Painter
BiTtErGrEeN
This a difficult post...one I've been struggling with, and debating
whether or not to post.
I just picked up "Painter" and have listened to it straight through two
times. The songs...which most of us have heard...are wonderful and the
musicianship is first rate.
BUT Gord's voice is COMPLETELY shot...it is a very emotional and
painful at times album to listen to because of this. One must wonder how
much the throat cancer had to do with this, and the mix doesn't seem to
help too much as his voice is mixed more prominently than usual. As I
said this is a hard message to post and I feel very sad doing
it....because I know all the anticipation we've had of this release. I
will be looking forward to other reactions from people who've heard the
album.
PLEASE don't flame me....no one loves Gord and his music more than
I...there is NOTHING meant to be malicious here.
paulmc...@hotmail.com
did i miss something? when was Gord diagnosed with throat cancer? of course
one would expect after 40 or so years of singing your heart out that your
vocal chords would get worn, so that is not suprising. but can someone please
clear up this throat cancer subject for me?
In article <354F3652...@mindless.com>#1/1,
BiTtErGrEeN <inner...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
>
> BUT Gord's voice is COMPLETELY shot...it is a very emotional and
> painful at times album to listen to because of this. One must wonder how
> much the throat cancer had to do with this, and the mix doesn't seem to
> help too much as his voice is mixed more prominently than usual.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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ADingwall
The so called throat cancer is, I believe, nothing more than an unsubstantiated
rumour. I don't think Gord has been out of commission , either from touring or
recording, long enough in the last few years to get treatment and therefore I
doubt there has ever been any throat cancer.
As for the voice, it has been getting rougher with the passing of time. It
shows up on recordings (compare Summertime Dream with Waiting for You) and it
shows up in person (no longer hitting all the high notes, note especially the
rearrangement of Beautiful). Unless it's radically rougher than what it has
been in concert this year and last I don't think it will be a problem.
I must say however, that everytime I listen to a new GL CD for the first time I
think the same thing about his voice.
WGJ
>PLEASE don't flame me....no one loves Gord and his music more than
>I...there is NOTHING meant to be malicious here.
I may be proven wrong in the next 24 hours, but one of the reasons I read this
newsgroup regularly is that the regular members here do not get into flame wars
- , we even got through the "least favorite Gord song thread" without major
bloodshed.
>One must wonder how
>much the throat cancer had to do with this,
We may not flame, but we do correct - my recollection is that the throat cancer
rumor was just that - a rumor (Wayne or the others can correct me here). If
GL's voice has deteriorated, I guess we can chalk it up to age and other
abuses.
For my part, I'll reserve judgment on PPT until I've listened to it for a few
weeks (and I won't even get it until next Tuesday when FedEx makes its
delivery), and after I've listened to some of the new songs live next Friday
in New London. I've been a fan since the early 70's, and I can say that almost
without exception I disliked every new album until I listened to it for a few
months (and I disliked Shadows for years until this group set me straight).
Give it a while longer - one thing about GL's work - it stands the test of time
(at least for me).
Garth
BiTtErGrEeN
ADingwall wrote:
> The so called throat cancer is, I believe, nothing more than an unsubstantiated
> rumour. I don't think Gord has been out of commission , either from touring or
> recording, long enough in the last few years to get treatment and therefore I
> doubt there has ever been any throat cancer.
>
> As for the voice, it has been getting rougher with the passing of time. It
> shows up on recordings (compare Summertime Dream with Waiting for You) and it
> shows up in person (no longer hitting all the high notes, note especially the
> rearrangement of Beautiful). Unless it's radically rougher than what it has
> been in concert this year and last I don't think it will be a problem.
>
Yes they are unsubstantiated, however I had it from a very reliable source that
Gord had nodes on his vocal chords...one which proved to be malignant or pre
malignant. Be that as it may. This is not a case of"not hitting the high
notes"...this is a SHOCKING and RADICAL change. Anyone who's seen his rendition of
"Drifters" on the Gzowski special will know what the album sounds like. After
corresponding with some of the regulars here...they've encouraged me to say more.
It is a heart rending experience listening to him croak through these songs...that
is not an overstatement. It may explain Reprise's reticence to release the
album...they must really have had to do some soul searching regarding the
suitability of releasing it in it's present form...again this is not an
overstatement.
But the songs are truly wonderful...the arrangements tight...in this regard they
still have the "Lightfoot Magic"...I only wish I'd had prior warning before I
listened......
zaxzmom
I know what you mean about listening to an album several times before
you know whether you really like it or not. That's true for me no
matter whose album it is. The only one I remember absolutely loving on
first hear was Salute. And still do! Judi
jason....@valpo.edu
> Yes they are unsubstantiated, however I had it from a very reliable
source that
> Gord had nodes on his vocal chords...one which proved to be malignant or pre
> malignant.
Just as an aside, I talked to my girlfriend who is an SLP, and she informs me
that vocal noduals (sp?) are quite a common occurrence with performance
artists, and are commonly cured with extended vocal rest (if they are not
severe) and can be treated if they are. Given Gord's extended career dating
back some 40 years and the rigors which he has put his vocal cords through,
including smoking and drinking (which would dehydrate him and potentially put
extra stress on his vocal cords during performances) I wouldn't be surprised
if the decline in his voice, such as it is, isn't owing more to the passage
of time than it is to any specific medical condition.
>"...this is a SHOCKING and RADICAL change. Anyone who's seen his rendition of
> "Drifters" on the Gzowski special will know what the album sounds like.
After
> corresponding with some of the regulars here...they've encouraged me to say
more.
> It is a heart rending experience listening to him croak through these
songs...that
> is not an overstatement. It may explain Reprise's reticence to release the
> album...they must really have had to do some soul searching regarding the
> suitability of releasing it in it's present form...again this is not an
> overstatement.
> But the songs are truly wonderful...the arrangements tight...in this
regard they
> still have the "Lightfoot Magic"...I only wish I'd had prior warning before
I
> listened......
