Two-color silent footage found. Please ID. Images here
Darren
Here are some images of most of the scenes
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_a.JPG
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_b.JPG
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_c.JPG
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_d.JPG
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_e.JPG
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_f.JPG
Anyone have a clue to the title?
In another thread, another film print was identified as being previous to
1922 because of the more rounded sprocket holes. This two-color has the
same.
This is Technicolor(?).
As seen in http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_f.JPG there are
blue/green markings along the edge. One one peice of footage it is numbered
progressively every foot. The other just has the edge markings.
Darren
christoph...@und.nodak.edu
Darren wrote:
> A small ammount of full frame two-color footage made its way from the UK.
>
> Here are some images of most of the scenes
> http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_a.JPG
> http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_b.JPG
> http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_c.JPG
> http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_d.JPG
> http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_e.JPG
> http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_f.JPG
>
> Anyone have a clue to the title?
>
I don't recognize the particular film off-hand, but it immediately
looks to me like an excerpt from a 1928-29 Vitaphone musical. The
backstage scene and dance number are what make this more likely than it
being an earlier title or a silent film. Also, a 1922 Technicolor print
would be thicker, made up of two pieces glued together, whereas by the
late 20s they were using dye-transfer for two-color. Too bad it's not a
whole reel or complete feature. The Vitaphone Project might be able to
help.
--Christopher Jacobs
http://www.und.nodak.edu/instruct/cjacobs/Website/MusicToMyEars-home.htm
http://www.hpr1.com/movies
Darren
> looks to me like an excerpt from a 1928-29 Vitaphone musical. The
> backstage scene and dance number are what make this more likely than it
> being an earlier title or a silent film. Also, a 1922 Technicolor print
> would be thicker, made up of two pieces glued together, whereas by the
> late 20s they were using dye-transfer for two-color. Too bad it's not a
> whole reel or complete feature. The Vitaphone Project might be able to
> help.
Thanks for the heads up.
Yea, now that you point that out the whole thing looks Broadway/stagedoor.
Too bad it is just two fragments.
Darren
Scotsguy
Broadway'(WB-1929). That would make sense as it's full frame and IB.
Vitaphone sountrack survives for the whole film.
Scotsguy
first case.
Part of these frames are from 'On With The Show' - WB 1929 - (you can see
Louise Fazenda at right in the dressing room). This is the only color
footage ever found from this film (it survived in a grotty b/w 50s tv dupe)
and as it is the first all sound all color talkie, it is a real find.
The other frame are indeed Winnie Lightner and Albert Gran from 'Gold
Diggers of Broadway' (WB 1929). It appears to be part of the party sequence
where Lightner is chatting up a worn out Gran. As nothing survived from this
film save the last 14 mins or so this is another find!
I hope whoever has these realises their importance and gets then to the BFI
as soon as possible.
Scotsguy
With the Show' survives in b/w. I'd have to look at a video copy to work out
which part of the film this belongs to.
The 'Gold Diggers' clip is more complex as nothing survives but the
soundtrack, but it there are any other frames with set details, this should
narrow it down to somewhere around 35-55 mins into the film.
Early Film
> In another thread, another film print was identified as being previous to
> 1922 because of the more rounded sprocket holes. This two-color has the
> same.
Technicolor was an exception and they stayed with the rounded (Bell &
Howell) perforation until the 1950s.
> This is Technicolor(?).
Probably.
It looks like it.
Look at a printed-in negative splice at a scene change. Bi-Pack Color
(Multicolor, Cinecolor, early TrueColor, Sennett Color etc.) show a
white printed-in splice only at the cut. Two color Technicolor shows a
either a red or cyan printed-in splice at the top of the last frame
before the cut and the opposite color on the cut itself.
> As seen in http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/twocolor_f.JPG there are
> blue/green markings along the edge. One one peice of footage it is numbered
> progressively every foot. The other just has the edge markings.
That shot is clearly a Vitaphone repair number. There was one each
foot. Zero was the needledown marker. If the film broke, you could
not cut the corresponding frames out of the phonograph record, so you
had to insert black frames in the picture to keep the sound and picture
in sync.
Earl.
Darren
BFI
> as soon as possible.
Thanks for identifying both films!!!! I guess since they were early color
it helped to narrowed it down to a small number of titles. :)
Other films fragments were with this. Both silent era and B&W, however. A
"social drama" type scene and a comedy silent.
The prints are here in the USA now.
Will contact Vitaphone Project by Monday.
Both films have no decomp but are sadly no more than 50 ft long each. :(
Darren
Darren
> (Multicolor, Cinecolor, early TrueColor, Sennett Color etc.) show a
> white printed-in splice only at the cut. Two color Technicolor shows a
> either a red or cyan printed-in splice at the top of the last frame
> before the cut and the opposite color on the cut itself.
>
Yep, it is Tech.
Real nice color, too. :)
Darren Nemeth
dnemet...@giant-squid-audio-lab.com
Owner of "Giant Squid Audio Lab" - Specialists in durable, high fidelity
microphones
for discriminating analog and digital recording enthusiasts.
