Q: Christian "black metal" Bands

[Soft Yours]

Q: Why would a Christian Band choose to describe their music as BLACK
METAL?

I was searching the WEB awhile back and came across several bands entitled
"Christian black/death/power Metal." ANTESTOR from Norway claim to be
BLACK METAL CHRISTIANS ??!!

Has anyone else seen any other xtian bands using the description of BLACK
METAL? If so, I'd be interested in knowing WHO these bands are and WHERE
I can locate them. Thanks for your assistance.

[Sybren]

HORDE is a reputed xian BM band, they're on Nuclear Blast. Their "Hellig
Usvart" CD isn't bad, generic, Darkthrone-ish solid BM. Hilarious song titles
like "Invert The Inverted Cross" are included. IMO Horde should be seen as a
parody on the modern BM scene, although a well thought out one.

Sybren, de dwalende Ruiter in het Westerwoud.

[Eric]

In article <51derc$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,

soft...@aol.com (Soft Yours) wrote:
>Q: Why would a Christian Band choose to describe their music as
BLACK
>METAL?
>
>I was searching the WEB awhile back and came across several bands
entitled
>"Christian black/death/power Metal." ANTESTOR from Norway claim
to be
>BLACK METAL CHRISTIANS ??!!
>
>Has anyone else seen any other xtian bands using the description
of BLACK
>METAL? If so, I'd be interested in knowing WHO these bands are
and WHERE
>I can locate them. Thanks for your assistance.
>

Huh? A "Black Metal Christian" band is an oxymoron! "Black" metal
means essentially "Satanic Metal". There are some Odinist and
Asatru Metal bands that are assumed under the Black Metal banner
(i.e. Enslaved). I knew that the stupde Christians were trying to
write "Christian Death Metal" Ha! But this is ridiculous...

Silly Xtians .. Jesus is for Jews

Eric

[Cadaver Man]

soft...@aol.com (Soft Yours) wrote:

>Q: Why would a Christian Band choose to describe their music as BLACK
>METAL?

>I was searching the WEB awhile back and came across several bands entitled
>"Christian black/death/power Metal." ANTESTOR from Norway claim to be
>BLACK METAL CHRISTIANS ??!!

>Has anyone else seen any other xtian bands using the description of BLACK
>METAL? If so, I'd be interested in knowing WHO these bands are and WHERE
>I can locate them. Thanks for your assistance.

There's a Christian "Black Metal" band called HORDE that Nulear Blast
released in 1994. The album is called "Hellig Usvart" and the one guy in
the band goes by the name "Anonymous" .

Bludgeoning Bipeds Everywhere With The Extremes Of Sound

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

soft...@aol.com (Soft Yours) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:

>Q: Why would a Christian Band choose to describe their music as BLACK
>METAL?

Christianity is the realm of the weak; Christians react in fear to any
divergent dogma and consequently strive to re-establish normative
procedure to eliminate variation. Their purity must be preserved, so
they create (in their opposite taxonomy) a category for the newcomer
as "Christian" (anti-propaganda) plus the title of the original genre.

>I was searching the WEB awhile back and came across several bands entitled
>"Christian black/death/power Metal." ANTESTOR from Norway claim to be
>BLACK METAL CHRISTIANS ??!!

They should die on crosses. Metal fans who care about the future of
their genre should consider boycotting all "christian" or "jewish"
forms of popular music as the propaganda conspiracy the material is,
as they should in the same breath reject political music, like
white-power bands or pro-gay bands like F.A.G.G.O.T. Those who seek
to use our genre for their own weakness - political ends - are
acknowledged by those who know as they crap they are and bypassed in
favor of cooler stuff.

GOAT

Walk into evil's lair...
<http://www.anus.com/> 666

[MetalMag]

>Huh? A "Black Metal Christian" band is an oxymoron! "Black" metal

<<No, it isn't. If they worship the xian Satan (what other Satans there
<<are?), they are xian black metal. Most bands don't exactly know which
<<Satan is cool at the moment, so this is not really important.

Metal Fest Magazine writes:
ANTESTOR does not worship the xtian Satan...
I wrote to Adric who runs the ANTESTOR Web page and asked him WHY the band
was using the term "christian black metal" to describe their music and he
replied....

"Because they are Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ and they
happen to play black metal music. Since "black metal" is only really
describing the style of music why shouldn't Christians use that media
as well? To say black metal is based upon lyrically, then by that
standard Mercyful Fate would be black metal and so would Deicide but
as we both know neither of these groups are black metal. Black metal
are bands like Antestor, Horde, Summoning, Dimmu Borgir, Absu,
Satyricon, etc."

Adric
---------
<bible quoting sniped>

I would appreciate your comments regarding the above as I'm working on an
article which is similiar (categorizing metal), please email your comments
to Meta...@aol.com or post to this newsgroups. Thanks!

Carmi

Metal Fest Magazine
360-23 W Schick Road,
Suite 116, Bloomingdale, IL 60108

[Ville Vainio]

sa...@onramp.net (Eric) writes:

>Huh? A "Black Metal Christian" band is an oxymoron! "Black" metal

No, it isn't. If they worship the xian Satan (what other Satans there
are?), they are xian black metal. Most bands don't exactly know which
Satan is cool at the moment, so this is not really important.

>Silly Xtians .. Jesus is for Jews

Huh?
--
Ville Vainio - v15...@cc.tut.fi (v15...@cs.tut.fi valid during 1996)
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~v153286 (again during 1996, old URL also works)

[Richard Stuart]

In article <51k3je$g...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> meta...@aol.com
"MetalMag" writes:

> I wrote to Adric who runs the ANTESTOR Web page and asked him WHY the band
> was using the term "christian black metal" to describe their music and he
> replied....
>
> "Because they are Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ and they
> happen to play black metal music. Since "black metal" is only really
> describing the style of music why shouldn't Christians use that media
> as well? To say black metal is based upon lyrically, then by that
> standard Mercyful Fate would be black metal and so would Deicide but
> as we both know neither of these groups are black metal. Black metal
> are bands like Antestor, Horde, Summoning, Dimmu Borgir, Absu,
> Satyricon, etc."
>
> Adric
> ---------
> <bible quoting sniped>
>
> I would appreciate your comments regarding the above as I'm working on an
> article which is similiar (categorizing metal), please email your comments
> to Meta...@aol.com or post to this newsgroups. Thanks!

Well, I think it's safe to say that Adric formulates words with his
backside. Black metal is dark music which conveys feelings of darkness,
solitude, misanthropy, and melancholy. Eric was right... Christian Black
Metal is an oxymoron, because a Christian band who loves the Lord Jesus
Christ is hardly going to want to offer the listener such dark
emotion... their intent is completely the opposite. Burzum is black
metal, yet no Burzum lyrics are Satanic (as far as I know, that is...
I still haven't got Burzum or Aske yet. But the later albums definitly
aren't Satanic). But the music of Burzum is dark, cold, and all the
other black metal cliches which sound silly when repeated but are
the best words to describe it. A Christian band may have competent
musicians, and may be able to convey atmosphere, but calling it
"black metal" makes me question their motives very strongly.

-Ricks

_________________________________________________________________
NO FUN... NO CORE... NO MOSH... NO TRENDS

"The urge... so strong, to do the devil's work..." -Darkthrone
_________________________________________________________________

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

CRUCIFY THE CHRISTIAN WHORES

DEATH TO THEM ALL

ENJOY THEIR PAIN

DRINK THE BLOOD

RAPE THE CORPSES

BURN HOMAGE TO THEIR DEAD GOD

AND FUCK ALL IMAGE OF PURITY

DESTROY EARTH

DESTROY DEATH.

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

I'm gonna hit all these comments in order...

HAIL TO ALL TRUE METAL WARRIORS
K.F.S. AND DEFEAT THE CHRISTIAN WHORED

meta...@aol.com (MetalMag) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:

><<No, it isn't. If they worship the xian Satan (what other Satans there
><<are?), they are xian black metal. Most bands don't exactly know which
><<Satan is cool at the moment, so this is not really important.

I think we must explain the difference in language here. "Black
metal," using the terminology of metal, explains the spirit of metal
as black, or evil. "Christian metal" on the other hand describes the
communicative essence of the music's function. So "Christian black
metal" would mean evil music that functions as Christian propaganda;
if we then invert the inversion to use their definition of "evil" as
"moronic negativity," it would work.

However, I only break out these lines for the sake of obfuscation.
It's clear that the entire "Christian metal" movement exists for one
sake only: to spread the message of their religion.

Metal as a whole is either more artistic or far more base than the
Christians. On one hand are the intellectuals who are always the
vanguard of metal composition, and on the other are the drunken
violent plebe warriors against order who destroy for the sake of
emotional turbulence. If we follow the philosophy revealed in the
choice of aesthetic and the communicative elements of metal, we find
it to be fundamentally deconstructionist, or anti-centralized-order,
where Christian metal hopes to be the key to a centralized order for
new listeners. Even the philosophy of anti-philosophy supports a
fundamentally different direction than the Christian philosophy
espouses: figure it out yerself. While Christianity and Christian
metal preach deference to a figure above, metal of all types has
always suggested an individualistic, naturalistic, mystic approach
toward individual pathways to determination.

Let us consider aesthetic. Deconstructionist aesthetic, including
distortion, broken-tempo drumming, violent exaggerated rhythmic
tendencies and vicious speed have always been part of the metal
aesthetic. What do these suggest? We must explore the other
compositional tools and then the lyrical clues to interpret these
textures.

I think anyone reading a moderate amount of metal would realize that
even with relapses, most metal bands are not only non-Christian but
are acting in non-Christian methods. Christianity has established
with their music that it must 1) promote a message and 2) speak the
word of God. Metal bands have established, with their chaotic
disgusting lyrics and random aesthetic approach (even to the point of
NEGATING musical structure in favor of aesthetic), that they favor
breakdown and no clear message, no form of control. Their music is as
anarchistic as the Christians' is centralized.

>Metal Fest Magazine writes:
>ANTESTOR does not worship the xtian Satan...

>I wrote to Adric who runs the ANTESTOR Web page and asked him WHY the band
>was using the term "christian black metal" to describe their music and he
>replied....

Standard replies. Watch:

>"Because they are Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ and they
>happen to play black metal music.

No mention of lyrical content. He has only mentioned that they love
Jesus Christ, so in his worldview OF COURSE they want to sing about
it.

In ours, the alienated metal fans of the world eyesocket on reality,
we can't imagine singing about a man who urges you to follow a law of
herd control.

>Since "black metal" is only really
>describing the style of music why shouldn't Christians use that media
>as well?

Typical Christian dogma: Thing has function, so why can't that
function be the function of the purchaser -- the buying Christian?

Answer: it's not a media, it is a style of music created by an
information structure in the head of the artist ON AN INDIVIDUAL
LEVEL, not a standardized central structure like Christiand dogma.
For this reason, it can be computed from any number of points, but its
ideas come together without the fundamental propagandist and
consumerist ideas of Christians.

>To say black metal is based upon lyric[s], then by that

>standard Mercyful Fate would be black metal and so would Deicide but
>as we both know neither of these groups are black metal.

Christians also believe in exclusive object, where thing = function
without possibility of multiple answers, or a complex answer over
time.

If black metal was STRICTLY limited to Satanic lyrics, lots of things
would be black metal. But nope, Satanic lyrics is just one attribute
of black metal and many other things, which is why absolute classing
makes no sense: attributes can be broken down into shared elements of
a thing, but it is the formula behind those attributes that will
distinguish the different entity.

>I would appreciate your comments regarding the above as I'm working on an
>article which is similiar (categorizing metal), please email your comments
>to Meta...@aol.com or post to this newsgroups. Thanks!

I think all metal fans have an interest in this issue. I see
Christian bands, White Power bands, or other
Political-Interest-Group-Here bands as being of the same ilk: people
who believe in subverting art's function to make it function clearly
in league with the ONE THING they believe in, the core function of all
existence in their worldview. For some this is gOD, but for others it
is the master race or maybe even victim status for a minority
group...the fundamental attribute is its intent: spread the virus of
definitiveness. But art speaks the other language: subvert, break
down, appreciate for ESSENTIAL rather than SURFACE (attribute)
qualities.

Altar of Unholy Blasphemy:
<http://www.anus.com/altar/>

Dark Legions Archive metal reviews:
<http://www.anus.com/metal/>

SUPPORT THE CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST

GOAT

[Mikko Saari]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>I'm gonna hit all these comments in order...

>HAIL TO ALL TRUE METAL WARRIORS
>K.F.S. AND DEFEAT THE CHRISTIAN WHORED

I'm sorry to say this but you sound bit stupid machobullshit bastard
like Manowar guys. But I have nothing against you, you just sounded
like that.

>However, I only break out these lines for the sake of obfuscation.
>It's clear that the entire "Christian metal" movement exists for one
>sake only: to spread the message of their religion.

I have read Count Grischnack or Euronymous (I don't remember which
one) saying that their music is made to spread their religion and
their black thoughts. So where's the difference?

>>"Because they are Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ and they
>>happen to play black metal music.

Well, I don't see anything wrong here...

>No mention of lyrical content. He has only mentioned that they love
>Jesus Christ, so in his worldview OF COURSE they want to sing about
>it.

I see nothing wrong if you're christian and play black metal, but
black metal is not for spreading Christian message. That's my opinion.
Singing about Jesus Christ is, well, stupid. And I mean it both ways.
I think things like Impaled Nazarene's 'Christ was crucified whore'
are just stupid childish things of which we all grown-up people should
get rid of.

>>To say black metal is based upon lyric[s], then by that
>>standard Mercyful Fate would be black metal and so would Deicide but
>>as we both know neither of these groups are black metal.

Black metal ain't based upon lyrics, I think. It's the atmosphere (of
which lyrics are part, of course). Just singing about killing
Christians and like doesn't make it black metal.

Mikko Saari <msa...@solutions.fi>
"The head is the head of a serpent"

[Eric Wheelock]

In article <rrv685e...@korppi.cs.tut.fi>,

v15...@korppi.cs.tut.fi (Ville Vainio) wrote:
>sa...@onramp.net (Eric) writes:
>
>>Huh? A "Black Metal Christian" band is an oxymoron! "Black"
metal
>

>No, it isn't. If they worship the xian Satan (what other Satans
there
>are?), they are xian black metal. Most bands don't exactly know
which
>Satan is cool at the moment, so this is not really important.

