> I pointed it out to her, at least twice. (AND was quite nice about it, since > I didn't care for defending Linda in an off-handed way...) One of them was > Shane, and he ALSO pointed it out to her...how many times do we have to > point it out to her, before she gets it?
I think she "got" it the first time it was pointed out, myself. Shanie uses Prodigy, which is kind of rare. It's a national (or maybe even international?) server, just like AOL. Perhaps she was not familiar with it enough to know that. I certainly wasn't. I would imagine something like Compuserve would throw a tracer into a tailspin, too.
Seems to me her biggest fault in this was acting "certain" about all of them. If she had just put a disclaimer in there about those untraceable servers, it would have covered her. The majority of them were right on the nose, though...and proved the point at the time. Of course, the point escaped the attention of the masses, and the mistakes took off with a life of their own. The dark forces prevailed, and the Ferighi won the skirmish and laughed all the way to the neutral zone.....
I have never had a tantrum on here (in less you didn't mean me...) and I've never "bitched", I was as I said a million times before, merely looking for friendship and advice from other woman, all my friends are guys, they are not a big help. The 5 + girlfriends I do have live in other states/countries. I was never bitching about my life, I was asking for advice, not pity.
On 18 Oct 2002 11:06:55 GMT, bbooth...@aol.com (Bbooth202):
Yes, you did, and I thank you. However, I didn't need defending, my husband did. I can take care of myself, as I've stated before.You can't defend someone that you've never met, emailed or chatted with.
>
> JanB, JanC stood up for you because she was your friend, and wanted to > help support you. That's part of friendship. Was she supposed to stand > by, and let some people here spread nasty untrue rumours about you?
I know that JanC's my friend, and a very good one. I love her to death. But I don't need a mother, I don't need someone defending me. I never asked her, or anyone else to defend me or my husband. As I keep saying, these people can't hurt me. My real friends already know the truth. I don't care about the rest of them.
> I've found that sometimes the best thing to do in some situations is > to put a stop or have others help put a stop to gossip. JanC's > intentions were to stand by you as a friend. It's really sad that you > seemingly didn't appreciate that she was being your friend. Maybe she > didn't go about things in a way that you cared for, but I would think > that her intentions were of the best. :(
Her intentions were very honerable, but she defended the wrong person. Let's not even count the fact that she herself, thought that garbage was true at one point...
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:57:02 GMT, "LLeisa" <lei...@att.com>:
Again, it wasn't deliberate, I didn't realize I was doing it until I saw some old posts. I wasn't trying to use excuses, I was trying to say, hey I'm sorry, shit happened and I guess I took it out on y'all. I've never stalked anyone...
>Barbara doesn't use her limitations and injuries as a reason/excuse to be >bitchy or catty, or stalk people. On the contrary, Barbara is pleasant, >sunny, and upbeat IN SPITE of whatever else life has handed her. When >Barbara posts about whatever ails her, it's usually along the lines of "by >the way, I'll be off line for this this and this reason."
>I have never seen Barbara be anything but nice to people.
>>Barbara doesn't use her limitations and injuries as a reason/excuse to be >>bitchy or catty, or stalk people. On the contrary, Barbara is pleasant, >>sunny, and upbeat IN SPITE of whatever else life has handed her. When >>Barbara posts about whatever ails her, it's usually along the lines of "by >>the way, I'll be off line for this this and this reason."
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:09:51 -0400, "JanB" <janb01_1...@yahoo.com>:
>Jan hon, nobody needs to stand up for me. (And I know you have, on many >occasions...) I'm a big girl, and I can take care of myself. I never >mentioned my husband, because unlike Scrat the Brat, I didn't want anyone >feeling sorry for me. And he has nothing to do with this ng. No one on this >ng can hurt me, unless they print this page out, roll it up, and poke me in >the eye with it.
