from Rhino someday soon. I don't have Instant Replay on
> cd, either.
"Smile" is a bonus cut on "Instant Replay," along with alternate takes
of "Through the Looking Glass," "Me Without You," "Rosemarie," "St.
Matthew" and "Someday Man." The bonus cuts on "Present" include "The
Good Earth," a poem by Davy without music, the original version of
"Mommy and Daddy" (in which Micky went for the jugular with lyrics
that were quite a bit more fierce than the version heard on the album
originally), an alternate of "Listen to the Band" sans the horns (can
we get a version with the horns but sans the steel guitar if and when
a deluxe version of the album is released?), "Calico Girlfriend
Somba," a more poppish version than Nez's country drenched version on
"Magnetic South," and a cut that that was truly worthless, a radio
promo spot for the album, in which you hear snippets of the songs as
the announcer informs you about the Monkees latest long player. They
should've included another song by Davy or Mike and forgone the radio
spot...or at least thrown it in without telling you it was there. That
way, once the songs finished playing, you could've taken the CD
without having to listen to it.
Ron Fowler
on a cd for me. The Monkees weren't selling records in big numbers by
the time of that album, though, so one wonders what the fuss was about
Momm and Daddy? Probably no one would've noticed, anyway.
brilton
I have sometimes wondered if Micky's reference to the assassination of
JFK in the first version of "Mommy And Daddy" was the first such
reference to that event in a pop song, but I believe the Rolling Stones
pipped them at the post by a couple of months with "Sympathy For The
Devil". Talking recording dates here, not release dates.
catg...@aol.com
The JFK conspiracy reference (who really killed JFK), the hypocrisy of
parents lecturing their kids about doing drugs while they're doing
drugs themselves, the question about war and would mommy and daddy
care a little more if it was their child's blood spilled on the
kitchen floor, and telling your mommy and daddy they're living a lie
-- no one might've noticed. But, on the flipside, the controversy
about the song's lyrics could've generated enough interest for people
to have bought the Monkees record, just to see what the fuss was all
about. The Monkees probably would've faced condemnation from all the
usual conservative political and religious sources but they might've
garnered support from the rock press that usually reviled them. In
this case, Lester Sill made the wrong call in having Micky rewrite his
lyrics and recording a new vocal.The lyrics were a little tamer but
there was still references to some things like doing drugs.
leno...@gmail.com
Thanks for the heads up. I would love to find that dvd. Any idea where
to find info and possible sites to get the the dvd's as well as rare
audio. I'm A Believer from the Joey Bishop show audio is on there too.
Matt
leno...@gmail.com
I like the later period Monkees stuff very much. Time & Time Again is
excellent in my opinion. It's too bad that they didn't keep going
longer and Peter stayed in the band too. I can only imagine the great
songs he would have contributed.
I heard that Head & Birds,Bees are going to get the deluxe treatment
this coming year.
catg...@aol.com
> Thanks for the heads up. I would love to find that dvd. Any idea where
> to find info and possible sites to get the the dvd's as well as rare
> audio. I'm A Believer from the Joey Bishop show audio is on there too.
>
Check out Goldmine. They usually have a seller or two offering music
videos from a variety of sources, including old tv variety/talk shows,
though I haven't seen the Monkees's appearance on Joey Bishop's talk
show offered anywhere. The Carson performance on youtube is audio
only, probably a home taped recording by some fan. Many of Carson's
shows in the 60s weren't saved, so the audio recording is possibly the
best that can be hoped for. From what I recall, Carson didn't have
that many rock acts on his shows. Think some of the acts caused some
problems for him, so he just didn't book them. He did have John and
Paul on in 1968, although they didn't perform. I think NBC did save
the footage of their appearance, though it's a pity they didn't save
evrything else. Elvis was asked by both Carson and Bishop to appear on
their shows but neither were willing to pay the fee demanded by
Presley's manager. Bishop offered $2500 and was shocked when Elvis's
manager accepted, only to be shocked even further when Parker informed
Bishop that it would cost him an additional $47,500 for Elvis to get
up and leave. He should've paid it as he would've had an exclusive
that no other talk show could've claimed: the only talk show
appearance by the King of Rock and Roll!
Ron Fowler
Goldmine - compilation of ads, guest appearances from the 60's and 80's
- Yardlley Black Label, Kelloggs, Johnny Cash Show, Kool Aid, Head
trailer, Laugh In, Oh My My promo clip, Nez onstage with the guys in
'86, etc. Also got the Happening Monkees show through Goldmine. I've no
idea what's listed in there now - the last time I saw Goldmine a few
years ago, it had shrunk considerably. Most of the advertisers abandoned
them for the internet.
catg...@aol.com
Most of the sellers have abandoned Goldmine and it has shrunk
considerably from its glorious days in the beginning. But, they still
have a dealer or two who sells music oriented videos> Mostly concert
videos though there are the occasional video performances from the tv
shows.
Speaking of Monkee rarities, they were supposed to have filmed an
episode of "Turn On," circa late 1968/early 1969. I don't know if they
ever got around to filming their appearance as that show set a record
at the time for the fastest cancellation: after only one show had
aired. The show's concept was abysmal and not very funny: a computer
generating jokes. It was ABC's attempt at being and besting "Rowan and
Martin's Laugh In." Didn't quite catch on. The Monkees were announced
in a press release as being among the acts scheduled to appear but
after the show was cancelled, there was no mention as to what had
become of any of the other episodes that had been filmed.
There's another Monkees video on youtube that features Micky, Davy and
Mike joking around a giant telephone. It's said the video is from the
"Glen Campbell Show" but I don't remember that particular skit airing
on the Campbell show. Besides "Tear Drop City," I remember the Monkees
performing a medley of hits ("Clarksville," "I'm a Believer,"
"Steppin' Stone" -- I think, and "Salesman") and a musical comedy skit
in which they claimed to have been around as a group far longer than
the not quite three years they had been together. I think the giant
phone skit aired on some show other than Campbell's but which show, I
can't say. Personally, I thought it was a very lame and very unfunny
sketch and beneath the Monkees's own comedic talents. Whoever wrote
the skit completely missed the Monkees's comical strengths. They
deserved better.
TonyP
"catgod29@home_on_the_range.com" <catg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:15e87d3c-3af9-4990...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>Elvis was asked by both Carson and Bishop to appear on
> their shows but neither were willing to pay the fee demanded by
> Presley's manager. Bishop offered $2500 and was shocked when Elvis's
> manager accepted, only to be shocked even further when Parker informed
> Bishop that it would cost him an additional $47,500 for Elvis to get
> up and leave. He should've paid it as he would've had an exclusive
> that no other talk show could've claimed: the only talk show
> appearance by the King of Rock and Roll!
They should have accepted, and then simply tell him it was OK if he didn't
want to leave :-)
TonyP.
catg...@aol.com
> want to leave :-)
Presley also wanted to do "Rowan and Martin's Laugh In" but lamented
to an associate that Parker wouldn't go for it. Likewise, one of
Elvis's Hollywood pals, Bill Bixby, wanted him to do a guest
appearance on his series, "The Courtship of Eddie's Father," but
Parker turned that one down too. Elvis visited with Bixby on the set
of "Eddie's Father" and my guess is he might have been interested in
appearing on TV more frequently than the occasional TV special. I'd
also guess that the reason Parker turned down the offers was because
the money offered was not enough. If Parker could've gotten Elvis the
kind of money he was being given to star in his movies, Parker might
not have had any resistance to Elvis appearing on TV more regularly. I
guess that might have been a good thing. Can you imagine the horror if
the producers of "My Mother the Car" had offered Parker a million
dollars for Elvis to have guested on that show and he accepted?
