getting TZ and daylight saving offset
Andreas Weber
is it possible to get the current timezone
and if enabled the daylight saving offset
from/within a batch file?
Andi
Pegas...@yahoo.com
wrote:
You could use w32tm.exe.
Timo Salmi
143} How do I get the current time zone in a script?
http://www.netikka.net/tsneti/info/tscmd143.htm
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi mailto:t...@uwasa.fi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/
Hpage: http://www.uwasa.fi/laskentatoimi/english/personnel/salmitimo/
Department of Accounting and Finance, University of Vaasa, Finland
Useful CMD script tricks http://www.netikka.net/tsneti/info/tscmd.htm
Dr J R Stockton
Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:34:23, Timo Salmi <t...@uwasa.fi> posted:
>Andreas Weber <andrea...@digital-filestore.de> wrote:
>> is it possible to get the current timezone
>> and if enabled the daylight saving offset
>> from/within a batch file?
>
> 143} How do I get the current time zone in a script?
> http://www.netikka.net/tsneti/info/tscmd143.htm
Alas, #143 is in terminological error.
Time zones, by definition. are geographically fixed and do not move with
the season. Helsinki, etc., remain firmly fixed in the +2 time zone,
all year round. The codes give the offsets from UTC, and only in Winter
(if there is Summer Time at the location) does that correspond with the
Time Zone.
Win XP : wmic OS Get CurrentTimeZone
clearly gives (Local Time - UTC) in minutes.
Win XP : w32tm / tz
is less clear to me - you have the advantage that your Winter Offset,
Summer Offset, and clock change are all different values, 120 180 60.
WinXP : systeminfo | findstr /b "Time Zone:"
does get the zone, expressed as a time offset.
The best way, easy enough in JavaScript, to get the true Time Zone is to
set January 1 and July 1, get both Offsets, choose whichever of the two
is larger as being Winter Time, and use that. But I may mean smaller.
Or to use W32tm /tz and read the "Standard Name:" line. The names
themselves are Microsoft's view, and outside the USA do not necessarily
correspond with reality.
Since the OP is posting from .de, I expect that he does want the real
time zone; but "daylight saving" is not English for "Sommerzeit"
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Timo Salmi
>> 143} How do I get the current time zone in a script?
>> http://www.netikka.net/tsneti/info/tscmd143.htm
> Alas, #143 is in terminological error.
John, the item delves into whatever information the XP computer offers
under the hood. The interpretation of the terminology and the usage of
the results is up to the user, since mine is a scripting FAQ, not a
calendar intricacies treatise. But thank you for the refinements. Always
welcome.
Andreas Weber
>> [...]
> Time zones, by definition. are geographically fixed and do not move with
> the season. Helsinki, etc., remain firmly fixed in the +2 time zone,
> all year round. The codes give the offsets from UTC, and only in Winter
> (if there is Summer Time at the location) does that correspond with the
> Time Zone.
Really strange. I tested all five scripts at:
http://www.netikka.net/tsneti/info/tscmd143.htm
saved them to test1.bat, test2.bat, etc., and run
them with a helper batchfile named testrun.bat
---snip---
@echo off
REM short date format of computer is set to YYYY-MM-DD (ISO format)
for /f "tokens=1-3 delims=./-" %%f in ("%date%") do (
set TODAY=%%f-%%g-%%h
)
date 2009-01-01
echo date 2009-01-01 (winter)
call %1
date 2009-06-01
echo date 2009-06-01 (summer)
call %1
date %TODAY%
---snap---
and run this batch with each batch/script file in an admin
elevated console (vista) and got these outputs
---snip---
D:\timezone>testrun.bat test1.bat
date 2009-01-01 (winter)
Bias: -60 minutes
UTC+(1.0)
date 2009-06-01 (summer)
Bias: -60 minutes
UTC+(1.0)
D:\timezone>testrun.bat test2.bat
date 2009-01-01 (winter)
CurrentTimeZone: minutes
date 2009-06-01 (summer)
CurrentTimeZone: minutes
D:\timezone>testrun.bat test3.bat
date 2009-01-01 (winter)
(GMT+01:00) Amsterdam, Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna
GMT+01:00
date 2009-06-01 (summer)
(GMT+01:00) Amsterdam, Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna
GMT+01:00
D:\timezone>testrun.bat test4.bat
date 2009-01-01 (winter)
TZbias=Input
date 2009-06-01 (summer)
TZbias=Input
D:\timezone>testrun.bat test5.bat
date 2009-01-01 (winter)
TZbias=60
TZdaylightBias=-60
date 2009-06-01 (summer)
TZbias=60
TZdaylightBias=-60
---snap---
but all five files are not very useful for me, bcause
I can't see if "summertime" (Sommerzeit) is set or not.
