Local music... who decides?
chapelhil...@hotmail.com
Preface: This is not 'sour grapes'. My intention is to understand
the dynamic so that myself and others don't have to be frustrated
unnecessarily when trying to book a new band.
I recently received an email from Local 506 about the goin's on at
that venue. Lots of great music acts and many of them local. Kudos
to Local 506 for hosting local talent in more than a token way.
However, ( this is meant to be a serious question ) when all requests
to book a band are ignored by any club that books local acts
(including 506), how does a band manager avoid feeling like they are
fighting favoritism?
What do I mean 'favoritism'? It seems the same local bands are
playing all of the local clubs yet when I try to book one of the local
bands that I manage, most of the time I don't even get a response. I
have visited the clubs, introduced myself, politely inquired via
email, telephone and in-person yet all of these local clubs are
silent.
So what am I raving about?
If a band manager has a great local band but local clubs won't speak
with them about booking the local band, what advice can you offer to
ensure communication with the club manager short of firing the band
manager or stalking the club manager?
trunk
> If a band manager has a great local band but local clubs won't speak
> with them about booking the local band, what advice can you offer to
> ensure communication with the club manager short of firing the band
> manager or stalking the club manager?
Great post.
If you have tried, exhaustively, to get the attention of a club
manager and they still don't respond to you, try again.
I know this sounds stupid but club goobs WANT you to work too hard.
Club goobs don't want to follow-up YOUR call but want you to spend
your time tracking them down. Club goobs are not interested in the
quality of the music, per se, but rather are interested in making
money for the club. Try a different tactic. Make them believe that
you can make them money. Appeal to their greed and the world will be
your oyster.
It's America and in America, we care more about money than about
people or art. It's true and the evidence is all around us.
chapelhil...@hotmail.com
> On Feb 5, 12:11 pm, chapelhillguitar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > If a band manager has a great local band but local clubs won't speak
> > with them about booking the local band, what advice can you offer to
> > ensure communication with the club manager short of firing the band
> > manager or stalking the club manager?
>
> Great post.
>
> If you have tried, exhaustively, to get the attention of a club
> manager and they still don't respond to you, try again.
>
> I know this sounds stupid but club goobs WANT you to work too hard.
> Club goobs don't want to follow-up YOUR call but want you to spend
> your time tracking them down. Club goobs are not interested in the
> quality of the music, per se, but rather are interested in making
> money for the club. Try a different tactic. Make them believe that
> you can make them money. Appeal to their greed and the world will be
> your oyster.
You sound like you feel my pain. :)
> It's America and in America, we care more about money than about
> people or art. It's true and the evidence is all around us.
While I will agree with this point I feel resigned to lower myself to
book bands based on economics rather than good music or good art.
Seems the only thing we Americans want is more money... at the expense
of all of the truly great things in life.
I guess I will keep thinking about the greed angle. Have you
experience in this regard? What worked for you?
grady
word) gatekeeper roles--I make most of the recommendations as to what
local CDs get playlisted at WXDU, for example. I book the bands who play
live on my radio show. I decide what shows I list on trianglerock.com.
And to be perfectly honest, if a local band has a "manager," that's an
instant red flag for me. I get a fair number of emails about shows &
bands & whatnot, and as I'm skimming them for the tiny kernels of useful
information (who/where/when), if I see "Manager" in connection with the
sender's name, I'm inclined to stop reading.
This is especially true when the manager uses the collective "we" when
referring to the band, as if he/she were a full-fledged bandmember, if
in fact he or she does not get up onstage & play an instrument with the
band.
Does this make me a bad person? Yes, sure, almost certainly. Thankfully
I'm at least aware of this, so if the band sends a CD or has music on
their MySpace, I'll probably listen to it anyway. But it'll be starting
at a deficit with me.
The only rationale I can present by way of explanation is this one: I've
listened to a couple of thousand CDs by an endless stream of local bands
over the past 16 years, and with the exception of a brief period when
Shawn Rogers was managing the Archers, I've almost never heard anything
from a local band with "management" that was worth a shit.
(Now, obviously, once a band hits a certain level--like, say, Squirrel
Nut Zippers, or Tift Merritt, or Ryan Adams--then management becomes a
necessity. But that bar is pretty high, and if you're struggling to get
booked into Local 506, I'm guessing you haven't hit it yet.)
I'll let Glenn speak for Local 506, as I'm sure he's hard at work
composing a reply right-this-second.
To answer the more general question that you're asking (why do some
bands get gigs more readily than others?), I can think of a couple of
possible answers:
1) the club owner has booked that band before, and they drew well, so
he's gonna book them again
2) the club owner listened to that other band's CD, and your CD, and the
other band's CD was better than your CD
What Glenn might say (I guess we'll find out in about 15 minutes) is
that even though Local 506 seems like a small club, it's still not a
starter-level club--it has a capacity of a couple hundred people. There
are quite a few bars around here who do live music, and have a capacity
of <100. Are you having the same amount of trouble getting booked at
(for example) Jack Sprat, or Nightlight, or the Cave, or Dain's Place in
Durham?
What Glenn will probably also say, because he's said it before, is that
at any given time, there are a couple of hundred local bands trying to
get booked into the dozen or so local clubs that book local bands.
I suppose if this were some kind of Rainbow Soccer version of a local
music scene, then everybody would get to play at every club exactly 1.6
times per year (but some peeps would still get stuck with Monday night).
Let me close with an age-old suggestion: make friends with one or more
of those bands who get shows at all the clubs you want to get shows at.
It's not uncommon for a local band who are known to draw well to get
some input into who opens for them.
Good luck,
Ross
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trunk
> experience in this regard? What worked for you?
Heh... actually I do.
There was this club, club 'a' to protect the guilty, where we kept
getting the cold shoulder from the booking guy. Nothing we tried (all
five of us tried different things) worked. Then one day we were
thinking about the issue and decided to try a bit of social
engineering on the club goob.
Here is what we did. We took out a half page ad in the Independent
that had a great picture of the band and lots of cool looking flashy
graphics and fonts. All of it meaningless. We then snagged all the
copies we could find and cut out the ad. We then mailed (snail mail)
45 copies of this advert from 45 different people (all legit people)
and then followed up with a telephone call a week later.
This club goob was salivating to get us in the door. He thought that
he was gonna make loads of money so he was suddenly our best friend.
He even gave the band a $200 bar tab AND $500 for performing.
This one little lesson should give you all you need to break into the
local scene.
Just remember:
Flash over substance - if you are an amazing band with exceptional
musicians, don't mention this fact. Instead, play down the level of
musicianship and instead find lots of adjectives which mean nothing
but average people will think you are cool.
Nothing means something - The less you say, the more people wanna
know.
Take every opportunity to impress a club goob with your business
acumen. Even if you suck at it, make the club goob THINK that you
will make them money.
It's a cruel world out there so cruel actions are needed to survive.
It's either that or just hold your own parties and forget the clique-
ish club scene.
loca...@gmail.com
I'm really busy today and wouldn't have time to reply in depth (and
really didn't get a chance to read every line of every posts.)
However, I will say this. As a club booker, I pay attention to what
the other clubs in town are doing and who's putting up fliers, et al,
so if the first-time I'm hearing of your band is when you contact me
to play 506, then it's my opinion that you're not working hard enough
(at either getting shows, or promoting the shows you got.) There are
plenty of other rooms for a band to play their first few shows, before
taking the jump up to 506.
As far as getting those others shows, which sounds like you're also
having difficulty with - my recommendation is to make friends with the
bands you want to play with. With most of our local shows, I book the
headliner and the headliner picks the bands they want to play with.
In honesty, that's how I find out about many new local acts (much more
so than bands sending me their myspace link.)
What's funny, one year ago, this original email could have been
written by Red Collar, a band that didn't even play Local 506 until
last July (when Sleepsound ask them to open their CD release show) but
would probably be looked at as a bands who's getting such
'favoritism.'
With all that said, I will share as much info as people are willing to
listen to (one of the reason's I take the time to post on amch.)
Unfortunately, too few bands in my opinion ask such questions...so i'm
glad you got the ball rolling.
glenn / local 506
Chris Rossi
with that on it? ;)
chris
Kevin Grealey
had Jefferson Holt "manager" the revolution would not have been televised.
Take your "red flag" and go run with the bulls. Just try to avoid the
bullshit. Which, I might say, is unlikely.
Still love you though. Even though you are one jaundiced fuck.
MCKINNEY /
lox...@aol.com
One thing a lot of bands tend to forget is that club owners have this nasty little addiction called 'overheads'. No matter how great your band may be, if they can't fill the joint, for whatever reason, the club owner may well lose money, maybe lots of it.
Think the bank, landlord, phone co., beer vendors, Duke Power, and a bajillion other expenses will cut the owner any slack because the attendance has been down and he can't afford to pay right now? If so, please contact me, my family has a bridge in Brooklyn we'd like to sell, cheap too!
For a new, unproven draw of a band to expect they can waltz right into a club like 506 is not only excessively egotistical, its fucking insane!
I've been in bands since 1965 and can certainly empathize with how hard it can be to get gigs...hell, we're strugglin' in Killer Filler...but the reality is that there are way, way more good bands in Chapel Hill than there are clubs to keep them all booked and that, coupled with the economic realities faced by club owners make gigs a bit on the scarce side. Particularly if you are not a PROVEN draw.
