Lets talk about the band's music-new and old'
YOGA POSES
the music they are putting out lately is up to their full potential? Do you
think the band is being managed correctly? I don't care what color underwear
they are wearing I just want to talk about their music and where they are
headed! Please E-mail and lets talk.
Thanks,
Robert.
Ulli Stemmeler
forum).
I think they are not at there highest level. Well, I was a fan of
Chicago in the early seventies, I haven´t heard much of what they did
later (after the eighth album). Now I heard some sound clips of their
new christmas album. It sounds like a group with a big capacity doing
stupid stuff. OK, to me, christmas songs are not what I do expect.
I prefer their own things as they did in earlier times.
Maybe I can still find out some good compositions they did after the 8th
album...
Ulli Stemmeler
Lingener Str. 6
D-48155 Münster
Germany/Alemania/Alemanha
-----------
eMail: UlliSt...@t-online.de
Tel: +49-251-65418
Fax: +49-251-65495
Homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/ullistemmeler
Dave Ellis
I started with '17' and moved up as they did. When they did '18' with a
remake of 25or6to4, I decided to borrow 'Greatest Hits' from the library and
give the original a listen. I hated it. Hated the whole album. Of course,
I was only 18, and stupid. Now I have it on CD, tape, and I think on vinyl,
if I'm not mistaken. I've grown to appreciate the old, and very old, that
they have accomplished, and I have also learned to respect the new sounds
that they try to produce, as only a successful band can do (ie. Guns 'n
Roses, same shit, different pile).
It is true, that their last dozen albums have been a major disappointment,
not only to the diehard '70s fans, but to the late bloomers such as myself.
SOS, Night and Day, and XXV have all come to good reviews, but Heart of
Chicago? Come on.
(My theory of Heart of Chicago is that they released those two, only to get
the Christmas album numbered XXV. That's probably a lame theory, and a
couple million people have probably come up with it, but I'm the first to
post, as far as I know!!!)
Not to much else to say. Let's let others talk.
Maybe we fans need to congregate in a chat room once in a while and discuss
things live.
--
Dave
"He's going to smell like hot dogs!"
--Ralph Wiggums
YOGA POSES wrote in message <19990114130306...@ng10.aol.com>...
:Anyone down to exchange thoughts about the music of Chicago? I am. Do you
harlaid
Chicago of the 70's to rank as a major rock band, from their killer cover
of "I'm The Man" to the pure power of "Old Days". These songs made it as
easily for me to listen to Chicago, Led Zeppelin, and Aerosmith in the same
sitting.
The 80's are marked by the band relying on many studio writers to come up
with love ballads that would score big on the charts. I had grown away from
the band and this point, prefering to listen to the New Wave of Heavy Metal
and some of the electronic bands that punctuated that decade. Today I
continue to seek out new rock, but unfortunatley, Chicago, has not been in
the rock arena for some time.
Mike
Ulli Stemmeler
When I started to disllike those "lovesongs" chicago later started to
produce I wasn´t moving to "harder rock" but to jazz.
This began after the release of Chicago 7 in 74, when I was 16 years
old.
Later, when I heard songs of chicago somebody had to tell me who they
are (I couldn´t recocognize them beside the voice of P. Cetera).
To me the best album they ever made is Chicago 3, especially the first 2
tunes (Sing A Mean Tune Kid & Loneliness Is Just A Word, also the last
tunes > The Approaching Storm etc.). I liked (and I do like nowadays
too) the guitar of Terry Kath, the solos and the rhythm things as well.
The "new discovery" to me was the 8th album I found in a local record
store some weeks ago. To me, there are still some 3 or 4 good tunes on
it.
Should I try the later ones too ?? (Maybe, one chicago record for three
months until I find that they are with too much sugar in one).
It is interesting to read that poeple discovering Chicago much later
have similar thoughts about their latest releases (Chistmas, NIght &
Day). As a musician I should say "give them the chance to change and
develope new things in their music". But, if I don´t like it, what does
it matter ???
harlaid
from thier web page.
The 1st two albums look great. I am not familiar with anything on the 3rd
disc,
(I will have to investigate this one).
The 4th album (Live) looks hot,
Number 5 looks good.
The 6th album features one of my favorite Chicago tracks, "Feelin Stronger
Everyday"
The 7th album I must get with Searchin So Long, Wishing You Were Here and
Call On Me, this looks great!
I'm ready to get the first 8 albums. I am a big fan of the song Old Days on
the 8th album but I am unfamiliar with the other tracks. ( Uli a regular
visitor to this group) recommend this disc to me so more investigation awaits.
