Opinions, Please
Oktober Maniak
This is way off subject, but I'm going to ask anyway. I'll get right too
it.
What is everyones opinion of drinking, and or smoking pot?
Why I ask is; I just got a ride home from Dawn and Traci's house. It's
only a mile down the road, I'm sure I could have drove myself {maybe}, but
Robert was headed out so I caught a ride. I'll walk there to get my car
tomorrrow.
wait a minute. I don't have any real reason for asking this, except
that this newsgroup bunch is unique when compared to any other group I've
ever been a part of. This includes the Duran Duran and Aphex Twin
newsgroups. No offense meant to anyone, but... Well, I shant explain myself
there, it's just my personal opinions {flame on your own time please}.
Just curious,
Oktober Maniak
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Daryl
alchohol is the worst, in my opinion. I do not believe anyone has ever died
from a pot overdose, but you can definately die from too much alchohol.
Final thoughts: know all the information about what mind altering chemicals
you are putting into your body.
I always think back to what Kurt said about using drugs: something to the
effect of "it's hacking your own brain"
Sorry if I grossly misquoted!
Daryl
"Oktober Maniak" <Oktobe...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:T5Tr8.7659$JZ6.1...@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
Binaryeyes.
"Oktober Maniak" <Oktobe...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote
> What is everyones opinion of drinking, and or smoking pot?
Objectively:
It's your choice, provided you don't use either chemical in ways that
adversely affect other people. This means doing it at home, in moderation,
responsibly, etc. If you've got a spouse/live-in partner or children, you
have to decide whether this will affect them, and weigh your
responsibilities there. You also have a responsibility to yourself, in
deciding just how much you think using these will change you (and they do),
and whether or not that's a good thing in the short and long term.
Personally:
I've sworn off anything more than an occaisional pint of beer (and by that,
I mean semi-bimonthly, if that). I tried both alcohol and pot, found that
they satisfied me less than the life I lead without them (in fact, they made
me sick and fucked my congnitive processes!), and went on. I've decided
pretty firmly that intoxication damages my ability to create, think, and be
aware on every level. The people I know who use one or both with any
frequency are split down the middle between generally cool and dangerously
extra-bastard. In one case, pot has fucked his life pretty substantially,
but he's got an emotional/psychological dependancy on it. In another case,
it shattered a friend's self-confidence, and he's pretty much disappeared.
On the other hand, pot also helped a friend of mine work through some major
life-issues, and now that they're dealt with, he's quitting.
Hacking Your Brain (my opinion):
Both of these make substantial chemical changes in your head, and they're
not pretty, overall. Food also makes changes. So does sleep. So does
insight meditation, prayer, and thinking, as well as medication. That's a
big reason I didn't start taking anti-depressants: it would alter my brain
too much, and I can't prove that there's much more to "me" than what happens
up there.
I personally draw the line where these changes are brought on through
action/regular function, or for their own sake. Many of the chemical
changes brought on for their own sake are more abrupt and potentially
damaging than the ones brought on through action/regular function. For me,
making changes through zazen is more acceptable than popping Prozac or
getting boozed up.
Hope that helps. FYI, here's a link to Kurt's article on InSoc.org (cached
by google!):
http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:n73pTEYRtzsC:www.insoc.org/texts/Use.HT
ML+%22hacking+your+brain%22&hl=en&start=2
Binaryeyes.
MzkNvrStpd
Either of those things could be just fine or really bad, depending on the
person involved and their level of use.
Alcohol makes a lot of people act like idiots, and in the long term can make
people do some pretty crazy stuff. It's realy important not to drive after
drinking. Even with the slightest buzz, it's really unsafe to be behind the
wheel, despite one's desire to convince themselves of their ability to handle
it.
People that smoke pot need to be careful not to get into a lifestyle wherein
they just sit around and smoke pot all day while being completely
non-productive in their lives. They also need to know when they're too high to
drive. For most people, pot isn't nearly as disruptive to driving abilities as
alcohol is (most stoned people are more likely to get lost than they are to hit
something), but there is a point when one is just too wasted to drive safely.
