MADONNA VS MICHAEL JACKSON
Justin Pugh
Off the Wall - 15 million
Thriller - 51 million
Bad - 28 million
Dangerous - 27 million
History - 15 million
Blood on the Dance Floor - 4 million
Invincible - 10 million
Total Record Sales : 150 million ( if these are shipped figures to make Kyle
happy... I will subtract 2 million copies per album to suffice with a
substantial shipped figure left over to continue in sales...)
Total Units Sold : 136 million (-2 million per album for shipped units)
Now... because there hasn't been a recent audit of his album sales, because
of all the sales of the special edition releases, which have sold out all
over the world... and a reported 1 million copies released of each album
from Off the Wall to Dangerous... these album sales could be 1 million units
more than what they are... but because I want to go with what the average
Michael Jackson fan believes he has sold then its only fair to stick with
the factual numbers.
Keep in mind the last album audit of Bad was in 1994... Thriller's last
audit according to RIAA was in 1995... History also... so these album sales
could be alot higher on both scales... domestically and internationally...
and the same can be said for Madonna... her sales maybe alot higher than
Michael's if these audits haven't been done in almost a decade...
Now according to Madonna's Fanclub (http://www.absolutemadonna.com)
Note I will be subtracting 2 million units from each album to allow a leeway
for shipped figures left to be sold...
I also gave GHV2 its own figure of 5 million records... because it has not
yet been certified by the RIAA or has been given a reliable worldwide
figure... so I assume it has sold at least 1 million in the USA and 4
million units internationally (fair enough?)
Madonna' Record Sales Are As Follows:
GHV2 Nov/13/01 7 2 5
MUSIC Sept/19/00 1 1 2 12
Ray of Light Mar/3/98 2 1 12/11/98 4 14 M
Evita Nov/12/96 2 1 4/8/97 5 11 M
Something To Remember Nov/7/95 6 3 11/18/96 3 8 M
Bedtime Stories Oct/25/94 3 2 2/27/95 2 6 M
Erotica Oct/20/92 2 2 1/6/93 2 5 M
Immaculate Collection Nov/13/90 2 1 10/18/01 10 22 M
I'm Breathless May/22/90 2 2 7/30/90 2 5 M
Like a Prayer Mar/21/89 1 1 7/16/97 4 13 M
You Can Dance Nov/17/87 14 5 1/20/88 1 5 M
Who's That Girl Jul/21/87 7 4 9/29/87 1 5 M
True Blue Jun/30/86 1 1 2/9/95 7 20 M
Like a Virgin Nov/12/84 1 1 5/2/98 10 19 M
Madonna Jul/27/83 8 6 3/22/88 5 8 M
Total Album Sales: 153 million
Total Units Sold: (-2 million per album for shipped units) 125 million
Because she has released more records I understand her shipped figure
(remaining 2 million per album ) is 28 million records, but its only fair?
And that makes Michael Jackson the Biggest Selling Artist... now if you go
with those flat figures given by Absolute Madonna... Madonna comes out on
top by 3 million copies (making no difference because she is still going to
have more units sold than Michael)
But Kyle if you want to talk shipped then lets do an average of 2 million
units.
But when you are asked... about Jackson 5 compilations and should they be
added... well only in fair respects to solo stardom, no they should not be
added... and therefore done of those sales have been inflated in noway!
Um...
Total Units Sold:
Michael Jackson
150 million ( 7 albums )
-2 million per album ( 14 million albums)
= 136 million
Madonna
153 million
+5 million units due to an untabulated international figure to rely on for
GHV2
-2 million per album (14 albums)
= 130 million
If what I have done is a fair enough assumption of shipped figures on
average Michael Jackson is the Biggest Selling Artist...??
But I'm not looking to prove anything...
I want to see what you think Kyle... because your figures were just plain
made up and I know that...
I have heard from many sources Madonna's sales are in reconstruction...
And I would believe the same for Michael Jackson...
Keep in mind...
Thriller, Bad, and Off the Wall all stayed in the top 10 of the Album
Catalog Charts during the Invincible Chart Reign... which means those albums
sold tremendously well in the US... and probably now that wholesale prices
have gone down on his albums sales are increasing all over the world... and
the same can be said for Madonna.
So what do you think?
I'm not taking any of this personal.. so don't come flaring torches and
making this a huge issue... I'm just having a little fun here... (all my HW
is done so I'm bored)
Nat
MJinsider
you come prepared with references and sources to back up disputable claims such
as numbers sold? I am sure people like Bill and Klys will be able to verify
those numbers. Personally I have no idea what they are, but appreciate reading
these kind of post most when they have some validity to them. Like are they
units shipped, or sold?
<< Subject: MADONNA VS MICHAEL JACKSON
From: "Justin Pugh" jp...@knology.net
Date: Mon, Oct 21, 2002 9:04 AM
Message-id: <ur6kkmb...@corp.supernews.com>
The Church of Michael Jackson
"MJinsider" <mjin...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20021020214037...@mb-ft.aol.com...
The Church of Michael Jackson
"Nat" <BettyBo...@hotmail.com> wrote > Justin Pugh <jp...@knology.net> wrote:
>
> > Invincible - 10 million
>
> Wrong
Well, 8 or 9...
But he DID debut at number 1!
Justin Pugh
in subsitution for units shipped I subtracted 2 million units from each
album...
For both Michael and Madonna...
"MJinsider" <mjin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021020214037...@mb-ft.aol.com...
Justin Pugh
YOU TELL ME THE EXACT NUMBER THEN YOU TELL ME IM WRONG!
DONT SAY WRONG AND CANT BACK IT UP!!!
OK HOW ABOUT THIS...
INVINCIBLE HAS SOLD 7 MILLION COPIES...
"Nat" <BettyBo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1fkdcnr.k04l6p9nwtuyN%BettyBo...@hotmail.com...
Justin Pugh
shipped) I have decided to change the figure...
(He seems not to have any disputes with Madonna's sales...?)
136 million records
-10
+7
-2
= 131 million
Now I have been asked for refrences or sources... to be honest with you my
sources are just the numbers I have found all over the internet... and on
other Michael Jackson websites...
I found Madonna's figures on her website... so there is no difference in
where I found Michael's numbers...
Im not here to make up numbers and figures...
But I hate it when people like Kyle do things like that!