But think of how much worse it would be if the clubs that are there went out of business because they booked bands based solely upon skill or friendship as opposed to draw.
pete gamble
-----Original Message-----
From: loca...@gmail.com
To: ch-s...@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: Local music... who decides?
glenn / local 506
-- ch-scene: the list that mirrors alt.music.chapel-hill --
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chapelhil...@hotmail.com
> I don't book a club, but I play a variety of other (to use the honest
> word) gatekeeper roles--I make most of the recommendations as to what
> local CDs get playlisted at WXDU, for example. I book the bands who play
> live on my radio show. I decide what shows I list on trianglerock.com.
>
> And to be perfectly honest, if a local band has a "manager," that's an
> instant red flag for me. I get a fair number of emails about shows &
> bands & whatnot, and as I'm skimming them for the tiny kernels of useful
> information (who/where/when), if I see "Manager" in connection with the
> sender's name, I'm inclined to stop reading.
>
> This is especially true when the manager uses the collective "we" when
> referring to the band, as if he/she were a full-fledged bandmember, if
> in fact he or she does not get up onstage & play an instrument with the
> band.
>
> Does this make me a bad person? Yes, sure, almost certainly. Thankfully
> I'm at least aware of this, so if the band sends a CD or has music on
> their MySpace, I'll probably listen to it anyway. But it'll be starting
> at a deficit with me.
Wow. You actually admit to being biased against local music acts with
managers.
It isn't fair that you feel this way and is a disservice to bands who
have their collective shit together. I find it appalling that you, a
self-admitted 'gatekeep' for various local music opportunities, choose
to play god with local music simply because you are in the
'gatekeeper' role. Whatever happened to let the people decide?
Your description of your role in the local music scene is very similar
to the same cliquishness seen within the larger mainstream music
industry.
No wonder people find it very difficult to get in the door when there
are people like you who block the door.
>
> The only rationale I can present by way of explanation is this one: I've
> listened to a couple of thousand CDs by an endless stream of local bands
> over the past 16 years, and with the exception of a brief period when
> Shawn Rogers was managing the Archers, I've almost never heard anything
> from a local band with "management" that was worth a shit.
> (Now, obviously, once a band hits a certain level--like, say, Squirrel
> Nut Zippers, or Tift Merritt, or Ryan Adams--then management becomes a
> necessity. But that bar is pretty high, and if you're struggling to get
> booked into Local 506, I'm guessing you haven't hit it yet.)
Hmm. Another slam of local talent. I guess we can interpret this as
'If you are local and have a manager, you must suck.'.
I am not 'struggling' to get booked. I am fighting a quixotic fight
against the 'gatekeepers' like yourself who filter local music before
it ever has a chance to be heard in local venues.
Now I am not saying that I know better than you. I am saying that you
can't possibly know better than most since tastes vary and one
person's Dr. Dre is another person's Weird Al.
What's wrong with letting new bands in on an off night?
chapelhil...@hotmail.com
> One thing a lot of bands tend to forget is that club owners have this nasty little addiction called 'overheads'. No matter how great your band may be, if they can't fill the joint, for whatever reason, the club owner may well lose money, maybe lots of it.
>
> Think the bank, landlord, phone co., beer vendors, Duke Power, and a bajillion other expenses will cut the owner any slack because the attendance has been down and he can't afford to pay right now? If so, please contact me, my family has a bridge in Brooklyn we'd like to sell, cheap too!
>
> For a new, unproven draw of a band to expect they can waltz right into a club like 506 is not only excessively egotistical, its fucking insane!
>
> I've been in bands since 1965 and can certainly empathize with how hard it can be to get gigs...hell, we're strugglin' in Killer Filler...but the reality is that there are way, way more good bands in Chapel Hill than there are clubs to keep them all booked and that, coupled with the economic realities faced by club owners make gigs a bit on the scarce side. Particularly if you are not a PROVEN draw.
>
> But think of how much worse it would be if the clubs that are there went out of business because they booked bands based solely upon skill or friendship as opposed to draw.
>
> pete gamble
I understand overhead. I understand putting butts in the seats and
selling beer.
What I don't understand is how these things can be accomplished in an
environment that is hostile to 'bands I've never heard of'. The old
phrase 'paying your dues' rings hollow to bands who have 'paid their
dues' for years only to see newer, younger bands who haven't paid any
dues suddenly headlining at 506 or the Cradle. It reeks of favoritism
when talented bands that the club owner may not personally like don't
get booked for gigs while other, less talented bands play frequently.
Life isn't fair. I am not asking for a free ride or a fair life.
Simple courtesy of a response from the club manager or booking person
would be great. Just because bands outnumber clubs doesn't mean that
clubs don't have an obligation to be just as professional in return to
someone who is professional during a request for booking.
The days of good manners seem to be over. ;)
Jack Edinger
> With most of our local shows, I book the
> headliner and the headliner picks the bands they want to play with.
Yup, that was the only way my crappy band ever played at 506 (way back
before the Age of Glenn).
chapelhil...@hotmail.com
> > headliner and the headliner picks the bands they want to play with.
>
> Yup, that was the only way my crappy band ever played at 506 (way back
> before the Age of Glenn).
This sounds like the best advice one can use to 'break in' to this
'scene'. We have tried these avenues too but...
maybe it's our intrapersonal skills? Maybe it's the way I smell or
something?
Joel Peck
Our band got a foot in the door playing opening slots, which we did religiously and at every opportunity. We were so happy to be a band(still are), that entitlement never really occurred to us. We promoted the shit out of our Monday night shows, had the understanding that not all emails get replies, and were extremely grateful when we started getting them. We just kept doing our own thing, and I think that's when people took notice. We have a DIY ethic that was fostered during our teens. No one's going to do it for you so do it yourself. Railing against "club goobs" in a public forum is probably not going to make it easier. It's telling when a band or manager doesn't get a reply to an email, and is out of ideas.
> To: ch-s...@lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:03:39 -0800> From: chapelhil...@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Local music... who decides?> > > > With most of our local shows, I book the> > > headliner and the headliner picks the bands they want to play with.> >> > Yup, that was the only way my crappy band ever played at 506 (way back> > before the Age of Glenn).> > This sounds like the best advice one can use to 'break in' to this> 'scene'. We have tried these avenues too but...> maybe it's our intrapersonal skills? Maybe it's the way I smell or> something?> > -- ch-scene: the list that mirrors alt.music.chapel-hill --> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
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grady
career during which they were under the managerial tutelage of Mr. Kevin
Grealey. Of course, that's probably because I never actually had to deal
with Grealey, because Grealey's sole function seemed to be to provide
someone for Matt Brown to drink & smoke pot with.
If this town had more managers like Kevin Grealey, some folks, at least,
would be a lot happier.
Kevin Grealey wrote:
> Grady, you are a jerk and wrong. For example and to wit: If R.E.M. hadn't
> had Jefferson Holt "manager" the revolution would not have been televised.
> Take your "red flag" and go run with the bulls. Just try to avoid the
> bullshit. Which, I might say, is unlikely.
> Still love you though. Even though you are one jaundiced fuck.
>
grady
somebody *gave* you the honest answer, you got all appalled & stuff.
That, plus your bizarre appeal to "fairness," leads me to suspect that
perhaps you're in the wrong line of work. Have you considered becoming a
right-wing talk radio host?
chapelhil...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Wow. You actually admit to being biased against local music acts with
> managers.
>
> It isn't fair that you feel this way and is a disservice to bands who
> have their collective shit together. I find it appalling that you, a
> self-admitted 'gatekeep' for various local music opportunities, choose
> to play god with local music simply because you are in the
> 'gatekeeper' role. Whatever happened to let the people decide?
Jason M Sullivan
First, you heap abuse upon club owners.
On 2008-02-05, chapelhil...@hotmail.com <chapelhil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow. You actually admit to being biased against local music acts with
> managers.
Then you take Ross to task for an admitted bias that he says he works to
overcome. Your opinion of the magnitude of Ross's power is also probably a
little high.
> It isn't fair that you feel this way and is a disservice to bands who
> have their collective shit together.
Then you express disdian for bands without managers, because that's what
the above sentence implies.
Do you plan to try and get along with anyone around here? Because that
would seem to be a big part of getting your band booked in local clubs.
Consider getting a second e-mail address.
--
//)) Jason M. SULLIVAN jsul...@nc.rr.com
|c-oo http://www.jason0x21.org
//\_- "That's not music, that's just sound!" - J. David Fries
Kevin Grealey
to lunch. After "enhancing" our appetites we took to the road with Brown at
the helm in the Stove van (loved that van). Came to an intersection, and
after about two and a half songs, Brown looks at me and says, "You know, I
don't think this Stop sign is ever going to turn green." Then we went to
India Mahal. A good day, all in all.
> From: grady <gr...@ibiblio.org>
> Reply-To: RTP-area local music and culture <ch-s...@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:11:31 -0500
> To: RTP-area local music and culture <ch-s...@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: Local music... who decides?
>
MCKINNEY /
kut...@hotmail.com
didn't always get a response but one of them said, "Play the Nightlife
a few times, play the Cave, play Blend, build up a crowd and then book
at the 506" which I thought was load of shit because I saw a lot of
other fledgling local people play the 506. So I, like you, assumed
there must be some cabal that determines who plays there or some
secret password I have to know.