If alcohol and pot and used in a way that fits into a person's life in a
non-destructive way, then either one can be a whole lot of fun and I'm all for
having fun.
Jeremy
Daryl
"Oktober Maniak" <Oktobe...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:T5Tr8.7659$JZ6.1...@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
Oktober Maniak
interesting article from Sir Kurt.
Thank U all,
I'll go back into the hiding now that I've been doing all my life
Even before trying weed.
Oktober Maniak
P.S., just for the record. I don't do it all that often, mainly just on the
weekends, and only one or 2 times. a couple of puffs {siriously 1 or 2}. I'm
a lightweight. Usually I do actually pass it up.
Rob T Firefly
news:T5Tr8.7659$JZ6.1...@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
> This is way off subject, but I'm going to ask anyway. I'll get right
too
> it.
>
> What is everyones opinion of drinking, and or smoking pot?
Personally, I've always been too much of a control freak in regards to my
own mind and body to ever use anything like that. I've seen what such
things can do to others, in fact my family seems to be historically easily
addicted to things like alcohol, cigarettes, and harder stuff, and so have
chosen to stay away from it myself. However, if someone capable of
understanding the risks involved still makes the choice to do it (and
today's civilizations can't claim to not know that any of this stuff is bad
for your health) I'd let them make their choice and get on with life.
As long as they're not planning on driving afterwards, that is. There will
never be an excuse for DWI.
I do think there's a reason for everything in the world, and certain things
aren't poisonous by accident. Whatever. I'll shut up now.
-- RTF
http://bounce.to/rtf - personal page
http://connect.to/cwp - Celebrities With Phones
AIM - Rob T Firefly
Kurt Harland
> This is way off subject, but I'm going to ask anyway. I'll get right to it.
>
> What is everyones opinion of drinking, and or smoking pot?
I've always been afraid to try either.
- Kurt
Lutra
>
> > What is everyones opinion of drinking, and or smoking pot?
I read the "hacking your brain" thing a while ago. Re-reading that and
Binaryeyes' post has me doing some serious thinking.
I'm against chemicals, but then again, I can be
a blazing hypocrite. I've only tried alcohol, mainly wine.
One night, I actually can say i performed an experiment and
had 3 glasses just to see what it would feel like.
(At home with hubby....we were IN for the night).
Safe to say, I didn't like it. I had trouble typing and
my speech was affected a little. I hated not being in perfect control
of these elementary motor functions. Tim observed me too.
We both didn't like me like that. Never drank that much again.
Went back to a glass now and then. (It calmed me down when
I wanted to hurl my physics book at the wall with an INTENSE initial velocity).
Then I came upon this thread and re-read Kurt's brain hacking page, and
am totally turned off from alcohol. Plus, I've decided to limit my caffeine
intake.
The wine will be no big deal....i was never dependant on it.
Caffeine OTOH, is going to be an adventure. I'm tapering off.
(Oh...the headaches.....)
It's funny....Tim's been telling me how I've been
wrecking my body all the while. (I don't sleep normal hours
or eat as healthily as I used to). Plus, taking time off from Kenpo to
go to college has reduced my exercise. I have a LOT of improvements to make...)
I wish I could say I've never tried anything. but I am very thankful for
this thread. It seriously gave me renewed perspective and slapped
me in the face. I've been justifying myself for too long.
(mmmm.....justification......) ahem.....anyway...
.....on a separate and happier note, Tim talked me into
getting a unicycle. After three days I only need him to hold
my hand a little!
:)
Looking fwd to MUNI,
-Sue
TheCatinTX
(Well... it said "Opinions.")
MzkNvrStpd
>-Sue
Does this mean you're coming to San Francisco and you want to take a long time
to get across town?
On the N Judah to Pac Bell Park,
Jeremy
Arvy
>
> - Kurt
Yeah, me too.
No smoke...
I drink only water.