>Barbara, on the other hand, only states facts. She doesn't feel sorry for >herself, and she doesn't expect us to feel sorry for her. Leave her out of >it. She doesn't deserve your disrespect.
>JanB
Hmmm... So you assume people will feel sorry for you. I never wanted anyone to feel sorry for me and I never meant for any of my posts to look that way. Also, I've never been a brat, maybe a bitch, but not a brat. <g>
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:54:34 -0400, "JanB" <janb01_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Deidre" <dei...@daydream.com> wrote in message >> Okay, then which ones were wrong? If someone else would have posted >> that info at the time, maybe that would have helped matters. Maybe >> not. Maybe it would have made the flames grow higher. Scrat was very >> much the person with the good intentions who by her actions, correct >> or not, paid the road to hell for herself on this ng.
><snip>
>I pointed it out to her, at least twice. (AND was quite nice about it, since >I didn't care for defending Linda in an off-handed way...) One of them was >Shane, and he ALSO pointed it out to her...how many times do we have to >point it out to her, before she gets it? The other person that she got >wrong, hasn't even posted here since, so I choose not to mention them.
Thanks for the info! I found out a while back (like back in the summer) that my news server isn't picking up all the messages here, so I might not have seen those posts from you or Shane. And my other newsfeed is worse. <g> Also, I put a bunch of posters here in my killfilters, so I don't see those posts, except when some one answers them.
Wait, IP's are public knowledge! Anyone can find them and several people on here (names unmentioned) wanted me to post them, so I took the fall for it, oh well. Personally, I don't care if I'm "credible" to you or not. I once thought you were a nice person, Jan even said so, but now you are just being well, you I guess.
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:27:14 -0400, "JanB" <janb01_1...@yahoo.com>:
>"Back then" when? I told you all along, that Scrat had posted IPs that were >WRONG, and that I probably wouldn't believe anything she had to say, since >she had already lost all her credibility with me...?
Thanks Deidre. As a newbie to the group, I thought it might help, I didn't realize it would cause this much trouble or believe, I never would have posted them, but sent them to the parties who wanted to see them. (i.e. IP's)
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:48:35 GMT, dei...@daydream.com (Deidre):
>On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:36:21 -0000, "Jan" <luvdavyNOS...@sccoast.net> >wrote:
>>"JanB" <janb01_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>news:ur031i2e60o216@corp.supernews.com... >>>> Too >>> > bad that you seem to have forgotten all that went down back then too. >>> > Jan
>>> "Back then" when? I told you all along, that Scrat had posted IPs that >>were WRONG,
>Other people who didn't post traced those IPs too, and Scrat wasn't >100% right about some of them, but she was enough correct to give her >a passing grade. Scrat had the gumption to post the info, and then >once who the trolls were was rather obvious, it became "let's kill the >messenger", ie Scrat, and ignore the conclusions that could be drawn. >Myself or several other people could have done the same work that >Scrat did. If we had, we wouldn't have bothered to post the info here, >because we had the sense to see that it wouldn't do any good, that >some people had blinkers on, and would ignore the truth.
>>> and that I probably wouldn't believe anything she had to say, since >>> she had already lost all her credibility with me...?
Just because you only knew 3 of the users IP's, doesn't mean most of the others weren't correct, 2 may have been wrong. But 90 % of them were right. The only reason you didn't know anyone else's IP's, is because I'm assuming you never looked. Also, I don't want a pat on the back.
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:13:18 -0400, "JanB" <janb01_1...@yahoo.com>:
>> Other people who didn't post traced those IPs too, and Scrat wasn't >> 100% right about some of them, but she was enough correct to give her >> a passing grade. Scrat had the gumption to post the info, and then >> once who the trolls were was rather obvious, it became "let's kill the >> messenger", ie Scrat, and ignore the conclusions that could be drawn. >> Myself or several other people could have done the same work that >> Scrat did. If we had, we wouldn't have bothered to post the info here, >> because we had the sense to see that it wouldn't do any good, that >> some people had blinkers on, and would ignore the truth.
