I still have a full screen TV. Does anyone know of either the MOC or Kino Die Niebulungen &/or the new Kino Early Lang br's allow zooming to defeat the window boxing? If not, I'll buy the dvd's.
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>I still have a full screen TV. Does anyone know of either the MOC or Kino >Die Niebulungen &/or the new Kino Early Lang br's allow zooming to defeat >the window boxing? If not, I'll buy the dvd's.
Isn't that a function of the blu-ray player, not the disc?
> I still have a full screen TV. Does anyone know of either the MOC or Kino Die Niebulungen&/or the new Kino Early Lang br's allow zooming to defeat the window boxing? If not, I'll buy the dvd's.
> --------------= Posted using GrabIt =----------------
> ------= Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
> -= Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/ =-
What is the window boxing on a 'full screen' TV?
I think I just worked it out. I've never tried a bluray player on an old CRT tv, but I would try the different settings in the setup menu. There are quite a lot on a Sony bluray player.
Zoom controls are generally useless, only good for 4:3 letterboxed 2.35:1, which fills up a 16:9 screen on zoom. I just remembered zoom controls only exist on 16:9 TVs.
I don't know about bluray authoring. I would look into it, about 4:3 settings. But I'm presuming there is really no anamorphic on bluray, just 16:9. So if the picture is actually 16:9 and no other version, then there is no real solution, except to get a DVD. I wonder what kind of picture quality you expect with a bluray on an SDTV.
> On 30/10/2012 11:40 AM, Moo wrote:
>> I still have a full screen TV. Does anyone know of either the MOC or Kino >> Die Niebulungen&/or the new Kino Early Lang br's allow zooming to defeat >> the window boxing? If not, I'll buy the dvd's.
>> --------------= Posted using GrabIt =----------------
>> ------= Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
>> -= Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/ =-
> What is the window boxing on a 'full screen' TV?
> I think I just worked it out. I've never tried a bluray player on an old > CRT tv, but I would try the different settings in the setup menu. There > are quite a lot on a Sony bluray player.
> Zoom controls are generally useless, only good for 4:3 letterboxed 2.35:1, > which fills up a 16:9 screen on zoom. I just remembered zoom controls > only exist on 16:9 TVs.
> I don't know about bluray authoring. I would look into it, about 4:3 > settings. But I'm presuming there is really no anamorphic on bluray, just > 16:9. So if the picture is actually 16:9 and no other version, then there > is no real solution, except to get a DVD. I wonder what kind of picture > quality you expect with a bluray on an SDTV.
My Panasonic blu-ray will output a 16:9 aspect ratio picture to a CRT tv as a letterboxed image. It doesn't zoom it.
If you have an old CRT tv and no plans to upgrade in the near future to HDTV, then I'd stay with DVD. Buy combo DVD/Blu-ray sets where you can.
> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:k6oscs$o1s$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 30/10/2012 11:40 AM, Moo wrote:
>>> I still have a full screen TV. Does anyone know of either the MOC or Kino
>>> Die Niebulungen&/or the new Kino Early Lang br's allow zooming to defeat
>>> the window boxing? If not, I'll buy the dvd's.
>>> --------------= Posted using GrabIt =----------------
>>> ------= Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
>>> -= Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/ =-
>> What is the window boxing on a 'full screen' TV?
>> I think I just worked it out. I've never tried a bluray player on an old
>> CRT tv, but I would try the different settings in the setup menu. There
>> are quite a lot on a Sony bluray player.
>> Zoom controls are generally useless, only good for 4:3 letterboxed 2.35:1,
>> which fills up a 16:9 screen on zoom. I just remembered zoom controls
>> only exist on 16:9 TVs.
>> I don't know about bluray authoring. I would look into it, about 4:3
>> settings. But I'm presuming there is really no anamorphic on bluray, just
>> 16:9. So if the picture is actually 16:9 and no other version, then there
>> is no real solution, except to get a DVD. I wonder what kind of picture
>> quality you expect with a bluray on an SDTV.