btw: second and fourth script are very unuseful in vista ;-)
anyway, can't see differnces between the summer and winter
> Win XP : wmic OS Get CurrentTimeZone
> clearly gives (Local Time - UTC) in minutes.
this looks good to me, but have a strange problem with unicode
or codepage I think. On my vista box. At the console I have
the following output:
---snip---
D:\timezone>testrun.bat test10.bat
date 2009-01-01 (winter)
CurrentTimeZone
60
date 2009-06-01 (summer)
CurrentTimeZone
120
---snap---
looks good and there is a diffrence between summer and winter
but how can I use this vals to differentiate and use them
in a batchfile? for ex. how can I put the 60 in a envvar?
Or how can I build the diffrence ant put that in a var.
then I could use something like:
if ."%DIFF%"==."0" goto ...
or
if ."%DIFF%"==."60" set foo=bar
First I tried to pipe the ouptut to a text file but that
file looks very strange (looks like a binary file) :-( How can
I avoid this (don't know what exact) unicode/multibyte/codepage
issue?
if I type out the piped text file "D:\timezoen>type test.txt" I get
---snip---
date 2009-01-01 (winter)
u r r e n t T i m e Z o n e
6 0
date 2009-06-01 (summer)
u r r e n t T i m e Z o n e
1 2 0
---snap---
hmmm ???
> Win XP : w32tm / tz
> is less clear to me - you have the advantage that your Winter Offset,
> Summer Offset, and clock change are all different values, 120 180 60.
>
> WinXP : systeminfo | findstr /b "Time Zone:"
> does get the zone, expressed as a time offset.
>
>
> The best way, easy enough in JavaScript, to get the true Time Zone is to
> set January 1 and July 1, get both Offsets, choose whichever of the two
> is larger as being Winter Time, and use that. But I may mean smaller.
How would you do that?
> Or to use W32tm /tz and read the "Standard Name:" line. The names
> themselves are Microsoft's view, and outside the USA do not necessarily
> correspond with reality.
with that I get (not with the helper batch file. Just the normal console
---snip---
D:\adm\timezone>w32tm /tz
Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: -60min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
[Standard Name:"W. Europe Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:10 D:5 DoW:0)]
[Daylight Name:"W. Europe Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:5 DoW:0)]
---snap---
but in the "Standard Name:" line I can't see if it is
"Sommerzeit". How can I determine the "Sommerzeit"
And what is the meaning of M:XX and D:X? DoW can be "Day of Week"
but today its Sutarday (usually in Germany the sixth day, and seventh day
in english speaking countries) and it is not the 0. or 5. day like the D:X
val shows. And it is not the month 10. or 3. it is (ISO format: 2009-05-02)
So D:X can mean the month?
Really strange.
> Since the OP is posting from .de, I expect that he does want the real
> time zone; but "daylight saving" is not English for "Sommerzeit"
I mean the "Sommerzeit". Think in english it is named
"daylight saving" isn't it?
