Lost Films
Eric Stott
the famous ones?
FALL OF A NATION- It probably stinks but It would be a reason to trot
out the excellent Victor Herbert score.
SORRELL AND SON. With H.B. Warner, Nils Asther, Anna Q. Nilsson, Alice
Joyce and Carmel Myers. What a cast! - and a good story too!
Eric Stott
Vitaphone
1929/1930 presumed-lost titles into the wishing well...
"Gold Diggers of Broadway" (WB)
"Honky Tonk" (WB)- Sophie Tucker
"My Man" (WB)-Fannie Brice
"Is Everybody Happy?" (WB)-Ted Lewis
"Haunted House" (WB)-Chester Conklin
"Fox Movietone Follies" -All Star
"Kismet" (WB)-Otis Skinner
"Paris" (WB)-Bordoni & Buchanan
"Queen of the Nightclubs" (WB)-Texas Guinan
"Hard to Get" (WB)-Dorothy Mackaill
"The Hottentot" (WB)-E.Everett Horton
"Drag" (WB)-Barthelmess
"Careers" (WB)-Billie Dove
"Fast Life" (WB)-Loretta Young
"Scarlet Seas" (WB)-Barthelmess
"Skin Deep" (WB)-Monte Blue
(sigh)
------
"I don't feel so damned good myself.."
Marjorie White, NEW MOVIETONE FOLLIES OF 1930 (Fox)
Eric Stott
Vitaphone wrote:
> I'll leave silent film choices to the experts here, but willingly toss these
> 1929/1930 presumed-lost titles into the wishing well...
(CUT)
"Kismet" (WB)-Otis Skinner
(CUT)
I've heard that the 1930 Kismet is still out there. Certainly the 1920 is with
us.
Eric Stott
>
Steven Rowe
i would love to see "Convention City"
steven rowe
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Vitaphone
>
>
>steven rowe
Indeed! Ditto!
As Jack Warner so tactfully said about one of the stars of this film, Joan
Blondell, "Put a bra on that broad's bulbs!"
Wonder if "Convention City" is the only post-1930 Warners/Vitaphone picture
that can be considered lost? (In this case, intentionally, of course.)
He of the Ned Sparks Personality School,
Jeff
JMozart17561791
to see any of her several lost Vitagraph's,especially "Whom The Gods
Destroy"(1916) "Within The Law"(1917),and "Cousin Kate"(1921)
Some other lost films on my most wanted list are:
The Queen of Sheba(1921)-Betty Blythe
Any of the Mae Murray/Robert Z. Leonard vehicles.
My Official Wife(1914)-Clara Kimball Young
Any of the lost Corinne Griffith vehicles.
Any of the Richard Barthelmess/Dorothy Gish comedies.
War Brides(1916)-Nazimova
And I'll throw in my usual plug for the lost Theda Baras.
Well this is a good starting point.I'm sure I'll think of loads more later.
James
ubject: Lost Films
>From: Eric Stott est...@localnet.com
>Date: 3/16/2003 3:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3E74DC19...@localnet.com>
El Dorado
"Eric Stott" <est...@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:3E74DC19...@localnet.com...
> What lost films would you like found? Any personal choices aside from
> the famous ones?
>
>
I'm sure that any of us could come up with a list of lost silent films.
What I'd like to see is the release of some of the EXTANT films the
studios/owners/whoever still won't let us see.
Two are:
AN EXCHANGE OF WIVES (1925) -- Eleanor Boardman, Lew Cody, Renee Adoree,
Creighton Hale. A frothy comedy about an intended wife-swapping that
doesn't quite come off. Supposedly, this one is gathering dust in the
Turner vaults.
HER BIG NIGHT (1926) -- Delightful Laura LaPlante comedy in which the star
plays dual roles -- a shopgirl, and the movie star she closely resembles.
UCLA has a good print, so WHY hasn't someone restored it and brought it to
market?
Cheers,
Dan N.
Patrick McCart
surprised it's not being searched for as much as stuff like London After
Midnight.
I'd also like to see the complete Battle Of The Century.
"Eric Stott" <est...@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:3E74DC19...@localnet.com...
Dziadsj
>out the excellent Victor Herbert score.
I read the novel by Thomas Dixon...it was just so-so. Still, I wouldn't mind
seeing this myself. Didn't someone on this group once state that the Victor
Herbert score was available on CD? (I might be mistaken and am too lazy to do a
google search).
Topping my personal list might be Der Januskopf and A Blind Bargain.
Of course, that could change on any given day. Being a science fiction fan
just about *any* lost film on the following list would interest me:
http://sinistercinema.com/cgi-bin/bb/YaBB.pl?board=silscifi;action=display
;num=1038797199
Steve
Eric Stott
Dziadsj wrote:
> >FALL OF A NATION- It probably stinks but It would be a reason to trot
> >out the excellent Victor Herbert score.
>
> I read the novel by Thomas Dixon...it was just so-so. Still, I wouldn't mind
> seeing this myself. Didn't someone on this group once state that the Victor
> Herbert score was available on CD? (I might be mistaken and am too lazy to do a
> google search).
There is an old Library of Congress CD with exerpts out- and there's a cut called
KARMA on another disc. What I've heard suggests that it's an above average score.
Eric Stott
Dr. Giraud
news:3E74DC19...@localnet.com...
> What lost films would you like found? Any personal choices aside from
> the famous ones? >>
KISS ME AGAIN (1925) Lubitsch, Marie Prevost, Clara Bow . . . wow.
Plus HOLLYWOOD, MEN (Pola Negri), THE DRAG NET or CASE OF LENA SMITH
(Sternberg) . . .
Shawn Stone
Stephen Cooke
Paramount's silent 1927 version of War of the Worlds.
swac
(Well, they were promoting it in that year's film catelogue...)
Dr. Giraud
Paramount's silent 1927 version of War of the Worlds.
swac
(Well, they were promoting it in that year's film catelogue...) >>
Was there a proposed cast list?
Shawn Stone
greta de groat
mentioned, i'll vote again for
Panthea (1917)
Lola (1914)
The Eternal City (1915)
Bella Donna (1915)
La Tosca (1917)
Married Flirts (1924)
Magda (1917)
The Common Law (1916)
Hollywood (1923)
Der Januskopf (1920)
Sherlock Holmes (1916)
though i'd like to see the recovery of just about any film. I have to admit,
though, there are a few i'm not mouring for too much.
greta
greta de groat
showable condition:
The Moment Before (1916) Famous Players, Robert Vignola, dir. With Pauline
Frederick. Au unpreserved 1200 meter nitrate copy with English flash titles
is held by the Cineteca Nazionale in Rome. It lacks the opening scenes. This
is Pauline Frederick's earliest extant film. At present, it can't even be
viewed at the archive.
Slaves of Pride (1920) Vitagraph, George Terwilliger, dir. With Alice Joyce,
Percy Marmont. The Archives du Film, Bois d'Arcy, France, 35mm negative
with English intertitles and a length of 1169 meters. They described it as
"not yet editing" (they wrote in English) and it wasn't clear to me from their
message whether it was preserved, and they said it was owned by a lab. Not
sure what that meant. Obviously it's not showable in this condition, even if
it has been preserved. Anyway, it's one of 18 surviving Vitagraph features
and the only surviving Alice Joyce feature prior to 1923 when she began
freelancing.
So those are on my possible but unlikely wish list.
greta
Vitaphone
>plays dual roles
I must say, seeing LaPlante in "The Love Trap" was something of a revelation,
for I hadn't realized what a skilled comedienne she was, and almost in a modern
undated sense at that... especially when compared to those wildly gesticulating
and mugging around her in a 1910 Vitagraph fashion.
Very, very interesting actress!
Jasoncheaser
The Private Life of Helen of Troy!
(she was an A.D. moma in B.C. times!)
James Russell
>What lost films would you like found? Any personal choices aside from
>the famous ones?
All of them.
Oh all right, then, here's some particular ones:
"London After Midnight" (because I've seen the reconstruction and would now
like to see the original so I can make more sense of the reconstruction, if
you know what I mean)
all of Lon Chaney's other lost films
"The Patriot"
"The Terror"
"Convention City"
the uncut "Greed", "Napoleon" and "La Roue"
"Four Devils"
the 1914 "Golem" and "The Golem and the Dancer"
I also endorse the comment someone else made about the release of extant
films that no one will let out into the world.
James R.
--
Hot Buttered Death http://hotbuttereddeath.blogspot.com/
Celluloid Dreams: Wednesday, 8pm AEST, 2SER 107.3 FM http://www.2ser.com/
Eric Stott
greta de groat wrote:though i'd like to see the recovery of just about any film. I
have to admit,
> though, there are a few i'm not mouring for too much.
>
> greta
OK then-
Folks, are there any lost films out there that you wish would STAY LOST?
Eric Stott
James Russell
>OK then-
>
>Folks, are there any lost films out there that you wish would STAY LOST?
Um... but how would we know that we wish they would stay lost unless they
were found first so that we could see them and decide we wished they'd never
been found?
James R., putting the original print of Dreyer's "Joan" back in that
Norwegian mental institution cupboard
Opencity
exist.
I wouldn't mind seeing "Two Arabian Knights," which may or may not be lost
forever (but is certain MIA today).
Greta de Groat
Eric Stott wrote:
While i don't want anything to stay lost, i'm not getting too worked up about the loss
of, say, The Inner Chamber (1921), Let Not Man Put Asunder (1924) and The Heart of Blue
Ridge (1915). And, to be frank about my politics, i'm grateful to not have to sit
throught The Battle Cry of Peace (1914) or Womanhood, the Glory of a Nation (1917).
I notice that all of the above but one are Vitagraph features. Perhaps there is a good
reason so many are lost. In fact, how many folks have seen the remaining Vitagraph
features and what is their overall quality level? I love A Florida Enchantment,
thought Captain Blood was ho-hum, and that's all i've seen.
greta
AAbrams0264
the famous ones? >>
Theda Bara's version of CLEOPATRA
Lubitsch's THE PATRIOT
THE ROGUE SONG
The "Complete" GREED
MY MAN (a real "holy grail" for me)
and many, many others
JMozart17561791
change.Yesterdays turkeys are today's generation of silent film lovers'
treasures,but without taking in all aspects of
acting,directing,cinematography,etc. How can one really get an idea as to what
these films are like?Descriptions on a page don't always do justice.
James
Subject: Re: Lost Films
>From: jg...@yahoo.com (James Russell)
>Date: 3/17/2003 7:10 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3e75bab...@news.ans.com.au>
JMozart17561791
Alice Adams(1923)Associated Exhibitors,6 reels,Directed by Rowland V.
Lee.Starring Florence Vidor.According to FIAF ,BFI has this,though I have no
idea what the preservation status of this film is,or if it's even in viewing
condition.
James
>Subject: Re: Lost Films
>From: greta de groat gdeg...@stanford.edu
>Date: 3/16/2003 11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3E755409...@stanford.edu>
Rodney Sauer
>>FALL OF A NATION- It probably stinks but It would be a reason to trot
>>out the excellent Victor Herbert score.