> My Panasonic blu-ray will output a 16:9 aspect ratio picture to a CRT tv as
> a letterboxed image. It doesn't zoom it.
> If you have an old CRT tv and no plans to upgrade in the near future to
> HDTV, then I'd stay with DVD. Buy combo DVD/Blu-ray sets where you can.
> Derek
Last night I took the bluray of Wings 4:3 silent movie, and tried to get it to show properly on my tv which was set to 4:3. This involved setting the bluray player to output at 480p/576p. I could not get it to look right.
I think the best was when I used the zoom on the tv as well, which can't be done with a CRT tv. I tried various settings on the bluray player, I now understand the problem. bluray just isn't in 4:3.
DVDs will have 4:3 which is then stretched to 16:9 (anamorphic). I don't believe anything of the kind happens with bluray.
> Last night I took the bluray of Wings 4:3 silent movie, and tried to get > it to show properly on my tv which was set to 4:3. This involved setting > the bluray player to output at 480p/576p. I could not get it to look > right.
> I think the best was when I used the zoom on the tv as well, which can't > be done with a CRT tv. I tried various settings on the bluray player, I > now understand the problem. bluray just isn't in 4:3.
> DVDs will have 4:3 which is then stretched to 16:9 (anamorphic). I don't > believe anything of the kind happens with bluray.
Tell us more about your TV. An older CRT tv will not be able to display a 480p signal, only a 480i. Not sure what you're player will do without looking at the manual. My Panasonic doesn't indicate it can display a 4:3 image at full 4:3 size on a CRT. I suspect it would windowbox the 4:3 image within a letterboxed 16:9 image output to the CRT.
> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:k6qad1$k3f$1@dont-email.me...
>> Last night I took the bluray of Wings 4:3 silent movie, and tried to get
>> it to show properly on my tv which was set to 4:3. This involved setting
>> the bluray player to output at 480p/576p. I could not get it to look
>> right.
>> I think the best was when I used the zoom on the tv as well, which can't
>> be done with a CRT tv. I tried various settings on the bluray player, I
>> now understand the problem. bluray just isn't in 4:3.
>> DVDs will have 4:3 which is then stretched to 16:9 (anamorphic). I don't
>> believe anything of the kind happens with bluray.
> Tell us more about your TV. An older CRT tv will not be able to display a
> 480p signal, only a 480i.
I thought of that afterwards, maybe makes no difference for this experiment. I could set the bluray player output to 480i/576i. Any LCD TV does some type of de-interlacing I think, like a computer does.
Not sure what you're player will do without
> looking at the manual. My Panasonic doesn't indicate it can display a 4:3
> image at full 4:3 size on a CRT. I suspect it would windowbox the 4:3 image
> within a letterboxed 16:9 image output to the CRT.
With 480p/576p the tv signal will be 4:3. I set the TV to 'normal' for that, 'full' is the stretched 16:9 for anamorphic.
Then I set the DVD/bluray player accordingly. I set the bluray output to 4:3. It was the top of the range Sony one from earlier this year.
With 'normal' on the TV, it is identical to any 4:3 TV but with added pillarboxing. You can't get the 'normal' option with HD.
There are a few variations for the player. 'original' or 'fixed ratio' for example. I've only been using a player with HDMI this year. I've discovered the odd DVD that has been set wrong, so you can't get a proper 4:3 picture with the upconverted 1080 setting (the look is entirely determined by the DVD's own details). I've actually fixed them by reburning and using Ifoedit for changing the settings. There was a series of Chaplin DVDs that seem to be all set wrong.
But I can do nothing for bluray on 4:3 the same way. Bluray authoring is too arcane for me if it is even possible which I doubt.
I saw a lot of variations on the picture for Wings, all in 4:3, letterboxed or squished for example. But no proper 4:3 without cheating with the TV's zoom.
