Crack-and-Fail recall notice
Jason Byrnes
mitering of the down tubes of these frames resulting in the removal
of too much of the thickest, or "butted", portion of the downtube
during manufacture"
>If you own one of the following Cannondale bicycles, you must stop
>riding it immediately and contact your dealer:
>
>* 2002 Gemini 2000
>
>* 2002 Gemini 1000 * 2003 Gemini 2000 * 2003 Gemini 1000
>
>* 2003 Gemini 900
>
>In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (U.S.
>CPSC), Cannondale will recall some of these medium and large size
>frames. The U.S. CPSC will be monitoring the effectiveness of this
>recall.
>
>WARNING: Failure to observe this recall could result in frame
>failure. Such a failure would lead to loss of control and an accident
>with attendant risk of serious injury or death. Please cooperate with
>this recall.
>
>Please immediately check to see if you have one of these bicycles in
>size Medium or Large. If so, please bring your bicycle to your
>Authorized Cannondale retailer so that they may perform the recall
>frame check (please see both pages). Do not ride your bicycle until
>this frame check has been done.
>
>The nature of the problem is insufficient wall thickness in a
>critical section of the downtube of some medium and large Gemini
>frames due to a manufacturing error. This was caused by incorrect
>mitering of the down tubes of these frames resulting in the removal
>of too much of the thickest, or "butted", portion of the downtube
>during manufacture. Removing a large portion of this butted tubing
>leaves only thinner aluminum tubing at the headtube joint; weakening
>the frame in the area where the downtube and headtube are welded.
>This results in insufficient frame strength in this area and the risk
>of frame failure.
>
>We will resolve this recall quickly. Cannondale will provide a simple
>frame checking gauge to your retailer so that they may determine if
>you have an improperly manufactured Gemini frame. If your retailer
>discovers that you do have an improperly manufactured frame,
>Cannondale will provide a warranty frame.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>The Cannondale Corporation
--
~~~~~~~~~~
__o
_-\<,_ Jason Byrnes
(_)/ (_)
~~~~~~~~~~
derral
determined to take cheap shots at Cannondale. I have a couple of
Cannondales, a Trek, a Raleigh, a Diamondback, and Burley. No major
problems with any of them, is there something I'm missing? Just don't
understand why they are subject to post like this Anyone can make mistakes
in manufacturing, good companies fix their mistakes.
"Jason Byrnes" <jaso...@Tattbi.com> wrote in message
news:apmn3s$4d8$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
Carlos Colmenares
I was wondering the same thing. As long as it's not something that
happens constantly, the company is forthcoming and deals with the
problem in a proper way.
I have a feeling that this is just another case of people wanting to
bring down one of the leaders in the market.
Carlos
P e t e F a g e r l i n
news:3DBEECA...@mchsi.com...
| <Putting on my fire-proof lingerie>
|
| I was wondering the same thing. As long as it's not something that
| happens constantly, the company is forthcoming and deals with the
| problem in a proper way.
Define "constantly"
| I have a feeling that this is just another case of people wanting to
| bring down one of the leaders in the market.
Yeah, the people who use the term "crackandfail" must just be jealous of
crackandfail's leadership position in the MTB market...
--
Pete Fagerlin
http://www.petefagerlin.com
Sir F
> <Putting on my fire-proof lingerie>
>
> I was wondering the same thing. As long as it's not something that
> happens constantly, the company is forthcoming and deals with the
> problem in a proper way.
>
> I have a feeling that this is just another case of people wanting to
> bring down one of the leaders in the market.
Check their website. They have a nicely populated page DEVOTED to product
recalls: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/tech/recalls.html
-Mike-
Jason Byrnes
"derral" <didl...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:aRBv9.70031$Ju....@news2.central.cox.net...
> Not wanting to start anything, but I'm curious whay so many people are
> determined to take cheap shots at Cannondale.
I would'nt realy say I where "determined", the oppertunity just knocked and
I opened the door.
> I have a couple of
> Cannondales, a Trek, a Raleigh, a Diamondback, and Burley. No major
> problems with any of them, is there something I'm missing?
I also have a Cannondale, circa '85 road bike made back when they actrualy
made good frames. see, the problem with cannondale is that the growth
process took them from an excelent, small, North East bike manufacturer, to
large corporation. There realy arent many company's that have had that type
of growth and still mantained product integraty. Martin Guitars did, but
Fender did'nt. Same with Cannondale. Once thay started making their own
cranks and stems and the like it all went down hill.