Andi
Dr J R Stockton
2 May 2009 21:26:35, Andreas Weber <andrea...@digital-filestore.de>
posted:
>
>---snip---
>D:\adm\timezone>w32tm /tz
>Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: -60min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
> [Standard Name:"W. Europe Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:10 D:5 DoW:0)]
> [Daylight Name:"W. Europe Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:5 DoW:0)]
>---snap---
>
>but in the "Standard Name:" line I can't see if it is
>"Sommerzeit". How can I determine the "Sommerzeit"
>And what is the meaning of M:XX and D:X? DoW can be "Day of Week"
>but today its Sutarday (usually in Germany the sixth day, and seventh day
>in english speaking countries)
Saturday is the seventh day in American-speaking countries (they ignore
Genesis Chapter 2 verses 2,3). British business uses sixth, in
agreement with ISO 8601. Outside business we don't need day-of-week
numbering, but we use "weekend" as you presumably use "wochenende".
Calendars and diaries here used to start the week on Sunday; but now
they mostly use Monday.
> and it is not the 0. or 5. day like the D:X
>val shows. And it is not the month 10. or 3. it is (ISO format: 2009-05-02)
>So D:X can mean the month?
>Really strange.
They will mean that the change TO that time is in the month M (of
1..12), on day-of-week DoW (0 = Sunday, since they believe day 0 to be
the first day of the week), and on the D'th instance of that day-of-week
in that month, where 5 means last. That expresses the change-dates used
throughout the Brussels Empire and the ex-Soviet one. It is a subset of
TZ notation; TZ also gives the time-of-change (as what the clocks are
changed from, rather than doing it all sensibly in UTC), but MS didn't
bother to include that.
>> Since the OP is posting from .de, I expect that he does want the real
>> time zone; but "daylight saving" is not English for "Sommerzeit"
>
>I mean the "Sommerzeit". Think in english it is named
>"daylight saving" isn't it?
No. In English it is "Summer Time". Across the Atlantic they use a
different language which they incorrectly call English. Many of their
words are the same (perhaps mis-spelt); somewhat fewer have exactly the
same meaning(s).
One can use, in Windows, Windows Script Host (WSH) to execute
JavaScript, a language which is standardised by ISO/IEC 16262.
JavaScript can determine the Winter and Summer offsets, and the change
date/times. WSH+JS can be used to set environment variables. I don't
think I have an example of exactly what you want on my site; but I have
parts which could be put together.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk DOS 3.3 6.20 ; WinXP.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links.
PAS EXE TXT ZIP via <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/00index.htm>
My DOS <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/batfiles.htm> - also batprogs.htm.
sunw...@hughes.net
Andreas you helped me out on something years ago. I hope this helps you.
w32tm /tz >utcz
findstr Current: utcz >utczz
binsub utczz "Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: "
binsub utczz min
binsub utczz (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
set /p Num=<utczz
set /a Num=%Num%/60*-1
echo %Num%
Frank Westlake
seems to me that either would be correct if the application is specified, as does W32TM, but which is the correct form if it is not specified whether
the bias is to be added or subtracted with UTC? In other words: if not stated otherwise, is a bias added to UTC to get zone time, or is it added to
the zone time to get UTC?
For copy/paste conveniance:
WMIC OS Get CurrentTimeZone
W32tm /tz
I assume that WMIC's "CurrentTimeZone" should be read as a bias.
Frank
Stanley Daniel de Liver
my results are:
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
C:\WINDOWS>WMIC OS Get CurrentTimeZone
CurrentTimeZone
60
C:\WINDOWS> W32tm /tz
Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: 0min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
[Standard Name:"GMT Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:10 D:5 DoW:0)]
[Daylight Name:"GMT Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:5 DoW:0)]
C:\WINDOWS>
We are now in BST known as "GMT Daylight Time", so it would appear to me
that the clock runs at local time and the bias "CurrentTimeZone" is
applied to get UTC.
--
It's a money /life balance.
billious
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 23:07:57 +0100, Frank Westlake
> CurrentTimeZone
> 60
>
>
> C:\WINDOWS> W32tm /tz
> Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: 0min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
> [Standard Name:"GMT Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:10 D:5 DoW:0)]
> [Daylight Name:"GMT Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:5 DoW:0)]
>
> C:\WINDOWS>
>
> We are now in BST known as "GMT Daylight Time", so it would appear to me
> that the clock runs at local time and the bias "CurrentTimeZone" is
> applied to get UTC.