That's the whole point. I thought they were "praising and exalting
Jesus Christ" and claiming to be a Black Metal band. That would
point out one obvious thing ..They are trying to cash in on the
trend. Not surprising. I agree that there is a view of Satan as
the opposite of YHWH. There are many more views of Satan though
(i.e. Lucifer and Odhinn) in my opinion they are all equally valid.
Any band that claims to be Xian and wears corpse-paint is trying
for $$$$.

Eric

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

cri...@ix.netcom.com (Cadaver Man) took a fat hit off a pipe and
wrote:

>>Has anyone else seen any other xtian bands using the description of BLACK

>>METAL? If so, I'd be interested in knowing WHO these bands are and WHERE
>>I can locate them. Thanks for your assistance.

>There's a Christian "Black Metal" band called HORDE that Nulear Blast
>released in 1994. The album is called "Hellig Usvart" and the one guy in
>the band goes by the name "Anonymous" .

I am sure the forces of the CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST will find them soon
and exterminating them, bringing them closer to their roots as
earth-bound creatures. Perhaps "Herd" would have been a better name,
with "Eponymous" as the lead hoax!

Let's hear it for toasty Christians on Crosses!

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

sa...@onramp.net (Eric Wheelock) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:

>That's the whole point. I thought they were "praising and exalting
>Jesus Christ" and claiming to be a Black Metal band. That would
>point out one obvious thing ..They are trying to cash in on the
>trend. Not surprising. I agree that there is a view of Satan as
>the opposite of YHWH. There are many more views of Satan though
>(i.e. Lucifer and Odhinn) in my opinion they are all equally valid.
> Any band that claims to be Xian and wears corpse-paint is trying
>for $$$$.

This is very true; their inauthenticity makes them dubious proponents
of any moral or artistic value...

[Ville Vainio]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:

>>I have read Count Grischnack or Euronymous (I don't remember which
>>one) saying that their music is made to spread their religion and
>>their black thoughts. So where's the difference?
>

>To spread their black thoughts -- I remember him saying however that
>it was also, 'To stimulate the fantasy of mortals.' Let us ask this -
>were his motives pure? No, but was 'to spread a religion' even a
>major part? No - and we can tell this by seeing how the methods are
>different. Xians preach, where Burzum describes. His material is far
>more artistic than Christian "metal"!

Blah, they probably didn't give a shit about spreading anything. They
just told so to the media, in order to shock some worrying parents.
More probable motive would be to get something out from their minds,
which is far nobler a motive. Unlike xians, they aren't promised a
higher position in heaven for converting some poor souls.

It seems that the worst method for analyzing bm-motives is reading the
interviews. >:-]

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

mikko...@solutions.fi (Mikko Saari) took a fat hit off a pipe and
wrote:

>>HAIL TO ALL TRUE METAL WARRIORS

>>K.F.S. AND DEFEAT THE CHRISTIAN WHORED

>I'm sorry to say this but you sound bit stupid machobullshit bastard

>like Manowar guys. But I have nothing against you, you just sounded
>like that.

Thanks for the critique.

>>However, I only break out these lines for the sake of obfuscation.
>>It's clear that the entire "Christian metal" movement exists for one
>>sake only: to spread the message of their religion.

>I have read Count Grischnack or Euronymous (I don't remember which

>one) saying that their music is made to spread their religion and
>their black thoughts. So where's the difference?

To spread their black thoughts -- I remember him saying however that
it was also, 'To stimulate the fantasy of mortals.' Let us ask this -
were his motives pure? No, but was 'to spread a religion' even a
major part? No - and we can tell this by seeing how the methods are
different. Xians preach, where Burzum describes. His material is far
more artistic than Christian "metal"!

>>>"Because they are Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ and they

>>>happen to play black metal music.

>Well, I don't see anything wrong here...

Except that the Christians aren't dead. When they are dead, imagine
what a cool picture it will be!

>>No mention of lyrical content. He has only mentioned that they love
>>Jesus Christ, so in his worldview OF COURSE they want to sing about
>>it.

>I see nothing wrong if you're christian and play black metal, but

>black metal is not for spreading Christian message. That's my opinion.

In essence, 'suffocate in masturbation if you will attempt the
paradoxical' -- some sense, I suppose.

It must be hard to maintain selfrespect as a Christian "metal"
musician/propagandist.

>Singing about Jesus Christ is, well, stupid. And I mean it both ways.
>I think things like Impaled Nazarene's 'Christ was crucified whore'
>are just stupid childish things of which we all grown-up people should
>get rid of.

There is a complex information transfer in some of it, but stuff like
Impaled Nazarene is clearly PURE PROVOKATION.

>>>To say black metal is based upon lyric[s], then by that
>>>standard Mercyful Fate would be black metal and so would Deicide but
>>>as we both know neither of these groups are black metal.

>Black metal ain't based upon lyrics, I think. It's the atmosphere (of

>which lyrics are part, of course). Just singing about killing
>Christians and like doesn't make it black metal.

For sure. But playing black metal and _then_ killing Christians...ah,
that's a night of satisfaction!

>Mikko Saari <msa...@solutions.fi>
>"The head is the head of a serpent"

THE BREASTS ARE THE WAVES OF THE MOON SEA
DEAD SERPENTINE HOME OF THE DEVIL
WATCHING LIFELESS EARTH
MOCKING FUTILE DEATH

[Chris Sanders]

In <rrvd8zj...@proffa.cc.tut.fi> v15...@proffa.cc.tut.fi (Ville

Vainio) writes:
>
>Blah, they probably didn't give a shit about spreading anything. They
>just told so to the media, in order to shock some worrying parents.
>More probable motive would be to get something out from their minds,
>which is far nobler a motive. Unlike xians, they aren't promised a
>higher position in heaven for converting some poor souls.

A higher position in heaven? Gee, I'm a Christian and I've heard
nothing of the sort. What book have you been reading?

And just out of curiosity, is your hated purely refined for Christians
or do you hate all religious groups? I find your anger genuinely
amusing. Maybe you should find yourself and nice relaxing hobby. You
know, I don't find the game of basketball to be all that fun to play or
watch. The players get paid outrageous salaries. People waste their
money watching the games and buying the memorabilia. And it just
doesn't benefit society. I think I'll form a black basketball metal
band and sing songs about torturing and killing basketball players.
Yeah, it'll be cool. Or maybe I'll see it for what it is, let it be,
and try focusing on my own life.

XchrisX

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

v15...@proffa.cc.tut.fi (Ville Vainio) took a fat hit off a pipe and
wrote:

>It seems that the worst method for analyzing bm-motives is reading the
>interviews. >:-]

Ain't that the fuckin' truth... ;)-~

[Mikko Saari]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>different. Xians preach, where Burzum describes. His material is far
>more artistic than Christian "metal"!

Sure, I admit that.

>Except that the Christians aren't dead. When they are dead, imagine
>what a cool picture it will be!

Heh... I guess Deicide's "Kill Christian" or whatever it was must be
your favourite song ;)

>There is a complex information transfer in some of it, but stuff like
>Impaled Nazarene is clearly PURE PROVOKATION.

I think Impaled is one of those bands you shouldn't take too
seriously. But they have some right attitude, sure. Winter War is
great song...

>For sure. But playing black metal and _then_ killing Christians...ah,
>that's a night of satisfaction!

Well... That's your opinion and I respect it but that's not what I'm
going to do ;) Actually I should kill my self as I am Christian by the
means of law (I have been confirmed) but not really. I think myself as
atheist and I'm going to leave Christianity when I have to pay
taxes...

> Walk into evil's lair...
> <http://www.anus.com/> 666

Mikko Saari <msa...@solutions.fi>
"Perception is the lie of the misled"

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

real...@ix.netcom.com(Chris Sanders) took a fat hit off a pipe and
wrote:

>Or maybe I'll see it for what it is, let it be,

>and try focusing on my own life.

Not if you're a Christian...

GOAT

[John Swick P040]

In article <51nvgf$a...@jerry.loop.net>, CHRIST SODOMIZER <go...@anus.com> wrote:
>sa...@onramp.net (Eric Wheelock) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:
>
>>That's the whole point. I thought they were "praising and exalting
>>Jesus Christ" and claiming to be a Black Metal band. That would
>>point out one obvious thing ..They are trying to cash in on the
>>trend. Not surprising. I agree that there is a view of Satan as
>>the opposite of YHWH. There are many more views of Satan though
>>(i.e. Lucifer and Odhinn) in my opinion they are all equally valid.
>> Any band that claims to be Xian and wears corpse-paint is trying
>>for $$$$.

Except that they don't make beans. I'm a promoter, of sorts, and I
can tell you that the Christian metal bands are dirt cheap. Even some
of the "biggies" in that scene, Mortification for example, make
relatively little money on a show. Only one person in that band makes
any kind of subsistence from the band, and even then the band is only
part of what he does for a living. Trust me, any Christian metal band
with any semblance to black metal bands would be a lot better off
financially flipping burgers under the Golden Arches. Money is most
definitely not why they're in it.

---J. J.

--
**********************************************************************
J. J. Swick, E911 Software Design, Northern Telecom
(919) 991-8782, esn 294-8782
**********************************************************************

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

sw...@bnr.ca (John Swick P040) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:

> Except that they don't make beans. I'm a promoter, of sorts, and I
>can tell you that the Christian metal bands are dirt cheap. Even some
>of the "biggies" in that scene, Mortification for example, make
>relatively little money on a show. Only one person in that band makes
>any kind of subsistence from the band, and even then the band is only
>part of what he does for a living. Trust me, any Christian metal band
>with any semblance to black metal bands would be a lot better off
>financially flipping burgers under the Golden Arches. Money is most
>definitely not why they're in it.

I can't imagine that any other death metal bands have more favorable
circumstance, unless you're - say - Morbid Angel or DEATH. Ideology
and weakness is why they do it, the question is why do they keep doing
it?

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

mikko...@solutions.fi (Mikko Saari) took a fat hit off a pipe and
wrote:

>Thomas_M...@msn.com (Thomas Melaniphy) wrote:

>>Exactly how do you justify that there is nothing wrong with christians being
>>actively involved with music (or anything) that is fundamentially
>>ANTI-christian?

>I justify it with satanic principle 'do what you want' and so on. I
>guess if you're xian and don't mind being involved in music like that
>you can do it...

Then again, what would satanism say about using your own time to
spread someone else's message, word for word!

>>I didn't realize Tipper lived in Finland.

>Tipper who?

Tipper Gore is the wife of the vice-president in Amerikkka who has
worked very hard to get album censorship instituted for rap and metal
(which is slightly less offensive to her because it's less
economically viable and some of the people look white - not that I'm
bitter about the state of gov't in this place).

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

mikko...@solutions.fi (Mikko Saari) took a fat hit off a pipe and
wrote:

>go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>>different. Xians preach, where Burzum describes. His material is far
>>more artistic than Christian "metal"!

>Sure, I admit that.

That's all this difference is about. Metal is about art, and
political, directional entities like white power or Christianity
should stay out! But onward to the Deicide question:

>>Except that the Christians aren't dead. When they are dead, imagine
>>what a cool picture it will be!

>Heh... I guess Deicide's "Kill Christian" or whatever it was must be
>your favourite song ;)

No! Well, I like earlier Deicide a lot better. The new album is cool
and all, but it lacks the real power that the earlier stuff had - an
insane, vast and abstract conception. Now it's very fingers-feet type
music.

>>There is a complex information transfer in some of it, but stuff like
>>Impaled Nazarene is clearly PURE PROVOKATION.

>I think Impaled is one of those bands you shouldn't take too
>seriously. But they have some right attitude, sure. Winter War is
>great song...

An intensely political song about one of the least reported standoffs
in military history! HAIL FINLAND!

>Actually I should kill my self as I am Christian by the
>means of law (I have been confirmed) but not really. I think myself as
>atheist and I'm going to leave Christianity when I have to pay
>taxes...

I think taxes are as bad as Christianity. If you leave both behind
you will have more free time, at least.

The funny thing about TAXES is that in the USA, it's not legal to
collect a yearly income tax - a patch on the law allows it for now,
but no one has challenged its constitutionality.

[Rodney Longhurst]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:
>soft...@aol.com (Soft Yours) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:

>>Q: Why would a Christian Band choose to describe their music as BLACK
>>METAL?

Mainly after the music, and to attract listeners of conventional black
metal.

>Christianity is the realm of the weak; Christians react in fear to any
>divergent dogma and consequently strive to re-establish normative
>procedure to eliminate variation. Their purity must be preserved, so
>they create (in their opposite taxonomy) a category for the newcomer
>as "Christian" (anti-propaganda) plus the title of the original genre.

Too general and meaningless; may be applied to almost any social group.

>They should die on crosses. Metal fans who care about the future of
>their genre should consider boycotting all "christian" or "jewish"
>forms of popular music as the propaganda conspiracy the material is,
>as they should in the same breath reject political music, like
>white-power bands or pro-gay bands like F.A.G.G.O.T. Those who seek
>to use our genre for their own weakness - political ends - are
>acknowledged by those who know as they crap they are and bypassed in
>favor of cooler stuff.

Politics is not weakness. My view on art is that it is written entirely
for the artist. Therefore preaching, politicising, or image-mongering
reduces the integrity of the art. However, if a political issue is something
the artist feels strongly about, and writes about it, then this still
classifies as pure art if it is an expression of the artist to him or
her self.

Very few bands fit into the category of pure artists. Christian bands
preach deliberately to an audience, political bands the same, and black
metal bands are mostly image mongerers, in this most thoughtless, also
with some preaching (e.g. Marduk).

I long ago gave up on expecting to find great meaning in any lyrics.

Rodney

[Rodney Longhurst]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:
>mikko...@solutions.fi (Mikko Saari) wrote:

> Metal is about art, and
>political, directional entities like white power or Christianity
>should stay out!

&

>>I think Impaled is one of those bands you shouldn't take too
>>seriously. But they have some right attitude, sure. Winter War is
>>great song...

>An intensely political song about one of the least reported standoffs
>in military history! HAIL FINLAND!

Is the irony in this deliberate? Or are you going to claim political
versus pride or narration...