>I only knew three of the user's IPs...two of them were VERY wrong. In my >book, that gives her a grade of 33%. (Notice I said MY book...) Not passing, >and not credible, in MY eyes. If you think she did good, then pat the little >girl on the back. That's all she wants, after all...
> Wait, IP's are public knowledge! Anyone can find them and several > people on here (names unmentioned) wanted me to post them, so I took > the fall for it, oh well. Personally, I don't care if I'm "credible" > to you or not. I once thought you were a nice person, Jan even said > so, but now you are just being well, you I guess.
Yes, they are public knowledge. So if we want them, we can go get them ourselves. The oldbies asked you to stop, but..."you being you," didn't. All you ever wanted was attention. You won't get any more from me.
I admitted I got Shane's wrong, after tracing a little deeper I found the right one. I doubt my tracing an IP wrong had anything to do with someone leaving. What were you trying to point out, that I got 2 wrong, so I should be banished from AMM. I've seen more false crap spread in Sarah/Linda fights and nobody says a damn thing. Of course saying anything would be useless, they stop for a few days, week at the most and start fighting again.
Also, On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:54:34 -0400, "JanB" <janb01_1...@yahoo.com>:
>> Okay, then which ones were wrong? If someone else would have posted >> that info at the time, maybe that would have helped matters. Maybe >> not. Maybe it would have made the flames grow higher. Scrat was very >> much the person with the good intentions who by her actions, correct >> or not, paid the road to hell for herself on this ng.
><snip>
>I pointed it out to her, at least twice. (AND was quite nice about it, since >I didn't care for defending Linda in an off-handed way...) One of them was >Shane, and he ALSO pointed it out to her...how many times do we have to >point it out to her, before she gets it? The other person that she got >wrong, hasn't even posted here since, so I choose not to mention them.
>> While we're in this...what about the person who was behind the 2 or 3 alter >> personalities that attacked Jan B so badly...and posted all that CRAP about >> her deceased husband and assorted lies thereof.....Nobody spoke up for her. >> Nobody except me and ......hmmm....I believe it was Patricia....who again, >> at MY indignant request, set about to find out who was responsible.
>Is there a point to all this? As far as I've seen, JanB was doing >fine on her own; and I didn't really care about the personal crap >people piled up about her. Just another troll trying to make JanB >less credible or less popular; GEE where did I see something >similar to that? However, I'll give Patricia MY undying gratitude >if she can figure out the identity of the East Coast sniper.
>> That whole episode got washed right under the rug. >> And there's alot of other stuff that did, too.
>"I don't care" usually should have explained my stand, >and a handful of other people, on those events. Is there >a reason why Patricia doesn't understand the meaning >when other people use that phrase, and why she continues >to misuse that phrase as a description of her feelings towards >some people of this newsgroup?
>> Jan
>> > Excuse me for being so bitchy. I'm usually not like that. >> > My pet Fraggle [tm] just died, and there is a line on >> > Channel 6, and the cable repairman won't come by until >> > the next striped moon. I'm really a nice person.
>> Excuse *me* for going against popular opinion and taking up for an underdog >> who is being unjustly crucified. My client is not innocent of all charges, >> your honor....but petty theft does not call for the gas chamber, either.
>> Jan
>Crucified? Boy, that's the second time Patricia used that word. >And yet, she's the same person who claims she doesn't care >what we think. As her lawyer, hope she's paying you enough, >call us when she figures out what she wants. I like the >see-saw as much as the next kid, but eventually I would like >to get off and take a piss.
I never said crucified and if anyone thinks I did, go look at all the old posts, enter the work Crucified for find and my name for author and I know you won't find a one.
