Goodbye, Sort Of - Please Read
§crat
Yes, by goodbye, it means I'm kind of leaving the group. First,
I'd like to say something before you start cheering.
The person you've seen is really not me, granted you can choose
not to believe this, but I'm really a very nice, caring person. Some
of you invoked a bad response from me, pushed my buttons and I became
someone I didn't like, hence, I'm leaving. I don't like the person
you saw here, it's not me and I'm sorry for all the crap I've said,
etc. I've been going through a very bad time in my life since about
March and I guess I took it out on people I didn't know, for that I'm
truly sorry. I heard stories that I can't prove aside from word of
mouth and I trust the people who told me, and I used it against
people. I'm sorry. I hope you'll believe me, I hope you'll accept my
apologies. I know that if you met me in person, you'd see I'm truly
not the bitch I've been on here. I've made some good friends here,
and I plan to keep them, but I felt need to justify my actions with
this note. The IP thing was my way of trying to help this mess, but
it failed and I came out on the bottom.
If you want to reply, please do, I'll be lurking. If a good
Monkees subject comes up, I'll post to it. If it's a bitch session,
I'll ignore it. I'm taking the adult approach and acting like one now
and leaving my child like ways behind. Yes, I did act childish, I am
a grown adult and I should not act that way, but granted, I was not
the only one.
Anyway, that it is, I hope you all will accept my apologies, they
are from the heart.
Best Wishes,
Patricia
LLeisa
"T." <easywri...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:14585c71.02101...@posting.google.com...
> crat <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
news:<bknlqu0u2cgibrj5q...@4ax.com>...
> > To all of you here,
> >
it's not me and I'm sorry for all the crap I've said,
> > etc. I've been going through a very bad time in my life since about
> > March and I guess I took it out on people I didn't know, for that I'm
> > truly sorry. I heard stories that I can't prove aside from word of
> > mouth and I trust the people who told me, and I used it against
> > people. I'm sorry.
>
> it. Obviously , by this post, you have some conscience,
I don't think so. This reads to me as nothing more than "feel sorry for me,
I've had a bad day/week/month/life". Too bad so sad. If she'd just had a
pissy day or two, that'd be one thing. But she's been a supreme asshole pest
of the highest order for months. Inexcusable in my eyes. Take responsibility
for yourself and don't blame your behavior on your circumstances or on other
people's actions.
Leisa
the whole lyrics of The Eagle's "Get Over It" blaring in my head.
§crat
always right, only my husband thinks he married "Miss Always Right",
LOL That is why I posted this, I realized I was coming off really,
well, not me.
On 14 Oct 2002 17:12:33 -0700, easywri...@yahoo.com (T.):
>crat <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message news:<bknlqu0u2cgibrj5q...@4ax.com>...
>> To all of you here,
>>
>> Yes, by goodbye, it means I'm kind of leaving the group. ........ it's not me and I'm sorry for all the crap I've said,
>> etc. I've been going through a very bad time in my life since about
>> March and I guess I took it out on people I didn't know, for that I'm
>> truly sorry. I heard stories that I can't prove aside from word of
>> mouth and I trust the people who told me, and I used it against
>> people. I'm sorry.
>
>You should be. That was ridiculous behavior and there's no excuse for
>it. Obviously , by this post, you have some conscience, which means
>you must - in some small way - be able to think for yourself. I
>suggest you try to expand that and don't believe everything handed to
>you by people with an agenda to push who will USE others like you to
>push it for them. What did you get out of furthering their agenda but
>made a fool of ? What did you get out of pushing someone else's idea,
>but argued with when you didn't have anything to back up your words ?
>Did you think every single person who corrected you was wrong and only
>you were right? That was arrogant as hell.
>
>
>I hope you'll believe me, I hope you'll accept my
>> apologies....<snip>....
>> Anyway, that it is, I hope you all will accept my apologies, they
>> are from the heart.
>
>
>If they are from your heart, and if you are as contrite as you say
>then you will change your behavior for the better and I, for one,
>support that completely. I would welcome some posts from you that were
>on-topic, not repeating lies you'd been fed, not parroting someone
>else, not causing trouble. If you really are the nice person you say,
>I'd love to see that person posting here. I'd enjoy hearing from that
>Patricia.
>
>
>
>Therra
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Best Wishes,
>> Patricia
§crat
you had to now take care of him, wouldn't you start feeling a little
sorry for yourself and being a little pissy to others. I was at a
point in my life where I didn't want to admit to myself that I needed
to buck up and deal with it, so I took it out on people over the
internet, on AMM, I guess I figured if everyone else was bitching at
each other, why no join in the fun, let off some steam... but it
didn't make me feel better, hence why I posted this. I'm sorry you
don't believe me, I don't want pity, I hate pity, I just wanted y'all
to see the real me. That other person was my "bad side", I hate it
when it shows it's ugly head.
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:22:20 GMT, "LLeisa" <lei...@att.com>:
T.
> Well, if your husband had been diagnosed with an incurable disease and
> you had to now take care of him, wouldn't you start feeling a little
> sorry for yourself and being a little pissy to others. I was at a
> point in my life where I didn't want to admit to myself that I needed
> to buck up and deal with it, so I took it out on people over the
> internet, on AMM, I guess I figured if everyone else was bitching at
> each other, why no join in the fun, let off some steam... but it
> didn't make me feel better, hence why I posted this. I'm sorry you
> don't believe me, I don't want pity, I hate pity, I just wanted y'all
> to see the real me. That other person was my "bad side", I hate it
> when it shows it's ugly head.
I'm sorry you have difficulties in your life. Welcome to Earth. I know
people who are gracious under the worst of all possible circumstances
and diseases. It's always a choice. You make it. No one else does.
Good luck.
T.
§crat
hit us like a ton of bricks, I took it much worse than he did and I
behaved badly. I don't know how some people can be hit with shitty
luck and act like a saint... wish I could!
On 15 Oct 2002 14:16:58 -0700, easywri...@yahoo.com (T.):
Nadine Sandauer
"§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
news:ck1pqu0tp2g8ubgn5...@4ax.com...
> I tried being gracious, I really did... but it's so hard and it just
> hit us like a ton of bricks, I took it much worse than he did and I
> behaved badly. I don't know how some people can be hit with shitty
> luck and act like a saint... wish I could!
You know Scrat, it's beyond comprehension that anyone would spend SO
MUCH TIME on a computer newsgroup, arguing with total and complete
strangers on a muli-daily basis. It's sick, really, that you don't have a
more production and interesting life - that you have to rely on alienating
strangers
over the computer to get your jollies. What an empty existance, don't
you think? Where's the fulfillment? Are these the stories you're going to
tell your grandchildren about, if you ever have any? Geeze Louise!
And then, hysterically, you apologize to complete strangers - people you
know nothing about, people who really don't CARE about you, or your apology.
If this is all you have, m'dear, throw your computer out the window and
interactive with live people, for a change.
ns
Shoessuedeblues2
>You're real good at that aren't ya? Talk about having an agenda to push
>something and in most cases cause trouble....
>
>
>
>"T." <easywri...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:14585c71.02101...@posting.google.com...
>| crat <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
>news:<bknlqu0u2cgibrj5q...@4ax.com>...
LLeisa
news:<im8oqu0vdesf40nt2...@4ax.com>...
> > Well, if your husband had been diagnosed with an incurable disease and
> > you had to now take care of him, wouldn't you start feeling a little
> > sorry for yourself and being a little pissy to others.
*I* have an incurable disease (two, actually). And while neither are life
threatening, both are uncomfortable and painful. I deal with it. I don't
take it out on a group of strangers who had nothing to do with it.
Grow up and learn to cope. If you can't handle it, seek a support group or
counseling, or both.
Leisa
§crat
<sand...@cox.net>:
>You know Scrat, it's beyond comprehension that anyone would spend SO
>MUCH TIME on a computer newsgroup, arguing with total and complete
>strangers on a muli-daily basis.
Currently waiting to start training on a job, I have nothing to do...
I've lived on the internet since 1995, I love it. It's a hobby.
Well, messing with people heads isn't, I leave that to the hubby...
> It's sick, really, that you don't have a more production and interesting life
Try having a productive life when your current income is less then
your rent...
>- that you have to rely on alienating >strangers
>over the computer to get your jollies.
Wasn't trying to get any jollies. I should have stayed away from this
group when I saw how rude most of the people were being to each other.
>What an empty existance, don't you think? Where's the fulfillment?
Pretty much... No fulfillment.
>Are these the stories you're going to tell your grandchildren about, if you ever have any? Geeze Louise!
Can't have children, next?
>And then, hysterically, you apologize to complete strangers - people you
>know nothing about, people who really don't CARE about you, or your apology.
A few might actually care. I did it because I know what it's like to
be bashed, and no I'm not talking about on here (although it did
happen) and well, I didn't like the feeling, I would have liked people
to say hey, I said some really mean things to you, I'm sorry, I didn't
mean it.
>
>If this is all you have, m'dear, throw your computer out the window and
>interactive with live people, for a change.
Let's see, small town, only place to interact is a bar, somehow I
don't think that's more productive. I have to stay home right now and
take care of my husband. Once I start work, maybe I'll meet some
people, but when you are a nurse maid, it's hard to go out and meet
folks.