Ron Fowler
life, almost superhero type of guy, with the capes and all. I don't
think he would have resisted Catwoman's advances the way Batman did,
though. He would've sung her a song like "you're evil but I want you
anyway".
catg...@aol.com
Funny. That last line of yours reminds me of the Olivia Netwon-John/
John Travolta hit, "You're the One That I Want." And everytime I hear
that song, especially on that opening riff, I think of the music that
plays on "Batman" as Batman and Robin are fighting the supervillains.
It's kind of similar to my ears and think it would've worked just as
well as the fight theme.
As for Elvis on "Batman," that would've been a good one, especially if
they had teamed him up with Catwoman or with Yvonne Craig, who played
Batgirl and who costarred with Elvis in two of his movies and even
dated him for a while.
Ron Fowler
the Penguin on their own show. Peter and Gordon, Lesley Gore, and Paul
Revere and the Raiders appeared on Batman . Lesley was Catwoman's
understudy, with the hots for Robin. Peter and Gordon had their voices
stolen by Catwoman on another episode. The Raiders played for Penguin
when he ran for mayor of Gotham City. There should've been a place for
Monkeemen in there somewhere.
catg...@aol.com
> I always thought the Monkees should've guested on Batman, after having
> the Penguin on their own show. Peter and Gordon, Lesley Gore, and Paul
> Revere and the Raiders appeared on Batman . Lesley was Catwoman's
> understudy, with the hots for Robin. Peter and Gordon had their voices
> stolen by Catwoman on another episode. The Raiders played for Penguin
> when he ran for mayor of Gotham City. There should've been a place for
> Monkeemen in there somewhere.
Was "Batman" still on the air when actor Burgess Meredith made his
cameo appearance on "The Monkees" as the Penguin? I keep thinking the
show had ended its run before the Monkees's series had come to an end.
One had to wonder what NBC thought about an actor from an ABC show
appearing on one of their programs as the character he played in his
series. Similarly, "Batman" was made by 20th Century Fox and one had
to wonder if the executives were upset about Burgess's cameo on "The
Monkees." I don't see why they would've been upset as it was a free
plug for the show. A not quite similar plug had been made on "My
Favorite Martian" for "Bewitched," when Ray Walston's Uncle Martin
character plugged "Bewitched" and Elizabeth Montgomery at the end of
one of that show's episodes. Likewise, Elizabeth turned up in one of
the Frankie and Annette beach party movies, playing the daughter of
Buster Keaton, although she was clearly playing Samantha Stevens as
she twitched her nose and popped in and out of the scene. The Frankie
and Annette beach party movies were either written or directed or
produced by Montgomery's then husband, William Asher. Of course, the
beach party movies were made by American International, which had no
ties to Screen Gems save for the Ashers.
The Monkees on "Batman" would've been a hoot although hot as the
Monkees were from 1966 through 1968, I rather imagine Screen Gems
would've nixed any appearances on shows they didn't personally
produce. I'm surprised they didn't have them make an appearance in "I
Dream of Jeannie." "Bewitched," "The Flying Nun," etc. Boyce and Hart
appeared in those shows and the Monkees's albums and Davy's solo album
were used as props in the "Jeannie" episode with Boyce and Hart (and
Phil Spector), and they were referred to as the Rolling Waves. Another
"Jeannie" episode which featured singer Sammy Davis Jr. had him saying
the line "It's not the Monkees but it's not bad!" after he had
"rehearsed" a song.
I recall Lesley Gore's appearance on "Batman" but thought it was Chad
and Jeremy who appeared on the show, rather than Peter and Gordon. I
remember the plotline being centered around the theft of the voices. I
don't remember the Raiders's appearance on "Batman" although it's been
a while since I've seen that series. I watched it when TV Land aired
it several years ago but it hasn't been on any of the local channels
or other cable channels in quite some time. Every station's going for
the more recent shows rather than the ones from the now distant past.
What's needed now is a golden oldie TV cable channel that's available
to every cable and satellite outlet that focuses on the TV shows from
earlier eras that haven't been seen in some time. It would be nice to
see some of the shows from the 50s and 60s that haven't been seen
since they were first shown. Most of those that I remember were pretty
bad but that made some of them campy to watch. I wouldn't mind seeing
some of them again. It would be a welcomed relief from the tv shows
from hell: "The Brady Bunch," the "Cosby Show," "Married...with
Children," etc. (Not that those shows are bad, just that they have
been on forever.)
brilton
> I always thought the Monkees should've guested on Batman, after having
> the Penguin on their own show. Peter and Gordon, Lesley Gore, and Paul
> Revere and the Raiders appeared on Batman . Lesley was Catwoman's
> understudy, with the hots for Robin. Peter and Gordon had their voices
> stolen by Catwoman on another episode.
Wasn't that Chad and Jeremy?
Ron Fowler
get those duos confused :( Batman and the Monkees were both cancelled in
1968, so Meredith's appearance on the Monkees would've been while Batman
was still airing - although probably no longer in production. There was
almost a 4th season of Batman. After ABC cancelled it, NBC expressed
interest in the show, but the sets had already been taken down, and NBC
didn't want to go to the expense of rebuilding everything. Too bad, as a
return to the two-part format would've helped the show immeasurably. I
rarely watch the 3rd season shows. Yvonne was great as Batgirl, but half
an hour (less, really, if you count commercials) wasn't enough time to
develop a storyline, put Batman and Robin into some kind of cliffhanger
situation, get in all the gadgetry, AND Batgirl. I find it similar to
the Monkees experience. The guys were tired of the format of their show,
but I think a fresh approach for a third season could have kept them
interested. Maybe more of a sketch format like Laugh In, allow them to
bring in musical guests like they were starting to do at the end of the
second season...oh well, I guess I'm a member of the "woulda, shoulda,
coulda" club :)
catg...@aol.com
> get those duos confused :( Batman and the Monkees were both cancelled in
> 1968, so Meredith's appearance on the Monkees would've been while Batman
> was still airing - although probably no longer in production. There was
> almost a 4th season of Batman. After ABC cancelled it, NBC expressed
> interest in the show, but the sets had already been taken down, and NBC
> didn't want to go to the expense of rebuilding everything.
NBC was also interested in having the Monkees back for a third season,
despite the often quoted myth that the Monkees's tv series fell victim
to "Gunsmoke." It's funny about NBC not wanting to rebuild the
"Batman" sets. It wouldn't have been all that much different from
having to build sets for a new TV series. Many of the "Star Trek"
episodes had to have sets built specifically for each episode,
although they did try to recycle the sets when possible and where
practical. NBC griped about keeping the series under budget. Hard to
believe the network was the same network that grumbled about spending
$125,000 on a "Star Trek" episode in the 60s and yet spent over a
million dollars a decade later on a one season fiasco called
"Supertrain."
>Too bad, as areturn to the two-part format would've helped the show immeasurably. I
> rarely watch the 3rd season shows. Yvonne was great as Batgirl, but half
> an hour (less, really, if you count commercials) wasn't enough time to
> develop a storyline, put Batman and Robin into some kind of cliffhanger
> situation, get in all the gadgetry, AND Batgirl.
"Batman" definitely needed to be a minimum of one hour, although they
could've dispensed with the cliffhanger situation if the show had
aired as a one hour show. It would've simply been the end of act two
and they would've gotten themselves out of the mess in the next act.
They could've kept the cliffhangers if the show had been broken up
over two nights, although viewers always knew Batman and Robin (and
Batgirl) would be back. I think they should've come up with more
complex cliffhanger story lines as many were pretty lame.
>I find it similar to the Monkees experience. The guys were tired of the format of their show,
> but I think a fresh approach for a third season could have kept them
> interested. Maybe more of a sketch format like Laugh In, allow them to
> bring in musical guests like they were starting to do at the end of the
> second season...oh well, I guess I'm a member of the "woulda, shoulda,
> coulda" club :)
The Monkees submitted the idea of doing something far different for a
third season but NBC wanted to keep things the way they were. The
Monkees were tired of the format of their show, yet in retrospect,
they should've done the third season and then moved on to the movies.
