Zen Frisbee
Nate Florin!
The person who reviewed "Mad As Faust" by Zen Frisbee for WXYC did such a
great job that I decided to reprint it here without his permission.
Information wants to be free, no?
Paragraph number two and the start of number three show why I (and other
Hillians) have such mixed emotions about this band.
DISCLAIMER: I am the author of none of the following. Just copying. I'm
leaving a name off because I haven't consulted with him about whether or
not I can do this, so I don't know if he wants the general public to be
aware of his sentiments.
-Nate Florin
**************************************************************************
This CD is where you'll hear ZF play their clearest and most sober. At
first it seems like the production even passes the point of diminishing
returns. Rudimentarily, ZF plays mid-eastern, Led Zep/XYC/Pink Floyd
Interstellar Overdrive influenced music with the murky (oily) lyrics of
sexy Brian Walker which are delivered through a variety of like sounding
conventions so that it seems like he's singing through a bullet mike or
megaphone at times. He has a talent for random words and phrases that are
overrepeated and capture the intended feeling.
At this incarnation, ZF is the culmination of 8 or so years of Chapel Hill
hanging out. Several members of this band are psychic vampires whose
nocturnal presence has sapped the fun out of parties I'm at and made
people say the word "scene" in most casual conversations. If these
creatures have stolen the essence vitale, they give some of it back in
their music and live shows, which are many. Now, the doomed Flavor
Contra/Craig Zearfois backed CD manuver delivers a deceptive jewel to an
unreceptive audience?
This is a golden hour in Chapel Hill's musical life. The golden hour just
before sundown. As our rockers grow old remember who are the creatures of
the night. This sounds pretty good like "I Want to Go Home," but turn it
up x3, listen to it 3 times, and the magic is evident. Andrew Maltbie's
bass, a pair of brothers on guitars, beleagured Clint C on drums and BW
are a band in the true sense of the word.
Ben Coakley
had even heard the new ZF, let alone liked it. I dunno, though, your
reviewer sounds like they haven't been to a whole lot of live shows, or
just didn't feel like comparing them live to them on CD. The CD sounds
so... spatula-inspired. mellow. lethargic. It's not nearly so good as
their Captured Live session (which I'm sure nobody has heard so why
bother). Or maybe it is as good, and I'm just not getting what I wanted
out of it. Anyhow, don't expect it to blow you away, but it's nice
pleasant listening in a way I though ZF never would be, and it doesn't
signify the end of the scene as we know it either.
_________________________________________________________________
| I can't think of anything original. I'm only good in support. |
|_________________ -Rosencrantz ________________________________|
Ben Coakley |______________| bcoa...@email.unc.edu
Todd Morman
>The person who reviewed "Mad As Faust" by Zen Frisbee for WXYC did such a
>great job that I decided to reprint it here without his permission.
Well, start with a mistake . . .
>Paragraph number two and the start of number three show why I (and other
>Hillians) have such mixed emotions about this band.
Nate, you've made comments like this before, and for the life of me I
still don't know what you mean by them, even after reading the paragraphs
you mention.
The rest of you see if you can figure it out (quote of review starts
here):
>This CD is where you'll hear ZF play their clearest and most sober. At
>first it seems like the production even passes the point of diminishing
>returns.
Well, I'll agree on the clearest and most sober part. The sound on the CD
is surprisingly clear and, well, precise. I'd kinda thought of Zen Frisbee
as a studio band before (the Kaunji Kaunji Christmas 7" proved that for
me), but they really pulled out some stops on this one; the production is
positively lovingly done.
[Easy use of 60's references and nod to Laird's "mid-eastern" guitar
noodling, along with an opinion about Brian's vocal treatments, which I
always liked better on record than live, snipped out]
>[Brian] has a talent for random words and phrases that are
>overrepeated and capture the intended feeling.
Yeah, I've always liked his lyrics, slightly surreal, menacing, but kinda
cuddly, too.
Ok, here's where the paragraph Nate referred to starts:
>At this incarnation, ZF is the culmination of 8 or so years of Chapel Hill
>hanging out.
This is funny, and true. If ever a group of guys defined "locals", these
guys are it.