>
I haven't heard the new album yet, but I did see Gord perform Painter and
Ring Neck Loon last year in concert. I would regretably have to agree that
his voice is not what it once was. The decline in Gord's voice is progressive
-- even the '85 Gords Gold II album shows a significant change in his voice
from earlier recordings of the same songs (e.g. Race Among the Ruins, Not
Supposed to Care, and especially Wreck). That being said, however, I'm not
sure that it will interfer with my enjoyment of the new album. Gords voice
has only been one of the components of his musical genious which I have
appreciated throughout the years. His lyrical poignance and sincerity,
coupled with his unique style and refined musical understanding has always
hooked me at least as much as his distinctive voice. Regardless of any
decline in his voice, I'm not sure I'll listen to the new album with any
degree of sadness. As was noted in the Toronto Star article (I think), Gord
has always been a foreward looking person, never dwelling on the past but
rather accepting what is and looking up towards the future. As an admirer,
I'd like to do the same. Change is the only true constant in life, and that
is something which is reflected well in all of Gord's music. Que cera
cera.
Besides, if Gord's voice declines and becomes difficult to listen to, the
lyrical genious will remain -- which only means we'll understand even better
the trials and tribulations that Bob Dylan's fans have endured lo these many
years. :-)
Oksky
>After corresponding with some of the regulars here...they've encouraged me to
say more.
I don't know who you are calling "regulars" but I find it hard to believe that
any of the newsgroupers that I would call regulars would encourage you to post
this sort of thing.
I heard Gord sing some of these songs live at Massey in November 1996. I
don't think his voice has changed that much since then and he sounded great to
me!
Shirley
Epiphone
Perhaps a used CD store is an option for easing your pain. If you chose to
go this route, let us know which one you re-sell PPT to.
Gord's voice certainly isn't what it was when he was in his prime. Hey the
guy is almost 60. Whether he has throat cancer or not, you can't expect that
he sound as he did in his 30's and 40's. Regardless, this album is
reflective of where the man is today, and I am pleased to have it. If this
is the last, I think that it is a nice way to end his recording career. I
hope that it is not. I think that the album is an honest great effort, and
is certainly one aimed at his fans, not top 40 radio.
BiTtErGrEeN
> I don't know who you are calling "regulars" but I find it hard to believe that
> any of the newsgroupers that I would call regulars would encourage you to post
> this sort of thing.
Shirley... You clearly missed the point of my post. As I said I meant
NOTHING malicious...the songs...as usual...are meticulously produced and
wonderfully tuneful. However, there has been a huge and shocking change to his
voice....and I wish I had been warned beforehand. As for the "regulars"...well
you'd know them and to say "encourage you to post this sort of thing" makes it
sound like it's an attempt to besmirch Gord. It' is simply reporting the
truth...and his human failings...Gord himself has always laid his shortcomings out
for all to see. And is this not why so many are attracted to the man and his
music?
>
makizoo
bought has initially struck me as marginal at best. And then I find
myself humming one of the tunes in the shower. Gord's voice ain't what
it used to be, but that's life. I give the man credit for still
producing after all these years.
Cheesehead Wayne
BiTtErGrEeN
>
>
> I don't believe I even commented on the point of your post. I just feel
> appalled that I have read a post such as this one before I even received my
> copy of the CD.
>
> As for being forewarned, the change in Gord's voice has been discussed at great
> length on the newsgroup for months. And I didn't flame you.
>
>
> Appalled??? Wow...strong word....I guess NOTHING negative should be posted....I
> SINCERELY hope your sensitive sensibilities have not been offended...that you'll
> still be able to enjoy the album. You're right...perhaps all comments should have
> been held until YOU received your copy....I apologize. And I'm very aware of the
> voice discussions herein. However,you are not aware of the huge change contained
> on this album.
BiTtErGrEeN
Epiphone wrote:
> Perhaps a used CD store is an option for easing your pain. If you chose to
> go this route, let us know which one you re-sell PPT to.
Grow up. This is the attitude I expected on here. There is no one who loves
Gord's music
more than I.....IT IS NOT GOING TO A USED CD STORE. Until you've heard it.....
don't pass judgement.
Oksky
>You clearly missed the point of my post
I don't believe I even commented on the point of your post. I just feel
appalled that I have read a post such as this one before I even received my
copy of the CD.
As for being forewarned, the change in Gord's voice has been discussed at great
length on the newsgroup for months. And I didn't flame you.
Shirley
PIDdi15
I have not heard The Painter yet, it so I cannot comment on the condition of
his voice. I am glad that I have been warned that his voice has changed because
it would have been dissappointing for me to have bought the new CD and gone to
see him for the first time in concert and found that he was sounding much
different.
I do have a little problem with the choice of words used to describe his
current state though. I understand that you did not want to be malicious, so
why would you use a phrase like "listening to him croak through these songs"
???
Imagine if Gord heard that? That, in my opinion is VERY unkind. Your point was
very clear without the use of that phrase.
hw
I kinda like the version of "A Painter Passing Through" that he did on
the Gzowski show. It was much more magical, intimate and less
"produced". I'll take his concert versions of East of Midnight
album songs over the produced ones on the cd. Certain songs work
better that way in my opinion. I remember he used to come out on
stage and it was just him and his acoustic guitar on some of those
songs. It was magical. I've listened to the new cd twice now.
It makes a difference depending on the type of speakers I hear it on.
On one set of speakers that I have his voice doesn't come across well.
The speakers that made his voice more prominent is the sound that I
enjoy. Saw Gord on tv signing autographs at Sam The RecordMan. They
showed him with one young fan, no older than 12-14, who said that Gord
was her favourite and was someone who inspired her to play guitar.
Good to see that.
BiTtErGrEeN <inner...@mindless.com> wrote:
>This a difficult post...one I've been struggling with, and debating
>whether or not to post.
> I just picked up "Painter" and have listened to it straight through two
>times. The songs...which most of us have heard...are wonderful and the
>musicianship is first rate.