But a couple of things really helped me get a better perspective on
'where I'm playing'-the venues as well as the area. I found out that
this area is a lot different than other cities we've played. People
don't go to music venues around here to drink and maybe catch a band
regardless who's playing (RIP Joe and Jo's). Maybe this still happens
at the Cave, I don't know. Around here, they go to the venues to see
a specific band. This is different than some cities we've played
where there is a cover and people pay it, but they really don't care
what band is playing-they're there to drink. And at those venues you
can say, "The venue brings the crowd. We should get a show there".
But you can't say that about almost any venue around here. This all
seems obvious to me now but when I first started playing in a band
down here, it wasn't.
I would assume that the 506 does business just like the 40 Watt Club
or The Earl which is why we don't bother even asking to book at either
of these places or any even remotely like them in the region because
they will ignore our emails and truthfully they should ignore them.
I'd imagine places like that get dozens of requests per day, probably
getting at least triple the requests the Cradle.
We now actively look for the places in other towns that only hold 25
or 50 people- the Dain's or Jack Sprat equivalent. If we can't pack
them, I don't assume that it's the venue's fault people aren't there
to watch us and then look for a bigger place the next time we come
around town. Even if we could get a show at a bigger venue, it's not
a good idea because we've played shows at venues that hold about what
the 506 does and brought in maybe 30 people which is a great crowd but
30 in a place like the 506, it's not as fun as a place that holds only
25.
Sometimes that headliner suggestion works but I don't know if it
worked for us. We've opened for some really great local and national
bands that brought a great crowd and sure, we played some fantastic
venues but then we went back to playing to five people again.
It's not until recently that I would've felt comfortable headlining
the 506 and I think we're about on our 200th show or so. Glenn was
absolutely right when he didn't have us play and I am sincerely
grateful for it. It was better for the 506 and it was better for me
because I stopped caring so much about where we played. Glenn, as a
personal apology, every time in the past that I 'oops missed' the
urinal or toilet after dropping off our demo, I'm really really really
really sorry. Mike put me up to it.
I don't really think that whole business that trunk was talking about
with the half page ad is necessary or good for anyone. Your money and
time is spent better elsewhere. My advice is to play Jack Sprat and
Dain's at least once every two months. Find the other Jack Sprats in
the dozen towns within 4 hours of here. Do that for six months then
email Glenn.
Jay
grady
Kevin Darbro
chapelhillguitarist.
I've never been the guy to try and get bookings for the bands I was in back
in the day, and I think we only played the 506 once as part of a
double-bill.
Oddly, our first ever gig as "Trophy Wife" was at the Cat's Cradle! It was a
Thanksgiving benefit for the homeless hosted by Gravity's Pull I believe. We
were friends with Sue and Nick in GP, so they asked us. This is after we had
"proven ourselves" I guess as the musicians for "Jesus Christ Superstar" at
Forest Theater for the Somnambulist Project's production that summer. Sue
played Judas, and Nick ran sound.
They liked the way we sounded and as we became friends, they asked us to
open for them and (ugh!) Tangeena Barren.
>From there we did mostly Cave gigs and Lizard and Snake, and loved it
regardless of the size of the crowd.
Now that I'm working with a sketch comedy group in Raleigh, I've heard that
the same kind of thing happens in comedy clubs. People call the owners or
email them, and say, "my friends think I'm funny. Can I do a set on your
stage?"
It seems that it takes some personal social interaction and for people to
know you and the quality of what you do for them to book you. Oh, and of
course, that's secondary to bringing in the bottom line.
If I ever got the hankering to play out live again with the guys, I'd be
more than happy to play at smaller venues again.
But then again, I'm getting old and I need my sleepy time.
- Kevin Darbro
Bryan....@gmail.com
it's a good thing you've failed to mention exactly who you're
representing, despite the fact (and I can only speak for myself) it
probably would have garnered a couple more visits to the Myspace page.
Ross is right, though. There is a certain level of superficial
filtering that needs to be done when you're faced with tons of
requests, whether it be for booking, or for reviews/features/
interviews/listings/write-ups/whatever. I don't even get all that many
CDs crossing my path (sadly), and I still can't get to all of them.
If I'm working within the understanding that it is impossible for me
to get to everything, of course I'll go with the CD I heard was super
great, or the band I saw that one time and loved, or even the one with
the best packaging. And yes, there are some red flags. For me, a promo
CD-R w/ chicken-scratch sharpie all over it, but with a giant glossy
portrait and 8-pages of glowing praise from said band's moms is a huge
red flag because clearly that band cares more about its moms and its
"image" than packaging its music, which should speak for itself.
Similarly, publicists that are rude or do something like spell my name
wrong or who fail to provide basic information like release dates or
what the name of the band/album is usually get blown off.
Sometimes there just isn't space on the page (in the club) for
everything.
Sometimes, too I'll listen to a record and decide that this music is
simply so awful that I wouldn't want to subject my readers to the mere
mention of it. Yeah, that's editorial discretion. Yeah, it's
subjective. No, it's not a perfect system. Sorry.
I know the press side and the radio side and booking side of things
are all a little different, but I speak for myself, and I believe also
for Ross and Glenn in saying we're all generally in favor of music. If
we weren't, we wouldn't spend so much damn time on it. You can't blame
anybody for trying to take care of themselves, too.
If there were enough hours in the day, I would personally respond to
every e-mail or phone call from every publicist who sends me one to
say that some band is playing in Greensboro (out of my circulation)
and their CD came out three months ago (no longer newsworthy). But the
fact of the matter is, I don't have the time for that. And I've got it
pretty easy as a mere college newspaper editor.
That's why 90% of the job of a publicist/promoter/manager is to build
good relationships with people, so they don't waste anybody's time and
then when your band does do something newsworthy, I won't look over
your e-mail because I remember that time you were a dick because I
didn't write a 1000 word feature on your band's second practice.
-bryan from diversions/shuffle
loca...@gmail.com
stuff that has mentioned in this thread but, alas, time gets in the
way. With that said, I did want to check the level of interest in
doing a local music networking/discussion night on such topics
(booking, press, radio, etc.) - I personally think there is a lot of
information that could be shared and in a better format that amch.
This is an idea I've been bouncing around for a while. Thoughts?
The one thing I definitely want to address is the so-called
'favoritism' that I'm possibly being accused of. I make no secret
that my favorite local band is Transportation - their last show at
Local 506 was almost one year ago: February 23, 2007. Des-Ark would
be a top five favorite (possibly even number two) - last 506 show
almost three years ago: February 26, 2005! Work Clothes, Top 10 -
Last Show: 9/16/06. I have a much better chance of seeing these bands
somewhere else than at Local 506 (unfortunately!)
Now, I'm sure you're thinking, "yeah, but what about your favorite
individuals, regardless of interest in their bands." Well, I think all
you need to do is ask any of my employees (who also double as
friends) about the process. Yeah, I might throw a bone here and there
but I am normally trying to make the best bills possible (sonically,
if not alliteration'ery.)
I will say the one thing that works in any bands favor for me is their
ability to communicate efficiently. For many shows, I make a list of
potential openers - and usually contact them in the order I think they
will respond. I tend to shy away from (and eventually avoid) bands
that have been proven slow corresponders or one that takes days to
check all the band member schedules before giving me an answer.
Again, I'm sure you're thinking "isn't that the pot calling the kettle
black." I do respond to every email that comes to our booking
address, although not quite as quickly as many would like. One of the
reasons your band in particular may not have gotten a response is
because I hesitated on replying to many of the local band requests
over the last couple months until I had a better idea of how our 'free
for all' shows were working out. Otherwise, your band would have
gotten the same email Red Collar and many others have gotten (a list
of other venues that might work better.)
glenn/506
Garfield
For a new band, the first thing to do is to play anywhere and then
promote the hell out of that event. Tuesday night at a gas station?
Bring your friends! Sunday afternoon show with no cover in a parking
lot? Put fliers on every wall in Chapel Hill/Whereeverville! If you
can draw a crowd to podunk events, then you can be sure a club will be
interested. This isn't (necessarily) because club owners are evil.
It is because they have to make a living to, and unlike most of us
music isn't just their day job. If you want to make your band a
commercial entity, then you need to show that your band has commercial
potential for your partners (the venues) too.
Or you just play for fun, which is just as good and maybe better.
Some of the best music I've seen this year has come from community-
supported venues like BCHQ showing bands who are playing in large part
because of the love of the music (which is not to say those bands
aren't also commercially viable).
-Garfield
heps...@gmail.com
Hey, can you work your band manager magic and get Matt to email me
back? I must have six old email addresses for that guy.
Brian English
It took about 4 years to get to that point. We all have day jobs, we don't attempt to play full time and don't tour out of town except for the occassional weekend in Charlotte or something. We're entirely self-promoted, no management or anything. We're really not that great of a band, but we can draw a crowd that will drink a bar dry and that's all that counts for booking a club gig.
Some things we've learned about how to 'make it' around here, like it or not.
1)Play anywhere you can, play for free, play often, get heard. This builds a fan base. Clubs don't care about your music, they care about how many people will come to your gig and spend money while they're there. Keep that in mind when dealing with the club folks.
2)Private parties!! We have had more gigs come from someone hearing us at their cousin's friend's wedding reception or BBQ than from any other source. It's an awsome way to make contacts and get heard by basically a captive audience, and the pay is better than any club gig. Nothing like playing for 2 hours at a rehearsal dinner and taking home $400 apiece. :)
3)The typical RTP area audience doesn't give one shit about your original music. They want to hear stuff that they already know, they are brainwashed by Clear Channel. If you want to be popular around here, you have to be easy to party to,and that means playing covers. It often sucks, but that's just the way it is around here. Your reputation in this area is going to be based on how much 'fun' you are, not how sweet your guitar licks are or how thoughtful your lyrics are. Usually you are not playing for people that care about music, you are playing for people that care about a fun social event where they can party. If you can facilitate that, you will be popular, and the clubs will love you.