Lutra
MzkNvrStpd wrote:
> >Looking fwd to MUNI,
> >-Sue
>
> Does this mean you're coming to San Francisco and you want to take a long time
> to get across town?
Heh...guess I should have been more specific.
http://www.unicycling.com/muni/
Interestingly enough, I could still say "yes" to your question.
-Sue
MzkNvrStpd
>-Sue
You can probably get around San Francisco faster on a mountain unicycle than on
the MUNI busses.
In fact, there's a rumor that Kurt wrote all of the material on DBA while
riding the bus from 7th & Clement to Market & Montgomery (about 4 miles).
Walking almost as fast as the bus,
Jeremy
Binaryeyes.
"MzkNvrStpd" <mzknv...@aol.com> wrote
> You can probably get around San Francisco faster on a mountain unicycle
than on
> the MUNI busses.
>
> In fact, there's a rumor that Kurt wrote all of the material on DBA while
> riding the bus from 7th & Clement to Market & Montgomery (about 4 miles).
Jesus. That sounds like the buses here. You know -- the ones that are
always late, and only come 'round every 40 minutes.
Binaryeyes.
Nowhere NEAR California.
Kurt Harland
>
>In fact, there's a rumor that Kurt wrote all of the material on DBA while
>riding the bus from 7th & Clement to Market & Montgomery (about 4 miles).
>
That is SO not true. I wrote it riding that loop the N does around
Embarcadero to CalTrain.
- Kurt
MzkNvrStpd
>always late, and only come 'round every 40 minutes.
>
>Binaryeyes.
Well the busses here aren't late. They schedule them to take forever.
You know, if you want a REAL unicycling sport, come to SF (somehow avoid being
banished to Berkeley) and ride that unicycle along the wires that power the
electric busses. Then we will all declare you a goddess of something or other
and build shrines to honor your greatness, but that mountain stuff isn't
impressing us one bit.
Wondering if they even have mountains in Binaryeyesville,
Jeremy
MzkNvrStpd
>Embarcadero to CalTrain.
>
> - Kurt
Now that it's baseball season, you can ride that train and get some cool
samples of peoples bones being crushed as "just a couple" more fans get
onboard, and startled sounds from people trying not to fall down as the train
jerks back and forth (with occasional falling sounds).
If you're really lucky, you might get a sample of a woman beating the crap out
of a college boy that refused to be chivalrous and give his seat to her.
Mic'ed up and ready to go,
Jeremy
Dog Solitude
four of Heroin, Cocaine, Acid and Ecstacy... I know people who munch 'E'
like it's going out of fashion, but it all scares the shit out of me... I
don't care how trendy they might be, I will never touch anything like that
in my life...
I just stick to the beer and the occasional 'Erbal cigarette but thats it
for me... I don't get drunk that often and soned even less, although when
I do, it's usually full tilt...
--
-----
Check out the [CTRL] website at: http://www.ctrl-music.com
D Nielsen
riding my bicycle. I never though you could fall asleep
while pedali..n....g
Dave...........................................................................
Dog Solitude (dog_so...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: The only thing that really scares me are "Class A's", especially the big
RocknVet
> This is way off subject, but I'm going to ask anyway. I'll get right too
> it.
>
> What is everyones opinion of drinking, and or smoking pot?
>
>
that a little wine is actually good for you. I personally no longer
drink alcohol at all and from a TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine)
point of view (which I'm studying now), it actually can affect your
Essence which affects your lifespan.
As far as drugs go, I've always been anti-drugs, including pot. I do
feel however it should be legalized for medicinal purposes since I
know from firsthand experience that it did decrease my father's (who
had cancer) pain and nausea.
RocknVet
Binaryeyes.