>
>
> I read the novel by Thomas Dixon...it was just so-so. Still, I wouldn't mind
> seeing this myself. Didn't someone on this group once state that the Victor
> Herbert score was available on CD? (I might be mistaken and am too lazy to do a
> google search).
It came out a few years back from the Library of Congress. It's not a
complete score, more like highlights from the score. On the same disk
are some cues that Jerome Kern wrote for a silent serial. Although FALL
OF A NATION may be lost, there's no reason the Herbert score couldn't be
adapted to another silent film needing a good score. There's some good
material in it, and I'd love to get my hands on it to read the whole
thing some day. Herbert was a very fine composer.
Rodney Sauer
rod...@mont-alto.com
The Mont Alto Ragtime and Tango Orchestra
and The Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra
http://www.mont-alto.com/
Kevin Rayburn
perspective" than usual; not just Hollywood. These aren't all the lost
films that interest me, but are among the ones that seem to be the
most significant. I didn't list the original versions of "Greed" or
"The Magnificent Ambersons," since these are well known, or any of the
lost William S. Harts, as silent westerns aren't my cup of tea. -kev
1896
Place de l'Opera (France/Georges Melies/Discovery of stop motion.)
1898
La Caverne maudite / The Cave of the Demons (France/Georges
Melies/Early use of double exposure)
The Corsican Brothers (UK/George Albert Smith; G.A.S. Films/Early use
of double exposure)
1903
Gulliver en el pais de los gigantes / Gulliver in the Land of the
Giants (Spain/Segundo de Chomon/Elaborate trick film fantasy.)
Henrettelsen / The Execution (Denmark/Peter Elfelt/First Danish
fiction film)
1904
Un Roman d'amour / Annie's Love Story (France/Lucien Nonguet,
Ferdinand Zecca; Pathe/Early hit melodrama.)
1906
The Story of the Kelly Gang (Australia/Charles Tait; John and Nevin
Tait/World's first dramatic feature.)
1908
L'Arlesienne (France/Albert Capellani; SCAGL; Pathe/Early prestige
picture; a big hit)
La civilisation a travers les ages / Humanity Through the Ages
(France/Georges Melies/Pessimistic view of humanity predicting WWI.)
1910
Frankenstein (US/J. Searle Dawley; Edison/Perpetually held hostage)
1911
Morfinisten / The Morphine Takers (Denmark/Louis von Kohl/Life of a
junkie)
1912
In the Year 2000 (US/Alice Guy Blache; Solax/Feminist sci-fi film)
Das Mirakel / The Miracle (Germany/Austria/Max
Reinhardt/Expressionistic fantasy)
Satana / Satan, or, the Drama of Humanity (Italy/Luigi Maggi;
Ambrosio/Epic multi-story drama with grand theme; precursor of
"Intolerance.")
Saved From the Titanic (US/Etienne Arnaud; Eclair/S: Dorothy
Gibson/Titanic reeanactment, starring survivor.)
1913
The Adventures of Kathlyn (US/Francis J. Grandon; Selig Polyscope/S:
Kathlyn Williams/27-reel serial; first "true" serial with cliffhanger
endings)
The Battle of Gettysburg (US/Thomas H. Ince, Charles Giblyn; New York
Motion Picture Corp. (Ince); Mutual)
De Dodes o / Isle of the Dead (Denmark/Vilhelm Glückstadt/Poetic,
expressionistic Gothic horror tale.)
Raja Harishchandra / King Harishchandra (India/Dhundiraj Govind
Phalke/First indiginously made Indian feature.)
Les Trois Mousquetaires / The Three Musketeers (France/Henri Pouctal;
Film d'Art/Twelve-reel hit Dumas adaptation.)
1914
Damaged Goods (US/Richard Bennett, Tom Ricketts; American Film
Manufacturing; Mutual/S: Richard Bennett/VD-danger melodrama.)
The Escape (US/D.W. Griffith; The Griffith Co.; Majestic)
Der Pfarrer von Kirchfeld / The Pastor of Kirchfeld (Austria/Jacob
Fleck, Luise Fleck/Racy comedy about horny minister.)
Sperduti nel buio / Lost in the Dark (Italy/Nino Martoglio/Neorealism
precursor; considered a masterpiece in its day.)
Spiritisten / The Ghosts (Denmark/Holger-Madsen/Early expressionism)
A Study in Scarlet (UK/George Pearson; Samuelson Film/Long-sought
Sherlock Holmes film.)
1915
The Battle Cry of Peace (US/J. Stuart Blackton/Famous pro-war epic.)
Carmen (US/Raoul Walsh; Fox/S: Theda Bara)
Der Golem / The Golem (Germany/Henrik Galeen/First version)
His Lordship's Dilemma (US/William Haddock; Gaumont; Mutual/S: W.C.
Fields; his film debut)
Inspiration (US/George Foster Platt; Thanhouser; Mutual/S: Audrey
Munson/First star nudity.)
Life Without Soul (US/Joseph W. Smiley/Frankenstein adaptation.)
Portret Doryana Greya / The Picture of Dorian Grey (Russia/Vsevolod
Meyerhold, Mikhail Doronin/Possibly a masterpiece; stylistic precursor
of The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.)
Sin (US/Herbert Brenon; Fox/S: Theda Bara)
Teresa Raquin (Italy/Nino Martoglio/Zola tragedy; early Italian story
realism; remade in 1928 in France; also lost)
1916
A Daughter of the Gods (US/Herbert Brenon; Fox/S: Annette
Kellerman/Mythical epic)
Dodskyssen / Kiss of Death (Sweden/Victor Sjostrom; Svenska Bio/S:
Victor Sjostrom, Mathias Taube/Experimental psychological drama;
conflicting reports on its existence)
Homunculus (Germany/Otto Rippert; Deutsche Bioscop/Six-part serial;
huge WWI German hit; one episode survives.)
Humanidad (Spain/Domènec Ceret, Alfred Fontanals/Realistic Spanish
drama)
La Marcia nuziale / The Wedding March (Italy/Carmine Gallone; Cines/S:
Lyda Borelli/Big Italian hit; story remade by Erich von Stroheim.)
Perfido incanto / Perfidious Moment (Italy/Anton Giulio Bragaglia/S:
Lyda Borelli/Futurist film; Italian cinema milestone.)
Il Re, le Torri e gli Alfieri / The King, the Towers, the Flagmen
(Italy/Lucio d'Ambra, Ivo Illuminati/Pre-Lubitsch sophisticated
comedy)
Romeo and Juliet (US/J. Gordon Edwards; Fox/S: Theda Bara)
She (UK/Will Barker, Horace Lisle Lucoque/S: Alice Delysia/H. Rider
Haggard adventure fantasy.)
Sherlock Holmes (US/Arthur Berthelet; Essanay/S: William Gillette)
Under Two Flags (US/J. Gordon Edwards; Fox/S: Theda Bara/Bara's
favorite role)
War Brides (US/Herbert Brenon/S: Alla Nazimova, Richard
Barthelmess/Odd-sounding anti-war allegory with apparent feminist
interest)
1917
El Apostol / The Apostle (Argentina/Quirino Cristiani/Allegedly the
first animated feature)
Camille (US/J. Gordon Edwards; Fox/S: Theda Bara/Fragment exists)
Cleopatra (US/J. Gordon Edwards; Fox/S: Theda Bara)
Es werde licht! / Let There Be Light (Germany/Richard
Oswald/Multi-part sex ed movie)
Lanka Dahan / The Burning of Lanka (India/Dhundiraj Govind
Phalke/First major hit of the Indian cinema.)
Silnyi chelovek / The Strong Man (Russia/Vsevolod
Meyerhold/Experimental drama)
La storia dei tredici / The Story of the Tredici (Italy/Carmine
Gallone; Cines/S: Lyda Borelli/Romance remade in Hollywood in 1922 as
The Eternal Flame.)
Tosen fran Stormyrtorpet / The Girl from the Marsh Croft
(Sweden/Victor Sjostrom; Svenska Bio/S: Lars Hanson, Karin
Molander/Conflicting reports of its existence)
1918
Dida Ibsens Geschichte / The Story of Dida Ibsen (Germany/Richard
Oswald/Sexual drama)
The Greatest Thing In Life (US/D.W. Griffith; Paramount)
The Kaiser, the Beast of Berlin (US/Rupert Julian; Renowned Pictures;
Jewel/S: Rupert Julian, Elmo Lincoln, Lon Chaney)
Salome (US/J. Gordon Edwards; Fox/S: Theda Bara)
Das Tagebuch einer Verlorenen / The Diary of a Lost Woman
(Germany/Richard Oswald/S: Erna Morena/Story filmed again in 1929 by
GW Pabst with Louise Brooks)
1919
Anne of Green Gables (US/William Desmond Taylor; Realart Pictures/S:
Mary Miles Minter/Apparently one of Minter's best.)
La cigarette (France/Germaine Dulac/Poetic romantic obsession drama)
De Duivel in Amsterdam / The Devil in Amsterdam (Netherlands/Theo
Frenkel/Satan wreaks havoc in Holland)
A Feher rozsa / The White Rose (Hungary/Alexander Korda/Arabian
fantasy)
Halbblut / The Half-Caste / The Half Breed (Germany/Fritz Lang;
Decla-Bioscop/Lang's debut as director)
Der Knabe in Blau / The Boy in Blue (Germany/F.W. Murnau/Macabre
fantasy)
The Miracle Man (US/George Loane Tucker; Mayflower Photoplay;
Paramount/S: Lon Chaney, Thomas Meighan, Betty Compson)
Prinz Kuckuck / Prince Cuckoo (Germany/Paul Leni; Gloria-Film/S:
Conrad Veidt)
Rausch / Intoxication (Germany/Ernst Lubitsch/S: Asta Nielsen, Alfred
Abel)
1920
‘A Legge / The Law (Italy/Elvira Notari/Neorealism precursor with
feminist angle)
Der Bucklige und die Tänzerin / The Hunchback and the Dancer
(Germany/F.W. Murnau)
The Devil's Passkey (US/Erich von Stroheim; Universal/Stroheim's
second feature as director)
Fumee noire / Black Smoke (France/Louis Delluc/Nightmarish
sychological drama.)
Helleveeg / Hellcat (Netherlands/Theo Frenkel/Bar whore corrupts
family.)
Humor Risk (US/Dick Smith/S: Marx Brothers/First Marx film)
Der Januskopf / The Janus Head (Germany/F.W.Murnau; Decla-Bioscop/S:
Conrad Veidt/Unauthorized Jekyll and Hyde adaptation)
Over the Hill to the Poorhouse (US/Harry F. Millarde; Fox/S: Mary
Carr/Melodrama; one of the biggest hits of the silent era.)
Remodeling Her Husband (US/Lillian Gish/Gish's only direction credit.)
