Terribly OT - the last of blackface
Harlett O'Dowd
I've noticed that while George Murphy admits it's old-fashioned, we
still get the full minstrel routine of "Mandy" in the film version of
Berlin's THIS IS THE ARMY in 1943. But 11 years later, a similar
"Mandy" minstrel routine had to resort to the conceit of being a
rehearsal in WHITE CHRISTMAS so that Bing and Danny Kaye would not have
appeared in blackface.
And, IIRC, the cast of the TV AMOS N ANDY (1951-53) also had to stop
with the blackface, which may have prompted the WHITE CHRISTMAS
decision a year or two later.
SO
What was the last american film to feature blackface as if it were an
everyday show biz conceit? TITA, Bing in HOLIDAY INN, THE JOLSON STORY
and IF YOU KNEW SUSIE are the last that come to mind. Any others from
the 40s and beyond?
Bill Coleman
http://www.themakeupgallery.info/character/yellow/1950s/torch.htm
Bill Coleman
---------------
Vitaphone
"Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote in message
news:1161181361....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> And, IIRC, the cast of the TV AMOS N ANDY (1951-53) also had to stop
> with the blackface, which may have prompted the WHITE CHRISTMAS
> decision a year or two later.
>
Andy"television show. I've seen most episodes of this (great!) show, and can't
say as I recall that any of the extremely talented players needed or appeared in
blackface.
Jeff
David Weiner
>
>What was the last american film to feature blackface as if it were an
>everyday show biz conceit? TITA, Bing in HOLIDAY INN, THE JOLSON STORY
>and IF YOU KNEW SUSIE are the last that come to mind. Any others from
>the 40s and beyond?
THE EDDIE CANTOR STORY (1954) is probably one of the last. And Doris
Day did a scary blackface routine in one of her 50s musicals - can't
remember which one.
Dave Weiner
Harlett O'Dowd
I'm admittedly fuzzy on this, but I recall someone, maybe Tim
*Kingfish* Moore, lamenting that, while he wore blackface on stage and,
I believe ON the radio, for some/most/all of the TV series the cast was
compelled to do away with the practice. Moore (or whoever) felt
decidedly UN-funny without the mask on and felt his work suffered as a
result.
The story may be in Goldman's Jolson biography, I'll doublecheck when I
get a chance.
James Roots
That's easy -- BAMBOOZLED!
Jim
Jim Beaver
"Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote in message
news:1161181361....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Well, as I mentioned in a thread on another topic just yesterday, I did
blackface for an episode of LOIS AND CLARK in 1993. But it was for an
"invisible man" special effect, so it doesn't really count here. But, hey,
it was a chance to insert myself in the thread, so....
Jim Beaver
Gary Mack
The guys who did Amos & Andy on radio - Freeman Gosden and Charles Correll - were white. But the actors on the TV version were all black. The tv show would never have gotten on the air if white guys were doing black face.
GM
bigsil...@aol.com
Gary Mack wrote:
> The guys who did Amos & Andy on radio - Freeman Gosden and Charles Correll - were white. But the actors on the TV version were all black. The tv show would never have gotten on the air if white guys were doing black face.
>
> GM
I think it was Charles Correll who did make one special apperance on
the "Amos 'n' Andy" TV program in blackface and since some of the TV
characters had also worked with him in radio, this seemed very
reasonable to me when I saw the program. I should still have it
somewhere.
Simply being in "Blackface" shouldn't necessarily mean that the
program is mean spirited as many today assume. "Blackface" can
certainly be used to demean the black race, but it can also be done in
an affirming way just as it has been done from time to time in some
films and stage plays. Shirley Temple's "The Little Rebel" is slammed
for her appearing in blackface, but the film certainly isn't racist
IMO.
I guess a good question might be: What is wrong with portraying a
different race of people if it is done with respect? If "Blackface" is
wrong, isn't the same true for portraying Asian and Arab and a host of
other races?
Rich Wagner
Harlett O'Dowd
Gary Mack wrote:
> The guys who did Amos & Andy on radio - Freeman Gosden and Charles Correll - were white. But the actors on the TV version were all black. The tv show would never have gotten on the air if white guys were doing black face.
I'm sure that's true, but some of the TV cast had worked on the radio
show and/or worked in blackface elsewhere. And blacks in blackface
wasn't uncommon. Bert Williams spent most of his career in blackface.
Lloyd Fonvielle
> I guess a good question might be: What is wrong with portraying a
> different race of people if it is done with respect? If "Blackface" is
> wrong, isn't the same true for portraying Asian and Arab and a host of
> other races?