> BUT Gord's voice is COMPLETELY shot...it is a very emotional and
>painful at times album to listen to because of this. One must wonder how
>much the throat cancer had to do with this, and the mix doesn't seem to
>help too much as his voice is mixed more prominently than usual. As I
>said this is a hard message to post and I feel very sad doing
>it....because I know all the anticipation we've had of this release. I
>will be looking forward to other reactions from people who've heard the
>album.
ro...@sk.sympatico.ca
> BUT Gord's voice is COMPLETELY shot...it is a very emotional and
> painful at times album to listen to because of this. One must wonder how
> much the throat cancer had to do with this, and the mix doesn't seem to
> help too much as his voice is mixed more prominently than usual. As I
> said this is a hard message to post and I feel very sad doing
> it....because I know all the anticipation we've had of this release. I
> will be looking forward to other reactions from people who've heard the
> album.
Well, I just want to sit and bawl now -- I was so looking forward to getting
my hands on a copy of PPT, and now that joy has been tainted by reading this
post. I certainly didn't expect Gord's voice to be like it was 25 years ago
-- my most favourite GL albums are mid-70's (disclaimer: I LOVE them all, but
especially those!). He's aged like we all have. It makes a listener realize
how much Gord has lived life when we hear his voice and how it has changed
over the years. While he may not be able to reach those higher notes, it
certainly never would occur to me to think that his voice was "completely
shot". -- anyway, I was really disappointed to read the negative
comments. I don't see any constructive criticism there.
Now, before I get flamed, I realize this is a public forum for us to all air
our opinions, and certainly Bittergreen is entitled to his/her (sorry, don't
know which) own. I just wish it had been down the road a bit, not on the very
day of PPT's release. Rather, after we'd all had a chance to listen to PPT
several times through and formed our own opinions of its merit.
However, having said my little bit, I have a positive note to report here!
We're shorthanded at work and three of us went in tonight to try and get
caught up (hopeless, but at least it a small dent in the workload). Anyway,
I decided that if I was going in on my time off, I was darn well going to
listen to GL on the company radio/cd player -- cd player never gets used. So
I put in GG1 and cranked it, waited for the comments of my co-worker and one
boss that were there. Well, after a few songs, suddenly the stereo went
louder and my boss came out saying that she *loves* GL and we should play it
more often! How's that for cool?! I was impressed. Next time I'll have to
bring more than one cd, tho!
Terri R.
~~ and the song that you sing should not be too sad,
and be sure not to sing it too slow ~~
ds...@freewwweb.com
Just a personal opinion from this kid in Kansas City.
I have listened to sounds clips all night long from the Reprise website and I
think Gord sounds GREAT!!! I can't wait until I get my CD!!! The sooner the
better!!
Dave :-)
Jrichas
PAL,
YOU,VE APPARENTLY NOT HEARD A DANIEL LANOIS PRODUCED CD BEFORE!! TRY DYLAN'S
LATEST THAT WON THE BIG GRAMMY. OR EMMYLOU'S WRECKING BALL, OR NEIL YOUNG'S
LATEST. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE THE MAN IS ALMOST 60 AND HAS SUNG HIS BUTT OFF FOR
YEARS. I HAVE HEARD CD. AND LOVE IT AS "A PAINTER PASSING THROUGH" AND ADDING
TO HIS MASTERPIECE OF MUSIC. GIVE HIM AND YOURSELF SOME SLACK! DON'T KNOW HOW
OLD YOU ARE BUT I'M 57 AND FIRST SAW HIM AT THE RIVERBOAT CAFE IN TORONTO IN
1966, AND 30+ YEARS AND 30+ CONCERTS LATER, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING HIM
PAINT AT MASSEY THURS-SAT. DID YOU READ THE REVIEWS OFHIS CONCERTS AT WINDSOR
LAST WEEK. GORD CAN STILL SMELL THE FLOWERS STANDING UP, MY FRIEND.
LET LANOIS BRING HIS VOICE UP!! ENJOY THIS GENIUS AT HIS CRAFT WHILE YOU CAN.
JERRE HASKEW
Jri...@aol.com
Sundreme
I understand that you didn't mean anything malicious when you wrote what you
did, and I also believe that this is a free country and we are all entitled to
write or say whatever we darn please, but that doesn't mean that I don't get
upset by things that people say and your post did upset me indeed. What bothers
me is that you didn't give us American fans a chance to get the album and
decide for ourselves whether or not we liked Gord's voice on the new album. I
know that someone might say "Oh that's ridiculous, nobody is stopping you from
making up your own mind." And indeed I WILL buy the album and decide for
myself if I like it or not. However, now instead of looking foward to the album
like before, there will be a feeling of saddness and forboding until I can go
to the record store and hear it for myself. I feel ambushed. I know that you
say you wish someone had warned you before hand about the quality of Gord's
voice and perhaps you thought that you were doing us a favor by telling us how
bad his voice sounded, but in my opinion I would have liked to have been able
to buy the album without having someone put such a depressing seed of doubt in
my mind. Really now, we are all aware of the changes that Gord's voice has gone
through. So I don't think any of us expect him to sound the way he did on Don
Quixote and we all accept that. As I said, this is America and I don't believe
in telling someone "Hey dont say that." But at the same time, I cannot help
but feel dismayed and disappointed. I just wish that you had waited and saved
the post till next week when we all had the album . That way we could have all
been on equal ground and been able to have a debate/discussion on whether we
agreed with that opinion.
Erica
BiTtErGrEeN
Jrichas wrote:
Thanks for yelling....Lanois did not produce the CD , he merely plays on two
tracks. And thank God for that...there's no overproduction. As for my age, I've
been a fan since '67 when Gord was on TV and my mom mentioned they'd grown up
together.
Epiphone
BiTtErGrEeN wrote:
Grow up. This is the attitude I expected on here.
There is a personal attack, not only to myself, but the newsgroup. I'd like to
suggest that your posts are consistently negative. You go only under the cloak of
a pseudonym, which I suppose protects you from. This is a response to your attack.