"Justin Pugh" <jp...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:ur6kkmb...@corp.supernews.com...
The Church of Michael Jackson
Just ask anyone in the street: "Who's bigger, MJ or Madonna?" They'll say MJ, even those who do not like him.
John Smith
What's wrong with sticking with one number?
"Justin Pugh" <jp...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:ur6prff...@corp.supernews.com...
kyle.
>made up and I know that...
Um, I posted the link. & the other one was straight out of Soundscan.
>Thriller, Bad, and Off the Wall all stayed in the top 10 of the Album
>Catalog Charts during the Invincible Chart Reign... which means those albums
>sold tremendously well in the US...
Um, you know it only takes a few thousand to make the Catalog Charts right? &
that's SHIPPEd. Of course the label is going to ship out copies of older albumz
when a new one is coming out.
kyle.
Porn Star Quote Of The Week
"I looked at this guy and thought, 'If I just do him & not look at him and have
pleasure, then I can do anything."
-Ginger Lynn on Ron Jeremy
kyle.
>say MJ, even those who do not like him.
Well lets see, Madonna sells more records, has more hits, more chart time, more
pictures taken of her, more articles written about her, more people come 2 her
tours (in a quicker amount of time), more people visit her website, yet you
think a guy who's last substantial hit was a decade ago is bigger?
Please
jeffersj
>
> Just ask anyone in the street: "Who's bigger, MJ or Madonna?" They'll
> say MJ, even those who do not like him.
And that is the reason why he is so hated. Like Timberlake (I hate
him, but he did make an interesting comment) said in a interview
recently, "No matter what Mike does he still the King, he really is
the most important entertainer in the industry." BTW, isn't funny how
Timberlake is working overtime to get the urban audience? When the
urban audience got behind "Invincible", white people acted as if they
weren't important. LOL!
Randal Sheppard
Michael Jackson have sold more records? Isn't it enough to just prefer one
to the other?
At any rate, sales do not a great artist make!
All the best,
Randal Sheppard
Justin Pugh
Michael Jackson has'nt toured in 5 years and still has sold more tickets
than Madonna, I hate to say!
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021023639...@mb-fb.aol.com...
Justin Pugh
copies...
And they didnt care to read that I substracted 2 million copies to suffice
with a reasonable shipped figure!
"John Smith" <patman_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0ULs9.577067$f05.24...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
Justin Pugh
newsgroup belittle every acheivement Michael Jackson has had!
And its not fair!
"Randal Sheppard" <webm...@REMOVEsir-cliff.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92AEB5A44AEF9we...@210.49.20.254...
Justin Pugh
billboard just as much as I do...
you never gave any link to the Soundscan figures and you have yet to repost
that link!
You gave a bunch of numbers on a page... that you made up because if the
RIAA is outdated and under udited by over 20 million records maybe they
ouugh to hire you to set the record straight!
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021023411...@mb-fb.aol.com...
Nat
> Michael Jackson has'nt toured in 5 years and still has sold more tickets
> than Madonna, I hate to say!
?????
Nat
> INVINCIBLE HAS SOLD 7 MILLION COPIES...
That might be close to true by now, world wide.
Nat
> When the
> urban audience got behind "Invincible", white people acted as if they
> weren't important. LOL!
No generalization there.
Lewis
about - Michael Jackson. You know, it's not the end of the world if someone
doesn't like him guys - get a life and get something else in your life
except worrying about how many album's he's sold!!!
I am a huge fan, but you guys take stuff way too far. Besides it's not about
how many albums have been sold it's about who's had the most influence on
the people. I'd say Michael Jackson as there are ALWAYS people imitating
what he does. And like someone said, he's already done it before them and
BETTER. Saying that though, Madonna has also done similar things, but I'm
not a Madonna fan so I can't really comment. Maybe they're both equal which
is why they are labelled the king and queen of pop!!!! The two cannot be
compared, they're both artists in their own right. Why don't all the fans
just enjoy what he's done and what he's probably going to do in the future
and stop arguing with other people about pointless things like album
sales!!!!!!
"Justin Pugh" <jp...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:ur7koq2...@corp.supernews.com...
Bill
I agree and it seems that a lot of times, the most influential artists
are ones that never sold millions and millions of albums. The Velvet
Underground, the Sex Pistols, the New York Dolls, Frank Zappa, the
Pixies to name a few.
Bill
hippocrocamoose
Forget shipped, which is confusing, let's talk about SOLD.
all you can do is speculate about numbers sold.
there is no way to count every copy of an album sold, as every music store
(and everywhere else you can by music now) does not report its sales to the
same people.
all you can do is count the number shipped, this is as close as it gets,
(the albums wouldn't be shipped if they were not expected to sell)
John Smith
in the crowd waving his hand and bobbing his head. lol
"jeffersj" <jeff...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:177b0d52.02102...@posting.google.com...
hippocrocamoose
> Justin Pugh <jp...@knology.net> wrote:
>
> > INVINCIBLE HAS SOLD 7 MILLION COPIES...
>
> That might be close to true by now, world wide.
invincible has sold 10 million (maybe more now) worldwide
BTW - there is NO way to tell exactly how many albums have been sold
worldwide, thats why you go off the number shipped (they wouldn't ship the
albums if they were not expected to sell)
John Smith
recall the audience being quite like these people are.
"jeffersj" <jeff...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:177b0d52.02102...@posting.google.com...
Nat
> invincible has sold 10 million (maybe more now) worldwide
No, not even close. It's shipped about 9 million, and there are
millions unsold or returned.
>
> BTW - there is NO way to tell exactly how many albums have been sold
> worldwide, thats why you go off the number shipped (they wouldn't ship the
> albums if they were not expected to sell)
LOL. They do it quite a bit because they want the artist to appear to
have sold more. Aside from fixed costs, it's not much to make the
copies. I'm sure they expected Invincible to ship more on MJ's name
alone, but it didn't. If it had, there would have been another running.
Invincible is in the bargain racks and on ebay for a dollar now, all on
the first run.
hippocrocamoose
> >made up and I know that...
>
> Um, I posted the link. & the other one was straight out of Soundscan.
soundscan only gets its numbers from large american record stores, not from
local stores or independant traders. it also ignores the rest of the world
hippocrocamoose
> Well lets see, Madonna sells more records,
thats in dispute.