Rodney

[Rodney Longhurst]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:

>sa...@onramp.net (Eric Wheelock) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:

>> Any band that claims to be Xian and wears corpse-paint is trying
>>for $$$$.

>This is very true; their inauthenticity makes them dubious proponents

>of any moral or artistic value...

I would have thought that you would know better. Only a couple of 'true'
black metal bands make enough money to live on, so Christian black metal
bands can't even hope for this.

Virtually no bands understand what true art is, because people in general
are morons, and so the artistic value comes from the listeners
interpretation. To satisy the listener it must become relative rather
than absolute in terms of artisitc value.

Rodney

[Mikko Saari]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>Then again, what would satanism say about using your own time to
>spread someone else's message, word for word!

Well you're right... So let's stop this thread...

[Mikko Saari]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>No! Well, I like earlier Deicide a lot better. The new album is cool
>and all, but it lacks the real power that the earlier stuff had - an

Well, I don't like Deicide at all... but that just came to my mind...
Sounds like you ;)

>An intensely political song about one of the least reported standoffs
>in military history! HAIL FINLAND!

Yeah! And still the history books even in _Sweden_ say that Finland
was conquered by Russia in WWII...

[Ville Vainio]

mikko...@solutions.fi (Mikko Saari) writes:

>Yeah! And still the history books even in _Sweden_ say that Finland
>was conquered by Russia in WWII...

Do they? I think the solution of the war is known, but it's so
complex (ie Finland were allies of nazi-germany but still didn't
actually lose the war) that they have to simplify things.

PS. There has been a nice flamewar going on in soc.culture.nordic,
about whether Finns were evil nazi-allies or courageous heroes
defending their small country from evil russians. :P
--
Ville Vainio - vva...@cc.tut.fi Notice the NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!!!
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~v153286

[Ville Vainio]

real...@ix.netcom.com(Chris Sanders) writes:

>>which is far nobler a motive. Unlike xians, they aren't promised a
>>higher position in heaven for converting some poor souls.

>A higher position in heaven? Gee, I'm a Christian and I've heard
>nothing of the sort. What book have you been reading?

This is not something one would like to intellectualize... rather
something that floats in the air, can be heard from the words of the
xians. That's the way they THINK: if I'm all cool and nice, I'll get
5 points per day, and as soon as I score 150 pts, JHVH gives me a
cookie when I die. Converting someone gives 30 pts, or 20 if you have
to use torture or death-threats.

>And just out of curiosity, is your hated purely refined for Christians
>or do you hate all religious groups? I find your anger genuinely

I have no problem with other religions: they don't have any influence
in Finland, don't affect the way laws etc. are made. You are welcome
to worship any fucker you damn like, as long as that fucker doesn't
step on my feet through the acts of the worshippers.

Actually, what I can't stand are conservative people in general. It
just seems that that group is mostly made up of xians. When I saw the
document of "the christian right in america", I felt like supporting
THE CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST (all-uppercase spelling is correct, right?)
thoroughly. I get annoyed by most idiots in tv, though, so the xians
have a lot of company.

To get a novice lecture about why xians suck, read _The_satanic_bible_
by LaVey. You can come to the same conclusions all by yourself, but
it might speed up the thought process. If you really believe that
JHVH exist, it gets a bit more difficult. But if you have a seed of
doubt in you... just read it and think about it. Direct further
questions to GOAT ;-)

>amusing. Maybe you should find yourself and nice relaxing hobby. You

Yeah, perhaps I should start sniffing glue or reading the bible.

>know, I don't find the game of basketball to be all that fun to play or
>watch. The players get paid outrageous salaries. People waste their
>money watching the games and buying the memorabilia. And it just
>doesn't benefit society. I think I'll form a black basketball metal
>band and sing songs about torturing and killing basketball players.

Black metal is almost never about torturing xians. I don't follow the
bm-attitude, though, so your comment was misdirected.

At least we agree about one thing: basketball sucks. As do all the
other forms of spectator-sports. That would be really cool... I think there
should be a band that would sing about torturing sportsmen in general.
Especially Ice Hockey players. </sarcasm>

>Yeah, it'll be cool. Or maybe I'll see it for what it is, let it be,

>and try focusing on my own life.

Yeah, you should consider doing that. Live and let live, however
unxian that might be.

PS. If you are xian, and intelligent (don't laugh - I know that it's
possible), don't bother starting a flamewar: all the insults are aimed
at conservative, brainwashed, stupid and standard (in this context,
quotation marks would be out of place) morons. I don't want to annoy
the worthy among you.

[Scott]

CHRIST SODOMIZER <go...@anus.com> stuck his thumb in his ass and pulled out:
<51sri9$r...@jerry.loop.net>...
> mikko...@solutions.fi (Mikko Saari) took a fat hit off a pipe and

> wrote:
>
> >go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:
>
> >>different. Xians preach, where Burzum describes. His material is far
> >>more artistic than Christian "metal"!
>
> >Sure, I admit that.
>

> That's all this difference is about. Metal is about art, and

> political, directional entities like white power or Christianity

> should stay out! But onward to the Deicide question:

>
> >>Except that the Christians aren't dead. When they are dead, imagine
> >>what a cool picture it will be!
>
> >Heh... I guess Deicide's "Kill Christian" or whatever it was must be
> >your favourite song ;)
>

> No! Well, I like earlier Deicide a lot better. The new album is cool
> and all, but it lacks the real power that the earlier stuff had - an

> insane, vast and abstract conception. Now it's very fingers-feet type
> music.
>
> >>There is a complex information transfer in some of it, but stuff like
> >>Impaled Nazarene is clearly PURE PROVOKATION.
>

> >I think Impaled is one of those bands you shouldn't take too
> >seriously. But they have some right attitude, sure. Winter War is
> >great song...
>

> An intensely political song about one of the least reported standoffs
> in military history! HAIL FINLAND!
>

> >Actually I should kill my self as I am Christian by the
> >means of law (I have been confirmed) but not really. I think myself as
> >atheist and I'm going to leave Christianity when I have to pay
> >taxes...
>
> I think taxes are as bad as Christianity. If you leave both behind
> you will have more free time, at least.
>
> The funny thing about TAXES is that in the USA, it's not legal to
> collect a yearly income tax - a patch on the law allows it for now,
> but no one has challenged its constitutionality.
>

I think you might want to check on that Goat putz. The concept or idea of
taxes are
not illegal nor unconstitutional. What is illegal or unconstitutional is
taxation without representation, ie the collection of taxes without your
approval. I believe you'll find in the constitution provisions for the
collection of taxes. By being a U.S. citizen and a member of one of the 50
U.S. states/commonwealths your are considered represented and your consent
to taxes is therefor implied. This was one of the reasons the house of
representatives was created, to provide representation in these matters for
large bodies of people. The founders of this country weren't fools. The
idea of running a government without any sort of financial backing is
stupid. They understood that people (them included) wanted to have control
over what taxes were payed and how much. Read the constitution, it is
far more interesting and much more a part of reality than books on God or
Satan.. both of which don't even exist.

>
>
>
> Walk into evil's lair...
> <http://www.anus.com/> 666
>
>

--
Scott Tyson
Whip...@quiknet.com
scott...@hp.com

[Richard Lucas]

I agree with the sentiment regarding Deicide, the new stuff lacks the sheer
technical excellence of 'Deicide' and the pure half hour of atavistic
hatred of 'Legion'.

What does anyone else think?

<snip>

> >No! Well, I like earlier Deicide a lot better. The new album is cool
> >and all, but it lacks the real power that the earlier stuff had - an
>

<snip>

=============================
Richard Lucas [cth...@innotts.co.uk]
=============================

[DEBBILEE]

In article <rrvk9tl...@korppi.cs.tut.fi>, v15...@korppi.cs.tut.fi (Ville Vainio) writes:
>real...@ix.netcom.com(Chris Sanders) writes:

>>A higher position in heaven? Gee, I'm a Christian and I've heard
>>nothing of the sort. What book have you been reading?

Well the nt is a book of lies and distortions and there really is no
point in reading that book either....
One of course does not see these distortions unless ones knows
Judaism so well that they can clearly see the lies that contradict the
Tenach (What you call the Old Test)
Anyway I do not really give a fuck
Fuck ya' know....

>Actually, what I can't stand are conservative people in general. It
>just seems that that group is mostly made up of xians. When I saw the
>document of "the christian right in america", I felt like supporting
>THE CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST (all-uppercase spelling is correct, right?)
>thoroughly. I get annoyed by most idiots in tv, though, so the xians
>have a lot of company.

The xian fuckin' right.
Fuck I am tired of having to see some fuckin' church at every fuckin'
corner I go to.... Shit !!!!!!!!!!!! I am fuckin tired of all the fuckin'
holiday shit crammed down my fuckin' throat. F U C K Xmas is fuckin'
coming soon F UC K
Oh excuse me for being so unlady like with the usage of the "FUCK"
word. Eemmmeehhhheehhh <--- (A beavis laugh) :)

>>know, I don't find the game of basketball to be all that fun to play or
>>watch. The players get paid outrageous salaries. People waste their
>>money watching the games and buying the memorabilia. And it just

No fuckin' shit ....

Debbielee http://www.netwrx.net/users/lizrdfax/debbie.htm
(just pictures of me)

[PETER BURCHELL]

In Australia we call it "Holy Un-Black Metal"

***************************************
* Peter Burchell *
* p.bur...@student.qut.edu.au *
***************************************

[Rodney Longhurst]

PETER BURCHELL <n187...@sparrow.qut.edu.au> writes:

>In Australia we call it "Holy Un-Black Metal"

Actually, that's mostly Horde's rip-off/'parody' of the "Unholy Black Metal"
phrase on the back of A Darkthrone album.

Personally "holy unblack metal" sounds ridiculous to me.

Rodney

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

Someone named Rodney wrote:

>> Politics is not weakness. My view on art is that it is written entirely
>> for the artist. Therefore preaching, politicising, or image-mongering
>> reduces the integrity of the art. However, if a political issue is something
>> the artist feels strongly about, and writes about it, then this still
>> classifies as pure art if it is an expression of the artist to him or
>> her self.

Solipsism as the highest artistic goal? I have some doubts here.
Seems art is about a sublime art of communication forgotten by modern
industrialists like Christians, Jews, Capitalists, you.

GOAT

[Sybren]

Ville Vainio wrote:
>
> mikko...@solutions.fi (Mikko Saari) writes:
>
> >Yeah! And still the history books even in _Sweden_ say that Finland
> >was conquered by Russia in WWII...
>
> Do they? I think the solution of the war is known, but it's so
> complex (ie Finland were allies of nazi-germany but still didn't
> actually lose the war) that they have to simplify things.
>
> PS. There has been a nice flamewar going on in soc.culture.nordic,
> about whether Finns were evil nazi-allies or courageous heroes
> defending their small country from evil russians. :P

Little of both, I guess...evil Nordic Nazi's fighting the evil Sowjet
hordes :)

I've read about this some time ago...wasn't it that the CCCP offered
their portion of scandinavia to Finland in exchange for a port in the
Finnian Gulf? The Fins rejected this and the Red Army decided to persuade
them by force, and were a bit surprised by the force of the Finnian Army..
..or something. This stuff isn't taught in school here in the Netherlands,
I found history books here to be quite ego-centric (ie much emphaty on
the suffering of the Dutch people and little on the burden on the CCCP and
Eastern Europe). After all, the Red Army did contribute much more to the
defeat of Nazi Germany than the US and Britain did (no second front until
mid '44, etc).

Sybren, de dwalende Ruiter in het Westerwoud

[Rodney Longhurst]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:

>Solipsism as the highest artistic goal? I have some doubts here.

No, pure introspection as the highest artistic goal, not necessarily
solipsism. If you include any modicum of communication to others in your
definition of art, then you reduce the tenability of the art to, at least
partially, the tenability of the idea being expressed.

>Seems art is about a sublime art of communication forgotten by modern
>industrialists like Christians, Jews, Capitalists, you.

Name some artists.

Rodney

[Mr. Kurtz]

"Scott" <whip...@quiknet.com> wrote:

<snip>

>I think you might want to check on that Goat putz. The concept or idea of
>taxes are
>not illegal nor unconstitutional. What is illegal or unconstitutional is
>taxation without representation, ie the collection of taxes without your
>approval. I believe you'll find in the constitution provisions for the
>collection of taxes. By being a U.S. citizen and a member of one of the 50
>U.S. states/commonwealths your are considered represented and your consent
>to taxes is therefor implied. This was one of the reasons the house of
>representatives was created, to provide representation in these matters for
>large bodies of people. The founders of this country weren't fools. The
>idea of running a government without any sort of financial backing is
>stupid. They understood that people (them included) wanted to have control
>over what taxes were payed and how much. Read the constitution, it is
>far more interesting and much more a part of reality than books on God or
>Satan.. both of which don't even exist.

*Partially* right. The provision for an income tax is nowhere in the
Constitution itself or the Bill of Rights. The only mention I recall
of taxation is the prohibition of _per capita_ ("head") taxes. In the
late 1800s, after the first attempt at levying a national income tax,
the tax was challenged under the "head tax" proscription in the
Constitution itself. The result: the income tax was struck down as
unconstitutional. Therefore, to ensure untold billions would flow
into Washington's coffers, the 16th Amendment was railroaded through,
giving government the power to levy taxes on income.

<snip>
---------------------------------------------------------------
C. L. Basso Optical Mineralogist Toledo, O.
cba...@ix.netcom.com
DNRC Titles: Tyrant of Ohio and
Obergruppenfuhrer of the Rust Belt Legion
"The great questions of the day are settled not by speeches
and the decisions of majorities, but by blood and iron."
-- Otto von Bismarck

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

Sybren <S.J.He...@lr.tudelft.nl> took a fat hit off a pipe and
wrote:

>> >Yeah! And still the history books even in _Sweden_ say that Finland

>> >was conquered by Russia in WWII...

(bizarre)

>> Do they? I think the solution of the war is known, but it's so
>> complex (ie Finland were allies of nazi-germany but still didn't
>> actually lose the war) that they have to simplify things.
>>
>> PS. There has been a nice flamewar going on in soc.culture.nordic,
>> about whether Finns were evil nazi-allies or courageous heroes
>> defending their small country from evil russians. :P

>Little of both, I guess...evil Nordic Nazi's fighting the evil Sowjet
>hordes :)

Well...who'd you pick as an ally? The guys over the bay?