4)Promotion. All those stupid social networking sites are amazing. Myspace, Facebook, ReverbNation. The best marketing tools around. Another valuable tool is an email list. Have your website set up so people can join the mailing list. Have sign-up sheets at your shows. We probably have 750+ people on our email list. We send out an email about once a month with show information. Enough to be informative, not so much as to spam people and annoy them. Finally , as already mentioned, put up flyers EVERYWHERE. Bug all your friends to come, and to invite their friends. In college towns the kids will go to a show if they think their friends will be there, it's all about the social scene more than the music scene.
5)When you get sick of playing covers for drunks and need a good musical outlet, invite over fellow musicians and play in the comfort of your home, and spend some of your well earned gig money on beer for everyone. It'll be more musically rewarding and re-charge your musical spirit for when you have to 'sell out' to the crowd again. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: ch-scene...@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:ch-scene...@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Garfield
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:59 AM
To: ch-s...@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: Local music... who decides?
-Garfield
-- ch-scene: the list that mirrors alt.music.chapel-hill --
James Hepler
you and walk away when you shared this idea with them.
Also, Tangeena Barren?
--- trunk <trunkr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> -- ch-scene: the list that mirrors
> alt.music.chapel-hill --
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Kelly
(chapelhillguitarist) really had this question, then just go back into
the AMCH archives and you'll get a good understanding of the inner-
workings of the mythical Chapel Hill scene. I understand getting
frustrated about what you are doing but... ehh whatever. Other better
people than me have pointed out the errors and illogic in your
postings.
local...@gmail.com wrote:
> You know, I could probably write an entire book replying to all the
> stuff that has mentioned in this thread but, alas, time gets in the
> way.
I think you and Ross (and a handful of others... throw in Mac for
outsider name cred) could put together a handful of essays -- get some
cocky local grad student to edit it and put it out tied to the "Chapel
Hill Scene" ... I could see that one selling better than the lame
"Label Launch" books filling the shelves of B&Nders all of the
country!!
With that said, I did want to check the level of interest in
> doing a local music networking/discussion night on such topics
> (booking, press, radio, etc.) - I personally think there is a lot of
> information that could be shared and in a better format that amch.
> This is an idea I've been bouncing around for a while. Thoughts?
that would be really cool... I try to do this sort of thing in my job-
job all the time but it's really hard to pull off... people are crazy
busy and it's difficult to get people together and put their stuff out
on the table to deal with. It's interesting that Ross and Glenn are
the targets in this thread (you can probably add Grayson and probably
Mac as the top four unfairly maligned locals) as these are the rare
folks who consistently are most transparent with their processes in
the area. Do they frustrate me? Sure... but I'm a total ass and
realize that we all get frustrated sometimes...
Anyway.
BCHQ has hosted several evenings focused on specific topics to help
local bands and they seem to have gotten good attendance. I think
this is useful and am all for it, but the bigger more ambiguous
problems are deeper and less easy to overcome. Ego, making money (aka
breaking even or not going into serious debt), "art," personal
relationships in a relatively small area... all these things are
really difficult to analyze and plan around.
So, if you want any help putting on nights like you are talking about,
then I'll down... I've been doing that kind of thing since I was in
high school and love organizing stuff... what do people want to know
about??
But being pragmatic and honest about what's going down around here...
the mythological "back in the day" crap (we don't take that malarky
from the right-wingers, why should we do it to ourselves), the faux-
scene, "Chapel Hill," the importance of clubs, radio, cds, labels, any
of us individuals.....in the end it's just a bunch of people trying to
have fun and feel good about themselves while doing the best they can
given their situation... that's probably going to help more over the
long haul.
and forreal. I think a regularly occurring cage/grudge/no-holds-
barred event for all involved in the "local scene" would do wonders
for us... glenn getting to pound my head into a stage monitor ...
jason sullivan dropping a box of fried motherboards on dj steveo... or
a burly time boys v/s all of auxiliary house ninja/sumo battle would
do wonders for stress relief and really start to bring us together as
a "Community that Cares!"
James Hepler
month or so trying to do my part in booking a tour for
one of my bands. I emailed four clubs and a bunch of
bands in Pittsburgh. I got one response, from a club
that Erie Choir played last April, and I probaby only
got that response because I did the club a favor by
emailing them a link to the pics of rachel ray from
FHM way back when.
I hate that bullshit, not getting replies. Absolutely
fucking hate it when people don't respond, because I
respond to every fucking email and myspace message
that comes down the pike. Granted sometimes not until
weeks later, but I do respond.
So I feel your pain.
On the other hand, one of my first shows ever was a
last minute show at Lizard and Snake. We had like two
hours to get shit worked out. After that, it was a
bit easier to book the L&S. We mostly played Go after
L&S closed, and look at what happened to Go!
Seriously, the bottom line is that shit takes work and
patience. Just like writing songs. And if you don't
suckl it will eventually pay off and you'll feel like
an idiot for whining here. The best thing you can do
is GO to shows, talk to a band after they finish, hang
out. Make friends. Share a demo or a CD, try to get
on a bill. If it were easy to get a show, then more
shows would suck.
Duncan Murrell
Barren," if for no other reason than that their name has become part
of the local lexicon, words packing multiple meanings, though most
have long since forgotten what they sounded like. (I can only remember
an acoustic "White Rabbit" played in Mister Mouse's living room at The
Mousetrap one long ago July 4th.)
Not a gratuitously mean article, just a record of their brief tenure
on our stages (and their lingering tenure on our traffic signs), and
the meaning of it all.
d
.........................
www.rattlejar.com
Chris Calloway
> I've got to admit I laughed out loud at Ross's
> proposal for a career for
> chapelhillguitarist.
the money shot, yep.
i'd like to thank ross for all the favoritism.
gatekeeper is a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.
there are hundreds of bands around here and very few
clubs. only a fraction of these bands are actually
worth seeing or hearing on the radio. good job, amigo.
and i'd like to thank glenn for keeping the bar very
low. i don't know how many people know both how much
glenn really really loves music and just how super
nice he is to everybody. it's actually very easy to
play the 506 if you have a band people want to see.
when i met glenn over twenty years ago he was managing
a band. (ok, red flag, they did really suck.) and
right before he bought the 506 he was managing a band
(ok, my favorite band, his taste vastly improved with
age.) i'm pretty sure he knows what bands go through
to get heard. and i doubt there is a more considerate
club owner in the universe as a result. i'd hate to
have to answer the volume of email he must get
expecting a reply.
it was clear to me that i wasn't getting all the
emails in this thread. i checked
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/ch-scene/2008-February/thread.html
and verified i was missing most of what should have
been a thread requiring an extra large tub of popcorn.
i checked my spam folder and the missing emails
weren't there. anybody else having this problem? ross,
are any attempted deliveries to me getting bounced? if
microsoft or news corp is going to buy this clunker of
a mail agent, it might be time to retire it and find a
new horse.
3
loca...@gmail.com
This should go without saying, but unfortunately it doesn't.
Likewise, if you want to play a specific venue in town, you should
attend a show at that venue before asking. I often get questions from
area bands looking to play here asking if we have PA, a stage,
etc...stuff any band member should notice from just walking in the
room. Basically, I want bands who want to play here because they are
fans of the club or the music we book, not because it comes up on a
google search.
Not to mention, I'm here enough and notice these things. So yes,
there is probably a correlation between the number of shows Erin
Ridings attends and the number of shows Soft Company is offered.
Heck, Bull City were offered The Whigs opening slot last week because
I remembered that their guitarist John Kurtz was at the first Whigs
show a couple years ago. Call it 'favoritism', but yes some of my
favorite bands are the bands that support my club by attending shows,
not just playing them.
glenn/506
heps...@gmail.com
> Someone really needs to write an article, "The Legend of Tangeena
> Barren," if for no other reason than that their name has become part
> of the local lexicon, words packing multiple meanings, though most
> have long since forgotten what they sounded like. (I can only remember
> an acoustic "White Rabbit" played in Mister Mouse's living room at The
> Mousetrap one long ago July 4th.)
>
> Not a gratuitously mean article, just a record of their brief tenure
> on our stages (and their lingering tenure on our traffic signs), and
> the meaning of it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSJJ10H8cYY
Problem is, I don't want to give them the satisfaction of documenting
their existence.
The only other thing I remember was something about them getting a
bunch of their friends to see them at the Local 506. Then TB told
everyone to leave when they finished their set so that the club could
see how many people they drew. Maybe have been their last show at the
506 and sounds so much like what this dude trunk is all about.
heps...@gmail.com
own emails to the list. Nothing in the bulk folder either.
On Feb 6, 10:26 am, ifo...@yahoo.com (Chris Calloway) wrote:
> emails in this thread. i checkedhttp://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/ch-scene/2008-February/thread.html
grady
the only correlation I've seen so far. Other peeps who don't get this
email but who believe they should've can contact me. Heh.
E.S. posted the other day stating that she was having trouble getting
mail from another ibiblio list & wanted to see if it was an ibiblio
problem. Also from a Yahoo account. I wonder if she saw her post.
