WTB: PG CD-r
TheKMFDM1
Can anyone make me a good copy of Physical Graffiti on CD-r? I'd really
appreciate it a lot. If many respond I'll take the cheapest offer. Thanks!
NL Zwolle
>From: thek...@aol.com
>Can anyone make me a good copy of Physical Graffiti on CD-r? I'd really
>appreciate it a lot. If many respond I'll take the cheapest offer. Thanks!
I don't think it's a good idea.... why not look for a copy at your local used
cd shop? Bootlegging other bootlegs is fine, but I hope I speak for all here
when I say that copying official releases should not be encouraged or condoned.
Pirates suck, and should NOT be confused with (or thought of
as)bootlegs.....Christopher.
WyldTurky
Couldn't you buy a copy of PG? I'm sure its still available everywhere.
ale...@ix.netcom.com
I agree. Dig through your seat cushions and break open your
piggybank, you should be able to come up with enough change to
purchase the real thing. I found the digitally remastered version in
a used bin for 15 bucks. You would probably spend more than that at
Carl's Jr.
Alembic
"Look over yonder"
"What do you see"
"The sun is a'rising"
"Most definitely"
>On 04 Jun 1998 17:26:14 GMT, nlzw...@aol.com (NL Zwolle) wrote:
>>From: thek...@aol.com
>>Can anyone make me a good copy of Physical Graffiti on CD-r? I'd really
>>appreciate it a lot. If many respond I'll take the cheapest offer. Thanks!
>
Mark.J.Desocio
On 4 Jun 1998, NL Zwolle wrote:
> >From: thek...@aol.com
> >Can anyone make me a good copy of Physical Graffiti on CD-r? I'd really
> >appreciate it a lot. If many respond I'll take the cheapest offer. Thanks!
>
> I don't think it's a good idea.... why not look for a copy at your local used
> cd shop? Bootlegging other bootlegs is fine, but I hope I speak for all here
> when I say that copying official releases should not be encouraged or condoned.
> Pirates suck, and should NOT be confused with (or thought of
> as)bootlegs.....Christopher.
You don't speak for me. I'd encourage everyone to get their hands on music
in any conceivable way other than legal means; steal it if you must. Down
with taxes, record execs, copyright laws, corporate oligarchies, &
inflated prices. Steal, rob, pirate, loot, bootleg - using peaceful
nonviolent means of course. For tips, check out these two classic books,
conveniently posted illegally on the internet:
* Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book" (1971)
http://www.vintagevinyl.com/steal/steal.html
* Hakim Bey, "The Temporary Autonomous Zone, Ontological Anarchy, Poetic
Terrorism"
http://www.hermetic.com/bey/taz_cont.html
Break out of the confines and chains of peaceful living and obedience to
laws. As Hakim Bey said, "You're a criminal; now start acting like one!"
Michael
ale...@ix.netcom.com
I'm sure that Townshend would have smacked Bey with his guitar as
well.
It's interesting, but not surprising that you would list Hoffman and
Bey as recommended reading. They both represent trendiness in
apolitical rhetoric. They are the intellectual equivalent of Rap
music. Loud, annoying and frightening to the un-initiated,
un-intelligible, yet trendy to the rebel-wannabe's. It's enjoyable
and satisfying to align yourself with something that so many others
shun.
You need to list among your readings "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand.
You are truly Toohey incarnate. Please continue to cherish your
mediocrity - if that's all you've got to offer, than it is no wonder
you have no qualms about stealing from others.
Alembic
"If I told you what it takes"
"to reach the highest high,"
"You'd laugh and say 'nothing's that simple'"
"But you've been told many times before"
"Messiahs pointed to the door"
"And no one had the guts to leave the temple!"
Mark.J.Desocio
On Sat, 6 Jun 1998 ale...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> I'm sure that Townshend would have smacked Bey with his guitar as
> well.
>
> It's interesting, but not surprising that you would list Hoffman and
> Bey as recommended reading. They both represent trendiness in
> apolitical rhetoric. They are the intellectual equivalent of Rap
> music. Loud, annoying and frightening to the un-initiated,
> un-intelligible, yet trendy to the rebel-wannabe's.