> Just don't
> understand why they are subject to post like this Anyone can make
mistakes
> in manufacturing, good companies fix their mistakes.
True enough, but there is fixing your mistake and then repeating it, as
opposed to fixing, and learning from, your mistake. I'd rather a company
that does the latter, thank you.
Jason
Baxter
> happens constantly, the company is forthcoming and deals with the
> problem in a proper way.
>
> I have a feeling that this is just another case of people wanting to
> bring down one of the leaders in the market.
>
> Carlos
>
>
> derral wrote:
> > Not wanting to start anything, but I'm curious whay so many people are
> > determined to take cheap shots at Cannondale. I have a couple of
> > Cannondales, a Trek, a Raleigh, a Diamondback, and Burley. No major
> > problems with any of them, is there something I'm missing? Just don't
> > understand why they are subject to post like this Anyone can make
mistakes
> > in manufacturing, good companies fix their mistakes.
I think most of it is a kinda arrogance on Cannondale's part by always being
out of step w/industry standards. Their Coda components are compatible
w/just about nothing. Their forks, same thing. They are proprietary on
most parts that would be interchangeable w/other bike manufactures. Add to
that more than normal frame failures (even if covered by warranty) and
recalls, and you get a significant number of people who may not hate them
but would rather buy another make bike. Their market like a boutique bike
line but mass produce. Just my $.02
Greg
SoCalMike
> determined to take cheap shots at Cannondale. I have a couple of
> Cannondales, a Trek, a Raleigh, a Diamondback, and Burley. No major
> problems with any of them, is there something I'm missing? Just don't
> understand why they are subject to post like this Anyone can make
mistakes
> in manufacturing, good companies fix their mistakes.
and REAL good companies *learn* from their mistakes.
Michael Dart
"Baxter" <sle...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:QYFv9.2774$z5.19...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
>
> I think most of it is a kinda arrogance on Cannondale's part by always
being
> out of step w/industry standards. Their Coda components are compatible
> w/just about nothing. Their forks, same thing. They are proprietary on
> most parts that would be interchangeable w/other bike manufactures. Add
to
> that more than normal frame failures (even if covered by warranty) and
> recalls, and you get a significant number of people who may not hate them
> but would rather buy another make bike. Their market like a boutique bike
> line but mass produce. Just my $.02
>
> Greg
>
>
At the risk of getting the geeks going again it sounds like C-Dale is like
Apple.
Mike - I'm going to regret this aren't I.
derral
always trying new things will have more problems than those who sit and wait
for someone else to develope the technology and then copy it.
Wasn't Cannondale the leader in aluminum frame technology and that was where
most of the failures came from, don't know, just asking.
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5RGv9.3100$I_5.1216@rwcrnsc53...
SoCalMike
> Another way to look at it is that the manufacturing companies that are
> always trying new things will have more problems than those who sit and
wait
> for someone else to develope the technology and then copy it.
> Wasn't Cannondale the leader in aluminum frame technology and that was
where
> most of the failures came from, don't know, just asking.
then they should have it down right. you dont let paying customers be
beta-testers for potentially flawed product.
John Doe
stick. The dropout extended out from the part where the seat and chain
stays were welded together. Ah, the quality of Cannonwhale!
"Jason Byrnes" <jaso...@Tattbi.com> wrote in message
news:apmn3s$4d8$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
Shaun Rimmer
P e t e F a g e r l i n <pe...@petefagerlin.com> wrote in message
news:apmq8t$m...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> "Carlos Colmenares" <carlosco...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:3DBEECA...@mchsi.com...
> | <Putting on my fire-proof lingerie>
> |
> | I was wondering the same thing. As long as it's not something that
> | happens constantly, the company is forthcoming and deals with the
> | problem in a proper way.
>
> Define "constantly"
Well, since I been hangin' here (20 months), I've seen maybe 2 recall
notices, and stacks of reports and pictures of frame failures posted. That
must rule out the use of the word 'constantly', eh?
Shaun aRe - it's all hearsay and conjecture anyhow.
Reco Diver
> > happens constantly, the company is forthcoming and deals with the
> > problem in a proper way.
> >
> > I have a feeling that this is just another case of people wanting to
> > bring down one of the leaders in the market.