Bert and Bob let them down when "Head" bombed at the box office.
Rather than distancing themselves from the guys, they should've worked
on either getting them back on tv or putting together another movie.
Other actors appeared in movie bombs yet went on to make other movies.
The Monkees were abandoned. (And, yeah, I'm a member of that same
club!)
Ron Fowler
cliffhanger scenes, but I think the writers/producers got stuck in a
rut...a rutle..lol...and were just recycling ideas by then. The 3rd
season Batman's were weak, I watch the 1st and 2nd season eps much more
often. And I also think Bert and Bob abandoned the Monkees after "Head".
I mean, what kind of advertising campaign was that? Seems like they
wanted the movie to fail, so they could be rid of the Monkees.
Musically, the guys were far from finished - some of their best stuff
was on Instant Replay and Present. By all accounts, the 1969 tour was
very entertaining, even though attendance was way down. Record sales
dropped as soon as the tv show was off the air. I think they could've
had more hits had the machine still been working for them. Paul Revere
and the Raiders still had hits in that time period, Mr. Sun Mr. Moon,
Let Me, Cinderella Sunshine, and a little later Indian Reservation and
Birds of a Feather. Mark Lindsay even had some solo hits like Silver
Bird and Arizona. Other teen oriented bands like the Turtles and the
Grass Roots continued to hit the top 40 in 68-69. Oh well, too late to
do anything about it now :)
catg...@aol.com
> cliffhanger scenes, but I think the writers/producers got stuck in a
> rut...a rutle..lol...and were just recycling ideas by then. The 3rd
> season Batman's were weak, I watch the 1st and 2nd season eps much more
> often.
I could've lived with the cliffhangers since it was part of the show
from the start, and because the show was broken up over two nights.
Had they gone to a single, hour long show, doing away with the
cliffhanger would've been a necessity as viewers would've known the
show would've been back after a couple of minutes for commercials. The
third season definitely was a waste of film. Twenty-six to twenty-
eight minutes of time should've made the scripts tighter but the
show's writers were still writing as though the show was being seen
over two nights.
Where the show needed work was in the character developement. Gotham
City Police Commissioner Gordon and G.C. Police Chief O'Hara were two
of the most incompetent police characters ever on television. They
couldn't handle the criminal antics of any of the "super" villains
without reaching for the Batphone. Any officer that incompetent in the
real world would've been long gone from their jobs. Aunt Harriet was
another character needing further character developement or being done
away with. The character was never used very much and doing away with
the character would probably have helped tighten story lines and other
scenes that might have been more vital to a particular episode.
>And I also think Bert and Bob abandoned the Monkees after "Head".
> I mean, what kind of advertising campaign was that? Seems like they
> wanted the movie to fail, so they could be rid of the Monkees.
I believe the Monkees are of the opinion that Bert and Bob wanted to
be rid of them, although making a movie they wanted to fail had the
potential to backfire on them. Imagine, it's your first major movie
but it bombs at the box office. Now, you have the script for your next
major movie and the movie studio is balking on the financing because
your first movie tanked. And they weren't exactly crazy about that
artsy advertising campaign you did for your first movie. All total,
you spent $750,000 making your first movie but the movie didn't even
make that back and now you want two million dollars to make your next
movie. Wrong. The movie studio refuses to greenlight your next movie.
Of course, Bert and Bob had their Monkee millions to fall back on, so
they didn't have to totally rely on going before Columbia's president
to get authorization to make their next movie. The Monkees made them
so much money they got to bypass the system. That the Monkees made
them a lot of money and neither showed the group any true gratitude by
making sure "Head" was a huge success makes it all the more a pity
their later movies were more successful. True justice would've been
those movies also bombing at the box office.
> Musically, the guys were far from finished - some of their best stuff
> was on Instant Replay and Present. By all accounts, the 1969 tour was
> very entertaining, even though attendance was way down. Record sales
> dropped as soon as the tv show was off the air. I think they could've
> had more hits had the machine still been working for them.
Part of the problem, I think the Monkees had in 1969 was that they
weren't really working together as a band in the studio. And they
needed to be working together, whether as musicians or as vocalists.
Mike was very together as a musician and as a producer and should've
been executive producing the sessions for Micky and Davy, letting them
produce their own sessions but strengthening their productions when
and where appropriate. I don't know if another reason they weren't
getting hits had to do with Columbia Pictures or with RCA but as
Columbia Pictures had other record labels, if they weren't that
interested in the Monkees as recording artists, they should've allowed
RCA to have moved them over to the RCA label officially, since they
unofficially were RCA artists. I think RCA could've done more for the
Monkees as a recording act than what they could do with them as joint
owners of the Colgems label. They were only putting in so much of
their money, so having the Monkees on RCA proper might have been the
wiser decision. Rather than investing the money in Colgems, RCA
could've invested their money in the Monkees.
>Paul Revere and the Raiders still had hits in that time period, Mr. Sun Mr. Moon,
> Let Me, Cinderella Sunshine, and a little later Indian Reservation and
> Birds of a Feather. Mark Lindsay even had some solo hits like Silver
> Bird and Arizona. Other teen oriented bands like the Turtles and the
> Grass Roots continued to hit the top 40 in 68-69. Oh well, too late to
> do anything about it now :)
"Indian Reservation" was actually a Mark Lindsay solo tune from what I
recall seeing him say in an interview about the song. He gave the
Raiders the choice of releasing that song as a Raiders tune or "Silver
Bird," I think and they went with "Indian Reservation." Good choice,
I'd say. The Monkees had a few songs that could've been hits but I
think the problem was their corporate sponsors were backing away from
them or their label.
Ron Fowler
could such incompetence continue year after year? lol Aunt Harriet only
had a couple appearances in the final season because Madge Blake was in
poor health, and of course they were trying to cram all the stuff that
had been in two half hour shows to one half hour - and adding Batgirl!
It should have stayed a two night, two part show. The Green Hornet was a
half hour show that Dozier wanted to expand to an hour, but ABC was
reluctant to change things because they were winning the time slot. So
rather than do a second season of half hour shows, Dozier ended the
series.
catg...@aol.com
> Spot on with your comments on Commissioner Gordon and Chief O'Hara! How
> could such incompetence continue year after year? lol
They were well connected, politically? LOL!
>Aunt Harriet only
> had a couple appearances in the final season because Madge Blake was in
> poor health, and of course they were trying to cram all the stuff that
> had been in two half hour shows to one half hour - and adding Batgirl!
Madge Blake was also in "Leave It To Beaver" as Larry Mondello's (gad,
what a name!) long, poor suffering mother. She even looked old then,
too old to have been Larry's mother. I can't recall if Aunt Harriet
was a regular fixture in the Batman comics -- I used to buy all of the
comic book superheroes published by DC Comics, with Superman and
Batman being on my regular monthly buy list when I was a kid.
Commissioner Gordon was a part time fixture in the comics, though he
was never drawn like character actor Neil Hamilton. Kind of opposite,
big and heavyset, and younger! I can't recall if Chief O'Hara was part
of the comic book series although if he was, like Commissioner Gordon
and possibly Aunt Harriet, if she was there, they were minor
characters to the main characters of Batman and Robin and their
supervillains. I haven't bought any of those comics in years (last
time I looked, some of them were around $4 an issue!) but I think DC
Comics "rehabilitated" Catwoman from supercriminal to a superheroine.
Seems like they gave her her own comic book series and you couldn't do
stories built around her as a criminal. The immoral moralists in this
country wouldn't stand for such a thing.