>
>ns
>
>
>
§crat
reply) I didn't, Sarah did. Just wanted to make that clear.
On 15 Oct 2002 21:33:03 GMT, shoessue...@aol.com
(Shoessuedeblues2):
§crat
apologized. I wasn't intentionally taking it out on anybody, I didn't
realize it until I really looked at what I was writing and went, woah,
who's the bitch...
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:07:14 GMT, "LLeisa" <lei...@att.com>:
Estrella
> *I* have an incurable disease (two, actually). And while neither are life
> threatening, both are uncomfortable and painful. I deal with it. I don't
> take it out on a group of strangers who had nothing to do with it.
>
> Grow up and learn to cope. If you can't handle it, seek a support group or
> counseling, or both.
>
> Leisa
Word. Both my parents have incurable diseases, managable
(at this point), but incurable. Before we get into the
"this disease is worse than that disease" mode, I wouldn't
dare come to this place and blurt "the insurance is not
enough, there's not enough time in the day to take care,
and the neighborhood kids are vandalizing the mobility
van, etc. etc.". "Support groups" aren't my favorite thang
either, but bringing my personal problems here on
a music newsgroup is just plain tacky with a capital T -
it inadvertantly makes some sensitive posters help
bear my problems on their shoulders, when they were
not asking to bear my problems.
There are/were a few MNBs here that act the way they act,
and they are easy to co-exist with, imho. The thing is
they usually don't blurt out their life problems to
100 million people, they **especially** don't blurt out their
life problems in order to explain their bitchiness. If they
are bitchy, probably because they got a bone to pick
and they will pick it! <g>
If a person is bitchy because they have a menstrual
cramp that is an 11 on the Ricter scale, and they
advertise that as the reason they are bitchy ("though
I'm not the bitchy kind of person"); what good will it do?
What purpose does it have? If pity is not the goal, what
is? Obviously we can't send Midol through the internet;
into one modem and out the other.
Last retorical thought of this post, considering that
the posters here aren't prime examples of Pollyanna,
(except for Barbara Booth who IS a doll)
does this group of strangers in any way AT ALL
have more benefits of being around it than a support
group for cerebral palsy, Multiple Sclerosis,
leukodystrophy, proencephalic cysts and/or
Aicardi Syndrome - where there are more people
with a similar lifestyle?
The non-laconic chick,
Estrella
http://members.tripod.com/~s3tar/monkees/faq.html
Estrella
> Leisa
> the whole lyrics of The Eagle's "Get Over It" blaring in my head.
Really? I got this whole chorus of a popular Carly Simon
song repeating and repeating in my head. That's what
I get for listening to a classical music station<g>.
Nadine Sandauer
>> > It's sick, really, that you don't have a more production and
interesting life
>
> Try having a productive life when your current income is less then
> your rent...
>
books
out of the public library is FREE <flash!> You could take up walking...
builds strong
muscles and burns calories, and it's FREE! There's a zillion free things to
occupy ones
time, that would make you a better person, than hanging out on your computer
ALL DAY LONG. I mean, I could understand if you doing something
constructive on it,
or even mindless surfing, but all you do is argue with strangers about the
intimate lives
of other strangers, spending hours looking up IP addresses, and harrassing
them.
I ask you sincerely, isn't that wierd behavior? Let me add you're not the
only wierd one when
it comes to that behavior, and as Ward Cleaver once said, "either a thing is
either right or wrong,
and if it's wrong, it doesn't matter HOW MANY PEOPLE do it, it's still
wrong.
ns, leave it to beaver fan <g>
§crat
<pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com>:
>
>Word. Both my parents have incurable diseases, managable
>(at this point), but incurable. Before we get into the
>"this disease is worse than that disease" mode, I wouldn't
>dare come to this place and blurt "the insurance is not
>enough, there's not enough time in the day to take care,
>and the neighborhood kids are vandalizing the mobility
>van, etc. etc.". "Support groups" aren't my favorite thang
>either, but bringing my personal problems here on
>a music newsgroup is just plain tacky with a capital T -
>it inadvertantly makes some sensitive posters help
>bear my problems on their shoulders, when they were
>not asking to bear my problems.
I admitted to being tacky. Unfortunately, I've made the mistake of
trying to find support/friends with complete strangers as all my close
friends live either in another state or on the other side of the
state.
>
>There are/were a few MNBs here that act the way they act,
>and they are easy to co-exist with, imho. The thing is
>they usually don't blurt out their life problems to
>100 million people, they **especially** don't blurt out their
>life problems in order to explain their bitchiness. If they
>are bitchy, probably because they got a bone to pick
>and they will pick it! <g>
True, see above, again, I messed up.
>
>If a person is bitchy because they have a menstrual
>cramp that is an 11 on the Ricter scale, and they
>advertise that as the reason they are bitchy ("though
>I'm not the bitchy kind of person"); what good will it do?
>What purpose does it have? If pity is not the goal, what
>is? Obviously we can't send Midol through the internet;
>into one modem and out the other.
Would be nice though, <g>
>
>Last retorical thought of this post, considering that
>the posters here aren't prime examples of Pollyanna,
>(except for Barbara Booth who IS a doll)
>does this group of strangers in any way AT ALL
>have more benefits of being around it than a support
>group for cerebral palsy, Multiple Sclerosis,
>leukodystrophy, proencephalic cysts and/or
>Aicardi Syndrome - where there are more people
>with a similar lifestyle?
Support groups never worked for me, I found them quite depressing and
only made me feel worse. That and I'm really, really stubborn.
§crat
own posts and some other bitch sessions, lol.
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:29:43 -0600, Estrella
<pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com>:
§crat
<sand...@cox.net>:
>"§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
>news:f4hpquom2g482rdnf...@4ax.com...
>>> > It's sick, really, that you don't have a more production and
>interesting life
>>
>> Try having a productive life when your current income is less then
>> your rent...
>>
>Well, Scrat, you could read a good book... in case you didn't know, taking
>books
>out of the public library is FREE <flash!>
I currently have 12 books out of the public library and probably close
to a 100 more on my book shelf. Problem is, books tend to make me
sleepy, so I read them before bed.
>You could take up walking... builds strong
>muscles and burns calories, and it's FREE!
I plan to take up walking to lose weight as soon as it stops raining
here.
>There's a zillion free things to occupy ones
>time, that would make you a better person, than hanging out on your computer
>ALL DAY LONG. I mean, I could understand if you doing something
>constructive on it,
>or even mindless surfing, but all you do is argue with strangers about the
>intimate lives
>of other strangers, spending hours looking up IP addresses, and harrassing
>them.
I do play PC games, look up ideas for Christmas gifts, talk to
friends... I no longer look up IP's or argue with strangers.
>
>I ask you sincerely, isn't that wierd behavior? Let me add you're not the
>only wierd one when
>it comes to that behavior, and as Ward Cleaver once said, "either a thing is
>either right or wrong,
>and if it's wrong, it doesn't matter HOW MANY PEOPLE do it, it's still
>wrong.
It was weird behavior to some, although I thought when I first came
here the Sarah/Linda thing was weird behavior...
Estrella
> "§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
> news:f4hpquom2g482rdnf...@4ax.com...
> >> > It's sick, really, that you don't have a more production and
> interesting life
> >
> > Try having a productive life when your current income is less then
> > your rent...
> >
> Well, Scrat, you could read a good book... in case you didn't know, taking
> books out of the public library is FREE <flash!> You could take up walking...
>
> builds strong muscles and burns calories, and it's FREE! There's a zillion
> free things to occupy ones time, that would make you a better person, than
> hanging out on your computer ALL DAY LONG. I mean, I could understand
> if you doing something constructive on it, or even mindless surfing, but
> all you do is argue with strangers about the intimate lives of other
> strangers,
> spending hours looking up IP addresses, and harrassing
> them.
Personally, if I was in that dire of straits, I would give up
the internet thing all together unless I was looking for
a better job, going to school online, or applying for grants
or finding a way to get back the $700 that I spent on buying
the computer. I would also give up my cable television,
if I had cable/satellite television.
There are some cheap hobbies that cost less than $10
and takes up a lot of time, even for the stuck at home
types. The only electricity needed is light to see the work.
Embroidery, crocheting, knitting. Knitting this 5 ft
square-looking thing can be theraputic, and in the end
a person accomplishes a task and has a higher self-esteem.
Heck, rearranging furniture in the home costs nothing.
However, all this is moot if a person has no self-esteem,
and believes he/she is bound to a life of bereft, misery,
heart-ache, and/or monotony. In the end, it's up to
the individual to mold their life in a better or worse
fashion; as much as I bemoan clichés, this one
sticks out:
You can lead a thirsty horse to water, but you can't
force him/her drink the water.
Nadine Sandauer
"§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
> It was weird behavior to some, although I thought when I first came
> here the Sarah/Linda thing was weird behavior...
> >
Ok, now that's one thing we can both agree on. The Sarah/Linda soap opera
IS, without a doubt, mighty weird too.
ns
Mind The Gap!
> trying to find support/friends with complete strangers as all my close
> friends live either in another state or on the other side of the
> state.
and you will continue to make the same mistake until you take a good hard
look at what is causing you to do so - and being honest with yourself is
never easy. i think we both know your behavior is about more than having a
few bad days.