The term blackface generally refers to an American theatrical tradition
involving a highly caricatured and often demeaning representation of a
black person by a white person. I don't think one would refer to
Laurence Olivier's make-up for "Othello" as blackface -- at least, I
think it would be misleading to do so.
=================
Nowhere Confidential:
Vitaphone
Stacia
>I'm admittedly fuzzy on this, but I recall someone, maybe Tim
>*Kingfish* Moore, lamenting that, while he wore blackface on stage and,
>I believe ON the radio, for some/most/all of the TV series the cast was
>compelled to do away with the practice. Moore (or whoever) felt
>decidedly UN-funny without the mask on and felt his work suffered as a
>result.
About a week or two ago, TCM showed "Hollywood Without Makeup" (1963)
and in it I saw a clip of the Amos & Andy radio actors getting ready to
appear in a parade. Before the parade they were in suits with no
makeup, but during they were in blackface. The footage was probably
from the 1940s, though, if memory serves.
Stacia
Eric Stott
"Stacia" <sta...@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:eh617t$sir$1...@news.xmission.com...
That would have been Gosden & Correll- without the makeup nobody would have
connected them with Amos n' Andy.
The pair had nice voices and made some sweet duet records in the 20's.
Stott
Neil Midkiff
> What was the last american film to feature blackface as if it were an
> everyday show biz conceit? TITA, Bing in HOLIDAY INN, THE JOLSON STORY
> and IF YOU KNEW SUSIE are the last that come to mind. Any others from
> the 40s and beyond?
Once again it depends on your definition of "blackface" -- does it have
to be exaggerated to count?
One understated dark makeup that had escaped my attention until recently
is Fred Astaire's "Steppin' Out With My Baby" number in EASTER PARADE.
He seems to have borrowed Lena Horne's "Light Egyptian" pancake . . .
there's certainly no hint of burnt cork there, but in the new video
transfer on the DVD that came out last year it's quite clear that a
non-Caucasian effect is intended. Older transfers had this whole number
looking a bit washed-out, with Fred's white suit almost glowing, and had
made the makeup less noticeable. (The older video versions also didn't
properly match the brightness and contrast of the cuts into and out of
the slow-motion special-effect part of the dance.)
Exaggerated blackface was still the order of the day in BABES ON
BROADWAY (1941) with a full-fledged minstrel sequence for Mickey and Judy.
-Neil Midkiff
Harlett O'Dowd
Vitaphone wrote:
> "Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote in message news:1161196571.8...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Gary Mack wrote:
> > > The guys who did Amos & Andy on radio - Freeman Gosden and Charles Correll - were white. But the actors on the TV version were all black. The tv show would never have gotten on the air if white guys were doing black face.
> >
> > I'm sure that's true, but some of the TV cast had worked on the radio
> > show and/or worked in blackface elsewhere. And blacks in blackface
> > wasn't uncommon. Bert Williams spent most of his career in blackface.
>
>
>
>
>
> A good point, although not (I believe) applicable to the TV incarnation
> of "Amos & Andy," where the (comparatively) very light-skinned
> Alvin Childress ("Amos") shows no evidence of artificial darkening of
> any sort. (To be fair, the practice isn't unknown today. Remember
> the Time magazine cover of O.J. Simpson?)
No, I think you're missing my point - my initial comment was that, an
actor from A&A, and, I believe, a black member of the cast, who HAD
worn minstrel/Jolson styled blackface earlier in his career did not
*feel* funny when he was forced to play the same part on TV without the
grostesque mask.
mikeg...@gmail.com
Lloyd Fonvielle wrote:
> bigsil...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I guess a good question might be: What is wrong with portraying a
> > different race of people if it is done with respect? If "Blackface" is
> > wrong, isn't the same true for portraying Asian and Arab and a host of
> > other races?
>
> The term blackface generally refers to an American theatrical tradition
> involving a highly caricatured and often demeaning representation of a
> black person by a white person. I don't think one would refer to
> Laurence Olivier's make-up for "Othello" as blackface -- at least, I
> think it would be misleading to do so.
Yet when Alec Guinness played an Indian in A Passage to India, people
did refer to it in terms of being a blackface role.
Yul Brynner and Anthony Quinn were lucky to die before they were told
it was racist to play kings of Siam, Greeks (either tycoons or Zorbas),
French painters, robot cowboys, etc.
Eric Stott
<mikeg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161213943....@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Yul Brynner and Anthony Quinn were lucky to die before they were told
> it was racist to play kings of Siam, Greeks (either tycoons or Zorbas),
> French painters, robot cowboys, etc.