Satanas (Germany/F.W. Murnau/S: Fritz Kortner, Conrad Veidt/Epic
multi-story historical fantasy)
Treasure Island (US/Maurice Tourneur; Maurice Tourneur Prod.;
Paramount-Artcraft/S: Lon Chaney, Charles Ogle, Shirley Mason)
1921
Fraulein Julie / Miss Julie (Germany/Felix Basch/S: Asta Nielsen,
William Dieterle/Strindberg's romantic tragedy.)
Irrende Seelen / Slaves of Sin (Germany/Carl Froelich;
Decla-Bioscop/S: Asta Nielsen/Dostoevsky's "The Idiot.")
1922
Bulldog Drummond (UK/Oscar Apfel/Evidently a lively silent version)
Herzog Ferrantes Ende / Duke Ferrante's End (Germany/Paul Wegener;
UFA/S: Paul Wegener, Ernst Deutsch, Lyda Salmonova/Henri Langlois
called it a masterpiece.)
Szenzacio / Sensation (Hungary/Pal Fejos/Another adaptation of
Pushkin's The Queen of Spades.)
The Village Blacksmith (US/John Ford; Fox/Final reel restored.)
1923
Die Austreibung / The Expulsion (Germany/F.W. Murnau; Decla-Bioscop)
Flaming Youth (US/John Francis Dillon; First National/S: Colleen
Moore, Milton Sills)
Hollywood (US/James Cruze; Paramount/S: Hope Drown, Luke Cosgrave;
all-star cameo cast)
Human Wreckage (US/John Griffith Wray; Thomas H. Ince; Metro/S:
Dorothy Davenport, Bessie Love)
L'ironie du destin / The Irony of Fate (France/Dimitri Kirsanoff/S:
Dimitri Kirsanoff, Nadia Sibirskaia/Poetic, romantic tragedy)
Love, Life and Laughter / Tiptoes (UK/George Pearson/S: Betty Balfour,
Harry Jonas/Moody romantic drama)
Vanity Fair (US/Hugo Ballin; Goldwyn/S: Harrison Ford, Eleanor
Boardman)
Woman to Woman (UK/Graham Cutts/S: Betty Compson, Clive Brook/Art
directed and co-scripted by Alfred Hitchcock. Launched careers of
Hitchcock, Michael Balcon and Victor Saville.)
1924
Amsterdam bij Nacht / Amsterdam By Night (Netherlands/Theo
Frenkel/Doctor loves prostitute; risque melodrama.)
Babbitt (US/Harry Beaumont; Warner/S: Willard Louis, Mary Alden)
La casa dei pulcini / The House of Pulcini (Italy/Mario
Camerini/Romance; one of the last significant Italian silents.)
Hedda Gabler (Germany/Franz Eckstein/S: Asta Nielsen/Ibsen
adaptation.)
In Hollywood with Potash and Perlmutter (US/Alfred E. Green; Goldwyn;
First National/S: George Sidney/All-star comedy)
Merton of the Movies (US/James Cruze; Famous Players-Lasky;
Paramount/S: Glenn Hunter, Viola Dana/Acclaimed comedy.)
So Big (US/Charles Brabin; First National/S: Colleen Moore/Edna
Ferber's epic)
Tess of the D'Urbervilles (US/Marshall Neilan; MGM/S: Blanche Sweet,
Conrad Nagel)
1925
Kiss Me Again (US/Ernst Lubitsch; Warner/S: Marie Prevost, Monte Blue,
Clara Bow)
El Lazarillo de Tormes (Spain/Florian Rey/16th century road movie by
Spain's most revered silent director; 1959 remake is excellent.)
Madame Sans-Gene (France/US/Leonce Perret; Paramount/S: Gloria
Swanson)
Das Spielzeug von Paris / The Plaything of Paris
(Austria/Germany/France/Michael Curtiz/S: Lily Damita/Sexy cabaret
epic.)
That Royle Girl (US/D.W. Griffith: Famous Players-Lasky; Paramount/S:
W.C. Fields, Carol Dempster)
The Tower of Lies (US/Victor Sjostrom (Seastrom); MGM/S: Lon Chaney,
Norma Shearer)
1926
Die Abenteuer eines Zehnmarkscheines / Adventures of a Ten Mark Note
(Germany/Berthold Viertel; Fox Europa; UFA/S: Mary Nolan, Werner
Fuetterer, Oskar Homolka/Early omnibus drama, as bill is passed from
hand to hand)
Arirang (Korea/Na Un-gyu/Melodrama sometimes cited as the greatest
masterpiece of Korean cinema)
Bardelys the Magnificent (US/King Vidor; MGM/S: John Gilbert, Eleanor
Boardman)
The Great Gatsby (US/Herbert Brenon; Famous Players-Lasky;
Paramount/S: Warner Baxter, Lois Wilson/)
The Mountain Eagle (UK/Germany/Alfred Hitchcock; Gainsborough;
Münchner Lichtspielkunst/S: Nita Naldi, Bernard Goetzke)
L' Ultimo Lord (Italy/Augusto Genina/S: Carmen Boni/Gender-bending
comedy)
A Woman of the Sea / The Sea Gull (US/Josef von Sternberg, (for
Charles Chaplin); Regent; United Artists/S: Edna Purviance)
1927
Camille (US/Fred Niblo; Norma Talmadge Film Corp.; First National/S:
Norma Talmadge, Gilbert Roland/Reduced version alleged to exist)
The City Gone Wild (US/James Cruze; Paramount/S: Thomas Meighan,
Louise Brooks)
Evening Clothes (US/Luther Reed; Famous Players-Lasky; Paramount/S:
Adolphe Menjou, Louise Brooks/Comedy)
Hats Off (US/Hal Yates; Hal Roach; MGM/S: Stan Laurel, Oliver Hardy)
London After Midnight (US/Tod Browning; MGM/S: Lon Chaney/I know, it
was probably crap.)
The Magic Flame (US/Henry King; Samuel Goldwyn; UA/S: Ronald
Colman/Nominated for cinematography AA.)
The Potters (US/Fred C. Newmeyer; Famous Players-Lasky; Paramount/S:
W.C. Fields, Mary Alden)
Service for Ladies (US/Harry d'Abbadie d'Arrast; Paramount/S: Adolphe
Menjou/Sophisticated comedy)
Sorrell and Son (US/Herbert Brenon; Feature Prod.; United Artists/S:
H.B. Warner, Anna Q. Nilsson/Best director AA nomination)
The Way of All Flesh (US/Victor Fleming; Paramount/S: Emil
Jannings/Best actor AA)
1928
The Dragnet / The Drag Net (US/Josef von Sternberg; Paramount/S:
George Bancroft, Evelyn Brent, William Powell)
Four Devils (US/F.W. Murnau; Fox/S: Anders Randolf, Janet Gaynor)
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (US/Malcolm St. Clair; Paramount/S: Ruth
Taylor, Alice White, Ford Sterling)
The Honeymoon (US/Erich von Stroheim; Paramount/S: Zasu Pitts, Fay
Wray, Erich von Stroheim/Sequel to Stroheim's "The Wedding March.")
Huoshao honglian si / Burning of the Red Lotus Monastery (China/Zhang
Shichuan; Mingxing/First successful Chinese martial arts movie)
Ladies of the Mob (US/William A. Wellman; Paramount/S: Clara Bow,
Richard Arlen)
The Last Moment (US/Pal Fejos)
The Masks of the Devil (US/Victor Sjostrom; MGM/S: John Gilbert, Alma
Rubens)
My Man (US/Archie Mayo; Warner/S: Fanny Brice/3 reels exist.)
The Patriot (US/Ernst Lubitsch; Paramount/S: Emil Jannings, Florence
Vidor, Lewis Stone)
Roningai Daiichiwa / The Street Of Masterless Samurai (Japan/Masahiro
Makino/Three-part samurai series totaling 56 reels)
The Street of Sin (US/Mauritz Stiller, Ludwig Berger; Paramount/S:
Emil Jannings, Fay Wray/Seven reels.)
Therese Raquin (France/Germany/Jacques Feyder/S: Gina Manes/Emile
Zola's tragic story; evidently one of the great lost masterworks of
silent cinema.)
The Three Passions (UK/France/Rex Ingram; United Artists/S: Alice
Terry, Ivan Petrovich)
1929
The Battle of Paris (US/Robert Florey; Paramount/S: Gertrude Lawrence,
Charles Ruggles/War drama.)
Construire un feu / To Build a Fire (France/Claude
Autant-Lara/Experimental Jack London adaptation; first use of
anamorphic widescreen lens.)
Gold Diggers of Broadway (US/Roy Del Ruth; Warner/S: Nancy Welford,
Conway Tearle, Winnie Lightner/Hit musical comedy filmed in two-strip
Technicolor. Two reels exist.)
Jealousy (US/Jean de Limur; Paramount/S: Jeanne Eagels, Fredric
March/Eagels' second talkie, and last film.)
Sole / Sun (Italy/Alessandro Blasetti/Pre-neorealist docudrama. Part
may exist.)
Thunder (US/William Nigh; MGM/S: Lon Chaney/Fragment exists.)
Tokai kokyogaku / Metropolitan Symphony (Japan/Kenji Mizoguchi;
Nikkatsu)
1930
The Man from Blankley's (US/Alfred E. Green; Warner/S: John Barrymore,
Loretta Young/Acclaimed farce.)
No, No Nanette (US/Clarence Badger/S: Bernice Claire)
The Rogue Song (US/Lionel Barrymore; MGM/S: Lawrence Tibbett,
Catherine Dale Owen, Stan Laurel, Oliver Hardy/MGM's first color
musical; fragments exist.)
Zanjin zamba ken / Man-Slashing, Horse-Piercing Sword (Japan/Daisuke
Ito/Legendary samurai film.)
1931
Annabelle's Affairs / The Affairs of Annabelle (US/Alfred L. Werker;
Fox/S: Jeanette MacDonald, Victor McLaglen/Sophisticated marital
comedy.)
The Bells (UK/Oscar M. Werndorff, Harcourt Templeman/S: Donald
Calthrop/Expressionistic British murder mystery.)
Calais-Douvres / Calais-Dover / Dover-Calais (France/Jean Boyer;
UFA/S: Lillian Harvey/Comedy operetta.)
Echec au roi / The King Checkmated (France/US/Leon D'Usseau, Henri de
La Falaise; United Artists/S: Françoise Rosay/Comedy.)
The Ghost Train (UK/Walter Forde; Gainsborough/S: Jack Hulbert, Cicely
Courtneidge/Mystery. Five of seven reels exist; only two reels of
sound extant.)
Las Luces de Buenos Aires / The Lights of Buenos Aires
(US/France/Argentina/Spain/Adelqui Migliar; Paramount/S: Carlos
Gardel/Gardel's sound debut.)
Tu seras Duchesse! / You Will Be a Duchess! (France/Rene Guissart;
Paramount/S: Marie Glory, Fernand Gravey/Musical comedy.)
Un homme en habit /A Man in Swallowtails, A (France/Rene Guissart;
Paramount/S: Fernand Gravey, Diana, Suzy Vernon/Remake of another lost
film, Evening Clothes (1927).)