What a paternalist! So you're saying that hip-hop is hip only to the
uninitiated trend-followers? And that the reason rap is to be dismissed is
because it is "loud, annoying and frightening"? Doesn't that pretty much
describe the reaction of those who initially dismissed rock and roll? And
aren't you pretty much dismissing nearly every African-American who came
of age in the last fifteen years?
> It's enjoyable
> and satisfying to align yourself with something that so many others
> shun.
>
> You need to list among your readings "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand.
> You are truly Toohey incarnate. Please continue to cherish your
> mediocrity - if that's all you've got to offer, than it is no wonder
> you have no qualms about stealing from others.
Are you completely devoid of any humor whatsoever? I'll come down to your
ideological level to say that I'm not a fan of either Hoffman (an
opportunist), Bey (what he advocates, although it's often in jest, makes
the Unabomber look like a saint), OR Rand (present-day liberal capitalist
heroine - re: libertarian anarchist). Rand's philosophy is passe to all
except the latest capitalist band-wagoners who need a reason to believe
after the wall fell, and yet need to call themselves liberal. Marrying
egoism (the least worthwile of the anarchist schools) with capitalism and
calling it objectivism! Gee, we're sure to save the rainforests now!
Even on the fringe or marginal underground, Bey's name isn't taken that
seriously. I chose his name because of the easy availability of his book
on-line, and yes, because of it's amusing "loudness," which I don't expect
many people would take seriously, except as a pointer toward "poetic
terrorism" (see Adbusters and Stay Free!) Do you want more interesting
names? Gerry Reith, Fredy Perlman, Bob Black, John Zerzan.
Personally, I enjoy the works of Camus; but that's just me.
If you REALLY want to be on the cutting-edge, learn what the Beijing
Fourth World Women's Conference was about. Check out what people like
Winona LaDuke, various ecofeminists (Susan Griffin, Ariel Salleh) and
so-called Third World peace advocates (Nawal el Saadawi) are saying about
our present age of "neo-colonialism": the unrestrained looting of the
non-Western world by the Western governments under the guise of "free
markets," "economic aide," "industrialization," and "the new world order."
Rand had a lot of good things to say; but her philosophies on economics
are on the chopping block of world (powerless and disenfranchised)
opinion.
Michael
Mark.J.Desocio
Just so no one out there gets taken in by this chump, here's Ayn Rand
(hero to most of the U.S.'s most illustrious fat-cat CEO's and marketeers
- like Alan Greenspan) in her own words. If her words - the bible of
libertarian thought today - don't scare you, then you must be on the
emperor's payroll. I must mention in passing that these so-called
libertarian anarchists (who like to call themselves liberals) make Rush
Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Michael Eisner, and Phil Knight sound like
bleeding-hearts. It's easy to see that Hitler's Nazi party was originally
called the National Socialists, and that fascist Benito Mussolini was
originally a member of the Italian socialist party! Steel yourselves from
laughter:
"When I say 'capitalism', I mean a full, pure uncontrolled, unregulated
laissez-faire capitalism - with a separation of state and economics, in
the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and
church. A pure system of capitalism has never yet existed, not even in
America; various degrees of government control had been undercutting and
distorting it from the start. Capitalism is not the system of the past; it
is the system of the future - if man is to have a future." - Any Rand
"If one wishes to advocate a free society - that is capitalism - one must
realize that its indispensable foundation is the principle of individual
rights, one must realize that capitalism is the only system that can
uphold and protect them." AR - 108 - VOS
"Those who advocate laissez-faire capitalism are the only advocates of
man's rights." AR - 117 - VOS
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask
for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men
deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and
guns- or dollars. Take your choice- there is no other- and your time is
running out."
As you can see, the only people who could possibly tolerate this drivel
are those whose conscience will not allow them to partake in an evil
system based on greed without needing a moral crutch to act as religious
justification. They need this stuff to justify their zeal; but to go so
far as to say it benefits mankind and encourages human rights... - that's
just *grand*! Only Limbaugh says such things more eloquently w/o a trace
of sarcasm or irony! "Money is the root of all good"!
Michael
On Sat, 6 Jun 1998 ale...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> I'm sure that Townshend would have smacked Bey with his guitar as
> well.