> Support groups never worked for me, I found them quite depressing and
> only made me feel worse.
see above, facing the truth can be difficult.
>That and I'm really, really stubborn.
you are getting some sort of reward from this dysfunctional behavior, my
guess is the attention, and you aren't ready to let go of it - something for
you to think about.
mtg
§crat
<pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com>:
>Personally, if I was in that dire of straits, I would give up
>the internet thing all together unless I was looking for
>a better job, going to school online, or applying for grants
>or finding a way to get back the $700 that I spent on buying
>the computer. I would also give up my cable television,
>if I had cable/satellite television.
Hubby relies on the Internet, Cable TV to have some sort of life, he
needs that for enjoyment. He can not use his hands to do much,
therefore hobbies are out.
>
>There are some cheap hobbies that cost less than $10
>and takes up a lot of time, even for the stuck at home
>types. The only electricity needed is light to see the work.
>Embroidery, crocheting, knitting. Knitting this 5 ft
>square-looking thing can be theraputic, and in the end
>a person accomplishes a task and has a higher self-esteem.
>Heck, rearranging furniture in the home costs nothing.
I have done cross-stitch, but it makes me incredibly nervous. I have
a couch in my living room and a chair, there is no place to rearrange
furniture, or that much to rearrange, the way our Townhouse is laid
out, pretty much everyone had to put their couch in the same spot.
They don't leave ya with a lot of options.
>
>However, all this is moot if a person has no self-esteem,
>and believes he/she is bound to a life of bereft, misery,
>heart-ache, and/or monotony. In the end, it's up to
>the individual to mold their life in a better or worse
>fashion; as much as I bemoan clichés, this one
>sticks out:
I have plenty of self esteem, not as much as when I was skinny, but...
I do not believe my life will always be miserable, I had a few good
days here and there, lol. I just got whacked with the shitty stick
for awhile. I did take up riding horses, until I couldn't afford the
lessons, but I hope to go back very soon. Where I live, there is
hardly anything to do and if you can name some hobbies under $10,
please do! I'd be willing to give them a try. Winter time is a hard
to time to do anything, in the summer I go swimming every day, this
time of year is just, blah.
>
>You can lead a thirsty horse to water, but you can't
>force him/her drink the water.'
True, and I am very stubborn.
>
>Estrella
>http://members.tripod.com/~s3tar/monkees/faq.html
§crat
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:38:58 GMT, "Nadine Sandauer"
<sand...@cox.net>:
§crat
people give me attention or not, not the kind your talking about. I'm
really not sure what you're getting at here. I believe I stopped
making the "mistake".
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:34:42 GMT, "Mind The Gap!"
<mindt...@attbi.com>:
Jennifer
take a good look at yourself before you pass judgement on other's
honey!
"Nadine Sandauer" <sand...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<DL%q9.49652$XF.1...@news1.central.cox.net>...
Nadine Sandauer
"Jennifer" <shoop...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ab5e8be8.02101...@posting.google.com...
> Nadine I hate to break this to you,but you do the same thing! So go
> take a good look at yourself before you pass judgement on other's
> honey!
I would reply to you, but I it's hard to logically talk to rocks. End of
discussion.
ns
allie
think anybody should be condemned for that. I've done it and met some
damn nice people along the way. JMHO. I've also gotten alot off of
my chest. Unfortunately, I need it back!
Estrella <pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com> wrote in message news:<3DAD94B4...@mailDELETEcity.com>...
^t0^
<AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote:
>Huh? Why is everybody dysfunctional to you? I don't care if these
>people give me attention or not, not the kind your talking about.
Right. You don't want attention. That's why you're still sitting here,
on a music newsgroup, going on about intimate details of your personal
life to a few thousand strangers. That wasn't an apology. That was
just another ploy for attention and sympathy.
-to-
§crat
On 16 Oct 2002 15:25:41 -0700, alli...@yahoo.com (allie):
§crat
why does everyone read more into things on this group. I do not need
"that kind of attention" from complete strangers. I see what trying
to be nice and apologizing does on this board. Y'all want everyone to
apologize, which I did sincerely, and then you shoot them down for
that. I'm friggin' confused.
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:57:44 GMT, ^t0^
<monkeeDELf...@YahDELoo.DELcom>:
Estrella
> Sometimes it's easy to spill your guts to complete strangers. I don't
> think anybody should be condemned for that. I've done it and met some
> damn nice people along the way. JMHO. I've also gotten alot off of
> my chest. Unfortunately, I need it back!
I'm not condemning the act of venting all together. I am sure
a good number here or on TOL have made a slight mention
about what's going on in their personal life. And I'm not
condemning the act of being bitchy either.
What goes against the grain is 1) regularly venting on a public,
active newsgroup without expecting a response, and 2) making
the "it ain't (usually like) me" excuse/"apology" because of
actions or personal events that the person doesn't have
enough control over.
If a person has a terrible life, one shouldn't hide behind
anger or resentment. Or then explain what causes the
build up three months later. Maybe there are still people
willing to "have a heart", but with Columbine, the recent
escapades of the expert sniper in the East Coast, Nicole
Simpson, Bill Clinton and "his escapades", the events of 9/11,
et al., I've turned a blind eye towards "excuses" for deliberate
acts, especially made by people who aren't friends or family
of mine.
A person did what they did. If he/she plans to reform,
fine. If she/he continues to act in an "unusual" way,
apologies or explanations aren't usually worth
the trouble to lisen to. Just don't **continously**
bring me into thy hell (and wrath), when I don't know thee.
Just my $.03
And Allie, you can't have back the stuff from your
chest. It's all mine! *insert maniacal laugher*
I'm planning to sell it on eBay. <eg>
§crat
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:17:20 -0600, Estrella
<pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com>:
Bbooth202
I know how you feel living with a family member who has a disability and can't
do much and they depend on you for everything. I know some people that are like
that. When I'm bored I do crossword puzzles. I love doing the Fill-in puzzles.
I live with my mom who is in her 70's, but she dosen't look her age and she has
fibromalga and she is doing fine and she can drive. Right now our car has been
in the shop for 3 weeks now. We have a 1988 Chevy Nova that we got used back in
Chicago and recently we had got a used engine from Toyota in Japan and it was
defective and now our mechanic is rebuilding the engine and he is taking a
while to do it, so now my mom has to depend on our friends to drive her to
various places.
Barbara Boooth
Shoessuedeblues2
Shoessuedeblues2
Shoessuedeblues2
there was no reason for and I know where you got it. No one! forced you to do
that, you knew what you were doing. And posting that information on Therra
which was also wrong and again deliberately.
>See, it wasn't deliberate... but never mind.
I have acknowledged on here responsibility for my actions as for being part of
my problems here. And made sincere apologies to certain people when I screwed
up and overstepped. But all I have seen is "oh poor me, my life sucks" that is
not an excuse for the behaviour I witnessed and undoubtly you got pushed into
it by a few troublemakers<whom shall remain nameless! and need to get a grip>
Thinking you were helping them when in effect you only made yourself look bad.
Linda
Shoessuedeblues2
post private information such as IP addresses, personal addresses and other
private information. Not once, in the 4 or so years that I have I been reading
this group has Nadine done that. So don't compare the two as there is no
comparison. Sarah and Scrat on the other had published privated information
willfully and intentionally!
§crat
to me to do everything, before it was 50/50, it was only in the past 2
months that he has been unable to no longer drive, so it kind of just
happened. Your very sweet, but I think you know that. :o)
On 17 Oct 2002 10:43:03 GMT, bboo...@aol.com (Bbooth202):
§crat
(Shoessuedeblues2):
>I would buy it wasn't deliberate, if you hadn't intenionally posted my address,
>there was no reason for and I know where you got it. No one! forced you to do
>that, you knew what you were doing. And posting that information on Therra
>which was also wrong and again deliberately.
Linda, I'm sorry I posted your street name/city. That was wrong, and
yes I was told where you were living and found the rest of the info
on-line, your building is listed. The info I posted on Therra was
public info, it was on a art page web gallery that her husband belongs
to. Believe it or not, she is married or was. Anyway, it doesn't
matter. I will admit, posting your address was deliberate to a point,
you had really pissed me off, I'd like to make amends with everyone
now. You used to talk to me Linda, you know I'm not a bad person.
>
>I have acknowledged on here responsibility for my actions as for being part of
>my problems here. And made sincere apologies to certain people when I screwed
>up and overstepped. But all I have seen is "oh poor me, my life sucks" that is
>not an excuse for the behaviour I witnessed and undoubtly you got pushed into
>it by a few troublemakers<whom shall remain nameless! and need to get a grip>
>Thinking you were helping them when in effect you only made yourself look bad.
Okay, okay, so I made myself look bad when I tried to "help", I know
that now. I admit it. Yeah, my life does kind of suck. But my
apology was sincere and when people started pissing me off, I wanted
to get back at them, that is the wrong attitude and I admit it.
§crat
(Shoessuedeblues2):
>Honey, Nadine has NEVER ! EVER ! done what your buddy Scrat has done. That is
>post private information such as IP addresses, personal addresses and other
>private information. Not once, in the 4 or so years that I have I been reading
>this group has Nadine done that. So don't compare the two as there is no
>comparison. Sarah and Scrat on the other had published privated information
>willfully and intentionally!
