Amazon.com and the Jazz Singer
Lincoln Spector
still waiting? Their web site promises that if you order it now and choose
one-day shipping, you'll have it tomorrow. But they haven't shipped mine
(ordered last month), and they just sent me email telling me it won't go out
for a few more days because of "our inventory is constantly changing based
on information we receive directly from our suppliers."
Lincoln
Eric Stott
"Lincoln Spector" <notm...@address.com> wrote in message
news:7spTi.425$%13....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
I finally got mine (I took the free shipping but-it-will-take-longer option)
My copy has the Rogue Song ballet in place of the Gold Diggers Finale. I'm
keeping my reciept for the slight possibility there will be a new issue and
an exchange.
(AS IF!!!)
Eric stott
Lincoln Spector
Lincoln
"Lincoln Spector" <notm...@address.com> wrote in message
news:7spTi.425$%13....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
lhb...@myway.com
I got mine yesterday (Monday) from Amazon.
This set is a disappointment for something that should have been
prepared by Warners with great care and which many of us had awaited
with eager anticipation. During the sequence at the rail station while
Al Jolson is writing a letter, the picture jumps back a bit and shows
him writing something we had seen him write just a couple seconds
before. Then the music track gets BADLY out of sync such that, when
the title card "The Cantor's Sixtieth Birthday" is shown, the music
underneath is "Give My Regards to Broadway!!" This continues on, out
of sync, right up until the 'Blue Skies" track where the music
abruptly cuts off. (Compare the music track on this DVD with that on
the laserdisc at this point and you'll see and hear what I mean.)
In addition to all this is the mediocre at best and inane at worst
commentary track by Ron Hutchinson (from whom I expected much better)
and Vince Giordano. (Which is it guys - is THE SINGING FOOL 80%
talking and 20% silent? Or 60% - 40%? Or (correctly) 75% - 25%?) Many
unimportant items are repeated several times. Factual errors creep in.
Obviously, these men had not only not rehearsed their talk, but were
really unprepared. Very little of substance was imparted. I wish
Robert Gitt had done the commentary track.
In addition, the sixth reel of THE GOLD DIGGERS OF BROADWAY is NOT
present. Warners carelessly substituted an incorrect reel from another
film! (The last reel, less the last minute of picture [same as on the
laserdisc], is presented correctly.)
Didn't anyone at Warners actually watch these DVDs before their
issuance?
Also, the Vitaphone shorts have NO information whatsoever, other than
the title, shown anywhere not even the year of release. Why didn't
they at least put that, and possibly some more information about these
interesting films, in the menu or in a booklet?
I telephoned Douglas Pratt of the DVD/LASERDISC NEWSLETTER and advised
him of these problems. I do not know to whom at Warners I could write.
I feel that this set, in its current very imperfect and careless form,
should be recalled.
Lawrence
P.S. To its credit, the picture and sound is better than anything I
have seen or heard of this movie in the past. The documentary "The
Dawn of Sound" is fairly interesting if elementary. Amazing (and very
welcome) to see A. C. Lyles in a Warner documentary!
Eric Stott
<lhb...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1193197332....@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Also, the Vitaphone shorts have NO information whatsoever, other than
> the title, shown anywhere not even the year of release. Why didn't
> they at least put that, and possibly some more information about these
> interesting films, in the menu or in a booklet?
>
> I telephoned Douglas Pratt of the DVD/LASERDISC NEWSLETTER and advised
> him of these problems. I do not know to whom at Warners I could write.
> I feel that this set, in its current very imperfect and careless form,
> should be recalled.
>
> Lawrence
I've got one picky little complaint: I'm finding that the disc package and
the accompanying booklet packages fit so tightly into the slipcase that
they're very hard to remove, especially since there's a piece of paper
coming loose inside (already). The fact that I had to dig through a pile of
loose pictures to find thetrack listing for the whole set at the back of a
"Brass Tacks" booklet is annoying.