"MzkNvrStpd" <mzknv...@aol.com> wrote
> Wondering if they even have mountains in Binaryeyesville,
> Jeremy
Missouri is the land of unevenly placed hills, Karst topography, and
irritatingly placed slight inclines. The busses in CoMo are gas powered,
and drive at regular speeds, yet they are at once the most reliable and most
unreliable transportation here in town. They're on a 40 minute cycle, with
some of them going to an 80 minute cycle during the day, and they don't run
past seven or so unless it's Thursday, Friday, or Saturday. Also, the
routes are inconsistent, because they don't always come back the way they've
gone -- they'll loop. And these are actually consistently late on weekday
afternoons and weekend mornings, but it's impossible to predict, so you have
to get the stop 10 minutes early, because planning on their tardiness means
that you'll see them pass you. . .from a block away.
Oh well, at least they're cheap. You can see now why we bought a car again.
. .
Binaryeyes.
Who wishes she had the balance for a unicycle. Go Sue!
Squeakerpimps
Binaryeyes. wrote in message ...
MUNI isn't quite like that. It's more like they're supposed to stop by every
10 minutes, but then every 40 minutes 4 busses show up, and then 5 minutes
later a 5th one appears; and you're never quite certain whether the busses
were all just really that late, or if that one was just really early...
-MM & the ME
who caught the 9:47 (or possibly the 10:17) at 10:06 this morning.
o..o o..o
>\/< >\/<
"In the beginning, somebody around here created the chicken and the egg." -
Dave McKean
Freddy Hajas
> This is way off subject, but I'm going to ask anyway. I'll get right too
> it.
>
> What is everyones opinion of drinking, and or smoking pot?
I don't use any kind of drugs, I think is more fun live knowing what
we are doing or listening. :)
Remember that old and famous phrase on almost videogames on the
80's?
"Winners don't use drugs!"
Is funny but I never forgot that. :)
Freddy
MzkNvrStpd
> I don't use any kind of drugs, I think is more fun live knowing what
>we are doing or listening. :)
Freddy, I'm wondering if you tried some drugs and then came to this conclusion,
or if he just decided that that's the way it is.
I'd be willing to bet that you just decided that that's the way it is, because
I've never sampled any substance that caused me to not know what I was doing or
listening to (and I've sampled plenty). Alcohol has brought me the closest to
not knowing what's going on, but never got me all that close to that sort of
oblivion.
I only mention this because I'm all for people's choices to abstain from
controlled substances, but it bothers me when people make comments about the
use of substances that do not reflect reality. I fell it is a disservice to
everyone because it takes the focus off of the real drug issues (health risks,
addiction, financial burden, effects on motivation and prioritization) and puts
the focus on fictional issues (drugs prevent you from knowing what you're doing
or listening to).
Also, the phrase on the video games is quite inaccurate. There are lots of
examples of sober winners and drugged winners in this world. Intoxication and
success are not mutually exclusive.
Ok, I'll get off the soapbox...for now...
Jeremy
@netscape.net Tymm
> "Winners don't use drugs!"
Rock On....
MzkNvrStpd
>10 minutes, but then every 40 minutes 4 busses show up, and then 5 minutes
>later a 5th one appears
And then you get on and they stop every block or two. There should be a six
block minimum between stops. That every block crap sucks and makes the bus
take forever. Taking 45 minutes to go 4 miles just doesn't work for me.
Avoiding MUNI whenever possible,
Jeremy
MzkNvrStpd
Car ownership is the way to go. I don't care how many smug San Franciscans
tell me otherwise.
Wanting to be able to go more than two places in one day,
Jeremy
Rob T Firefly
news:7b0a1fa6.0204...@posting.google.com...
They still had to put that screen on games as recently as the mid 90s, I
think. Apparently, all the arcade loiterers were a bunch of hopeless
burnouts who could only be saved if "Street Fighter II" told them they
sucked.
Fun fact: the FBI director who mandated that games had to put those screens
in, one William S. Sessions
http://www.fbi.gov/fbinbrief/directors/sessions.htm ) often had his name
congealed into "Williams Sessions" by many non-English-speaking Japanese
game companies.