Linda, address that are listed on the web, including IP's are not
private. An IP is in every header on everything you send. A home
address can many times be found on the internet somewhere. In your
case, it was unlisted, I gave only the street name/city, that could be
a lot of places, I'm sorry.
As for everyone being dysfunctional in MTG's eyes, I have yet to met
one "functional" person, so to speak, on here, LOL.
I don't know Nadine that well, she made some good points, and yes, she
pissed me off too with some of them, because they weren't true, but I
merely stated the truth and did not get angry with her, I think that
shows "growth", :o)
^t0^
<AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote:
>Think what you what you want to , but it was an apology nothing more,
>why does everyone read more into things on this group. I do not need
>"that kind of attention" from complete strangers. I see what trying
>to be nice and apologizing does on this board. Y'all want everyone to
>apologize, which I did sincerely, and then you shoot them down for
>that. I'm friggin' confused.
"Y'all?" Obviously you are missing my input on that little poll. I am
not interested in "apologies" from you. The only meaningful action you
could have taken was to leave. A true apology is one offered without
justification or excuses, followed by appropriate action. Just "I'm
sorry to those I hurt. Please convey my apologies to those who left
the newsgroup because of my actions." Exit Scrat. The End.
Instead, you've used your "apology" as a platform for more whining
about your personal life. You want to prove your sincerity? Pack it,
and move it. O-U-T out. There are places online where it would be
entirely appropriate for you to discuss your caregiver blues, your
boobs, your menstrual problems, your social problems, your rape
trauma, your finanacial woes, etc. This isn't one of them. Amm is
about a '60s sitcom and pop band. Not your crappy life.
-to-
§crat
Others feel free to talk about their problems. Why can you remember
everything I ever posted about "myself"? Y'all is my form of
expression, it's called a southern accent. Also, I wasn't whining, as
I said before, I thought I had friends on here, I was wrong, I did
make a few though. If you don't like AMM so much, why are you still
here? I tried to be nice, apologize in my own way, but nothing is
good enough for you, not that I give a damn if it is or not. I felt
better by apologizing and a few so far have accepted it. I never
meant to hurt anyone with the IP thing. Why are you so negative all
the time, you talk about being a mean, spiteful, bitch and then you
post something like this?
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:36:07 GMT, ^t0^
<monkeeDELf...@YahDELoo.DELcom>:
Samantha
> not interested in "apologies" from you. The only meaningful action you
> could have taken was to leave. A true apology is one offered without
> justification or excuses, followed by appropriate action. Just "I'm
> sorry to those I hurt. Please convey my apologies to those who left
> the newsgroup because of my actions." Exit Scrat. The End.
I've been keeping my mouth shut about this but all you BITCHES out there who
are telling Scrat to leave should follow your OWN advice. If you don't like
it here, go make your own ng where you can kick out people you don't like.
I'm sure there would be about 4 people on there.
> Instead, you've used your "apology" as a platform for more whining
> about your personal life. You want to prove your sincerity? Pack it,
> and move it. O-U-T out. There are places online where it would be
> entirely appropriate for you to discuss your caregiver blues, your
> boobs, your menstrual problems, your social problems, your rape
> trauma, your finanacial woes, etc. This isn't one of them. Amm is
> about a '60s sitcom and pop band. Not your crappy life.
and just when was the last time anyone talked about the Monkees or anything
to do with the 60's?
Since this is an un-moderated newsgroup, this means people are free to talk
about ANYTHING they want. Therra can talk about her herpes scars and about
her personal life (or lack of one) and how she's not married (but really is)
or we all can talk about what the Monkees SHOULD be doing (making music,
doing tours...)
Maybe AMM should stand for Alt.Monkee.Morons since everyone on here happens
to be one!
Now shut up with your bitching and get on with your life.
--
Samantha
AMM: the reason abortion should be legal
Samantha
"Shoessuedeblues2" <shoessue...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021017092549...@mb-dd.aol.com...
> Honey, Nadine has NEVER ! EVER ! done what your buddy Scrat has done. That
is
> post private information such as IP addresses, personal addresses and
other
> private information. Not once, in the 4 or so years that I have I been
reading
> this group has Nadine done that. So don't compare the two as there is no
> comparison. Sarah and Scrat on the other had published privated
information
> willfully and intentionally!
>
Linda, I have your address and I can post it anywhere I want. If it's in a
phonebook on or off the net it's public record. Just like how I found
Therra's address.
Jennifer
nails,so stop it with silly pot shot's and get a life!
"Nadine Sandauer" <sand...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<6nkr9.63691$XF....@news1.central.cox.net>...
RegionalGirl
online...anyone who knows where to look can find it.
"§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
news:t3ktqus0vqlg28aho...@4ax.com...
Mind The Gap!
"§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
>
> Linda, address that are listed on the web, including IP's are not
> private. An IP is in every header on everything you send. A home
> address can many times be found on the internet somewhere. In your
> case, it was unlisted, I gave only the street name/city, that could be
> a lot of places, I'm sorry.
i did it BUT... i am suspect of any apology that is followed by an excuse.
sounds to me like you are trying to justify your actions. every time i read
one of your 'apologies' i get the feeling the only thing you are sorry for
is how it affected you. i.e. 'everyone thinks i am a bitch, nobody likes me'
etc. i don't see you being very remorseful about how it may have affected
the other person. an apology is for the person who has been wronged, yet
somehow you manage to make it about you.
>
> As for everyone being dysfunctional in MTG's eyes, I have yet to met
> one "functional" person, so to speak, on here, LOL.
first of all, i did not say YOU were dysfunctional, i said your BEHAVIOR
was. lashing out at others because you have a bad day is a dysfunctional
coping behavior. doing hurtful things to others because you want to fit in
with certain people is dysfunctional. divulging extremely personal
information about yourself in a public forum is dysfunctional. posting
others addresses is dysfunctional. yes i know that is public information
blah blah blah, but cultural norms regarding privacy dictate that it is
unethical to say the least.
and finally, i am not going any further with this psychological profile of
you because that would be DYSFUNCTIONAL!
mtg
§crat
I'm sorry for what I did, please forgive me, it's unexcusable. Short
and sweet and to the point.
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:57:12 GMT, "Mind The Gap!"
<mindt...@attbi.com>:
ns
> nails,so stop it with silly pot shot's and get a life!
Jennifer - This is the END OF THIS DISCUSSION with me. Got it??
ns
Estrella
> Think what you what you want to , but it was an apology nothing more,
> why does everyone read more into things on this group. I do not need
> "that kind of attention" from complete strangers. I see what trying
> to be nice and apologizing does on this board. Y'all want everyone to
> apologize, which I did sincerely, and then you shoot them down for
> that. I'm friggin' confused.
That's part of your problem. You are doing this all inclusive
"y'all" thing. You're imagining too many things; you're the
one reading more into things. How many people asked you
to apologize? I certainly didn't want an apology.
Second, WHY are you confused? You don't care what we
think and you don't want our "attention". So why are you
putting so much weight unto what "we think", through 1)
making verbose apologies and 2) responding on the
defensive instead of just talking to us? I don't want
you to respond to those questions, but instead mull
over them.
And I'm sorry for being bitchy. I have this vaginal yeast
infection that looks like bad cheese, and the weather is
freaking cold. I certainly am bummed about Val Kilmer
not being in any more motion pictures. I tried renting
all his movies, but it's just not the same as seeing him
in a new movie. This ingrown toenail is bothering
me to, and there is nothing good to buy on eBay..
I'm usually very sweet and nice, but this
crap on a.m.m. was the last straw for me.
A ONE VOICE in 100.
Estrella
> Support groups never worked for me, I found them quite depressing and
> only made me feel worse. That and I'm really, really stubborn.
Okaaayy. I'll make my question unretorical. What kind
of benefits exist for spilling your guts HERE, instead
of some place that has more people who probably are
in a similar position to you? Who have probably
have better suggestions to cope with your
financial/social/emotional/personal situation?
Am I to understand that through your viewpoint, being
bitchy and nosy is a better trade-off than being depressed?
By the looks of things, this place is obviously not
"depressing" you (though I'm willing to bet otherwise),
but you admitted that this place brings out a darker part
of you that you yourself hate to see. There's a lot of
contradictions and overcompensations happening.
What I'm mainly curious about is how this place full
of strangers who have a very meager understanding
of your life tends to be more addictive for you than
a forum where people have more stuff in common
with you. That there is the fattest contradiction,
which also causes your "apologies" to look, smell,
and feel false.
allie
Estrella <pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com> wrote in message news:
>
§crat
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:22:24 -0600, Estrella
<pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com>:
allie
"Samantha" <FUC...@FUCKEDUP.COM> wrote in message news:<M2Br9.8358$%h2....@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
Samantha
"allie" <alli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:25f7c07.02101...@posting.google.com...
> Why do you need these addresses? Mail bombs? Just curious.
There's an idea..
mj
>"Y'all?" Obviously you are missing my input on that little poll. I am
>not interested in "apologies" from you. The only meaningful action you
>could have taken was to leave. A true apology is one offered without
>justification or excuses, followed by appropriate action. Just "I'm
>sorry to those I hurt. Please convey my apologies to those who left
>the newsgroup because of my actions." Exit Scrat. The End.