>
>
>
>
[Standard Name:"W. Australia Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(unspecified)]
[Daylight Name:"W. Australia Daylight Time" Bias:-60min
Date:(unspecified)]
So it would appear that the standard time +bias = UTC and 'daylight'
time is the extra bias over standard time
I suppose truth-in-advertising prevents Microsoft from referring to
"British Summer Time" - but "GMT Daylight Time" is "Greenwich Mean Time
Daylight Time" - so we're back to gobbledegook.
Frank Westlake
> ... if not stated otherwise, is a bias added to UTC to get zone
C:\w>WMIC OS Get CurrentTimeZone
CurrentTimeZone
-420
C:\w> W32tm /tz
Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: 480min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
[Standard Name:"Pacific Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:11 D:1 DoW:0)]
[Daylight Name:"Pacific Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:2 DoW:0)]
WMIC returns a negative bias and W32TM returns a positive bias
(480-60=420). Billious is correct about the way the math works. I don't
recall the source for that information but I have read it several times.
The three values for "Current:" are:
TIME_ZONE_ID_UNKNOWN
TIME_ZONE_ID_STANDARD
TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT
In the case of "TIME_ZONE_ID_UNKNOWN" I seems that the current value is
used without adjustment.
I'll put our three samples together for reference and do the math for
comparison:
STANLEY
[Standard Name:"GMT Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:10 D:5 DoW:0)]
[Daylight Name:"GMT Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:5 DoW:0)]
CurrentTimeZone= 60
BILLIOUS
[Standard Name:"W. Australia Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(unspecified)]
[Daylight Name:"W. Australia Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(unspecified)]
CurrentTimeZone= 480 (A guess.)
FRANK
Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: 480min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
[Standard Name:"Pacific Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:11 D:1 DoW:0)]
[Daylight Name:"Pacific Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:2 DoW:0)]
Bias= 420 (480 + -60)
CurrentTimeZone= -420
The system in Greenwich Mean Time Daylight Time does not match my
expectation. My system has opposite signs in the W32TM and WMIC values
so I expected the other two to have the same.
So to rephrase my question again: huh?
Frank
Frank Westlake
> Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: 0min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
> [Standard Name:"GMT Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:10 D:5 DoW:0)]
> [Daylight Name:"GMT Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:5 DoW:0)]
> Bias= 60 (0 + 0)
> CurrentTimeZone= 60
perhaps I should apply for a patent. Whatever the math is it seem
inappropriate for this work so I'll use something more conventional and
display the new results.
STANLEY
Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_DAYLIGHT Bias: 0min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
[Standard Name:"GMT Standard Time" Bias:0min Date:(M:10 D:5 DoW:0)]
[Daylight Name:"GMT Daylight Time" Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:5 DoW:0)]
CurrentTimeZone= 60
Now it matches my expectation, but my questions remain.
Frank
billious
WA hasn't got DST - tried it four times, doesn't work here, hence the
unspecified. Also now Autumn so DST wouldn't be in effect if we had it.
So: take system time; add bias to get GMT; add extra bias if DST in
effect. OR local time = GMT - standard time bias - DST bias if
applicable. Probably programmed that way because those who commissioned
the change would see their time moving FORWARD (and hence +) to get GMT.
DST takes effect on the day specified (DOW) the daynumber and the month
and standard time is resumed on the matching specification.
Frank Westlake
> So: take system time;
Adding to the confusion, "System Time" is defined as UTC. The system
normally applies the bias before presenting the time to a user. Your
system's time is not equal to your system's System Time unless you're
somewhere near the prime meridian during a part of the year where the
total bias is zero.
> add bias to get GMT; add extra bias if DST in effect.
> OR local time = GMT - standard time bias - DST bias if applicable.
using LocalTime=UTC+Bias. W32TM goes to the trouble of telling us how it
is applying the bias and WMIC does not, so I'm guessing that WMIC is
doing it properly and W32TM is using something other than standard. So
my question is that if it is not specified, which is correct:
UTC=LocalTime+Bias
LocalTime=UTC+Bias
Frank
billious
as "System Time" would be the time displayed by the BIOS, and I can't
see that as being adjusted for TZ. The bias isn't known until the
software is loaded, and the BIOS time is set to local time by the vendor.