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:00:43 -0000, "Jan" <luvdavyNOS...@sccoast.net>:
>> > While we're in this...what about the person who was behind the 2 or 3 >alter >> > personalities that attacked Jan B
>> Is there a point to all this? As far as I've seen, JanB was doing >> fine on her own; and I didn't really care about the personal crap >> people piled up about her. Just another troll trying to make JanB >> less credible or less popular;
>Except they weren't "just another troll". And that is what got pushed >aside, and what I haven't, and don't intend to dredge up.
>> "I don't care" usually should have explained my stand, >> and a handful of other people, on those events.
>You didn't care, and several others. I DID care, and so did several others. >There are people who read here, but never post. They generally email me, >and seldom get into the frays. This situation was, as I've said before, >bigger than what showed up here. For that, I apologize. You and the others >can't understand because you don't know.
>> > Excuse *me* for going against popular opinion and taking up for an >underdog who is being unjustly crucified. My client is not innocent of all >charges, >> > your honor....but petty theft does not call for the gas chamber, either.
>> Crucified? Boy, that's the second time Patricia used that word. >> And yet, she's the same person who claims she doesn't care >> what we think. As her lawyer, hope she's paying you enough, >> call us when she figures out what she wants. I like the >> see-saw as much as the next kid, but eventually I would like >> to get off and take a piss.
>That's MY terminology about the crucifixion....I haven't paid any attention >if Scrat or anyone else used it. And I'm a public defender....I work >free..:-) >I might add you get what you pay for.
>I have been pushing her to cop a temporary insanity plea, or even >manslaughter II with mitigating factors. She's bound and determined to take >the stand anyway.....sigh...I'm trying to get Perry Mason to move in on this >case...but somebody said he was on an extended leave in the bahamas right >now...LOL. >Jan
See, now your are not "getting it", I don't thrive on attention from strangers or from people in this "group". I have plenty of friends of my own, granted they don't live near me, but they are a phone call away.
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:29:23 -0400, "JanB" <janb01_1...@yahoo.com>:
>"§crat" <AcornoSpamc...@attbitch.comotose> wrote in message >news:3pc0ru8lqi74hrbsaklgc823j0arb1lpuv@4ax.com... >> Wait, IP's are public knowledge! Anyone can find them and several >> people on here (names unmentioned) wanted me to post them, so I took >> the fall for it, oh well. Personally, I don't care if I'm "credible" >> to you or not. I once thought you were a nice person, Jan even said >> so, but now you are just being well, you I guess.
>Yes, they are public knowledge. So if we want them, we can go get them >ourselves. The oldbies asked you to stop, but..."you being you," didn't. All >you ever wanted was attention. You won't get any more from me.
> No, I really don't care, but I have this human need to defend myself.
Why don't you save your need to defend yourself or a time and place that's important. All it's doing here is prolonging your problems and solving nothing.
> Yes, by goodbye, it means I'm kind of leaving the group. First, > I'd like to say something before you start cheering. > The person you've seen is really not me, granted you can choose > not to believe this, but I'm really a very nice, caring person. Some > of you invoked a bad response from me, pushed my buttons and I became > someone I didn't like, hence, I'm leaving. I don't like the person > you saw here, it's not me and I'm sorry for all the crap I've said, > etc. I've been going through a very bad time in my life since about > March and I guess I took it out on people I didn't know, for that I'm > truly sorry. I heard stories that I can't prove aside from word of > mouth and I trust the people who told me, and I used it against > people. I'm sorry. I hope you'll believe me, I hope you'll accept my > apologies. I know that if you met me in person, you'd see I'm truly > not the bitch I've been on here. I've made some good friends here, > and I plan to keep them, but I felt need to justify my actions with > this note. The IP thing was my way of trying to help this mess, but > it failed and I came out on the bottom. > If you want to reply, please do, I'll be lurking. If a good > Monkees subject comes up, I'll post to it. If it's a bitch session, > I'll ignore it. I'm taking the adult approach and acting like one now > and leaving my child like ways behind. Yes, I did act childish, I am > a grown adult and I should not act that way, but granted, I was not > the only one. > Anyway, that it is, I hope you all will accept my apologies, they > are from the heart.