>has more hits,
ok
> more chart time,
how long was thriller and bad on the charts ?
>more
> pictures taken of her,
i doubt that
>more articles written about her,
again.
>more people come 2 her
> tours (in a quicker amount of time),
nope, i doubt that.
more people visit her website,
you have the numbers ?
>yet you
> think a guy who's last substantial hit was a decade ago is bigger?
what do you mean "substantial" ?
blood on the dace floor, ghosts/history, and you rock my world, were all
hits.
what would you consider madonnas last substantial hit ?
Randal Sheppard
> Sales dont make a great artist, but my point is alot of people in this
> newsgroup belittle every acheivement Michael Jackson has had!
>
> And its not fair!
>
Well, yeah, I do agree that there are a lot of people in here who try and
write off his every achievement.
Tattoo Vampire
> Michael Jackson has'nt toured in 5 years and still has sold more tickets
> than Madonna, I hate to say!
You, of course, have figures to back up your claim regarding MJ/Madonna
ticket sakes? Thought not.
--
[tv]
You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You will learn a lot today.
10/21/2002 11:01 AM
Remove "comorgbiz" when emailing
Tattoo Vampire
> You really are getting silly now. Firstly, this is a man we're talking
> about - Michael Jackson. You know, it's not the end of the world if someone
> doesn't like him guys - get a life and get something else in your life
> except worrying about how many album's he's sold!!!
> I am a huge fan, but you guys take stuff way too far. Besides it's not about
> how many albums have been sold it's about who's had the most influence on
> the people. I'd say Michael Jackson as there are ALWAYS people imitating
> what he does. And like someone said, he's already done it before them and
> BETTER. Saying that though, Madonna has also done similar things, but I'm
> not a Madonna fan so I can't really comment. Maybe they're both equal which
> is why they are labelled the king and queen of pop!!!! The two cannot be
> compared, they're both artists in their own right. Why don't all the fans
> just enjoy what he's done and what he's probably going to do in the future
> and stop arguing with other people about pointless things like album
> sales!!!!!!
Sad to say, but if not for the flames and pissing contests, this group
would be seeing very little activity. Kind of like the Kiss and Van Halen
newsgroups, or any other NG where the artist hasn't done much of interest
in a while.
--
[tv]
Earth is a great big fun house without the fun.
10/21/2002 11:04 AM
Remove "comorgbiz" when emailing
Tattoo Vampire
> When the
> urban audience got behind "Invincible", white people acted as if they
> weren't important. LOL!
????????
--
[tv]
Beware of a half truth; you may be getting the wrong half.
10/21/2002 11:07 AM
Remove "comorgbiz" when emailing
John Smith
"hippocrocamoose" <Ric...@townsley7.freeserve.co.ukfake> wrote in message
news:ap11ka$e6g$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
Jamison Leggett
Justin, what about Michael's first four solo albums(1971-1975) and the
Motown ripoffs?You started with Off The Wall's sales.
hippocrocamoose
> No, not even close. It's shipped about 9 million, and there are
> millions unsold or returned.
whats your source ?
> LOL. They do it quite a bit because they want the artist to appear to
> have sold more.
umm all it does is make them go gold or platinum (and costs more)
> Aside from fixed costs, it's not much to make the
> copies.
it still costs, plus it's not just upto the record company how many units to
ship, they have to be bought by a retailer (supply and demand)
you can't just ship out 10 million albums to make an artist look good
> I'm sure they expected Invincible to ship more on MJ's name
> alone, but it didn't.
i'm sure they didn't otherwise they'd have shipped out a hell of alot more
in the fist place.
10 million albums for a performer of 44 is very good.
> If it had, there would have been another running.
> Invincible is in the bargain racks and on ebay for a dollar now, all on
> the first run.
not yet, in the uk
hippocrocamoose
news:7c58ruclt3s0pht5p...@news-west.giganews.com...
> "hippocrocamoose" <Ric...@townsley7.freeserve.co.ukfake> wrote:
>
> >invincible has sold 10 million (maybe more now) worldwide
> >
> >BTW - there is NO way to tell exactly how many albums have been sold
> >worldwide, thats why you go off the number shipped (they wouldn't ship
the
> >albums if they were not expected to sell)
>
whatever, i notice you don't have the information to correct me. you can't
even have a discussion with someone on the net without throwing in insults,
and yet expect people to take you seriously
simple fact - there is NO way to tell exactly how many albums have been
"sold" to fans.
there are people who buy from independant stores, these sales do not even
count towards the charts let alone sales figures.
Nat
> > No, not even close. It's shipped about 9 million, and there are
> > millions unsold or returned.
>
> whats your source ?
You name it (other than this little group of KOPers). It was common
knowledge that 9 million were distributed in the first place, and there
have been no more runs since.
Epic stated that 5.x million were sold at the end of the year. There
has not been much activity in sales since then. Only bargain bin prices
and online auctions for $1. That is pretty telling.
> > LOL. They do it quite a bit because they want the artist to appear to
> > have sold more.
>
> umm all it does is make them go gold or platinum (and costs more)
Well, yes, that's the point.
>
> > Aside from fixed costs, it's not much to make the
> > copies.
>
> it still costs, plus it's not just upto the record company how many units to
> ship, they have to be bought by a retailer (supply and demand)
> you can't just ship out 10 million albums to make an artist look good
Sure you can. Distribution centers.
>
> > I'm sure they expected Invincible to ship more on MJ's name
> > alone, but it didn't.
>
> i'm sure they didn't otherwise they'd have shipped out a hell of alot more
> in the fist place.
> 10 million albums for a performer of 44 is very good.
No, they would not ship more than they did in any case. What an
exposure risk!
It always comes back to how great he's doing for a performer of 44.
LOL. Elvis is doing pretty darn good too.
kyle.
>Motown ripoffs?You started with Off The Wall's sales.
>
>
Because THEN he can say that Madonna released more albumz
kyle.
>invincible has sold 10 million (maybe more now) worldwide
>
Um, how can it have sold more than they've actually made?
kyle.
>there is no way to count every copy of an album sold, as every music store
>(and everywhere else you can by music now) does not report its sales to the
>same people.
No but it is the most acurate system we have, & it is MORE acurate than the
RIAA going by what the labels SHIP out.