UTC=Localtime+BIOS seems to be the system in use. The other would be
logical.
Dr J R Stockton
Apr 2013 15:07:57, Frank Westlake <frank.w...@gmail.com> posted:
>This is a question for Doctor Stockton.
am not. It is an honorary title denoting profession. It may be
abbreviated to Dr., which also is the form generally used by academics;
and my title is as I give it, in that form. Titles, other than those of
Royalty and the higher nobility, should not be translated into an
author's vernacular.
love standards so much that, whenever an American needs one, he invents
one. If reference to existing international standards is made,
observation suggests that it is commonly made to ensure disagreement.
So the answer is a definite "I don't know", for any US software
situation. The rest of the world is less innovative, and is likely to
follow an established standard. For general IT work, the standard is
ISO 8601. Those who do not want to buy ISO 8601 can consult either
Wikipedia or the appropriate Markus Kuhn.
For test purposes, it is better to consult those outside the superior
GMT time zone, where the offset from GMT is non-zero year-round, which
makes misinterpretation less likely.
It is not clear from your question whether you understand Time Zone.
Time Zones are determined by the Winter offset from GMT, and do not
change seasonally.
Of your convenient examples : WMIC's output is wrong (presumably
whenever Summer Time is active), and W32tm's output is largely
inscrutable but certainly mis-names the times used here in Greater
London.
YSCIB.
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. �@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
billious
> In alt.msdos.batch.nt message <kjrvm9$kg0$1...@news.albasani.net>, Sat, 6
> Apr 2013 15:07:57, Frank Westlake <frank.w...@gmail.com> posted:
>
>> This is a question for Doctor Stockton.
>
> In English, "Doctor" is customarily used only for medics, among which I
> am not. It is an honorary title denoting profession. It may be
> abbreviated to Dr., which also is the form generally used by academics;
> and my title is as I give it, in that form. Titles, other than those of
> Royalty and the higher nobility, should not be translated into an
> author's vernacular.
>
It is used for anyone who has been awarded a doctorate and also for
medical practitioners, but not for dentists and veterinary surgeons who
have usurped the title.
Here's one of many on Cambridge's site:
http://www.tfm.phy.cam.ac.uk/directory/pe...@cam.ac.uk/
Frank Westlake
> Apr 2013 15:07:57, Frank Westlake <frank.w...@gmail.com> posted:
>
>> This is a question for Doctor Stockton.
>
> In English, "Doctor" is customarily used only for medics, among which I
> am not. It is an honorary title denoting profession. It may be
> abbreviated to Dr., which also is the form generally used by academics;
> and my title is as I give it, in that form. Titles, other than those of
> Royalty and the higher nobility, should not be translated into an
> author's vernacular.
no other way to pronounce it than "doctor jay are stockton". Contrary to
academic belief, the written language is a reflection of the spoken
language, not vice versa, and I try to write as I speak. However, I do
both poorly so it is not unreasonable that you did not understand any of
my message.
> You are referring to software by Microsoft ...
No, I am referring to the definition of or the convention for the word
"bias" as it is used with respect to time and time zone adjustments.
> It is not clear from your question whether you understand Time Zone.
> Time Zones are determined by the Winter offset from GMT, and do not
> change seasonally.
time zones, including operating systems and other layered software
systems.
Frank
Frank Westlake
>> 2013-04-08 08:55, billious:
>> > So: take system time;
>>
>> Adding to the confusion, "System Time" is defined as UTC. The system
> as "System Time" would be the time displayed by the BIOS, and I can't see that
> as being adjusted for TZ. The bias isn't known until the software is loaded,
> and the BIOS time is set to local time by the vendor.
time used by the the Windows NT operating system, which is UTC. The
confusion is in that the word "system" applies to many other relevant
things, such as computer system and Basic Input/Output System. Your use
of the phrase "system time" above is not incorrect, I just wanted to
point out that it could easily be confused with "System Time", which
would be incorrect in that statement.