Yorck (Germany/Gustav Ucicky; UFA/S: Werner Krauss/Historical epic
about Prussian general Ludwig Graf Yorck von Wartenburg.)
1932
Les as du turf / Aces of the Turf (France/Serge de Poligny;
Paramount/Witty farce.)
Le chasseur de chez Maxim's / The Porter at Maxim's (France/Karl
Anton; Paramount/S: Tramel, Suzy Vernon, Mireille Perrey/Romantic
comedy.)
Cognasse (France/Louis Mercanton; Paramount/Comedy; man acts like
Napoleon.)
Condemned to Death (UK/Walter Forde/S: Arthur Wontner, Edmund
Gwenn/British "quota quickie" crime drama with hypnosis used for
revenge.)
La Couturiere de Luneville / The Dressmaker of Luneville
(France/US/Harry Lachman; Paramount/S: Pierre Blanchar, Madeleine
Renaud/Acclaimed melodrama)
Dakine no Nagadosu / Sleeping with a Long Sword (Japan/Sadao
Yamanaka/Classic Japanese "tendency" film.)
Europa / Europe 31-32 (Poland/Franciszka and Stefan
Themerson/Experimental film using still photos.)
Haru wa gofujin kara / Spring Comes From the Ladies (Japan/Yasujiro
Ozu; Shochiku/S: Tatsuo Saito)
The Star Reporter (UK/Michael Powell/Fast-paced crime film.)
Une etoile disparait / A Star Vanishes (France/Robert Villers/Early
take on "The Pink Panther.")
Une heure pres de toi / One Hour With You (France/US/Ernst Lubitsch;
Paramount/S: Maurice Chevalier, Lili Damita, Jeanette MacDonald/Note:
Racier French-language version of the Lubitsch classic.)
Walking Down Broadway (US/Erich von Stroheim/S: James Dunn, Zasu
Pitts/Mutilated beyond recognition as "Hello, Sister!")
1933
Convention City (US/Archie Mayo; Warner/S: Joan Blondell, Adolphe
Menjou/Notorious pre-Code)
Ragazzo / Boy (Italy/Ivo Perilli; Cines/Prro boy joins street gang;
neorealism precursor)
1934
La Traviesa molinera / The Mischievous Miller's Wife (Spain/Harry
d'Abbadie d'Arrast/Eleanor Boardman/67m./Note: Musical comedy praised
by Charlie Chaplin.)
1935
Some Day / Someday (UK/Michael Powell/Romance in flashback.)
1936
Annie Laurie (UK/Walter Tennyson/S: Will Fyffe, Polly Ward/Note:
Musical comedy)
The Brown Wallet (UK/Michael Powell/Murder mystery.)
1937
Bezhin lug / Bezhin Meadow (USSR/Sergei M. Eisenstein; Mosfilm)
Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un faune / Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun
(Italy/Roberto Rossellini/Early Rossellini experimental animated
short)
1938
Bar du sud / Southern Bar (France/Henri Fescourt/S: Charles Vanel/Spy
adventure in Africa)
Magdat kicsapjak / Magda is Expelled (Hungary/Ladislao Vajda/Comedy.
One of the most sought-after lost Hungarian ilms.)
Too Much Johnson (US/Orson Welles/S: Joseph Cotten/The story of my big
"man package". Ha, just seeing if you're still awake.)
1941
Juan de la calle / Juan the Street Boy (Venezuela/Rafael
Rivero/Realistic drama. First notable Venezuelan film.)
1944
Der Fall Molander / The Molander Affair (Germany/Georg Wilhelm Pabst;
Terra Filmkunst/S: Paul Wegener, Harold Paulsen/Tragedy of a
violinist; conflicting info on survival status)
--------
Kevin Rayburn
earthg...@NOWAYSPAMyahoo.com
Use the above email address and remove "nowayspam" to write; the
"notmyreale...@yahoo.com" will not be accessed (just created
it as a spam dump in order to open a google account) -k
Precode
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 15:18:33 -0500, Eric Stott <est...@localnet.com> wrote:
>
> >What lost films would you like found? Any personal choices aside from
> >the famous ones?
>
> All of them.
>
> Oh all right, then, here's some particular ones:
>
> "London After Midnight" (because I've seen the reconstruction and would now
> like to see the original so I can make more sense of the reconstruction, if
> you know what I mean)
> all of Lon Chaney's other lost films
> "The Patriot"
> "The Terror"
> "Convention City"
> the uncut "Greed", "Napoleon" and "La Roue"
> "Four Devils"
> the 1914 "Golem" and "The Golem and the Dancer"
>
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the lost Raymond Griffith features:
WEDDING BILLS, WET PAINT, etc.
Mike S.
"This looks like a job for the coroner."--RG, multiple times in YOU'D
BE SURPRISED
Peter Rottontail
Werent there 1 or 2 early MGM 3 Stooges shorts that are consdiered "lost". One
was called "Hello Pop" (??)
PR
James Russell
>What is the deal with "Four Devils"? I read somewhere that the negative does
>exist.
You and I have probably read the same book claiming the "Four Devils"
negative still exists. I've asked that question here before and apparently
the answer is "no it doesn't". I suppose if the negative did exist a print
would be made from it (as happened, I think, with a couple of earlier "lost"
Murnau films when their negatives turned up).
greta de groat
films!
greta
Kevin Rayburn wrote:
> Humanidad (Spain/Domčnec Ceret, Alfred Fontanals/Realistic Spanish
J. Theakston
While we're on that topic, the lost Chaney films that interest me the
most are the ones around 1915 that he did at Universal. "Quits",
"The Chimney's Secret" and "The Violin Maker" all sound quite
interesting and have intriguing photographs.
-J. Theakston
Stephen Cooke
I'm wondering if there was even a script! (There's a new book out now on
The Films of H.G. Wells, but I haven't got my hands on a copy to see if it
even mentions this non-starter. Obviously Paramount bought the rights to
the book at this time, then sat on them until the 50s when the George
Pal/Byron Haskin version came out).
swac
Frederica
"greta de groat" <gdeg...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:3E769DE3...@stanford.edu...
> here, here, great list! Sure would have loved to see those Lyda Borelli
> films!
>
> greta
>
My list consists of most of Betty Bronson's silent films, and THE YOUNG
RAJAH.
Frederica
Robert Miller
"Greta de Groat" <gdeg...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:3E75F75A...@stanford.edu...
>
> I notice that all of the above but one are Vitagraph features. Perhaps
there is a good
> reason so many are lost.
Ah! The Vitagraph mystery....
Disciples of the highly controversial scholar Barry ("Film Style and
Technology") Salt are probably well versed in his argument that the Big V
was the home of much major innovation in its early years, only to be grossly
overlooked by the politics of Griffith-worship, decades later.
Of course, by the time that the Brothers Warner bought out the elderly
business, the historic studio was only limping along at playing catch-up.
Tony Slide's revised edition of his Vitagraph history is a valuable start,
but I suspect that much more can still be discovered and will be championed
about Big V --- someday.
--Robert Miller
Roxor2
The Films of H.G. Wells, but I haven't got my hands on a copy to see if it
even mentions this non-starter. Obviously Paramount bought the rights to
the book at this time, then sat on them until the 50s when the George
Pal/Byron Haskin version came out). >>
WAR OF THE WORLDS wasn't the only sci-fi property Paramount sat on for a long
time. The studio optioned the Edwin Balmer-Philip Wylie novel WHEN WORLDS
COLLIDE back in the '30s, shortly after it was originally published in BLUE
BOOK, at that time a classy pulp magazine. IIRC, COLLIDE was listed in a mid
'30s Paramount campaign book as an upcoming Cecil B. De Mille production. I
doubt it got to the script stage, though. Of course, WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE was
also a '50s Pal production, a box-office hit, and an Oscar winner for the
producer. I'm sure its success inspired Paramount to dust off the Wells
property and assign it to Pal.
Ed Hulse
Kevin Rayburn
> here, here, great list! Sure would have loved to see those Lyda Borelli
> films!
Thanks for the compliment Greta. I'm a major lurker in this newsgroup
and rarely post. A compliment from you is an honor.
After I posted the list I realized there were a number of interesting
ommissions, especially for 1921:
Drakula / Drakula halala / Death of Dracula, The (Hungary/Karoly
Lajthay/Dracula film that premiered before Nosferatu)
The Lotus Eater (US/Marshall Neilan/s John Barrymore, Colleen Moore)
L'Ombre dechiree / Torn Shadow (France/Leon Poirier/Woman begs angel
of Death to spare her daughter on Xmas eve)
Queen of Sheba, The (US/J. Gordon Edwards/Betty Blythe/Well known lost
epic)
Yan Ruisheng (China/Ren Pengnian/Crime mystery; first full-length
Chinese feature)
Did not mean to leave these off; I was just going through my list too
fast!
-Kevin
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
Wow Kevin, this is a fascinating list. Thank you for sharing this.
I'm a devotee of Thai culture, and it's a shame that so little of
Thailand's national cinema pre-WW2 has survived. In fact, the very
earliest Thai feature film to survive in complete form is Prajao
Changpeuk / The King of the White Elephants, released in 1941. Notable
early Thai productions which are lost or incomplete include:
Nang Sao Suwan / Suvarna of Siam - 1923, dir. Henry MacRae. Shot by an
American crew, this was the first feature film with an all-Thai cast.
Chok Sung Chun / Double Luck - 1927, dir. Kun Anurukrathakarn. First
Thai-produced feature film. One minute fragment survives.
Mai Kid Leuy / The Unexpected - 1927, dir. Kun Patipakpimlikit. Lost.
Krai Dee Krai Dai / None but the Brave - 1927, dir. Kun Anurukrathakarn.
Fragments survive.
Krai Pen Ba / Who is Mad? - 1928, dir. Kun Anurukrathakarn. Lost.
There were a total of 17 silent features produced in Thailand between
1927 and 1932.
Long Tang / Going Astray - 1932, dir. Kun Vijitmatra. First
Thai-produced sound film.
-Jeremy
PhantomXCI
>Here's a list of silent and sound lost films with more of a "world
>perspective" than usual; not just Hollywood. These aren't all the lost
>films that interest me, but are among the ones that seem to be the
>most significant. I didn't list the original versions of "Greed" or
>"The Magnificent Ambersons," since these are well known, or any of the
>lost William S. Harts, as silent westerns aren't my cup of tea. -kev
And I suppose you want them all on DVD, too?
You can cross DIDA IBSENS GESCHICHTE (1917) off your list of lost titles.
George Eastman House has a print.
Jay Salsberg
Archie Waugh
Stephen Cooke wrote:
>
> > Paramount's silent 1927 version of War of the Worlds.
> >
>
> I'm wondering if there was even a script! (There's a new book out now on
> The Films of H.G. Wells, but I haven't got my hands on a copy to see if it
> even mentions this non-starter. Obviously Paramount bought the rights to
> the book at this time, then sat on them until the 50s when the George
> Pal/Byron Haskin version came out).