My first Chicago album was the 9th album, the Greatest Hits package.
The 10th album looks interesting with Another Rainy Day in NYC, If You Leave
Me Now
Just about every album has a huge hit on it. It's really amazing for me to
look through all the albums listed at their web site and see the wealth of
music they were responsible for.
The 11th album looks good
The 12th album is called Hot Streets and features Alive Again and No Tell
Lover. What is unusual about this album's listing on the net is their are
NO liner notes available for viewing. Each of the previous albums I have
looked at had very comprehensive notes, credits, players, lyrics,
everything.
I am wondering if this is the album where sales fell off for them. I seem
to remember seeing this album in many stores but I'm wondering now if they
the copies that I kept seeing were sitting in delete bins. I think this is
the first album without Kath. As I look at the albums after this I am
realizing how important he was as a writer.
Here I am at Chicago 13, back to the roman numeral system. Maynard
Ferguson--Trumpet on "Street Player". I am wondering what this album is
like. I am not familiar with anything on it.
Chicago 14 is unfamiliar to me.
The 15th album is another greatest hits package.
The 16th album is yet another Greatest Hits package called If You Leave Me
Now. I think Kath took the band with him.
The 17th album is called Group Portrait and it's an elaborate Greatest Hits
Package with one previously unreleased track.
At this point Robert Lamm did two solo albums.
The next Chicago album listed is a live set recorded in Japan in 1972. I think
this is out of sequence.
Chicago 16 is the arrival of their second wind using studio writers and
rolling out the formula ballads that I don't care for.
Chicago 17 is here! The only time I saw them live, they played to about 10
thousand at Northlands Coliseum in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.. More formula
hits for preppy kids and and love starved secretaries. Both the 16 and 17
CD's got them the hits they were looking for and gave the band an image of
being another Air Supply.
Chicago 18, I don't know this stuff. Look here they have taken to
re-recording their older songs, Whoopee! A new version(?) of 25 or 6 two 4.
Why?
Chicago 19 more 80's Chicago
Another Greatest hits package follows Chicago 19 is their hits from 1982 to
1989. Huge hits but more a recap of the 80's formula.
I don't know how much of this Cetera is on.
I am unfamiliar with anything on Chicago 21.
Night and Day is the next album which is a tribute to Big Bands.
Well I hope I haven't bored you, but in my opinion I would purchase the
first 11 albums and call it a day.
Mike Hardy
Eric Thomas
Chicago album are imbedded within the text below. These are MY opinions, so
please don't flame me if you disagree...
- Eric Thomas
harlaid wrote in message <36A21397...@total.net>...
>
>The 1st two albums look great. I am not familiar with anything on the 3rd
>disc,
>(I will have to investigate this one).
>
The 1st album is a must if you are a fan of Terry Kath. Lots of guitar
solos. Chicago 2 and 3 are not as strong IMO. Put the two of them together
and you would have one GREAT album.
>The 4th album (Live) looks hot,
This is possibly the worst live album I've ever heard! Even members of the
band have been quoted frequently that the album is crap. Get Chicago live
in Japan instead.
>
>Number 5 looks good.
Five is a great album. Probably my 2nd favorite Chicago album. I'm
particularly fond of "State of the Union".
>
>The 6th album features one of my favorite Chicago tracks, "Feelin Stronger
>Everyday"
6 is another good album. It wasn't one of my favorites, but I like it a lot
now.
>
>The 7th album I must get with Searchin So Long, Wishing You Were Here and
>Call On Me, this looks great!
This is my favorite Chicago album. Much jazzier than the previous albums
with lots of solos. Great stuff.
>
>I'm ready to get the first 8 albums. I am a big fan of the song Old Days
on
>the 8th album but I am unfamiliar with the other tracks. ( Uli a regular
>visitor to this group) recommend this disc to me so more investigation
awaits.
>
8 is a very uneven album. Terry Kath's Hendrix influence really shows on
"Thank you great spirit". This was the first Chicago album I bought new
when it came out.
>My first Chicago album was the 9th album, the Greatest Hits package.
>
>The 10th album looks interesting with Another Rainy Day in NYC, If You
Leave
>Me Now
I like 10 despite the fact that it has "If you leave me now" which I really
hate. It has some funky stuff.
>
>Just about every album has a huge hit on it. It's really amazing for me to
>look through all the albums listed at their web site and see the wealth of
>music they were responsible for.
>
>The 11th album looks good
11 has some good songs, but it's another uneven album IMO. Not one of my
favorites.
>
>The 12th album is called Hot Streets and features Alive Again and No Tell
>Lover. What is unusual about this album's listing on the net is their are
>NO liner notes available for viewing. Each of the previous albums I have
>looked at had very comprehensive notes, credits, players, lyrics,
>everything.