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> > derral wrote:
> > > Not wanting to start anything, but I'm curious whay so many people are
> > > determined to take cheap shots at Cannondale. I have a couple of
> > > Cannondales, a Trek, a Raleigh, a Diamondback, and Burley. No major
> > > problems with any of them, is there something I'm missing? Just don't
> > > understand why they are subject to post like this Anyone can make
> mistakes
> > > in manufacturing, good companies fix their mistakes.
>
>
> I think most of it is a kinda arrogance on Cannondale's part by always being
> out of step w/industry standards.
Industry standards? What industry standards?
> Their Coda components are compatible
> w/just about nothing.
God forbid a company try to be innovative, and not follow a supliers
trend.
> Their forks, same thing.
Any idea why they started out with that oversized headtube design?
> They are proprietary on
> most parts that would be interchangeable w/other bike manufactures.
True on a year to year basis I suppose.
> Add to
> that more than normal frame failures (even if covered by warranty)
Do you have a cite for that?
> and recalls,
After checking the archives at BRAIN it doesn't appear that Cannondale
has any more recalls than Trek or Specialized. They did have that
whole pepperoni fork recall, but the number of units involved was less
than the number of units involved in the OE Quadra recall.
> and you get a significant number of people who may not hate them
> but would rather buy another make bike.
Seems like most people hate them for the same reason that many people
love them: Weird proprietary designs. They have been that way from the
beginning and ever since the inclusion of magic motorcycle ... its
gotten worse (or better).
> Their market like a boutique bike line but mass produce.
Interesting marketing .... that and the "Made in the USA" thing.
Craig Brossman
news:Xns92B687BF0C1...@64.0.17.11...
knowledge, Cannondale has a lot of frames. I'm no Cannondale rider, my wife
has had one for 8 years and has been very happy with it. It is all in the
fit.
I was doing some research the other day regarding Mr. Fagerlin's issues with
Tony Ellsworth. I respect his opinion, something along the lines of "every
manufacturer has problems, it is how they deal with it which seperates the
good ones from the bad".
Pardon me if I grossly misquoted or took it out of context.
If Cannondale were as bad a bike as some claim, and we all know they are
roughly 20% more expensive than comperable bikes, I find it hard to believe
they would still be in business.
--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado
Jonathan Harris
>>I think most of it is a kinda arrogance on Cannondale's part by always being
>>out of step w/industry standards.
>
>
> Industry standards? What industry standards?
1 1/8" headsets, hubs with a pre-defined axle diameter (3/8" I think), 1
1/8" diameter steerer tubes and the resulting stems, etc, etc.
>
>
>>Their Coda components are compatible
>>w/just about nothing.
>
>
> God forbid a company try to be innovative, and not follow a supliers
> trend.
Innovative is one thing, down-right awkward, or, more cynically,
restricting customers to their own after-market products would be another.
>>Their forks, same thing.
>
>
> Any idea why they started out with that oversized headtube design?
Increased stiffness in the legs, I believe.
>>They are proprietary on
>>most parts that would be interchangeable w/other bike manufactures.
>
>
> True on a year to year basis I suppose.
Is that a hint of admission.
>>Add to
>>that more than normal frame failures (even if covered by warranty)
>
>
> Do you have a cite for that?
General experience of this group.
>>and recalls,
>
>
> After checking the archives at BRAIN it doesn't appear that Cannondale
> has any more recalls than Trek or Specialized. They did have that
> whole pepperoni fork recall, but the number of units involved was less
> than the number of units involved in the OE Quadra recall.
We've been through this before. In this group Cannondale has a
reputation for frames that crack. It's a reputation, and like it or
love it, people aren't going to change their opinions based on their own
experiences and those of fellow riders whose opinions they trust, unless
Cannondale radically change.
--
a.m-b FAQ: http://bombacommand.iwarp.com/ambfaq.htm
a.bmx FAQ: http://bombacommand.iwarp.com/bmx_faq.htm
Jonathan Harris
>
> Check their website. They have a nicely populated page DEVOTED to product
> recalls: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/tech/recalls.html
<not implying anything about Cannondale>
Are recalls a good indication of the overall strength of a firm's frames
/ components?
Just wondering, I've broken plenty of stuff that hasn't been in recalls.