>I've read about this some time ago...wasn't it that the CCCP offered
>their portion of scandinavia to Finland in exchange for a port in the
>Finnian Gulf? The Fins rejected this and the Red Army decided to persuade
>them by force, and were a bit surprised by the force of the Finnian Army..
>..or something.

The Finns held them off for a record time considering the strength of
the offensive, and beat the Russians in a prolonged and frustrating
winter war of sabotage and destruction. Eventually I think bombing
(?) forced them to succumb, but it's been many years for me on reading
this stuff.

>This stuff isn't taught in school here in the Netherlands,
>I found history books here to be quite ego-centric (ie much emphaty on
>the suffering of the Dutch people and little on the burden on the CCCP and
>Eastern Europe). After all, the Red Army did contribute much more to the
>defeat of Nazi Germany than the US and Britain did (no second front until
>mid '44, etc).

Hehehehe, and he ends with a flame troll.

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

rl...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Rodney Longhurst) took a fat hit off a pipe
and wrote:

>go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:

>>Solipsism as the highest artistic goal? I have some doubts here.

>No, pure introspection as the highest artistic goal, not necessarily
>solipsism. If you include any modicum of communication to others in your
>definition of art, then you reduce the tenability of the art to, at least
>partially, the tenability of the idea being expressed.

Ah, pure introspection is different from what you said -- as
introspection is deconstruction and analysis of the self, cogency.
Touching the layer of the sublime, perhaps?

>>Seems art is about a sublime art of communication forgotten by modern
>>industrialists like Christians, Jews, Capitalists, you.

>Name some artists.

Joyce, Faulkner, Morbid Angel, Burzum, The Beatles, Slayer

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

v15...@korppi.cs.tut.fi (Ville Vainio) took a fat hit off a pipe and
wrote:

>Actually, what I can't stand are conservative people in general. It

>just seems that that group is mostly made up of xians. When I saw the
>document of "the christian right in america", I felt like supporting
>THE CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST (all-uppercase spelling is correct, right?)
>thoroughly. I get annoyed by most idiots in tv, though, so the xians
>have a lot of company.

The forces of the CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST (I think it's all caps, with no
TM after it tho ;) have just put up a web page somewhere. I'm waiting
to get email back from the dude I talked to about six months ago.

>To get a novice lecture about why xians suck, read _The_satanic_bible_
>by LaVey. You can come to the same conclusions all by yourself, but
>it might speed up the thought process. If you really believe that
>JHVH exist, it gets a bit more difficult. But if you have a seed of
>doubt in you... just read it and think about it. Direct further
>questions to GOAT ;-)

Thanks for the plug, comrade in chaos! I recommend also Nietzsche's
Genealogy of Morals, or perhaps even something simpler and more
anarchistic like "The Crying of Lot 49" by Thomas Pynchon.

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

ray...@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu (DEBBILEE) took a fat hit off a pipe
and wrote:

>Oh excuse me for being so unlady like with the usage of the "FUCK"
>word. Eemmmeehhhheehhh <--- (A beavis laugh) :)

FUCK CHRISTIAN GENDER ROLES ENSLAVEMENT

;)-~

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

PETER BURCHELL <n187...@sparrow.qut.edu.au> took a fat hit off a pipe
and wrote:

>In Australia we call it "Holy Un-Black Metal"

But it still sucks.

GOAT

[Parasite]

What the hell is this shit doing in the heavy metal newsgroup?

=Parasite

[Rodney Longhurst]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:

>rl...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Rodney Longhurst) and wrote:
>>go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:

>Ah, pure introspection is different from what you said -- as

Perhaps, but pure introspection is what I _meant_. :)

>introspection is deconstruction and analysis of the self, cogency.
>Touching the layer of the sublime, perhaps?

Sort of, I wouldn't want to make too many hard and fast rules as to what
constitutes true art at this level, but maybe the purpose of pulling
the sublime into the conscious mind, or at least maturing and increasing
the sublime.

>>>Seems art is about a sublime art of communication forgotten by modern
>>>industrialists like Christians, Jews, Capitalists, you.

>>Name some artists.

>Joyce, Faulkner, Morbid Angel, Burzum, The Beatles, Slayer

Okay, I'll strike off the first two from ignorance.

Morbid Angel yes, as I've heard an interview with Trey where he espouses
almost precisely what I believe with respect to the nature or pure art. I
don't, however, have any musical connection to the band and so unfortunately
I can't understand your criteria at this level here.

Burzum, maybe, I don't know his purpose, although probably yes.

Beatles I would be highly suspect of, too much commercialism and obvious
audience-tailored appeal.

Slayer, not in my opinion, the commercial hand of thrash.

I take it you define true art as a function of the musical quality itself,
in addition to, or even the exclusion of, the intent of the artist?

Rodney

[BILLY HARRIGAN]

theres some guy in alt.punk ranting about being the second coming
calls himself the CYBERCHRIST he has posted his 10 demands
his philosophy includes a unification of poor blacks n whites to rise
against the true enemy the wealthy....

we need good christian soldiers to go to alt.punk and do battle with
this maniac... he must be stopped... hear that ringing in your ears
thats god telling you to do the right thing...

billy

[Parasite]

CHRIST SODOMIZER wrote:

> Thanks for the plug, comrade in chaos! I recommend also Nietzsche's
> Genealogy of Morals, or perhaps even something simpler and more
> anarchistic like "The Crying of Lot 49" by Thomas Pynchon.

Nietzsche? Isn't that the wanker who spent the last 5 years of his life ranting and
raving in an insane asylum? The same asshole who said that if the existence fo God was
proved to him, he would deny it even further? The same guy who was shouted down and
shamed by Fyodor Dostoyevsky? The same fuck who is idolozied by little kids who are
atheists because they didn't like their parents dragging them to chruch on Sundays? Any
ideology that considers him one of their greatest denfenders can't be very legitimate,
can it?

=Parasite

[Henry Leirvoll]

On 24 Sep 1996 02:38:24 GMT, rl...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Rodney
Longhurst) wrote:

>Actually, that's mostly Horde's rip-off/'parody' of the "Unholy Black Metal"
>phrase on the back of A Darkthrone album.
>
>Personally "holy unblack metal" sounds ridiculous to me.

I completely agree - if this is the label, they make too much out of
being against "true" Black Metal - in fact, showing that they are not
in it for the music at all.

If it is all a parody, what's it worth?

Personally I find it paradoxal in Any way.

Why would christians portray their message, which is love and hope,
through Hatred and Despair?

spreading the word of god through aggression really sounds just the
same as The Salvation Army (or any good-will organization) trying to
spread their doings through war and oppression.

Like the people who listened to them would wake up, saying "Yes, I
have seen the light - kick me some more!"

--
H. Leirvoll / ku...@intercom.no
- ^Heksheim / Black Metal^ -
http://www.intercom.no/~kulde

[David Frost]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>v15...@korppi.cs.tut.fi (Ville Vainio) took a fat hit off a pipe and
>wrote:

>>Actually, what I can't stand are conservative people in general. It

>>just seems that that group is mostly made up of xians. When I saw the
>>document of "the christian right in america", I felt like supporting
>>THE CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST (all-uppercase spelling is correct, right?)
>>thoroughly. I get annoyed by most idiots in tv, though, so the xians
>>have a lot of company.

>The forces of the CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST (I think it's all caps, with no
>TM after it tho ;) have just put up a web page somewhere. I'm waiting
>to get email back from the dude I talked to about six months ago.

>>To get a novice lecture about why xians suck, read _The_satanic_bible_
>>by LaVey. You can come to the same conclusions all by yourself, but
>>it might speed up the thought process. If you really believe that
>>JHVH exist, it gets a bit more difficult. But if you have a seed of
>>doubt in you... just read it and think about it. Direct further
>>questions to GOAT ;-)

>Thanks for the plug, comrade in chaos! I recommend also Nietzsche's

>Genealogy of Morals, or perhaps even something simpler and more
>anarchistic like "The Crying of Lot 49" by Thomas Pynchon.

>GOAT

Nietzsche was a moron. He denied God. He promoted self. Chaos only
leads to a eventual dictatorship...which leads to a revolt...which
leads to anarchy....which leads to chaos (I could, but will not go
on). Look at my Signature....it is true.
"God is dead" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead" - God

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

sno...@primenet.com (David Frost) tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>Nietzsche was a moron. He denied God. He promoted self. Chaos only
>leads to a eventual dictatorship...which leads to a revolt...which
>leads to anarchy....which leads to chaos (I could, but will not go
>on). Look at my Signature....it is true.
>"God is dead" - Nietzsche
>"Nietzsche is dead" - God

He may have understood the benefits and needs of anarchy better than
those addicted to centralized control.

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

Parasite <para...@juno.com> tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>What the hell is this shit doing in the heavy metal newsgroup?

We're trolling for Christians. Want to come?
If we catch any you can eat one!

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

Parasite <para...@juno.com> tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>The same asshole who said that if the existence fo God was proved to him, he would deny it even further?

You reveal your bias by calling him an asshole; what is so threatening
about someone who denies God? That he has a chance to be right?

Nietzsche's far ahead of you and anyone else who worships Christianity
and defends it with such a clearly denial-based emotional logic!

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

may...@ix.netcom.com(BILLY HARRIGAN) tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>theres some guy in alt.punk ranting about being the second coming
>calls himself the CYBERCHRIST he has posted his 10 demands
>his philosophy includes a unification of poor blacks n whites to rise
>against the true enemy the wealthy....

Let's hear it for unification of the black and white brethren...ya
gotta realize that SATAN stands for ALL, he is the vast unconscience
of naturalistic expansion and evolution. SATAN mocks those who thing
racial divisiveness is anything other than phenotypic tomfoolery while
the real science of genetic recombinance passes under the bridge!

>we need good christian soldiers to go to alt.punk and do battle with
>this maniac... he must be stopped... hear that ringing in your ears
>thats god telling you to do the right thing...

Instructions for good Christian Soldiers
--------------------------------------------

Insert ammunition in weapon.
Insert weapon in mouth.
Pull trigger, exit.

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

rl...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Rodney Longhurst) tied off, shot up, and
wrote:

>>Ah, pure introspection is different from what you said -- as

>>introspection is deconstruction and analysis of the self, cogency.
>>Touching the layer of the sublime, perhaps?

>Sort of, I wouldn't want to make too many hard and fast rules as to what
>constitutes true art at this level, but maybe the purpose of pulling
>the sublime into the conscious mind, or at least maturing and increasing
>the sublime.

Maturing and increasing the sublime? Not much sense will come where
the terms are so widely disparate, as the sublime I am referring to
would not fit those handlers.

Tell me: is the speech of art a submerged stream, or a river above?
As if its purpose is to exhume the sublime, clearly it is
incommunicative (the sublime being the layer opposite to the layer of
human existence, it must be computed and not sampled).

>>>Name some artists.

>>Joyce, Faulkner, Morbid Angel, Burzum, The Beatles, Slayer

>Beatles I would be highly suspect of, too much commercialism and obvious
>audience-tailored appeal.

Yes, that turned into...?

>Slayer, not in my opinion, the commercial hand of thrash.

Not at all. High artistic content beneath it all.

>I take it you define true art as a function of the musical quality itself,
>in addition to, or even the exclusion of, the intent of the artist?

Not at all.

GOAT

[BILLY HARRIGAN]

DONT SEEM TO BE ANY IN HERE THO BRO
I NEED FRESH FLESH!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan/666.html

АБА АБВА
АБВБА АБллВБА
АБВлВБА АБВВБА
АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
АББл лллл лБА
лллл . лВВл . лллл
лАБл лВВл лБАл
АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
АБА АВА
may...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan
NEWSPEAK ONLINE MAGAZINE
THE MOST TWISTED GRAPHIX ON THE NET!
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There are some good ideas in the Bible. If you want to believe in
God,
then fine. But you do not need to sit in a certain building and pay
cash to a tax-free organization to get closer to your God.

UNKNOWN

[BILLY HARRIGAN]

АБА АБВА
АБВБА АБллВБА
АБВлВБА АБВВБА
АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
АББл лллл лБА
лллл . лВВл . лллл
лАБл лВВл лБАл
АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
АБА АВА

пп пп пппппп пп пп
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COME COME NOW GOOD XTIAN SOLDIERS
TO ALT.PUNK TO YOUR DEATH
http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan/horror1.html

[An Claidheamh Ceilteach]

On 23 Sep 1996, Ville Vainio wrote:

> PS. If you are xian, and intelligent (don't laugh - I know that it's
> possible), don't bother starting a flamewar: all the insults are aimed
> at conservative, brainwashed, stupid and standard (in this context,
> quotation marks would be out of place) morons. I don't want to annoy
> the worthy among you.

Oh, OK. I'll refrain then. ;-) Actually, I found myself agreeing
significantly with you. I hate the Christian Right (and the Christian
Left). Most Christians are pretty damn ignorant. It's unfortunate. I'm
not the average Christian. Politically anarchist, for example.

> --
> Ville Vainio - vva...@cc.tut.fi Notice the NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!!!
> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~v153286
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laissez vivre, |jso...@liberty.uc.wlu.edu
|On the WWW at http://www.wlu.edu/~jsorens/index.html
Jason P Sorens |Air an WWW aig http://www.wlu.edu/~jsorens/gaidhlig.html

"What we [need] is a liberal Utopia, a program which neither seems a mere
defense of things as they are nor a diluted kind of socialism, but a
truly liberal radicalism which does not spare the susceptibilities of the
mighty..., which is not too severely practical, and which does not
confine itself to what appears today as politically possible."
-- Hayek

Harry Browne, Libertarian for President - http://www.harrybrowne96.org/
Libertarian Party - http://www.lp.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[MICHAEL SMITH]

BILLY HARRIGAN (may...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: In <52h1b2$i...@jerry.loop.net> go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:
:
: >
: >Parasite <para...@juno.com> tied off, shot up, and wrote:
: >
: >>What the hell is this shit doing in the heavy metal newsgroup?