Who should grow up.
My original post was directed at the following comments which you wrote...
" Gord's voice is COMPLETELY shot...it is a very emotional and
painful at times album to listen to because of this. ...the mix doesn't seem to
help too much as his voice is mixed more prominently than usual."
In another post you wrote....
"It is a heart rending experience listening to him croak through these
songs...that
is not an overstatement. It may explain Reprise's reticence to release the
album...they must really have had to do some soul searching regarding the
suitability of releasing it in it's present form...again this is not an
overstatement."
I was under the impression that you disliked the album. I apologize if I read you
wrong.
I thought my suggestion that you could re-coup your money was a good one
.
BiTtErGrEeN
> There is a personal attack, not only to myself, but the newsgroup. I'd like to
> suggest that your posts are consistently negative. You go only under the cloak of
> a pseudonym, which I suppose protects you from. This is a response to your attack.
> Who should grow up.
>
This is not a "personal attack" just a reaction to having seen the kneejerk
responses whichoccasionally happen to any negative opinions expressed in this
Newsgroup. The idea of A.L.M.
should be a disemination of ALL viewpoints. My response to "grow up" stemmed from an
immature comment you made regarding selling "Painter".
> I was under the impression that you disliked the album. I apologize if I read you
> wrong.
> I thought my suggestion that you could re-coup your money was a good one
> .
You read me wrong....it is a very strong and wonderful album. I MERELY commented,
perhaps a touch too vehemently on the state of his vocals. I may also state that his
voice was in WONDERFUL shape at the Orillia show last October. In particular "Red
Velvet" on the new album is quite harrowing to listen to. And the comment re the
suitability for release..well I think I can understand why the album was delayed so
long. When you hear it at home, perhaps you'll agree.
Larry
Jim Wehner
Nobody has mentioned if the "quality" (for lack of a better word) of
Gord's voice has deteriorated since "Waiting For You."
On WFY, I noticed the most dramatic change in his voice from his earlier
recordings. Of course, I still enjoy that album. So, unless there has
been a big change since then, I'm sure that APPT will be great, too.
Jim W.
gho...@daas.dla.mil
"I've
> been a fan since '67 when Gord was on TV and my mom mentioned they'd grown
up
> together."
>
Gary H
rgo...@tc3net.com
> .... Gord's voice is COMPLETELY shot..
the mix doesn't seem to help too much as his voice is mixed more prominently
than usual.
I can't speak on how GL sounds on the Painter CD, because I CAN'T GET IT
UNTIL NEXT WEEK (sorry for shouting). but I can attest to the fact that I
heard nothing resembling "croaking" when I heard him in Windsor last week.
Perhaps my hearing is shot, or I am in denial, but live he sounded better
during the 4/29 concert than he did during the last two I've attended. My
wife, who has only tolerated my fanaticism over the past 20 years, made a
similar, unsolicited comment following the concert.
Like many others have previously expressed, it usually took me listening to
his new CDs/albums(and maybe an eight track tape), three or four before I
started to enjoy any of them. This has not held true in this case. PPT,
Drifters and Country Singer took immediate hold. My eight year old keeps
asking me when she can hear the "Patsy Cline" song. Even "Ring Neck Loon"
which I didn't like when I first heard it in Ann Arbor last year, caught on
once he explained the thoughts behind it.
Even if the CD production was completely screwed up, I am confident that I
will be driving my co-workers crazy with PPT for months to come.
No flame intended, just a flicker of my thoughts.
Rick G.
BiTtErGrEeN
> >
> Pal, my question is "When are you going to?"
>
> Gary H
>
A wonderful and well thought out reply Gary. Apparenlty there should be NO
negative opinionsexpressed in this newsgroup. And with a scathing reply like
yours Gary, I shall endeavour to
do better in the future. Consider me suitably dressed down.
You know in my original post I metioned flaming..deep down I KNEW colletively
that this group
would not be able to handle it, it's a shame really, when a person such as Gary
would equate
"growing up" with not being able to freely express ideas.
Telekidd
Greetings all! Well, I did manage to somehow listen to the .au files on the
Reprise web site (downloading those things was, for me, a pretty major
accomplishment!).
I haven't posted anything concerning "Painter" up to now, for the fairly
logical reason that I haven't heard it yet! But I did listen to the .au files,
paying particular attention to GL's voice. While I grant that listening to
snippets on my computer hardly constitutes a careful listen to the album, my
reaction to the vocals is quite similar to my reaction to the vocals on Waiting
For You. To me, whatever his voice may have lost in timbre and/or richness, I
think it has gained in emotional expressiveness. Anyway, just a thought--I'm
sure I'll post more--as I hope everyone around here does--once I actually hear
the CD!
Since the newsgroup was referred to "collectively" as not being able to deal
with anything negative, I may as well chime in and say I've never had, and
don't have, a problem with negative opinions--people are certainly entitled to
think--and say--what they want (within reason, of course!). I've expressed
negative opinions around here from time to time, and have never been "flamed"
for it. I do take a lot of care in expressing my thoughts (yeah, yeah--I know
you're all stunned!). Before I send anything out, I just step back and read it
over, trying to take the role of a third party, to get an idea of how what I've
written might be perceived--even with my more (allegedly) humorous posts.
Let's face it--we're all fans, otherwise we wouldn't be here! :)
Derek
Ron Miller
On Tue, 05 May 1998 11:54:59 -0400, BiTtErGrEeN
<inner...@mindless.com> wrote:
>This a difficult post...one I've been struggling with, and debating
>whether or not to post.
> I just picked up "Painter" and have listened to it straight through two
>times. The songs...which most of us have heard...are wonderful and the
>musicianship is first rate.
> BUT Gord's voice is COMPLETELY shot...it is a very emotional and
>painful at times album to listen to because of this.
<snip>
I don't think that Bittergreen was trying to be malicious in his
statements, and is certainly entitled to his own opinion, but I think
he missed the mark on this one. There is no doubt that Gords lost the
range that he once enjoyed..............but................