Sir F
news:hwTv9.3457$KF3.140...@twister2.starband.net:
> "Sir F" <elan...@nospam.yeehaw.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns92B687BF0C1...@64.0.17.11...
<snip>
>> Check their website. They have a nicely populated page DEVOTED to
>> product recalls: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/tech/recalls.html
>>
>> -Mike-
> But a quick review only has 3 frame recalls, and to the best of my
> knowledge, Cannondale has a lot of frames. I'm no Cannondale rider, my
> wife has had one for 8 years and has been very happy with it. It is all
> in the fit.
True. But I have had problems finding any other major manufacturer
publishing recall information. Makes you wonder if Cannondale has more
issues or is simply more forthcoming with the mfgr problems they DO have.
-Mike-
Shaun Rimmer
Craig Brossman <craigb...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:hwTv9.3457$KF3.140...@twister2.starband.net...
Well, it could be because there are dumb fuckers in every consumer group.
Shaun aRe - just saying like........
Reco Diver
> >Reco Diver wrote:
> > Industry standards? What industry standards?
> 1 1/8" headsets, hubs with a pre-defined axle diameter (3/8" I think), 1
> 1/8" diameter steerer tubes and the resulting stems, etc, etc.
Given 1 1/8 is very common, but there is no standard. 1 1/8"was first
introduced by Tioga calling it the "Avenger" as alternative compromise
to the "standard" 1" and the Fisher Evolution 1 1/4" size, and we
can't forget Klein with the press fit system or the 1.5 system.
Consider that DBR and Cannondale were early (presuspension) proponents
of the "Avenger" system.
There is no standard!
Stem quill diameters 21.8mm (.833), 22.0mm, 22.2mm, 25.4mm,
28.6mmHandlebar ... Which one is the "standard". Handlebar standard
diameter? 22.2mm (7/8"), 25.4mm (1"), 26.0mm, 26.4mm ...
Aheadsets?
Dia Compe's introduced the Aheadset in 1992. Available in the
industry standard of 1, 1 1/8, 1 ź. Of course in 1992 Keith Bontrager
called the Aheadset "a solution to a problem that doesn't exist." He
also stated that the Aheadset "gives no mechanical or weight advantage
over a "standard" headset and stem arrangement. The first year it was
introduced, Control Tech was the only manufacturer that made a full
line of compatible ahead stems.
How about that industry standard Bottom Bracket design?
Dual Fixed Cup with a Fixed Spindle
Fixed drive cup adjustable non-drive cup and a fixed bearing width.
Internal shell - floating cups - fixed spindle
Fixed spindle with Dual adjustable cups
Dual Fixed Cup with Adjustable Spindle
Press fit Bearing, Adjustable spindle
Press fit Bearing, fixed spindle
Square taper spindle
Shimano Splined (another solution to a nonexistent problem).
ISIS Splined
Spindle length?
The Industry standrad chains?
Campagnolo: 6.8mm or 6.1mm
KMC MC Z9900 : 6.6mm
Rohloff SLT99 6.85mm
SRAM PC-89R Power Chain 6.9mm
Sedisport SC-30/40 CHAIN 7.29mm
Wippermann ConneX Width 6.2 or 6.8mm.
Axels?
Front axels 3/8, 9mm, 20mm (diameter) (skaxels?)
Rear axel 110mm, 126mm, 130mm, 135mm (Overlock width)
Cranks?
4 arm, 5 arm,
110/74, 94/56, 94/58,104/64 Bolt circle
Front Derailleur Top Swing/Bottom Swing, Top Pull/Bottom Pull (1 1/8,
1 ź , 1 3/8)
Rear Derailleur Rapid Rise? Traditional? 1:1 ESP?
Cables 1.1mm 1.2mm 1.4mm 2.0mm
Cable Housing (Compressionless) 3.6mm, 4mm, 5mm
>>>Their Coda components are compatible
>>>w/just about nothing.
> > God forbid a company try to be innovative, and not follow a supliers
> > trend.
> Innovative is one thing, down-right awkward, or, more cynically,
> restricting customers to their own after-market products would be
> another.
Shimano Cassettes with Hyper hype ramping? ESP derailleur systems?
Fisher's Evolution components, Ritchey's Low Q bottom Brackets and low
profile cranks (when the "standard" was 122.5).
>>>Their forks, same thing.
> > Any idea why they started out with that oversized headtube design?