: >
: >We're trolling for Christians. Want to come?
: >If we catch any you can eat one!
: >
: >GOAT
: >
: >
: DONT SEEM TO BE ANY IN HERE THO BRO
: I NEED FRESH FLESH!!!!!!!!!!
: http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan/666.html

:
:
:
: АБА АБВА

: АБВБА АБллВБА
: АБВлВБА АБВВБА
: АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
: АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
: АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
: АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
: АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
: АББл лллл лБА
: лллл . лВВл . лллл
: лАБл лВВл лБАл
: АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
: АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
: ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
: АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
: АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
: АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
: АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
: АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
: АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
: АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
: АБА АВА

: may...@ix.netcom.com

: http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan
: NEWSPEAK ONLINE MAGAZINE
: THE MOST TWISTED GRAPHIX ON THE NET!
: TRIBAL INDUSTRIAL DEATH PUNK
: WELCOME TO THE PAIN AMPLIFIER!!!!!
:
:
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:
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:
: There are some good ideas in the Bible. If you want to believe in
: God,
: then fine. But you do not need to sit in a certain building and pay
: cash to a tax-free organization to get closer to your God.
:
: UNKNOWN

Remember this, anyone with an agenda or ideology to sell should
not be taken at his word. Don't trust that person. Wait a second, thats
everyone I've ever met, mailed or emailed with. Damn!!!!!!!! Can't
trust anyone now. Their all out to get me!!!!! I'll get you all
for this, just wait!!! I'll get you and your little Devil, too!!!!!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
x

[gregory-jabez brown]

BILLY HARRIGAN (may...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

: theres some guy in alt.punk ranting about being the second coming
: calls himself the CYBERCHRIST he has posted his 10 demands
: his philosophy includes a unification of poor blacks n whites to rise
: against the true enemy the wealthy....

: we need good christian soldiers to go to alt.punk and do battle with

: this maniac... he must be stopped... hear that ringing in your ears
: thats god telling you to do the right thing...

Hmmm.. I remember when Cyberchrist (if this is the same one, which it sounds
like) was more active on the local BBSes in the Albany area.. so now he's
moved up to the internet.. whoop-dee-do.. he's still going to make an ass of
himself...
I don't have anything against his communist-related philosophies, and I I
agree with him that many of the wealthy can be counted among humanity's
greatest enemies and should be dealt with, but he's an ass for plenty of
other reasons, SO...

[Rodney Longhurst]

Parasite <para...@juno.com> writes:

>What the hell is this shit doing in the heavy metal newsgroup?

Black metal music quite neatly fits under the banner of heavy metal.

Rodney

[Rodney Longhurst]

ku...@intercom.no (Henry Leirvoll) writes:
>rl...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Rodney Longhurst) wrote:

Hi Henry,

>>Personally "holy unblack metal" sounds ridiculous to me.

>I completely agree - if this is the label, they make too much out of
>being against "true" Black Metal - in fact, showing that they are not
>in it for the music at all. If it is all a parody, what's it worth?

Not much, black metal is generally too serious to be involved with
parodies. It doesn't come off well anyway, and the music itself is
serious, not a parody, not remotely humourous.

>Why would christians portray their message, which is love and hope,
>through Hatred and Despair?

It's certainly an interesting question. Ideally I suppose total love
is the Christian ideal, but in society's present incarnation it becomes
impossible to not suffer hatred. In fact, I'd tend to suggest that
humans can't shake this anyway. IMO as long as its controlled and
well directed, such as towards introspective discovery, then the
paradox reduces.

Rodney

[Rodney Longhurst]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) writes:
>rl...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Rodney Longhurst) wrote:

>Maturing and increasing the sublime? Not much sense will come where
>the terms are so widely disparate, as the sublime I am referring to
>would not fit those handlers.

Okay, you brought up the term, I will use your interpretation of it.

>Tell me: is the speech of art a submerged stream, or a river above?

That's perfectly incidental. Communication outside of the artist
is incidental, and it can't be said that art is one or the other, as
it is relative to the individual artist.

>As if its purpose is to exhume the sublime, clearly it is
>incommunicative (the sublime being the layer opposite to the layer of
>human existence, it must be computed and not sampled).

Well okay, from this perspective I have misused "sublime", more or less
equating it with the subconscious. I was referring to the expanding of
the maturity/knowledge of the subconscious, as well as 'exhuming' it
into the conscious, which further represents maturity.

>>Slayer, not in my opinion, the commercial hand of thrash.

>Not at all. High artistic content beneath it all.

From my perspective this clashes with what you have written below. Art
relative to the listener is a completely different thing. Art as an
'absolute' is only about the artist creating someone of beauty to him
or her self, which at its highest form means forgoing some communication
of ideas to others.

I have no quibbles with the artistic content from a listeners point
of view, but with respect to the integrity of art, Slayer come off poorly.

>>I take it you define true art as a function of the musical quality itself,
>>in addition to, or even the exclusion of, the intent of the artist?

>Not at all.

Rodney

[re]

David Frost wrote:
>
> Nietzsche was a moron. He denied God.

Well. More like he denied the concept "God".
Ie the idea of god as guarantor for the validity
of one single perspective on the world.

> He promoted self.

Rather he "denied self" - ie criticized the idea
of its unity and coherence.
Don't try to involve the "superhuman" at this point,
you'll just screw it all up.

> Chaos only
> leads to a eventual dictatorship...which leads to a revolt...which
> leads to anarchy....which leads to chaos (I could, but will not go
> on).

You lifted this from Reader's Digest, admit it.

> Look at my Signature....it is true.
> "God is dead" - Nietzsche
> "Nietzsche is dead" - God

My mom actually told me that joke one time when i
was like 14ish. I think she said granpa used to
tell it all the time. He liked dry jokes.

re

[BILLY HARRIGAN]

FUCK YOU N THE HORSE YAH RODE IN ON
THE ALBANY LOCAL BBS SCENE IS THE MOST TWISTED BUNCH OF DEFECTIVE HUMAN
BEINGS I HAVE EVER HAD THE PLEASURE OF DEALING WITH
BILLY HARRIGAN

[ChorazaiM]

On 27 Sep 1996 20:14:55 GMT, rand...@dudley.lib.usf.edu (Randy
Johnson (ADM)) wrote:

>ChorazaiM (chor...@myna.com) wrote:
>: And don't try to justify that statement with the usual "nazi
>: are evil, they almost wiped out an entire race...etc etc etc"
>: argument, because FAR MORE people have died under xtian attack than
>: Hitler or his ilk...so who's truly more evil ?
>
>Really? Just *how* many have died under xtian attack?

Sorry, I don't have an exact count..perhaps you can ask the
Pope, as he's the official embassador of your christwhore god...

>: BTW, I'm not defending right wing views, I'm just saying that
>: if any class of band should be banned/criticized/flooged because of
>: their ideology, it should be xians above everyone else, as they have
>: committed the *most* atrocities against mankind...

>Is that so? Amazing! Please tell me the sources from which you get your
>info. I am most intrigued.

HAHAHAHAH!!! Very good...I haven't had a laugh in a
while...try naming one more than a handful of european countries that
*weren't* attacked by over zealous xians (the crusades, the spanish
inquisition, the witchhunts, etc etc etc). Xianity was forced down
EVERYONE'S throats, but of course, you probably saw it as a series of
willing conversions, and not the mass genocide of heathens and such.
Take it outside godboy, the xian grip is finally weakening, and I
can't wait till the day when you TRULY have done unto you as you have
done unto others...

<<< ChorazaiM >>>

:: sretsam on sdog on :: 666 :: moc.anym@miazarohc ::
:: chor...@myna.com :: 666 :: no gods no masters ::
:: sretsam on sdog on :: 666 :: moc.anym@miazarohc ::
:: www url ::: http://www.myna.com/~taab/index.htm ::

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

Christianity = an information filter for those who fear that
decentralized control means the omnipotence of DEATH

Otherwise known as: The Partykiller of Western Philosophic, the
Phantastic Prophylactic, Means of Control, Pin-the-Fish-on-the-Moron.

GOAT

[Adam S. Henige]

>
> HAHAHAHAH!!! Very good...I haven't had a laugh in a
> while...try naming one more than a handful of european countries that
> *weren't* attacked by over zealous xians (the crusades, the spanish
> inquisition, the witchhunts, etc etc etc). Xianity was forced down
> EVERYONE'S throats, but of course, you probably saw it as a series of
> willing conversions, and not the mass genocide of heathens and such.
> Take it outside godboy, the xian grip is finally weakening, and I
> can't wait till the day when you TRULY have done unto you as you have
> done unto others...
>

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!
----Alt.ROCK-N-ROLL.METAL.DEATH----
Sounds like music, hmmmmm.....

Hitler's dead, the Crusades are over, the land lord's a witch but my
christian roommate hasn't killed her yet...

I love music!

A D A M

[labuser]

That's not what people were talking about. Last week in this thread,
they were talking about Finland or some or some other bullshit. Now
they're talking about killing people because of their religious
beliefs. First of all, this is the fucking United States, and everyone
has the right believe in whatever the hell they want to, even if it
involves making ill-concieved, sweeping generalizations about followers
of certain religions, or even murdering followers of those ideologies,
as long as they don't act on those beliefs. Secondly, I go to this place
to talk about music, not to have some kind of "religious" debate with
some pseudo-philosophic, social-Darwinist,
kill-everyone-who-doesn't-think-the-same-way-I-do morons.

=Parasite

[Hailey Jonathan L]

ChorazaiM (chor...@myna.com) wrote:
: On 27 Sep 1996 20:14:55 GMT, rand...@dudley.lib.usf.edu (Randy
: Johnson (ADM)) wrote:

: >ChorazaiM (chor...@myna.com) wrote:
: >: And don't try to justify that statement with the usual "nazi
: >: are evil, they almost wiped out an entire race...etc etc etc"
: >: argument, because FAR MORE people have died under xtian attack than
: >: Hitler or his ilk...so who's truly more evil ?
: >
: >Really? Just *how* many have died under xtian attack?

: Sorry, I don't have an exact count..perhaps you can ask the
: Pope, as he's the official embassador of your christwhore god...

Ambassador, oh brutal pimple-faced one...The Pope is only significant
to Catholics. Protestants could care less.

: HAHAHAHAH!!! Very good...I haven't had a laugh in a

: while...try naming one more than a handful of european countries that
: *weren't* attacked by over zealous xians (the crusades, the spanish
: inquisition, the witchhunts, etc etc etc). Xianity was forced down
: EVERYONE'S throats, but of course, you probably saw it as a series of
: willing conversions, and not the mass genocide of heathens and such.
: Take it outside godboy, the xian grip is finally weakening, and I
: can't wait till the day when you TRULY have done unto you as you have
: done unto others...

:Oh boy, here we go w/the old "Christianity was forced down people's throats
song and dance. Let me explain this to you oh stinky one, genocide of
heathens...where's the problem? What have I done unto others...Opened
a door for a crippled woman? Given to the United Way? Worked at the
Food Harvest for free? GOD HELP US!!!! "Christwhore"? Nice...
Juvenile potty-mouthed name calling...You know nothing of Christianity,
BOY. When you actually know what you're talking about, BOY, then we'll
talk.

Living Colour is my favorite "black metal band"!!! ROCK ON!!!
: :: sretsam on sdog on :: 666 :: moc.anym@miazarohc ::

: :: chor...@myna.com :: 666 :: no gods no masters ::
: :: sretsam on sdog on :: 666 :: moc.anym@miazarohc ::
: :: www url ::: http://www.myna.com/~taab/index.htm ::

--

[Gabriel S.]

chor...@myna.com (ChorazaiM) thundered:

>
> HAHAHAHAH!!! Very good...I haven't had a laugh in a
> while...try naming one more than a handful of european countries that
> *weren't* attacked by over zealous xians (the crusades, the spanish
> inquisition, the witchhunts, etc etc etc). Xianity was forced down
> EVERYONE'S throats, but of course, you probably saw it as a series of
> willing conversions, and not the mass genocide of heathens and such.
> Take it outside godboy, the xian grip is finally weakening, and I
> can't wait till the day when you TRULY have done unto you as you have
> done unto others...

Congrats. Well put!!

GS.
_______
http://www.sirius.com/~mega/wings
________

[Ware]

Music is a form of expression... It should be.. if you have GOD in your
heart, write away.. if you dont , that is fine. i personaly dislike metal
music period. But nothing blocks us from freedome of expression..
In Christ, Matt