I had bounce processing turned off before (must've been the default) but
now I've turned it on. I'm not sure what level of notification I'll get
about bounces, but in theory *you'll* get notification about bounces. In
my experience, that only works kinda, due to the obvious reasons.
Hep, I've noticed that you're *posting* from a gmail account. Why'ncha
subscribe from that account & then tell us if it works better?
xo
Ross
heps...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yeah, 3, I'm reading via google groups because I no longer get even my
> own emails to the list. Nothing in the bulk folder either.
>
>> emails in this thread. i checkedhttp://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/ch-scen=
> e/2008-February/thread.html
>> and verified i was missing most of what should have
>> been a thread requiring an extra large tub of popcorn.
>> i checked my spam folder and the missing emails
>> weren't there. anybody else having this problem? ross,
>> are any attempted deliveries to me getting bounced? if
>> microsoft or news corp is going to buy this clunker of
>> a mail agent, it might be time to retire it and find a
>> new horse.
>>
>> 3
>>
>> -- ch-scene: the list that mirrors alt.music.chapel-hill --http://lists.ib=
> iblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
James Hepler
just because I've been reading via google. I'll
report back.
--- grady <gr...@ibiblio.org> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
-- ch-scene: the list that mirrors alt.music.chapel-hill --
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
grady
> i'd like to thank ross for all the favoritism.
> gatekeeper is a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.
> there are hundreds of bands around here and very few
> clubs. only a fraction of these bands are actually
> worth seeing or hearing on the radio. good job, amigo.
See, you can't quite tell if he's being serious or being sarcastic. My
money is on both, since that's kinda how I feel about it myself.
For instance: At home I have one of those metal shelving units that you
get at Lowe's. It's full of mail bins. The mail bins are full of local
CDs. Many of them aren't all that great. Yet I'd never dream of throwing
them away, because Attention Must Be Paid.
If you arrange them neatly in 2 levels of 2 rows, you can fit around 150
CDs into a mail bin. Each week at WXDU we usually get right around one
mail bin full of CDs. In the months that aren't April or October, we get
a little less; in those two hellish months, somewhat more.
At the radio station, we just have the one playlist. At any given time
it has, I dunno, 120 CDs on it, something like that. Some weeks more,
some weeks less, especially around the holidays when the students are
gone and the world shuts down. Each CD gets to spend 6 weeks on that
playlist. This means, if you're willing to do some math, that each week
we've got room to add 20 new CDs, total, out of that 150 that show up in
the mail.
Even with our strong commitment to local music, there's clearly only
room for me to add a finite number of local releases to playlist every
week, since the local releases gotta share the same space with all that
other stuff y'all claim to enjoy listening to. Some weeks I add
everything I get in the mail.
Other weeks I don't.
What are my criteria (other than the dead-giveaway of a CD that arrives
with a cute little portfolio like you used in middle school, with a
sticker on the front and an 8x10 glossy inside . . . you never have to
listen to those, unless you just wanna have a larf at someone's expense)?
Well, basically, I line them up & listen to them, and based on how many
playlist slots I think I have, and how many reviews I feel like writing
(look, I gotta listen to each damn CD through at least 2 or 3 times,
scanning for indecencies & whatnot . . . if you want to be my friend,
mark the songs where you cuss, OK?), and whether any of them are so
egregiously awful as to make the baby jesus cry, I playlist however many
seems right at the time.
What I've learned over the years is that, assuming there's room on the
playlist shelves, I can playlist a CD that I believe to be a total piece
of ratshit, and no harm will come by it. If it *is* a total piece of
ratshit, your average XDU DJ will figure that out almost instantly, and
won't play it. If it's *not* a total piece of ratshit after all, then
they'll play it, and I won't care because I can't pick up the damn
station half the time anyway.
So there's your gatekeeper role, in a nutshell: protecting the world
from bands who still pay to have 8x10 glossies printed up of themselves.
xo
Ross
Duncan Murrell
trunk's sweeping characterization of local clubs and audiences. T.B.
(unfortunate coincidence of abbreviations) hustled like hell, slapped
flyers and stickers everywhere, and did everything they could (as you
point out) to show they could draw crowds. What they didn't do was
play music local audiences cared much about (to put it politely), and
they didn't put much effort into supporting anything but T.B. They
succeeded in getting on stages around here, briefly, using all the
techniques described in this thread (and just imagine the kind of
myspace page they would have had!), but they didn't succeed at staying
on those stages very long. In the end, the burdens of aesthetics,
proficiency, quality, and basic human values did them in. Especially
the "quality" part.
It's not just a matter of money, or friendship, or skill at
approaching gatekeepers. In the words of that noted philosopher, the
strict opposition of market values to artistic ones is faux. Faux,
faux, faux.
d
.........................
www.rattlejar.com
On Feb 6, 2008, at 11:21 AM, "heps...@gmail.com" <heps...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 6, 10:18=A0am, dvmurr...@nc.rr.com (Duncan Murrell) wrote:
>> Someone really needs to write an article, "The Legend of Tangeena =A0
>> Barren," if for no other reason than that their name has become
>> part =A0
>> of the local lexicon, words packing multiple meanings, though most
>> =A0
>> have long since forgotten what they sounded like. (I can only
>> remember =A0=
>
>> an acoustic "White Rabbit" played in Mister Mouse's living room at
>> The =A0=
>
>> Mousetrap one long ago July 4th.)
>>
>> Not a gratuitously mean article, just a record of their brief
>> tenure =A0
>> on our stages (and their lingering tenure on our traffic signs),
>> and =A0
>> the meaning of it all.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DpSJJ10H8cYY
>
> Problem is, I don't want to give them the satisfaction of documenting
> their existence.
>
> The only other thing I remember was something about them getting a
> bunch of their friends to see them at the Local 506. Then TB told
> everyone to leave when they finished their set so that the club could
> see how many people they drew. Maybe have been their last show at the
> 506 and sounds so much like what this dude trunk is all about.
James Hepler
came through to my newly subscribed gmail account, but not to my old yahoo
one. I'm posting this to the list, not the google group.
heps...@gmail.com
manager have to offer a band that can't book local shows, and how do
you get compensated? I've been in bands for 18 years now and have
never had a manager, nor do I know what role a manager is supposed to
play. I mean, when a band gets big enough, a booking agent would book
shows, a label would take care of much of promoting records and
shows. I'm sure there's a role for a manager at some point. Outside
of what I've seen in The Commitments, I don't know what managers do.
Do bands seek you out or do you seek bands out? Do you have a web
page, a roster? I don't know you because you choose to remain
anonymous, but for all anyone here knows, you could be a fly by night
sorta guy who doesn't really know the ins and outs of the business,
and maybe the reason you have trouble booking shows has something to
do with that impression preceding you.
At least that's where MY red flag is raised.
On Feb 5, 12:11 pm, chapelhillguitar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> Preface: This is not 'sour grapes'. My intention is to understand
> the dynamic so that myself and others don't have to be frustrated
> unnecessarily when trying to book a new band.
>
> I recently received an email from Local 506 about the goin's on at
> that venue. Lots of great music acts and many of them local. Kudos
> to Local 506 for hosting local talent in more than a token way.
>
> However, ( this is meant to be a serious question ) when all requests
> to book a band are ignored by any club that books local acts
> (including 506), how does a band manager avoid feeling like they are
> fighting favoritism?
>
> What do I mean 'favoritism'? It seems the same local bands are
> playing all of the local clubs yet when I try to book one of the local
> bands that I manage, most of the time I don't even get a response. I
> have visited the clubs, introduced myself, politely inquired via
> email, telephone and in-person yet all of these local clubs are
> silent.
>
> So what am I raving about?
>
> If a band manager has a great local band but local clubs won't speak
> with them about booking the local band, what advice can you offer to
> ensure communication with the club manager short of firing the band
> manager or stalking the club manager?
Doug
> If you don't mind my asking, or hell, even if you do, what does a
> manager have to offer a band that can't book local shows, and how do
> you get compensated? I've been in bands for 18 years now and have
> never had a manager, nor do I know what role a manager is supposed to
> play.
Just rent the DVD of "Flight of the Conchords" and observe the character
Murray. All of your questions will be answered.
Mimi McLaughlin
> You know, I could probably write an entire book replying to all the
> stuff that has mentioned in this thread but, alas, time gets in the
> way. With that said, I did want to check the level of interest in
> doing a local music networking/discussion night on such topics
> (booking, press, radio, etc.) - I personally think there is a lot of
> information that could be shared and in a better format that amch.
> This is an idea I've been bouncing around for a while. Thoughts?
Hey Glenn, and others
I think this is a fabulous idea. There was a group that gathered at
BCHQ
a handful of times on topics such as booking, recording, merch... the
idea
and potential for building community and having accessible
information
was great. For whatever reason, attendance tapered with time, but I
think (as this thread suggests) that the interest would still be
there.
I'm more than willing to be one to help out with running/organizing/
helping in
whatever capacity on this.
Lemme know.
Mimi
Chris Calloway
> pics of rachel ray from FHM
please tell me those are shopped.
3
Kelly
heps...@gmail.com wrote:
-- I don't know what managers do.
after spending four years of booking "big" bands in college, my
experience was that the band manager was the essentially the
babysitter. Someone that could drop the news from the "label" on the
band in a way that they wouldn't freak... to do all the things that
normal people can do like say "I would like you to order me the
falafel wrap for dinner, thank you" ... and mostly to make sure that
the band doesn't get too loaded before the show and then to make sure
the band stays cool afterwards, gets all their shit and goes in the
right direction to the next gig.