>
> It's interesting, but not surprising that you would list Hoffman and
> Bey as recommended reading. They both represent trendiness in
> apolitical rhetoric. They are the intellectual equivalent of Rap
> music. Loud, annoying and frightening to the un-initiated,
> un-intelligible, yet trendy to the rebel-wannabe's. It's enjoyable
> and satisfying to align yourself with something that so many others
> shun.
>
> You need to list among your readings "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand.
> You are truly Toohey incarnate. Please continue to cherish your
> mediocrity - if that's all you've got to offer, than it is no wonder
> you have no qualms about stealing from others.
>
Mark.J.Desocio
I promise I'll lay off of Ayn Rand after this post! (Unless further
provoked, that is! :)
But I just have to reprint this review of a recent documentary on Rand,
written by film theorist Jonathan Rosenbaum (after Andre Bazin and Sarris,
probably the most highly respected) in the Chicago Reader, who captures
in essence my feeling on Rand's philosophy:
- Michael
"Inside Pitches: 'Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life' and 'Primary Colors' "
By Jonathan Rosenbaum
Two highly partisan political movies are opening this week, a right-wing
independent documentary and a left-wing Hollywood feature - though it's
not clear that the filmmakers of either would categorize their work in
this way. Certainly it wouldn't be any exaggeration to call both films the
efforts of special interest groups - a movie about Bill Clinton put
together by people who mainly qualify as his supporters and friends and a
sincere hagiography of novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand fashioned by many
of her disciples and acolytes. How far they actually carry their
respective loyalties is a different matter, however. Ultimately both
movies flounder as well as triumph because of their insider points of
view, though not always for the same reasons.
Whenever Ayn Rand's name comes up, I have an impulse to scoff, an impulse
I think is shared by many others. To its credit, Michael Paxton's Ayn
Rand: A Sense of Life - which I'm tempted to call "Ayn Rand: A Sense of
Camp" - acknowledges this snobbish impulse more than once. But to its
discredit it attributes people's skepticism about Rand almost exclusively
to the culture's supposed ideology of collectivism, without taking other
factors into account.
Rand's taste in literature and the other arts is an obstacle when it comes
to accepting her as a world-class intellectual, as this film clearly does:
she revered others besides Aristotle, Victor Hugo, Frank Lloyd Wright, and
the Fritz Lang of Siegfried and Metropolis. Paxton's film alludes to
Rand's touching celebration of the utopian spirit of Marilyn Monroe,
offered shortly after the actress's death, but it excludes her appalling
defense of the early novels of Mickey Spillane and his hero Mike Hammer as
models worthy of emulation. (Spillane eventually became Rand's friend, and
she wrote with admiration in The Romantic Manifesto that "he gives me the
feeling of hearing a military band in a public park" - one indication of
her musical taste, which mainly ran to what she called "tiddlywink music"
from the turn of the century.) Page through the index of the recently
published Letters of Ayn Rand in search of the giants of literary
modernism, and you find most of them are absent - although she does link
James Joyce to the "beatniks" as an example of "the sort of junk that's
admired in English courses." And Gertrude Stein? "She is being published,
discussed and given more publicity than any real writer. Why? There's no
financial profit in it. Just as a joke? I don't think so. It is done - in
the main probably quite subconsciously to destroy the mind in literature."
Whose, one wonders?
But such criticism is secondary. Part of my reflexive scoffing at Rand is
intellectual and part is political; but a third part is emotional. I
suspect that this part is closely allied with the reasons that many
Americans scoff at Jerry Lewis: like Rand, he's come to stand for a stage
in our adolescence that we'd rather forget. Rand's vibrant appeal to
adolescents, including me when I was in high school, is profoundly sexual:
she provokes a sense of exalted fantasy tied up with raging hormones and
resolves the vexing need to reconcile self-interest with social and
ethical duties. Rand's message that selfishness is empowering and
self-sacrifice is destructive can cut through teenage confusion like a
piercing yet comforting ray of light, as penetrating as Rand's own gaze,
and make one's blood race in the bargain.