>
portrayals less of a stretch than, say, Richard Dix playing an indian (even
though Dix pulls it off very well) but in the main you have a valid point.
Still, the greatest deception still goes on unrecognized- thousands of
Canadian actors passing as British, or (gasp) Americans.
Stott
mikeg...@gmail.com
Eric Stott wrote:
> Well, both Brynner & Quinn had enough ethnic diversity to make their
> portrayals less of a stretch than, say, Richard Dix playing an indian (even
> though Dix pulls it off very well) but in the main you have a valid point.
> Still, the greatest deception still goes on unrecognized- thousands of
> Canadian actors passing as British, or (gasp) Americans.
>
> Stott
Oh, and Jeffrey Wells mentioned a rare reverse example of the same
vintage the other day-- Omar Sharif in aryanface to play a German in
Night of the Generals. (I've seen this a million years ago on TV, but
can't remember how extreme and improbable his makeup actually was.)
Bill Ferry
blackface. By the way, did Keefe Brasselle do any blackface numbers in THE
EDDIE CANTOR STORY? That would bring things up to 1952-1953.
"Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote in message
news:1161181361....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Robert Miller
new movie, THE LAST KING OF SCOTLAND.
The interview was on Tuesday's edition of NPR's "Fresh Air," and you can
hear it here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6283205
The specific comments come between 8:50 and 9:30 into the program.
Jim Reid
1954.
R H Draney
>
>Didn't Judy Garland do a blackface number in A Star is Born? That's
>1954.
By the strangest coincidence, I just happened to watch a "Rowan & Martin's
Laugh-In" from March of 1969 in which the news segment was introduced by the
female regulars in full minstrel-show blackface (except Teresa Graves, who was
in whiteface)...they were accompanied onstage by guest star Tony Curtis (*not*
in blackface) pretending to play a banjo....r
--
"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.
James Roots
Dash it, we've been outed! Quick, grab Stott and smuggle him
back across the border to the Lorne Green School of Broadcasting
Arts! We'll torture him by forcing him to watch hours of The
Hart and Lorne (Michaels) Terrific Hour!
Jim,
Canada's Dear Leader
Harlett O'Dowd
Jim Reid wrote:
> Didn't Judy Garland do a blackface number in A Star is Born? That's
> 1954.
Yes, but Judy did, for the lack of a better term, "realistic" blackface
for ASIB - unlike the minstrel/Jolsonesque blackface she wore in
EVERYBODY SING and whichever Rooney/Garland BABES (on Broadway?)
picture they did "Waitin' on the Robert E Lee."
Jim Reid
R H Draney wrote:
> By the strangest coincidence, I just happened to watch a "Rowan & Martin's
> Laugh-In" from March of 1969 in which the news segment was introduced by the
> female regulars in full minstrel-show blackface (except Teresa Graves, who was
> in whiteface)...they were accompanied onstage by guest star Tony Curtis (*not*
> in blackface) pretending to play a banjo....r
I'm not sure if you're trying to figure the latest actual performance
you would include a parody of blackface. If you're doing that it would
have to be the movie Bamboozled.
mikeg...@gmail.com
I guess the real question has become-- the last non-ironic,
non-self-conscious use of blackface.
(By the way, no one has mentioned Soul Man, with C. Thomas Howell, and
of course the Monty Python guys occasionally turned up playing
Africans, as in The Meaning of Life.)
David Weiner
<chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote:
Judy most definitely does NOT wear blackface in A STAR IS BORN, but
did in EVERYBODY SING, BABES IN ARMS and BABES ON BROADWAY.
Dave Weiner
Harlett O'Dowd
David Weiner wrote:
>
> Judy most definitely does NOT wear blackface in A STAR IS BORN, but
> did in EVERYBODY SING, BABES IN ARMS and BABES ON BROADWAY.
In the restored version she sings "Get Your Long Face Lost" with a
couple of young black children in, one assumes to be, some sort of
mixed-race get-up. She's not nearly as dark there as Crawford is in
"Two Faced Woman" in TORCH SONG or, even Streisand in her TV special
BARBRA STREISAND ... AND OTHER MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS (1973)
Stacia
>I'm not sure if you're trying to figure the latest actual performance
>you would include a parody of blackface. If you're doing that it would
>have to be the movie Bamboozled.
I never saw the movie, but Roger Ebert said there was blackface in the
recent "Dukes of Hazzard" movie.
Stacia
StormChaser
On Oct 18, 7:25 pm, "mikegeb...@gmail.com" <mikegeb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Lloyd Fonvielle wrote:
> > bigsilent...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > > I guess a good question might be: What is wrong with portraying a
> > > different race of people if it is done with respect? If "Blackface" is
> > > wrong, isn't the same true for portraying Asian and Arab and a host of
> > > other races?