>
>Instead, you've used your "apology" as a platform for more whining
>about your personal life. You want to prove your sincerity? Pack it,
>and move it. O-U-T out. There are places online where it would be
>entirely appropriate for you to discuss your caregiver blues, your
>boobs, your menstrual problems, your social problems, your rape
>trauma, your finanacial woes, etc. This isn't one of them. Amm is
>about a '60s sitcom and pop band. Not your crappy life.
>
>-to-
Another component of apologizing or "making amends" as we call it in
12-step is to make an apology *and not expect a specific reaction*.
If Scrat was really sincere in her apology, she would not be pissed at
some folks negative reactions to it, she would accept the reaction and
*move on*.
mj
Jan
"mj" <mjgr...@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aakuqucqm9jenbot4...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:36:07 GMT, ^t0^
> 12-step is to make an apology *and not expect a specific reaction*.
> If Scrat was really sincere in her apology, she would not be pissed at
> some folks negative reactions to it, she would accept the reaction and
> *move on*.
>
mightily to leave the fighting to somebody else for a change....as I get
enough bad vibes from dealing with Linda. But I'm the kind that can't keep
shut when I see something that isn't right...and this isn't.
Several of you have made an issue of Patricia's personal problems. Yet, and
this is not a put down to her, you have ALWAYS accepted Barbara Booth's
continual comments about knee surgeries, caregiving, sprained ankles,
indigestion, and everything else under the sun. Yes, Barbara is always nice
to everyone. But you don't say one word about what she says.
Unfortunately, and I've said this before to deaf ears, I am the one that
probably egged Patricia on as far as tracing IP's. We were in the middle of
a mystery at that time, and I didn't know how. Because of her help, I know
how now...and I'm rather thankful to her for that. Maybe most of you
weren't interested in what she posted. I was, though. Maybe some of it
wasn't correct. Alot of it was. But if that's all you have to attack her
with, then you might as well just transfer it to me....cause I was the one
that encouraged it. And it was for reasons that have not been made known
to the group as a whole. Sorry about that.
When I saw her apology, I shot her an email to tell her that she didn't OWE
anybody an apology, and to stop it immediately. I knew how you all would
act towards her. Her need for friendship is misguided as far as coming to
this newsgroup, THAT I will agree with. And I find it rather sad, actually.
I, for one, find her friendly and helpful, and can think of quite a few
people I'd rather see leave.
Of course, I'm not one of the oldies, so maybe I don't have a say. To that,
I'll repeat what Samantha said. This is a public newsgroup...not a
moderated "list". She has as much right to be here and post about her
personal problems as Barbara Booth.
Yes, it would be nice to talk about the Monkees...but there's nothing going
on right now to talk about. If I feel like complaining about my damned hot
flashes, I probably will. And my cat still does not fart.
Jan
Jan
> I would buy it wasn't deliberate, if you hadn't intenionally posted my
address,
> there was no reason for and I know where you got it. No one! forced you to
do
> that, you knew what you were doing. And posting that information on Therra
> which was also wrong and again deliberately.
>
towards YOU at all. You bring on everything that anybody does or says to
you yourself. You've done nothing but attack people for 10,000 posts here.
Your stupidity in going on endlessly with Sarah for months and months is in
itself enough reason to post ANYTHING that will SHUT YOU UP. Anything. You
take every bait she tosses out to you, and you LOVE the conflict.
>
> I have acknowledged on here responsibility for my actions as for being
part of
> my problems here. And made sincere apologies to certain people when I
screwed
> up and overstepped.
Oh, yes....I've seen your bullshit apologies and sucking up to the ones that
you consider "important" on here for 3 years now. You DO excell in sucking
up. If you would STOP doing what you apologize for, and SHUT UP
occasionally, it would count for alot more. But you whine, and then within
24 hours, you're right back at it.
But all I have seen is "oh poor me, my life sucks" that is
> not an excuse for the behaviour I witnessed and undoubtly you got pushed
into
> it by a few troublemakers<whom shall remain nameless! and need to get a
grip>
Let's see here....Scrat started out in the beginning by taking up for YOU,
misguided as that was. I even thought she was one of your multiple
personalities. As long as THAT was happening, you were happy as a pig in
**hit, and all was well. When she figured out what a loser YOU were, then
suddenly she was no longer smart, huh?
> Thinking you were helping them when in effect you only made yourself look
bad.
She DID help "them", and took the boot for it. For that, I'm sorry.
Jan
>
Jan
> Honey, Nadine has NEVER ! EVER ! done what your buddy Scrat has done. That
is
> post private information such as IP addresses, personal addresses and
other
> private information. Not once, in the 4 or so years that I have I been
reading
> this group has Nadine done that. So don't compare the two as there is no
> comparison. Sarah and Scrat on the other had published privated
information
> willfully and intentionally!
>
about everybody. What you did to Donna alone is 25 times worse than
anything Scrat posted. Who the hell do you think CARES where you live, or
your phone number or anything else. It's easy enough to find out, but
nobody that I know would want to.
If you didn't have so many enemies you wouldn't worry about who knows where
you live. There must be 250 people who know all of my demographics.
Anybody could post anything of mine on here, and I could care less. That's
because I haven't injured 25 or 30 people to the point that they would do
anything spiteful (like calling my job..the way you did to Donna) to me.
Good god, Linda...that is TERRIBLE. That is the lowest thing I've ever
heard of anybody doing. You have no right to ever, ever complain about
anybody doing anything to you.
Jan
Jan
"§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
>> Linda, address that are listed on the web, including IP's are not
> private. An IP is in every header on everything you send. A home
> address can many times be found on the internet somewhere. In your
> case, it was unlisted, I gave only the street name/city, that could be
> a lot of places, I'm sorry.
Stop apologizing to her, Patricia. She doesn't deserve one tiny particle of
it.
Jan
§crat
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:23:49 -0000, "Jan" <luvdav...@sccoast.net>:
§crat
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:34:35 -0000, "Jan" <luvdav...@sccoast.net>:
Jan
"Mind The Gap!" <mindt...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:bKDr9.76278$uF6.2...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
>
>
> first of all, i did not say YOU were dysfunctional, i said your BEHAVIOR
> was. lashing out at others because you have a bad day is a dysfunctional
> coping behavior. doing hurtful things to others because you want to fit
in
> with certain people is dysfunctional. divulging extremely personal
> information about yourself in a public forum is dysfunctional. posting
> others addresses is dysfunctional. yes i know that is public information
> blah blah blah, but cultural norms regarding privacy dictate that it is
> unethical to say the least.
> and finally, i am not going any further with this psychological profile of
> you because that would be DYSFUNCTIONAL!
>
Oh, and *you* don't find it dysfunctional to call yourself something like
"already had it", and have marathon chat sessions with other Davy fans about
his sexual prowess, or lack thereof....and his attitudes about oral sex, and
other things like that?
Telling details about how, when, and where you did it? (or is that "had
it"?)
Is THAT not craving attention? Is that not just a little bit weird? I'm
sorry...but I don't think you have a leg to stand on, MTG. And it's no
wonder you haven't divulged your identity to anybody. I think this might be
a definate case of "physician, heal thyself"....if indeed you are some type
of psychologist or whatever it is you claim to be.
Jan
Jan
"§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
> Thank you Jan.
You are very welcome. I think you know that.
Jan
>
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:23:49 -0000, "Jan" <luvdav...@sccoast.net>:
>
> >
mj
>
>"mj" <mjgr...@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:aakuqucqm9jenbot4...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:36:07 GMT, ^t0^
>> Another component of apologizing or "making amends" as we call it in
>> 12-step is to make an apology *and not expect a specific reaction*.
>> If Scrat was really sincere in her apology, she would not be pissed at
>> some folks negative reactions to it, she would accept the reaction and
>> *move on*.
>>
>Several of you have made an issue of Patricia's personal problems. Yet, and
>this is not a put down to her, you have ALWAYS accepted Barbara Booth's
>continual comments about knee surgeries, caregiving, sprained ankles,
>indigestion, and everything else under the sun. Yes, Barbara is always nice
>to everyone. But you don't say one word about what she says.
That's right, we don't say a word because when Barbara tells us about
her life she is simply sharing her world with us. When Scrat does the
same she is attempting to exact a specific reaction from us (notice
how pissed she got when her apology wasn't accepted by some). Besides
being manipulative, Scrat totally lacks self-awareness, is willfully
dense and is in complete denial. She whines about her life, but seems
to be completely unwilling to take the steps necessary to change. She
shouldn't be suprised that folks don't feel sorry for her.
>When I saw her apology, I shot her an email to tell her that she didn't OWE
>anybody an apology, and to stop it immediately. I knew how you all would
>act towards her. Her need for friendship is misguided as far as coming to
>this newsgroup, THAT I will agree with. And I find it rather sad, actually.
> I, for one, find her friendly and helpful, and can think of quite a few
>people I'd rather see leave.