> UTC=Localtime+BIOS seems to be the system in use. The other would be logical.
without amplification. One application says that the time bias is -480
minutes and the another application says that the time bias is 480
minutes. WMIC actually uses the label "CurrentTimeZone", but since an
offset in minutes is not a time zone I assume they mean "current time
bias", which is an offset in minutes. Without any further description I
should be able to know if a time bias is added to UTC or added to local
time. If I look only at W32TM, which includes the short math expression
"UTC=LocalTime+Bias" then there is no confusion. It might be that bias
is normally added to UTC instead of local time, but that does not matter
because they have shown us what to do. If I look only at WMIC then I
need to know what that standard or convention is in order to correctly
apply the bias. I can easily assume from the values on my computer that
WMIC is using "LocalTime=UTC+bias" but I still want to know the answer
for other applications which might expect the programmer to know such
things. I don't want to assume that WMIC is using the term "bias"
correctly. I thought not-a-Doctor Stockton would know but he seems more
interested in attacking peoples and languages.
Frank
Dr J R Stockton
Apr 2013 06:00:28, Frank Westlake <frank.w...@gmail.com> posted:
>2013-04-08 15:27, Dr J R Stockton:
>> In alt.msdos.batch.nt message <kjrvm9$kg0$1...@news.albasani.net>, Sat, 6
>> Apr 2013 15:07:57, Frank Westlake <frank.w...@gmail.com> posted:
>>
>>> This is a question for Doctor Stockton.
>>
>> In English, "Doctor" is customarily used only for medics, among which I
>> am not. It is an honorary title denoting profession. It may be
>> abbreviated to Dr., which also is the form generally used by academics;
>> and my title is as I give it, in that form. Titles, other than those of
>> Royalty and the higher nobility, should not be translated into an
>> author's vernacular.
>
>Hogwash. Your e-mail address name reads "Dr J R Stockton" and I know of
>no other way to pronounce it than "doctor jay are stockton".
>Contrary to
>academic belief, the written language is a reflection of the spoken
>language, not vice versa, and I try to write as I speak.
without trying to be clever.
> However, I do
>both poorly so it is not unreasonable that you did not understand any of
>my message.
>
>> You are referring to software by Microsoft ...
>
>No, I am referring to the definition of or the convention for the word
>"bias" as it is used with respect to time and time zone adjustments.
either ignore it or intentionally deviate. Recall that Sir Winston
Churchill is reported to have said that "the Americans can always be
relied on to do the right thing - after exhausting all other
possibilities".
But you can be sure that a seasonal change will always advance the clock
in or near local or nearby Spring, and retard it correspondingly in
Autumn.
>> It is not clear from your question whether you understand Time Zone.
>> Time Zones are determined by the Winter offset from GMT, and do not
>> change seasonally.
>
>I did not misunderstand that, but it is true that software does change
>time zones, including operating systems and other layered software
>systems.
that. It can only change time zone settings, which often but not always
are intended to reflect the situation of a user's location.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. For Mail, see Home Page. Turnpike, WinXP.
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQ-type topics, acronyms, and links.
Command-prompt MiniTrue is useful for viewing/searching/altering files. Free,
DOS/Win/UNIX now 2.0.6; see <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/pc-links.htm>.
Frank Westlake
> There is no definition in ISO 8601;
convention.
> Recall that Sir Winston Churchill is reported to have said that "the
> Americans can always be relied on to do the right thing - after
> exhausting all other possibilities".
trust what others do.
>> I did not misunderstand that, but it is true that software does change
>> time zones, including operating systems and other layered software
>> systems.
>
> Software cannot change time zones; only legislatures and similar can do
> that. It can only change time zone settings, which often but not always
> are intended to reflect the situation of a user's location.
being in another time zone", but you would have found something else to
attack. It seems that you often employ the straw man method to transfer
attention from your errors and irrelevancies to anything else you can
find to pick on. I have no respect for you J R Stockton.
Frank
Dr J R Stockton
Apr 2013 06:06:04, Frank Westlake <frank.w...@gmail.com> posted:
>2013-04-10 11:00, Dr J R Stockton:>
>> Usenet is not a spoken medium.