CHRIST SODOMIZER <go...@anus.com> wrote in article
<51kpnr$r...@jerry.loop.net>...
>
> I'm gonna hit all these comments in order...
>
> HAIL TO ALL TRUE METAL WARRIORS
> K.F.S. AND DEFEAT THE CHRISTIAN WHORED
>
> meta...@aol.com (MetalMag) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:
>
> ><<No, it isn't. If they worship the xian Satan (what other Satans there
> ><<are?), they are xian black metal. Most bands don't exactly know which
> ><<Satan is cool at the moment, so this is not really important.
>
> I think we must explain the difference in language here. "Black
> metal," using the terminology of metal, explains the spirit of metal
> as black, or evil. "Christian metal" on the other hand describes the
> communicative essence of the music's function. So "Christian black
> metal" would mean evil music that functions as Christian propaganda;
> if we then invert the inversion to use their definition of "evil" as
> "moronic negativity," it would work.
>
> However, I only break out these lines for the sake of obfuscation.
> It's clear that the entire "Christian metal" movement exists for one
> sake only: to spread the message of their religion.
>
> Metal as a whole is either more artistic or far more base than the
> Christians. On one hand are the intellectuals who are always the
> vanguard of metal composition, and on the other are the drunken
> violent plebe warriors against order who destroy for the sake of
> emotional turbulence. If we follow the philosophy revealed in the
> choice of aesthetic and the communicative elements of metal, we find
> it to be fundamentally deconstructionist, or anti-centralized-order,
> where Christian metal hopes to be the key to a centralized order for
> new listeners. Even the philosophy of anti-philosophy supports a
> fundamentally different direction than the Christian philosophy
> espouses: figure it out yerself. While Christianity and Christian
> metal preach deference to a figure above, metal of all types has
> always suggested an individualistic, naturalistic, mystic approach
> toward individual pathways to determination.
>
> Let us consider aesthetic. Deconstructionist aesthetic, including
> distortion, broken-tempo drumming, violent exaggerated rhythmic
> tendencies and vicious speed have always been part of the metal
> aesthetic. What do these suggest? We must explore the other
> compositional tools and then the lyrical clues to interpret these
> textures.
>
> I think anyone reading a moderate amount of metal would realize that
> even with relapses, most metal bands are not only non-Christian but
> are acting in non-Christian methods. Christianity has established
> with their music that it must 1) promote a message and 2) speak the
> word of God. Metal bands have established, with their chaotic
> disgusting lyrics and random aesthetic approach (even to the point of
> NEGATING musical structure in favor of aesthetic), that they favor
> breakdown and no clear message, no form of control. Their music is as
> anarchistic as the Christians' is centralized.
>
> >Metal Fest Magazine writes:
> >ANTESTOR does not worship the xtian Satan...
> >I wrote to Adric who runs the ANTESTOR Web page and asked him WHY the
band
> >was using the term "christian black metal" to describe their music and
he
> >replied....
>
> Standard replies. Watch:
>
> >"Because they are Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ and they
> >happen to play black metal music.
>
> No mention of lyrical content. He has only mentioned that they love
> Jesus Christ, so in his worldview OF COURSE they want to sing about
> it.
>
> In ours, the alienated metal fans of the world eyesocket on reality,
> we can't imagine singing about a man who urges you to follow a law of
> herd control.
>
> >Since "black metal" is only really
> >describing the style of music why shouldn't Christians use that media
> >as well?
>
> Typical Christian dogma: Thing has function, so why can't that
> function be the function of the purchaser -- the buying Christian?
>
> Answer: it's not a media, it is a style of music created by an
> information structure in the head of the artist ON AN INDIVIDUAL
> LEVEL, not a standardized central structure like Christiand dogma.
> For this reason, it can be computed from any number of points, but its
> ideas come together without the fundamental propagandist and
> consumerist ideas of Christians.
>
> >To say black metal is based upon lyric[s], then by that
> >standard Mercyful Fate would be black metal and so would Deicide but
> >as we both know neither of these groups are black metal.
>
> Christians also believe in exclusive object, where thing = function
> without possibility of multiple answers, or a complex answer over
> time.
>
> If black metal was STRICTLY limited to Satanic lyrics, lots of things
> would be black metal. But nope, Satanic lyrics is just one attribute
> of black metal and many other things, which is why absolute classing
> makes no sense: attributes can be broken down into shared elements of
> a thing, but it is the formula behind those attributes that will
> distinguish the different entity.
>
> >I would appreciate your comments regarding the above as I'm working on
an
> >article which is similiar (categorizing metal), please email your
comments
> >to Meta...@aol.com or post to this newsgroups. Thanks!
>
> I think all metal fans have an interest in this issue. I see
> Christian bands, White Power bands, or other
> Political-Interest-Group-Here bands as being of the same ilk: people
> who believe in subverting art's function to make it function clearly
> in league with the ONE THING they believe in, the core function of all
> existence in their worldview. For some this is gOD, but for others it
> is the master race or maybe even victim status for a minority
> group...the fundamental attribute is its intent: spread the virus of
> definitiveness. But art speaks the other language: subvert, break
> down, appreciate for ESSENTIAL rather than SURFACE (attribute)
> qualities.
>
> Altar of Unholy Blasphemy:
> <http://www.anus.com/altar/>
>
> Dark Legions Archive metal reviews:
> <http://www.anus.com/metal/>
>
> SUPPORT THE CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST
>
> GOAT
>
>
>
> Walk into evil's lair...
> <http://www.anus.com/> 666
>
>

[MetalMag]

Hey Goat:

My name is Carmi and I'm Editor for Metal Fest Magazine... I received the
following emails from two xtian men in response to your statement (listed
below). The first is from Adric who "runs" the Antestor ("xtian black
metal band") webpage and the second from Sojourner who is in a "unholy
black metal band." I thought you may be interested in their response to
your statement. I'd be interested in receiving your comments via email or
posted to the newsgroup. Thanks for your assistance.. I'm attempting to
put together an article for our November issue.
(bible quoting signatures sniped by me)

> Q: Why would a Christian band call themselves "BLACK METAL?"

>Christianity is the realm of the weak; Christians react in fear to
>any divergent dogma and consequently strive to re-establish normative
>procedure to eliminate variation. Their purity must be preserved, so
>they create (in their opposite taxonomy) a category for the newcomer
>as "Christian" (anti-propaganda) plus the title of the original
>genre.

Christianity is not weak, it is a strong relationship between Jesus
Christ who died for all the sins of the world and humans. Dogma is
not an issue with Christians, we are all trusting and know the Lord
and are prepared to accept nothing else as Biblicaly correct material
and no other gods. Variation is good, we do not want to eliminate it
but to expand on it. Why do we Christians have to be denied certain
styles of music? We don't. All music can be used to glorify God. We
are not perfect so purity is not an issue here, "for all have sinned,
and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23) and we are not
trying to make a taxonomy here but rather continue in this genre that
has been so closed-minded as to not let Christians enter it. Where
did she come of with "anti-propaganda"?
Again I must state that we are not trying to cause confusion or anger
in the metal scene but just to make people realize that there is hope
out there and that God loves you and that He wants u to be with Him.
He sent His only Son to die for you. Does that mean nothing? How many
people would send their child to die for people that hate him? God
has revealed Himself to us thru His Son and we as Christians have
taken on a new battle to win souls for Christ - the black metal
battle. Jesus is Lord of all and He will judge the living and the
dead and you cannot wait until that moment when we are judged to
choose, by then it will be too late.

Adric---
fle...@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~settie

<<<<<<
A question has been presented. Why would a Christian band call
themselves
"black metal"?
If one was talking from a purely musical, technical or genre
perspective, then any band who professes Christ and plays the style of
music generally associated with the phrase black metal; calling
themselves black metal would be justified. But, black metal has
turned into something totally different. The phrase "black metal" has
taken on different weight since the early days of it's existence. remember
seeing old classic metal bands being called black metal because they wrote
dark and sometimes satanic lyrics. Then of course thrash and speed metal
bands such as Slayer, Deicide and others were christened black metal
because of their satanic views.
Then gradually the more extreme music of early pioneers like Bathory,
Venom, Mayhem, and others took over the rights to the title. Black metal
was
flooded with occult, pagan, and satanic messages. Whether or not the true
essence of the music is dark, no one really knows except for the bands.
Horde, the musical project of Anonymous, released "Hellig Usvart",
which
means holy unblack in norwegian. I, like virtually all of the few
christian black
metal bands, have taken to that precedent. My faith's tenant's are the
polar opposite of evil and hatred. But not anger. I am in a spiritual
war against the forces of darkness, and thus every action I take will be
against evil.
This is what Christian black metal is.....against the forces of evil.
We, as Christians, know what evil is and know how to stop it. For our
faith is
strong and not weak like some may be led to believe.

(Sojourner)

Carmi

Metal Fest Magazine
360-23 W Schick Road,
Suite 116, Bloomingdale, IL 60108

[ProudAngl]

In article <52n0h4$b...@jerry.loop.net>,

Hail To That!!! Christians need to learn to be who they are, instead of what a
book tells them to be.

Josh French
DeathBanger E-Zine
http://www.graymist.com/Deathbanger/

[gutterBoy]

In article <324e3a0e...@news.myna.com>,

chor...@myna.com (ChorazaiM) wrote:
:On 27 Sep 1996 20:14:55 GMT, rand...@dudley.lib.usf.edu (Randy
:Johnson (ADM)) wrote:
:
:>ChorazaiM (chor...@myna.com) wrote:
:>: And don't try to justify that statement with the usual "nazi
:>: are evil, they almost wiped out an entire race...etc etc etc"
:>: argument, because FAR MORE people have died under xtian attack than
:>: Hitler or his ilk...so who's truly more evil ?
:>
:>Really? Just *how* many have died under xtian attack?
:
: Sorry, I don't have an exact count..perhaps you can ask the
:Pope, as he's the official embassador of your christwhore god...

The Pope is nothing, he is just a man in a ridiculous hat. You obviously don't
understand christianity. The Pope is just a man that the catholic church has
elevated. It' salways dangerouse to elevate a man (person) above other men
(people). He no more represents christianity than that guy in the red suit and
horns represents satan, maybe even less. There is never a mention of the
position of pope in the bible, it is a position made up by the catholic
church.

:
:>: BTW, I'm not defending right wing views, I'm just saying that

:>: if any class of band should be banned/criticized/flooged because of
:>: their ideology, it should be xians above everyone else, as they have
:>: committed the *most* atrocities against mankind...
:
:>Is that so? Amazing! Please tell me the sources from which you get your
:>info. I am most intrigued.

:
: HAHAHAHAH!!! Very good...I haven't had a laugh in a

:while...try naming one more than a handful of european countries that
:*weren't* attacked by over zealous xians (the crusades, the spanish
:inquisition, the witchhunts, etc etc etc). Xianity was forced down
:EVERYONE'S throats, but of course, you probably saw it as a series of
:willing conversions, and not the mass genocide of heathens and such.
:Take it outside godboy, the xian grip is finally weakening, and I
:can't wait till the day when you TRULY have done unto you as you have
:done unto others...

Another case of not understanding christianity. These things were definetly
done in the name of Christ but it was a lie! That was all a lie. Christ would
never condone the things they did. They badly misrepresented Christ and
christianity, as do many people today. If you would read the bible you would
know that christians are not suppose to moralize the world or force views on
people or to KILL people. They are only to love people and let them know the
truth about Jesus. I am not asking for your critique of christianity so save
it. I am merely pointing out that these atrocities were no more christian than
what Hitler did.

And about the main point of this post, it has to be left up to the individual
as to what they want to listen to. Christian metal should not be dismissed as
non-genuine metal but that doesn't mean that everyone should listen to it. I
mean I don't listen to satanic metal.

thats all
gutterBoy

+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+

Blah blah blah
ck...@pcc1.com

[Snoman_]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>sno...@primenet.com (David Frost) tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>>Nietzsche was a moron. He denied God. He promoted self. Chaos only

>>leads to a eventual dictatorship...which leads to a revolt...which
>>leads to anarchy....which leads to chaos (I could, but will not go

>>on). Look at my Signature....it is true.

>>"God is dead" - Nietzsche
>>"Nietzsche is dead" - God

>He may have understood the benefits and needs of anarchy better than

>those addicted to centralized control.

>GOAT

What benefit comes from anarchy? There is noting positive that comes
from an anarchy...He obviously didn't have too much brains because he
denied the existance of God. If he would just open his eyes he could
see the works of God all around him!

Snoman

[Snoman_]

re <r...@hemma.se> wrote:

>David Frost wrote:
>>
>> Nietzsche was a moron. He denied God.

>Well. More like he denied the concept "God".

>Ie the idea of god as guarantor for the validity
>of one single perspective on the world.

>> He promoted self.

>Rather he "denied self" - ie criticized the idea
>of its unity and coherence.
>Don't try to involve the "superhuman" at this point,
>you'll just screw it all up.

>> Chaos only

>> leads to a eventual dictatorship...which leads to a revolt...which
>> leads to anarchy....which leads to chaos (I could, but will not go
>> on).

>You lifted this from Reader's Digest, admit it.

>> Look at my Signature....it is true.

>> "God is dead" - Nietzsche
>> "Nietzsche is dead" - God

>My mom actually told me that joke one time when i

>was like 14ish. I think she said granpa used to
>tell it all the time. He liked dry jokes.

> re

No I didn't lif that from "Readers Digest"..... hehehe I got it from a
Government professor. He is a brilliant man....unlike Nietzsche. I
think I would like your Grandpa. And...wether you deny the existance
of God or not you are still denying God.

[Ville Vainio]

meta...@aol.com (MetalMag) quotes:

>> Q: Why would a Christian band call themselves "BLACK METAL?"

>metal bands, have taken to that precedent. My faith's tenant's are the

>polar opposite of evil and hatred. But not anger. I am in a spiritual
>war against the forces of darkness, and thus every action I take will be
>against evil.

This seems to make some sense... as long as you are angry, it isn't
purely for calculated propaganda purposes. Xian bm, deux poeng :-)

> This is what Christian black metal is.....against the forces of evil.
>We, as Christians, know what evil is and know how to stop it. For our

Nah... you, as xians, have a completely wrong idea of what evil is.
You are just like those who preach the gospel of the Devil
(exclusively): misdirected.

BTW, if you are angry, who choose the religion of conformists?

>faith is
>strong and not weak like some may be led to believe.

Doubt is stronger...

--
Ville Vainio - vva...@cc.tut.fi - No law beyond Will<e> -
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~v153286 PGP public key available.

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

Prou...@graymist.com (ProudAngl) tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>Hail To That!!! Christians need to learn to be who they are, instead of what a
>book tells them to be.

Christianity needs to be debunked to what it is: an empathic system.
All other claims to righteousness or control of reality should be
vanquished.

We also need to perfect the Christ-on-Cross-Corn-Dog.

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

labuser <lab...@csd.uwm.edu> tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>beliefs. First of all, this is the fucking United States, and everyone
>has the right believe in whatever the hell they want to, even if it
>involves making ill-concieved, sweeping generalizations about followers
>of certain religions, or even murdering followers of those ideologies,
>as long as they don't act on those beliefs. Secondly, I go to this place
>to talk about music, not to have some kind of "religious" debate with
>some pseudo-philosophic, social-Darwinist,
>kill-everyone-who-doesn't-think-the-same-way-I-do morons.

We've never said the Christians _can't_ make what they call black
metal, only that they're fools, their music is false, they are tools
of the system and should be murdered. We make no extreme statements.

Christianity is ridiculous. It's a virus of weakness and conformity
disguised as empathy for the fellow humans. Its currency is debt, and
its obligation is to perfection, the god of the pURE.

Consequently, when they extend their idiot ideas to music clearly
emotionally, philosophically, and musically opposed to the ideas of
Christianity, Christians look stupid and seem to us reminiscent of
those who attempt to use metal as a forum for white-power or other
extreme ideologies (Rahowa, Mortification - same dif).

I can only suggest extreme care when buying music that might have
Christian content.

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

as...@here.com (Snoman_) tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>>He may have understood the benefits and needs of anarchy better than
>>those addicted to centralized control.

>>GOAT

>What benefit comes from anarchy?