Similarly, Paramount bought "When Worlds Collide" for DeMille in the Thirties,
but it sat on the shelf for 15-20 years till Pal made his version. Many
years later, the Phillip Wylie/Edwin Balmer source novel had to be credited
when somebody noticed that a third of the plot of Paramount's "Deep Impact"
had been lifted wholesale from it.
Archie Waugh
ChaneyFan
long time.
Ray Harryhausen was developing WAR OF THE WORLDS as a project in the 1940s, but
it never materialized for a variety of reasons. He even designed models for
the Martians. He wanted it done like Wells did...set in Victorian England.
===============================
Jon Mirsalis
e-mail: Chan...@aol.com
Lon Chaney Home Page: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan
Jon's Film Sites: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan/jonfilm.htm
Kevin Rayburn
> You can cross DIDA IBSENS GESCHICHTE (1917) off your list of lost titles.
> George Eastman House has a print.
>
> Jay Salsberg
Hmm. Is a 40-minute fragment from an 80 minute movie considered
"found?" I suppose if the remainder has a decent continuity. I presume
you are referring to this as being the Eastman House print.
-kevin
Kevin Rayburn
Jeremy. Thank you also. This is the sort of response I was hoping for;
to have another good list generated, and not only of the usual
Hollywood suspects. This list of early Thai films is informative and
useful to me. Thanks again.
-Kevin
Harlett O'Dowd
Speaking of which, Bob, if you're reading, any chance of rebooking TYR
excepts for Cinecon this year?
Tommie Hicks, Jr.
FROM LONDON TO LARAMIE (1917) and LOOK OUT BELOW (1918) - Harold Lloyd
THE CAT'S MEOW (1924, HEART TROUBLE (1928) Harry Langdon
SHE LOVED A NUT (1918), WET PAINT (1926), YOU'D BE SURPRISED (1926) Raymond Griffith
HIS LORSHIP'S DILEMMA (1915), TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE (1928) - W.C.Fields
A COUNTRY HERO (1917)- Roscoe Arbuckle
THE GIRL IN THE LIMOSINE (1924) - Larry Semon
MOLLY O' (1921) Mabel Normand
ROBINSON CRUSOE, LTD. (1921), A SELF MADE FAILURE (1924) Lloyd Hamilton
FLYING LUCK (1927) - Monty Banks
A SMALL TOWN IDOL (complete) (1921), DADDY BOY (1927) - Ben Turpin
A FRIENDLY HUSBAND (1922) - Lupino Lane
BROTHERS UNDER THE CHIN (1924), HATS OFF (1927) - Stan Laurel
LOVE 'EM AND FEED 'EM (1927), SHOULD WOMEN DRIVE? (1928)- Max Davidson
HIGHBROW STUFF (1924), GEE WHIZ GENEVIEVE (1924) - Will Rogers
HOLY SMOKE! (1921), WILD AND WOOZY (1927)- Jimmie Adams
Tommie Hicks
PhantomXCI
>
>> George Eastman House has a print.
>>
>> Jay Salsberg
>
>Hmm. Is a 40-minute fragment from an 80 minute movie considered
>"found?" I suppose if the remainder has a decent continuity. I presume
>you are referring to this as being the Eastman House print.
>
>-kevin
>
>
>
>
half the movie. But, as I recall, the continuity was very good and the film
told a coherent story. "Condensation" might be a better term... if, indeed,
the film was not complete. I didn't time it out, so I don't know. But if you
want to keep it on your list of lost titles, by all means do so. It just means
fewer people storming Eastman House to see it.
Jay Salsberg
Uncle Dave Lewis
"Kevin Rayburn" <notmyrealem...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2e4881a9.03031...@posting.google.com...
> Here's a list of silent and sound lost films with more of a "world
Kevin,
Your list was indeed excellent. Of those you listed there are many I would
like to see return (particularly "The Last Moment" and "Madame Sans-Gene"),
and a few that I really don't think would make much of an impression were
they to do so ("The Mountain Eagle"). Utilizing your format, I've added a
few more suggested titles below -
1904
Expermental Sound-Film made at St. Louis World's Fair (US/Eugene Lauste).
Reputed to have captured Scott Joplin playing one of his compositions for a
packed outdoor assembly. Some of Lauste's primitive sound films have been
recovered, but not this one.
1909
Experimental Sound-film made in Chicago with Enrico Caruso (US/Selig
Polyscope). This was a test film sychronized to a cylinder and may not have
been released to the public. Along with it, let me suggest that it would be
nice to find even just a few more Selig subjects of *any* kind.
1913
The Dance of Death (US/Robert G. Vignola; Kalem/S: Alice Joyce.)
Descriptions in Moving Picture World make this title seem like it is a
really interesting one.
1914
"The Lauder Talkers" (as per their description in Variety - US/Selig
Polyscope/S. Harry Lauder) 14 short sound films, synchronized to
cylinders, starring the Scots comedian Harry Lauder.
1914-1917
ANY animated subjects made by Emile Cohl for Eclair's American studio.
I don't even know of one that survives.
1917
Jim Bludso (US/Tod Browning & Wilfred Lucas/S. Wilfred Lucas)
Browning's directorial debut - doesn't sound like much but seems like
something that might play better than it reads.
1918
The Greatest Thing in Life (US/D.W. Griffith; Artcraft/S. and co-scenarist
Lillian Gish) Alright - the story doesn't sound so appetizing to me either,
but
Miss Gish in her book said that she thought it was the lovliest of DWG's
films,
and the only one in which re-addressed the racist themes in BOAN with a
counterspin.
1919
Kathleen Mavourneen (US/Charles Brabin; Fox/S. Theda Bara). Self-explanatory
(!)
1920
Tarnished Reputations (US/Léonce Perret & Alice Guy-Blaché). The last
American film for Perret and the last altogether for Guy Blaché.
1923
Second-Hand Love (US/William A. Wellman; Fox). Wellman's first full-fledged
directorial credit and his first Buck Jones western.
1927
Two Flaming Youths (US/John Waters; Paramount/S. W.C. Fields, Chester
Conklin, Mary Brian and practically every great Vaudeville comic of the
day.)
The House Behind the Cedars (US/Oscar Micheaux; Micheaux Productions).
Micheaux' most popular film, and reputed to be his best.
1929
Why Bring That Up? (US/George Abbott; Paramount/S. Moran and Mack). This is
a film held hostage. It survives in one print at UCLA, but it is shrinking
badly. Because the stars of the film are blackface comics, and the show is
far from being "politically correct", funding for restoration of this film
is unlikely to be found before it's gone. However this was Moran & Mack's
biggest hit in the movies, and the only movie made by famed stage producer
Abbott. (Perhaps in 74 years this is how they'll feel about "The Sweetest
Thing" (2002)?)
1930
Georgia Rose (US/Harry A. Gant; Astor Pictures Corp./S.Clarence Brooks,
Evelyn Preer) The only sound film in which Preer had a sizeable role and
perhaps the only one featuring her singing.
1932
The Seventh Commandment (US/Dwain Esper; Roadshow Attractions). One reel may
survive from this grim and ludicrous tragedy on the perils of VD.
1934
White Heat (US/Lois Weber; Pinnacle Pictures). I've heard this is lost, but
there's a detailed description on imdb. Is our "friend" who irresponsibly
submits reviews of lost films as though he's seen them responsible for this,
or has it really been found?
In the Icy Wastes of Dialetical Materialism (France/Luis Buñuel; de
Noailles) The party scene from Buñuel's "L'Age D'or" with a few added scenes
re-cut into a two-reel comedy designed to play at leftist theaters in Russia
and Eastern Europe. And yes, both the original film-maker and producer not
only approved of this version, but they were responsible for it!
1935
Der Dämon de Himalaya (Germany/Andre Marton; unreleased). This feature was
made in Tibet and was one of the last "mountain films". German censors
banned it before release, but Marton salvaged much of the footage and
recycled it into Storm Over Tibet (US/Columbia Pictures 1952). But I haven't
found any reference to the original film having been preserved.
1948
The Betrayal (US/Oscar Micheaux) Micheaux' last film, and said in some
sources to have run nearly three hours.
1955
The Unthinking Lobster (France/Orson Welles) This is a movie that is little
more than a rumor; allegedly a short in an experimental style made as an
insert to a French stage production. But even lists which go into depth on
Welles' unfinished projects do not mention it.
A few comments about these from Kevin's original list:
1913
Raja Harishchandra / King Harishchandra (India/Dhundiraj Govind
Phalke/First indiginously made Indian feature.)
While the original and only nitrate print of this was destroyed earlier this
year, I
have read that it was copied to safety film at some point, for what that's
worth.
1937
Bezhin lug / Bezhin Meadow (USSR/Sergei M. Eisenstein; Mosfilm)
There has been a "reconstructed" version of this film in circulation since
the 1960s.
Criterion released it on DVD in 2001. I haven't seen it, but I remember
reading that any footage that can possibly be retrieved from this unfinished
film was used in the reconstruction.
Of course, if anyone has information that these films are other than "lost",
feel free to educate me. What is the status of The Alaskan (US/1924; Herbert
Brenon) with Thomas Meighan?
Uncle Dave Lewis
Philip
"Uncle Dave Lewis" <alewis1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6yqdnfEl_8_...@comcast.com...
>
> 1929
> Why Bring That Up? (US/George Abbott; Paramount/S. Moran and Mack). This
is
> a film held hostage. It survives in one print at UCLA, but it is shrinking
> badly. Because the stars of the film are blackface comics, and the show is
> far from being "politically correct", funding for restoration of this film
> is unlikely to be found before it's gone. However this was Moran & Mack's
> biggest hit in the movies, and the only movie made by famed stage producer
> Abbott. (Perhaps in 74 years this is how they'll feel about "The Sweetest
> Thing" (2002)?)
Didn't Abbott direct TOO MANY GIRLS, and co-direct DAMN YANKEES! and THE
PAJAMA GAME?
> 1937
> Bezhin lug / Bezhin Meadow (USSR/Sergei M. Eisenstein; Mosfilm)
>
> There has been a "reconstructed" version of this film in circulation since
> the 1960s.
> Criterion released it on DVD in 2001. I haven't seen it, but I remember
> reading that any footage that can possibly be retrieved from this
unfinished
> film was used in the reconstruction.
IIRC, all that survived of BEZHIN LUG were the first and last frames of each
shot, which Eisenstein kept for editing purposes. These were used in the
reconstruction.
Might I add to the list SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS (1900), which was a series of
1-2 minute pieces used as part of a "multi-media" presentation (with picture
slides, lectures and prayers) by the Salvation Army in Australia.
Steven Rowe
homes...@netburner.net (Tommie Hicks, Jr.) writes:
>HER FRIEND THE BANDIT (1914) - Mabel Normand and Charlie Chaplin
>
wasnt there a rumor that this had been found by a famous Brazillian collector?
--- it has been awhile since that was remarked on --
is it same to assume that it is still lost?
steven rowe
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Uncle Dave Lewis
"Philip" <spam...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3e7987ae$0$27769$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Uncle Dave Lewis" <alewis1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:6yqdnfEl_8_...@comcast.com...