I just got back from a trip to Windsor and currently am listening to
A Painter Passing Through. Anyone who has heard Gord in concert in the
last few years will already know how Gords voice sounds...there won't
be any surprises. I myself find he sounds a little better on the CD,
than he did in concert. I think this CD has a much warmer feel to it
than did Waiting for You. I always felt WFY , at least the vocal
track, had a somewhat harsh sound to it. I think that overall the
majority of you will be extremely pleased with the production....I
know I am.
Ron
Moonshadow
well that's a tough one to hear, and also a tough one to believe, i might
add, considering the recent reports about his voice from the Windsor
concert. it's probably unfair to say his voice is shot, although i haven't
heard the album. maybe the album just wasn't done as well as it should have
been, which is also hard to believe considering the quality of Gord's
albums. it's just strange to hear a report from a live concert just a while
ago saying his voice was relaxed and wonderful and then hear a report that
his voice is shot. i guess i'll see for myself this weekend when i head up
to Toronto. i'll be picking up the album on Friday and seeing him live
Saturday night.
Travis
BiTtErGrEeN wrote:
> This a difficult post...one I've been struggling with, and debating
> whether or not to post.
> I just picked up "Painter" and have listened to it straight through two
> times. The songs...which most of us have heard...are wonderful and the
> musicianship is first rate.
> BUT Gord's voice is COMPLETELY shot...it is a very emotional and
> painful at times album to listen to because of this. One must wonder how
> much the throat cancer had to do with this, and the mix doesn't seem to
> help too much as his voice is mixed more prominently than usual. As I
> said this is a hard message to post and I feel very sad doing
> it....because I know all the anticipation we've had of this release. I
> will be looking forward to other reactions from people who've heard the
> album.
Tony Meloche
jason....@valpo.edu wrote:
> Besides, if Gord's voice declines and becomes difficult to listen to, the
> lyrical genious will remain -- which only means we'll understand even better
> the trials and tribulations that Bob Dylan's fans have endured lo these many
> years. :-)
Now THIS is the most sensible post I've read today! In about
fifteen years, it's predictable that Gord's voice will have reached the
point Dylan's voice *started* at! As Einstein said: "It's all
relative". Dylan is an undisputed genius, but his voice, from Day 1,
has made my flesh crawl.
Tony Meloche
Remove the "z",(if present) from e-mail address to respond.
Jim Wehner
Telekidd (tele...@aol.com) wrote:
> Greetings all! Well, I did manage to somehow listen to the .au files on the
> Reprise web site (downloading those things was, for me, a pretty major
> accomplishment!).
I also listened to the snippets of Gord's new songs, and they boosted my
enthusiasm over the new album. After bittergreen's initial post, which
indicated that Gord's voice is "completely shot," I was debating on
whether or not I should rush out to pick up the new disc on it's release
date (GL and the Moody Blues are the only artists I'd do that for). But,
after listening to the .au files, I'll definitely be at the store on
Tuesday. They sounded great to me.
However, I'm curious about bittergreen's comments. Are the .au files
representative of the way Gord sounds throughout the album or are there
actually parts where he does "croak"? To me, he sounds as good, if not
better than he did on WFY. Mr. or Ms. Bitter...do you think his voice
sounds "shot" on WFY? I have no problem with you voicing your opinion.
Jim W.
zaxzmom
Thanks for saying what you did, Shirley. I felt very bad reading what I
did before even having my own copy to listen to. Maybe it wasn't
mean-spirited, but it sure was inconsiderate. Judi
ADingwall
I too have listened to the downlaoded au files, much like Derek's it was quite
a feat. Yeas folks the voice ain't what it used to be, but it is just like we
have heard in concert over the last 8 years or so. And it's still better than
the Zim-man's (Dylan).
I can't wait to get the CD next Tuesday, my wife and I are driving from Battle
Creek, MI to Santa Fe late next week so there will be plenty of time to listen
in the Jeep.
occupant
Even after Gord reaches the level of the "Zim-man" <I like that...>
he still will have a ways to drop before landing near Leonard Cohen!
Sue
nichols
I can't for the life of me understand (and believe me I have tried over
the last few days) why a man's expression of his opinion over Gord's new
CD should be seen as "inconsiderate". I admit that "Bittergreen" was
perhaps a bit emotional in his original posting (probably because he was
responding immediately after first listening to the CD) but I feel that
I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions when I purchase the CD
and I can certainly freely allow others to express theirs, however
negative they may be.
Fortunately, there have been some very worthwhile postings on this list
lately (about the CD and about Gord's past) which I have greatly
appreciated, but personally, the occasional blind, hero-worship is a
real turn-off -- and I suspect it would be to Gord as well since he
probably has a fairly clear idea of what his own shortcomings are as an
artist and as a human being and might appreciate honest critical
discussion of his work rather than just enthusiastic gushing (??)
Just a thought....
Oksky
>I can't for the life of me understand (and believe me I have tried over
>the last few days) why a man's expression of his opinion over Gord's new
>CD should be seen as "inconsiderate
And I can't for the life of me understand why my response to what was said
should cause you such concern.
Shirley
BiTtErGrEeN
> the last few days) why a man's expression of his opinion over Gord's new
> perhaps a bit emotional in his original posting (probably because he was
> responding immediately after first listening to the CD) but I feel that
> I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions when I purchase the CD
> and I can certainly freely allow others to express theirs, however
> negative they may be.
>
> Fortunately, there have been some very worthwhile postings on this list
> lately (about the CD and about Gord's past) which I have greatly
> appreciated, but personally, the occasional blind, hero-worship is a
> real turn-off -- and I suspect it would be to Gord as well since he
> probably has a fairly clear idea of what his own shortcomings are as an
> artist and as a human being and might appreciate honest critical
> discussion of his work rather than just enthusiastic gushing (??)
>
> Just a thought....