> It should have stayed a two night, two part show.
I'd also have favored a move to making fewer episodes but expanding
the shows to 90 minutes, and doing away with some of the formula in
favor of tighter story lines and scripts. "Batman," like the 1950s
"The Adventures of Superman," had the potential for some very good
shows but both shows were built around the characters as
superpolicemen. The criminals were always firing their guns at
Superman with the bullets bouncing off of his chest (and he looking
mighty ticked about it) and they were that kind of script week after
week after week. Similarly, the criminal acts in Batman were rather
ordinary affairs for the most part. You knew the heroes would get
their men (or women) and their accomplices in the end. The show was
played too much for laughs but a little more seriousness to the mix
could've kept the viewers glued to their seats.
>The Green Hornet was a
> half hour show that Dozier wanted to expand to an hour, but ABC was
> reluctant to change things because they were winning the time slot. So
> rather than do a second season of half hour shows, Dozier ended the
> series.
I would've agreed to a second season but would also have kept working
on ABC to consider expanding the series to an hour. I would've asked
ABC to let me produce a few episodes of the series in a special hour
long format, just to have seen how they did in the ratings. If they
did extremely well, then, ABC would agree to the show being
greenlighted in an hour long format. If the ratings stayed the same or
tank, well, then, the "Green Hornet" could've remained a thirty minute
show. But, the thirty minute format was more suitable for sitcoms and
neither the "Green Hornet" or "Batman" series should've been regarded
as sitcom material. "Batman" unintentionally worked as a sitcom but I
remember reading such treatment kept Hollywood from developing a movie
around "Batman" for a long time. The thought being the series had made
the characters too much of a laughing stock and therefore, not likely
to be taken seriously if made into a movie. Hollywood did seem to
learn that superheroes should never be played too much for
laughs...now, if they could learn the same about supervillains!
Ron Fowler
among the better shows in the series, simply because there was more time
to develop the story. Green Hornet was played straight, but even in the
first season of Batman there was some drama. It was halfway between a
drama and a comedy or spoof, but somewhere along the way it became a
formula - bad guys invade Gotham City/Commissioner calls Batman/Batman
and Robin locate criminals, and get put in some kind of trap from which
there is no escape/Batman and Robin miraculously escape trap/they beat
up criminals. It just became too predictable. i realise that happens in
most series television...and of course, any attempt to break from the
formula usually meets with resistance from the powers that be. Re; The
Monkees. Back to you, catgod :)
catg...@aol.com
> Dozier DID try several two part Green Hornet eps, and I think those were
> among the better shows in the series, simply because there was more time
> to develop the story. Green Hornet was played straight, but even in the
> first season of Batman there was some drama. It was halfway between a
> drama and a comedy or spoof, but somewhere along the way it became a
> formula - bad guys invade Gotham City/Commissioner calls Batman/Batman
> and Robin locate criminals, and get put in some kind of trap from which
> there is no escape/Batman and Robin miraculously escape trap/they beat
> up criminals. It just became too predictable.
Predictable television to me, is what happens you have the same
writers penning almost every script. They go with what's worked before
so often and rarely, if almost never try anything radically different.
They call it keeping the continuity of the show but an outside writer
could just as easily keep the show's continuity going as what an in-
house writer could. Relying on formula devices isn't keeping the
show's continuity going, it's the writer being too lazy to try
somthing different. Generally, the first season of any series is
different from the seasons that follow because the formulas haven't
settled in on the show and crushed out the creativity in the process.
I can't remember but did the "Green Hornet" exist in comic book form
before it was a series? I'm thinking it didn't exist as a comic book
and thinking Dozier and 20th Century Fox probably wanted a show where
they weren't paying rising licensing fees to the comic book publisher
or dealing with that publisher if they weren't happy with the stories
or the manner in which the characters were being played for laughs.
The Batman comic book was serious business in the 60s and while I
think DC Comics had to be pleased that the series was a success, they
also had to be concerned over the way the episodes were making the
characters a joke for such treatment could've hurt sales of the comic
book.
>i realise that happens in
> most series television...and of course, any attempt to break from the
> formula usually meets with resistance from the powers that be. Re; The
> Monkees. Back to you, catgod :)
Most series would benefit from using outside writers penning stories
and scripts. It's less of a powers that be situation and more a case
of keeping the writer's money in house. Last time I seen any price
quotes on writing for television, a well seasoned pro with several
scripts to their credit stood to make at least $30,000 for a one hour
episode. Muiltiply that figure by 22 to 26 episodes for a full season,
you're talking a lot of money. Funny, though. a first time writer
should be the one with an edge as the studio is allowed to pay them
less for their story outline and script. Story outlines and scripts
are or were bought separately though a first time writer (or writers)
submitting the story outline had no guarantee of being given the
chance to write the script. In house writers don't have to worry about
that possibility, unless they don't want to write the script,which
might be the case if they wear several different hats associated with
the show and don't have enough time to work on a script.
Ron Fowler
same man who did the Lone Ranger - George W. Trendle. There were also
Green Hornet comic books and movie series.After the Batman tv series
caught on, the Batman comic book kind of adapted the flavor of the show,
becoming kind of ...well, silly. The longtime Batfans, in many cases,
did not like the series because of the silliness. Batman had always been
dead serious in the comics. Maybe not the Dark Knight of today, but
certainly not the Adam West portrayal. But I agree, they need to shake
things up in the writing department, shows become stagnant after awhile.
I think what the Monkees had in mind for a 3rd season of their series
would've been a good change. More guest stars, more music, maybe some
documentary footage of them on the road like they used in the final ep
of the first season. I would've loved to have seen footage of them on
tour in Australia and Japan. Monkeemania was still alive and well down
under.
TonyP
"Ron Fowler" <lonely...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19437-4B2...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
>I would've loved to have seen footage of them on
> tour in Australia and Japan. Monkeemania was still alive and well down
> under.
Me too, and you are correct, Monkeemania lasted a lot longer here than in
the USA, and yet RCA failed to release "The Monkees Present" here
originally. Even though "Mommy & Daddy" backed with "Good Clean Fun" made
the top 10 as a single. I still can't figure out that decision.
Head did a lot better here though, not saddled by the stupid marketing it
got in the USA.
TonyP.
catg...@aol.com
> The Green Hornet originated as a radio show in the 30's, created by the
> same man who did the Lone Ranger - George W. Trendle. There were also
> Green Hornet comic books and movie series.
Damn! I should've remembered that! I'm slipping in my "old" age.
>After the Batman tv series caught on, the Batman comic book kind of adapted the flavor of the >show, becoming kind of ...well, silly. The longtime Batfans, in many cases,
> did not like the series because of the silliness. Batman had always been
> dead serious in the comics. Maybe not the Dark Knight of today, but
> certainly not the Adam West portrayal.
As a kid during the time the show was on, I liked the series and never
paid that much attention to the silliness, even though I knew it was
heavy on the silly. Not quite as bad as what was on "Lost In Space"
but it was silly enough for people to dismiss as very lightweight. It
wasn't offensive enough to me in any way to prevent me from buying the
comic book, but the series did cause a few friends I knew at the time
to stop buying the comic.
>But I agree, they need to shake things up in the writing department, shows become stagnant >after awhile.
Shake things up or end the series, which most people wouldn't like. I
like "Smallville" but the prolonged bit of Tom Welling playing Clark
Kent as though he were John Boy Walton is old and needs to be dropped.