I'm finding just enough good stuff (the Vitaphone shorts alone) to be glad I
bought this. If it had just been Jazz Singer alone I wouldn't have been
interested- I find Jolson to be somewhat creepy.
Eric Stott
Bill Vermillion
This was mentioned a few weeks ago when this was discovered.
Someone pulled a wrong reel. WB decided it was better to get this
released now than delay the release by over 2 months. They had
pressed something along the lines of 200,000 copies.
The story [in this NG a while back] indicated the WB would fix
this for the users - but it was not indicated whether they would
swap the entire set or just the bad disk.
Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
djwein
> I telephoned Douglas Pratt of the DVD/LASERDISC NEWSLETTER and advised
> him of these problems. I do not know to whom at Warners I could write.
> I feel that this set, in its current very imperfect and careless form,
> should be recalled.
>
> Lawrence
>
On top of the mentioned errors in the package, my set came incorrectly
packaged from Amazon, with two copies of the movie program folder and
missing the other one, with the booklet about the DVDs.
Ah well.....
Dave Weiner
Moose Matson
the Vitaphone shorts. I know somebody that helped to restore one of
the shorts (he actually provided the lost sound discs) and it would
have been nice to see him get the credit which he deserved.
Does anyone know why these credits were omitted?
lhb...@myway.com
> In article <1193197332.570796.92...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Dear Mr. Vermillion,
As I mentioned in my post, there are TWO "bad" discs - disc 2 with the
GOLD DIGGERS error - AND - disc 1 with the sound-out-of-sync error in
THE JAZZ SINGER itself. Have you or anyone else noticed this? It is
most egregious when, behind the title card "The Cantor's Sixtieth
Birthday," the music, instead of Tchaikovsky, is "Give My Regards to
Broadway," which SHOULD have been playing in the previous scene of Al
Jolson dancing on the train platform!
I had not seen the previous post on this subject - I do not often
visit this newsgroup - but I do NOT feel that the entire set needs to
be replaced - just the two discs which, in my opinion, are unworthy of
Warner Home Video. I understand than many people buying this set will
not know about or even care about these errors but I do.
I hope WHV will speedily correct these errors and will recall the sets
in dealers' hands but not yet sold. I hope that WHV will offer
replacement discs to those who want them. I certainly would want
replacements! Do you know to whom I could write at Warner Home Video?
(If anyone at WHV reads this, would they please contact me personally
at my e-mail address?)
I would like to comment that, other than these two bad errors, the
work Warners has done with this movie is exemplary and the set itself
is very nice. I wish more information had been included about the
Vitaphone shorts; this could have been done on the disc itself or on a
printed sheet. Certainly the year of release could have been included
on the disc menu along with the title. I also wish that Ron Hutchinson
and Vince Giordano had done more preparation for their commentary
track. Frankly, I think that a commentary by Robert Gitt would have
been much more appropriate and informative.
But, as I said, overall, the restoration is superb and, when the
errors in the set are corrected (and those owners who want them are
given replacement discs), this JAZZ SINGER set will become a milestone
and the crown jewel of Warner Home Video.
Lawrence H. Bulk - lhb...@myway.com
lhb...@myway.com
In my opinion, the handling of these Vitaphone shorts was poorly done.
No information at all is supplied. This could easily be corrected with
a printed folder and I hope that WHV, now being notified of buyers'
disappointment, will issue one or at least post a link to a PDF file
of this information that could be downloaded.
Lawrence
Vitaphone
opinion,
but I couldn't agree more about the synchronization glitch in "Jazz Singer,"
the
muck-up with "Gold Diggers of Broadway" and --- especially the lack of
background info.
accompanying the disc of Vitaphone shorts.
For the uninitiated viewer, the Vitaphone short title menu should have at
least included
a year of release for each offering! Then too, a sub-menu for each
short --- offering
a paragraph of information about the performers and a hint as to why the
title was
selected for inclusion --- wouldn't have been an insurmountable task. (I'd
have done
it for nothing.) ;)
All considered, I'm far more baffled than frustrated how the usually perfect
folks at
WHV let this one slide past without (as you noted) anyone involved noticing
the
errors.