Basically, if you have ever taught school and enjoyed every second of
(the controlling part of) it, or herded cats, or ran a BSDM Dungeon...
then you'll be perfect for it.
In fact. My dad's wife is his manager. I hate her. He has talent...
and she is a leech... and was a kindergarten teacher and treats all
around her like they are 5. BUT... she gets him places on time.
on the point about returning emails. None of us are perfect about
responding to emails. All of us freak out when we don't get a
response when we want. It happens.
When I get an email from a friend about their new baby, I try to
respond fairly quickly... because while I might not really give that
much of a shit... I know that you are totally delusional to think that
this is the most important thing to ever happen in the multi-verse.
Bands and their music are much like new parents.
And thank you, Herrgatterwächter, for demonstrating my point of the
great measures you take to be transparent.
James Hepler
James Hepler
understand.
> And thank you, Herrgatterw=E4chter, for demonstrating my point of the
> great measures you take to be transparent.
betsy...@gmail.com
I jest, I jest.
Everyone was talking about this last night at practice and I was like
"goody!" I love this sort of thing.
Favoritism seems like favoritism because well...they're the public's
favorite. People really like Red Collar right now. And Hammer No
More the Fingers. They consistantly bring in over 20 people to
shows. But if you follow bands from the get go, most bands don't
start out that way. There are some who just sort of rise, fully
formed out of Zeus's head (IWTDI) but actually, when you look at it,
the people involved in that band sorta did 'pay dues' already and so
they have relationships and fans already. I remember playing a show
with Red Collar where it was us, them, the bartenders and Chaz. Yes,
a whopping 3 people not in bands were at the show. Stuff like that
doesn't really make me mad, though, it kind of gives me hope. Like,
if RC could play empty venues last year and now be headlining at the
506, and drawing at the cradle, then maybe one day I can play those
places too, if I work hard and don't turn down any gigs (seriously,
I've got 2 whole non-musician fans now!), eventually I'll get to the
point where I'd feel comfortable asking the 506 for a show. But why
the hell would you want to play the 506 when you can't fill it? I'd
always prefer to weasel in with someone who already has a following
than be stupid enough to think I can pull one in. Especially if
you're playing on a night opposite some MAJOR show at another venue.
But anyway. Re: Musician's Workshop (RIP), the remnants are still
there and it'd be cool if venue owners put in comments of their own
for it, since, ya know, it's going to be sort of a resource.
The link is here:
http://musicworkshop.proboards83.com/
fill er up!
<3
bs
On Feb 7, 9:18 am, hepst...@gmail.com (James Hepler) wrote:
> See, now that all sounds like the role of a TOUR manager. That I
> understand.
>
> On Feb 7, 2008 7:51 AM, Kelly <radiof...@gmail.com> wrote:
grady
what more do you want??
betsy...@gmail.com wrote:
> So, um, where were you all when I was writing my thesis?
>
> I jest, I jest.
James Hepler
> There are some who just sort of rise, fully
> formed out of Zeus's head (IWTDI) but actually, when you look at it,
> the people involved in that band sorta did 'pay dues' already and so
> they have relationships and fans already.
Sorta? Two members of IWTDI have been playing music locally for at least
10 years. If that's not grounds for removing the "sorta", what is?
l.sward
AWESOME!!!!!!!
betsy...@gmail.com
> > There are some who just sort of rise, fully
> > formed out of Zeus's head (IWTDI) but actually, when you look at it,
> > the people involved in that band sorta did 'pay dues' already and so
> > they have relationships and fans already.
>
> Sorta? Two members of IWTDI have been playing music locally for at least
> 10 years. If that's not grounds for removing the "sorta", what is?
Four members =)
<3
James Hepler
James Hepler
loca...@gmail.com
Actually, I would advise the opposite - as I always say, "Play Less &
Draw More." Because of the number of venues in the area, it's easy
for bands to overplay. You should focus all of your effort on each
individual show you book, no matter the venue. People don't have to
be in attendance to discover your band - I 'discover' more new local
bands from word of mouth by people who were in the audience (than by
emails or presskits.) I'm constantly talking to people who come to
506 about area shows they've seen.
To be more exact, I got two emails yesterday - one from a band that
has yet to play here and one that hasn't played in about a year or
so. I've yet to respond to either but I already know exactly how
their recent shows at other venues did, just from conversations I've
had while bartending. And the band that has never played here (whom
I'd never even heard of til a few days ago) will likely be getting a
show here more quickly than the one I'm familiar with based primarily
on such conversations.
Likewise, I always advise bands to underpromise, then overdeliver. If
you tell me you're going to pack my club and then only 10 people show
up, well I'll remember that next time round (ie: fool me once, shame
on you...) The two biggest free-for-all shows we've had so far were
the ones I had the lowest expectation for because the bands had yet to
play here. In fact, two of those bands are already setting up a
weekend show based on how well their free shows went (and again, I'd
never even heard of these bands til cleaning out my booking inbox
looking for free-for-all possibilities!)
Similarly, my personal favorite band from the free-for-all series
will have more difficulty because they drew few people (despite
claiming the opposite.) That's the thing, people think if the club
falls for the band, they'll get some breaks but that's not always the
case - I'll still recommend this band play smaller rooms - it's just
better for both of us. Two of my favorite non-triangle acts,
Filthybird (Greensboro) and The Hellsayers (Asheville) rarely play
here because they're not the biggest draws in this town. I can only
do so much, but what I can't do is make more people like a band or
come to a show (but I sure can name-drop them so people might check
them out!)
The other thing to remember, first AND last impressions go a long
way. If your first show here is huge, that'll stick in my mind for a
while and might get you a few extra shows, even if shows 2 or 3 are
not so well attended. However, unless you make a super-positive first
impression, then I am primarily going to judge you by your last show
here. If your most-recent 506 show (regardless of other shows in town
or past success at this club) is sub-par, then it's going to be hard
for me to forget that when you ask me for that next show.
With all that said, it sometimes seems bands just don't have 'no' in
their vocabulary, and end up saying yes to everything they're offered,
whether they are excited about it or not. Besides being a great band,
I credit The Old Ceremony's rise to Cradle-status due in part to their
to their show selection process. I'm sure Django has told me 'no' to
as many show as he's said 'yes.' In turn, The Old Ceremony is the
only local band to form during my 3.5 years of owning Local 506 that
has also outgrown my club.
If there were more bands like that, I might even succumb and use the
word 'scene' again...glenn/506
ps: gosh, I always think I'm going to write a two sentence reply, and
it evolves into an essay somehow.
eleni binge
more you play, the more random folks might see you, and your name will
be out there, but the less folks will feel the need to come out due to
knowing you'll just be back again in a few days. There is no magic
formula, but one thing that's important is to freakin remember why
they heck you began playing anyway. Which I always remember when I
see bands like the Midtown Dickens, Wigg Report, Bowerbirds, Megafaun,
etc etc etc. Otherwise you're just pissing on trees. That's how it
seems, anyway.
Plus we're all pretty lucky to be in this area. There are a whole
heck of a lot of places to play and a whole heck of a lot of great
bands to see. To illustrate this point, I send you the following
article, forwarded by a former Seattle bandmate (Slug Sandwich):
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/musicnightlife/2004154856_deadclubs31.html
--ex-Slug
Jeremy Blair
I still think we need to see more street performing. If I were moving around
and I came across a band on the street playing a few acoustic tunes and
handing out fliers or a hand bill, I'd stop and listen for sure...and if I
liked the voice I'd make an effort to get to the show.
loca...@gmail.com
When starting out, yes, play away. But as you progress, and ideally
try to move up, then you have to be selective. Believe me, the first
thing I look at when considering a band for a show is what other shows
they have. And that's not just for me, but it's also some protection
for the other venues. I don't want to undercut my fellow venues by
booking an act they already have on their schedule.
Funny, for this reason alone is why Bull City opened *this* Whigs
shows. They were the first band i thought of for the past few Whigs
shows, but always had something else scheduled in the time-frame.
They never realized this cos I never even emailed them (thank you,
myspace.)
For this reason alone, I would also suggest not booking too many shows
too far out as well (if you want to play 506, the Cradle, etc.) There
is a local band that played here this past Fall that I really dug and
I want to put them on a bigger show; however, when I was looking to
add them to a recent bill, they already has multiple Cave shows
throughout the Spring, which not only ruled them out for this one
show, but pretty much ruled them out from any show here this Spring.
Again, I'm not saying don't play smaller rooms, all I'm suggesting is
be selective and think about your goals as a band when picking
shows....glenn
Eric Mann
and beyond, including 38 states and eastern Canada about 355 shows i think.
and as hard as it was to get things moving and shaking with local shows and
press it appears we have a better presence and press related "positiveness"
after being broken up for 3 years than we did when we were an active band.