>
> > The term blackface generally refers to an American theatrical tradition
> > involving a highly caricatured and often demeaning representation of a
> > black person by a white person. I don't think one would refer to
> > Laurence Olivier's make-up for "Othello" as blackface -- at least, I
> > think it would be misleading to do so.Yet when Alec Guinness played an Indian in A Passage to India, people
> did refer to it in terms of being a blackface role.
>
> Yul Brynner and Anthony Quinn were lucky to die before they were told
> it was racist to play kings of Siam, Greeks (either tycoons or Zorbas),
> French painters, robot cowboys, etc.
How about Halle Berry playing a role in an upcoming movie
based on a real life school teacher who was a white woman?
I don't consider that whiteface.
What I do consider "blackface" is the demeaning
portrayal of blacks by whites based on racist stereotypes
and dialects as mentioned.
"Blackface", hypothetically, would mean the portrayal of one
group by another by using gestures and dialects considered
insulting by portrayed group.
Though Alec Guiness' portrayal of an East Indian in PTI
was of the slightly high-pitched variety, that might have
been the only accent he could remain consistent with.
He was a character actor of great integrity on par with
Lon Chaney. Lon Chaney could portray Asians so well
that you forgot you were watching him doing it. These
two actors were able to use subtle gestures as acting
tools so that the performances was complimentary of the
subjects.
Yul Brynner was exotic looking anyway, so it wasn't a stretch
for him.
I read not long ago on the internet that a guy in Maryland
is fighting for the right to continue wearing blackface
and performing Al Jolson songs at events he is hired
to perform in.
A look at his stage make-up showed him with exaggerated
lips and eyes, and a matted hair wig.
People who think we've progressed from
the days of the minstrel show need only
look at this person.
Bruce Calvert
clearly a comic turn.
--
Bruce Calvert
--
Visit the Silent Film Still Archive
http://home.comcast.net/~silentfilm/home.htm
Vitaphone
from the 1980's (?) where Wilder appeared in blackface, and enough
was made of it to include the scene in trailers and TV adverts as being
one of the highlights.
Could have been "Silver Streak."
Jeff
Lloyd Fonvielle
> I guess the real question has become-- the last non-ironic,
> non-self-conscious use of blackface.
That's a tricky one, since traditional blackface is by its nature an
ironic and self-conscious theatrical practice. The "make-up" was
conventionally exaggerated to make its artificiality clear. The real
question might be when was the last use of blackface that wasn't
presented with some indication to the audience that the practice was
controversial.
James Roots
> mikeg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I guess the real question has become-- the last non-ironic,
>> non-self-conscious use of blackface.
>
> That's a tricky one, since traditional blackface is by its nature an
> ironic and self-conscious theatrical practice. The "make-up" was
> conventionally exaggerated to make its artificiality clear. The real
> question might be when was the last use of blackface that wasn't
> presented with some indication to the audience that the practice was
> controversial.
WATERMELON MAN ... does that count?
Jim
(known as Banana Man to his many female admirers)
bigsil...@aol.com
StormChaser wrote:
> What I do consider "blackface" is the demeaning
> portrayal of blacks by whites based on racist stereotypes
> and dialects as mentioned.
>
> "Blackface", hypothetically, would mean the portrayal of one
> group by another by using gestures and dialects considered
> insulting by portrayed group.
>
Thanks for providing a definition for this subject. While many
examples of 'blackface' are obviously offensive, I believe you can
divide types of characters in 'blackface' into three groups:
Offensive, Unintentionally offensive and finally; Not Offensive except
for those who insist that it can never not be offensive for someone to
masquerade as being black.
I'm interested in film history. I'm always fascinated when an
African-American is included in a film where it's not a stereotype, but
they are portrayed equally along white actors in a film. One old
example is "Old Ironsides" where (real life boxer) George Godfrey's
character worked hand in hand with Wallace Beery.
I'm presently watching the 1915 film, "Martyrs of the Alamo" and I
couldn't help noticing the one single character in 'blackface' was
featured in scenes throughout the film. At the end of the battle at
the Alamo, he's seen reloading rifles for Jim Bowie as the room fills
with Mexican soldiers. While the make-up used resulted in a character
more like Al Jolson than a real African-American, the character never
seemed offensive.
Surprised by this (I don't remember seeing any blacks at the Alamo
before), I went searching and soon learned about the real life slave,
"Alamo Joe" who was one of the few actual survivors. Seems that he was
both shot and stabbed by bayonets during the battle, yet survived only
to be returned to the Travis family who owned him. In my search, I've
learned that the 2004 film "Alamo" also featured a slave in the cast.