> >
> > 1929
> > Why Bring That Up? (US/George Abbott; Paramount/S. Moran and Mack). This
> is
> > a film held hostage. It survives in one print at UCLA, but it is
shrinking
> > badly. Because the stars of the film are blackface comics, and the show
is
> > far from being "politically correct", funding for restoration of this
film
> > is unlikely to be found before it's gone. However this was Moran &
Mack's
> > biggest hit in the movies, and the only movie made by famed stage
producer
> > Abbott. (Perhaps in 74 years this is how they'll feel about "The
Sweetest
> > Thing" (2002)?)
>
> Didn't Abbott direct TOO MANY GIRLS, and co-direct DAMN YANKEES! and THE
> PAJAMA GAME?
>
admittedly musicals are not my forte.
But this still does not unseat my basic argument - "Why Bring That Up?" is
an important film and should not be allowed to perish, despite what the
poliutical climate may be at this point in time or any other.
Uncle Dave Lewis
Kevin Rayburn
> news:2e4881a9.03031...@posting.google.com...
> > Here's a list of silent and sound lost films with more of a "world
> > perspective" than usual; not just Hollywood. (snip)>
>
> Kevin,
>
> Your list was indeed excellent. Of those you listed there are many I would
> like to see return (particularly "The Last Moment" and "Madame Sans-Gene"),
> and a few that I really don't think would make much of an impression were
> they to do so ("The Mountain Eagle"). Utilizing your format, I've added a
> few more suggested titles below -
Uncle Dave,
Thanks for the compliment and the interesting followup list. This is
good stuff.
I think that at least one of Emile Cohl's Eclair cartoons--"He Poses
for His Portrait" (from 1913 or 1915??) might exist. Some guy I have
corresponded with claims to have seen it. I actually thought it was on
video, but don't know the source. Has anyone else here seen it?
I'm assuming Cohl's 1914 Eclair cartoon "When He Wants A Dog, He Wants
A Dog" (first of the "Newlyweds" series) is lost. Can anyone here
elaborate on the 1914 Eclair vault fire that destroyed so much. Does
anyone know which American Eclairs have survived?
As for Raja Harishchandra (King Harishchandra), I understood that a
1917 remake survives (at least in part) but not the 1913 original.
There really needs to be one central accessible database on the web in
which all the archives can include info on which films do and don't
exist. It seems to me it would be more efficient for them.
I'd love to see "Why Bring That Up?" It is the very kind of film that
SHOULD be preserved for historical purposes BECAUSE of the blackface
routines. But you're right, who among the cowardly will pony up the
funds?
I agree, "The Mountain Eagle" doesn't sound all that good, but any of
Hitch's make the cut simply on his rep alone.
--kevin
Kevin Rayburn
Thanks for the elaboration/clarification. Obviously half the movie is
vastly more than none. I'm not always sure where to draw the line when
determining "lost." I'll probably remove this from my lost list and
include the footnote on length. You guys who get to places like
Eastman House need to take your stopwatches along, take copious notes
and share the info with those of us in the boonies who can't afford
the time or money to get to these distant archives. Since so few
Oswald films exist, and the ones that do exist are inaccessible to me,
I would be interested in your review (as much as you can remember) of
"Dida Ibsen."
BTW, if anyone in this group has a video copy of Jeanne Eagels in "The
Letter" I would make it worth your while if you could send me a dupe.
I'm working on a book and am stumped on my 1929 chapter until I can
see it.
-kevin
earthg...@SPAMAWAYyahoo.com
to reply, remove SPAMAWAY from the above address.
Brent Walker
>
> MOLLY O' (1921) Mabel Normand
>
UCLA restored MOLLY O' about three years ago. There is a short scene
or two missing that they filled in with stills, and the payoffs on
some gags are cut out, but otherwise it is fairly complete.
Brent Walker
greta de groat
Kevin Rayburn wrote:
> .....
> I agree, "The Mountain Eagle" doesn't sound all that good, but any of
> Hitch's make the cut simply on his rep alone.
>
> --kevin
And some of us would like to see anything starring Our Lady of Naldi.
greta
PhantomXCI
>Oswald films exist, and the ones that do exist are inaccessible to me,
>I would be interested in your review (as much as you can remember) of
>"Dida Ibsen."
Alas, I no longer have my notes on DIDA IBSEN. However, John Soister hits the
plot right on the head in his Conrad Veidt book. The only thing I can add is
that there was a scene in which the villain locks Dida and her child in a room
with an alligator!
I saw the film at GEH about 13-15 years ago, so (as I said) I don't recall how
long it was. But I do remember that it was at least one full 16mm' reel.
I have never found Richard Oswald to be a particularly interesting director.
Although he was highly touted as being one of the early leaders of German
cinema, I think his reputation is based on the subjects with which he dealt
(sex ed films, early anthology/multi-episodic features), rather than with his
strengths as a filmmaker. In spite of his great sets and big-name stars,
Oswald was a "point and click" director, with no independent visual style.
Kind-of like William Beaudine with a big budget.
Jay Salsberg
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
"Uncle Dave Lewis" <alewis1...@comcast.net> wrote:
> But this still does not unseat my basic argument - "Why Bring That Up?" is
> an important film and should not be allowed to perish, despite what the
> poliutical climate may be at this point in time or any other.
I have it on authority that important original nitrate material exists
on BIRTH OF A NATION (outtakes, etc.) which is similarly languishing in
archive (LOC IIRC) because of its status as political hot potato.
-Jeremy
Early Film
.>
>1929
> Why Bring That Up? (US/George Abbott; Paramount/S. Moran and
> Mack). This is a film held hostage. It survives in one print at UCLA,
> but it is shrinking badly. Because the stars of the film are blackface
> comics, and the show is far from being "politically correct", funding
> for restoration of this film is unlikely to be found before it's gone.
> However this was Moran & Mack's biggest hit in the movies, and the
> only movie made by famed stage producer Abbott.
If you sent them a check for about $2.00 per foot, I bet they will put it on
their schedule!
:-)
Dave continues:
> 1935
> Der Dämon de Himalaya (Germany/Andre Marton; unreleased).
> This feature was made in Tibet and was one of the last
> "mountain films". German censors banned it before release,
> but Marton salvaged much of the footage and
> recycled it into Storm Over Tibet (US/Columbia Pictures
> 1952). But I haven't found any reference to the original
> film having been preserved.
DER DÄMON DES HIMALAYA nitrate fragments were obtained from Columbia Pictures
and were preserved by the Library of Congress in January of 1993 under the
found-on-the-nitrate title of "Demon of the Himalayas".
The nitrate looks like it is an incomplete workprint. It had wax pencil
editor's marks and several "scene missing" titles (in English) inserted
throughout. This material was probably put together as a 'donut' around which
to build the 1951 film, STORM OVER TIBET. Some scenes have a guide track,
others do not.
The Library has preserved this 3,865 35mm feet as-found along with the found
guide track. No restoration has been done. The preserved material has never
been compared with the US release as far as I am aware. There is a viewing
copy.
Earl.
Uncle Dave Lewis
"Early Film" <earl...@aol.comedy> wrote in message
news:20030320193517...@mb-mk.aol.com...
> Uncle Dave Lewis muses.....
> .>
> >1929
> > Why Bring That Up? (US/George Abbott; Paramount/S. Moran and
> > Mack). This is a film held hostage. It survives in one print at UCLA,
> > but it is shrinking badly.
Early Film replied
>
> If you sent them a check for about $2.00 per foot, I bet they will put it
on
> their schedule!
> :-)
>
Indeed I'm not so sure it could shrink to a size so small that I could
afford even that! (-:
But realistically, it's a super hard sell. If you could manage to put
together a 16mm
package of some of the now ultra-rare 16mm TV prints of Moran & Mack shorts
and take it
around one might be able to raise funds for a restoration. But even that
would take
money, and you may well end up with as many protestors at your screening as
viewers-
or even more so.
Charlie Mack was a really interesting guy, and regarded as a comic genius by
his peers
(including W.C. Fields and Sennett). Moran & Mack are better known to record
collectors
more so than film experts. A fellow collector sent me a CD copy of a
"Paramount Publix" record promoting this film, and its falling down funny -
Eddie Cantor sings a retarded song called "Ooh Woo Woogie Boo".
> Dave continues:
>
> > 1935
> > Der Dämon de Himalaya (Germany/Andre Marton; unreleased).
> > This feature was made in Tibet and was one of the last
> > "mountain films". German censors banned it before release,
> > but Marton salvaged much of the footage and
> > recycled it into Storm Over Tibet (US/Columbia Pictures
> > 1952). But I haven't found any reference to the original
> > film having been preserved.
>
Early Film picked up the thread:
> DER DÄMON DES HIMALAYA nitrate fragments were obtained from Columbia
Pictures
> and were preserved by the Library of Congress in January of 1993 under the
> found-on-the-nitrate title of "Demon of the Himalayas".
(snip!)
> The Library has preserved this 3,865 35mm feet as-found along with the
found
> guide track. No restoration has been done. The preserved material has
never
> been compared with the US release as far as I am aware. There is a
viewing
> copy.
Gee thanks! Well, I guess there's reason to hope we'll see this someday - it
sure would be lovely to have a German print to compare it to. Arthur
Honegger's great musical score survives, and even some of that was also
carried over into STORM OVER TIBET. For those interested in putting together
live concerts consisting of film with orchestra type program, this would be
a terrific candidate, provided that the film were put into a screenable
state.
Uncle Dave Lewis
Tommie Hicks, Jr.
> In article <d018c63d.03031...@posting.google.com>,
> homes...@netburner.net (Tommie Hicks, Jr.) writes:
>
> >HER FRIEND THE BANDIT (1914) - Mabel Normand and Charlie Chaplin
> >
>
> wasnt there a rumor that this had been found by a famous Brazillian collector?
>
> --- it has been awhile since that was remarked on --
> is it same to assume that it is still lost?
>
> steven rowe
I believe the gent's name was Brouchard or something like that. What
he did discover was the last lost Chaplin film found CRUEL, CRUEL
LOVE.
Thanks Brent for the info on MOLLY O'. I hope more of you guys knock
some of my list.
Tommie Hicks
PhantomXCI
>> >
>>
>> wasnt there a rumor that this had been found by a famous Brazillian
collector?
>>
>> --- it has been awhile since that was remarked on --
>> is it same to assume that it is still lost?
>>
>> steven rowe
>
> I believe the gent's name was Brouchard or something like that. What
>he did discover was the last lost Chaplin film found CRUEL, CRUEL
>LOVE.
>
>Thanks Brent for the info on MOLLY O'. I hope more of you guys knock
>some of my list.
>
>Tommie Hicks
>
>
>
>
>
Enrique J. Bouchard. He was from Argentina, and used to sell 16mm films during
the 70s & 80s. He also used photos of Chaney from LAM in his advertisements!
Jay Salsberg
James Russell
Rayburn) wrote:
>As for Raja Harishchandra (King Harishchandra), I understood that a
>1917 remake survives (at least in part) but not the 1913 original.