The Indy never covered us positively or negatively when we were an active
band. but the Indy just last week said we used to be one of North Carolina's
best bands.
so yeah as glenn just put it. be strategic. but also do other stuff to like
playing on the radio and recording with awesome people. Kudzu Wish got to
record with J. Robbins a few years back and that totally ruled and we didn't
have to play to an empty room or drive in the snow or whatever. try
different venues out in chapel hill since there are so many and see what
turns out to be the best to your band or situation. Hell, the Cave,
Reservoir, Nightlight, Jack Sprat and the other countless 30 - 100 person
venues around here. after that its a real trick to turn the corner and play
bigger venues only. not sure i have the best advice since my band imploded
and we were just to tired of not getting any breaks. be very fortunate to
have the plethora of small venues around here. coming from greensboro from
1998 - 2004 that area had college campuses, some house shows, a record store
and a bar or two as far as small to mid size venues and that was it. chapel
hill has a crap load of small situations which one would think would make
things easier for local bands but maybe not.
loca...@gmail.com
beauty of self-employment is making your own schedule.)
If you think I'm holding bands to a high-standard with my booking
procedures, you may have noticed that we currently do not have music
trivia on the 506 schedule. Let me just say that music trivia night
was my idea and my favorite thing to come out of buying a rock club;
however, over the Fall attendance started to wane so as much as I love
doing that night, I took it off the schedule and gave those Sundays to
free-for-all shows.
Again, I love trivia night and have enough trivia ideas to fill a year
of trivia nights, but I had to make way for something that I thought
might work out better for the club. In fact, one of my suggestions to
my trivia partner Phil was that we contemplate doing it in another bar
besides 506 (ie: a smaller room!)
As Pete Gamble mentioned in an earlier post, clubs do have
overheads...and my nightly overhead is closer to my current monthly
rent (and no, I don't have roommates!) And it has to be paid, none of
the bill collectors, or the town of Chapel Hill for that fact, has cut
me a break because of what we provide the community.
glenn
ps:again, thought this would be two sentences!
Reese Gibbs
-Reese
James Hepler <heps...@gmail.com> wrote: For the record, Mr. Grady, this lovely and poignant reply from Mr. Murrell
came through to my newly subscribed gmail account, but not to my old yahoo
one. I'm posting this to the list, not the google group.
On Feb 6, 2008 12:24 PM, Duncan Murrell wrote:
> Exactly what I was thinking, esp. How their story puts the lie to
> trunk's sweeping characterization of local clubs and audiences. T.B.
> (unfortunate coincidence of abbreviations) hustled like hell, slapped
> flyers and stickers everywhere, and did everything they could (as you
> point out) to show they could draw crowds. What they didn't do was
> play music local audiences cared much about (to put it politely), and
> they didn't put much effort into supporting anything but T.B. They
> succeeded in getting on stages around here, briefly, using all the
> techniques described in this thread (and just imagine the kind of
> myspace page they would have had!), but they didn't succeed at staying
> on those stages very long. In the end, the burdens of aesthetics,
> proficiency, quality, and basic human values did them in. Especially
> the "quality" part.
>
> It's not just a matter of money, or friendship, or skill at
> approaching gatekeepers. In the words of that noted philosopher, the
> strict opposition of market values to artistic ones is faux. Faux,
> faux, faux.
>
> d
>
> .........................
> www.rattlejar.com
>
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 11:21 AM, "heps...@gmail.com"
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Bryan....@gmail.com
I second the nod to the Hellsayers...
_bryan from Dive/Shuffle
DJ Stevo
off, I thought
that I was alone in thinking bad things when a manager of a band I've
never
heard of before gets in touch with me before the band themselves, or
when a
group sends me a big press kit filled with glossy photographs. I make
it a policy
to never overlook an album from its cover, but in nearly 100% of all
cases, these
albums tend to make my ears sad. In the most dire circumstances, I'm
forced
to pull out my emergency copy of The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway to
serve as
an aural palate cleanser.
I'd also like to reiterate Ross' point about listing the FCC cuts;
there's nothing more
irritating than a group that sends you everything from reviews to
their favorite cover
songs but neglects to state the FCC information. I tend to listen to
a CD about three
times before I've got a good idea of what tracks will be going into
what levels of rotation,
and if I have to screen out the profanity manually, it's not an
enjoyable process.
Reiterating one final point... rotation is a limited resource, and
while it's
not quite so heavily regimented by CD at KNC, it's still limited by
major factors such as hard
disk space on our automation system, my schedule, and by self-imposed
limits on songs in rotation
levels. We care a lot about keeping our rotation fresh and enjoyable,
as if you end up rotating
something of sub-par quality, it'll inevitably get played by the Auto-
DJ or by a shift jock, and
it's going to make the station sound like ass for the 4-5 minutes it's
on.
My process for determining 'good' CDs from 'bad' CDs is likely a lot
simpler than what most
people might surmise. Simply put, if your music sounds like a sludgy
rehash of Nirvana
and Creed, or if it's aping something like Fallout Boy or Jack
Johnson, there's no way in hell
I'd put it into rotation. I've received a fair number of CDs that
sound like this, and oftentimes they'll come
with veritable tidal waves of publicity behind them. Some groups,
with delusions of grandeur, will
do things like buying giant tour buses or hiring major publicity
agencies to promote them when
the music itself isn't up to snuff, and it blows my mind. These bands
will wonder why I don't play them
on KNC, and some will even posit that I'm not supporting local music
due to my indifference.
I've found that this lack of airplay is something that a lot of these
groups take personally, as music is a personal
statement for many bands. Many seem to think that club owners and
media 'owe' them airplay, a slot on a bill,
or a good review simply because they're a local band. Granted, being
local gives you major points in my book,
but boring music won't get played on our station whether you're from
around here or not. Call 96 Rock
for that shit. It's not favoritism, it's probably not fair either,
but it seems that the only way to get known
around the Triangle is through the old-fashioned, pre-Internet method
of hitting the streets, practicing,
and then kicking ass and taking names until people start to pay
attention. I'm probably preaching to the
choir here, since amc-h is populated by the types of people who have
done this time and again and
who make this scene so awesome because of it.
So that's basically how the 'gatekeeping' goes down at KNC, and, by
virtue of being in
such an awesome music scene, it's never been quite as dirty as it
could be thus far. By far and large,
most of the CDs I've received have been fantastic, inspiring works.
Sometimes good CDs will slip
between the cracks, though, and if they do, kick my ass until I play
it, as school, work, and other distractions
will sometimes cause me to inadvertently look over an album that I've
slated for digitization and rotation.
That's not fair to you, and every good album that I get deserves as
much airplay as we can throw at it and
more, so take me to task with great zest and zeal if you're not
getting the airplay you think you deserve.
Anyways, thanks for letting me brain dump here, and if I haven't
played a really good album that you think
I should be playing, shoot me an e-mail and let's talk.
-Stevo
djs...@wknc.org
5er , martin
through yahoo and it appears that I received about 1/3
of the total posts in this thread. I did not check to
see how many posts from other threads I
missed...although it looks like I missed at least a
couple on the "election time" thread as well...
obviously my computer hates me.
if it might be better to subscribe through a gmail
address, let me know...I could do that...but what's
with the discrimination against Yahoo!?...Microsoft
has not bought them, yet!...and someone needs to email
me off list and remind me how I subscribed in the
first place...it was like 13 or 14 years ago!!
-5er
--- grady <gr...@ibiblio.org> wrote:
> Both Senor 3 & Senor Hepler are subscribed from
> Yahoo accounts. That is
> the only correlation I've seen so far. Other peeps
> who don't get this
> email but who believe they should've can contact me.
> Heh.
>
> E.S. posted the other day stating that she was
> having trouble getting
> mail from another ibiblio list & wanted to see if it
> was an ibiblio
> problem. Also from a Yahoo account. I wonder if she
> saw her post.
>
> I had bounce processing turned off before (must've
> been the default) but
> now I've turned it on. I'm not sure what level of
> notification I'll get
> about bounces, but in theory *you'll* get
> notification about bounces. In
> my experience, that only works kinda, due to the
> obvious reasons.
>
> Hep, I've noticed that you're *posting* from a gmail
> account. Why'ncha
> subscribe from that account & then tell us if it
> works better?
>
> xo
>
> Ross
>
> heps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Yeah, 3, I'm reading via google groups because I
> no longer get even my
> > own emails to the list. Nothing in the bulk
> folder either.
> >
> > On Feb 6, 10:26=A0am, ifo...@yahoo.com (Chris
> Calloway) wrote:
> >> --- Kevin Darbro <kdar...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've got to admit I laughed out loud at Ross's
> >>> proposal for a career for
> >>> chapelhillguitarist.
> >> the money shot, yep.
> >>
> >> i'd like to thank ross for all the favoritism.
> >> gatekeeper is a dirty job, but somebody's gotta
> do it.
> >> there are hundreds of bands around here and very
> few
> >> clubs. only a fraction of these bands are
> actually
> >> worth seeing or hearing on the radio. good job,
> amigo.
> >>
> >> and i'd like to thank glenn for keeping the bar
> very
> >> low. i don't know how many people know both how
> much
> >> glenn really really loves music and just how
> super
> >> nice he is to everybody. it's actually very easy
> to
> >> play the 506 if you have a band people want to
> see.
> >> when i met glenn over twenty years ago he was
> managing
> >> a band. (ok, red flag, they did really suck.) and
> >> right before he bought the 506 he was managing a
> band
> >> (ok, my favorite band, his taste vastly improved
> with
> >> age.) i'm pretty sure he knows what bands go
> through
> >> to get heard. and i doubt there is a more
> considerate
> >> club owner in the universe as a result. i'd hate
> to
> >> have to answer the volume of email he must get
> >> expecting a reply.