My point? In my opinion, this is an example of a 'blackfaced'
character portraying a real life person in a historical drama. Had he
not been included in the story, probably no one would have noticed. He
wasn't there for humor and his role in the film was not offensive.
Rich Wagner
Hal Erickson
that Jolson wore blackface
in RHAPSODY IN BLUE and Eddie Cantor did likewise in THE STORY OF WILL
ROGERS to hide their actual ages when the movies were made. In fact, Jolie
is first seen applying the finishing touches on his makeup in his
dressing-room appearance in RHAPSODY; it surely was no accident that he
never appeared as "himself".
Does that idiotic scene in Neil Diamond's THE JAZZ SINGER count as genuine
blackface...or the scene in which Woody Allen morphs into a black man in
ZELIG?
--Hal E
Matt Barry
"Hal Erickson" <hl...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:12jg1vr...@corp.supernews.com...
> Not to veer too far off the basic subject, but I was under the impression
> that Jolson wore blackface
> in RHAPSODY IN BLUE and Eddie Cantor did likewise in THE STORY OF WILL
> ROGERS to hide their actual ages when the movies were made. In fact, Jolie
> is first seen applying the finishing touches on his makeup in his
> dressing-room appearance in RHAPSODY; it surely was no accident that he
> never appeared as "himself".
>
I read that Frank Sinatra's first film appearance in a 1935 musical short
shot in a New York City nightclub had to be performed in blackface because
the director felt he and his fellow performers looked entirely too thin. I
believe this film is lost now so it may be impossible to know for sure.
--
Matt Barry
Visit my pages at:
http://mbarry84.tripod.com
http://filmreel.blogspot.com
Eric Stott
"James Roots" <ag...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:eh7qii$grr$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca...
Actually, my Father's parents were both Canadian- from a community called
Asbestos.
So, I'm Canadian by Adoption, as I am adoptred.
Stott
James Roots
Way to blow your cover, man.
Wojeck, take this guy into the backroom. He's of no further
use to us now.
Jim
David Weiner
<chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote:
The song is "Lose That Long Face" and Judy playes a freckled newsboy -
definitely NOT a black character - in the preceding dressing room
scene, she is shown making up for the number by stippling freckles on
her face - that's it for the makeup. She's supposed to be a raffish,
other-side-of-the-tracks character in a mixed-race lower-class city
neighborhood, but she ain't black!
Dave Weiner
R H Draney
>
>"Eric Stott" (estott@localnetoSPAMcomMODE) writes:
>>
>> Actually, my Father's parents were both Canadian- from a community called
>> Asbestos.
>> So, I'm Canadian by Adoption, as I am adoptred.
>
>
>Wojeck, take this guy into the backroom. He's of no further
>use to us now.
How could we have missed it?...the Paul Anka posters should have tipped us
off....r
James Roots
> James Roots filted:
>>
>>"Eric Stott" (estott@localnetoSPAMcomMODE) writes:
>>>
>>> Actually, my Father's parents were both Canadian- from a community called
>>> Asbestos.
>>> So, I'm Canadian by Adoption, as I am adoptred.
>>
>>Way to blow your cover, man.
>>
>>Wojeck, take this guy into the backroom. He's of no further
>>use to us now.
>
> How could we have missed it?...the Paul Anka posters should have tipped us
> off....r
Paul Anka?!?! He was supposed to be a Tragically Hip fan!
Geesh, Stott, with undercover agents like you, it's no
wonder the RCMP is owned by Disney!
This calls for an expose by Patrick Watson and Laurier Lapierre!
Jim
(heading for the barricades)
precode
>
> By the strangest coincidence, I just happened to watch a "Rowan & Martin's
> Laugh-In" from March of 1969 in which the news segment was introduced by the
> female regulars in full minstrel-show blackface (except Teresa Graves, who was
> in whiteface)...they were accompanied onstage by guest star Tony Curtis (*not*
> in blackface) pretending to play a banjo....r
>
Well, if we're including TV, the clear winner is "Saturday Night Live;"
Darryl Hammond still occasionally plays Jesse Jackson (albeit with only
semi-dark make-up), and back when he was a regular, Billy Crystal
popped the burnt cork to play Sammy Davis and Prince.
Mike S.
"Murder's all right, Mr. Chan, but you wholesales it!"--Mantan Moreland
W. Lydecker
plunking away (clawhammer) on the Fordham Rd many moons ago.
This of course was before the Baldies were around. On second think,
maybe they were the reason he suddenly went Hollywood.