Sony can say we expect this to be huge so we'll ship out 800 million copiez,
but if nobody decidez 2 buy one, it wuz all pointless
kyle.
>count towards the charts let alone <sales figures.
That's not true. Many independent stores have signed up for it in order to get
a deal with labels to get discounts for mass orders
kyle.
>is why they are labelled the king and queen of pop!!!!
True, but MJ donned himself KOP, Madonna didn't.
Madge is still putting out huge #1 hits & huge records, MJ isn't
kyle.
>> Michael Jackson has'nt toured in 5 years and still has sold more tickets
>> than Madonna, I hate to say!
Um, that's not true AT ALL AND she's done about 3 less tours than him
kyle.
>
Why not? Sony did it with Mariah & look at her now.
>10 million albums for a performer of 44 is >very good.
WORLDWIDE. & it hasn't SOLD that.
Randal Sheppard
news:3DB3F8AA...@attglobal.net:
>
> I agree and it seems that a lot of times, the most influential artists
> are ones that never sold millions and millions of albums. The Velvet
> Underground, the Sex Pistols, the New York Dolls, Frank Zappa, the
> Pixies to name a few.
>
As a slightly moronic response, I just have to say that The Pixies rock! ;)
kyle.
>> pictures taken of her,
>
>i doubt that
Um, if you saw the list, last year alone, Madonna was the ONLY music artist in
the top 8. & the first female on the list.
It's been just about the same for the last 20 years, although she was in
competition with Princess Di for a few years.
>>more articles written about her,
>
>again.
See above. Although article wise she was the first musical artist (again), but
the next one was Britney & *N Sync, followed by Eminem. Once again, political
people, terrorism & Tiger Woods were in the Top 5 last year.
>>more people come 2 her
>> tours (in a quicker amount of time),
>nope, i doubt that.
Um, she sold out every date in 24 minutes. a record. We're talking about 25,000
seater arenas a night, with multiple shows in each city.
>more people visit her website,
>
>you have the numbers ?
Yes it was all over the news the day her official website launched over the
summer. It's the most amount of hits to ANY website in one day with 4 million
in its first day. E-Bay was the next closest. To give some perspective, about
350,000 people visited Mariah Carey's website LAST YEAR (all year) & Madonna
had 4 million in one day.
>what do you mean "substantial" ?
>blood on the dace floor, ghosts/history, and you rock my world, were all
>hits.
Not in the US. YRMW came and went very quickly here in the states. BOTDF,
Ghosts weren't hits @ all here.
>what would you consider madonnas last >substantial hit ?
Besides the current Die Another Day which is #24 in its second week with a
bullet, and it being the #1 most added song to radio in its first 3 days, all
on airplay alone.
If we're not talking about that, we could go back to her last release before
that, What It Feels Like For A Girl, which hit #23, sold a million copies, was
a #1 dance record and stayed in the Hot 100 for over 2 months.
We could even go to the release before that, Don't Tell Me, which hit #4,
stayed in the top 10 for a month, stayed on the charts for 3 months and sold a
million copies & hit #1 on the dance charts. The video was a huge huge hit,
being the 6th most played video on MTV that year.
The 3rd most played video that year? Madonna's Music, which hit #1 on the
charts (in 28 countries), sold 2 million copies, hit #1 in dance, and stayed on
the charts for 3 months.
We could continue going back, because all of the singles from Ray Of Light were
very succesful as well (save Nothing Really Matters, which charted, but was her
lowest charting single), though the video got a lot of airplay.
hippocrocamoose
> Why not? Sony did it with Mariah & look at her now.
they sent out what they expected to sell.
> >10 million albums for a performer of 44 is >very good.
>
> WORLDWIDE. & it hasn't SOLD that.
yes 10 million worldwide for an artist 44 years old is very good
Bill
"kyle." wrote:
> >>more people come 2 her
> >> tours (in a quicker amount of time),
> >nope, i doubt that.
>
> Um, she sold out every date in 24 minutes. a record. We're talking about 25,000
> seater arenas a night, with multiple shows in each city.
Man, you keep holding onto this like it was a life raft. It's already
been shown to you that this didn't happen with Earl's Court alone taking
6 hours to sell out. And even if you take out EC, the only possible way
for the entire tour to sell out in 24 minutes is if every date went
onsale at the exact same moment. Since that wasn't the case (ticket
sales for added dates happened on different days), it is impossible for
the whole tour to sell out in 24 minutes.
Then again, maybe you can tell us how the reception of Swept Away was at
the Cannes Film Festival this year since you are always so right about
these things.
Bill
kyle.
>the whole tour to sell out in 24 minutes.
Um no its not. If some tix go on sale on Saturday A & they sell out in 22
minutes. & tix go on sale on Saturday B & sell out in 24 minutes, the tour has
still sold out its tickets in 24 minutes
hippocrocamoose
> You name it (other than this little group of KOPers). It was common
> knowledge that 9 million were distributed in the first place, and there
> have been no more runs since.
> Epic stated that 5.x million were sold at the end of the year. There
> has not been much activity in sales since then. Only bargain bin prices
> and online auctions for $1. That is pretty telling.
umm there were more than 10 million shipped worldwide
> No, they would not ship more than they did in any case. What an
> exposure risk!
10 million wold wide is not over exposure.
think about how many countries there are.
> It always comes back to how great he's doing for a performer of 44.
> LOL.
yeh, obviously because thats what he is.
>Elvis is doing pretty darn good too.
elvis is dead, so yeh again obvious, altho elvis #1's only spent one week
at #1 in the uk.
not great for someone as well known and dead as he is.
kyle.
>
>they sent out what they expected to sell.
Oh, then why did they do it with MC's release after that? & the one after that?
Mariah Carey was being overshipped by Sony to get her certs up. When this was
looked into, she mysteriously was divorced by her husband and dropped from the
label. When she went 2 her new label, she sold horribly (like she had all
along).
Now her new release with her 3rd label (in a year), the new release hasn't
charted in its 5th week & so they've added a who's who of young hot artists to
put on her record to try & force people 2 buy it.
>yes 10 million worldwide for an artist 44 >years old is very good
Jeez, than I guess the 14 million SOLD for Ray Of Light is really amazing.
hippocrocamoose
> >there are people who buy from independant stores, these sales do not even
> >count towards the charts let alone <sales figures.