>
>I am wondering if this is the album where sales fell off for them. I seem
>to remember seeing this album in many stores but I'm wondering now if they
>the copies that I kept seeing were sitting in delete bins. I think this is
>the first album without Kath. As I look at the albums after this I am
>realizing how important he was as a writer.
>
"Hot Streets" was a huge hit. Donnie Dacus replaced Terry Kath. This is
another one of my personal favorite Chicago albums.
>Here I am at Chicago 13, back to the roman numeral system. Maynard
>Ferguson--Trumpet on "Street Player". I am wondering what this album is
>like. I am not familiar with anything on it.
Another uneven album. Not one of my favorites. Donnie Dacus left after
this album.
>
>Chicago 14 is unfamiliar to me.
Has some good songs. Chris Pinnick handles the guitar duties. The last
Chicago album before the 80's pop formula albums start.
>
>The 15th album is another greatest hits package.
>
>The 16th album is yet another Greatest Hits package called If You Leave Me
>Now. I think Kath took the band with him.
>
>The 17th album is called Group Portrait and it's an elaborate Greatest Hits
>Package with one previously unreleased track.
"Group Portrait" actually came out much later. It's a box set released with
only material from the Columbia years.
>
>At this point Robert Lamm did two solo albums.
>
>The next Chicago album listed is a live set recorded in Japan in 1972. I
think
>this is out of sequence.
It was released in Japan in 1972 and was only available as an import in the
USA. It was released on CD in the USA a few years ago.
>
>Chicago 16 is the arrival of their second wind using studio writers and
>rolling out the formula ballads that I don't care for.
Yes, the beginning if the formula ballads... It's disposable pop music.
Not one of my favorites.
>
>Chicago 17 is here! The only time I saw them live, they played to about 10
>thousand at Northlands Coliseum in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.. More
formula
>hits for preppy kids and and love starved secretaries. Both the 16 and 17
>CD's got them the hits they were looking for and gave the band an image of
>being another Air Supply.
>
Some story as 16. Disposable pop, but there is some good pop songwriting.
I like "We can stop the hurting".
>Chicago 18, I don't know this stuff. Look here they have taken to
>re-recording their older songs, Whoopee! A new version(?) of 25 or 6 two
4.
>Why?
That's a terrible version of "25 or 6 to 4". This is the first album with
Jason Scheff replacing Peter Cetera. Definitely worse than 16 and 17, IMO.
I can't even think of one song that I like.
>
>Chicago 19 more 80's Chicago
>
I like "Victorious", thats about it. "I stand up" is fake R&B in the Steve
Winwood mold. DeWayne Baley is without a doubt my least favorite Chicago
guitarist.
>Another Greatest hits package follows Chicago 19 is their hits from 1982 to
>1989. Huge hits but more a recap of the 80's formula.
>
>I don't know how much of this Cetera is on.
Cetera left after 17.
>
>I am unfamiliar with anything on Chicago 21.
Possible their worst album IMO. Just as bad as 18.
>
>Night and Day is the next album which is a tribute to Big Bands.
>
Which is also a return to some of the things that made them a great band. I
like this album. At least there are a few solos from the horn players, and
DeWayne Bailey is gone. I never thought his guitar playing fit in with the
band, particularly live.
Who is the guitarist that toured with them on the "Night and Day" tour? I
like his style. Is he still with them?
>Well I hope I haven't bored you, but in my opinion I would purchase the
>first 11 albums and call it a day.
>
I would consider getting "Night and Day" also.
>
>Mike Hardy
>
Mjoann
> >The 4th album (Live) looks hot,
>
> This is possibly the worst live album I've ever heard! Even members of the
> band have been quoted frequently that the album is crap. Get Chicago live
> in Japan instead.
>
The band members have said many horrible things about Live at Carnegie
Hall, but Robert once stated something to the effect of it is good in
that it is a documentary of what happened. I like IV for the fact that
although the sound was horrible, the raw energy comes through. The band
members' comments and sound effects say a lot about what they were like
in that era. For instance the comments on Vietnam, pollution, Nixon etc.
give a very clear picture of how the young people of that time felt. I
wasn't around in 1971, but Carnegie Hall gives me an idea of what
feelings were in the air. Not to mention the interesting slang words
that were popular back then! I like IV for its historical signifigance.