Thank you so much...I too have been bewildered as to why my post would be
considered
inconsiderate...it's been a rather sad experience enduring the postings and
private emails I
have received. And you are correct it was an emotional posting because I
probably did
post it too quickly. But, and I hate to name names, but Shirley seems
completely incapable of
any rational postings when there's been anything negative posted here. It is a
shame as this should
be a free forum of all thoughts GL. One can only hope she will still be able
to enjoy the new CD as
I'm sure she's enough of an independent thinker to not care less what one
man's opinion is.
Just one further thought...it seems the negative versus positive Emails I've
received can be divided
along age lines. A point to ponder........
Larry
jason....@valpo.edu
> I can't for the life of me understand (and believe me I have tried over
> the last few days) why a man's expression of his opinion over Gord's new
> CD should be seen as "inconsiderate". I admit that "Bittergreen" was
> perhaps a bit emotional in his original posting (probably because he was
> responding immediately after first listening to the CD) but I feel that
> I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions when I purchase the CD
> and I can certainly freely allow others to express theirs, however
> negative they may be.
>
> Fortunately, there have been some very worthwhile postings on this list
> lately (about the CD and about Gord's past) which I have greatly
> appreciated, but personally, the occasional blind, hero-worship is a
> real turn-off -- and I suspect it would be to Gord as well since he
> probably has a fairly clear idea of what his own shortcomings are as an
> artist and as a human being and might appreciate honest critical
> discussion of his work rather than just enthusiastic gushing (??)
>
> Just a thought....
>
And an excellent thought at that. Very well spoken. Putting any man on a
pedestal (Gord included) strips him of his humanity, which is one of the
reasons we like him most. I find it hard to believe, given that we are all
as big a fans of Gord as we are, that any of us would be discouraged from
buying the new album because of one negative (but I believe sincere and heart-
felt) review.
Oksky
> Thank you so much...I too have been bewildered as to why my post would be
considered
>inconsiderate...it's been a rather sad experience en
Perhaps it's the age thing. When you are a little older and more experienced,
maybe you will understand why being a complete jerk might turn people off a
little.
If this offends my friends (and I do have some, Larry), please forgive me. It
needed to be said. And that's the end of it. Nothing more from me. I feel
very sorry for this person.
Shirley
BiTtErGrEeN
> Perhaps it's the age thing. When you are a little older and more experienced,
> maybe you will understand why being a complete jerk might turn people off a
> little.
> If this offends my friends (and I do have some, Larry), please forgive me. It
> needed to be said. And that's the end of it. Nothing more from me. I feel
> very sorry for this person.
>
> Shirley
You know Shirley...if your idea of "being a complete jerk" is someone who has free
and independentthoughts and the courage to stand up for what they believe, then you
are FAR more troubled than I
had thought. It's quite sad actually, you'd probably enjoy life a lot more if you
weren't so set in your
cubicled little world.
I wish you well........
Mike Murphy
In my posting'Ashamed', I mentioned Gord's brilliance and genius. 'The Man'
never ceases to
amaze me. The song , BOATHOUSE , and the GENIUS, wishing "YEW" good luck.
I rest my case. Gord, if your listening, I'm proud of you my friend.
Mike...what a tale my thoughts could tell.
Roger
Sorry- I was going to let this go, but it seems that the ME generation needs a bit of
an assist.
One way people get along and avoid killing each other is by considering others. An item
you might consider insignificant may be a really tall pole to another. Being
considerate consists of looking at others feelings- and all on this NG arte aware that
many have elevated GL to near diety standards, while others want to do nothing but
detract. Being considerate does not mean burying your feelings or suboring them to
others.
"there is none so stupid as a man who takes pride in being completelyt candid at all
times" RAH
"Be known as a man who will always be candid on questions that do not relate..." GL
Narsisis
Um..Like, why does Bittergreen (which is a girl's name) keep saying that "There
is no one who loves Gord's music more than he.."??? Sounds to me there are a
bunch of us who do...
Bittergreen, sorry, but you should have expected sparks, at least.
DUH!!
Ronnie
GARY CURKAN
Larry,
Are you suggesting that you're a '' youngster ".
gary
hw
Back to the speaker thing. APPT is the type of cd that sounds better
the more I listen to it. I'm also listening to it on different
speakers. The speakers I have on my main system is highly rated but
the sound can be thin at times. It's sounds great when I play the
majority of my cds including pop, rock, jazz, classical etc. The
Lightfoot UA collection sounds great on it. But the APPT cd didn't
come across as well as I would've liked. It thinned out the vocal
part a bit. However, it sounded great on my Altec Lansing computer
speakers and on headphones plugged directly into the cd-player. What
I need is two sets of speakers. Saving up for the Tannoy Mercury 2's.
I know they're great for vocals. I mention all this because a cd may
not sound right or good because of a stereo component. Just something
to consider.
BiTtErGrEeN
hw wrote:
> Back to the speaker thing. APPT is the type of cd that sounds better
> the more I listen to it. I'm also listening to it on different
> speakers. The speakers I have on my main system is highly rated but
> the sound can be thin at times. It's sounds great when I play the
> majority of my cds including pop, rock, jazz, classical etc. The
> Lightfoot UA collection sounds great on it. But the APPT cd didn't
> come across as well as I would've liked. It thinned out the vocal
> part a bit. However, it sounded great on my Altec Lansing computer
> speakers and on headphones plugged directly into the cd-player. What
> I need is two sets of speakers. Saving up for the Tannoy Mercury 2's.
> I know they're great for vocals. I mention all this because a cd may
> not sound right or good because of a stereo component. Just something
> to consider.
>
>
> You're very right....the more resolving your system, the worse it
> sounds. My main system consists of electrostatic speakers and tube
> electronics, and as WONDERFUL as the songs are,his voice sounds very weak.
> Listening to it on a lousy Pioneer system, his vocals sound much better.And
> having done the Audiophile thread here once before...and being flamed, it's
> just not worth it. Suffice to say, on this newsgroup, the more "normal" and
> non challenging of the "status quo" the more comfortable people feel.