>
> That's not true. Many independent stores have signed up for it in order
to get
> a deal with labels to get discounts for mass orders
MANY have not, and please for the last time america is not the only country
in the world (yet)
hippocrocamoose
> Um, how can it have sold more than they've actually made?
umm IF they only made 9 million copys (like you say) how could they possibly
have distributed it worldwide ?
lets see
3 million for the usa
2 million for the uk
that leaves only 4 million copys for the rest of the world
i suggest you check your sources
DealahZ
Bill
"kyle." wrote:
>
> > it is impossible for
> >the whole tour to sell out in 24 minutes.
>
> Um no its not. If some tix go on sale on Saturday A & they sell out in 22
> minutes. & tix go on sale on Saturday B & sell out in 24 minutes, the tour has
> still sold out its tickets in 24 minutes
> kyle.
Is this like new math for you Kyle? How do you come up with 24 minutes
in this example. And how do you explain how Earl's Court took 6 hours
to sell out and still fall within your example?
Bill
hippocrocamoose
> No but it is the most acurate system we have, & it is MORE acurate than
the
> RIAA going by what the labels SHIP out.
hang on you're saying speculation is more acurate than looking at the actual
figures of shipped records ?
> Sony can say we expect this to be huge so we'll ship out 800 million
copiez,
> but if nobody decidez 2 buy one, it wuz all pointless
exactly why they wouldn't ship a stupid amount like 800 million.
they ship out enough to cover their expected figures (yes there is alot of
marketing that goes on)
(record companies are a business you know
Nat
> umm there were more than 10 million shipped worldwide
Okay, you're so big on sources....where is yours? There isn't one
because there is no way there were more than 10 million shipped. It's a
business, you know?
kyle.
>
Now Sony lies too??
>3 million for the usa
>2 million for the uk
>
>that leaves only 4 million copys for the rest of the world
Um, its only shipped 2 million in the US. It's now at 1.38 sold.
That leaves 7 million for the rest of the world
kyle.
>figures of shipped records ?
No I said nothing about speculation. I said SOUNDSCAN is the most accurate
system we have (which is why everyone uses it).
>they ship out enough to cover their expected figures (yes there is alot of
As I said, they can say "Oh we think this is going 2 be huge, lets ship 5
million copies" & if nobody buyz it therez 5 million copiez out there sitting
on the shelvez. So, shipped has nothing 2 do with it
kyle.
fall within <your example?
b/c ure not talking domestically & the associated press & Billboard were.
hippocrocamoose
> >>more
> >> pictures taken of her,
> >
> >i doubt that
>
> Um, if you saw the list, last year alone, Madonna was the ONLY music
artist in
> the top 8. & the first female on the list.
what list ?
> Um, she sold out every date in 24 minutes. a record. We're talking about
25,000
> seater arenas a night, with multiple shows in each city.
WHAT ? you think she sold out a worldwide tour in 24 mins ? WTF ?
> Yes it was all over the news the day her official website launched over
the
> summer. It's the most amount of hits to ANY website in one day with 4
million
> in its first day. E-Bay was the next closest. To give some perspective,
about
> 350,000 people visited Mariah Carey's website LAST YEAR (all year) &
Madonna
> had 4 million in one day.
4 million in one day ? LOL you're making everthing up as you go along
> >what do you mean "substantial" ?
> >blood on the dace floor, ghosts/history, and you rock my world, were all
> >hits.
>
> Not in the US. YRMW came and went very quickly here in the states. BOTDF,
> Ghosts weren't hits @ all here.
well not in the rest of the world.
> Besides the current Die Another Day which is #24 in its second week with a
> bullet, and it being the #1 most added song to radio in its first 3 days,
all
> on airplay alone.
riding on the back of a bond film, and you know this single isn't gonna be
huge
> If we're not talking about that, we could go back to her last release
before
> that, What It Feels Like For A Girl, which hit #23, sold a million copies,
was
> a #1 dance record and stayed in the Hot 100 for over 2 months.
ok great, "substantial hit" is what you said tho, it's a great song but
nothing special
> We could even go to the release before that, Don't Tell Me, which hit #4,
> stayed in the top 10 for a month, stayed on the charts for 3 months and
sold a
> million copies & hit #1 on the dance charts. The video was a huge huge
hit,
> being the 6th most played video on MTV that year.
another good song but nothing special
> The 3rd most played video that year? Madonna's Music, which hit #1 on the
> charts (in 28 countries), sold 2 million copies, hit #1 in dance, and
stayed on
> the charts for 3 months.
see above
> We could continue going back, because all of the singles from Ray Of Light
were
> very succesful as well (save Nothing Really Matters, which charted, but
was her
> lowest charting single), though the video got a lot of airplay.
you'd have to go all the way back to like a prayer - one of her few songs
that will be rememberd
plus i might add that songs in the USA have a tendancy to stay on the single
charts longer than anywhere else because ofthe way they are handled (airplay
rather than sales)
hippocrocamoose
> Um no its not. If some tix go on sale on Saturday A & they sell out in 22
> minutes. & tix go on sale on Saturday B & sell out in 24 minutes, the tour
has
> still sold out its tickets in 24 minutes
er... no that means SOME places sold out in 24 mins...... (however most of
these are sold to smaller businesses who will then sell the tickets again
(inc. transport etc.))
hippocrocamoose
> Okay, you're so big on sources....where is yours?
sony as far as MJ is concerned, plus all the usuall (rolling stone, Q, etc)
> There isn't one
> because there is no way there were more than 10 million shipped.
ok listen and absorb what i'm telling you
going by what u're saying:
10 million albums
4 million for the USA
2 million for the UK
that leaves 4 million albums to be distributed to the rest of the world -
asia, australia, europe, etc. not enough to go round
>It's a
> business, you know?
exactly !!
you cant sell an album if theres none in stock.
Lewis
year, and the eveent at which this happened please "kyle" ???????
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021125032...@mb-mh.aol.com...
hippocrocamoose
> >> Why not? Sony did it with Mariah & look at her now.
> >
> >they sent out what they expected to sell.
>
> Oh, then why did they do it with MC's release after that? & the one after
that?