James L. Townsend
I've been a fan of Chicago for at least 20 years, particularly of their early
material. I've never seen them live. My first exposure to the group was the
Chicago Transit Authority album and later the first greatest hits disc (Chicago
IX), Chicago X, and Chicago XI (all on LP and 8-track). I later got Chicago 16
and 17 on LP. When I switched over to CDs after purchasing my first CD changer
(a Sony CDP-C50) on July 4, 1988, I bought some of those same albums on CD (CTA,
Hot Streets, all three of the original hits collections, At Carnegie Hall). I
haven't listened to anything they've done since 1989, so I can't comment on
Twenty-1, Night and Day, or the Christmas CD. I believe that the ballads on 16
and 17 are certainly not the caliber of their early music, and it appears to
many folks on this newsgroup that things really went downhill after Cetera
left. Heart of Chicago is merely another (yawn) hits collection. Perhaps the
band's appearance on Dick Clark's New Year's Rappin' Eve was a token to us aging
baby boomers (I'm 35). Just my $.02,
Jim
CRMorris88
at least check out the groups 1995 NIGHT AND DAY cd...i think you'll be
pleasantly surprised..also, give a listen to Bill Champlin's solo CD's. you'd
be pleased with the results...
peace
chris
Eric Thomas
decline with the arrival of Champlin and assumed that his solo CD's would be
more of the same. Can you recommend the best one?
- Eric Thomas
CRMorris88 wrote in message
<19990117223748...@ng-fd1.aol.com>...
Renalien2
Champlin's solo CD Mayday (live) and The Sons of Champlin - Live as good places
to start.
Renee
John Wiklund
>
I'd agree, at least based on the fact I have "Burn Down the Night" and
"Through it All" and they are both excellent.
Shine on!
--
John Wiklund
"Strangers passing in the street,
by chance two separate glances meet,
and I am you and what I see is me."
-Pink Floyd, "Echoes"
CHI91111
>I don't know if Chris will agree with me or not, but I would recommend Bill
>Champlin's solo CD Mayday (live) and The Sons of Champlin - Live as good
>places
>to start.
ANY Champlin disc is a "good place to start"
Mark
Gene on Long Island
>Eric Thomas wrote:
>> >The 4th album (Live) looks hot,
>>
>> This is possibly the worst live album I've ever heard! Even members of the
>> band have been quoted frequently that the album is crap. Get Chicago live
>> in Japan instead.
>>
>
>
>Hall, but Robert once stated something to the effect of it is good in
>that it is a documentary of what happened. I like IV for the fact that
>although the sound was horrible, the raw energy comes through. The band
>members' comments and sound effects say a lot about what they were like
>in that era. For instance the comments on Vietnam, pollution, Nixon etc.
>give a very clear picture of how the young people of that time felt. I
>wasn't around in 1971, but Carnegie Hall gives me an idea of what
>feelings were in the air. Not to mention the interesting slang words
>that were popular back then! I like IV for its historical signifigance.
The biggest problem with Carnegie Hall, as quoted somewhere from James Pankow,
is not in the performances, its in the recording quality. I remember reading
an interview with him, and he echoed my sentiments... it sounds like the horn
players are playing kazoos. The recording is just a poor quality. This
interview was about two years after the album came out, and I remember him
referencing a record that they had put out in japan only, recorded on tour
over there, that was vastly superior to the Carnegie Hall effort, mostly
becuase of the quality of the recording. He went on and on about how well
recorded the Japanese album was, the superior equipment used, and he really
ragged on how poorly done the Carnegie Hall album was. That was how I found
out, back in the mid 70's, about the Live In Japan album, that I finally
found in an import bin around 1977 for $40.. and I jumped all over it! And
Pankow was right.. it was much better!
-gene
bigj...@my-dejanews.com
> the Christmas album numbered XXV. That's probably a lame theory, and a
> couple million people have probably come up with it, but I'm the first to
> post, as far as I know!!!)
Dave and all,
If you will check out Heart of Chicago thoroughly, you will find that except
for the new material on both cd's, everything else was digitally re-mastered.
The remastering had only analog originals to deal with, but even that makes
an awesome remix. Listen closely to the CD, or tape, and you will hear
Chicago as you never heard them on vinyl, or even on an analog mixed CD.
My opinion, FWIW, very much worth the purchase. I wish they would do the same
with all thier older stuff.
As for some of the comments about the Carnigie Hall album, I also find it
very much worth the purchase, if only for "Ballet for a Girl in Buchanon",
and Bob's piano solo on the intro to "Does Anyone Know What Time it is?".
Mail to bigj...@my-dejanews.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Mark Rathwell
> The biggest problem with Carnegie Hall, as quoted somewhere from James Pankow,
> is not in the performances, its in the recording quality.