Same for the "I can't fly" routine and what they have him wearing for
a Superman costume (as the very stupid Red Blue Blur) is more like
Superman as the Dark Knight. Also on the negative side is that almost
everyone on the show seems to know Clark is an off world alien. If the
show's writers were to have him as Superman, there would be no need
for him to have a secret identity. Everyone would know he was
Superman! One small plus for the show is at least the on screen
romance between Welling's Man of Steel and superhottie Erica Durance's
Lois Lane is starting to heat up, although the romance is very
restrained. They need to turn the heat up on that even more, though I
wish they'd give Erica the same kind of hair style she had when she
joined the show. Her current hair style doesn't suit her at all.
> I think what the Monkees had in mind for a 3rd season of their series
> would've been a good change. More guest stars, more music, maybe some
> documentary footage of them on the road like they used in the final ep
> of the first season. I would've loved to have seen footage of them on
> tour in Australia and Japan. Monkeemania was still alive and well down
> under.
They had the concert footage from Phoenix during the first season,
which I've always wondered about. Does it exist in its entirety or
just fragments? I think it was mentioned Raybert filmed a concert in
England in 1967 that was going to be exclusively for English TV,
though I don't think it ever aired. Adding more musical guest stars
might've been a major credibility boost for the Monkees. I read
somewhere that John Lennon was supposed to have guested during the
second season but was unable to do so. Can you imagine one of the
Monkees's variety themed shows having the Beatles as musical guests?
Of course, the Monkees themselves performing live would had to have
tightened as a musical unit by continuing to play together on their
recordings. I think Peter said about the Australian and Japanese
concerts that the Monkees weren't very well rehearsed for those shows.
That was another reason for his departure in late 1968. But, I'd love
to hear some of those Australian and Japanese performances. There was
a claim they played so loud they could be heard several blocks away.
Think that was back before the Who was certified by Guiness as the
loudest band playing live. I don't remember what the decibel level was
on the Who when they were certified as the loudest band but I never
heard a claim about their playing being so loud they could be heard
several blocks away. The Monkees could probably have put in a claim as
the loudest band based on their Australian/Japanese concerts. But,
even if they could find film footage and audio tapes of those
concerts, neither would come close in reproducing the loudness. That's
something that one would had to have been there to have witnessed and
heard.
Ron Fowler
anywhere. It is baffling that you guys didn't get Monkees Present, there
certainly appeared to be an audience for it. Did you get the tv series
in reruns down there? From what I've read, it seems Michael still had a
pretty good fan base when he toured down there in the late 70's.
Ron Fowler
didn't understand why. Even at a young age, though, Lost in Space
seemed pretty silly! Dr. Smith ("shut up you ninny!") and that robot
(saw it at the Sci-Fi Museum in Seattle earlier this year "Warning!
Warning! Danger Will Robinson!"). It's nice to know Billy Mumy moved on
to better things in the years since, co-writing songs with Dewey Bunnell
of America, and recording the classic "Fish Heads". Haven't seen that
show in decades, I didn't see the movie of it, I wonder if they tried to
play it straight?
catg...@aol.com
The "Lost In Space" movie was played a little too straight and wasn't
too good of a movie. Just as you can go overboard with the silliness,
you can go overboard in being too straight. What you get is a very
rigid movie. There was some humor present (such as a battle with some
metallic insects) but there should've been more humor present. The
humor didn't need to be the silly stuff, just the Robinsons and
company trying to cope with their precarious situation.
The Robinsons were something of a dysfunctional family in the movie.
Hardly the kind of family a government would be sending out into space
to check out another world to colonize. John Robinson had a cold
relationship with his son Will, and had an issue with his navigator
Don because of daughter Judy. What did he think? Only seven people
aboard that spacecraft with only two of the people being non-family
members, and Don's going to hold his libido in check forever and not
have sexual relations with Judy every chance he could get? That said,
I still wouldn't mind seeing another "Lost In Space" movie made, but
would like it if they would get everything right. Nothing too silly or
too straight.
TonyP
> Thanks again for the input. Tony. I didn't know Head had been a success
> anywhere. It is baffling that you guys didn't get Monkees Present, there
> certainly appeared to be an audience for it. Did you get the tv series
> in reruns down there?
Yep, they were re-run quite a few times over the years thankfully. And yet
Head was only ever shown twice on local TV that I know of, and the first
time was at least a decade after it's theatrical release. Sure wish we had
DVD's back then!!!!
>From what I've read, it seems Michael still had a
> pretty good fan base when he toured down there in the late 70's.
Yep, saw the concert at the Palais Melbourne, which was released on record.
Full house, a few thousand people. Not as big a venue as Festival Hall where
the Monkees played in 1968 though, and they did four sold out concerts. I
think the Sydney concerts were even bigger.
The video for RIO was highly popular here too, which helped sell the single,
album, and the concert tour.
TonyP.
TonyP
>I think Peter said about the Australian and Japanese
> concerts that the Monkees weren't very well rehearsed for those shows.
Seemed to be exactly the same format as they had been doing for ages, with
the same solo spots and even gags, except for local support acts. (The
Cherokees played backing for their solos.) So I'm not sure how much more
rehersal they really needed anyway.
> That was another reason for his departure in late 1968. But, I'd love
> to hear some of those Australian and Japanese performances. There was
> a claim they played so loud they could be heard several blocks away.
> Think that was back before the Who was certified by Guiness as the
> loudest band playing live. I don't remember what the decibel level was
> on the Who when they were certified as the loudest band but I never
> heard a claim about their playing being so loud they could be heard
> several blocks away. The Monkees could probably have put in a claim as
> the loudest band based on their Australian/Japanese concerts. But,
> even if they could find film footage and audio tapes of those
> concerts, neither would come close in reproducing the loudness. That's
> something that one would had to have been there to have witnessed and
> heard.
I seriously doubt that. I was at the Melbourne concert and like most big
acts of the 60's, you could hardly hear the Monkees over the girls screams.
Loud perhaps, but definitely couldn't compete with 10,000 screaming girls.
But since they were all pretty much in the same boat, it's quite possible
that the Monkees were the loudest at that time. It wasn't until the
seventies that concert sound really took off.
TonyP.
catg...@aol.com
> Head was only ever shown twice on local TV that I know of, and the first
> time was at least a decade after it's theatrical release. Sure wish we had
> DVD's back then!!!!
I don't know if "Head" was ever shown on any of the local TV stations
in the US before it made its debut on CBS's Late Night Movies in 1975,
but I recall it was shown one additional time after that in the 70s
and then wasn't seen again until the late 90s. I remember the TV Guide
movie critic, Judith Crist, didn't like the movie and made some sort
of comments to the effect that the movie was only for fans of the
Monkees or potheads. That was in the day before most critics knew the
movie had been cowritten by actor Jack Nicholson and had a change of
heart about the film.
> Yep, saw the concert at the Palais Melbourne, which was released on record.
> Full house, a few thousand people. Not as big a venue as Festival Hall where
> the Monkees played in 1968 though, and they did four sold out concerts. I
> think the Sydney concerts were even bigger.
One thing I didn't like about the "Palais" album were all of the
tracks being banded and faded out, except for the segue between
"Silver Moon" and the piledriver version of "Nadine Is It You." The
intro on "Nadine" was very Deep Purplish and loud. I found myself
wishing the band had kept that fierce energy going all the way through
the song. Btw, were there any songs Nez performed at that concert not
included on the "Palais" album? It was kind of weird that the album
didn't include any of the songs from the "Radio Engine...Photon Wing"
album, just songs from Nez's RCA years (excluding "Nadine").
> The video for RIO was highly popular here too, which helped sell the single,
> album, and the concert tour.
I'm surprised the video for "Rio" didn't turn up here on the "Midnight
Special" or "Saturday Night Live" programs. Might've helped Nez's US
sales if those programs had aired the video. The video was aired on,
of all things, the syndicated "Don Kirshner's Rock Concert." His
program also aired the video for "Cruisin'," but the Donfather's
program wasn't being carried by that many stations. I think 1979 was
the last year it was produced as I don't recall seeing it ever in the
early 80s.