>Geez Scrat tried to say goodbye,and there's like a hundred argument's >against her . Is that fair? Really! Enough already let the women leave >in peace!
>> Yes, by goodbye, it means I'm kind of leaving the group. First, >> I'd like to say something before you start cheering. >> The person you've seen is really not me, granted you can choose >> not to believe this, but I'm really a very nice, caring person. Some >> of you invoked a bad response from me, pushed my buttons and I became >> someone I didn't like, hence, I'm leaving. I don't like the person >> you saw here, it's not me and I'm sorry for all the crap I've said, >> etc. I've been going through a very bad time in my life since about >> March and I guess I took it out on people I didn't know, for that I'm >> truly sorry. I heard stories that I can't prove aside from word of >> mouth and I trust the people who told me, and I used it against >> people. I'm sorry. I hope you'll believe me, I hope you'll accept my >> apologies. I know that if you met me in person, you'd see I'm truly >> not the bitch I've been on here. I've made some good friends here, >> and I plan to keep them, but I felt need to justify my actions with >> this note. The IP thing was my way of trying to help this mess, but >> it failed and I came out on the bottom. >> If you want to reply, please do, I'll be lurking. If a good >> Monkees subject comes up, I'll post to it. If it's a bitch session, >> I'll ignore it. I'm taking the adult approach and acting like one now >> and leaving my child like ways behind. Yes, I did act childish, I am >> a grown adult and I should not act that way, but granted, I was not >> the only one. >> Anyway, that it is, I hope you all will accept my apologies, they >> are from the heart.
<AcornoSpamc...@attbitch.comotose> wrote: > Why can you remember everything I ever posted about "myself"?
Odd behavior is more memorable than normal behavior.
>Y'all is my form of >expression, it's called a southern accent.
It's a contraction for "you all," meaning "all of you," or "everyone." I don't know who wanted you to apologize, if anyone. It wasn't me, so I can tell you without a doubt that there is no "y'all" here.
>Also, I wasn't whining, as >I said before, I thought I had friends on here, I was wrong, I did >make a few though.
I hope you understand this now: If the only way you can discuss an important personal problem with a "friend" is by contacting them about it on a newsgroup, that person isn't a friend. Friends talk about personal matters over lunch, or on the phone, or in email or chat.
I also hope you understand that venting about deeply personal problems is a priviledge, not a right.
>If you don't like AMM so much, why are you still here?
I love amm. It's you I don't like.
> I tried to be nice, apologize in my own way, but nothing is >good enough for you,
Your "own way" isn't good enough. Making things right would be good enough, but you don't seem interested in that. You're only interested in polishing your shiny new veneer.
>better by apologizing and a few so far have accepted it. I never >meant to hurt anyone with the IP thing. > Why are you so negative all >the time, you talk about being a mean, spiteful, bitch and then you >post something like this?
Deidre wrote: > >I only knew three of the user's IPs...two of them were VERY wrong. In my > >book, that gives her a grade of 33%.
> Okay, then which ones were wrong? If someone else would have posted > that info at the time, maybe that would have helped matters. Maybe > not. Maybe it would have made the flames grow higher.
Are we talking about location of people wrong? Or location of the IP wrong? She was right on the button on where the mainframe of the servers were, but she was majorly off on the location of the people. And yes, I did speak up about that ... and tami provided a WONDEFUL example of how IPs can deceive.
"§crat" wrote: > I never said crucified and if anyone thinks I did, go look at all the > old posts, enter the work Crucified for find and my name for author > and I know you won't find a one.
> Prodigy, which is kind of rare. > It's a national (or maybe even international?) server, just like AOL.
Ya know, that's a good question. I am not even sure if it's international myself. I CAN tell you that Prodigy kind of dissolved into SBC Yahoo Dial recently, so even though my email addy has stayed the same, this is, in essence a totally new ISP.