>
>Irrelevant -- English is a spoken language. Was that a straw man?
you, you could equally well say rite, right, wright, or write.
>> There is no definition in ISO 8601;
>
>That I know. My hope was that you would at least know which was the
>convention.
considered manner, and let others sort out the ensuing difficulties.
However, Microsoft often includes the right way, if there is one, in the
various ways that they use.
The correct solution, of course, is not to use an arbitrary "bias"
convention, but to use a self-explanatory term (and to use it in
accordance with the self-explanation) such as "offset from GMT" - for
which it is clear that Beijing will have a positive offset and America
will be 'behind the times'.
To understand any particular use of "bias" in this context, it is best
to be in a region sufficiently far from the Greenwich Meridian and
currently using Summer Time. By considering both the numbers and the
real world, one can then reliably understand the meaning of that
particular "bias".
>> Recall that Sir Winston Churchill is reported to have said that "the
>> Americans can always be relied on to do the right thing - after
>> exhausting all other possibilities".
>
>It is a very good method of determining which is right when you don't
>trust what others do.
wrong ways. The wise learn from the successes and mistakes of others;
the unwise repeat those mistakes.
>>> I did not misunderstand that, but it is true that software does change
>>> time zones, including operating systems and other layered software
>>> systems.
>>
>> Software cannot change time zones; only legislatures and similar can do
>> that. It can only change time zone settings, which often but not always
>> are intended to reflect the situation of a user's location.
>
>I could have stated "software does change from being in one time zone to
>being in another time zone", but you would have found something else to
>attack.
data should change.
> It seems that you often employ the straw man method to transfer
>attention from your errors and irrelevancies to anything else you can
>find to pick on. I have no respect for you J R Stockton.
Stanley Daniel de Liver
<repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> In alt.msdos.batch.nt message <kk6cg2$f7s$1...@news.albasani.net>, Thu, 11
> Apr 2013 06:06:04, Frank Westlake <frank.w...@gmail.com> posted:
>
>> 2013-04-10 11:00, Dr J R Stockton:>
>>> Usenet is not a spoken medium.
>>
>> Irrelevant -- English is a spoken language. Was that a straw man?
>
> I do not hear you here. I only see what you write. If I were hearing
> you, you could equally well say rite, right, wright, or write.
date matters, for some input, yet you seem to go out of your way to insult
contributors from the other side of the pond. Please cut out the jibes, as
all it does is make you come over as a pompous ass/arse.
example retained:
>>> Americans can always be relied on to do the right thing - after
>>> exhausting all other possibilities".
Dr J R Stockton
2013 14:56:42, Stanley Daniel de Liver <ad...@127.0.0.1> posted:
>On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:51:38 +0100, Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.
>
>> In alt.msdos.batch.nt message <kk6cg2$f7s$1...@news.albasani.net>, Thu, 11
>> Apr 2013 06:06:04, Frank Westlake <frank.w...@gmail.com> posted:
>>
>>> 2013-04-10 11:00, Dr J R Stockton:>
>>>> Usenet is not a spoken medium.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant -- English is a spoken language. Was that a straw man?
>>
>> I do not hear you here. I only see what you write. If I were hearing
>> you, you could equally well say rite, right, wright, or write.
>
>Come on, doc, you're being asked, as an acknowledged expert in time and
>date matters, for some input, yet you seem to go out of your way to
>insult contributors from the other side of the pond. Please cut out
>the jibes, as all it does is make you come over as a pompous ass/arse.
It is not possible to explain the reasoning for the American choices of
the exact meaning of "bias" in this context, because there isn't any.
Remember : they are a people whose electoral system is in part
determined by the time taken to travel by horse from the far west of
their country to Washington DC, without allowing for the fact that the
country extends even further west nowadays. Perhaps they have got
better horses and buggy-whips now.
The appropriate terminology is clearly indicated in ISO 8601.
To find out what Microsoft means, ask Microsoft.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. E-mail, see Home Page. Turnpike v6.05.
Website <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc. : <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see in 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
billious
> Your inferiority complex is noted.
WTMKF, you pompous twat.