> On 2/11/2012 12:25 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:k6qad1$k3f$1@dont-email.me...
>>> Last night I took the bluray of Wings 4:3 silent movie, and tried to get
>>> it to show properly on my tv which was set to 4:3. This involved >>> setting
>>> the bluray player to output at 480p/576p. I could not get it to look
>>> right.
>>> I think the best was when I used the zoom on the tv as well, which can't
>>> be done with a CRT tv. I tried various settings on the bluray player, I
>>> now understand the problem. bluray just isn't in 4:3.
>>> DVDs will have 4:3 which is then stretched to 16:9 (anamorphic). I >>> don't
>>> believe anything of the kind happens with bluray.
>> Tell us more about your TV. An older CRT tv will not be able to display >> a
>> 480p signal, only a 480i.
> I thought of that afterwards, maybe makes no difference for this > experiment. I could set the bluray player output to 480i/576i. Any LCD > TV does some type of de-interlacing I think, like a computer does.
The only CRT's I know of that could display 480p were those EDTV (Enhanced Definition) sets that were on the market for like 10 minutes before and just after HD sets came out. An LCD set does indeed deinterlace 480i to 480p, but I thought we were talking about a CRT set in this discussion.
> Not sure what you're player will do without
>> looking at the manual. My Panasonic doesn't indicate it can display a >> 4:3
>> image at full 4:3 size on a CRT. I suspect it would windowbox the 4:3 >> image
>> within a letterboxed 16:9 image output to the CRT.
> With 480p/576p the tv signal will be 4:3. I set the TV to 'normal' for > that, 'full' is the stretched 16:9 for anamorphic.
> Then I set the DVD/bluray player accordingly. I set the bluray output to > 4:3. It was the top of the range Sony one from earlier this year.
> With 'normal' on the TV, it is identical to any 4:3 TV but with added > pillarboxing. You can't get the 'normal' option with HD.
Correct, I think you can't. The stretching only goes horizontal, not vertical. The player is sending a letterboxed 4:3 image to TV, so I would expect you'd either get a windowboxed 4:3 image in "normal" mode, or a stretched 16:9 image in "full" mode. "Zoom" would blow it up to 4:3, possibly cutting off critical image area.
> There are a few variations for the player. 'original' or 'fixed ratio' > for example. I've only been using a player with HDMI this year. I've > discovered the odd DVD that has been set wrong, so you can't get a proper > 4:3 picture with the upconverted 1080 setting (the look is entirely > determined by the DVD's own details). I've actually fixed them by > reburning and using Ifoedit for changing the settings. There was a series > of Chaplin DVDs that seem to be all set wrong.
> But I can do nothing for bluray on 4:3 the same way. Bluray authoring is > too arcane for me if it is even possible which I doubt.
I think the player is depending on the anamorphic flag to be on or off. Which Chaplin DVD's did you find had the problem? The MK2 / Warner ones?
> I saw a lot of variations on the picture for Wings, all in 4:3, > letterboxed or squished for example. But no proper 4:3 without cheating > with the TV's zoom.
> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:k70po3$mo5$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 2/11/2012 12:25 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>>> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:k6qad1$k3f$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> Last night I took the bluray of Wings 4:3 silent movie, and tried to get
>>>> it to show properly on my tv which was set to 4:3. This involved
>>>> setting
>>>> the bluray player to output at 480p/576p. I could not get it to look
>>>> right.
>>>> I think the best was when I used the zoom on the tv as well, which can't
>>>> be done with a CRT tv. I tried various settings on the bluray player, I
>>>> now understand the problem. bluray just isn't in 4:3.
>>>> DVDs will have 4:3 which is then stretched to 16:9 (anamorphic). I
>>>> don't
>>>> believe anything of the kind happens with bluray.
>>> Tell us more about your TV. An older CRT tv will not be able to display
>>> a
>>> 480p signal, only a 480i.