>Several members of this band are psychic vampires whose
>nocturnal presence has sapped the fun out of parties I'm at
What the fuck is this? Besides bullshit, and insulting, that is. Nate
never should have posted it without checking with the author, IMO. Either
give the freaking specific charges, or cut the dissing. And don't use
someone else's words to hide behind, you know? Or speak for "other
Hillians", either.
Look, Zen Frisbee don't need me to defend them from crap like the
above, but I just can't let it sit there unaddressed, since I have good
feelings for most of them and a hell of a lot of respect for their
various talents. So, for the record, here's what I know of these
"psychic vampires":
Matt Schofield, Tom Laney and I interviewed Laird for a documentary we did
for cable access (he's an amazing sculptor and artist and I mean that word
amazing as well as a really sweet, thoughtful guy who I have never seen
knowingly hurt anyone). He talked about doing his art on his own terms in
a shy, unpretentious way, and showed us how he makes some of his pieces.
If you never had the chance to walk through the shrine that was his
bedroom, you need to borrow the tape and check out what he did with it.
Call it Baroque Surrealism, Yves Tanguy tripping in Duke Chapel, or Dali
getting mugged in the alley behind 506. Kevin, the other guitarist, is
also a hilarious cartoonist and satirist who's getting his first comic
published with Eric Knisley this spring, and he's *always* thoughtful,
kind and funny when I see him in the Videodrome (like today, for
instance). I know certain silver-mini-dress-wearing lurkers have some
romantic stories about some of the boys, but my only experiences with
Brian have been 1) refereeing a fascinating late-night party converstation
between him and Mac about the merits of Superchunk's music--if I had a
tape of it I'd start a label just to release that, and 2) drunkenly
stumbling into him and wandering into a rave at 506 together a few years
back. Both times he was cool to hang around with. Clint I first saw modern
dancing in a piece written by a friend of mine about coming out as gay at
Carolina (not to be construed as a statement about Clint, of course), and
I was totally impressed by his acting/moving and wasn't surprised to find
out recently he's also doing film stuff. I think he's a great drummer. And
Andy, aside from helping anchor one of the tightest rock bands in town
(FDPHaroahs) handled being kidnapped and held by a gun-wielding drug
addict a while back (remember that, anyone?) just fine, thank you.
None of this, of course, has much to do with the relative merits of the
CD, which *will* be requested a lot on XYC, I'm sure (and not just by
vampires) and which I like a whole lot. The songs are great. But Nate, I
have never understood this attitude coming from you about what you once
called "the Trash end of the local spectrum". Please. Like Zen Frisbee is
so fucking cool around town your feelers get hurt when you're at the same
party as them? I mean, what the fuck is *that*?
Man, this is getting long, so I'll continue it later, especially since
I'm mad and we all know no good comes of posts posted in anger, right?
Fuck. Anyone else remember Cheese Pope?
todd congrats Nate on the most blatant act of psychic vampirism yet on
this group morman
muci...@unity.ncsu.edu
Nate posted of Zen Frisbee.
by then end of it, it would have been easy to infer that Todd was
implying that Nate actually wrote the review in question, but I didn't
think he did.
In fact, the style and the specific comments gave me the distinct
impression that speet wrote it.
But perhaps I'm wrong too.
In any case, I took it with a grain of salt and laughed at it and knowing
nothing about the various members of ZF *except* that they've each been
cool to me on the rare occasions I've spoken to one or more of them, I
didn't take any of it as true in anything but some odd metaphorical sense.
gosh, Todd. what I don't understand is why you're pissed at Nate. What
the fuck did he do? are you gonna be more or less pissed at me when *I*
actually review the disc, or at my publisher for publishing it?
ross
Nate Florin
Ross wrote:
> A lot of stuff that Todd wrote in some weird anger thing about the review
> Nate posted of Zen Frisbee.
>
> by then end of it, it would have been easy to infer that Todd was
> implying that Nate actually wrote the review in question, but I didn't
> think he did.
Todd didn't imply that. He was saying that I was trying to say something
without putting myself on the line by saying it in my own words.
> In fact, the style and the specific comments gave me the distinct
> impression that speet wrote it.
No.
> But perhaps I'm wrong too.
Yes.
> In any case, I took it with a grain of salt and laughed at it and knowing
> nothing about the various members of ZF *except* that they've each been
> cool to me on the rare occasions I've spoken to one or more of them, I
> didn't take any of it as true in anything but some odd metaphorical sense.