1) Evolution of real moral thought.
2) No control and control abuse.
3) Greater freedom for the individual.
4) Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

>He obviously didn't have too much brains because he
>denied the existance of God. If he would just open his eyes he could
>see the works of God all around him!

He did, to borrow your language. But in his understanding of the
world those were not the "works of gOD" but perhaps the works of
chaos.

Have you read any of his writings?

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

as...@here.com (Snoman_) tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>No I didn't lif that from "Readers Digest"..... hehehe I got it from a
>Government professor. He is a brilliant man....unlike Nietzsche. I
>think I would like your Grandpa. And...wether you deny the existance
>of God or not you are still denying God.

Only in the limited intellectual space allowed by Christian
mind-control protocols. The existence of gOD is not the question; the
content and "worship" of gOD is the question. Most educated people in
this century laugh at the concept of gOD, recognizing both the ikonism
(control) and the pathology (human fear=control). We only tolerate
the ridiculous spectre of christinanity because it is an accepted
outlet for benevolence in a society with few of them!

Nietzsche's arguments are far more complex than "anarchy...leads to
chaos...which leads to THE END ABSOLUTELY." He had a grasp of
information math and could see how events migrated, evolved, and
affected reality.

GOAT

[bla...@fishpond.up.ac.za]

Parasite <para...@juno.com> wrote:

>CHRIST SODOMIZER wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the plug, comrade in chaos! I recommend also Nietzsche's
>> Genealogy of Morals, or perhaps even something simpler and more
>> anarchistic like "The Crying of Lot 49" by Thomas Pynchon.

>Nietzsche? Isn't that the wanker who spent the last 5 years of his life ranting and
>raving in an insane asylum? The same asshole who said that if the existence fo God was
>proved to him, he would deny it even further? The same guy who was shouted down and
>shamed by Fyodor Dostoyevsky? The same fuck who is idolozied by little kids who are
>atheists because they didn't like their parents dragging them to chruch on Sundays? Any
>ideology that considers him one of their greatest denfenders can't be very legitimate,
>can it?

that's the problem with having no brains! calling people wanker etc.
nietzsche was one of the most influential intelectuals of his time,
and even if you don't like it, if you actually have the brains and
time to read mr.n you'll be forced to admit that many of the things
that you believe in today have it's root in nietzshe philosophy. yes,
he did spend his last few years in an insane state, but what the fuck
does that prove? it could even happen to you.
later dogs...

>=Parasite

[Sybren]

Adam S. Henige wrote:
>
> >
> > HAHAHAHAH!!! Very good...I haven't had a laugh in a
> > while...try naming one more than a handful of european countries that
> > *weren't* attacked by over zealous xians (the crusades, the spanish
> > inquisition, the witchhunts, etc etc etc). Xianity was forced down
> > EVERYONE'S throats, but of course, you probably saw it as a series of
> > willing conversions, and not the mass genocide of heathens and such.
> > Take it outside godboy, the xian grip is finally weakening, and I
> > can't wait till the day when you TRULY have done unto you as you have
> > done unto others...
> >

> Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!
> ----Alt.ROCK-N-ROLL.METAL.DEATH----
> Sounds like music, hmmmmm.....

As stated before, this is a newsgroup on the art of gardening

Cybren

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

"Adam S. Henige" <hen...@river.it.gvsu.edu> tied off, shot up, and
wrote:

>Hitler's dead, the Crusades are over, the land lord's a witch but my
>christian roommate hasn't killed her yet...

>I love music!

Me too - the sound of Christian blood staining the floor!

GOAT

[s...@anv.net]

ck...@pcc1.com (gutterBoy) wrote:

>: HAHAHAHAH!!! Very good...I haven't had a laugh in a

>:while...try naming one more than a handful of european countries that
>:*weren't* attacked by over zealous xians (the crusades, the spanish
>:inquisition, the witchhunts, etc etc etc). Xianity was forced down
>:EVERYONE'S throats, but of course, you probably saw it as a series of
>:willing conversions, and not the mass genocide of heathens and such.
>:Take it outside godboy, the xian grip is finally weakening, and I
>:can't wait till the day when you TRULY have done unto you as you have
>:done unto others...

>Another case of not understanding christianity. These things were definetly
>done in the name of Christ but it was a lie! That was all a lie. Christ would
>never condone the things they did. They badly misrepresented Christ and
>christianity, as do many people today. If you would read the bible you would
>know that christians are not suppose to moralize the world or force views on
>people or to KILL people. They are only to love people and let them know the
>truth about Jesus. I am not asking for your critique of christianity so save
>it. I am merely pointing out that these atrocities were no more christian than
>what Hitler did.

>And about the main point of this post, it has to be left up to the individual
>as to what they want to listen to. Christian metal should not be dismissed as
>non-genuine metal but that doesn't mean that everyone should listen to it. I
>mean I don't listen to satanic metal.

>thats all
>gutterBoy

Well put gutterBoy.

[George]

> GOATGoat, I think you should just go and read a good book. You should take
a break because you comments are far more stupid than what I thought they
could be.
By the way, if you are a goat, you should check out the lyrics
from the Horde-Hellig Usvart, 'Crush the blodied horns of the goat', you
will enjoy it.

[Henry Leirvoll]

On 1 Oct 1996 00:26:57 -0400, meta...@aol.com (MetalMag) wrote:

Even though this wasn't intended for me, I hope you object too much by
my answering as well.

(following was a quoted text, sent by meta...@aol.com)

>Christianity is not weak, it is a strong relationship between Jesus
>Christ who died for all the sins of the world and humans.

Of course, this is a normal answer you'd expect from someone who are
christian - but the answer isn't good enough.

Even classical weak characters of society don't think they are weak. -
Addicts, for instance .. very rarely do they see their problem (I have
seen my share of alcoholics, for one).

So if someone challenges a alcoholic by claiming his ways are weak, an
answer like "but the alcohol is my friend", would not be adequate.

- The same goes for this christian's answer.

>Why do we Christians have to be denied certain
>styles of music?

Well, first off - you are not denied the music - you have denied
Yourselves the music.

See - Black Metal is evil, where christianity is (according to the
books, anyway) good.

there is a paradox here, and like we all learnt in school .. paradoxes
aren't compatible.

(excuse the sarcasm, I am just very fed up with people who do not see
this).

Spreading the word of "the one above" is done mistakenly, if it is
spread through aggression, violence, and destruction. - Can we agree
on that?

Well --- Death Metal and Black Metal much about music - even though
they are very different in many spectres, they both use aggression and
hatred to play their music.

ok - you may not exactly be in a "hateful" piece-of-mind if you claim
to be christian and play this music .. - but still .. when someone
listen to music and hear drummings played like a machine gun, guitars
that sound like if they were torturing someone slowly with a very thin
razor, and so on ..

where vocals are concerned, you hear someone scream out
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Then "Oh god - I see the light!" the first words in my mind.

That is the point .. - By choosing the easy way of life - by choosing
the light side of the opposing darkness, by choosing good and love
over evil and hatred .. then you are mistakenly spreading your word by
using either Death Metal or what SOUNDS like "Black" metal.

Bottom line - you cannot play Black Metal being devoted to
[insert-all-good-intending-deity-here].

>We don't. All music can be used to glorify God. We
>are not perfect so purity is not an issue here, "for all have sinned,
>and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23) and we are not
>trying to make a taxonomy here but rather continue in this genre that
>has been so closed-minded as to not let Christians enter it. Where
>did she come of with "anti-propaganda"?

How about "it is human to err", and so on..? - I mean .. if you feel
you are comitting a sin playing this music, why continue?

>Again I must state that we are not trying to cause confusion or anger
>in the metal scene but just to make people realize that there is hope
>out there and that God loves you and that He wants u to be with Him.

That May be so in some state-of-minds, but what I am convinced your
god doesn't want you to do, is let yourselves be perverted by the
likes of Black Metal philosophies.

>He sent His only Son to die for you. Does that mean nothing? How many
>people would send their child to die for people that hate him? God
>has revealed Himself to us thru His Son and we as Christians have

[..yawn..]

>taken on a new battle to win souls for Christ - the black metal
>battle. Jesus is Lord of all and He will judge the living and the
>dead and you cannot wait until that moment when we are judged to
>choose, by then it will be too late.

[..znore..]

<snap!>

Listen .. The King of Norway, the President of any country, The Pope,
or the ruler of ANYthing .. could send his only son to die for me, and
I would not give my life to him in return.

Sure, if I felt I needed saving, I would probably be somewhat
thankful, but I would Never give that person (or deitiy, for that
matter) my whole life.

God may have sent his only son to die for MY (wow) sins .. but since I
never asked for saving, how come I have to happy for it?

Hell, if I could be a sinner Without having to listen to every
chrisitan soul telling me how bad it is .. - I would LOVE it ..

Why Should I repent, when I am content?
Why Should I let myself be deceived by the light, I am at home in the
dark?

> Horde, the musical project of Anonymous, released "Hellig Usvart",
>which
>means holy unblack in norwegian. I, like virtually all of the few
>christian black
>metal bands, have taken to that precedent. My faith's tenant's are the
>polar opposite of evil and hatred. But not anger. I am in a spiritual
>war against the forces of darkness, and thus every action I take will be
>against evil.

then why even Wanting to label your music Black Metal? .. Why not
something equally dumb (as even fiddling with this music), call it
White Metal?

I mean .. you say you want to show opposition - being an adversary
(being a SATAN by the literal translation of the word), why label it
the same?

It seems to me, that you have found a style of music that you liked -
but with a message you abhorred. Not accepting that this is NOT for
you, and desperately clinging to the psychology of "I want my cake and
eat it too", you start playing music that Sounds the same, but with
QUITE the different message.

You're a rebel among rebels, christian - don't think you're something
special by playing what we should all label "White Metal".

You represent the blinding light of the day - and already you show
signs of losing that "battle against the dark".

The dark has seduced your heart - and you Will not stop calling your
music Black Metal ..

so - for ever, you will be associated with satanism whenever you
mutter .. "I play Black Metal".

- if you want out, then get out.

> This is what Christian black metal is.....against the forces of evil.
>We, as Christians, know what evil is and know how to stop it. For our
>faith is
>strong and not weak like some may be led to believe.
>
>(Sojourner)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Carmi
>
>Metal Fest Magazine
>360-23 W Schick Road,
>Suite 116, Bloomingdale, IL 60108

--
H. Leirvoll / ku...@intercom.no
- ^Heksheim / Black Metal^ -
http://www.intercom.no/~kulde

[Snoman_]

go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>labuser <lab...@csd.uwm.edu> tied off, shot up, and wrote:

>>beliefs. First of all, this is the f* United States, and everyone

>>has the right believe in whatever the hell they want to, even if it
>>involves making ill-concieved, sweeping generalizations about followers
>>of certain religions, or even murdering followers of those ideologies,
>>as long as they don't act on those beliefs. Secondly, I go to this place
>>to talk about music, not to have some kind of "religious" debate with
>>some pseudo-philosophic, social-Darwinist,
>>kill-everyone-who-doesn't-think-the-same-way-I-do morons.

>We've never said the Christians _can't_ make what they call black
>metal, only that they're fools, their music is false, they are tools
>of the system and should be murdered. We make no extreme statements.

I don't know of any Christian "Black Metal" bands...and we are not
fools for happening to like a certain style of music. I appericiate
music greatley, however I will not listen to something that says
things that I find offensive, rude, perverted, or plain stupid.

>Christianity is ridiculous. It's a virus of weakness and conformity
>disguised as empathy for the fellow humans. Its currency is debt, and
>its obligation is to perfection, the god of the pURE.

You obviousley don't know what you are talking about! It cannot be
any of what you just stated. One of the major consepts of
Christianity is that you need to live a right, moral, upright life.
You cannot say that it is a weakness. The consequinses of being a
Christian is this: you live a good life, you don't kill, you promote
free thinking, you don't lie to others, you become master of your body
(ie, you are not a drunk), you think of others before yourself.... I
could go on but I won't right now...

>Consequently, when they extend their idiot ideas to music clearly
>emotionally, philosophically, and musically opposed to the ideas of
>Christianity, Christians look stupid and seem to us reminiscent of
>those who attempt to use metal as a forum for white-power or other
>extreme ideologies (Rahowa, Mortification - same dif).

HAHAHAHAHAHA....that is the lamest excuse for an answer that I have
EVER heard!!! You seem to think that just because a few notes that
are put together implies a religious background. That is not the case
at all! I could make a instrumental masterpiece that means one thing
to someone, but just opposite that to someone else. Neither may be
what I was thinking when I wrote it....does that mean they are wrong??
NO, it is all intrepertation. No more.

>I can only suggest extreme care when buying music that might have
>Christian content.

Me too...you might improve your life...

>GOAT

[chaoslord]

s...@anv.net wrote:
>>And about the main point of this post, it has to be left up to the individual
>>as to what they want to listen to. Christian metal should not be dismissed as
>>non-genuine metal but that doesn't mean that everyone should listen to it. I
>>mean I don't listen to satanic metal.

Metal is not music for whores; Christian music is all music for
whores. Let us end this plague by ignoring any and all Christian
releases and spreading the word so all know: therein lies weakness.

GOAT

[George Li Tsai]

Yes, weakness and more weakness. Christ's decision to die is
considered weak. Satan in his pedestal stayed strong and definite of
killing Jesus. When Christ died, he had access to death through which
he went down to where Satan was, but no more in the weakness as seen by
the world. Jesus took Satan by the neck and beat him up. Who won?
The one who took the keys of death and Hades, Jesus is other words.
Who is really weak? I do not think Jesus is the one weak. The only
weak here is Satan. If the great lord of the flies is weak, then his
followers are a bunch of hypocrites and weaky people. Do not think that
because you dress in black and dare to join the legions of satan, you
are strong. Contrary, you are dumb and are preparing yourself for the
wrath of God. What a shame.

From: The Goat slayer,

[Joseph Johns]

Snoman_ (as...@here.com) wrote:
: go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

A brief(?) evaluation of the internet metal reader community.
J. Anderson Johns

ABSTRACT: This is a thorough waste of time.

Okay, so what we have here are the bleeding heart liberal (Parasite),
the argumentative christian (snoman; many subtypes, see below), the
petty pseudointellectual snob (Anderson), and the paragon of universal
evil (GOAT, also many subtypes). This review is qualitative, and
based only on my 2.5 years of participation in the metal newsgroups.