Don't totally agree there. The band sounds drunk/stoned and it shows on
many tunes. Interestingly, both Terry and Peter do good jobs on their
instruments BUT turn in HORRID vocal performances.
Mark
--
Mark Rathwell av...@freenet.carleton.ca
Visit "The Incredible Hulk" television series web-site
http://www.freenet.carleton.ca/~av999/Hulk.html
Dave Ellis
:DeWayne Baley is without a doubt my least favorite Chicago
:guitarist.
Agreed. One hundred percent!
:At least there are a few solos from the horn players, and
:DeWayne Bailey is gone. I never thought his guitar playing fit in with the
:band, particularly live.
:
:Who is the guitarist that toured with them on the "Night and Day" tour? I
:like his style. Is he still with them?
Name, don't know, but there will be others that do.
Awesome. Agreed, One hundred and ten percent!
Mjoann
> :Who is the guitarist that toured with them on the "Night and Day" tour? I
> :like his style. Is he still with them?
>
Keith Howland, but he's not the one who played on the album!
Eric Thomas
Chicago on the "Night and Day" tour and I really enjoyed both his tone and
his playing. His style really fit in well with the band, IMO.
- Eric Thomas
Mjoann wrote in message <36A539AE...@megsinet.net>...
>Dave Ellis wrote:
>
>> :Who is the guitarist that toured with them on the "Night and Day" tour?
I
>> :like his style. Is he still with them?
>>
>
>
Mjoann
>
> So is Keith still with them? Did he play on the Christmas Album? We saw
> Chicago on the "Night and Day" tour and I really enjoyed both his tone and
> his playing. His style really fit in well with the band, IMO.
>
Yes, Keith is still around, and he did play guitar, piano, and sing
background vocals on the Christmas album. I like him a lot too. Dawayne
is talented, but just not Chicago. Plus, some would say that Keith is
quite attractive;)
CRMorris88
listens.
dawayne actually had an opinion...and cared about the state of chicago which is
why he cared so much about the SOS album and contributed 2 songs to it.
dawayne was the man for chicago. he brought a different flavor to the mix.
thats good in a band.
peace
chris
Tinger
Better End Soon." Terry is incredible on this tune. Yes the recording
quality is weak, but not any worse than some of the other live shows I have
heard. They are all musical timestamps.
Tinger
bigj...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<782n68$giu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Marc Greis
> I've never heard any of Champlin's solo CD's. I always associated their
> decline with the arrival of Champlin and assumed that his solo CD's would be
> more of the same. Can you recommend the best one?
If you're talking about how Chicago "mellowed" in the 80's, you
shouldn't associate that with Champlin's arrival, but with Foster's
arrival and with Cetera's stronger influence. I think Bill is of all
Chicago members the one who dislikes that trend the most.
However, it's nearly impossible to recommend a Champlin solo CD to
another Chicago fan without knowing what other music he likes. In fact,
I usually think it's pretty silly to recommend Champlin's solo work to
Chicago fans in general, because the style of his music has NOTHING to
do with Chicago's style. I don't like Bill Champlin's solo stuff
because he's a Chicago member, but because he makes good music in
general. However, it would be weird to assume that all Chicago fans are
going to like his music.
Anyway, some general recommendations:
"Single": Perhaps my favorite Champlin solo album. Produced in 1978 (I
hope I am right, I don't have the CDs with me) with *all* original Toto
members, plus people like Jay Graydon, etc. If you like Toto's first
album, you're going to like that album too.
"Burn down the Night" (I think released in 1993, not sure): I just
started listening to that one again after certainly more than a year.
Some really great songs on that one, also some great studio
musicians (George Hawkins on all songs except one song where Abe
Labroriel takes over, Tris Imboden on the drums, Greg Mathieson on
keyboard and as co-producer, Bruce Gaitsch, Steve Lukather on guitar,
Joseph Williams background vocals, etc., etc.). Some very good vocals,
good arrangement/production. Also one tune called "Same Old Song"
which is very obviously connected to Chicago's situation.
"Through it All" (released in 1996 I think): Bill re-recorded some hits
for that album that he had written for other people, like the Grammy-
winning "Turn Your Love around", or "I Must Have Been A Fool" from Al
Jarreau's "Heart's Horizon", "Proud of Your Blindness" from "Stone of
Sysiphus". Additionally, he wrote some new songs, most notably "Little
Sister", which seems to be a fan favorite with great vocals and really
strong horns. But again, don't expect Chicago-esque horns on any of his
recordings. Think Soul/R'n'B and you know what to expect.