>
> gosh, Todd. what I don't understand is why you're pissed at Nate. What
> the fuck did he do? are you gonna be more or less pissed at me when *I*
> actually review the disc, or at my publisher for publishing it?
No, the deal is is that I shouldn't have posted what look like personal
attacks when they are against the modemless and also irrelevant and
finally uncalled for. Consider me chastised and feeling very bad.
I mean, I was under no obligation to post the review. I didn't post
Speight's Mind Sirens review or the Spatula review or anything, so this is
just stupid this thing. If posting reviews was a tradition then the "I
didn't write it" excuse works, but here it doesn't. I wasn't meaning to
use it, but I see how it could look like I was.
It's kind of weird for me to defend somebody who was attacking me, no?
He also said I shouldn't have posted the review without prior
consultation, which normally I would agree with, but here I know the
author fairly well, knew he wouldn't care, and knew he reads the group so
I wasn't trying to sneak one by him. Also, it was already in a pretty
public arena, as WXYC has 80 DJs who are free to quote the review over the
air to our 50,000 listeners.
But that is all. I didn't mean it as a vicious personal attack, I just
thought it was really funny. But I still should have kept quiet.
Heading to lurk mode until I return to Gentle Nate,
Obnoxious Nate
Tom
I DID NOT WRITE THE REVIEW OF THE ZEN FRISBEE DISC.
dan partridge wrote it and he wants people to know that he did. he was
very proud of the review and thinks zen frisbee is the best ever chapel
hill band.
you see, by posting the review anonymously, it was left up to people to,
like ross, infer that *I* wrote it. in fact, it got back to zen frisbee
that *I* was dissing them on the internet. HUH? i have said nothing about
them in months.
so people, please be responsible. i had some really bizarre
confrontations with individual members of zen frisbee trying to explain
that i really do like them and their cd.
they probably thought i was covering my ass or something. reminds me of
another charlie speight disses local band incident that i endured much
earlier in the life of this list.
Timber Wolf "A few people are trying to control radio, just
spe...@email.unc.edu like the government is trying to control the masses"
-Merle Haggard
muci...@unity.ncsu.edu
> stop it, ross.
>
> I DID NOT WRITE THE REVIEW OF THE ZEN FRISBEE DISC.
All I said, just once, was that something in the tone and the specifics
had led me to think it might be you, and that I could be wrong. That was
it. Afterwards, Nate said it wasn't, and I said okay. All this transpired
over one 24-hour period, which only makes the following more interesting.
> dan partridge wrote it and he wants people to know that he did. he was
> very proud of the review and thinks zen frisbee is the best ever chapel
> hill band.
cool. I think that Dan Partridge is psychotic, but that's cuz he's always
trying to kill me/run me over with a bike/throw shit at me. I think *he*
is the best ever chapel hill band.
> you see, by posting the review anonymously, it was left up to people to,
> like ross, infer that *I* wrote it. in fact, it got back to zen frisbee
> that *I* was dissing them on the internet. HUH? i have said nothing about
> them in months.
A-ha! *like* me! See, I didn't think that my inference led other people
to believe it was you, but rather I thought like other people that it was
you. Understood. It was a stylistic thing, based in part on your DTH
reviews that I've read. Obviously you and Partridge have more in common
than your band. interesting.
however, the really interesting thing here is that, as I said a couple
hours ago, *This stuff will get back to people!* Those of you who didn't
believe me, believe me now! those ZF kids, loveable as they are,
certainly never post to this list, but they obviously are connected
enough to get word rather quickly that *someone* who was mistaken for sp8
had said things about 'em.
so keep that in mind, kiddies.
>
> so people, please be responsible. i had some really bizarre
> confrontations with individual members of zen frisbee trying to explain
> that i really do like them and their cd.
>
> they probably thought i was covering my ass or something. reminds me of
> another charlie speight disses local band incident that i endured much
> earlier in the life of this list.
>
aw hell, man, that was a learning experience for all of us. you died for
our sins.
we love you
ross
muci...@unity.ncsu.edu
>
> Todd didn't imply that. He was saying that I was trying to say something
> without putting myself on the line by saying it in my own words.