Lastly --- because I can't keep my yap shut when I probably should --- I
thought
the documentary superb save for a few things:
The overly heavy use of footage from "Singin' in the Rain," a film which
probably
did more to forever mangle the history of early talkies than anything else.
With a mile-high stack of WB Vitaphone films at hand, couldn't more suitable
scoring
elements be found for the documentary than "Rhythm of the Day" from "Dancing
Lady," a post early talkies 1933 MGM feature?
The inclusion of a dreadfully camp new recording of "Since the Movies
Learned to
Talk" (with faux scratches and pops included) ended the whole thing on a
sour
note. Hadn't that sort of thing gone out with Taco's disco version of
"Puttin' on the
Ritz" in the early 80's?
"The saddest words are 'What Might Have Been'."
Jeff
P.S. - What >is< that thing passing itself off as a trailer for "The Singing
Fool?" LOL!
<lhb...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1193197332....@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Vitaphone
Ditto!
(I wonder if the missing booklet contained background info. on the
shorts????)
"djwein" <djw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1193233382....@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Bill Vermillion
"Mister" - that's quite formal for this NG.
>As I mentioned in my post, there are TWO "bad" discs - disc 2 with the
>GOLD DIGGERS error - AND - disc 1 with the sound-out-of-sync error in
>THE JAZZ SINGER itself. Have you or anyone else noticed this? It is
>most egregious when, behind the title card "The Cantor's Sixtieth
>Birthday," the music, instead of Tchaikovsky, is "Give My Regards to
>Broadway," which SHOULD have been playing in the previous scene of Al
>Jolson dancing on the train platform!
The second disk is an error in production. But I surely doubt you
will ever see any changes to this restored edition.
After all look what happened to Citizen Kane - where people who
were supposed to be dark shadows were lightened up and you were
able to recognize who they were.
Or the over-correction on noise-reduction where the rain is
only in 1/2 of a window.
>I had not seen the previous post on this subject - I do not often
>visit this newsgroup - but I do NOT feel that the entire set needs to
>be replaced - just the two discs which, in my opinion, are unworthy of
>Warner Home Video. I understand than many people buying this set will
>not know about or even care about these errors but I do.
I can understand that. Unless you can get a lot - a whole lot - of
people to agree on the first disc you won't see changes there IMO.
I do recall that they had shipped 200,000 of the first set with the
wrong second disk.
>I hope WHV will speedily correct these errors and will recall the sets
>in dealers' hands but not yet sold. I hope that WHV will offer
>replacement discs to those who want them. I certainly would want
>replacements! Do you know to whom I could write at Warner Home Video?
>(If anyone at WHV reads this, would they please contact me personally
>at my e-mail address?)
I've seen nothing on who/where to contact yet.
>I would like to comment that, other than these two bad errors, the
>work Warners has done with this movie is exemplary and the set itself
>is very nice. I wish more information had been included about the
>Vitaphone shorts; this could have been done on the disc itself or on a
>printed sheet. Certainly the year of release could have been included
>on the disc menu along with the title. I also wish that Ron Hutchinson
>and Vince Giordano had done more preparation for their commentary
>track. Frankly, I think that a commentary by Robert Gitt would have
>been much more appropriate and informative.
That seems to be the problem with commentaries on many releases -
not just WB. Some seem to be just recordings of the people
involved while they watch the film for the first time in years.
Those are almost totally worthless. Good commentary takes time and
work, and so often both seem to be given short shrift.
>But, as I said, overall, the restoration is superb and, when the
>errors in the set are corrected (and those owners who want them are
>given replacement discs), this JAZZ SINGER set will become a milestone
>and the crown jewel of Warner Home Video.