> Increased stiffness in the legs, I believe.
Accentually, yes. The design was based on developing a suspension fork
that would have the lateral stiffness of a rigid fork.
>>>They are proprietary on
>>>most parts that would be interchangeable w/other bike manufactures.
> >True on a year to year basis I suppose.
> Is that a hint of admission.
Is that a question?
Actually it isn't an admission. On any given year many bicycles have
some inter-changeable parts. Fortunately there is no acknowledged
industry standard holding back innovation. If a design finds favor,
for mechanical advantage (slant parallelogram derailleur, Maede 1964),
marketing (U-brakes) or whatever, bicycle manufacturer pick up on it;
the next year the design maybe completely incompatible. Try to put
the parts from 2003 Specialized on a 1983 Specialized.
>>>Add to
>>>that more than normal frame failures (even if covered by warranty)
> > Do you have a cite for that?
> General experience of this group.
So it's opinion. Why not say so?
>>>and recalls,
> > After checking the archives at BRAIN it doesn't appear that Cannondale
> > has any more recalls than Trek or Specialized. They did have that
> > whole pepperoni fork recall, but the number of units involved was less
> > than the number of units involved in the OE Quadra recall.
> We've been through this before. In this group Cannondale has a
> reputation for frames that crack. It's a reputation, and like it or
> love it, people aren't going to change their opinions based on their own
> experiences and those of fellow riders whose opinions they trust,
There's the statement "In this group Cannondale has a reputation" So
why hide behind component incompatibility?
If someone can't look at a bicycle with 3 arm cranks, an enormous head
tube, and a single fork leg and not realize that those components are
not going to be interchangeable with Shimano rings, King headset or RS
forks, then they shouldn't be considering it.
> unless Cannondale radically change.
They do, Cannondale has come out with some of the most radical changes
in the in the industry over the past decade.
Small companies are often trying to come up with more innovative
designs, Koski's "switchblade" fork, KGB's socket dropout, WTB's
"Roller Cam" brakes (also a ramped tooth profile that aided in
shifting under load). It's good to see a large manufacturer, like
C'dale, that is willing to buck the trend.
BTW I don't own nor have I ever owned a Cannondale. Personally, I
think they are Aluminum cookie-cutter junk (with or without Pon),
marketed to Dew(tm) slammin' weekend warriors. But then again that
just my opinion.
tas38
shut your damn pie hole !! Why the hell do people, put others down for
buying some thing they never had. To me that is a dumb f*cker, I have
yet to hear many say. I had one and it was junk, if you have or had one
then call it what you want. But don't make dale owners, feel like they
are dumb. I never rode one, but I got a super V frame to build. And when
it is done, it will not have any dale parts on it. I'll be prude of the
bike, why because I built it and it is what I want.
Some dales are great bikes, the super V is one of the great frames. I'm
not saying most dales are great, and I'm not saying most are bad.
Because I don't know, I only know about the super V frame. And from what
I read, dale puts allot of junk parts on bikes. Unless of course you buy
the high end ones, witch is the same with allot of incs. They also use
odd size parts allot, witch is easy to work around with a little
research. Odd size parts could be a pain to replace, but if they are
junk most will upgrade them anyway. Then people have a choice, use the
odd size ones or adapt to normal size ones.
I guess I'll be getting flamed, for this post. But I'm right, so I don't
care. Everyone reading this post, will know I'm right and any flamers
will look bad. SO THERE HA HA !! :-)
tas38
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P e t e F a g e r l i n
news:3DC05F41...@usadatanet.net...
| Or it could be, others are the dumb f*ckers. If you never had a dale,
| shut your damn pie hole !!
So only people who have owned a crackandfail can comment on the quality of
their frames, their choice (for marketing reasons) to use proprietary
parts, or crackandfail frame failures?
Do you realize how absolutely stupid you sound?
|Why the hell do people, put others down for
| buying some thing they never had. To me that is a dumb f*cker, I have
| yet to hear many say. I had one and it was junk, if you have or had one
| then call it what you want. But don't make dale owners, feel like they
| are dumb.
Dood! It's apparent that you don't need anyone else to make you feel dumb.
You do a great job all by yourself.
| I never rode one, but I got a super V frame to build. And when
| it is done, it will not have any dale parts on it. I'll be prude of the
| bike, why because I built it and it is what I want.