Chief Wild Eagle
"catgod29@home_on_the_range.com" <catg...@aol.com> wrote:
Isn't it the 'Palais' LP that Nez uses to' "slice-and-dice" a tomato
in "Elephant Parts" or "Television Parts"?
My guess is that the LP is not one of his favorites. Is it even on CD?
Ron Fowler
but at the time of release he said that it was honest, unlike most live
albums that are heavily overdubbed in the studio. Other than a couple
mistakes that he said were too horrible to go unrepaired, the concert
was put out "as is" - and from just one concert, not a series of them.
TonyP
> One thing I didn't like about the "Palais" album were all of the
> tracks being banded and faded out, except for the segue between
> "Silver Moon" and the piledriver version of "Nadine Is It You." The
> intro on "Nadine" was very Deep Purplish and loud. I found myself
> wishing the band had kept that fierce energy going all the way through
> the song. Btw, were there any songs Nez performed at that concert not
> included on the "Palais" album? It was kind of weird that the album
> didn't include any of the songs from the "Radio Engine...Photon Wing"
> album, just songs from Nez's RCA years (excluding "Nadine").
He did quite a few of the songs from "Radio Engine.." as you would expect,
but I guess they didn't want them on the live album as well. And obviously
didn't want to make it a double. The full concert was about 80 minutes, and
he didn't do much talking. He could probably put them all on a CD now if he
wanted to, but that seems unlikely. I never kept a set list however.
TonyP.
catg...@aol.com
> but I guess they didn't want them on the live album as well. And obviously
> didn't want to make it a double. The full concert was about 80 minutes, and
> he didn't do much talking. He could probably put them all on a CD now if he
> wanted to, but that seems unlikely. I never kept a set list however.
What a pity the songs from "Radio Engine" weren't included. I don't
believe Pacific Arts ever released a double album but as Nez was by
then using his own money to pay for the manufacturing of the albums,
guess no one could blame him. Videoranch/Rio reissued the "Palais"
album with three bonus tracks from other concerts but I would've
favored any such reissue having the entire original concert...without
the fade between songs.
TonyP
> What a pity the songs from "Radio Engine" weren't included. I don't
> believe Pacific Arts ever released a double album but as Nez was by
> then using his own money to pay for the manufacturing of the albums,
> guess no one could blame him. Videoranch/Rio reissued the "Palais"
> album with three bonus tracks from other concerts but I would've
> favored any such reissue having the entire original concert...without
> the fade between songs.
Me too, I'd buy that. Even bigger pity it wasn't filmed and they could
release it all on a DVD!
TonyP.
Ron Fowler
sounded rather lifeless, though. "Joanne" on this album can't compare
with the Magnetic South version. "Propinquity" is a nice version,
though. I've played both arrangements in my shows.
catg...@aol.com
Fading the tracks takes away the feeling that one is listening to a
concert recording and more to a studio recording with dubbed in
applause, yells and whistles. The original album did sound kind of
lifeless, which I believe was mixed by guitarist Al Perkins. I don't
have the album on CD (yet) but maybe Nez remixed the album for CD
release and improved upon the sound. As for the live versions of the
songs, well, very rarely will they be crabon copies of the studio
recordings. I always thought of "Grand Ennui" and "Roll with the
Flow" as rock tunes, though the country rock version of GE was
alright. As for RWTF (and the rest of the songs from ATHJKOC), I think
of the original recording as being something akin to a demo recording,
a song whose potential was better captured at the "Palais." But, I
still thought the song had yet to reach its best potential. I still
prefer the studio version of "Propinquity" from the "Nevada Fighter"
sessions over all other versions. But, "Some of Shelly's Blues" was
the worst of the original "Palais" tracks, as far as being lifeless.
That arrangement was a little too laid back.
Ron Fowler
Palais songs. You mentioned the thundering intro to Nadine. The country
flavor of the songs on Palais was downplayed, but they didn't really
rock, either. Al Perkins is a good player, but probably not as good a
fit for Nez and Red Rhodes. Not a bad album, but I suspect a live set by
the First National Band would've been more exciting. They sure got it
done in the studio!
catg...@aol.com
> I would have liked the band to pick up the tempo on several of the
> Palais songs. You mentioned the thundering intro to Nadine. The country
> flavor of the songs on Palais was downplayed, but they didn't really
> rock, either.
Granted, the songs could've rocked out a little more. "Grand Ennui"
had kind of a bluesy feel to it, which might've been helped along by a
sax solo. It would've been nice if "Propinquity" and "Some of Shelly's
Blues" had been given a Byrds-like arrangement. As for the downplaying
of the country flavor, well, Nez's songs have always worked well in
most musical genres.
>Al Perkins is a good player, but probably not as good a
> fit for Nez and Red Rhodes.
Rhodes wasn't a member of Nez's band when Al Perkins was in the band.
If you notice, Perkins and bassist David MacKay were the only members
of the Palais band playing on the "Infinite Rider" album. Perkins was
a good fit for Nez's band and Nez's songs. Compare the electric guitar
work of Jay Lacy and Bob Warford on the "Ranch Stash" album versus
Perkins's (and Nez's) playing on the "Infinite Rider" album. The
electric guitar work on "Ranch Stash" only really shined on
"Release" (was that a song about Peter?) but just barely. Everywhere
else it wasn't very noticeable in the mix. Perkins might've been able
to have gotten more out of the "Ranch Stash" songs than Lacy and
Warford.
>Not a bad album, but I suspect a live set by the First National Band would've been more exciting. They sure >got it done in the studio!
Maybe but Ware and London both quit or were let go by Nez pretty early
on. Nez later said that the songs outgrew Ware and London. I thought
that was a polite way of explaining their departures as I didn't think
they were that bad as musicians. But, it was said there were
disagreements between the band during the "Nevada Fighter" sessions
which began in 1970, so could Nez have had a problem with their
playing? The FNB came together in late 1969 and were broke up a year
later. That Nez had to finish the album with session players suggests
that someone may have thought their playing wasn't up to snuff.
Not necessarily saying that it was Nez -- someone at RCA could've been
griping about what they were hearing or wasn't hearing. RCA was
putting the pressure on Nez to come up with another "Joanne" and maybe
someone at the record company thought Nez's musicians weren't strong
enough to be playing on the record. And since the record company was
the one paying for the sessions, that gave them the leverage to
pressure Nez into using studio musicians.
leno...@gmail.com
> "catgod29@home_on_the_range.com" <catgo...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:15e87d3c-3af9-4990...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >Elvis was asked by both Carson and Bishop to appear on
> > their shows but neither were willing to pay the fee demanded by
> > Presley's manager. Bishop offered $2500 and was shocked when Elvis's
> > manager accepted, only to be shocked even further when Parker informed
> > Bishop that it would cost him an additional $47,500 for Elvis to get
> > up and leave. He should've paid it as he would've had an exclusive
> > that no other talk show could've claimed: the only talk show
> > appearance by the King of Rock and Roll!
>
> They should have accepted, and then simply tell him it was OK if he didn't
> want to leave :-)
>
> TonyP.
Elvis' manager was nuts. I'm sure Elvis never knew about this either.
It would have been great to see him do some talk shows.
leno...@gmail.com
> Years back, I got a tape called "Monkee Business" from the pages of
> Goldmine - compilation of ads, guest appearances from the 60's and 80's
> - Yardlley Black Label, Kelloggs, Johnny Cash Show, Kool Aid, Head
> trailer, Laugh In, Oh My My promo clip, Nez onstage with the guys in
> '86, etc. Also got the Happening Monkees show through Goldmine. I've no
> idea what's listed in there now - the last time I saw Goldmine a few
> years ago, it had shrunk considerably. Most of the advertisers abandoned
> them for the internet.