I seem to recall reading that two reels of the 1913 "Harischandra" were
preserved. Think it may have been the first and last reels, but that detail
I'm uncertain about.
James R.
--
Hot Buttered Death http://hotbuttereddeath.blogspot.com/
Celluloid Dreams: Wednesday, 8pm AEST, 2SER 107.3 FM http://www.2ser.com/
Christopher Jacobs
> YOU'D BE SURPRISED (1926) Raymond Griffith
>
> MOLLY O' (1921) Mabel Normand
>
------------------------------------
YOU'D BE SURPRISED is quite entertaining, though not quite up to PATHS
TO PARADISE or HANDS UP. It's been shown at a Cinecon and a number of
other venues.
I'm moderately sure that MOLLY O is (or was) available on VHS but I
can't recall who distributed it (I thought I once saw it at a friend's
place, unless I'm confusing it with SUZANNA). It doesn't seem to be on
the websites for either Unknown Video or Grapevine.
--Christopher Jacobs
http://www.und.edu/instruct/cjacobs/Website/DigitalMovies.htm
Kevin Rayburn
> I seem to recall reading that two reels of the 1913 "Harischandra" were
> preserved. Think it may have been the first and last reels, but that detail
> I'm uncertain about.
>
> James R.
The only thing I know comes from "The Encyclopedia of Indian Cinema,"
by Ashish Rajadhyaksha and Paul Willemen (eds.), 1999, British Film
Institute, which mentions that half the 1917 remake survives.
If you could dig up where you read about the 1913 version and send me
the source I would sure like to follow up on that.
-kevin
earthg...@NOWAYSPAMyahoo.com
remove NOWAYSPAM to reply
Brent Walker
Yes it was SUZANNA, not MOLLY O, that was on VHS from Unknown Video,
and on the same tape was the surviving reel from RIDDLE GAWNE and
Harold Lloyd's A SAMMY IN SIBERIA.
Brent Walker
R H Draney
> I'm moderately sure that MOLLY O is (or was) available on VHS but
> I can't recall who distributed it (I thought I once saw it at a
> friend's place, unless I'm confusing it with SUZANNA). It doesn't
> seem to be on the websites for either Unknown Video or Grapevine.
About two years ago I saw an eBay auction for a tape of the
"restoration", although I think the seller claimed it was from
footage found in Russia....r
Robert Miller
And at least one researcher working on Americans employed in British films
at that time.
--Robert Miller
(Yes, I know that Balcon sent his cast to Germany and Austria for that one,
dissatisfied as he was with the difficult conditions at Islington and in
need of a Continental release.)
Tommie Hicks, Jr.
> homes...@netburner.net (Tommie Hicks, Jr.) wrote in message news:<d018c63d.03031...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > YOU'D BE SURPRISED (1926) Raymond Griffith
> >
> > MOLLY O' (1921) Mabel Normand
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> YOU'D BE SURPRISED is quite entertaining, though not quite up to PATHS
> TO PARADISE or HANDS UP. It's been shown at a Cinecon and a number of
> other venues.
I beg your pardon, I meant A REGULAR FELLOW (1927). Griff said later
in life this was the picture has was most proud of. Whets one's
appetite for it.
Tommie Hicks
James Russell
Rayburn) wrote:
>The only thing I know comes from "The Encyclopedia of Indian Cinema,"
>by Ashish Rajadhyaksha and Paul Willemen (eds.), 1999, British Film
>Institute, which mentions that half the 1917 remake survives.
>If you could dig up where you read about the 1913 version and send me
>the source I would sure like to follow up on that.
Unfortunately I read about it back in my university days, and my access to
those books is, like those days, sadly long gone. I'm intrigued by this
reference you've got to the 1917 film, though, since that bit about it
surviving only in half its original form is exactly what I've read about the
1913 film. Possibly whatever source I read (can't even remember what the
book was) was confusing it with the remake, though I don't think I even knew
there was a remake until you wrote about it. Perplexing.
So I've done a Google search on "harischandra 1913" to see what information
that turned up. One result I got was this page from a site about D.G.
Phalke, the film's director:
http://members.tripod.com/pbhooshan/backinin.htm
This mentions Phalke's efforts to remake the film in 1917, and also alludes
to another film Phalke made at the same time being in competition with an
altogether different version of the Harischandra story by one J.F. Madan.
Does your Indian film encyclopedia mention whether Phalke's or Madan's
version is the surviving one from 1917?
I observe also that the remains of the 1913 film appear to have been
screened in Korea just last year for the 58th FIAF congress:
http://www.koreafilm.or.kr/fiaf/film.html
Kevin Rayburn
> those books is, like those days, sadly long gone. I'm intrigued by this
> reference you've got to the 1917 film, though, since that bit about it
> surviving only in half its original form is exactly what I've read about the
> 1913 film. Possibly whatever source I read (can't even remember what the
> book was) was confusing it with the remake, though I don't think I even knew
> there was a remake until you wrote about it. Perplexing.
>
> So I've done a Google search on "harischandra 1913" to see what information
> that turned up. One result I got was this page from a site about D.G.
> Phalke, the film's director:
> http://members.tripod.com/pbhooshan/backinin.htm
> This mentions Phalke's efforts to remake the film in 1917, and also alludes
> to another film Phalke made at the same time being in competition with an
> altogether different version of the Harischandra story by one J.F. Madan.
> Does your Indian film encyclopedia mention whether Phalke's or Madan's
> version is the surviving one from 1917?
>
> I observe also that the remains of the 1913 film appear to have been
> screened in Korea just last year for the 58th FIAF congress:
> http://www.koreafilm.or.kr/fiaf/film.html
>
> James R.
The mystery deepens, but this is still useful info. Thanks. The
Encyclopedia of Indian Cinema is an immense volume and appears to be
the first attempt at a comprehensive scholarly overview on the
subject, with a listing of Indian cinema classics that takes up about
half the book. Let me go back to the library and photocopy the
relevant pages, and I can send them to you if you'd like. Maybe I'll
email the authors and try to get their take on the matter.
-kevin
lunatim
news:3E74DC19...@localnet.com...
> What lost films would you like found? Any personal choices aside from
> the famous ones?
>
> FALL OF A NATION- It probably stinks but It would be a reason to trot
> out the excellent Victor Herbert score.
>
> SORRELL AND SON. With H.B. Warner, Nils Asther, Anna Q. Nilsson, Alice
> Joyce and Carmel Myers. What a cast! - and a good story too!
>
> Eric Stott
>
Good question. Hmmm, here's my favorite lost films:
1. The original 42-reel version of Stroheim's "Greed" would be the Holy
Grail of all lost films, IMHO.
2. Theda Bara's 1917 Fox version of "Cleopatra".
3. Sara Bernhardt's "Queen Elizabeth" from 1911--Ironically, Ms. Bernhardt
condescended to starring in a movie (when movies were considered lowbrow)
for the express purpose of attaining immortality.
4. The hand-drawn animated movies of Emile Reynaud. In a fit of
frustration at not being recognized, Monsieur Reynaud threw most his movies
in the Seine in 1918 and only two are known to exist.
5. The first Technicolor movie ever made, "The Gulf Between", from 1918.
6. The few Laurel & Hardy movies still missing: "The Rogue Song", "Hats
Off", "Duck Soup", and a few others. I think one or two believed to be
missing have been found in foreign archives.
7. The original, 186-minute, uncut, pseudo-Cinerama version of "It's a Mad,
Mad, Mad, Mad World". Most of the footage that was trimmed for the regular
Panavision release is lost forever.
That's all I can think of at present...
Lunatim
ChaneyFan
I haven't seen it, but I believe it survives.
>>>6. The few Laurel & Hardy movies still missing: "The Rogue Song", "Hats
Off", "Duck Soup", and a few others.
DUCK SOUP definitely survives and was run at Cinecon or Cinefest many years
back. I remember it being pretty good.
===============================
Jon Mirsalis
e-mail: Chan...@aol.com
Lon Chaney Home Page: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan
Jon's Film Sites: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan/jonfilm.htm
David English
> >>>6. The few Laurel & Hardy movies still missing: "The Rogue Song", "Hats
> Off", "Duck Soup", and a few others.
>
> DUCK SOUP definitely survives and was run at Cinecon or Cinefest many years
> back. I remember it being pretty good.
I have it on DVD, though I haven't gotten around to watching it yet. The
disc is titled (ironically) "The Lost Films of Laurel and Hardy, Volume
Five." On the back of the box, it says Duck Soup was "long thought lost
until discovered in a Belgian archive in the 1980s."
Deep Discount DVD (www.deepdiscountdvd.com) sells it for $21.94.
Jasoncheaser
>Off", "Duck Soup", and a few others. I think one or two believed to be
>missing have been found in foreign archives.
you mean this duck soup?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000I210/qid=1048398672/sr
=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/104-1863915-3175903?v=glance&s=video
by the way...is there really such a thing as DUCK SOUP?!
Christopher Jacobs
>
> Good question. Hmmm, here's my favorite lost films:
>
> 1. The original 42-reel version of Stroheim's "Greed" would be the Holy
> Grail of all lost films, IMHO.
>
> 2. Theda Bara's 1917 Fox version of "Cleopatra".
>
> 3. Sara Bernhardt's "Queen Elizabeth" from 1911--Ironically, Ms. Bernhardt
> condescended to starring in a movie (when movies were considered lowbrow)
> for the express purpose of attaining immortality.
>
> 4. The hand-drawn animated movies of Emile Reynaud. In a fit of
> frustration at not being recognized, Monsieur Reynaud threw most his movies
> in the Seine in 1918 and only two are known to exist.
>
> 5. The first Technicolor movie ever made, "The Gulf Between", from 1918.
>
> 6. The few Laurel & Hardy movies still missing: "The Rogue Song", "Hats
> Off", "Duck Soup", and a few others. I think one or two believed to be
> missing have been found in foreign archives.
>
> 7. The original, 186-minute, uncut, pseudo-Cinerama version of "It's a Mad,
> Mad, Mad, Mad World". Most of the footage that was trimmed for the regular
> Panavision release is lost forever.
>
> That's all I can think of at present...
>
> Lunatim
Sarah Bernhardt's QUEEN ELIZABETH was 1912 and while definitely a
primitive feature production and obviously theatrical, it is not quite
as horribly static as many film history book reviews lead one to
believe. It was shown at a Cinecon in the late 1980s and is currently
available on VHS from Grapevine Video.
I would love for the Theda Bara CLEOPATRA to turn up, although I
understand that her putatively lost version of CARMEN (directed by
Raoul Walsh) apparently has quietly been undergoing restoration, or at
least negotiations for restoration, for the past several years but I
haven't heard any followups. Someone else on the list may have more
recent details. I'm probably one of the few people who have a soft
spot for the Helen Gardner 1912 CLEOPATRA (minus its pop-rock score)
and would also love to see Gardner's apparently surviving A SISTER TO
CARMEN (1913).