> >>
> >> it was clear to me that i wasn't getting all the
> >> emails in this thread. i
> checkedhttp://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/ch-scen=
> > e/2008-February/thread.html
> >> and verified i was missing most of what should
> have
> >> been a thread requiring an extra large tub of
> popcorn.
> >> i checked my spam folder and the missing emails
> >> weren't there. anybody else having this problem?
> ross,
> >> are any attempted deliveries to me getting
> bounced? if
> >> microsoft or news corp is going to buy this
> clunker of
> >> a mail agent, it might be time to retire it and
> find a
> >> new horse.
> >>
> >> 3
> >>
> >> -- ch-scene: the list that mirrors
> alt.music.chapel-hill --http://lists.ib=
> > iblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
> >
> > -- ch-scene: the list that mirrors
> alt.music.chapel-hill --
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
> >
> >
> -- ch-scene: the list that mirrors
> alt.music.chapel-hill --
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
>
"A boy wants a car from his dad.
Dad says, first you got to cut that hair.
Boys says, hey dad Jesus had long hair.
Dad says, That's right son, and Jesus walked everywhere."
- David Berman/The Silver Jews
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
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andy fekete
with managers. It isn't fair that you feel this way and is a
disservice to bands who have their collective shit together. "
The implication is that "acts with managers" and "bands who have their
collective shit together" are somehow connected.
I am not so certain. One could argue that if a band gets a manager
before they are at least well-known enough for the booking agent of a
small local club to be aware of them, then there is a high likelihood
that the band does not, in fact, have their collective shit together;
in fact, one could argue it is an indication that the band is full of
shit.
Grady's method of discarding email submissions from band "managers"
would seem to favor new acts starting out, and has the potential to
uncover a diamond in the rough. I like that.
-A
On Feb 5, 2:38 pm, chapelhillguitar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 5, 1:24 pm, gr...@ibiblio.org (grady) wrote:
>
>
>
> > I don't book a club, but I play a variety of other (to use the honest
> > word) gatekeeper roles--I make most of the recommendations as to what
> > local CDs get playlisted at WXDU, for example. I book the bands who play
> > live on my radio show. I decide what shows I list on trianglerock.com.
>
> > And to be perfectly honest, if a local band has a "manager," that's an
> > instant red flag for me. I get a fair number of emails about shows &
> > bands & whatnot, and as I'm skimming them for the tiny kernels of useful
> > information (who/where/when), if I see "Manager" in connection with the
> > sender's name, I'm inclined to stop reading.
>
> > This is especially true when the manager uses the collective "we" when
> > referring to the band, as if he/she were a full-fledged bandmember, if
> > in fact he or she does not get up onstage & play an instrument with the
> > band.
>
> > Does this make me a bad person? Yes, sure, almost certainly. Thankfully
> > I'm at least aware of this, so if the band sends a CD or has music on
> > their MySpace, I'll probably listen to it anyway. But it'll be starting
> > at a deficit with me.
>
> Wow. You actually admit to being biased against local music acts with
> managers.
>
> It isn't fair that you feel this way and is a disservice to bands who
> have their collective shit together. I find it appalling that you, a
> self-admitted 'gatekeep' for various local music opportunities, choose
> to play god with local music simply because you are in the
> 'gatekeeper' role. Whatever happened to let the people decide?
>
> Your description of your role in the local music scene is very similar
> to the same cliquishness seen within the larger mainstream music
> industry.
>
> No wonder people find it very difficult to get in the door when there
> are people like you who block the door.
>
>
>
> > The only rationale I can present by way of explanation is this one: I've
> > listened to a couple of thousand CDs by an endless stream of local bands
> > over the past 16 years, and with the exception of a brief period when
> > Shawn Rogers was managing the Archers, I've almost never heard anything
> > from a local band with "management" that was worth a shit.
> > (Now, obviously, once a band hits a certain level--like, say, Squirrel
> > Nut Zippers, or Tift Merritt, or Ryan Adams--then management becomes a
> > necessity. But that bar is pretty high, and if you're struggling to get
> > booked into Local 506, I'm guessing you haven't hit it yet.)
>
> Hmm. Another slam of local talent. I guess we can interpret this as
> 'If you are local and have a manager, you must suck.'.
>
> I am not 'struggling' to get booked. I am fighting a quixotic fight
> against the 'gatekeepers' like yourself who filter local music before
> it ever has a chance to be heard in local venues.
>
> Now I am not saying that I know better than you. I am saying that you
> can't possibly know better than most since tastes vary and one
> person's Dr. Dre is another person's Weird Al.
>
> What's wrong with letting new bands in on an off night?
grady
is intermittently blocking the entire block of IP addresses used by UNC
& various other academic institutions in central NC.
You can decide for yourself whether this "protective" action has been a
net positive or negative for you ;-)
I'm not one to advocate a wholesale migration to Google, but it does
currently appear that gmail users aren't having the same problem,
presumably because gmail's spam-filtering is different in how it's
implemented.
Ross
rchr...@gmail.com
mentioning a) mail pipe problems b) Tangeena Barren c) faux.
So awesome.
R.
Joe Huffuff
>>> With most of our local shows, I book the
>>> headliner and the headliner picks the bands they want to play with.
>> Yup, that was the only way my crappy band ever played at 506 (way back
>> before the Age of Glenn).
>
> This sounds like the best advice one can use to 'break in' to this
> 'scene'. We have tried these avenues too but...
> maybe it's our intrapersonal skills? Maybe it's the way I smell or
> something?
>
Interesting.
Yeah, I've done pretty much everything, from doing everything to doing
nothing. From highly slick productions to DIY. From real irony to
hyper-irony. With big bands and solo. I'm not whining, and there are
lots of different things I could have done. I've been nice and I've been
an asshole. I sent CDs to everyone with little or no response except "I
get 1000 CDs a day, why should I listen to yours.." One reviewer began a
published review by stating that putting the fact that I liked Steely
Dan on my bio was some sort of harbinger of doom to their sensitive ears.
So I have to say that the only reason that I can think of is that I'm
fat,ugly, and I like singing the flat 5th over the tonic.
CHG I wish you well. There's nothing more dangerous than a DIY pope hat
and an elistist hairshirt on the same person, year after year.
It's not your 'intrapersonal' skill. You can try too hard. Or not
enough. Sound too good, or not good enough. I heard one reviewer at a
bar praise a bunch of high school kids banging on glasses and calling it
the next revolution.
So my advice is to buy a bar, or be someone who was in a band that was
famous here before you were born.
freed...@gmail.com
> > Someone really needs to write an article, "The Legend of Tangeena
> >
> > Not a gratuitously mean article, just a record of their brief tenure
>
freed...@gmail.com
we canOn Wednesday, February 6, 2008 at 10:18:14 AM UTC-5, Duncan Murrell wrote:
> Someone really needs to write an article, "The Legend of Tangeena
> Barren," if for no other reason than that their name has become part
> of the local lexicon, words packing multiple meanings, though most
> have long since forgotten what they sounded like. (I can only remember
> an acoustic "White Rabbit" played in Mister Mouse's living room at The
> Mousetrap one long ago July 4th.)
>
> Not a gratuitously mean article, just a record of their brief tenure
> on our stages (and their lingering tenure on our traffic signs), and
> the meaning of it all.
>
> .........................
> www.rattlejar.com
>
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 9:22 AM, James Hepler <james...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm surprised you found 45 peopel who didn't laugh at
> > you and walk away when you shared this idea with them.
> >
> > Also, Tangeena Barren?
> >
> > --- trunk <trunkr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> I guess I will keep thinking about the greed
> >> angle. Have you
> >>> experience in this regard? What worked for you?
> >>
> >> Heh... actually I do.
> >>
> >> There was this club, club 'a' to protect the guilty,
> >> where we kept
> >> getting the cold shoulder from the booking guy.
> >> Nothing we tried (all
> >> five of us tried different things) worked. Then one
> >> day we were
> >> thinking about the issue and decided to try a bit of
> >> social
> >> engineering on the club goob.
> >>
> >> Here is what we did. We took out a half page ad in
> >> the Independent
> >> that had a great picture of the band and lots of
> >> cool looking flashy
> >> graphics and fonts. All of it meaningless. We then
> >> snagged all the
> >> copies we could find and cut out the ad. We then
> >> mailed (snail mail)
> >> 45 copies of this advert from 45 different people
> >> (all legit people)
> >> and then followed up with a telephone call a week
> >> later.
> >>
> >> This club goob was salivating to get us in the door.
> >> He thought that
> >> he was gonna make loads of money so he was suddenly
> >> our best friend.
> >> He even gave the band a $200 bar tab AND $500 for
> >> performing.
> >>
> >> This one little lesson should give you all you need
> >> to break into the
> >> local scene.
> >>
> >> Just remember:
> >> Flash over substance - if you are an amazing band
> >> with exceptional
> >> musicians, don't mention this fact. Instead, play
> >> down the level of
> >> musicianship and instead find lots of adjectives
> >> which mean nothing
> >> but average people will think you are cool.
> >>
> >> Nothing means something - The less you say, the more
> >> people wanna
> >> know.
> >>
> >> Take every opportunity to impress a club goob with
> >> your business
> >> acumen. Even if you suck at it, make the club goob
> >> THINK that you
> >> will make them money.
> >>
> >> It's a cruel world out there so cruel actions are
> >> needed to survive.
> >> It's either that or just hold your own parties and
> >> forget the clique-
> >> ish club scene.
> >> alt.music.chapel-hill --
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
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