Software installation methods

[Graham Hobbs]

Hello,

Am hoping to sell my software package to sophisticated Windows users.

I don't plan to use the 'fancy' fashion I see on most Windows software
installations because I don't know how. So, for the installation
process, is it reasonable to ask users to:

- create a directory e.g. c:\crdinst
- add this directory to their CMD windows path
- unzip my zip'ped software file thereto
- make minor configuration changes to three txt files therein

Any expertise out there who can advise, please and thanks,

Graham Hobbs

[Bob]

Graham Hobbs typed the following on 8/26/2012 6:25 PM:

Greetings Graham,
I believe a "sophisticated Windows user" could deal with your
installation requirements. I also believe that the regular
posters/readers of this news group might be coerced into
providing you with an installation batch file script that
may help those "un-sophisticated Windows users" as well.

Best wishes Graham!

[Graham Hobbs]

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 20:54:23 -0400, Bob <no_e...@unsound.unfit>
wrote:

---
Bob
Thanks for the confirmation and wishes .. sadly I don't seem to be
getting any other response:-(
Graham

[foxidrive]

On Tuesday 28/08/2012 01:02, Graham Hobbs wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 20:54:23 -0400, Bob <no_e...@unsound.unfit>
> wrote:
>
>> Graham Hobbs typed the following on 8/26/2012 6:25 PM:
>>> Am hoping to sell my software package to sophisticated Windows users.
>>>
>>> I don't plan to use the 'fancy' fashion I see on most Windows software
>>> installations because I don't know how. So, for the installation
>>> process, is it reasonable to ask users to:
>>>
>>> - create a directory e.g. c:\crdinst

Why not in program files?

>>> - add this directory to their CMD windows path

Is this necessary? Can it run from a batch file that is stored in %windir% and so is on the path?

>>> - unzip my zip'ped software file thereto

Us a self extracting archive. No need to assume the archiver is present.

>>> - make minor configuration changes to three txt files therein

details, details, details. If you want help with a batch file, then provide some. :)



--
Mic

[Graham Hobbs]

---
Mic,

Details ?? jeez, what a pain:-)

Was hoping you'd be there! Thanks. Am not totally dumb with DOS, just
75%; am utterly a COBOL, CICS, VSAM, DB2, JCL thing. Also not even
sure I was in the right group for this question. I want to market to
ANY Windows platform and thought my method cleverly avoided any
vagaries thereof.

So..

- do all Windows versions have a 'Program Files"?
- %windir% (%systemroot%) seems somewhat dependent on what the OS is
- self extracting archive; this I googled; it seems the WinZip that I
use can do this; but there seems to be a security issue with self
extractors PLUS ..

.. my zip file, emailed to users (unless there's a safer way other
than snail mail), will contain 107 files e.g.

25/06/2012 06:44 PM 3,296 cutvargo.rex
27/09/2011 11:35 AM 196 cuudogenab.cmd
23/08/2012 10:45 PM 189,756 DJ20.BTR
21/08/2012 12:50 PM 10,934 parminst
08/07/2012 10:34 PM 16,349 parmuser
01/05/2012 10:36 AM 217 pcabend1.txt
10/09/2010 02:01 PM 200,192 stepd15.exe
10/09/2010 02:01 PM 186,880 STEPD16.exe

Might the rex's, cmd's and many exe's be security probs? If so, how
does one distribute such to users?
Graham

[foxidrive]

Your application is a 32 bit one, right?

> - do all Windows versions have a 'Program Files"?

Yes, from Win95 and up TTBOMK.

> - %windir% (%systemroot%) seems somewhat dependent on what the OS is

Again, from Win95 and up it is present.

> - self extracting archive; this I googled; it seems the WinZip that I
> use can do this; but there seems to be a security issue with self
> extractors PLUS ..

What security issues?

> .. my zip file, emailed to users (unless there's a safer way other
> than snail mail), will contain 107 files e.g.
>
> 25/06/2012 06:44 PM 3,296 cutvargo.rex
> 27/09/2011 11:35 AM 196 cuudogenab.cmd
> 23/08/2012 10:45 PM 189,756 DJ20.BTR
> 21/08/2012 12:50 PM 10,934 parminst
> 08/07/2012 10:34 PM 16,349 parmuser
> 01/05/2012 10:36 AM 217 pcabend1.txt
> 10/09/2010 02:01 PM 200,192 stepd15.exe
> 10/09/2010 02:01 PM 186,880 STEPD16.exe
>
> Might the rex's, cmd's and many exe's be security probs? If so, how
> does one distribute such to users?

Your files should be ok if they pass an AV scanner.

Some thoughts:

A batch file can be included inside the archive but then the archive has to be extracted before it can be launched.

You can include the program files\program_name\ folder inside the archive, with the files in it.

Some email providers block/rename batch files so sending it with the archive isn't always going to succeed - but you could make the batch file downloadable.
That'd be another complication.


Maybe you should spend the time and investigate an installer package, I think there are many to choose from.