>Lawrence H. Bulk - lhb...@myway.com
I became a 'jolie' fan in my pre-teen years when The Jolson Story
came out. I wound up with four 78RPM albums of his work before
the 45 and 33 records came out. I started collecting records when
I was about 8 or 9 - back when most students in high-school didn't
have record players.
ricrat
> In article <1193236657.083849.21...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> I became a 'jolie' fan in my pre-teen years when The Jolson Story
> came out. I wound up with four 78RPM albums of his work before
> the 45 and 33 records came out. I started collecting records when
> I was about 8 or 9 - back when most students in high-school didn't
> have record players.
>
> Bill
>
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
I got this joke in the mail today...Where's THE TRAILER, JOLSON SHORTS
and COMMENTARY (to name a few omissions)????????
I think WB should give anyone who buys this a complete copy at no cost
to
the customer. I buy very few retail sets (and this turns me off the
the 'net, etc!
What's is there is pretty entertaining but not worth $40.00
Eric Stott
"ricrat" <ric...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1193255879.2...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I got this joke in the mail today...Where's THE TRAILER, JOLSON SHORTS
> and COMMENTARY (to name a few omissions)????????
The Jolson trailers are on the second page of the Special Features menu,
jazz singer trailer is first on the list
The shorts are on the first and second pages of the Special Features menu,
and you can select the commentary there.
you must have missed them
eric stott
.
Matt Barry
version TCM showed, especially the sound being out of synch at the mentioned
points. I haven't seen the DVD, so I can't comment on any of the special
features.
It doesn't seem that these mistakes should really be happening at this
point, certainly not by the time the project makes it to disc and gets
stocked for purchase.
Based on the print that TCM showed, did it seem to anyone else that some of
the shots went on a little long. Some very obviously repeated. I can
understand this might have been necessary in 1927 to help with
synchronization issues, but some of these shots, especially Warner Oland
glaring at Jolson after he comes home to hear him singing "Blue Skies",
seemed to go on for an absurdly long amount of time (isn't this the same
scene that used to consist of 8 seconds of silence, and now is 22 seconds?)
--
Matt Barry
View my films at: www.youtube.com/comedyfilm
http://mbarry84.tripod.com
http://filmreel.blogspot.com
<lhb...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1193197332....@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Matt Barry
set to find out the extent of the errors.
Although I certainly agree that we should be grateful to Warners for
releasing this material, and I certainly support any efforts to make these
films available, I have to admit it's very disheartening to hear errors like
this slip through again and again on Warners releases (someone already
mentioned the infamous "Citizen Kane" disc).
I don't think it's nitpicking to ask for synchronized sound, especially (and
ironically) on a film whose chief claim to fame is as the first talking
film.
--
Matt Barry
View my films at: www.youtube.com/comedyfilm
http://mbarry84.tripod.com
http://filmreel.blogspot.com
"Vitaphone" <vita...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:H5KTi.29$Aj...@newsfe12.lga...
ricrat
I found them and they are good.
Lincoln Spector
"Lincoln Spector" <notm...@address.com> wrote in message
news:7spTi.425$%13....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
Lincoln
G. M. Watson
> From: "Vitaphone" <vita...@optonline.net>
> Organization: Optimum Online
> Newsgroups: alt.movies.silent
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:07:58 -0400
> Subject: Re: Amazon.com and the Jazz Singer
>
> How a viewer interprets elements such as a commentary is a matter of
> opinion,
> but I couldn't agree more about the synchronization glitch in "Jazz Singer,"
> the
> muck-up with "Gold Diggers of Broadway" and --- especially the lack of
> background info.
> accompanying the disc of Vitaphone shorts.