Here's the thing. She has been nice to *you*, so *you* think she's
nice. Wow, talk about your tunnel vision. You might want to go back
and read some of her emails directed at other people....she's really
not that nice. She owed the group an apology and I'll say it
again--if she was sincere she would have apologized to the group
*without expectation* . If she decided to stick around, a period of
time where she behaved like a decent human being would have proven to
the group that she was really contrite. And yes, actions do speak
louder than words. An apology only means something when it's followed
up with changed behavior.
mj
Jan
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:23:49 -0000, "Jan" <luvdav...@sccoast.net>
> wrote:
> That's right, we don't say a word because when Barbara tells us about
> her life she is simply sharing her world with us. When Scrat does the
> same she is attempting to exact a specific reaction from us (notice
> how pissed she got when her apology wasn't accepted by some). Besides
> being manipulative, Scrat totally lacks self-awareness, is willfully
> dense and is in complete denial. She whines about her life, but seems
> to be completely unwilling to take the steps necessary to change. She
> shouldn't be suprised that folks don't feel sorry for her.
This is not the right place to "whine" about one's problems...you are right
there. Unless, of course, you are somebody that is so naive and innocent
that everyone smiles with acceptance of the childish things you say.
Patricia was first friendly, then combatitive, then apologetic. Probably
the wrong order.
> Here's the thing. She has been nice to *you*, so *you* think she's
> nice. Wow, talk about your tunnel vision. You might want to go back
> and read some of her emails directed at other people....she's really
> not that nice.
Who has she said anything bad to besides Linda and Therra? If there was
anybody else, she was defending herself against attacks against her. I've
read every post on this board for months now. I haven't seen her say
anything out of the way to anybody unless she was responding to something
like that. Did you take that much offense when she posted that one long
post with everyone's IP on it? If so, then tell her. Maybe she can
apologize for that and get this all over with. Find another post where she
"attacked" someone without provocation, and I'll eat my words.
She owed the group an apology and I'll say it
> again--if she was sincere she would have apologized to the group
> *without expectation* .
Why does she owe this group an apology? She attacked Therra, and you all
went off on her for it.
Then you told her to leave, and she didn't. That's all I've seen. What
does that have to do with "the group"? All I've seen is that everyone left
out of protest at Therra being questioned.
> An apology only means something when it's followed up with changed
behavior.
And Linda has changed her behavior? You all seem to have forgiven her...and
she's done a helluva lot worse.
Jan
>
Estrella
> Several of you have made an issue of Patricia's personal problems. Yet, and
> this is not a put down to her, you have ALWAYS accepted Barbara Booth's
> continual comments about knee surgeries, caregiving, sprained ankles,
> indigestion, and everything else under the sun. Yes, Barbara is always nice
> to everyone. But you don't say one word about what she says.
Excuse me, apples and oranges. Barbara RARELY has a fit,
and bitches and moans and cries victim of this newsgroup,
and RARELY uses her personal problems as an excuse
for her bitching and moaning. Barbara tells her personal
problems as is, period. As I said apples AND oranges.
Excuse me for being so bitchy. I'm usually not like that.
My pet Fraggle [tm] just died, and there is a line on
Channel 6, and the cable repairman won't come by until
the next striped moon. I'm really a nice person.
ns
news:aoo1tj$4j2k$1...@news3.infoave.net...
> And Linda has changed her behavior? You all seem to have forgiven
her...and
> she's done a helluva lot worse.
Jan, there is no "you all" here. We don't share a "common thought". Don't
assume "we all" share
one main brain. God forbid I get lumped into sharing some of the same brain
cells as a few on this
newsgroup. Shudder the thought.
ns
§crat
those people who talk to anyone, about anything, like my favorite
beverage to the check out lady at the grocery store, I'm just like
that...
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:57:12 GMT, "Mind The Gap!"
<mindt...@attbi.com>:
>
>you because that would be DYSFUNCTIONAL.
>
>mtg
>
>
>
>
>
§crat
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:44:02 -0000, "Jan" <luvdav...@sccoast.net>:
Jan
"Estrella" <pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com> wrote in message
> Jan wrote:
> Excuse me, apples and oranges. Barbara RARELY has a fit,
> and bitches and moans and cries victim of this newsgroup,
> and RARELY uses her personal problems as an excuse
> for her bitching and moaning. Barbara tells her personal
> problems as is, period. As I said apples AND oranges.
Barbara is different only that she never attacks anybody, ever. Then again,
nobody has ever attacked her, either.
While we're in this...what about the person who was behind the 2 or 3 alter
personalities that attacked Jan B so badly...and posted all that CRAP about
her deceased husband and assorted lies thereof.....Nobody spoke up for her.
Nobody except me and ......hmmm....I believe it was Patricia....who again,
at MY indignant request, set about to find out who was responsible.
That whole episode got washed right under the rug.
And there's alot of other stuff that did, too.
Jan
>
> Excuse me for being so bitchy. I'm usually not like that.
> My pet Fraggle [tm] just died, and there is a line on
> Channel 6, and the cable repairman won't come by until
> the next striped moon. I'm really a nice person.
>
Excuse *me* for going against popular opinion and taking up for an underdog
who is being unjustly crucified. My client is not innocent of all charges,
your honor....but petty theft does not call for the gas chamber, either.
Jan
Jan
"§crat" <AcornoS...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message
> Divulging personal info on here seems to be the norm. I'm one of
> those people who talk to anyone, about anything, like my favorite
> beverage to the check out lady at the grocery store, I'm just like
> that...
So am I, Patricia. My life, odd though it may be, has always been an open
book. I don't have secrets, or hide things. I say what I feel when I feel
it. If I've done things I'm ashamed of...I'm likely to tell anybody...and
tell them I'm ashamed of it, too.
If you don't lie about anything, you never worry about having to remember
who you lied to. I like being the way I am, personally. And I've got a
hell of a lot of friends, too.
Jan
§crat
>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:23:49 -0000, "Jan" <luvdav...@sccoast.net>
>
>That's right, we don't say a word because when Barbara tells us about
>her life she is simply sharing her world with us. When Scrat does the
>same she is attempting to exact a specific reaction from us (notice
>how pissed she got when her apology wasn't accepted by some).
I was never trying for any reactions, I was looking for
friendship/advice, not pity, not oh you poor thing... I also didn't
get pissed at any posts per se, I just thought people could learn to
accept apologies gracefully.
>Besides being manipulative, Scrat totally lacks self-awareness, is willfully
>dense and is in complete denial. She whines about her life, but seems
>to be completely unwilling to take the steps necessary to change. She
>shouldn't be suprised that folks don't feel sorry for her.
The only person I manipulate is... wait I don't do that at all. I am
very self aware, I know what I want and I get; Very high IQ, not dense
at all; Been years since I was in denial, about 8 at least. I don't
"whine", that's just how you see it. I have taken steps to change it,
I just didn't inform the group. I was looking for friendship/advice.
I not too fond of "shrinks", I was sent to one after another when I
was 12/14 and they never have done a damn thing. I even tried one
last summer, didn't do crap... was more concerned about whether or not
I had a sex life. I don't want anyone feeling sorry for me!
>
>
>Here's the thing. She has been nice to *you*, so *you* think she's
>nice. Wow, talk about your tunnel vision. You might want to go back
>and read some of her emails directed at other people....she's really
>not that nice. She owed the group an apology and I'll say it
>again--if she was sincere she would have apologized to the group
>*without expectation* . If she decided to stick around, a period of
>time where she behaved like a decent human being would have proven to
>the group that she was really contrite. And yes, actions do speak
>louder than words. An apology only means something when it's followed
>up with changed behavior.
When I first came here I was "me", I was nice to everyone, then shit
went down. People piss on me, I piss back, but things got out of
hand. What expectations? I am still acting like a decent human
being...*biting tongue*. And I have changed my behavior...
§crat
others...
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:10:39 -0000, "Jan" <luvdav...@sccoast.net>:
==Daye==
> A true apology is one offered without
>justification or excuses, followed by appropriate action. Just "I'm
>sorry to those I hurt. Please convey my apologies to those who left
>the newsgroup because of my actions." Exit Scrat. The End.
I know that the few times that I have had to apologize for my behaviour,
I was always short and to the point. It was always along the lines of
"I realized that I was acting bitchy yesterday. I would like to
apologize to anyone that I may have hurt or offended." Usually my
apologies were accepted and life went on.
==Daye==
E-mail: brendana AT labyrinth DOT net DOT au
Bbooth202
home I will I will bitch at my mom, because I live with her and she is the only
one that I live with to spill my guts out with. She sometimes dosen't like it,
but other times she helps me solve my personal problems. If I see anything on
here that disturbs me I maybe will bitch and spill my guts out once and that
will be it.
Barbara Booth
Bbooth202
will get angry and mad, but won't have any temper tanturms on here.
Barbara Booth
LLeisa
> wrote:
>
> >Several of you have made an issue of Patricia's personal problems. Yet,
and
> >this is not a put down to her, you have ALWAYS accepted Barbara Booth's
> >continual comments about knee surgeries, caregiving, sprained ankles,
> >indigestion, and everything else under the sun. Yes, Barbara is always
nice
> >to everyone. But you don't say one word about what she says.
>
Barbara doesn't use her limitations and injuries as a reason/excuse to be
bitchy or catty, or stalk people. On the contrary, Barbara is pleasant,
sunny, and upbeat IN SPITE of whatever else life has handed her. When
Barbara posts about whatever ails her, it's usually along the lines of "by
the way, I'll be off line for this this and this reason."