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com
Scotsguy
watched it recently, but the 'Gold Diggers' was more difficult as there
isn't much to go on. From memory, in the film, Winnie Lightner stands on a
huge table at the party and sings a comedy song to a seated and drunk Albert
Gran (called 'Keeping the Wolf from the Door'), afterwards he is exhausted
and in need of water and quiet. I suspect this is where the clip is from. It
would be the end of a reel as the next reel opens with Nick Lucas in another
room singing 'Tip Toe Thru the Tulips' to the party guests.
I wonder if there was more where this came from?
The last reel of 'Gold Diggers' was literally dumped with the BFI in London
around 1987. This was another nitrate mute reel and was missing the last
minute or so (sadly). The other reel which turned up was the preceeding one
with the big 'Tulips' production number, which was found in Australia.
What you have in your hands are unique and I'd rate this an important find.
An important part of Warner Bros history as much as American 20s pop
culture. More so than that ghastly static ballet reel from MGM's 'Rogue
Song'.
The UK owner should have indentified the film before this.
All credit to you for asking on here. The film is now back in the country it
was printed! We all now can see how good the Technicolor was.
It would be lovely if you could do some high res scans before the film is
copied.
Darren
Sadly, this is all that there is.
Came with a toy projector and other rolls of film.
Don't get your hopes up. The Gold Digger footage is about 50 ft long.
> The UK owner should have indentified the film before this.
The UK owner didn't have a clue which is why it is in the USA now. ;)
> All credit to you for asking on here. The film is now back in the country
it
> was printed! We all now can see how good the Technicolor was.
Candy colored! Eye candy all the way.
> It would be lovely if you could do some high res scans before the film is
> copied.
Sadly, I have no scanner. Just my digital camera that saves photos to a 3.5
inch floppy. :(
I can take some higher res pix but it takes up the space of the whole disc
with each shot. Will do, however.
People who had their emails at the bottom of the Vitaphone Project website
have been emailed.
Darren
Here is the extent of the footage. Size of the rolls compaired to a CD-R
spindel. Not much there.
Heard back from Vitaphone Project tonight and I will be put in contact with
UCLA soon.
In one way or another, the clips will be properly cared for soon. :)
Darren
Scotsguy
doesn't look damaged and would have compromised the film when originally
shown with the vitaphone. I can't imagine the film renters would have been
happy losing that much film from a returned print. It is a good example of
just how good early Technicolor can be. Often these early films are shown in
prints (or copied to video) which distort the original color, usually
falsifying it.
Early Film
> Very unusual for someone to have snipped out a section like this as it
> doesn't look damaged and would have compromised the film when originally
> shown with the vitaphone. I can't imagine the film renters would have been
> happy losing that much film from a returned print.
Once the films had completed their runs and were of no value, they were
cut up into clips and sold with viewers. Most viewers only showed
single frames, which is why a length of film is so rare.
Example:
Darren
non-Vitaphone rolls came with a toy projector. :)
Among other means of disposal, when a print outlived its usefullness one
fate was being cut up and sold in lengths for toy projector use. One of the
several dooms that awaited most silent release prints after their run was
over.
One company that sold these lengths in the USA was the Paramount
Manufacturing Co. of Boston. I have a late 1920s-early 1930s
phamphlet/catalog of theirs showing that one can get real movie film that
was shown in theaters at any length desired. "We get this film after big
theatres used it."
Considering that kids played around with this nitrate 'til they got bored,
these two-color Tech films are in really good shape.
BTW, as stated elsewhere Vitaphone prints were numbered every foot for
syncronization pourposes.
The ON WITH THE SHOW clip is from 649 to 683 = 34 feet plus a few frames
equaling about 23 seconds of footage if projected at 24fps.
Whatever reel it came from this clip starts at about 649 feet into it.
Gold Diggers is not numbered at all but is about the same length.
Darren
(BTW, both are in good shape and possibly will be on the way to an archive
in the not too distant future. I am not going to pull a Detlaff so if
anyone out there is planning to rob my house for it, don't waste your time.)
"Scotsguy" <sa...@demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43367...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
Darren
> cut up into clips and sold with viewers. Most viewers only showed
> single frames, which is why a length of film is so rare.
>
> Example:
>
> http://www.cinephiles.org/Kinoscope.html
There were also slide projectors and slide mounts for slots found in most
35mm toy projectors.
Here is a 35mm toy projector slide mount.
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/slide_a.JPG
It fits in the slot behind the lens found on the majority of early toy 35mm
hand cranks that I seen to date.
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/slide_b.JPG
A couple of years ago a small pile of film frames came with one projector
that I bought. About half were or were on their way to turning to goo.
Some were stuck together. All kinds of tintings you can imagine.
One of interest contained an Orient or Egyptian costumed scene tinted
bluish/purple I'd say was from the late 1910s-early 1920s. Sadly, decomp
had set in before I got it and within a couple of days it was gone.
By the time I contacted an archive the same week the other half were gone.
The frames that were still intact were FedEx'ed to an archive. Who knows
how many of those made it there.
Darren