>
parenthetical remark about how you thought the review got to the heart of
your and many peoples' ambivalence towards ZF. Okay. well, you should've
been more, um, careful? no. I still don't see the problem.
>
> No, the deal is is that I shouldn't have posted what look like personal
> attacks when they are against the modemless and also irrelevant and
> finally uncalled for. Consider me chastised and feeling very bad.
nonsense. if we all took similar precautions, then this list would be
trafficless. more importantly, to discuss Zen Frisbeen without discussing
their role in the party scene, whether as psychic vampires or not, is
difficult to say the least. More importantly still, to attack you for
reposting it, for whatever reason, is silly. What if you'd said "look at
what this rude person said about ZF, aren't they rude?"? would that have
been different? shouldn't be. . .
> I mean, I was under no obligation to post the review. I didn't post
> Speight's Mind Sirens review or the Spatula review or anything, so this is
> just stupid this thing. If posting reviews was a tradition then the "I
> didn't write it" excuse works, but here it doesn't. I wasn't meaning to
> use it, but I see how it could look like I was.
posting XYC reviews isn't a tradition, but posting reviews, both our own
and others of interest, is. as keeper of the FAQ, I hereby declare this.
I've got the archives to prove it, and I've got Chris's post of that
Archers review as well. of course, we're all technically violating
copyright, but whos' counting?
> But that is all. I didn't mean it as a vicious personal attack, I just
> thought it was really funny. But I still should have kept quiet.
no, you shouldn't have kept quiet. you thought it was really funny (as
did I) and that's reason enough. geez.
it's not like ZF need extra protection anyway. and if we worried about
whether or not the objects of our discussion were wired or not, we'd 1)
never get to say anything, and 2) be pretty damn surprised to learn how
far our little comments get, actually. I hear all about things I've said
from certain unwired people who've gotten it from other sources.
plus, there are a goodly number of lurkers here, more than you know, with
ties to the local music scene. Hell, Elmo popped up last night unexpectedly.
so it's safe to assume that anyone who wants to know what's said here
knows. and it's also safe to assume (and here is the tough one) that
*anyone* you mention, no matter how luddite, or how far away, will read
or hear what you say about 'em.
let's all keep that in mind.
but let's not let that stop us from saying anything, either.
ross open forum, free exchange, it's just words, man grady
muci...@unity.ncsu.edu
Okay, so it took a little while, but I've finally got my copy of "I'm as
Mad as Faust" and while I'm gonna reserve the real review for my column
in a couple of weeks, I will say now that the first few minutes of it are
totally knocking my skull in. This is a band who have consistenly caved
my face in every fucking time I've seen them, even at places like the
NCMS where they didn't get rolling till their next-to-last song.
and "Marsha," at least, rocks my head.
I'm liable to do the unthinkable and make comparisons between this record
and the Spatula record in the paper, and get everybody mad at me.
fuckit. All I wanted to say at this juncture was that ZF are the first
hip cool scene band in recent memory to give props to all three area
college stations, WXYC, WXDU, and WKNC, in their liner notes. So I will
simply say that we preciate the mention, and that if we do play
"Rakeisha" a lot, it's first and foremost because we love it, and only
incidentally because it's long enough for us to go pee and buy a soda during.
and I play "action slacks" even more, and it's too short to do either one
during. so there.
these fuckers deserve the bigshit label attention. much of the talk about
them lurking around the scene for eight years doesn't make the following
explicit enough: This is one tight band. Damn. we should all move into
smelly houses and practice our asses off for eight years if the end
result is this pleasant.
ross
Rain of the Jaguarundi
DID write the ZF review.
this is common knowledge at the station, which of course is supposed to be
the center of the hip universe so supposedly everythig that happens there is
instantly known all the way out on the far spoke of the Great Web of the Scene.
-shoffnoir
muci...@unity.ncsu.edu
they've discovered another "next big deadly street drug"! remember Ice,
anybody? I didn't think so), listening to "Dolphin" too loud and suddenly
all the lights go out for a minute.
they come back on, the computer reboots, and all is silent for a moment.
Then, faintly but clearly, from elsewhere in the house comes the
unmistakeable strains of Neil Young's "Cry No Tears" from Zuma.
I poke my head around the corner. nobody else home.