Marc
--
Marc Greis gr...@cs.uni-bonn.de
Jerry
wrote:
>Eric Thomas <eth...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>> I've never heard any of Champlin's solo CD's. I always associated their
>> decline with the arrival of Champlin and assumed that his solo CD's would be
>> more of the same. Can you recommend the best one?
>
>If you're talking about how Chicago "mellowed" in the 80's, you
>shouldn't associate that with Champlin's arrival, but with Foster's
>arrival and with Cetera's stronger influence. I think Bill is of all
>Chicago members the one who dislikes that trend the most.
It is interesting to note that David Foster brought Champlin in to
Chicago. Bill worked with Foster on the Earth Wind & Fire album "I
Am" and if I am not mistaken, Champlin, Foster and Maurice White
co-wrote EW&F's "After The Love is Gone" from that album. Listen to
the background vocals especially near the end of the song and I swear
you can hear Champlin's voice singing backup.
My own opinion of Champlin's arrival is that it helped Chicago. I am
no fan of the syrupy stuff they produced, but his voice brought an
earthy feel to the music, and his musicianship strengthened the group.
He, Pankow, and Lamm could probably kick out some really strong music
if they get along together and if the record execs would disappear.
Jerry
Frank Mercogliano
the big West Coacst scene. Seraphine had a hand in bringing Foster in, who was
thought of as a producer of XIV before Tom Dowd was brought in.
--
Frank Mercogliano
Director of Sports Information
Idaho State University
Holt Arena, Suite 1
P.O. Box 8173
Pocatello, ID 83209
--------------------------
(O) 208-236-2621
(H) 208-234-0755
(F) 208-236-3659
http://www.isu.edu/athletic
--------------------------
"To be is to do"-Descartes
"To do is to be"-Voltaire
"Do be do be do"-Sinatra
Mjoann
> It is interesting to note that David Foster brought Champlin in to
> Chicago.
I thought Danny brought in Bill. Or did Danny bring David who brought
Bill? I'd like to believe it was Danny, because everything else David
Foster brought was very BAD for Chicago. Its hard to believe he'd
actually do something good like finding Bill...
Archie Leach
[...]
> The 10th album looks interesting with Another
> Rainy Day in NYC, If You Leave Me Now
Have that on vinyl.
First time I listened to it, other than the 2 big hits, I just hated the
thing.
And I hated it the second or third time...
But, somehow......it grew on me. Now I like the whole album.
I wish I had more Chicago selections in my collection besides X and
Greatest Hits Vol I. (by the way, on vinyl, disc and tape.)
They did come up with some clinkers in their 70's heyday (especially the
projects that got a little too artsy). But they also came up with just
tons of good stuff.
In my life I must have listened to the greatest hits vol I. at least
three hundred times while pining for lost loves.
(And, generally when I was in college, pining while taking a toke on the
bong or two to relieve the heart break)
And, hey. Amazing that [good] Chicago's just as cool to listen to while
stoned.
Anyone else have any stoned Chicago-listening memories?
Archie Leach
****************************
MORE WIT FROM ALT.FLAME'S 6TH WORST FLAMER IN 1998, XIXIXLEZIT:
In article <756i3q$sbg$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
xixix...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
how literate of, and no the sarcasm wasnt lost on me, just wasnt very
good is all, wretch boy.....
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AND NOW, A LOCK FOR AUTOFLAME OF THE YEAR IN THE 1999 ALT.FLAME AWARDS
POLL:
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In article <75b76v$oru$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
xixix...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
[...]
there are days I amlost
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I'll bet you all won't be able to figure out who wrote this little gem,
now....
"noi... as always I have no ties to the HFW, we just to seem the same
playthings... "
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What happened to my .sig?
No matter. You're still sending psychic messages to the Space Buddhas
to show up on 2 February 1999. Thank you.
CHI91111
>Foster brought was very BAD for Chicago. Its hard to believe he'd
>actually do something good like finding Bill...
I think Seraphine brought Champlin in......As for Foster? Well he may have been
good for them commercially on the short term, but he destroyed them
artistically and damaged their long range viabillity by 'watering' down their
sound and cementing their image as a MOR ballad band.
Mark
Jerry
Thanks for straightening me out on who brought Champlin in. I knew
Foster and Champlin worked together before Chicago, so when they both
appeared on a Chicago album at the same time, I assumed Foster, as
producer, brought in Champlin.
I heard an interview with Foster last year on a United Airlines
flight, and he talked about his "success" with Chicago. One of the
things he mentioned was that when he first met the band, they gave him
the songs they wrote for the next album. Foster listened to the songs
and told the band to drop them. He said he then played for Chicago
their own earlier albums and told them that was the sound he was going
to bring back. Hmmmmm.... it was definitely a different sound than
Chicago had for the 2 pre- Foster albums, but it was not vintage
Chicago. At least some of the songs had the horn section in the
background on Foster produced albums, but the Foster era was a long
way from the early Chicago stuff.