>
> For the uninitiated viewer, the Vitaphone short title menu should have at
> least included
> a year of release for each offering! Then too, a sub-menu for each
> short --- offering
> a paragraph of information about the performers and a hint as to why the
> title was
> selected for inclusion --- wouldn't have been an insurmountable task. (I'd
> have done
> it for nothing.) ;)
>
I was planning on buying this set right away until I read these posts. I
could care less about "The Jazz Singer" but I was really looking forward to
owning disc #3, the Vitaphone shorts. I still treasure my copy of "Swing,
Swing, Swing", the wonderful Laserdisc collection of Vitaphone 30s & 40s big
band & jazz shorts MGM released in 1994 (aka "Cavalcade of Vitaphone Shorts,
Volume 1"-- anyone know if this material has been released on DVD, btw?). I
guess I'll hold off on the Jazz Singer box for a while, pending a possible
corrected rerelease (dream on...).
However, this does raise a question: Does anyone know of a useful reference
source (on-line or in book form) on the Vitaphone shorts? Something that
details date of release and content? Something that would compensate, even
in part, for the lack of information in the Warners release?
Thanx...
GMW
djwein
> However, this does raise a question: Does anyone know of a useful reference
> source (on-line or in book form) on the Vitaphone shorts? Something that
> details date of release and content? Something that would compensate, even
> in part, for the lack of information in the Warners release?
> Thanx...
> GMW-
Yes, there is a great 2003 book titled VITAPHONE FILMS by Roy Liebman
from McFarland Press that covers all of them in copious detail. Also
THE FIRST HOLLYWOOD SOUND SHORTS 1926-31 by Edwin Bradley, also from
McFarland, 2005 - that covers all studio shorts from the period, not
just the Vitaphones.
Dave Weiner
Dennman6
> On Oct 23, 12:38 pm, "Lincoln Spector" <notmyr...@address.com> wrote:
> This set is a disappointment.....
> In addition, the sixth reel of THE GOLD DIGGERS OF BROADWAY is NOT
> present. Warners carelessly substituted an incorrect reel from another
> film!
I WONDERED about that! Apparently a ballet from "The Rogue Song" was
used, according to other posters-I kept thinking, "where the heck is
Lawrence Tibbett?" Very nice quality Technicolor as compared to that
'bear cave' sequence with Mr. Laurel & Mr. Hardy we keep seeing(or
not, since the Boys are inside the cave throughout the clip!). But I
DID sort of think a ballet was a weird finale for "Gold Diggers" The
ballet was OK for what it was, but a tad dull. Nice touch at the end
though, when the curtains close on the dancers & reopens to show a
circle of swans in their place.
> Also, the Vitaphone shorts have NO information whatsoever, other than
> the title, shown anywhere not even the year of release.
This was disappointing indeed, but some of the dates were known to me
previously because of the lore I've read thru the years about these
Vitaphone shorts. I knew "Lambchops" was from 1929, & Rose Marie's
short came out with "The Singing Fool", so that would be 1929 also,
right? I haven't seen all the shorts yet, but went immediately to
"Baby Rose Marie"-great little trouper she was. I love the comment she
makes in the documentary about seeing the short fifty years later, "I
was surprised how good I was!"
"When East Meets West"-Ray Mayer & Edith Evans-never saw them before,
or came across their Victor records, but Ray Mayer is GREAT! What a
hoot this guy was! Not a great voice, even for vaudeville, but what a
neat personality & a GREAT pianist. And put down that chewing gum!
"Night Court"-did a double take when I realized William Demerest was
one of the attorneys. Not quite the craggy ol' Bill of the Preston
Sturges movies, or Uncle Charley in the 1960s.
> P.S. To its credit, the picture and sound is better than anything I
> have seen or heard of this movie in the past. The documentary "The
> Dawn of Sound" is fairly interesting if elementary. Amazing (and very
> welcome) to see A. C. Lyles in a Warner documentary!
Agreed on the generally fine picture quality & good sound. In the late
1990s I would occasionally pick up a Laserdisc set or two or five,
among them the Al Jolson set & the MGM "Cavalcade of Shorts". So I
will be able to compare the "Jazz Singer" in both formats. I never did
get in on the "Dawn of Sound" Laserdisc sets-too rich for my blood,
which was always the drawback for me in them dear old Laser-days.
Pity, they're not on DVD....yet:)
Dennis Forkel