>> I thought of that afterwards, maybe makes no difference for this
>> experiment. I could set the bluray player output to 480i/576i. Any LCD
>> TV does some type of de-interlacing I think, like a computer does.
> The only CRT's I know of that could display 480p were those EDTV (Enhanced
> Definition) sets that were on the market for like 10 minutes before and just
> after HD sets came out. An LCD set does indeed deinterlace 480i to 480p,
> but I thought we were talking about a CRT set in this discussion.
>> Not sure what you're player will do without
>>> looking at the manual. My Panasonic doesn't indicate it can display a
>>> 4:3
>>> image at full 4:3 size on a CRT. I suspect it would windowbox the 4:3
>>> image
>>> within a letterboxed 16:9 image output to the CRT.
>> With 480p/576p the tv signal will be 4:3. I set the TV to 'normal' for
>> that, 'full' is the stretched 16:9 for anamorphic.
>> Then I set the DVD/bluray player accordingly. I set the bluray output to
>> 4:3. It was the top of the range Sony one from earlier this year.
>> With 'normal' on the TV, it is identical to any 4:3 TV but with added
>> pillarboxing. You can't get the 'normal' option with HD.
> Correct, I think you can't. The stretching only goes horizontal, not
> vertical. The player is sending a letterboxed 4:3 image to TV, so I would
> expect you'd either get a windowboxed 4:3 image in "normal" mode, or a
> stretched 16:9 image in "full" mode. "Zoom" would blow it up to 4:3,
> possibly cutting off critical image area.
>> There are a few variations for the player. 'original' or 'fixed ratio'
>> for example. I've only been using a player with HDMI this year. I've
>> discovered the odd DVD that has been set wrong, so you can't get a proper
>> 4:3 picture with the upconverted 1080 setting (the look is entirely
>> determined by the DVD's own details). I've actually fixed them by
>> reburning and using Ifoedit for changing the settings. There was a series
>> of Chaplin DVDs that seem to be all set wrong.
>> But I can do nothing for bluray on 4:3 the same way. Bluray authoring is
>> too arcane for me if it is even possible which I doubt.
> I think the player is depending on the anamorphic flag to be on or off.
> Which Chaplin DVD's did you find had the problem? The MK2 / Warner ones?
MK2
flags set wrong
I recently got a Chinese made copy of 1949 Little Women with the same problem.
It's only on output set to 1080p on the bluray player, no 4:3 possible except by settings on actual DVD.
>> I saw a lot of variations on the picture for Wings, all in 4:3,
>> letterboxed or squished for example. But no proper 4:3 without cheating
>> with the TV's zoom.
> On 7/11/2012 12:37 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>> I think the player is depending on the anamorphic flag to be on or off.
>> Which Chaplin DVD's did you find had the problem? The MK2 / Warner ones?
> MK2
> flags set wrong
> I recently got a Chinese made copy of 1949 Little Women with the same > problem.
> It's only on output set to 1080p on the bluray player, no 4:3 possible > except by settings on actual DVD.
The only MK2 DVD I own is the "Gold Rush", and my Panasonic blu-ray player displays it correctly as 4:3. Must be the others with the problem?
> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:k7dpvv$9su$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 7/11/2012 12:37 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>>> I think the player is depending on the anamorphic flag to be on or off.
>>> Which Chaplin DVD's did you find had the problem? The MK2 / Warner ones?
>> MK2
>> flags set wrong
>> I recently got a Chinese made copy of 1949 Little Women with the same
>> problem.
>> It's only on output set to 1080p on the bluray player, no 4:3 possible
>> except by settings on actual DVD.
> The only MK2 DVD I own is the "Gold Rush", and my Panasonic blu-ray player
> displays it correctly as 4:3. Must be the others with the problem?
> Derek
I haven't tried them all.
If I have the bluray player set to normal SD output, then I can get it to display correctly as 4:3 by setting the television to 'normal'.