Can't argue with commercial success though - it is still a business.
But I would much rather listen to "Happy Man" as a ballad instead of
"Look Away".
And yes, I am still a fan of the band. Even the syrupy stuff is
better than most pop stuff of other groups. Of course Steely Dan is
supposed to have a new studio album this year, so I hope they return
with a strong CD.
Jerry
Mark Barnes
>>As for some of the comments about the Carnigie Hall album, I also find it
>>very much worth the purchase, if only for "Ballet for a Girl in Buchanon",
>>and Bob's piano solo on the intro to "Does Anyone Know What Time it is?".
>>
>>
>>
>>Mail to bigj...@my-dejanews.com
I boght this 4 record set about a billion years ago and I played the grooves
off all four albums!
I agree that "Ballet For a Girl in Buchanon" is the best piece on the set.
I also appreciate the piano solo before "Does Anyone...." And I sort of
appreciate, "A Song For Richard...." It's interestng to hear the political
views about Nixon then and listen to the CNN version today (HA!)
If you're a piano player, or you really appreciate instrumentals, I
recommend the intro to "Does Anyone...."
Thanks for listening!
Mark
Mark Barnes
Archie Leach wrote in message
<11378-36...@newsd-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
harlaid wrote:
[...]
> The 10th album looks interesting with Another
> Rainy Day in NYC, If You Leave Me Now
Have that on vinyl.
First time I listened to it, other than the 2 big hits, I just hated the
thing.
And I hated it the second or third time...
But, somehow......it grew on me. Now I like the whole album.
Gotta say, what I liked about Chicago X when it came out---- I believe, and
I can't be sure all these many years later, but I think it was the first
album that Lee Loughnane and Jimmy Pankow got to sing lead vocals. GEEZE I
played the He-- outta those two songs. I found them really interesting. I
especially liked, "You Are On My Mind", words and lead vocal by Pankow.
Just to think back to then-- I can't tell you how many of my friends, me
included, wanted to grow up to be James Pankow! Wow!
Nice memories!
Thanks for listening!
Mark
Dave Ellis
Mjoann wrote in message <36A8ADE5...@megsinet.net>...
:I thought Danny brought in Bill. Or did Danny bring David who brought
:Bill? I'd like to believe it was Danny, because everything else David
:Foster brought was very BAD for Chicago. Its hard to believe he'd
:actually do something good like finding Bill...
Way to go. Let's slam the Canadian. Everyone knows that nothing good comes
out of Canada anyway, right?
By the way, one of the worst MOR songs that propelled the band into
international recognition was "If you Leave me Now", which my wife still
cries to once in a while.
Foster wasn't even around for that one.
Just goes to show that Chicago can, all by themselves, come up with a syrupy
hit tune to appease the commercial giants and make a ton of cash.
Mjoann
a BAD thing, and David encouraged it, then took it to another level of
horror.
Mark Rathwell
> By the way, one of the worst MOR songs that propelled the band into
> international recognition was "If you Leave me Now", which my wife still
> cries to once in a while.
>
> Foster wasn't even around for that one.
But back then, that was one of multiple types of music that Chicago came
up with. I don't mind the syrupy ballad (which actually started with
"Colour My World", BTW) as long as it's mixed in with other things. By the
time Chicago got to 19, they were totally into a "pop" groove, largely
driven by outside writers.
Mark Rathwell
> Not Chicago, that was all Peter's fault! Same with BWABS. Peter started
> a BAD thing, and David encouraged it, then took it to another level of
> horror.
Uhh ... bullshit. Pankow started the ballad thing in 1970 with "Colour My
World." Foster really popularized it and then Chicago never left it alone.
Mjoann
CHI91111
>"Colour My World", BTW) as long as it's mixed in with other things
Whoa, wait a minute Mark. True, "Colour My World" was the first ballad and was
subsequently followed by "Just You 'n' Me" and "I've Been Searchin' So Long",
but these songs were well crafted and sophisticated and didn't compromise
Chicago's integrity. The band's rendition of "Sophisticated Lady" from N&D
reminds me alot of those early ballads.
On the other hand, I think it WAS songs like "If You Leave Me Now" and the
god-awful "Baby What A Big Surprise" that started Chicago down the slippery
slope to Balladville. IMO, the difference between these songs and the earlier
ballads was that these were blander and more generic in nature and really had
little to do with Chicago as a whole as they did with the songwriter in
question.