I do have some of the rare TV appearances in my collection and yes
everything has pretty much gone to the internet these days. Hopefully
more will turn up soon.
Ron Fowler
tapes and discs.
catg...@aol.com
> It would have been great to see him do some talk shows.
I don't normally defend Elvis's manager but in the case of the talk
shows, most of the celebrities who appeared on them were nowhere near
as big as what Elvis was. The Beatles were but they never appeared as
a group on any of those talk shows either. Outside of John and Paul's
joint appearance on the "Tonight Show" in 1968, all other apperances
were solo appearances. Elvis's manager was right in asking for a lot
of money given Elvis's stature in the entertainment community. That
said, however, his manager could be quite petty about some stuff.
During the filming of one of Elvis's movies, Col. Parker noticed Elvis
was wearing his own watch and stopped the filming and demanded Elvis
be paid something like $25,000 for the use of his watch. Elvis had to
be dying from embarassment over that one.
Ron Fowler
Elvis appearing on talk shows? Can't believe that would have helped
Elvis' career in the 60's and 70's. It would've been cool, though, if he
had done the Sullivan show a few more times. And a few more tv specials.
Would've broken up the monotony of all those movies. With Parker, it was
all about the money, and when movies like Flaming Star and Wild in the
Country didn't make as much money as the musicals, it was pretty much
over for Elvis attempting to be a seious actor. Just one travelogue
musical after another. I'll admit I enjoy most of them - Blue Hawaii,
G.I. Blues, Girls, Girls, Girls, It Happened at the World's Fair and Fun
in Acapulco are always fun to watch, but by the time they got to Girl
Happy, Harum Scarum and Kissin' Cousins, things were pretty grim.
catg...@aol.com
> Colonel Parker made some bad decisions, but he also made many good ones.
Parker's good decisions were at the beginning of Elvis's career with
RCA. He got Elvis a pretty high royalty rate at the time for the
singles and albums, but after that, he never sought an increase in
those rates. Ever. And never an audit of the books to verify RCA was
paying Elvis on everything he was owed. Another bad decision was
Parker never demanded a producer's royalty for Elvis from RCA, despite
the fact Elvis produced his own sessions. Parker had the publishing on
most of the songs, which was a good decision but he treated the
songwriters shabbily and they eventually left. Then, he was left with
trying to get a percentage on songs already published and most
publishers and songwriters were not willing to give Elvis's publishing
companies a slight percentage in exchange for Elvis recording their
songs.
> Elvis appearing on talk shows? Can't believe that would have helped
> Elvis' career in the 60's and 70's. It would've been cool, though, if he
> had done the Sullivan show a few more times. And a few more tv specials.
Talk shows in the 60s might've helped on some of the singles on the
chart positions. Some of Elvis's 45s in the 70s might've done better
if he had appeared on a talk show or two. As for doing the Sullivan
show a few more times, I don't believe Sullivan would'e wanted to have
paid out more money than what he had already spent in having Elvis on
his program. If you notice, the artists who were on the Sullivan show
on a somewhat regular basis were middle of the road performers,
artists who weren't going to cost an arm and a leg to have on the
program. Even the Beatles made no further appearances on the Sullivan
show after a short time. Same with the Stones. The criteria seemed to
be Sullivan needed the heavyweights more than they needed him while
the lightweights needed Sullivan more than he may have wanted them.
> Would've broken up the monotony of all those movies. With Parker, it was
> all about the money, and when movies like Flaming Star and Wild in the
> Country didn't make as much money as the musicals, it was pretty much
> over for Elvis attempting to be a seious actor. Just one travelogue
> musical after another. I'll admit I enjoy most of them - Blue Hawaii,
> G.I. Blues, Girls, Girls, Girls, It Happened at the World's Fair and Fun
> in Acapulco are always fun to watch, but by the time they got to Girl
> Happy, Harum Scarum and Kissin' Cousins, things were pretty grim.
The movies were pretty lightweight affairs but so too were the beach
movies with Frankie and Annette and the movies with Rock Hudson and
Doris Day. The majority of John Wayne's movies were also pretty much
interchangeable, as far as script and story was concerned. That's not
to say Parker should've kept Elvis on a steady diet of lightweight
musicals but by the time Elvis's movie roles were getting better, he
stopped making them in favor of live concert appearances. And there,
as with the movies before, Col. Parker rode Elvis into the ground with
no concern for his artistic goals and especially his health.
Ron Fowler
and then the concert grind in the 70's. Parker never seemed to figure
out Elvis might benefit from some variety. It's sad that Elvis could not
find it in himself more often to stand up to Parker. On the few
occasions he did, like the 68 special, and the 69 Memphis sessions, the
results were excellent. I think Parker was simply out of his element in
the rock world of the 70's, and the late 60's.
TonyP
Funny I thought Viva Las Vegas, Girl Happy and Tickle Me were much better
than It happened at the Worlds Fair or Girls, Girls, Girls.
Harem Scarum was widely recognised by many critics as Elvis's worst movie,
although I thought Double Trouble and Easy Come, Easy Go were worse myself.
His best movie IMO was easily King Creole (A stone for Danny Fisher). And it
didn't "bomb". They didn't really attempt another serious one until Charro,
and that wasn't anywhere near the same standard. Although I don't think any
of his movies actually lost money, since they spent so little on them apart
from Elvis cut. Probably the main reason why they didn't do another King
Creole, since that one had many top actors who also demanded real income,
not to mention far better production, direction, cinematography, etc.
And Loving You managed to combine the later obligatory album of songs, and
still be of reasonable quality. As good as Flaming Star and Wild in the
Country IMO. And it did much better at the box office, probably because of
it.
TonyP.
TonyP
>by the time Elvis's movie roles were getting better, he
> stopped making them in favor of live concert appearances. And there,
> as with the movies before, Col. Parker rode Elvis into the ground with
> no concern for his artistic goals and especially his health.
Your telling me, look at his concert schedule for those years before his
death.
1970 - 137
1971 - 156
1972 - 164
1973 - 168
1974 - 152
1975 - 106
1976 - 100
and to June 1977 - 54
Well over 100 concerts every year for 7 1/2 years straight!
And how many artists these days can manage an average of 3 albums, and 2
movies every year plus live performances etc.
They are much smarter of course, since Elvis could have done 1/10th the
work, still been RICH, and possibly alive today.
Pity Parker hadn't died long before Elvis!
TonyP.
catg...@aol.com
> death.
>
> 1970 - 137
> 1971 - 156
> 1972 - 164
> 1973 - 168
> 1974 - 152
> 1975 - 106
> 1976 - 100
> and to June 1977 - 54
>
> Well over 100 concerts every year for 7 1/2 years straight!
A lot of that total included Elvis's Vegas shows but even there, Elvis
was playing two shows daily. Still more concerts than what an average
act might do in any given year. The effect was still the same as the
constant non-stop shows drained Elvis physically. He didn't want to be
out on the road so much, playing the same cities year after year.
> And how many artists these days can manage an average of 3 albums, and 2
> movies every year plus live performances etc.
> They are much smarter of course, since Elvis could have done 1/10th the
> work, still been RICH, and possibly alive today.
> Pity Parker hadn't died long before Elvis!
The last two years of Elvis's life resulted in only three new albums.
By that time, most artists were cutting back to one new album once a
year or every other year. RCA still expected three new albums from
Elvis but once he cut back because being in the studio had become a
constant hassle by Parker to get some of the publishing, RCA started
coming up with new reissues of his older material. Some of their
reissues weren't too bad but then you had something like "Pure Gold,"
which was a low budget effort, almost a Camden album really though the
label still carried the Victor label and carried a $5.98 retail
price.