If you've never ridden one, how can you know it is what you want? Do you
like the color or something?
| Some dales are great bikes, the super V is one of the great frames.
How do you know? (remember : " If you never had a dale, shut your damn pie
hole !!")
| Because I don't know, I only know about the super V frame.
How do you knwo if you've never ridden one?
| I guess I'll be getting flamed, for this post. But I'm right, so I don't
| care.
See above re: making yourself look dumb.
G.T.
--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late,
the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons
tas38
models, you are talking about. Every inc. has some bad frames, like the
GT I-drives did. My point was missed, when you read my post. Why should
anyone put people down, for buying some thing they never had. Do you
know how dumb that sounds, even if some one got a bad bike. And I knew
it for a fact, I would not put them down and try to make them feel bad.
I would say, some people had problems with that model. So my point is,
don't put down everyone just because they got a dale. And that goes 10X,
if that person putting people down never had one.
I got a dale, and I guess I should throw it out. Just because, you
people heard some of their frames failed and say I'm dumb. I should feel
really dumb, and really bad right ?
I was going to not put any dale marking, on my dale super V so people
wouldn't say. HA HA what a ass, he got a dale crackandfail. But I will
put them on it now, because when my dale super V proves. To be better
then their bikes, I'll be laughing last and longest.
HHHHmmm well ok, I can't out ride them because I'm not that good yet.
But my bike will be, a eye stopper and a great bike just the same.
tas38
G.T.
>
>
Since we're here in alt.MOUNTAIN-BIKE, some comments:
> Given 1 1/8 is very common, but there is no standard.
It is common enough that production mtn bike forks are pretty much
exclusively 1 1/8 except for the new 1.5s.
>
> Stem quill diameters 21.8mm (.833), 22.0mm, 22.2mm, 25.4mm,
> 28.6mmHandlebar ... Which one is the "standard". Handlebar standard
> diameter? 22.2mm (7/8"), 25.4mm (1"), 26.0mm, 26.4mm ...
>
Mountain bike handlebars pretty much only come in one size, 25.4mm, I believe.
> Aheadsets?
> Dia Compe's introduced the Aheadset in 1992. Available in the
> industry standard of 1, 1 1/8, 1 ź. Of course in 1992 Keith Bontrager
> called the Aheadset "a solution to a problem that doesn't exist." He
> also stated that the Aheadset "gives no mechanical or weight advantage
> over a "standard" headset and stem arrangement. The first year it was
> introduced, Control Tech was the only manufacturer that made a full
> line of compatible ahead stems.
Good example of innovation where it wasn't needed. Sounds like
Cannondale's disease.
>
> How about that industry standard Bottom Bracket design?
>
> Dual Fixed Cup with a Fixed Spindle
> Fixed drive cup adjustable non-drive cup and a fixed bearing width.
> Internal shell - floating cups - fixed spindle
> Fixed spindle with Dual adjustable cups
> Dual Fixed Cup with Adjustable Spindle
> Press fit Bearing, Adjustable spindle
> Press fit Bearing, fixed spindle
> Square taper spindle
> Shimano Splined (another solution to a nonexistent problem).
> ISIS Splined
> Spindle length?
>
Who the hell cares how the bb is mounted in the shell? The needs for a
standard are in the shell size and threading, which is close to being one
common size now; and how the cranks bolt onto the BB, one pretty common
method in the past, ISIS should be the standard in the future.
> The Industry standrad chains?
> Campagnolo: 6.8mm or 6.1mm
> KMC MC Z9900 : 6.6mm
> Rohloff SLT99 6.85mm
> SRAM PC-89R Power Chain 6.9mm
> Sedisport SC-30/40 CHAIN 7.29mm
> Wippermann ConneX Width 6.2 or 6.8mm.
>
Who cares?
> Axels?
> Front axels 3/8, 9mm, 20mm (diameter) (skaxels?)
9mm now. Maybe 20mm will have 100% of the market in the future.
> Rear axel 110mm, 126mm, 130mm, 135mm (Overlock width)
>
Oh come on, what mtn bike comes in 126mm these days?
> Cranks?
> 4 arm, 5 arm,
> 110/74, 94/56, 94/58,104/64 Bolt circle
Standardized on 4 arm 94/58 would be nice.
>
> Front Derailleur Top Swing/Bottom Swing, Top Pull/Bottom Pull (1 1/8,
> 1 ź , 1 3/8)
Who cares?