<bitter wage slave> I run an arcade for a living, and I think some of my
customers could really use some excuse for themselves, chemical or
otherwise. </bitter wage slave>
Lutra
Rob T Firefly wrote:
> They still had to put that screen on games as recently as the mid 90s, I
> think. Apparently, all the arcade loiterers were a bunch of hopeless
> burnouts who could only be saved if "Street Fighter II" told them they
> sucked.
Nah....they prolly stopped caring about the kids using drugs around the mid
80's.......the message is just permanently burned into the screen and most
places
are too cheap to get new ones.
Conversely, maybe they are going for the subliminal edge,
and are purposely making the anti-drug message appear in a ghostly
afterimage.
Ohhhhh.........sneeeeeaky.......
-Sue
Lutra
Tymm wrote:
> > "Winners don't use drugs!"
>
> Rock On....
See?!?!
Street Fighter II through XIV helped develop this fine young
man's character. He's always been drug free, and grew up
to kick ass for a living.
Gonna burn some muscle!
(I hate that phrase.....)
-Sue
Freddy Hajas
> >we are doing or listening. :)
>
> Freddy, I'm wondering if you tried some drugs and then came to this conclusion,
> or if he just decided that that's the way it is.
I only tried Alcohol, in fact I only drunk because don't had
anything than that at the time, and I really hate it. :)
I don't use drugs, but I have friends that do, somes a lot.
Almost Alcohol, and somes other more hard.
So they get crazy and start to do somethings really bad, like vomit
yourself or make shit in his pants, this guys are knowing what they
are doing? I don't believe that someone could do that for his own
decision.
"Today I'll vomit myself and make shit in my pants! Cool!"
I'll never believe in that.
And the truth is that all kind of drugs is only used to make you do
something that you'll never do without them, maybe give you courage or
anything like that.
My friends used to got courage to invite girls, and be "funny". But I
never need anything for that.
> Also, the phrase on the video games is quite inaccurate. There are lots of
> examples of sober winners and drugged winners in this world. Intoxication and
> success are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah, are many examples of someone who WON with drugs, but not a
winner.
Pelé is a winner, 3 times world cup champion, now is a world
celebrity, respected and a big manager having lots of companies.
Maradona only Won sometimes, was an excellent player from Argentina,
maybe is only number 2 because the drugs. Now is very fat in a drug
clinic, and spent all his fortune in drugs handlings.
that's the difference. :)
Freddy
Freddy Hajas
> think. Apparently, all the arcade loiterers were a bunch of hopeless
> burnouts who could only be saved if "Street Fighter II" told them they
> sucked.
Aside I never like "Street Fighter II", I always hate this kind of
fight games, I like fight games that you really fight, and not shot
fireballs or something, Double Dragon and Pit Fighter were great at
that time. Good times! :)
Is good that they put that screen on games recently. I hope that they
still making propagand against drugs forever.
Freddy
MzkNvrStpd
>
>So they get crazy and start to do somethings really bad, like vomit
>yourself or make shit in his pants, this guys are knowing what they
>are doing?
Vomiting on one's self is typical only of alcohol, and I've not yet heard of
anything that typically causes people to crap in their pants, however, I
suspect that was alcohol related as well. Either case would be a sign of
overuse.
>And the truth is that all kind of drugs is only used to make you do
>something that you'll never do without them, maybe give you courage or
>anything like that.
This is not at all accurate. Again, you're describing something typical of
alcohol. While a few drugs other than alcohol have effects on inhibition, that
does not describe "all" or even a majority, and even in those cases, the
purpose in taking them is not normally to gain a new behavior.
Anyone who takes drugs because they think it will give them some special new
power is a fool.
>Yeah, are many examples of someone who WON with drugs, but not a
>winner...
>Pelé is a winner...
>Maradona only Won sometimes
The Beatles are winners. They set the standard for pop songwriting, and have
influenced a vast majority of the musicians in western culture. Most people
agree that their best albums came from the years they were getting high.