Murph
Mark Rathwell
> Whoa, wait a minute Mark. True, "Colour My World" was the first ballad and was
> subsequently followed by "Just You 'n' Me" and "I've Been Searchin' So Long",
> but these songs were well crafted and sophisticated
According to what? Seriously Mark ... it's all about opinions. In
terms of "technical stuff", "If You Leave Me Now" is actually more complex
(keys, chord changes etc) than the three songs you mention. There is
actually little sophistication with either "Colour My World" (all arpegios
on a piano), or Searchin'. I agree that (at the time) the band was known
for many more types of tunes, but still. Colour My World has been
identified as the ultimate prom song. Sure, Cetera can be blamed for a lot
of stuff, but it was definitely Pankow that opened the ballad door.
Ironically, too, it was Cetera's "Stay The Night" that reprisented the
first time rock stations had played a Chicago song in many years.
Mark
Mark Rathwell
Now there's a qualified response! What are your criteria, other than your
own opinion!
CRMorris88
this one)
bad ballad = you come to my senses
good ballad = here with me
i think alot of the recent ballads are good, just not really "chicago." but
still better than most of the shhhh thats on the radio.
peace
chris
CHI91111
True enough, and I won't debate "technical stuff" because I'm not a musician.
But I've been told by people who are, that both "Just You 'n' Me" and
"Searchin'........" are very complex.......But that really is beside the point
Mark because what I meant when I referred to those songs as "sophisticated" was
that, though ballads, those songs were really group efforts that didn't deviate
too far from the Chicago Pop/Rock/Jazz sound. One got the sense that every band
members 'role' in those tunes was vital to it..... Not so with Cetera's later
ballads which, beginning with "If You Leave Me Now", began to pull away from
from the style and tastes of the rest of the band.
To be honest Mark, I think that had it not been for Terry Kath's death in 1978,
Cetera would have left Chicago much sooner then he did. Tragedy (not to mention
insecurity) has a way of keeping people together longer then they should be
sometimes.
Murph
Mark Rathwell
> True enough, and I won't debate "technical stuff" because I'm not a musician.
> But I've been told by people who are, that both "Just You 'n' Me" and
> "Searchin'........" are very complex.......
Well ... "Just Y N' Me" is more so. Searchin' has a key change but the
actual tune is one of Chicago's easier tunes to play.
But that really is beside the point
> Mark because what I meant when I referred to those songs as "sophisticated" was
> that, though ballads, those songs were really group efforts that didn't deviate
> too far from the Chicago Pop/Rock/Jazz sound. One got the sense that every band
> members 'role' in those tunes was vital to it..... Not so with Cetera's later
> ballads which, beginning with "If You Leave Me Now", began to pull away from
> from the style and tastes of the rest of the band.
>
I do agree with that. For me, I guess, Chicago has always been a band that
combined a number of talents to create a number of types of music. I liked
Chicago best when they were at that clever combination. I don't mind the
Cetera ballads but for me, that's only a part of what is "Chicago." I've
come to agree with you more on the drum machine debate. I still say that
Chicago proved they could roll with the times by learning could to use the
technology, but I think they could have easily proven the point by
limiting the drum machines to a song or two, rather than an album or four.
:-) I definitely don't agree with you about "You're The Inpiration" being
able to be played by any artist. Yeah ... it is a ballad, but
(technically) anyway, it matches Chicago's musicianship. The horns aren't
prominant but the progressions and arrangments are up to Chicago's stuff.
Considerably moreso than - say - "Look Away" or "I Don't Wanna Live
Without Your Love." As far as "those ballads go", I would probably liken
"Hard To Say I'm Sorry/Get Away" as the closest to a true Chicago song
because of the sheer change from "sweet ballad" to "blazing horns".
> To be honest Mark, I think that had it not been for Terry Kath's death in 1978,
> Cetera would have left Chicago much sooner then he did. Tragedy (not to mention
> insecurity) has a way of keeping people together longer then they should be
> sometimes.
The way I understood it, Peter was happy enough to remain in
Chicago until Terry died and everyone ran wild. Without Terry, it seemed
like a good point to start over. That's what I've heard, anyway.
Mark
WNewitt
:Bill? I'd like to believe it was Danny, because everything else David
:Foster brought was very BAD for Chicago. Its hard to believe he'd
:actually do something good like finding Bill...
Actually Champlin was brought in by Foster to do background vocals for Chicago
16. (Foster was using him a lot back in those days.) They liked what they heard
and asked him to join. Bill and Danny wrote "Sonny Think Twice" so Bill could
get some writing and publishing royalties off the record.
WNE...@AOL.COM