It's a pity that Parker didn't die before Elvis as things might have
been different. Elvis was ready to get rid of Parker in '73 but Parker
conned him with a two million dollar bill for services rendered. Elvis
was prepared to pay that to be rid of Parker and go with someone else,
but his dad talked him out of it because his dad didn't want Elvis
spending his money out of fear he'd be broke. He didn't like Elvis
having people work for him although I think he must've known that some
of it, like security, was necessary. He still had rabid fans who
could've unintentionally hurt him by trying to grab some of his
clothing or jewelry. That had to be scary for him, though I've heard
that the fingers on which hr wore rings were always taped above the
rings to prevent a fan from grabbing them. I always wondered about
that as I think any fan trying to grab one of his rings could've
ripped the bandages and possibly have scraped or broken his fingers.
catg...@aol.com
There was a story at the time of Elvis's death that the next tour he
was to have started was going to be his last tour for a while. There
was also a rumor at the same time to the effect that Parker had been
fired by Elvis and was only staying on to see that the next tour ran
smoothly. Parker denied the rumor and said he and Elvis were looking
forward to new ventures in the future. If Parker had decided not to
schedule Elvis for any new tours or Vegas appearances for a while, his
decision was one that came too late to save Elvis's life. His run down
began right around late 1973 to early 1974, and that's when Parker
should've stopped the tours. Part of that run down was drug related
but Elvis was in ill health much of those last three years. Almost
everyone could see it coming, everyone but those who were closest
around gun.
catg...@aol.com
> Funny I thought Viva Las Vegas, Girl Happy and Tickle Me were much better
> than It happened at the Worlds Fair or Girls, Girls, Girls.
> Harem Scarum was widely recognised by many critics as Elvis's worst movie,
> although I thought Double Trouble and Easy Come, Easy Go were worse myself.
I think a few movie critics today recognize "Viva Las Vegas" as a film
classic. They still don't hold too high of an opinion about "Girl
Happy" or "Tickle Me," although I think that both movies are
underrated and underappreciated. "Harum Scarum" was by no means
Elvis's worst movie. His worst for me would come down to the two you
mentioned plus "Speedway." I'd rate DT above ECEG and "Speedway."
Funny bit: actor Edward Faulkner, who played Brad in "Tickle Me," was
in the opening scene for ECEG, where Elvis is seen in a boat with
three other actors (inc. Faulkner) singing the title song. After that
opening, Faulkner isn't seen any further, so one wonders what became
of his character. He wasn't an A-list actor but he was a very sought
out character actor and you didn't waste an actor like him on just one
scene.
> His best movie IMO was easily King Creole (A stone for Danny Fisher). And it
> didn't "bomb". They didn't really attempt another serious one until Charro,
> and that wasn't anywhere near the same standard. Although I don't think any
> of his movies actually lost money, since they spent so little on them apart
> from Elvis cut. Probably the main reason why they didn't do another King
> Creole, since that one had many top actors who also demanded real income,
> not to mention far better production, direction, cinematography, etc.
Another funny bit: Harold Robbins, who wrote "A Stone for Danny
Fisher" apparently didn't like the fact that his book was made into an
Elvis movie. From what I recall he didn't like KC or Elvis at all and
held higher hopes for the movie of his book being something other than
an Elvis movie. But, "King Creole" was the one Elvis movie that
finally won over the critics and made them realize that Elvis had
great potential as an actor. Pity Parker didn't try to find similar
roles for Elvis as KC presented Elvis as a dramatic actor and also
showed that you could still have a movie of great quality and still
find a way to include ten songs in the movie.
> And Loving You managed to combine the later obligatory album of songs, and
> still be of reasonable quality. As good as Flaming Star and Wild in the
> Country IMO. And it did much better at the box office, probably because of
> it.
Elvis's movies are in a way, like many of the great comedy films of
the 1930s and 1940s, and the actors and actresses who appeared in
them. The critics of those times dismissed the movies as having been a
waste and that no one would remember the movies or their actors at
all. Of course, those movies still play on cable or late night TV and
most of those actors (comedians like the Marx brtothers, Laurel and
Hardy, Mae West, W.C. Fields, et al) are well remembered. Elvis's
movies, good, bad or somewhere inbetween, will keep his memory alive
for years to come. And the songs in those movies (bad as many of them
are) will help keep the interest in his music, although it's more a
pity most of Elvis's movie songs were written by his publishing
companies' lightweight songwriters rather than the heavyweight writers
who wrote for him at one time.
Ron Fowler
of course the very lovely Jocelyn Lane makes it a pleasure to watch. But
the quality went down around the time of Kissin' Cousins, the first of
several Elvis movies directed by the "king of the quickies", Sam
Katzman. The earlier movies obviously had a bigger budget - location
shooting, and notable costars. By 65-65, they were just cranking them
out. I still enjoy some of them, though. Frankie and Johnny was at least
a little different, Elvis as a riverboat gambler..well, okay, a singing
riverboat gambler....and Harry Morgan is always fun to see in action. By
the time Elvis was making better movies, things like Charro and Change
of Habit, the public had lost interest. Maybe a good way back into films
in the 70's would've been for Elvis to take a role where he wasn't the
star of the flim (like Ricky Nelson did back in 59, co-starring in Rio
Bravo with John Wayne, Dean Martin and Walter Brennan). Parker never
would've alllowed Elvis to be in anything where he didn't get top
billing, though. Actually, the best role for Elvis was one that came
along years after his death - Elvis Wilbury. George Harrison talked
about the Wilburys recording a song with Elvis' voice on it (after Roy
"Lefty Wilbury" died), but they decided against it. Elvis had enough of
a sense of humour to have enjoyed working with those guys. He especially
enjoyed poking fun at himself and his image.
TonyP
> A lot of that total included Elvis's Vegas shows but even there, Elvis
> was playing two shows daily. Still more concerts than what an average
> act might do in any given year. The effect was still the same as the
> constant non-stop shows drained Elvis physically. He didn't want to be
> out on the road so much, playing the same cities year after year.
If he had dumped Parker he could have done a world tour or two, instead of
playing the same cities. We never got to see him even once :-(
> The last two years of Elvis's life resulted in only three new albums.
Sure, and a couple of hunderd concerts. Still far more than most artists on
both counts, even at his least prolific!
> By that time, most artists were cutting back to one new album once a
> year or every other year. RCA still expected three new albums from
> Elvis but once he cut back because being in the studio had become a
> constant hassle by Parker to get some of the publishing, RCA started
> coming up with new reissues of his older material. Some of their
> reissues weren't too bad but then you had something like "Pure Gold,"
> which was a low budget effort, almost a Camden album really though the
> label still carried the Victor label and carried a $5.98 retail
> price.
You can't blame Elvis for RCA's greed though. And record companies haven't
changed!
> It's a pity that Parker didn't die before Elvis as things might have
> been different. Elvis was ready to get rid of Parker in '73 but Parker
> conned him with a two million dollar bill for services rendered. Elvis
> was prepared to pay that to be rid of Parker and go with someone else,
> but his dad talked him out of it because his dad didn't want Elvis
> spending his money out of fear he'd be broke. He didn't like Elvis
> having people work for him although I think he must've known that some
> of it, like security, was necessary. He still had rabid fans who
> could've unintentionally hurt him by trying to grab some of his
> clothing or jewelry. That had to be scary for him, though I've heard
> that the fingers on which hr wore rings were always taped above the
> rings to prevent a fan from grabbing them. I always wondered about
> that as I think any fan trying to grab one of his rings could've
> ripped the bandages and possibly have scraped or broken his fingers.
I seriously doubt any of that. I've never seen a photo with such tape, and
Elvis was usually shielded from his fans so well, they never got near enough
for him to bother. And $2 million was chicken feed to Elvis by 1973!
To Parker as well I bet.
TonyP.