I must say that it's nice to see that I'm still being "talked about" here. :-) Especially since there hasn't been much for me to post about here anymore....y'all are welcome to drop by alt.music.chicago anytime though! (Deidre, you too!--where didja go??)
Okay, back to lurkdome again With two weeks to Peoria,
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:23:49 -0000, "Jan" <luvdavyNOS...@sccoast.net> wrote:
>Several of you have made an issue of Patricia's personal problems. Yet, and >this is not a put down to her, you have ALWAYS accepted Barbara Booth's >continual comments about knee surgeries, caregiving, sprained ankles, >indigestion, and everything else under the sun. Yes, Barbara is always nice >to everyone. But you don't say one word about what she says.
BB and Scrat have very little in common. Barbara is here because she's a huge Monkees/PT fan, and has been for many years. In that respect, she probably has more right to be here than most of us. Scrat shows very little interest in the topic of this newsgroup. She just seems to be trying to glom onto someone, anyone, anywhere, and this group is her current target.
In a newsgroup and list sense, we KNOW Barbara. She's been around for years. Many of us have met her in person. Whatever she writes, we know there are no ulterior motives behind her words, because we have built up trust through years of experience with her. Scrat is just a stranger who recently arrived at the invitation of amm's reigning troll. I *know* Barbara's situation is real. I have never met Scrat, nor do I know anyone who has, so I don't know if *anything* she has told us is real. She could be making up everything just to get attention, for all I know.
Barbara's notes about her health are usually short, sweet, infrequent, and easy to avoid. (Oh, and the knee? That happened at a PT show, didn't it?) Scrat is in-your-face, demanding attention.
>Unfortunately, and I've said this before to deaf ears, I am the one that >probably egged Patricia on as far as tracing IP's. We were in the middle of >a mystery at that time, and I didn't know how.
It was her choice to post them here, rather than sending them to you privately.
> Because of her help, I know >how now...and I'm rather thankful to her for that.
Jan, all Scrat did was set amm up for endless abuse. I don't know if she did it purposely, or out of her own cluelessness. I would hope it's the latter, but I just don't know.
What I do know is this: If all you have learned is how to trace an IP address, you know just enough to be fooled quite easily. The worst thing you can believe is, "IPs never lie." People who have decent skills at faking identities would LOVE to have you believe that, because that allows them carte blanche to use IPs which trace to another provider, or another part of the world. "That can't be <blank>, because it pings to the wrong state." A statement which can be only one of two things: intentionally misleading, or idiotic. Either by design, or by accident, Scrat *protected* fakes.
Some of us were OPs on IRC, writing IP-based bans while Scrat was still in high school. We know how to trace an IP, and we know the limitations of tracing. We know something about the techniques for getting online using another IP. It's easy, and it's quite common. People have been faking identities on amm for years, but most of them were painfully clueless, and didn't realize they were doing it wrong, and could be seen. And, except in cases where real harm was being done, NO ONE MENTIONED IT HERE. Why would we alert these idiots to their own lack of knowledge? They would only learn how to be more stealthy next time.
Deidre wrote: >It does, however, remind me of some of the > silly crap I saw go on in my middle school or jr.high days, or even > back in elementary schoolor kindergarten. Very immature, it seems. And > very freaking weird.
Aren't you lucky! No, seriously, you are lucky with a capital L. I see this at work, with adults who at least have two years of college under their belt. Despite how you see me "talking" here at times, I'm very laconic (read: the lady with two word sentences), so I'm aware of the social interactions. The "love-hate" relationships drive me up the wall at times. If anyone who has seen the Friends' episode when Ross dates this lady named Julie; and how Rachel acts ("what a manipulative, bitch!") after Julie tells her that she (Julie) wants to try to be friends - that's how it's like sometimes ... with both sides.