Somebody up there digs classic rock more than Zen Frisbee. Go figure.
ross
john s. hughes
As a former member of ZF I have the following comments, which come from
1) a single listen to the pre-CD tape out of cheap speakers in Brian's
room, and 2) too many years of boiling ramen noodles in a hot pot but too
drunk so I didnt eat them but meanwhile I was thinking, is that good
songs? is that good songs? Now hoping, vicariously, that they please will
put out good songs & be famous to justify people like me, who bailed. Even
tho they declared me KIA, ZF is a great band,
whatever that cliche is sposed to mean, and anyone who like them will always
feel
mixed feelings b/c they will always put out mixed product, b/c thats how
their mechanism works and its efficient so long as once in a while a
great song comes out-- since most other bands cannot make a single
great song. Few in Chapel Hill
consists of people who have gone through as much to get to where they
are [which is still mostly nowhere], in terms of working at lousy jobs,
getting older, starting to
realize just how low the practical odds really are of getting signed, or
even of getting songs that will last once the stupid froth of this or
that scene wears off and goes its way and all of us who thought we were
a part of it wake up bland again, watching TV in Winston-Salem. Of
course, bands could endure just
that, and then proceed to put out lousy music, but ZF puts out excellent
music. They are more a studio than a live band because Laird's
arpeggiated fingerpicking guitar style resists precise definition in the
brutalized too loud too distorted situation of a club. He makes his
patterns in his mind first, and his mind is quiet, like the white space
in his paintings. Then you have to
blend that guitar with Kevin's which also needs definition-space, and
independence in the mix. With
Brian, what is said is probably as important as how its said, and of
course you cant hear whats said in a club. Finally the band built its
style out of about a decade of rambling about on 4 tracks and 8 tracks,
therefore views the studio as primary not an appendage.
The CD includes fully realized and original rock songs and pop
songs, and several apparent
failures. Maybe some of the seeming failures are just stuff meant to be
funny and illogical, but the tendency to interpret all failures into
successes must be resisted [cf most contemporary painting]. Any ZF product
will include failed experiments b/c the band has to experiment. The
production is at times too given over to unnecessary tricks that
take
away more than they add, like shadows which detract more than they add to
lines in a drawing. In particular there is no need for the various abrasions
and fuzz
effects on Brians vocals-- there are better ways to efface the voice, if
thats what he wants to do-- e.g. slur or set voice lower
in the mix. Brian's gains in range and control as the
loudness that he sings at decreases--another reason why the
I-sing-thru-a-5-dollar-mike effects are not worth it, since they increase
loudness. Finally Brian's lyrics are usually impeccable and deserve to be
heard. Since his lyrics have a mood so often of bluff and doubt-- lets
say aggressive guilt, or confessional otherness--,
its probable that he is unsure or cynical about exposing his voice and
thus his art all the way, and so he occasionally buries the voice as to
form in the fuzz. That goes along w/ a habit of writing lines that
mean nothing, but who knows maybe the dread-mood gains from the tactic
of burying content in incoherence and cynical non sequitur.
But no one has his ability to convey a mood of mixed dread,
guilt, realism, and contemporaneity out of actual charisma. It helps that
L is a painter as well as a musician, & B writer as well, K comic strip
artist as well-- & last I knew him A videographer-- so they
crosspollinate. The band
exists as a continuing [from ZF, thru Brava, thru Cheese Pope, back
to ZF] answer to the question: What is possible in music
today aside from rap? Its in the end difficult and likely incorrect to
call ZF the beginning of the end or
consign them to scenesterism merely b/c they are still doing today what
is so durn hard to do: that is, make art-- if theyre the start of
the end its our end too. When ZF started c. early to
mid 80s all there was in Chapel Hill was bands who wanted to be anything
besides Chapel Hillians-- Then once Laird and Brian quit
high school and Kevin started wearing plastic dinosaurs and
quit UNC, Chapel Hill weathered an unending
onslaught of REM imitations. And you'd find true pockets of authenticity
except wedded not to making something new but instead just to keeping
some totally dead form going like rockabilly. Now its the early 90s and
the alternative is itself a sort of mainstream w/ its own inherent
mediocrities and false prophets. Now the town has its own
legitimate standalone sounds and tones and interiority and a
discourse which needs no other external referents-- for
instance this discussion group shows that Chapel Hill is where
an artist could really be a Chapel Hill artist, or thinker--
not just a some other time, some other place wannabe.