--
Mic

[Axel Berger]

Graham Hobbs wrote:
> sadly I don't seem to be getting any other response:-(

My take on reading your request was "user interface". It is certainly
possible, even easy, to achieve your goal with a batch. Windows users
expect a graphic interface, though. So, at least that's my experience, a
text screen saying "type name of directory to install in" or something
will totally panic them. And all those at all comfortable with an
inerface like that, will, I think, find following your simple and
straightforward instructions easier than submitting to a batch routine
like that.

Qustion:
All those setup.exe out there look very much alike. I'd imagine there
exists some template out there making it easy to roll your own. That way
they'd all feel at home.

Axel

[Todd Vargo]

There are a few issues needing addressed here.

First, what is a sophisticated Windows user? For sake of argument, let's
assume you mean those who are familiar with using the command prompt.
Sure, they can follow your directions. It's the ones who are not that
will be challenged with installing your software. Those are the people
you really need to be asking.

Second, you do not indicate what the software is or does. If it is some
utility intended to be used at a command prompt, those who are
accustomed to using it should have no problem, but those who don't have
a steep learning curve ahead. If it's a GUI program, I would want to
know what it does that it needs to be included on the PATH or configured
to know about unrelated paths.

Third, again, you do not indicate what the software is or does. If it is
something intended for the home user, and the instructions are clear,
you have a chance of them getting it installed. If its something they
might like to use at work also, there is an even greater chance it will
not be installed. Even home versions of Windows 7 require a
sysadmin/password to create a root folder. In a locked down business
environment, most companies have a "no unapproved software" policy, so
they are going to have to ask someone in IT to test, get authorization,
and install it. If its not something a manager would consider as adding
value to their operation, it is not likely they will give a blessing for
IT to install it.

Good luck with you your project.

--
Todd Vargo
(Post questions to group only. Remove "z" to email personal messages)

[Graham Hobbs]

---
Axel, Mic, Todd,
Am pondering your replies .. am learning much!
All my clients will be IBM shops, they will have PC knowledge,
guaranteed. My first objective is Windows workstations. Next I'll
convert the software to run on AIX workstations (a total mystery) and
z/OS machines (where am comfortable).
Hey Todd, did you see the name of the first file on my little list on
an earlier post .. how about that!!
Many of the clients could be AIX where my software doesn't yet run ..
briefly put .. converting a dozen CMD files into AIX scripts. Anybody
know anybody who might know about that?
- 32 bit - yes
- sophisticated users .. I mean those familiar with command prompt and
basic commands
- program files/%windir% - TTBoMK?? whats that
- haven't seen any roll your own templates out there yet
- security issues: winzip/google told me that; also when I emailed my
zip file to my yahoo email address it determined that I had 'CMD'
files therein but can't remember offhand if it would/wouldn't
accept/download the email; was a problem anyhow; had sort of assumed
that AV's would determine if any baddies were therein
- will look into 'installer packages'
- would creating 'c:\>md crdusr' be a problem for a business company;
is such defined as a 'root folder'?
- I sort of hope clients will buy it, install it on one Windows PC,
test thereon then distribute to CICS/COBOL programmers with PC
workstations (or give access via a server?)
- nothing about the software is GUI, install or execution run from the
command prompt; executing would be a really, really neat GUI app but I
don't have the skills, energy or time to do that
thanks again, ttfn
graham

[Brian Cryer]

"Graham Hobbs" <gho...@cdpwise.net> wrote in message
news:jd8l38lar7doilapm...@4ax.com...

> Hello,
>
> Am hoping to sell my software package to sophisticated Windows users.
>
> I don't plan to use the 'fancy' fashion I see on most Windows software
> installations because I don't know how. So, for the installation
> process, is it reasonable to ask users to:
>
> - create a directory e.g. c:\crdinst
> - add this directory to their CMD windows path
> - unzip my zip'ped software file thereto
> - make minor configuration changes to three txt files therein

NO!!!

> Any expertise out there who can advise, please and thanks,

1. Do you need an installer? I have seen some utilities where you simply
download the exe and run it. If that is all and you don't need anything else
then you can perhaps reasonably get away with an installer.

2. If you have more than one file or need files to be created in a
particular way or with a particular organisation or "make minor
configuration changes" then you really should use an installer. It isn't
difficult and it needn't cost you anyting. Personally I use Inno Setup (
http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php ) which I use with the freeware I give
away.

If this is a software package that you want to sell, then alt.msdos.batch
probably isn't the right group to be asking your question in - not that I
can suggest which would be the right one.

Hope this helps.
--
Brian Cryer
http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian

[Graham Hobbs]

---
It does! Am looking at the isinfo site.
Thanks

[Todd Vargo]

On 8/28/2012 2:37 PM, Graham Hobbs wrote:

> Axel, Mic, Todd,
> Am pondering your replies .. am learning much!
> All my clients will be IBM shops, they will have PC knowledge,
> guaranteed. My first objective is Windows workstations. Next I'll
> convert the software to run on AIX workstations (a total mystery) and
> z/OS machines (where am comfortable).
> Hey Todd, did you see the name of the first file on my little list on
> an earlier post .. how about that!!