Indeed, the sexiness of The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged is an integral
part of their utopianism, making them blood sisters of Leni Riefenstahl's
Triumph of the Will and Olympia in their kitschy splendor and sexual lift
(if not in their political programs). "It seems that erotic verve is
indissociable from contempt for all community, from frantic exaltation of
individuality in the furtherance of traditional social and moral
principles," Luc Moullet wrote in Cahiers du Cinema in 1958, citing Jet
Pilot and The Fountainhead as the two summits of right-wing eroticism.
We tend to avoid this brutal fact, but the American dream of untrammeled
freedom and glittering self-realization can at times be boiled down to a
compulsive desire to relive and rewrite our adolescent traumas, giving
them a happier outcome. If Jerry Lewis represents the implied hell of
adolescence, Ayn Rand ushers us into the implied heaven, for which her
phallic skyscrapers are always reaching. In some ways this makes her as
threatening to adult minds as she is attractive to adolescents. Moreover,
since Rand herself fled communist Russia to script Hollywood movies when
she was 21, surely her own American adventure was a protracted
postadolescent episode, for better and for worse.
Paxton is certainly attentive to the romantic side of Rand's legacy, but
he skimps on the sexual side. For that story, one needs to turn to Barbara
Branden's fascinating and troubling 1986 biography, The Passion of Ayn
Rand, which offers a compendium of the kind of material that Paxton can't
begin to handle. This stretches all the way from a Petrograd friend named
Leo (a traumatic infatuation that he didn't reciprocate) to Nathaniel
Branden, the biographer's former husband and Rand's designated
intellectual heir and key acolyte for the better part of two decades. For
14 of those years - beginning in the mid-50s, when he was 24 and Rand was
pushing 50 - they were lovers, with the full knowledge and tortured
approval of their spouses but almost no one else within their tight,
intensely interactive circle. Their affair came to a cataclysmic end when
Rand discovered that Nathaniel had been sleeping with another Rand acolyte
for several years. He was violently and totally excommunicated - an action
accounted for publicly only by Rand's announcement that he'd been involved
in a series of personal and professional deceptions.
Significantly, Leo isn't mentioned at all in this purportedly intimate
documentary, and Nathaniel is accorded a stretch of about three and a half
minutes (out of 145). Meanwhile brave Barbara Branden - who remained a
passionate Rand disciple before, during, and after Rand's affair with her
husband and one of Rand's closest friends until shortly after his
excommunication - barely figures at all. (The complex spiritual links
between Ayn, Nathaniel, and Barbara are perhaps rooted in the fact that
they all adopted hard-sounding goy replacements for their original Jewish
names: Alice Rosenbaum, Nathaniel Blumenthal, and Barbara Weidman. Neal
Gabler's provocative thesis in An Empire of Their Own: How the Jews
Invented Hollywood - that Hollywood's version of the American Dream was
largely the dopey creation of Jews in flight from their ethnicity - can
probably be applied equally well to the founding gospel of Rand's
Objectivism, which was in turn guided by Hollywood, as this documentary
cogently shows.)
Given Rand's monstrous behavior when she unleashed the fury of a woman
scorned, it's understandable that Paxton leapfrogs over this pivotal
episode and omits the painful story of Leo. But the crushing irony of
Paxton's massive act of repression - made in deference to Rand and her own
self-representations after her bitter break with the Brandens - is how
close it comes to the historical elisions of Stalinism. This is a paradox
to reckon with, because it's difficult to think of a 20th-century writer
who hated communism in general and Stalinism in particular more than Rand
did. But even if this movie dutifully, eloquently articulates that hatred
while it simultaneously (and probably unconsciously) enacts a Freudian
return of the repressed, the history of the cold war was full of such
unnerving mirror effects - like the ideological boomerang that turned this
country and the Soviet Union into grotesque twins at the height of their
mutual opposition.