BlairDavid
At my work, we do a great deal of communication via e-mail, and before that a
mainframe messaging system called BLIP. Over 10+ years, I've consistently
noticed that it is almost impossible to communicate well via e-mail over a
sensitive subject. E-mail isn't like writing letters. Letter writing was an
art-form, you could really take a long time to do it & express yourself
properly. E-mail is much more closely related to "chatting", in my opinion. So
jokes are easily misread, criticisms are taken more critically, briskness is
interpreted as meanness. My point is, Bittergreen's original note on Painter
was tempered with support, but easy to misread as inappropriate. I, for one,
hope everyone will continue to post their thoughts, however critical, here on
the group--that's what makes it interesting.
To me, Gord's voice on Painter doesn't seem much worse than I've heard it over
the last 3 or 4 years, by the way ("shot", "croaky", "thin" all seem reasonable
adjectives for that entire length of time, but I still can't stop listening!) .
The mix is "warmer" than WFY, too, as others have pointed out. And there's
some delightful fresh instrumentation from the dobro and high-string guitar.
It's going to be #1 on my CD changer for a long time to come and I look forward
to more posts from everyone after the US release!
One last note on it sounding different on different speakers. The mix is kind
of "loud" meaning that the background instrumentation can be easily heard at
low volume, especially the base. This will probably sound better over radio.
Playing this with the volume turned up on my above-average stereo system was
not pleasant, but at low volume it was fine: somewhat like the soundclip
sounded on my computer speakers!
Peace!
--Blair
BiTtErGrEeN
BlairDavid wrote:
> hTo me, Gord's voice on Painter doesn't seem much worse than I've heard it over
> the last 3 or 4 years, by the way ("shot", "croaky", "thin" all seem reasonable
> adjectives for that entire length of time, but I still can't stop listening!) .
> The mix is "warmer" than WFY, too, as others have pointed out. And there's
> some delightful fresh instrumentation from the dobro and high-string guitar.
> It's going to be #1 on my CD changer for a long time to come and I look forward
> to more posts from everyone after the US release!
>
> One last note on it sounding different on different speakers. The mix is kind
> of "loud" meaning that the background instrumentation can be easily heard at
> low volume, especially the base. This will probably sound better over radio.
> Playing this with the volume turned up on my above-average stereo system was
> not pleasant, but at low volume it was fine: somewhat like the soundclip
> sounded on my computer speakers!
>
> Very true regarding the sound quality on different systems. But regardless, it
> is a superb CD and one I've been listening to 6 or 7 times a day. I still stand
> by my voice assesment BUT and the point everyone seemed to miss is that I LOVE
> the album, I merely expressed an opinion on his voice,
Larry
hw
The cd is even starting to sound real good on my main speakers. I
guess it depends on where I sit relative to the speakers. They are
rated highly afterall. I woke up with the melody from On Yonge Street
in my head. Couldn't get it out of my head. Didn't want to. These
songs are really starting to grow on me. I think this is a much
"smoother" cd than "Waiting For You".
hw
I concur with your opinion about the mix. However, my position
relative to the speakers played a part as well. Repeated listening
helped too.
blair...@aol.com (BlairDavid) wrote:
>At my work, we do a great deal of communication via e-mail, and before that a
>mainframe messaging system called BLIP. Over 10+ years, I've consistently
>noticed that it is almost impossible to communicate well via e-mail over a
>sensitive subject. E-mail isn't like writing letters. Letter writing was an
>art-form, you could really take a long time to do it & express yourself
>properly. E-mail is much more closely related to "chatting", in my opinion. So
>jokes are easily misread, criticisms are taken more critically, briskness is
>interpreted as meanness. My point is, Bittergreen's original note on Painter
>was tempered with support, but easy to misread as inappropriate. I, for one,
>hope everyone will continue to post their thoughts, however critical, here on
>the group--that's what makes it interesting.
>To me, Gord's voice on Painter doesn't seem much worse than I've heard it over
>the last 3 or 4 years, by the way ("shot", "croaky", "thin" all seem reasonable
>adjectives for that entire length of time, but I still can't stop listening!) .
> The mix is "warmer" than WFY, too, as others have pointed out. And there's
>some delightful fresh instrumentation from the dobro and high-string guitar.
>It's going to be #1 on my CD changer for a long time to come and I look forward
>to more posts from everyone after the US release!
>One last note on it sounding different on different speakers. The mix is kind
>of "loud" meaning that the background instrumentation can be easily heard at
>low volume, especially the base. This will probably sound better over radio.
>Playing this with the volume turned up on my above-average stereo system was
>not pleasant, but at low volume it was fine: somewhat like the soundclip
>sounded on my computer speakers!
>Peace!
>--Blair
BlairDavid
>The cd is even starting to sound real good on my main speakers. I
>guess it depends on where I sit relative to the speakers. They are
>rated highly afterall. I woke up with the melody from On Yonge Street
>in my head. Couldn't get it out of my head. Didn't want to. These
>songs are really starting to grow on me. I think this is a much
>"smoother" cd than "Waiting For You".
>
>
The melodies are certainly the most memorable in recent CD's. I've got several
stuck in my head and I really haven't listened all that many times!
--Blair
Darerott
Wow, I leave for a week and look what happens. :-)
I'm not going get involved in the"flaming" I just want to throw in my two
cents worth about the CD, since I was lucky enough to hear Gord 4 nights and
listen to the CD repeatedly on my way home. First, Gord sounded great live, (
of course who sounds good dead. ;-) ) I noticed a few little changes but not
much since last year. I must say he did the CRT absolutley fantastic on Sat.
You could tell he gave it his all. Now to the CD, speakers made a big
differnce for me. The car speakers just didn't compare to my home speakers.
As it has been repeatedly mentioned it is obvious that age is going to affect
anyones vocals. We must realize it has been 5 years since the last CD.