Conclusion: Hopefully, at this point a major label
will sign them and they can spread their wings a little
J S Hughes
muci...@unity.ncsu.edu
> look, people, time to get off of charlie's johnson on this - dan partridge
> DID write the ZF review.
>
other day, and even then I only suggested it might've been. damn.
> this is common knowledge at the station, which of course is supposed to be
> the center of the hip universe so supposedly everythig that happens there is
> instantly known all the way out on the far spoke of the Great Web of the Scene.
>
no, no, my friend, that won't happen till you get that XT network
hardwired directly onto the backbone.
ross
Todd Morman
I'm calm now.
My only point about Nate's post was that it contained a sweeping dis of
some people I happen to like and am somewhat friendly with. That's it.
There was no way I was going to let that (to use Nate's own word)
obnoxious garbage just sit there. Rest assured I'd do the same if someone
came up to me and dissed Nate. And, Ross, dear, I've already done it for
you (calling Robert Altman a "paranoid megalomanaic" does seem to have
stirred up your print persona's enemies). Not looking for kudos here, just
stating a fact--I don't like it when people insult my friends.
I know Dan, and I know his psychotic and loveable sense of humor. Still,
what the hell was the point of including an insult in a review? I know, I
know, he was trying to be funny . . .
Which made Nate's (to me) gleeful posting/highlighting of the thing all
the more rude. It just smacked too much of the high school my crowd/your
crowd scene Ross once wrote fills this town. I hate that shit, hated it
then and hate it even more now. If folks put half as much energy into
going up to someone they don't know and saying "hi how bout that Heavenly
Creatures great film huh?" instead of perpetuating artificial barriers and
dissing people from across the street, we'd all be a lot better off.
Also, I have no problem with reposting reviews in general, although I
definitely think one should check with the author if the original context
could be considered even slightly relevant. Which it definitely was here.
One thing's clear: those without regular access to the group can't *help*
but feel this group's sort of elitist (a charge they'd see was untrue as
soon as they got hooked up but there's the rub eh?), and I know I'd sure
be curious and a bit antsy if I knew folks were writing about me but
wasn't able to read it myself. I don't know if anyone was "antsy" or not,
but I have experienced having to explain something someone else said on
the group as if I were somehow partially responsible. Yeah, it sucks, but
lots of things suck so what the hell.
One other thing I hope my unfocused ramble about the members of Zen
Frisbee made clear: the "psychic vampire" thing (sucking lifeblood out of
a scene and leaving nothing in return) is total bullshit. I mean, insults
can be on target and still be insulting/rude, but this insult was not
only rude, but also totally off base.
todd you wanted maybe I should *not* address that? morman
muci...@unity.ncsu.edu
night that he was running around outside in a shirt but no jacket. Mark
my words, as someone who's been sick since before Xmas, you don't want to
tempt fate like that.
I also want to point out, in deference to the subject line, that I think
I'm allergic to N'Ice cough drops because I got home last night and
couldn't sleep because my mind was racing out of control (this happens to
some peoples' hearts, and believe me it's just as scary when it's your
brain) and just babbling on to itself at high speeds a whole garble of
nonsense and Zen Frisbee seemed to have a part in it but I'm not sure what.
Last time this happened (here is the perhaps connection) I had been
drinking some codeine cough syrup (I had pneumonia, okay?) and I saw
Jonathan Richman and when I got home I lay there in bed sweating while my
mind uncontrollably ran through "Ice Cream Man" by Mr. Richman, fast and
slow, over and over, from about midnight till about 7:00 a.m.
There is something about cherry flavored cough remedy which fucks my
brain up in a terrifying way.
But even after all that, I must say that "I'm as Mad as Faust" wins my
prize. I've not yet reviewed the Jesuschrist stuff (that's this month)
and I can tell you now, while I love the Pipe and like the Spatula, the
Zen Frisbee for me is in a whole nother league. My hand naturally heads
for it on the stack of things to play. So watch for this cookie, at
least, to be saying kind words about messirs Dixon and Co. in print in a
couple weeks.
argh. allright. the students are back. I've got real-world socializing to do.
ross
JELLY23456
it's been a while. Cool stuff !