Bleeding heart liberal is not being used in the political sense,
and bleeding heart liberals are particularly sensitive to this because
liberals for the most part insist that they are not liberals. Only
flaming liberals do that, and flaming liberals tend to be about as
tolerant of christianity as the paragons of universal evil. Flaming
liberals tend not to be metalheads anyway. Regarding metal, the
bleeding heart liberal first argues the dominating importance of the
music over the lyrical content. Ironically, they tend to dismiss
things like old carcass due specifically to the lyrical content. This
is fine with me, but it makes the bleeding heart liberal a predictable
hypocrite. Since the argument is shallow in the first place, these
people complain about wasted bandwidth and go about their business.

All of the above are predictable. The major diagnostic feature of the
pseudointellectual is that they tend to call other people
pseudointellectuals. Pseudointellectuals especially tend to call
bleeding heart liberals pseudointellectuals. I do this, and since I
identify pseudointellectuals as pseudointellectuals, that makes me a
pseudointellectual. If I were a real intellectual, I really wouldn't
bother posting this to begin with. Pseudointellectuals may be
correct, but their posts, like this one, often have little to do with
metal at all. While I do not do this, pseudointellectuals often
frequent alt.atheism. I've posted all kinds of scientific crap against the
argumentative christians, who are generally not pseudointellectuals
and rather both morons and thus are fed intravenously the masturgism
of their selected propheteer, and anyway this crap did not belong in
any sort of metal discussion. These people tend to use misspellings
as arguments against whatever other participants are saying. Go away.

I have to define the paragons of universal evil before the
argumentative christians, since in some cases can influence the
stereotype of the latter. Paragons of universal basically are the
people who include upside-down crosses in their signatures. They can
be satanists, non-satanists, non-satanists who claim to be satanists,
satanists who claim to be non-satanists, christians, or people who
bought copies of the paperback "Necronomicon" because they thought is
was cool. Posts from the paragons of universal evil are generally
marginally more intelligent than those of the argumentative
christians. Like manowar fans, they tend to be in all caps, and
generally involve some sort of asystematic blasphemic provocation.
I include goat with this group, despite the fact that he will likely
oppose this assemblage, but it is justified because many of goat's posts
are as above. Paragons of universal evil tend to agree with whatever
goat says not because goat is often right or insightful, but because
goat is the most outspoken of the paragons of universal evil.
Bleeding heart liberals and pseudointellectuals almost
unilaterally oppose goat's posting to metal groups.

Argumentative christians are a sorry lot, many non-metalheads, many
fans of Paramaecium because they play music that is not only
christian, but doomy and mediocre in the spirit of notable acts as
Carpathian Full Moon and Solitude Aeturnus. Quite a few that I have
read were apparently stirred up by goat's activities on other
newsgroups, but others simply persist. Many are spammers (see
propheteers, above). I break this group down as follows.

The "Christ is Cool" Crowd: These people invariable use some
sort of verbal profanity in their posts to demonstrate.
that they are not geeks. Ex: "You fuck with the lord,
you fucken with ME." Christiscoolers are the ones who
say they are glad non-christians go to hell. These
people are geeks.

The Boneheaded Parrots: Most often read metal-related
cross-posts on other groups, though snoman qualifies
here. Basic arguments vary, but all enforce the
assumption of the truth of divinity despite the fact
that the rest of the universe doesn't care, assuming
that it notices. While pseudoscientific arguments
against evolution apply here, so do "proofs" such as
looking around and seeing divine miracles such as
wind, birds, and the virgin mary's face on a tortilla.
I don't really need to say it, but these people are
also geeks. I have a bit more respect for them over
the last groups because they are proud of it.

The Distributors of Benevolent Pity: These are the ones who
"love their brothers" and "pray for the unfortunate
who do not know god." Free will is not an issue,
because this group are as much of a gaggle as the
previous. Distributors of Benevolent Pity often offer
goat their console, often their email addresses, so
that he can talk to them and that he can share with
them the "great sorrow" he carries with him. This is
how the Distributors of Benevolent Pity rid themselves
of their own self-loathing, and of their fears that
they will die, and, just like goat, will be buried.
These people are geeks.

Goat:
: >We've never said the Christians _can't_ make what they call black

: >metal, only that they're fools, their music is false, they are tools
: >of the system and should be murdered. We make no extreme statements.

Snoman:
: I don't know of any Christian "Black Metal" bands...and we are not

: fools for happening to like a certain style of music. I appericiate
: music greatley, however I will not listen to something that says
: things that I find offensive, rude, perverted, or plain stupid.

This is the way I think it should be. Note the equal importance of
lyrical content.

: >Christianity is ridiculous. It's a virus of weakness and conformity

: >disguised as empathy for the fellow humans. Its currency is debt, and
: >its obligation is to perfection, the god of the pURE.

Typical of goat. COntains diagnostic evotivist statements, but for
the most part he avoids basing his arguments on them.

: You obviousley don't know what you are talking about! It cannot be

: any of what you just stated. One of the major consepts of
: Christianity is that you need to live a right, moral, upright life.
: You cannot say that it is a weakness. The consequinses of being a
: Christian is this: you live a good life, you don't kill, you promote
: free thinking, you don't lie to others, you become master of your body
: (ie, you are not a drunk), you think of others before yourself.... I
: could go on but I won't right now...

This allows snoman to be identified as the aforementioned Boneheaded
Parrot. Note that snoman claims that christianity promotes free
thinking, while asserting not only that goat does not know what he is
talking about, but implying subjective concepts such as "right" and
"moral" as universal.

: >Consequently, when they extend their idiot ideas to music clearly

: >emotionally, philosophically, and musically opposed to the ideas of
: >Christianity, Christians look stupid and seem to us reminiscent of
: >those who attempt to use metal as a forum for white-power or other
: >extreme ideologies (Rahowa, Mortification - same dif)

I agree with this, not due to its emotivism, but rather for its
argument. This makes me a not only a pseudointellectual, but also a geek.

: HAHAHAHAHAHA....that is the lamest excuse for an answer that I have

: EVER heard!!! You seem to think that just because a few notes that
: are put together implies a religious background. That is not the case
: at all! I could make a instrumental masterpiece that means one thing
: to someone, but just opposite that to someone else. Neither may be
: what I was thinking when I wrote it....does that mean they are wrong??
: NO, it is all intrepertation. No more.

I pose one question: How could a person interpret deliberately
pro-christian music, or deliberately pro-ethnic music as anything else
but an attempt at exposing the uninformed or playing to the
hypnogismed?

Hope this somehow makes the world a better place...

Anderson

--

Joseph A. Johns
Vermiphile
jjo...@phoenix.kent.edu

[Subterfuge]

Christianity is the complete antithesis of the ideology behind black
metal (and death metal). "Christian" black metal is a contradiction in
terms and is one of the stupidest ideas ever conceived...I don't know
why so many people seem to be confused about this.

az

[chaoslord]

jjo...@kent.kent.edu (Joseph Johns) wrote:

>Paragons of universal evil tend to agree with whatever
>goat says not because goat is often right or insightful, but because
>goat is the most outspoken of the paragons of universal evil.

WE ARE LEGION

>: >Christianity is ridiculous. It's a virus of weakness and conformity
>: >disguised as empathy for the fellow humans. Its currency is debt, and
>: >its obligation is to perfection, the god of the pURE.

>Typical of goat. COntains diagnostic evotivist statements, but for
>the most part he avoids basing his arguments on them.

A breakdown is a book, which is why. 'Only fools and
pseudointellectuals dump their goods on USENET,' says one man, but I
think only fools dump ALL of their goods on USENET.

>: >Consequently, when they extend their idiot ideas to music clearly
>: >emotionally, philosophically, and musically opposed to the ideas of
>: >Christianity, Christians look stupid and seem to us reminiscent of
>: >those who attempt to use metal as a forum for white-power or other
>: >extreme ideologies (Rahowa, Mortification - same dif)

>I agree with this, not due to its emotivism, but rather for its
>argument. This makes me a not only a pseudointellectual, but also a geek.

For form not content? Awk! Gawk!

>I pose one question: How could a person interpret deliberately
>pro-christian music, or deliberately pro-ethnic music as anything else
>but an attempt at exposing the uninformed or playing to the
>hypnogismed?

For sure! A vital kwestion, killer.

>Hope this somehow makes the world a better place...

We have no such forsaken hope.

GOAT

[chaoslord]

as...@here.com (Snoman_) wrote:

>>We've never said the Christians _can't_ make what they call black
>>metal, only that they're fools, their music is false, they are tools
>>of the system and should be murdered. We make no extreme statements.

>I don't know of any Christian "Black Metal" bands...and we are not

>fools for happening to like a certain style of music. I appericiate
>music greatley, however I will not listen to something that says
>things that I find offensive, rude, perverted, or plain stupid.

Sure, you're not fools. You're fools for taking that "avoid the
offensive" to the extreme of "listen to nothing but the songs of the
sycophant." Your music is designed to agree with you and consequently
not to challenge you at all.

>>Christianity is ridiculous. It's a virus of weakness and conformity
>>disguised as empathy for the fellow humans. Its currency is debt, and
>>its obligation is to perfection, the god of the pURE.

>One of the major consepts of

>Christianity is that you need to live a right, moral, upright life.

Your concept of morality is weak and does not take into account
distributed information systems or individual will.

>You cannot say that it is a weakness. The consequinses of being a
>Christian is this: you live a good life, you don't kill, you promote
>free thinking, you don't lie to others, you become master of your body
>(ie, you are not a drunk), you think of others before yourself.... I
>could go on but I won't right now...

E.g. you are questing for a form of purity, a "right path" and then
you will be fine. Anti-moral forces like myself find your logic
laughable and tell you, again, that it's strictly normative for
purposes of social control.

>>Consequently, when they extend their idiot ideas to music clearly
>>emotionally, philosophically, and musically opposed to the ideas of
>>Christianity, Christians look stupid and seem to us reminiscent of
>>those who attempt to use metal as a forum for white-power or other

>>extreme ideologies (Rahowa, Mortification - same dif).

>I could make a instrumental masterpiece that means one thing
>to someone, but just opposite that to someone else. Neither may be
>what I was thinking when I wrote it....does that mean they are wrong??
>NO, it is all intrepertation.

It is all interpretation. Your instrumental means nothing, and could
be interpreted in any number of ways, but its communication has become
purely musical and does not touch the ways of earth, its politics, its
religions, etc. at all.

However, music with lyrics, or music that through its composition
evokes philosophical patterning can be heavily biased and does not
have such an interpretive nothingness. E.g. if you compose with any
balls, your statement has no relevance.

>>I can only suggest extreme care when buying music that might have
>>Christian content.

>Me too...you might improve your life...

Yes, I will go from the music of the free - John Coltrane, Ornette
Coleman, R.E.M., Immortal, Burzum, Emperor, Morbid Angel, Metallica,
Slayer, Thelonious Monk, John McLaughlin, Beatles, Suffocation - where
I experience complex, artistic anti-truth, or I can dive into the easy
formation of music that communicates a religious doctrine very
clearly.

Can't say I'm inspired to regression like you are. Have fun in
solipsistic self-stimulation,

GOAT

[CHRIST SODOMIZER]

George Li Tsai <tsa...@er4.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:

>> Metal is not music for whores; Christian music is all music for
>> whores. Let us end this plague by ignoring any and all Christian
>> releases and spreading the word so all know: therein lies weakness.
>>

>Yes, weakness and more weakness. Christ's decision to die is
>considered weak. Satan in his pedestal stayed strong and definite of
>killing Jesus. When Christ died, he had access to death through which
>he went down to where Satan was, but no more in the weakness as seen by
>the world. Jesus took Satan by the neck and beat him up. Who won?
>The one who took the keys of death and Hades, Jesus is other words.

It is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, and your
interpretation reveals this by leaving out the question of autonomy.
Jesus followed the program until its conclusion but Satan moved on and
created a new world.

Evil is stronger than good; more things are in our domain, and there
is nothing we cannot accept. DEATH SUPREME rules our waking dreams.

>Do not think that
>because you dress in black and dare to join the legions of satan, you
>are strong. Contrary, you are dumb and are preparing yourself for the
>wrath of God.

I look forward to meeting your dog and defeating him when he attempts
to file me in arbitrary granules of control as my spirit surges toward
better things. I will crush him, and desecrate his ass with my
virulent tool.

GOAT

[Richard Lucas]

Joseph Johns <jjo...@kent.kent.edu> wrote in article
<53h5p3$o...@tombstone.kent.edu>...

> Snoman_ (as...@here.com) wrote:
> : go...@anus.com (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:
>
> A brief(?) evaluation of the internet metal reader community.
> J. Anderson Johns
>
> ABSTRACT: This is a thorough waste of time.
>

I read with interest your comments on the so called 'Internet metal reader
community'. I have only recently started reading News articles, mainly
those from alt.black.metal, but have experienced in a short time the
different types of contributors that you have identified. I agree with the
sentiments of the article, regarding the lack of intelligent debate, I
propose that it is partly due to the fact that we expect too much from the
contributors.

The problem is, as you stated, partly due to the group of
pseudo-intellectual pretend-nihilists, who once read extracts of Nietzsche,
bought
a copy of the Satanic Bible, heard about Crowley and listen to Cradle Of
Filth because of the vamperotic artwork.

These kinds of people are only contributing to the newsgroups for the 'I'm
more evil than you are' one-upmanship, this being their only method of
expression. If they had something useful to say, people would probably
listen to them. Since they do not, the News system gives a captive audience
who may disregard their comments, but who do actually notice them, which is
the intention.

The Internet does seem to attract the dregs of society who find it
difficult to socialise, or fit in with society. I have read several
newspaper articles by psychologists on the subject. It takes less strength
of character to insult someone thousands of miles away, psychologically
separated by a computer screen and Internet connection.

I hope that you have found my comments interesting, I would be interested
to hear your response if you have any more thoughts on the matter?

(I am also curious as to which category of users you consider that I fit
into!)

====Richard Lucas===
[cth...@innotts.co.uk]
=================

(Please address any University related correspondence to
st3...@doc.ntu.ac.uk)

"I Am Providence"...

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