> Mariah Carey was being overshipped by Sony to get her certs up. When this
was
> looked into, she mysteriously was divorced by her husband and dropped from
the
> label. When she went 2 her new label, she sold horribly (like she had all
> along).
because they thought they were on to something with her.
why would a label spend millions shipping out albums that they didn't expect
to sell.
you more or less answerd your own question.
> Jeez, than I guess the 14 million SOLD for Ray Of Light is really amazing.
yes.
hippocrocamoose
> >hang on you're saying speculation is more acurate than looking at the
actual
> >figures of shipped records ?
>
> No I said nothing about speculation. I said SOUNDSCAN is the most accurate
> system we have (which is why everyone uses it).
soundscan is only for the USA - and not every retailer reports to them.
> >they ship out enough to cover their expected figures (yes there is alot
of
>
> As I said, they can say "Oh we think this is going 2 be huge, lets ship 5
> million copies" & if nobody buyz it therez 5 million copiez out there
sitting
> on the shelvez. So, shipped has nothing 2 do with it
(that is a very self serving argument)
they have predicted sales (do you know anything about running a business!?)
that is how they calculate how many units to ship.
IF they decide to ship 5 million then obviously they expect it to sell 5
million, if it doesn't sell they recoup their loss from the artists
royalties.
The ONLY way to get a good idea of how many albums have been sold is to look
at how many have been shipped (record stores also would not request an amout
they couldn't sell)
soundscan only works for the USA, and will give a number which is slightly
less than the actual amount.
the number shipped comes from the demand of retailers who ask for an amount
which they expect to sell.
Lewis
announced that to him and then fans always chanted that outside hotels
etc....
"hippocrocamoose" <Ric...@townsley7.freeserve.co.ukfake> wrote in message
news:ap1ss4$t7b$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "Lewis" <le...@mk2603.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ap1r68$rfn$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > When did Michael Jackson donn himself the King of Pop?????? Can we have
> the
> > year, and the eveent at which this happened please "kyle" ???????
>
> it stated when he asked MTV to refer to him as the "king of pop"....... it
> stuck :-)
>
>
hippocrocamoose
the
> year, and the eveent at which this happened please "kyle" ???????
it stated when he asked MTV to refer to him as the "king of pop"....... it
stuck :-)
Justin Pugh
sales...
The album also sold 140,000 copies in Austrailia by the end of November...
"hippocrocamoose" <Ric...@townsley7.freeserve.co.ukfake> wrote in message
news:ap1pvs$rqh$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Justin Pugh
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021124832...@mb-mh.aol.com...
> >there are people who buy from independant stores, these sales do not even
> >count towards the charts let alone <sales figures.
>
> That's not true. Many independent stores have signed up for it in order
to get
> a deal with labels to get discounts for mass orders
Justin Pugh
You show me where you are getting your sources!
1.38 million??
You will say soundscan, but show me your proof!
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021145634...@mb-cf.aol.com...
Justin Pugh
all Music Mega Stars that we are the only country in the world...
There is a much larger world out there!
"hippocrocamoose" <Ric...@townsley7.freeserve.co.ukfake> wrote in message
news:ap1dhh$gp7$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Justin Pugh
And the fact is that... the number would be to speculative to even give a
rumored amount...
I say from Michael's first solo ventures those albums have added about 5-7
million copies to his units sold. (career wise)
But its way to unsure to say!
"Jamison Leggett" <leg...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:7204-3DB...@storefull-2135.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Church Of MJ, I'm a huge fan of Michael too,but you're scaring me.
>
> Justin, what about Michael's first four solo albums(1971-1975) and the
> Motown ripoffs?You started with Off The Wall's sales.
>
Justin Pugh
tickets....
"Nat" <BettyBo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1fke21k.1mx6ocj19olrmeN%BettyBo...@hotmail.com...
> Justin Pugh <jp...@knology.net> wrote:
>
> > Michael Jackson has'nt toured in 5 years and still has sold more tickets
> > than Madonna, I hate to say!
>
> ?????
Justin Pugh
Bad sold 4.4 million tickets
Dangerous sold 3.5 million tickets
History sold 4.5 million tickets
Thats over 12.4 million tickets sold!
Over 7 million... i understated by almost 6 million tickets...
"Tattoo Vampire" <t...@tattoovampire.netcomorgbiz> wrote in message
news:71e11b4578...@tattoovampire.net...
> Justin Pugh wrote:
>
> > Michael Jackson has'nt toured in 5 years and still has sold more tickets
> > than Madonna, I hate to say!
>
> You, of course, have figures to back up your claim regarding MJ/Madonna
> ticket sakes? Thought not.
> --
> [tv]
>
> You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You will learn a lot today.
> 10/21/2002 11:01 AM
> Remove "comorgbiz" when emailing
Justin Pugh
Thats all good...
Who has more #1 Hits? And who has more #1 albums?? Even though he released
less compilations??
Sold more Records??
I doubt that...
A normal equation would say that if she released 14 album compilations then
out of that 14 on avergage at least 5 of them sold over 10 million copies
which means most of them ship at least 5-10 million copies on average...
14x10= 140 (million) then if you substract the shipped amount thats still
left on shelves today... you have to take at least 1-2 million away, but to
be fair I'll take away 1 million this time... 126 million copies... OH MY
GOODNESS, thats one million albums less than what I predicted in my first
article!! (What a coikidink!)
So to think of it, if you took Michael Jackson's figures right out the
box...
OTF - 15 million
Thriller - 51 million
Bad - 28 million
Dangerous - 27 million
History - 15 million
BOTDF - 4 million
Invincible - 7 million ( to satistfy the normal hater)
You get 147 million units sold... now only to be fair Im going to subtract 1
million units from each album this time...
Total 140 million.... who comes out on top?
Michael Jackson... just because Madonna has released more compilations,
doesnt mean she has sold more than he has!
More chart time??
Well if you say so...
But I do believe Michael Jackson spent the longest time at #1 than any other
pop artist with Thriller...
Thriller also had 7 top ten hits... that stayed an average of 5 weeks
Bad had 5 #1 hits... with an average of 5 weeks for each at #1
ect... you get my point, maybe Madonna might have more chart time... but
once again.. who has more #1 hits?? And albums??
Good or Bad... Michael Jackson has had more photos taken of him than Queen
Madonna would ever imagine...
Michael has also had more nasty or good articles written about him!
More people come to her tour??