It's when using the bluray player output set to 1080p that I can't get 4:3 with the television controls. It displays according to the settings on the DVD itself. Almost all DVDs display at 4:3 that should, except the Chaplin ones I mentioned.
I had the same problem as I recall with other MK2 DVDs of Truffaut movies.
I'm not sure why I didn't reply earlier.
The ifos are wrongly set to '16:9' instead of '4:3'.
These are PAL releases, maybe not released in the US.
> On 8/11/2012 1:40 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:k7dpvv$9su$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 7/11/2012 12:37 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>>>> I think the player is depending on the anamorphic flag to be on or off.
>>>> Which Chaplin DVD's did you find had the problem? The MK2 / Warner >>>> ones?
>>> MK2
>>> flags set wrong
>>> I recently got a Chinese made copy of 1949 Little Women with the same
>>> problem.
>>> It's only on output set to 1080p on the bluray player, no 4:3 possible
>>> except by settings on actual DVD.
>> The only MK2 DVD I own is the "Gold Rush", and my Panasonic blu-ray >> player
>> displays it correctly as 4:3. Must be the others with the problem?
>> Derek
> I haven't tried them all.
> If I have the bluray player set to normal SD output, then I can get it to > display correctly as 4:3 by setting the television to 'normal'.
> It's when using the bluray player output set to 1080p that I can't get 4:3 > with the television controls. It displays according to the settings on > the DVD itself. Almost all DVDs display at 4:3 that should, except the > Chaplin ones I mentioned.
> I had the same problem as I recall with other MK2 DVDs of Truffaut movies.
If you're trying to input a 1080p signal from the Blu-ray to your CRT full-screen TV, that's not going to work. Your CRT would have no idea what to do with that signal. As you describe above, if you set it to SD output, it works correctly. So why not do it that way?
> I'm not sure why I didn't reply earlier.
> The ifos are wrongly set to '16:9' instead of '4:3'.
> These are PAL releases, maybe not released in the US.
> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:k9nt4e$793$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 8/11/2012 1:40 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>>> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:k7dpvv$9su$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 7/11/2012 12:37 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>>>>> I think the player is depending on the anamorphic flag to be on or off.
>>>>> Which Chaplin DVD's did you find had the problem? The MK2 / Warner
>>>>> ones?
>>>> MK2
>>>> flags set wrong
>>>> I recently got a Chinese made copy of 1949 Little Women with the same
>>>> problem.
>>>> It's only on output set to 1080p on the bluray player, no 4:3 possible
>>>> except by settings on actual DVD.
>>> The only MK2 DVD I own is the "Gold Rush", and my Panasonic blu-ray
>>> player
>>> displays it correctly as 4:3. Must be the others with the problem?
>>> Derek
>> I haven't tried them all.
>> If I have the bluray player set to normal SD output, then I can get it to
>> display correctly as 4:3 by setting the television to 'normal'.
>> It's when using the bluray player output set to 1080p that I can't get 4:3
>> with the television controls. It displays according to the settings on
>> the DVD itself. Almost all DVDs display at 4:3 that should, except the
>> Chaplin ones I mentioned.
>> I had the same problem as I recall with other MK2 DVDs of Truffaut movies.
> If you're trying to input a 1080p signal from the Blu-ray to your CRT
> full-screen TV, that's not going to work. Your CRT would have no idea what
> to do with that signal. As you describe above, if you set it to SD output,
> it works correctly. So why not do it that way?
This conversation has gone off. I'm not the one using a CRT TV of any type. Naturally I would set the output of the player to SD (480/576).
>> I'm not sure why I didn't reply earlier.
>> The ifos are wrongly set to '16:9' instead of '4:3'.
>> These are PAL releases, maybe not released in the US.
> Bad authoring...
Probably made in the days before upscaling DVD players were common.