In spite of all my objections to Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life, I have to
admit that I found it compulsively watchable - partly because Paxton is so
adept at lacing Rand's arguments with their fantasy inspirations (which in
the documentary range from vintage film clips to original animation
interludes, with lots of Hollywood gossip in between) and partly because
Rand is still a deeply affecting figure. For all her championing of
unlimited laissez-faire capitalism, she refused the label of conservative
- considering American conservatives even worse than American liberals -
preferring the designation "radical capitalist." True, she was stupid
enough to declare to the House Un-American Activities Committee in 1947
that the Russian people never smile - "If they do, it is privately and
accidentally. Certainly, it is not social" - a fact tactfully omitted in
the documentary. But she was also sensible enough to consider these
hearings a pathetic farce - a fact that the documentary includes.
One might assume that she would have welcomed Ronald Reagan and his
economic reforms with open arms - particularly after one of her disciples,
Alan Greenspan, became a top Reagan adviser. But as she wrote to a fan in
1981, "I did not vote for any of the Presidential candidates. I do not
approve of Mr. Reagan's mixture of capitalism and religion." (In a warm
letter to Barry Goldwater almost two decades earlier, she wrote of the
National Review, "I am profoundly opposed to it - not because it is a
religious magazine but because it pretends that it is not.") Because her
atheism ran neck and neck with her economics, she refused to condone
potential boondoggles and convenient alliances. (That same inflexibility
could be found in some of her heroes; informed gossip tells me that the
reason Frank Lloyd Wright set impossible conditions for designing the sets
for the film version of The Fountainhead was that he regarded Rand as
something of a screwball.) In fact, the only political campaigning she
ever did was for Wendell Willkie in 1940, and she became so disillusioned
by what she regarded as his betrayal of capitalism in his speeches that
she wound up declaring him "the guiltiest man of any for destroying
America, more guilty than Roosevelt, who was only the creature of his
time, riding the current." (Betrayals were as vital to her erotic program
as projected matches on Mount Olympus.)
Rand's inability to compromise undoubtedly produced a kind of tragic
heroism, and Paxton's affectionate portrait amply illustrates her
unswerving idealism. After the death of her beloved husband, Frank
O'Connor, in her later years, she was asked on a national TV show if she
wouldn't entertain the possibility of joining him in an afterlife. Her
poised and firm reply was that if she could, she would kill herself
immediately. One of the film's final quotations from her is for me the
most memorable, encapsulating her art and her metaphysics in a single
phrase: "Death isn't important; eternity is important, and eternity is
now."
D. J. Cooper
TheKMFDM1 wrote in message
<199806041629...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>Can anyone make me a good copy of Physical Graffiti on CD-r? I'd really
>appreciate it a lot. If many respond I'll take the cheapest offer. Thanks!
So here you go my friend:
The following sealed CDs are for sale:
Led zeppelin: 1 8$
led zeppelin: 2 8$
led zeppelin: 4 8$
led zeppelin: houses of the holy 8$
led zeppelin: physical graffiti 14$
Or take all for 40 $ US (the shipping is included in the price)
email me if you are interested
nowa...@mail.colba.net
I somehow do not appreciate ripping off this band with a cd-r, however
that's how Grant saw tapers at the shows. Do it all the time with MS
products though...go figure.
DJ
ale...@ix.netcom.com
If you recall your original post, you were advocating the outright
thievery of music. I don't know of any extreme liberal or
ultra-conservative that would align themselves with this kind of
thinking. Theft (or any crime), is not a matter of whether the victim
can "afford it", it is clearly a matter of personal conscience.
As for Abbie Hoffman, Hakim Bey and Ayn Rand, they all represent
extremism in their thinking. Ayn Rand was a political satirist.
Generally speaking, satire has it's roots in reality, yet is
ultimately fiction. On the other hand Hoffman and Bey are political
zealots. There is no trace of satire in their thinking. Regardless
of how outlandish or extreme their words, they still truly believe in
the righteouness of their opinions.
You made the mistake of assuming that since I referenced Ayn Rand's
novel "The Fountainhead", that I was embracing all her thoughts and
philosophies.
We are presumably all fans of Page & Plant/Led Zep, yet how many of us
would advocate and embrace their off-stage lifestyles.
BTW, somebody who is as well read as you certainly could come up with
a better epithet than "chump".
Alembic
"Breathe, breathe in the air"
"Don't be afraid to care"
"Leave but don't leave me"
"Look around and chose your own ground"
"For long you live and high you fly"
"And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry"
"And all you touch and all you see"
"Is all your life will ever be"
>" Mark.J.Desocio " <deso...@bama.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>Just so no one out there gets taken in by this chump, here's Ayn Rand
>(Snip!)