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Lets see here...
Michael since the Bad tour has sold about 7-12 million tickets... on average
each stadium took about 1 hour to sell out... well... you can say that but
your wrong!
More people visit her websites??
Where are your numbers...??
I can tell you...
MJIMM.com has more hits than AbsoluteMadonna.com
In fact as of October 12, 2002 (MJIMM 1st Birthday) we have gotten 66
million hits from over 92 countries...
We are in fact of the fastest growing Michael Jackson websites EVER!
In one year MJIFC didnt come near... that kind of success!
Oh Please
Call a hit what you want to call it...
as Quincy Jones says " a hit is a hit!"
Substaniual my ass!
If it cracked top ten of any chart without a video or any promo besides
radio its a hit!
If it went #1 its a hit!
Michael has currently had 13 No. 1 hits... with 30 top ten hits... 25 top 5
hits... Madonna may have more... but Michael has 13 No. Hits...
And what was Madonna's last great hit??
"Take a bow" which I love!
>
>
> > Well lets see, Madonna sells more records,
>
> thats in dispute.
>
> >has more hits,
>
> ok
>
> > more chart time,
>
> how long was thriller and bad on the charts time
>
> >more
> > pictures taken of her,
>
> i doubt that
>
> >more articles written about her,
>
> again.
>
> >more people come 2 her
> > tours (in a quicker amount of time),
>
> nope, i doubt that.
>
> more people visit her website,
>
> you have the numbers ?
>
> >yet you
> > think a guy who's last substantial hit was a decade ago is bigger?
>
> what do you mean "substantial" ?
> blood on the dace floor, ghosts/history, and you rock my world, were all
> hits.
>
> what would you consider madonnas last substantial hit ?
>
>
John Smith
they buy things as one of the biggest factors in the buying decision. Like
they won't buy ugly clothes, because they don't want to be ridiculed, they
won't buy anything with Simpson on it, because they feel a social
responsibility to not support someone unethical. The same probably applies
to mj, because of false knowledge about him.
btw, Walmart has mj cds for $22. Outrageous.
John Smith
> >i suggest you check your sources
> >
>
> Now Sony lies too??
I'm not contributing to the specific argument, but yes, I'm sure they lie.
John Smith
> system we have (which is why everyone uses it).
Personally, I'd rather see worldwide certs rule all, and then just subtract
certifications as unsold units are returned. Then we can assuming all units
are actually sold to music lovers... and sold to the owner of the store who
is holding them.
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021145837...@mb-cf.aol.com...
John Smith
"hippocrocamoose" <Ric...@townsley7.freeserve.co.ukfake> wrote in message
news:ap1ss4$t7b$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Justin Pugh
======================================================================
Artists With The Most No. 1 Singles:
1. The Beatles (20)
2. Elvis Presley (18)
3. Michael Jackson (13)
4. The Supremes (12)
4. Mariah Carey (12)
6. Whitney Houston (11)
Madonna (11)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Artists With the Most Top 10 Singles:
1. Madonna (42)
2. Elvis Presley (38)
3. The Beatles (34)
4. Michael Jackson (30)
5. Steve Wonder (27)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Female Solo Artists with the Most Top 40 Singles:
1. Aretha Franklin (44)
2. Madonna (43)
2. Connie Francis (35)
4. Dionne Warwick (31)
5. Brenda Lee (29)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Artists with the Most Top 40 Singles:
1. Elvis Presley (114)
2. Elton John (56)
3. The Beatles (52)
4. Stevie Wonder (46)
5. Aretha Franklin (44)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Selling Albums by Female Solo Artists
1. Alanis Morisette / "Jagged Little Pill" (15 million)
2. Whitney Houston / "Whitney Houston" (12 million)
3. Carole King / "Tapestry" (10 million)
4. Madonna / "Like A Virgin" (9 million)
4. Whitney Houston / "Whitney" (9 million)
4. Mariah Carey / "Music Box" (9 million)
4. Mariah Carey / "Daydream" (9 million)
4. Shania Twain / "The Woman In Me" (9 million)
4. Celine Dion / "Falling Into You" (9 million)
NOTE: For the purposes of this list, "The Bodyguard" (sales of 16
million) is not included although its sales were driven primarily by the
five Whitney Houston cuts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Selling Albums
1. The Eagles / "Greatest Hits Vol. 1" (27 million)
1. Michael Jackson / "Thriller" (26 million)
3. Fleetwood Mac / "Rumours" (17 million)
4. Led Zepplin IV (16 million)
4. "The Bodyguard" Original Motion Picture Soundtrack (16 million)
4. Boston / Boston (16 million)
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021130627...@mb-mh.aol.com...
> >>more
> >> pictures taken of her,
> >
> >i doubt that
>
> Um, if you saw the list, last year alone, Madonna was the ONLY music
artist in
> the top 8. & the first female on the list.
>
> It's been just about the same for the last 20 years, although she was in
> competition with Princess Di for a few years.
>
> >>more articles written about her,
> >
> >again.
>
> See above. Although article wise she was the first musical artist (again),
but
> the next one was Britney & *N Sync, followed by Eminem. Once again,
political
> people, terrorism & Tiger Woods were in the Top 5 last year.
>
> >>more people come 2 her
> >> tours (in a quicker amount of time),
> >nope, i doubt that.
>
> Um, she sold out every date in 24 minutes. a record. We're talking about
25,000
> seater arenas a night, with multiple shows in each city.
>
>
> >more people visit her website,
> >
> >you have the numbers ?
>
> Yes it was all over the news the day her official website launched over
the
> summer. It's the most amount of hits to ANY website in one day with 4
million
> in its first day. E-Bay was the next closest. To give some perspective,
about
> 350,000 people visited Mariah Carey's website LAST YEAR (all year) &
Madonna
> had 4 million in one day.
>
> >what do you mean "substantial" ?
> >blood on the dace floor, ghosts/history, and you rock my world, were all
> >hits.
>
> Not in the US. YRMW came and went very quickly here in the states. BOTDF,
> Ghosts weren't hits @ all here.
>
> >what would you consider madonnas last >substantial hit ?
>
> Besides the current Die Another Day which is #24 in its second week with a
> bullet, and it being the #1 most added song to radio in its first 3 days,
all
> on airplay alone.