The Grateful Dead are winners. They were the top earning touring band in the
US for most of the late 80's through the mid-90's and have sold over a hundred
million records and built a massive merchandising empire that continues to rake
in millions of dollars 7 years after the band's end. They were together for
over 30 years, something very few bands have managed. The name "Grateful Dead"
is almost synonymous with "drug use" yet their success has exceeded that of
Pele and all of his teammates.
I'm not saying drugs don't cause problems for some people, because they do.
There are lots of losers on drugs, just as there are winners, and people in the
middle ground.
I'm just saying that it isn't a good idea to talk about the effects of alcohol
and apply those effects to all other drugs. That's like saying all food gives
us heart attacks based on the cholesterol levels in bacon. Drugs, like food,
all have their own characteristics, benefits, and downfalls, and should be
treated as such in order to have a healthy discussion about them.
See what happens when people ask for opinions?!?!?!? :)
Jeremy
Freddy Hajas
> >yourself or make shit in his pants, this guys are knowing what they
> >are doing?
>
> Vomiting on one's self is typical only of alcohol, and I've not yet heard of
> anything that typically causes people to crap in their pants, however, I
> suspect that was alcohol related as well. Either case would be a sign of
> overuse.
that each drug have his own effects.
> The Beatles are winners. They set the standard for pop songwriting, and have
> influenced a vast majority of the musicians in western culture. Most people
> agree that their best albums came from the years they were getting high.
do you believe in that? Beatles were already dead and lost when John
Lenon was murdered. The band were very bad in anything on the end,
they are too crazy do to something really good like the beginning. Of
course real fans will love anything came from they, but I don't.
> The Grateful Dead are winners. They were the top earning touring band in the
The Grateful what? heheh :)
I only knew the band for the name and nothing more, in Rock the
almost public agree with drugs, and really enjoy to use drugs and that
his idol kill himself iwith overdoses. So if you do what they want to
do, say what they want to say is easy... :)
Sex, Drugs & Rock 'n Roll is a something that doesn't make sense to
me, I prefer Sex, SWOS & SynthPop. :)
> is almost synonymous with "drug use" yet their success has exceeded that of
> Pele and all of his teammates.
I don't know that band, you probally leave in US to say that. :)
The full world play Soccer and until you there in US where Soccer is
almost underground, aside after Pelé went there US are getting better
in each day.
Soccer are and still the most popular game in the world. :)
What I remember, Pelé is in guiness book or other book like that,
with the most popular man in the world. Until your Bill Clinto come
here to know Pelé.
Any president of any country come to there to meet any Rock band? I
don't believe. :)
> I'm not saying drugs don't cause problems for some people, because they do.
> There are lots of losers on drugs, just as there are winners, and people in the
> middle ground.
I'll never agree with that, Greatful Dead could be a winner to
yourself, but probaly they are losers to hisself today aside all the
money.
> I'm just saying that it isn't a good idea to talk about the effects of alcohol
> and apply those effects to all other drugs. That's like saying all food gives
> us heart attacks based on the cholesterol levels in bacon. Drugs, like food,
> all have their own characteristics, benefits, and downfalls2, and should be
> treated as such in order to have a healthy discussion about them.
Sure, we are talking about drugs, and I gave you an exemple with
alcohol, I think the first drug that all use. I only said the step #1.
:)
> See what happens when people ask for opinions?!?!?!? :)
Yeah! so many words and so many different opinions. :)
Is better we forgot all that crap! :)
Freddy
MzkNvrStpd
will end up debating this stuff forever.
One thing is for sure, you don't have to seel me on soccer. I grew up playing
soccer, and while I am not Pele, I do understand the sport and its worldwide
significance.
while(1)
{
Debate();
}
Jeremy
Freddy Hajas
> Well Freddy, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Otherwise we
> will end up debating this stuff forever.
sure! let's forget it! :)
> One thing is for sure, you don't have to seel me on soccer. I grew up playing
> soccer, and while I am not Pele, I do understand the sport and its worldwide
> significance.
Ok, ok... so you see Pele in Portugal this wednesday! :)
Freddy