Mark.J.Desocio
On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 ale...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> If you recall your original post, you were advocating the outright
> thievery of music.
I was joking; I thought it was one of my more funnier moments! BUT,
stealing a cassette or CD is so trivial that it doesn't even warrant a
discussion - and what child or teenager *hasn't* stolen tapes or books? (I
know I certainly did; I'd never have read Nietzsche or Sartre at the age
of as a preteen otherwise!)
> I don't know of any extreme liberal or
> ultra-conservative that would align themselves with this kind of
> thinking.
See anarchists like Leo Tolstoy, Henry David Thoreau, Emma Goldman,
Proudhon, or socialist Bertrand Russell. You'd be surprised what they
thought!
> Theft (or any crime), is not a matter of whether the victim
> can "afford it", it is clearly a matter of personal conscience.
Don't be a prude; what do you call our present-day economic system but
outright thievery? There's few things people need to live: primary among
them is oxygen and food. Both are primary, basic rights; none should be
deprived, and no one - no government, no economist, no judge, no lawer -
should ever be allowed to ever deprive anyone of either. Since they can't
charge us for oxygen - and you know they would if they could - they get
away with the whole "scarcity" gibberish when even the poorest, most
hungry person knows that's a fraud, that there's plenty to eat. There are
*priests* who advocate stealing to live! and they don't think of it as
stealing, since it belongs to us anyway. The third common denominator
to survival is shelter. You would argue that this right isn't denied us;
but try to sleep in a park and see how many nights go by before you're
picked up! Apparently, the law that is being broken is the refusal to pay
a landlord!
It's alright when they steel entire continents, plunder the resources of
entire ecosystems, subject entire peoples to their "free market" overseas
factory work, but God forbid we should lift a book or cassette out
of a store! And since our whole ultra-materialistic society is based on
the perpetuation of these crimes against its citizens, crime by its
citizens is absolutely inevitable. Read Nelson Mandela's autobiography; he
very elaborately examines the relationship between government and crime:
"I was made, by the law, a criminal, not because of what I had done, but
because of what I stood for, because of what I thought, because of my
conscience. Can it be any wonder to anybody that such conditions make a
man an outlaw of society? Can it be wondered that such a man, having been
outlawed by the Goverment, should be prepard to lead the life of an
outlaw, as I have led for some time?...But there comes a time, as it came
in my life, when a man is denied the right to live a normal life, when he
can only live the life of an outlaw because the Government has so decreed
to use the law to impose a state of outlawry upon him."
Now compare that statement with this from Hakim Bey: "The Law waits for
you to stumble on a mode of being, a soul different from the FDA-approved
purple-stamped standard dead-meat - & as soon as you begin to act at
harmony with nature the Law garottes & strangles you - so don't play the
blessed liberal middleclass martyr - accept the fact that you're a
criminal & be prepared to act like one."
I'm not going to debate whether you're right and they're wrong; but I hope
you don't mind if I take their position! (and not the "FDA-approved"
version of what a liberal is supposed to be like [in other words, a
democrat]).
Michael
(P.S. - I've never heard Rand's name mentioned in the context of satire!
She was *serious*!)
Neal Richardson
If all this clap-trap is your way of justifying a dishonest lifestyle, then
good luck to you. Please take your soap-box to alt.anarchy.
Jack Woodhull
Amen, brother! Here's hoping the Revolution comes sooner rather than
later.
> (P.S. - I've never heard Rand's name mentioned in the context of satire!
> She was *serious*!)
Unfortunately, that's what makes Rand that much more culpable for being
such an awful writer and a poor theorist.
Jack
Lee McCauslin
Mark.J.Desocio wrote in message ...
The third common denominator
>to survival is shelter. You would argue that this right isn't denied us;
>but try to sleep in a park and see how many nights go by before you're
>picked up!
Yeah, you get picked up and what do you get? Shelter! and food!!
Win-Win!!
:0]
LM (injecting a bit of foolishness into an otherwise very interesting
discussion) (please continue)