L&H's DUCK SOUP, as others have noted, survives, although what I saw
(at at least two Cinecons or a Cinecon and Cinefest) was a rather
dupey looking print with Dutch titles. It's got some funny bits, but
doesn't hold up as well as their better-known classics.
I thought I read somewhere that THE GULF BETWEEN or much of it does
survive, unless it is another pre-1920 experimental Technicolor
feature I'm thinking of. I have seen frame enlargements from it but
would love to see the feature, bad as it is said to be. As I recall,
at that point Technicolor was a sequential-frame two-color process,
and like Kinemacolor it suffered from color fringing whenever there
was quick motion.
The uncut IAMMMMW would indeed be a curiosity to see once, but the
existing version is only a so-so comedy with amusing moments that
could not be improved by making it yet longer. (But then I want to see
the uncut roadshow version and original director's cut of MACKENNA'S
GOLD, so what do I know?)
A lost film I'm really hoping will be discovered (that hasn't already
been mentioned) is L. Frank Baum's 1914 movie adaptation of his
non-Oz-related exotic adventure novel, THE LAST EGYPTIAN.
--Christopher Jacobs
http://www.und.edu/instruct/cjacobs/Website/DigitalMovies.htm
R H Draney
news:20030323005339...@mb-cd.aol.com:
>>6. The few Laurel & Hardy movies still missing: "The Rogue
>>Song", "Hats Off", "Duck Soup", and a few others. I think one or
>>two believed to be missing have been found in foreign archives.
>
> you mean this duck soup?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000I210/qid=104839
> 8672/sr =1-5/ref=sr_1_5/104-1863915-3175903?v=glance&s=video
>
> by the way...is there really such a thing as DUCK SOUP?!
"Take two turkeys, one goose, four cabbages, but no duck, and mix them
together. After one taste, you'll duck soup for the rest of your
life."
I haven't chimed in on the lost film list, since all but one of my
choices have already been named...the one exception was one I
mentioned when an earlier thread started on the same topic:
OUR GANG, the original film that started the series....r
Neil Midkiff
>
> "lunatim" <lun...@infi.net> wrote in message news:<b5j41s$apc$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>...
> >
> >
> survive, unless it is another pre-1920 experimental Technicolor
> feature I'm thinking of. I have seen frame enlargements from it but
> would love to see the feature, bad as it is said to be. As I recall,
> at that point Technicolor was a sequential-frame two-color process,
> and like Kinemacolor it suffered from color fringing whenever there
> was quick motion.
I don't know anything about its survival, but The Gulf Between was made in
an additive two-color Technicolor process, in which the projector had twin
apertures and twin lenses (one for each color filter) and required
detailed adjustments to make sure the two images overlapped perfectly on
the screen. As far as I can recall, the images were photographed
simultaneously on one strip of film (in alternating positions along the
film strip similarly to the 1920's two-color Tech camera), so the color
fringing would not have been the result of quick motion as in the
sequential-frame processes with rotating color filter wheels like
Kinemacolor. The fringing would have been the result of misalignment of
the lenses and would have affected static or moving subjects equally.
Dr. Kalmus later described the projectionist's task in keeping the
overlapping additive images properly aligned as requiring the combined
skills of a college professor and an acrobat (I'm paraphrasing from
memory), and so the decision was made to move to the subtractive systems
that could be exhibited with ordinary projectors. The double-thickness
cemented dyed two-color prints were the first of these systems to be used
(from 1922), followed by the dye-transfer (imbibition) two-color prints
beginning in 1926 or '27.
-Neil Midkiff
J. Theakston
> so the color
> fringing would not have been the result of quick motion as in the
> sequential-frame processes with rotating color filter wheels like
> Kinemacolor. The fringing would have been the result of misalignment of
> the lenses and would have affected static or moving subjects equally.
This is true, however, Kinemacolor does not have fringing when
projected. The red/green alternates so fast that the eye does not
catch it. It is only when the two are processed together that the
fringing is apparent.
> Dr. Kalmus later described the projectionist's task in keeping the
> overlapping additive images properly aligned as requiring the combined
> skills of a college professor and an acrobat (I'm paraphrasing from
> memory), and so the decision was made to move to the subtractive systems
> that could be exhibited with ordinary projectors.
Another reason is that subtractive color takes a LOT of light to get a
good exposure, and when projected, gives a very dim, mediocre throw
with not a lot of color. What confuses me though is why System 2
Technicolor is considered a subtractive system? You're essentially
taking the red/green negs, and then printing them red/green on the
film, not cyan/magenta like would be done with System 3.
-J. Theakston
Jasoncheaser
>together. After one taste, you'll duck soup for the rest of your
>life."
(groans) BAD-GAG!
Eric Stott
Jasoncheaser wrote:
And you are a judge of such things?
Richard M Roberts
Actually, much of OUR GANG survives, in a number of 100' home versions
put out in 16mm and 9.5mm. English Collector David Wyatt is currently
compiling these into a complete version.
Laurel and Hardy's DUCK SOUP has been around since the seventies, in two
different prints, one that has (as I remember) french and dutch titles,
and another print, which Blackhawk actually released in their final
days. Both prints varied slightly in ther footage.
RICHARD M ROBERTS
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
christoph...@und.nodak.edu (Christopher Jacobs) wrote:
> I'm probably one of the few people who have a soft
> spot for the Helen Gardner 1912 CLEOPATRA (minus its pop-rock score)
Hmmm... did I miss this one? The presence of a pop-rock score suggests a
recent presentation on DVD, but I can't find any reference to it. I'd
love to see this.
-J
Robert Lipton
Jeremy Bond Shepherd wrote:
It wasn't a pop-rock score. it was a new age chorale work and it was
presented on TCM a couple of years ago. The restoration was done by
Gardiner's great-grand-daughter or greay-great-granddaughter.
Which brings up anothe rp[ossibility for a thread: the worst score for
a silent movie.
Bob
Jasoncheaser
Yes, because I never make'em.
Early Film
>This is true, however, Kinemacolor does not have fringing when
>projected. The red/green alternates so fast that the eye does not
>catch it. It is only when the two are processed together that the
>fringing is apparent.
Kinemacolor has both flicker and fringing in its original form. The flicker
can be removed in restoration to Eastman Color, but the fringing cannot. It
was an additive process in its original form. Converted to Eastman color, it
can be made additive (frame sequencial) or subtractive (double expose the
colors on the same frame.)
>Another reason is that subtractive color takes a LOT of light to get a
>good exposure, and when projected, gives a very dim, mediocre throw
>with not a lot of color. What confuses me though is why System 2
>Technicolor is considered a subtractive system? You're essentially
>taking the red/green negs, and then printing them red/green on the
>film, not cyan/magenta like would be done with System 3.
Both process take about the same light to photograph, but additive takes more
light to project.
Whether the process is additive or subtractive referrers to projection, not to
photography.
Two color system I was B&W printstock projected through colored filters and was
additive.
Two color system II was a red-orange image and a blue-green image cemented
together and was subtractive.
Two color system III was a red-orange image imbibition printed onto a receiver,
then the blue-green image was inbibition printed on top of that and was
subtractive.
Earl.
Richard M Roberts
Why give Maria Newman and the Alloy Orchestra any more publicity?
RICHARD M ROBERTS
Fair Pickings
bobl...@nyc.rr.com wrote on 3/23/03 5:32 PM:
I think you just mentioned it.
Art Pierce
Hal Erickson
home-movie abridgements, one of which was released in the UK as FICKLE
FLORA (with rewritten subtitles containing British slang and supplying
Sunshine Sammy Morrison with a cockney accent!)
--Hal E
J. Theakston
> Kinemacolor has both flicker and fringing in its original form.
Not from what I've seen. I have a couple of Kinemacolor loops on
16mm. The flicker is very apparent, but once your eyes "adjust" to
it, it's less noticable. I did not see any fringing whatsoever, but
that could be just me.
Thanks for clearing up the Technicolor systems for me, though.
-J. Theakston
Christopher Jacobs
------------------------
The surviving Kinemacolor reel of THE SCARLET LETTER was shown in
Saginaw a few years ago, in 35mm with the sequential frames tinted in
the correct complementary color at about 32 fps rather than
superimposed to create full-color frames to run at about 16 fps. There
was severe flicker from beginning to end, although the colors were
quite pleasing. There was no fringing at all until anybody or anything
moved, when one color would precede and the other would follow the
motion--possibly an other reason (besides the 1911 production date)
for the very static, tableaux-like staging. Some other restored
Kinemacolor footage shown for comparison used superimposed frames and
exhibited no flicker but a great deal of fringing on all movements.
Still, I would like to see more Kinemacolor footage preserved and
restored to viewable color, maybe put on a DVD with the surviving
Gaumont color footage from around 1912, whose simultaneously exposed
but adjacent frame 3-color process (and with about a 1.75:1 widescreen
aspect ratio, almost exactly 16x9!) when restored today to full-color
frames looks like 3-strip Technicolor--no fringing or flicker at all,
but it originally suffered from alignment overlap problems in
projection from the 3-frame B&W sets, and the film had to run around
120 feet per minute.
--Christopher Jacobs
http://www.und.edu/instruct/cjacobs/Website/DigitalMovies.htm
J. Theakston
> Gaumont color footage from around 1912, whose simultaneously exposed
> but adjacent frame 3-color process (and with about a 1.75:1 widescreen
> aspect ratio, almost exactly 16x9!) when restored today to full-color
> frames looks like 3-strip Technicolor
I've seen quite a few frame blowups using this system. Interesting,
but you'd have to know what you're looking for since it was on black
and white stock. Kinemacolor has a tell-tale flicker to it. I bought
several Castle reels on 16mm and noticed this after a while and
physically stained alternating frames on my print until I got the
desired effect.
Another interesting 3-color additive process is Horst, which I have
not seen, but have seen pictures of. All three records are recorded
onto one 35mm frame and were projected out of one lens. It had a
"resolution" similar to 8mm, I'm guessing.
I'm still looking for 16mm Kinemacolor and Kodacolor films out there
if anyone is interested in selling...
-J. Theakston
Eric Grayson
wrote:
>christoph...@und.nodak.edu (Christopher Jacobs) wrote in message
>news:<e31bf3ae.03032...@posting.google.com>...
>> maybe put on a DVD with the surviving
>> Gaumont color footage from around 1912, whose simultaneously exposed
>> but adjacent frame 3-color process (and with about a 1.75:1 widescreen
>> aspect ratio, almost exactly 16x9!) when restored today to full-color
>> frames looks like 3-strip Technicolor
>
>I've seen quite a few frame blowups using this system. Interesting,
>but you'd have to know what you're looking for since it was on black
>and white stock.
In deference to Chris, yes, you DO have fringing on Gaumont color. The
footage of Archduke Ferdinand (or whoever that was) has noticeable fringing
in it. They are using a faster frame/exposure rate than Kinemacolor did
and it helps minimize the fringing process, but you do notice it.
Gaumont still showed itself to be 10 years ahead of anyone else in the
business though. I don't know how their projectors worked (if at all) but
their photography was pretty impressive.
Eric