Plenty of time for a little more aging. So does Gords voice sound" bad", you
ask? Only you can answer that. I don't think I would ever admit to his voice
sounding "bad" anyways, just matured. I have admired his work for so long,
not just the vocals but the lyrics and the arrangements. If one part lacks, it
is compansated by another. Like many others have mentioned, the first time you
listen to a new CD it might be a little disappointing, or it's not what we have
mentally built it up to be before actually hearing it. I know before I buy a
new GL CD it's going to be great. I run home put it in the player and it
hasn't lived up to the anticipated greatness that I had made myself believe it
was going to be. ( And after 5 years of waiting and thinking how great it will
be, it has to be pretty darn good to live up to those expectations). But I
play it again, and again. And with each song and listening it reaches the
greatness that I originally thought it would be. APPT was the same. I had
heard many of the songs prior to getting the cd and had a good Idea of what to
expect. But still I was a little dissapointed at first listening. Boathouse
rocks more in concert, on the cd it seems to mellow. But as I play it more I
like it more. I don't think any GL fan will be Truely disappointed. I like
the fact that Gords voice is more prominent. I thought on WFY it got to buried
in the mix in some of the tracks. I enjoy hearing some background vocals again
( Gord backing himself up in Boathouse is cool) , and the additional
instruments that we haven't heard in awhile, such as the Harmonica in UNCLE
TOAD. As I have mentioned in a previous post this CD already has a special
place in my heart, due to the massey trip. This CD is a keeper!! And a must
for any GL fan. I already got two.. I don't want to ruin the signed copy! :-)
I will be interested in what the rest of you have to say, Tuesday evening. :-)
Sorry for another rambling but I was having withdrawls being away for a week.
I guess I'm making up for it. :-)
"Look around this place there's a smile on every face"
Darin
"Bless you all and keep you with the faith to let it pass"
BiTtErGrEeN
Sundreme wrote:
> I understand that you didn't mean anything malicious when you wrote what you
> did, and I also believe that this is a free country and we are all entitled to
> write or say whatever we darn please, but that doesn't mean that I don't get
> upset by things that people say and your post did upset me indeed. What bothers
> me is that you didn't give us American fans a chance to get the album and
> decide for ourselves whether or not we liked Gord's voice on the new album. I
> know that someone might say "Oh that's ridiculous, nobody is stopping you from
> making up your own mind." And indeed I WILL buy the album and decide for
> myself if I like it or not.
That is hogwash, other people's OPINIONS should mean NOTHING to you. Frankly,
whogives a damn where it was released first...if it was released in the "States'
before here, I would
EXPECT to read opinions on it. I would NOT expect Americans to wait until we
Canadians
had a chance to make up our minds. You have a mind,use it! My opinion should not
sway ANYONE.
It is his best album in years material wise and his voice has changed.....and
EVERYONE knows this.
> I feel ambushed. I know that you
> say you wish someone had warned you before hand about the quality of Gord's
> voice and perhaps you thought that you were doing us a favor by telling us how
> bad his voice sounded, but in my opinion I would have liked to have been able
> to buy the album without having someone put such a depressing seed of doubt in
> my mind. Really now, we are all aware of the changes that Gord's voice has gone
> through.
>
If you're aware of the changes then feeling "ambushed" is quite ludicrous.
Sundreme
In article <35585BDF...@mindless.com>, BiTtErGrEeN
<inner...@mindless.com> writes:
You already replied to me a week ago regarding this and I wrote already wrote
you back- Remember! In your E-mail, you said something totally different to
me... you were very polite, as was my reply. But I guess you can't deal with
people being to polite to you, so you had to do a complete about face, so that
I would never make the same mistake and try to talk to you like a decent human
being again! Congratulations on a job well done! You should take your own
advice as far as people's opinions meaning nothing. All you know how to do is
attack people, then you wonder why people react badly to you. I feel sorry for
anyone that knows you, you have no idea how to act civilized to people. You
just want to impress people with how intelligent you supposedly are, but NOBODY
is impressed with you but YOU!! This little debate was over a week ago, but
you are still nursing your wounds. As I said you can say anything you want to
say, but you cannot expect others to not have opinions of there own. What the
hell makes you think your right to speak is greater than mine, or anyone elses.
Guess what, that aint the way the world works!! GROW UP and GET OVER IT!!!! By
the way, your opinion does mean nothing to me, Im still going to get Gord's CD
this week, no matter what silly opinions you may have. His voice HAS changed
and everyone does know that. You are the one who acted like you had no clue
about it. Well Im going to sign off now, goodbye and I hope you get help for
your obvious deep seated anger problem!!
By the way,take some time to learn internet quoting conventions...You arent
suppose to put those little arrows beside what you are writing; they are only
supposed to appear next to what you are replying to!! Sheesh, even I know that,
and I'm on AOL!(-:
Sundreme
In article <199805122359...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, sund...@aol.com
(Sundreme) writes:
> By the way,take some time to learn internet quoting conventions...You arent
>suppose to put those little arrows beside what you are writing; they are only
>supposed to appear next to what you are replying to!! Sheesh, even I know
>that,
>and I'm on AOL!(-:
>
>
>
>
Never mind! I was so annoyed I was seeing double, I saw arrows were there were
none! OOPS sorry...He actually got that part right! Mea Culpa!!(-: See I can
admit when I'm wrong, even if some people can't! Have a nice day
everyone...Jeez what a difference five minutes makes...I feel so much better
now. I just wanna laugh and forget all this stupidity. Sorry for my earlier out
burst, but even someone as sweet, wonderful and even tempered as me can get
pissed off:-D But,I hate to add uglieness to this otherwise terrific and lovely
newsgroup. I guess I'm just a little tempermental because its May the 12th and
I haven't had a chance to buy the new CD today.)-: I need my Lightfoot fix! Bye
everone and have a good Gord day!!:-D
Erica
Darerott
>I enjoy hearing some background vocals again
>( Gord backing himself up in Boathouse is cool) ,
I want to correct myself before anyone else does, Gord isn't "backing" himself.
It sounded like it to me, but it was pointed out to me that it is not so.
Obviously I hadn't read the Liner notes. It was Bob Doidge. It's still cool
though. :-)