Leisa
Shoessuedeblues2
I have never seen Barbara be anything but nice to people.
JanB
> You know what, Linda? I honestly don't believe Scrat intended her apology
> towards YOU at all. You bring on everything that anybody does or says to
> you yourself. You've done nothing but attack people for 10,000 posts
here.
> Your stupidity in going on endlessly with Sarah for months and months is
in
> itself enough reason to post ANYTHING that will SHUT YOU UP. Anything.
You
> take every bait she tosses out to you, and you LOVE the conflict.
that
> you consider "important" on here for 3 years now. You DO excell in
sucking
> up. If you would STOP doing what you apologize for, and SHUT UP
> occasionally, it would count for alot more. But you whine, and then
within
> 24 hours, you're right back at it.
>
> misguided as that was. I even thought she was one of your multiple
> personalities. As long as THAT was happening, you were happy as a pig in
> **hit, and all was well. When she figured out what a loser YOU were, then
> suddenly she was no longer smart, huh?
>
> Jan
No one, NO ONE should have their personal information posted on a public
forum, unless they THEMSELVES post it. No matter how awful they act. It
doesn't MATTER if it's public knowledge. Posting personal info is as low as
anyone can go.
JanB
Jan
"JanB" <janb0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ur00p18...@corp.supernews.com...
> No one, NO ONE should have their personal information posted on a public
> forum, unless they THEMSELVES post it. No matter how awful they act. It
> doesn't MATTER if it's public knowledge. Posting personal info is as low
as
> anyone can go.
>
> JanB
I guess that's just a matter of opinion.
Jan
>
JanB
> While we're in this...what about the person who was behind the 2 or 3
alter
> personalities that attacked Jan B so badly...and posted all that CRAP
about
> her deceased husband and assorted lies thereof.....Nobody spoke up for
her.
> Nobody except me and ......hmmm....I believe it was Patricia....who again,
> at MY indignant request, set about to find out who was responsible.
>
> That whole episode got washed right under the rug.
> And there's alot of other stuff that did, too.
>
> Jan
Jan hon, nobody needs to stand up for me. (And I know you have, on many
occasions...) I'm a big girl, and I can take care of myself. I never
mentioned my husband, because unlike Scrat the Brat, I didn't want anyone
feeling sorry for me. And he has nothing to do with this ng. No one on this
ng can hurt me, unless they print this page out, roll it up, and poke me in
the eye with it.
Barbara, on the other hand, only states facts. She doesn't feel sorry for
herself, and she doesn't expect us to feel sorry for her. Leave her out of
it. She doesn't deserve your disrespect.
JanB
Jan
>
> Jan hon, nobody needs to stand up for me. (And I know you have, on many
> occasions...) I'm a big girl, and I can take care of myself. I never
> mentioned my husband, because unlike Scrat the Brat, I didn't want anyone
> feeling sorry for me. And he has nothing to do with this ng. No one on
this
> ng can hurt me, unless they print this page out, roll it up, and poke me
in
> the eye with it.
>
> Barbara, on the other hand, only states facts. She doesn't feel sorry for
> herself, and she doesn't expect us to feel sorry for her. Leave her out of
> it. She doesn't deserve your disrespect.
>
> JanB
>
No disrespect intended towards Barbara. I am merely pointing out that she
is allowed and even encouraged to do so, and Scrat "the brat" (that's kinda
cute, actually) is being raked over the coals for doing exactly the same
thing.
I'm aware that you can take up for yourself. I suspect Scrat can to. I
call em as I see em, and that's the way I see both of these incidents. Too
bad that you seem to have forgotten all that went down back then too. You
may live to regret it someday.
Jan
JanB
> No disrespect intended towards Barbara. I am merely pointing out that she
> is allowed and even encouraged to do so, and Scrat "the brat" (that's
kinda
> cute, actually) is being raked over the coals for doing exactly the same
> thing.
>
> I'm aware that you can take up for yourself. I suspect Scrat can to. I
> call em as I see em, and that's the way I see both of these incidents.
Too
> bad that you seem to have forgotten all that went down back then too. You
> may live to regret it someday.
>
> Jan
"Back then" when? I told you all along, that Scrat had posted IPs that were
WRONG, and that I probably wouldn't believe anything she had to say, since
she had already lost all her credibility with me...?
JanB
Jan
>> Too
> > bad that you seem to have forgotten all that went down back then too.
You
> > may live to regret it someday.
> >
> > Jan
>
> "Back then" when? I told you all along, that Scrat had posted IPs that
were
> WRONG, and that I probably wouldn't believe anything she had to say, since
> she had already lost all her credibility with me...?
>
> JanB
>
agree to disagree on this one.
We disagree on most everything anyway.
Jan
Estrella
> While we're in this...what about the person who was behind the 2 or 3 alter
> personalities that attacked Jan B so badly...and posted all that CRAP about
> her deceased husband and assorted lies thereof.....Nobody spoke up for her.
> Nobody except me and ......hmmm....I believe it was Patricia....who again,
> at MY indignant request, set about to find out who was responsible.
Is there a point to all this? As far as I've seen, JanB was doing
fine on her own; and I didn't really care about the personal crap
people piled up about her. Just another troll trying to make JanB
less credible or less popular; GEE where did I see something
similar to that? However, I'll give Patricia MY undying gratitude
if she can figure out the identity of the East Coast sniper.
> That whole episode got washed right under the rug.
> And there's alot of other stuff that did, too.
"I don't care" usually should have explained my stand,
and a handful of other people, on those events. Is there
a reason why Patricia doesn't understand the meaning
when other people use that phrase, and why she continues
to misuse that phrase as a description of her feelings towards
some people of this newsgroup?
>
> Jan
> >
> > Excuse me for being so bitchy. I'm usually not like that.
> > My pet Fraggle [tm] just died, and there is a line on
> > Channel 6, and the cable repairman won't come by until
> > the next striped moon. I'm really a nice person.
> >
> Excuse *me* for going against popular opinion and taking up for an underdog
> who is being unjustly crucified. My client is not innocent of all charges,
> your honor....but petty theft does not call for the gas chamber, either.
>
> Jan
Crucified? Boy, that's the second time Patricia used that word.
And yet, she's the same person who claims she doesn't care
what we think. As her lawyer, hope she's paying you enough,
call us when she figures out what she wants. I like the
see-saw as much as the next kid, but eventually I would like
to get off and take a piss.
Jan
"Estrella" <pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com> wrote in message
> Jan wrote:
>
> > While we're in this...what about the person who was behind the 2 or 3
alter
> > personalities that attacked Jan B
> Is there a point to all this? As far as I've seen, JanB was doing
> fine on her own; and I didn't really care about the personal crap
> people piled up about her. Just another troll trying to make JanB
> less credible or less popular;
Except they weren't "just another troll". And that is what got pushed
aside, and what I haven't, and don't intend to dredge up.
> "I don't care" usually should have explained my stand,
> and a handful of other people, on those events.
>
You didn't care, and several others. I DID care, and so did several others.
There are people who read here, but never post. They generally email me,
and seldom get into the frays. This situation was, as I've said before,
bigger than what showed up here. For that, I apologize. You and the others
can't understand because you don't know.
> >
> > Excuse *me* for going against popular opinion and taking up for an
underdog who is being unjustly crucified. My client is not innocent of all
charges,
> > your honor....but petty theft does not call for the gas chamber, either.
> >
> Crucified? Boy, that's the second time Patricia used that word.
> And yet, she's the same person who claims she doesn't care
> what we think. As her lawyer, hope she's paying you enough,
> call us when she figures out what she wants. I like the
> see-saw as much as the next kid, but eventually I would like
> to get off and take a piss.
>
That's MY terminology about the crucifixion....I haven't paid any attention
if Scrat or anyone else used it. And I'm a public defender....I work
free..:-)
I might add you get what you pay for.
I have been pushing her to cop a temporary insanity plea, or even
manslaughter II with mitigating factors. She's bound and determined to take
the stand anyway.....sigh...I'm trying to get Perry Mason to move in on this
case...but somebody said he was on an extended leave in the bahamas right
now...LOL.
Jan
Deidre
wrote:
>"JanB" <janb0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:ur031i2...@corp.supernews.com...
>>> Too
>> > bad that you seem to have forgotten all that went down back then too.
>> > Jan
>>
>> "Back then" when? I told you all along, that Scrat had posted IPs that
>were WRONG,
Other people who didn't post traced those IPs too, and Scrat wasn't
100% right about some of them, but she was enough correct to give her
a passing grade. Scrat had the gumption to post the info, and then
once who the trolls were was rather obvious, it became "let's kill the
messenger", ie Scrat, and ignore the conclusions that could be drawn.
Myself or several other people could have done the same work that
Scrat did. If we had, we wouldn't have bothered to post the info here,
because we had the sense to see that it wouldn't do any good, that
some people had blinkers on, and would ignore the truth.
Jan
"Deidre" <dei...@daydream.com> wrote in message
news:3db11d82...@news.panix.com...