>
> If we're not talking about that, we could go back to her last release
before
> that, What It Feels Like For A Girl, which hit #23, sold a million copies,
was
> a #1 dance record and stayed in the Hot 100 for over 2 months.
>
> We could even go to the release before that, Don't Tell Me, which hit #4,
> stayed in the top 10 for a month, stayed on the charts for 3 months and
sold a
> million copies & hit #1 on the dance charts. The video was a huge huge
hit,
> being the 6th most played video on MTV that year.
>
> The 3rd most played video that year? Madonna's Music, which hit #1 on the
> charts (in 28 countries), sold 2 million copies, hit #1 in dance, and
stayed on
> the charts for 3 months.
>
> We could continue going back, because all of the singles from Ray Of Light
were
> very succesful as well (save Nothing Really Matters, which charted, but
was her
> lowest charting single), though the video got a lot of airplay.
>
>
Justin Pugh
Can you make up anything else??
Michael Jackson sold 35,000 tickets for MSG in 5 hours... sold out!
Now you mean to tell me that an entire US Tour sold out in 24 minutes??
Thats just over 500,000 tickets!
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021145935...@mb-cf.aol.com...
Justin Pugh
HE NEVER CALLED HIMSELF THE KING OF POP...
HAVE YOU ONCE EVER REFER TO HIMSELF HAS THE KING OF POP?
"kyle." <ci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021021125032...@mb-mh.aol.com...
> >Maybe they're both equal which
> >is why they are labelled the king and queen of pop!!!!
>
> True, but MJ donned himself KOP, Madonna didn't.
>
> Madge is still putting out huge #1 hits & huge records, MJ isn't
Justin Pugh
albums...
But it dont work that way.. .because if that was the case... History would
be the 2nd Biggest Selling Album of all time after Thriller!
"DealahZ" <mber...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1035221724.781149@cache2...
> I think history has sold more than 15 mil
>
>
Tattoo Vampire
> In fact I do...
> Bad sold 4.4 million tickets
> Dangerous sold 3.5 million tickets
> History sold 4.5 million tickets
> Thats over 12.4 million tickets sold!
> Over 7 million... i understated by almost 6 million tickets...
Give me a URL or other source. Otherwise I'll be inclined to believe you're
making numbers up as you go along. :-P
--
[tv]
He who hesitates waits for five more cars.
10/21/2002 12:46 PM
Remove "comorgbiz" when emailing
Justin Pugh
http://www.allmichaeljackson.com/tours.html
You can figure how credible you want it to be!
"Tattoo Vampire" <t...@tattoovampire.netcomorgbiz> wrote in message
news:38febdddfa...@tattoovampire.net...
Justin Pugh
ANYONE COULD HAVE CALLED MTV...
IT WAS RUMORED!!
"hippocrocamoose" <Ric...@townsley7.freeserve.co.ukfake> wrote in message
news:ap1ss4$t7b$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Nat
I saw somewhere that Jagged Little Pill with over 20 million, and The
Woman in Me higher than these figures. I would think that Tapestry
sold a lot more than 10 million.
Nat
> Personally, I'd rather see worldwide certs rule all, and then just subtract
> certifications as unsold units are returned.
Me too. What a stupid system there is[n't] for counting sales.
Nat
> btw, Walmart has mj cds for $22. Outrageous.
Variety stores are ridiculous. Pamida wanted $18 USD, the suggested
retail price. I can't believe people would actually buy music or dvds
from them.
Nat
> sony as far as MJ is concerned, plus all the usuall (rolling stone, Q, etc)
>
> > There isn't one
> > because there is no way there were more than 10 million shipped.
Sorry, Sony never said that. Where did Rolling Stone say that?
>
> ok listen and absorb what i'm telling you
> going by what u're saying:
> 10 million albums
> 4 million for the USA
> 2 million for the UK
>
> that leaves 4 million albums to be distributed to the rest of the world -
> asia, australia, europe, etc. not enough to go round
They did not ship 3 million in the usa. It was certified for 2 million,
based on a first run and there hasn't been a second.
Absorb, LOL. Some people are a little pompous for having bogus
information.
> >It's a
> > business, you know?
>
> exactly !!
> you cant sell an album if theres none in stock.
Yes dear, that's why they haven't burned any more. They are not
selling. They have plenty. If they were selling, a second pressing
would be made.
Nat
> I always thought that it was way back in 1988 when Elizabeth Taylor
> announced that to him and then fans always chanted that outside hotels
> etc....
Per Rolling Stone, he demanded MTV introduce him as the KOP.
Nat
> HAVE YOU ONCE EVER REFER TO HIMSELF HAS THE KING OF POP?
Justin,
Every time he pops out of a sign that reads King of Pop, he is calling
himself that.
hippocrocamoose
news:qA%s9.580481$f05.24...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> Speaking of sales, I read that people consider social status/respect when
> they buy things as one of the biggest factors in the buying decision. Like
> they won't buy ugly clothes, because they don't want to be ridiculed, they
> won't buy anything with Simpson on it, because they feel a social
> responsibility to not support someone unethical. The same probably applies
> to mj, because of false knowledge about him.
i agree to a point. i wouldn't walk around (outside my property) in a MJ
t-shirt, unless it was at a concert, but then i wouldn't walk round in a
t-shirt with any "star" on because it's tacky.
i don't think people pay so much attention when it comes to music, unless
you happen to be a 15 year old out with your m8's
hippocrocamoose
"Justin Pugh" <jp...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:ur92mof...@corp.supernews.com...
> IT WAS A RUMOR THAT HE DEEMED HIMSELF KING OF POP
> HE NEVER CALLED HIMSELF THE KING OF POP...
i'm pretty sure someone at mtv said it was michaels idea
> HAVE YOU ONCE EVER REFER TO HIMSELF HAS THE KING OF POP?
no, but then HE wouldn't.
he's never said that he was uncomfortable with the title
hippocrocamoose
"Justin Pugh" <jp...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:ur928oc...@corp.supernews.com...
Tattoo Vampire
> You can figure how credible you want it to be!
Since it's a fan site, I won't give it much credibility, if any at all.
Tattoo Vampire
> Per Rolling Stone, he demanded MTV introduce him as the KOP.
Rolling Stone lies. They're in cahoots with the others in the media who are
out to get MJ. Remember? ;-)