Sorry, I don't know which earlier post that was.

> Many of the clients could be AIX where my software doesn't yet run ..
> briefly put .. converting a dozen CMD files into AIX scripts. Anybody
> know anybody who might know about that?
> - 32 bit - yes
> - sophisticated users .. I mean those familiar with command prompt and
> basic commands
> - program files/%windir% - TTBoMK?? whats that
> - haven't seen any roll your own templates out there yet
> - security issues: winzip/google told me that; also when I emailed my
> zip file to my yahoo email address it determined that I had 'CMD'
> files therein but can't remember offhand if it would/wouldn't
> accept/download the email; was a problem anyhow; had sort of assumed
> that AV's would determine if any baddies were therein
> - will look into 'installer packages'
> - would creating 'c:\>md crdusr' be a problem for a business company;
> is such defined as a 'root folder'?
> - I sort of hope clients will buy it, install it on one Windows PC,
> test thereon then distribute to CICS/COBOL programmers with PC
> workstations (or give access via a server?)
> - nothing about the software is GUI, install or execution run from the
> command prompt; executing would be a really, really neat GUI app but I
> don't have the skills, energy or time to do that
> thanks again, ttfn
> graham
>

Given all that you mention above, your recipients should have no problem
installing manually. However, since you plan to distribute by email, I
would rename all of the CMD files to .txt before zipping and mention it
in the instructions. This will at least make sure the zipfile wont be
removed in transit by an AV.

[Graham Hobbs]

On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 22:37:56 -0400, Todd Vargo
<tlv...@sbcglobal.netz> wrote:

>On 8/28/2012 2:37 PM, Graham Hobbs wrote:
>
>> Axel, Mic, Todd,
>> Am pondering your replies .. am learning much!
>> All my clients will be IBM shops, they will have PC knowledge,
>> guaranteed. My first objective is Windows workstations. Next I'll
>> convert the software to run on AIX workstations (a total mystery) and
>> z/OS machines (where am comfortable).
>> Hey Todd, did you see the name of the first file on my little list on
>> an earlier post .. how about that!!
>
>Sorry, I don't know which earlier post that was.

Have lost the little list but one entry was cutvargo.cmd being
something you sent me many moons ago.

---
That's what I though too about the zip. I'll have to rename .CMD's,
.REX's and .EXE's .. bit of a nuisance but doable since my users will
all have relevant skills.
Are AV's smart enough to remove offending files or just drop the whole
thing?

[foxidrive]

On Thursday 30/08/2012 12:53, Graham Hobbs wrote:

>> Given all that you mention above, your recipients should have no problem
>> installing manually. However, since you plan to distribute by email, I
>> would rename all of the CMD files to .txt before zipping and mention it
>> in the instructions. This will at least make sure the zipfile wont be
>> removed in transit by an AV.
> ---
> That's what I though too about the zip. I'll have to rename .CMD's,
> .REX's and .EXE's .. bit of a nuisance but doable since my users will
> all have relevant skills.
> Are AV's smart enough to remove offending files or just drop the whole
> thing?

If you have always on broadband then setting up an FTP server and putting the ZIP file there is an option.
Password protect the account and email the peeps a link to the file.


--
Mic

[Axel Berger]

Graham Hobbs wrote:
> That's what I though too about the zip.

Are you sure that's necessary? Admittedly my settings are liberal as I
mostly rely on Brain 1.0 for my security, but so far I've never
encountered a system deleting ZIPs, naked EXEs etc. yes, but not
archives.

OTOH traditional netiquette dislikes big binary attachments anyway and
personally I do so very much. Why not send a link? If no links in the
web lead to the file and the recipient has to know the full path and
name, that's as safe as a name and password scheme IMHO.

Axel

[Graham Hobbs]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:10:23 +0200, Axel Berger <Axel....@Gmx.De>
wrote:

---
Axel, Mic,
Every time I ponder out load evokes new info .. more to think of! ..
is much appreciated.
Will study what I've got and then maybe a final question (if nobody
minds).
cheers
graham

[Todd Vargo]

On 8/29/2012 10:53 PM, Graham Hobbs wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 22:37:56 -0400, Todd Vargo wrote:

>> Given all that you mention above, your recipients should have no problem
>> installing manually. However, since you plan to distribute by email, I
>> would rename all of the CMD files to .txt before zipping and mention it
>> in the instructions. This will at least make sure the zipfile wont be
>> removed in transit by an AV.
> ---
> That's what I though too about the zip. I'll have to rename .CMD's,
> .REX's and .EXE's .. bit of a nuisance but doable since my users will
> all have relevant skills.
> Are AV's smart enough to remove offending files or just drop the whole
> thing?
>

Each AV handle it differently. Some will just block the file completely
without notification, others may quarantine them with a notification.