> Other people who didn't post traced those IPs too, and Scrat wasn't
> 100% right about some of them, but she was enough correct to give her
> a passing grade. Scrat had the gumption to post the info, and then
> once who the trolls were was rather obvious, it became "let's kill the
> messenger", ie Scrat, and ignore the conclusions that could be drawn.
> Myself or several other people could have done the same work that
> Scrat did. If we had, we wouldn't have bothered to post the info here,
> because we had the sense to see that it wouldn't do any good, that
> some people had blinkers on, and would ignore the truth.
>
Deidre, remind me to put you on salary at the law firm. You are the voice
of reason and exact fairness in the courtroom. For you to post this it took
some guts. I admire you in many ways, my unbiased friend.
Jan
JanB
> 100% right about some of them, but she was enough correct to give her
> a passing grade. Scrat had the gumption to post the info, and then
> once who the trolls were was rather obvious, it became "let's kill the
> messenger", ie Scrat, and ignore the conclusions that could be drawn.
> Myself or several other people could have done the same work that
> Scrat did. If we had, we wouldn't have bothered to post the info here,
> because we had the sense to see that it wouldn't do any good, that
> some people had blinkers on, and would ignore the truth.
I only knew three of the user's IPs...two of them were VERY wrong. In my
book, that gives her a grade of 33%. (Notice I said MY book...) Not passing,
and not credible, in MY eyes. If you think she did good, then pat the little
girl on the back. That's all she wants, after all...
JanB
Deidre
wrote:
>
>"Jan" <luvdav...@sccoast.net> wrote in message
>news:aoo36g$4hgh$1...@news3.infoave.net...>
>> While we're in this...what about the person who was behind the 2 or 3
>alter
>> personalities that attacked Jan B so badly...and posted all that CRAP
>about
>> her deceased husband and assorted lies thereof.....Nobody spoke up for
>her.
>> Nobody except me and ......hmmm....I believe it was Patricia....who again,
>> at MY indignant request, set about to find out who was responsible.
I made at least one post or so, defending JanB.
>> That whole episode got washed right under the rug.
>> And there's alot of other stuff that did, too.
>>
>> Jan
>
>Jan hon, nobody needs to stand up for me. (And I know you have, on many
>occasions...) I'm a big girl, and I can take care of myself. I never
>mentioned my husband, because unlike Scrat the Brat, I didn't want anyone
>feeling sorry for me. And he has nothing to do with this ng. No one on this
>ng can hurt me, unless they print this page out, roll it up, and poke me in
>the eye with it.
JanB, JanC stood up for you because she was your friend, and wanted to
help support you. That's part of friendship. Was she supposed to stand
by, and let some people here spread nasty untrue rumours about you?
I've found that sometimes the best thing to do in some situations is
to put a stop or have others help put a stop to gossip. JanC's
intentions were to stand by you as a friend. It's really sad that you
seemingly didn't appreciate that she was being your friend. Maybe she
didn't go about things in a way that you cared for, but I would think
that her intentions were of the best. :(
Ya know, I don't get get some parts of this fandom at all. I've been
involved in many fandoms/hobbies/interests over the years, from SF to
dog shows and everything inbetween (nope, I listen to a lot of other
music besides the Monkees <g>), but the online fannish Monkee
"community" is a real puzzlement. Person A and person B will get to
know each other thru this newsgroup or a Monkee mailing list or
chatroom or web-based message board; they will email, chat, maybe even
phone each other, and someday maybe even meet up at a concert or some
other event. By all apperances, they are good "online" friends. Then
person C talks to one of them, and soon person A and person B are not
longer friends, as person C has put a wedge inbetween them. For a
while, person A and person C are "friends", while person B get hung
out to dry. Then person C turns on person A, and runs off to person B,
or maybe person B finds a way to get inbetween persons A and C. Then
persons B and C are "friends", and person A now gets to twist in the
wind. Okay, so maybe this sort of thing is typical in RL or online,
but here's the real kicker: something else happens, and suddenly
person C is the bad guy and persons B and A are "friends" again. I'm
not a psychologist, nor do I play one on TV, but this doesn't seem
like normal adult behavior. It does, however, remind me of some of the
silly crap I saw go on in my middle school or jr.high days, or even
back in elementary schoolor kindergarten. Very immature, it seems. And
very freaking weird.
Deidre
wrote:
>"Deidre" <dei...@daydream.com> wrote in message
>> Other people who didn't post traced those IPs too, and Scrat wasn't
>> 100% right about some of them, but she was enough correct to give her
>> a passing grade. Scrat had the gumption to post the info, and then
>> once who the trolls were was rather obvious, it became "let's kill the
>> messenger", ie Scrat, and ignore the conclusions that could be drawn.
>> Myself or several other people could have done the same work that
>> Scrat did. If we had, we wouldn't have bothered to post the info here,
>> because we had the sense to see that it wouldn't do any good, that
>> some people had blinkers on, and would ignore the truth.
>
>I only knew three of the user's IPs...two of them were VERY wrong. In my
>book, that gives her a grade of 33%.
Okay, then which ones were wrong? If someone else would have posted
that info at the time, maybe that would have helped matters. Maybe
not. Maybe it would have made the flames grow higher. Scrat was very
much the person with the good intentions who by her actions, correct
or not, paid the road to hell for herself on this ng.
>(Notice I said MY book...) Not passing,
>and not credible, in MY eyes. If you think she did good, then pat the little
>girl on the back. That's all she wants, after all...
Her, and Linda, and Sarah, and Sammi and Jennifer, and probably a lot
of other people who post on this ng and those who post on mailing
lists and web-based message board, heck, everyone in the whole world
wants some sort of attention, hopefully positive attention. :) I don't
see anything wrong with that. I do see something wrong with wanting
negative attention, but as I have seen with other people, people who
aren't getting positive attention will settle for negative attention
because it's better than being ignored, for some people. This is sad
but often true. Why do people stay in loveless marriages? Why do kids
defend their abusive parents to the school couselor by saying "oh,
this black eye--I got that when I ran into the doorknob". Why do some
people post only negative stuff on the Net?
AMM was never the best of all possible monkee worlds, but once Sarah
and Linda started over two years ago slinging their crap in this
public forum, the level of social discourse has gone downhill. Because
they showed their butts in public, lots of other trollers and flammers
saw this ng as a place where that rude behavior was acceptable. It's
really too bad. Scrat wasn't a cause but a sympton of what AMM has
become. Gosh, people use to talk about this group called the Monkees
here. :)
Deidre
wrote:
>"Deidre" <dei...@daydream.com> wrote in message
>> Other people who didn't post traced those IPs too, and Scrat wasn't
LOL! Yeah, sometimes I have guts. I believe in things like justice and
fair play and mercy and honesty and trust and balance and moderation
and standing up what for I believe in, and in this cruel and crazy
world, full of shades of gray, those values are old-fashioned, but
that's the way I am.
Thank you, my friend. You're welcome. <smiles>
Jan
"Deidre" <dei...@daydream.com> wrote in message > Okay, then which ones were
wrong? If someone else would have posted
> that info at the time, maybe that would have helped matters.
For the record, here's the original post. One of the ones she got wrong was
Shanie....because he's on Prodigy, and it works like Earthlink and AOL...you
can't trace it very well. There were a couple of other problem ones too.
But she got most of them right....Jan
From: Scrat (plea...@sickofspam.com)
Subject: Here's What I Found Out (Hackers & All) - Everyone Please Read
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.music.monkees
Date: 2002-08-17 10:01:53 PST
First and foremost, the IP that was trying to get into Jan's computer,
matches that of Linda's. Linda does in fact use, Logical Net as her
server!
Second, TheBlackRose & Tom are the same person... - All linked to
Charter Communications in Missouri
Third, DiJean;noyb;N. Pole Girl, are the same people - All linked to
the Board of Regents in GA
Fourth:
Sarah is in VA, she uses SMYTHNET
Jennifer is using the Sacramento Public Library to send posts...
Jan is from S.C., using Horry Telephone Cooperative
Therra is in GA using Earthlink
d3 is in Boulder, CO (or near there), which we knew, he admitted this
Donna is in VA using State U
Lleisa is in NY, using ATT
MJ is in MA using ATT
CARBONA in Australia using INTERNET PRIMUS
Allie is in MA
JoJo is in GA
Klingon is in TX using systems in The Dept. of Health (patient?)
Deidre is in GA using Bellsouth
USERFIRSTNAMELASTNAME is in CA using Earthlink
Cin is in VA using AOL
Shane is in TX using McLeodUSA
Sammi is in Canada using Rogers
Daye is also in Australia (not the same peeps) using CYNET/LABYRINTH
CONNECTIONS
Satisfied?
I'm in PA using ATT
JanB
> Okay, then which ones were wrong? If someone else would have posted
> that info at the time, maybe that would have helped matters. Maybe
> not. Maybe it would have made the flames grow higher. Scrat was very
> much the person with the good intentions who by her actions, correct
> or not, paid the road to hell for herself on this ng.
<snip>
I pointed it out to her, at least twice. (AND was quite nice about it, since
I didn't care for defending Linda in an off-handed way...) One of them was
Shane, and he ALSO pointed it out to her...how many times do we have to
point it out to her, before she gets it? The other person that she got
wrong, hasn't even posted here since, so I choose not to mention them.
JanB