Don't get me started on 4:3 letterboxed DVDs made well after 2000.
> On 10/12/2012 11:29 AM, Derek Gee wrote:
>> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:k9nt4e$793$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 8/11/2012 1:40 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>>>> "hislop"<takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:k7dpvv$9su$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> On 7/11/2012 12:37 PM, Derek Gee wrote:
>>>>>> I think the player is depending on the anamorphic flag to be on or >>>>>> off.
>>>>>> Which Chaplin DVD's did you find had the problem? The MK2 / Warner
>>>>>> ones?
>>>>> MK2
>>>>> flags set wrong
>>>>> I recently got a Chinese made copy of 1949 Little Women with the same
>>>>> problem.
>>>>> It's only on output set to 1080p on the bluray player, no 4:3 possible
>>>>> except by settings on actual DVD.
>>>> The only MK2 DVD I own is the "Gold Rush", and my Panasonic blu-ray
>>>> player
>>>> displays it correctly as 4:3. Must be the others with the problem?
>>>> Derek
>>> I haven't tried them all.
>>> If I have the bluray player set to normal SD output, then I can get it >>> to
>>> display correctly as 4:3 by setting the television to 'normal'.
>>> It's when using the bluray player output set to 1080p that I can't get >>> 4:3
>>> with the television controls. It displays according to the settings on
>>> the DVD itself. Almost all DVDs display at 4:3 that should, except the
>>> Chaplin ones I mentioned.
>>> I had the same problem as I recall with other MK2 DVDs of Truffaut >>> movies.
>> If you're trying to input a 1080p signal from the Blu-ray to your CRT
>> full-screen TV, that's not going to work. Your CRT would have no idea >> what
>> to do with that signal. As you describe above, if you set it to SD >> output,
>> it works correctly. So why not do it that way?
> This conversation has gone off. I'm not the one using a CRT TV of any > type. Naturally I would set the output of the player to SD (480/576).
Sorry, I confused you with "Moo", who started off the original other post. If you're trying to output to an HD set, and the player doesn't know what the format is, it would cause a problem. For example, if the ifos are wrongly set to '16:9' instead of '4:3', that would cause the player to output the signal incorrectly, because it would think it should be expanded, when in fact, it should be pillarboxed within the frame.
I don't quite follow this thread, but my Sony Blu/DVD
player came with a bad default setting of "original
aspect ratio" which, misleadingly, causes 4.3 to
stretch to widescreen, as when playing DVDs which
have both 4.3 and widescreen on it (such as 4.3
main program and widescreen menu or trailers or the
other way around). The correct setting with my TV is
"fixed aspect ratio". I put the blame entirely
on Sony for a bad default setting with misleading
names for settings and completely ignoring picture
stretching in it's troubleshooting guide, pretending
that picture stretching was not a severe defect that
would have caused me to return the TV or player if it
couldn't be fixed.
> I don't quite follow this thread, but my Sony Blu/DVD
> player came with a bad default setting of "original
> aspect ratio" which, misleadingly, causes 4.3 to
> stretch to widescreen, as when playing DVDs which
> have both 4.3 and widescreen on it (such as 4.3
> main program and widescreen menu or trailers or the
> other way around). The correct setting with my TV is
> "fixed aspect ratio". I put the blame entirely
> on Sony for a bad default setting with misleading
> names for settings and completely ignoring picture
> stretching in it's troubleshooting guide, pretending
> that picture stretching was not a severe defect that
> would have caused me to return the TV or player if it
> couldn't be fixed.
I just keep flicking them till I get it right. I don't really understand what they mean exactly. But as I have said over and over in this thread, if you set the Sony bluray player to output at 1080p, then 4:3 DVDs depends on their IFO settings, and you can't change something mistakenly stretched to 16:9 without resetting the Video output to SD (480/576).
I have made sure the bluray settings don't mistakenly stretch 4:3 to 16:9 though. I hate stretching the picture.