> Rear Derailleur Rapid Rise? Traditional? 1:1 ESP?
>
Traditional, of course.
> Cables 1.1mm 1.2mm 1.4mm 2.0mm
> Cable Housing (Compressionless) 3.6mm, 4mm, 5mm
>
Who cares?
>
> There's the statement "In this group Cannondale has a reputation" So
> why hide behind component incompatibility?
>
> If someone can't look at a bicycle with 3 arm cranks, an enormous head
> tube, and a single fork leg and not realize that those components are
> not going to be interchangeable with Shimano rings, King headset or RS
> forks, then they shouldn't be considering it.
>
Precisely why I'll never buy one.
>
>>unless Cannondale radically change.
>
>
> They do, Cannondale has come out with some of the most radical changes
> in the in the industry over the past decade.
>
> Small companies are often trying to come up with more innovative
> designs, Koski's "switchblade" fork,
You mean Tange's Switchblade rip-off of Bontrager's fork, or something else?
> KGB's socket dropout,
You mean Breezer dropouts?
> WTB's
> "Roller Cam" brakes (also a ramped tooth profile that aided in
> shifting under load). It's good to see a large manufacturer, like
> C'dale, that is willing to buck the trend.
>
Bucking the trend just to buck the trend is a waste of time.
Greg
Jonathan Bond
Jon "Commander" Bond
tas38
tas38
http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/bike_full/index_C.shtml
http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/bike_hardtail/index_C.shtml
http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/2002_full_suspension/index_C.shtml
http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/2002_hardtail/index_C.shtml
penny s
> But my bike will be, a eye stopper
that is definitely the most important reason to own a bike.
penny
John Doe
> recalls: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/tech/recalls.html
> -Mike-
Wow, If I didn't know any better, I'd say they're trying to catch up with
Ford. Seems Cannondale has a problem with carbon fiber, eh? And a problem
with forks. Heck, the whole dang company needs to be recalled.
Pete
> These people, own and have owned dale bikes.........
>
> tas38
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/bike_full/index_C.shtml
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/bike_hardtail/index_C.shtml
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/2002_full_suspension/index_C.shtml
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/2002_hardtail/index_C.shtml
>
MTBR = "I just spent my money on it, so it must be good"
If you're going to use a website for validation, please don't use mtbr.
Even the Walgoose D40 and a Pacific get above average ratings.
http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/bike_full/index_byname.shtml
You have to look long and hard to find any non-dept store bike, with more
than 3 reviews, that gets below a 3.
curiously, one of them was a 'dale...;)
Pete
(Pete Cresswell)
>but there is no standard.
Maybe so, but after cracking the frame on my "real" bike, I took the
c-dale that's been hanging in my garage for over a year out for a
20-some mile ride.
Next day, before starting out for the second ride I checked the
wheels. Four spokes broken in the rear one.
Just got done re-spoking the wheel with "real" spokes.
Not only were the factory spokes the cheesiest things I've ever seen,
they were even threaded differently from the "real" spokes - i.e. the
geniuses at Cannondale have managed to make even their nipples not fit
other spokes.
Add to that their 1.5-inch stems, 4-bolt disks and an orphan rear
shock, and I'd say the spirit of the "non-standard" accusation is
right on the money - irregardless of any legalistic arguments to the
contrary.
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell
Jonathan Harris
All thoroughly interesting, but you're sort of missing the point. All
of these components are designed by after-market manufacturers and fit
in what I will refer to as a 'standard' frame (with possibly the
exception of the 1" to 1 1/8" transition). Cannondale's frame and forks
prevent the use of other after-market products.
>>>>Their Coda components are compatible
>>>>w/just about nothing.
>>>
>
>
>>>God forbid a company try to be innovative, and not follow a supliers
>>>trend.
>>
>
>>Innovative is one thing, down-right awkward, or, more cynically,
>>restricting customers to their own after-market products would be
>>another.
>
>
> Shimano Cassettes with Hyper hype ramping? ESP derailleur systems?
You pays your money, you takes your choice between the two - anyway it's
only the rear shifter and rear mech that have to match.
> Actually it isn't an admission. On any given year many bicycles have
> some inter-changeable parts. Fortunately there is no acknowledged
> industry standard holding back innovation. If a design finds favor,
> for mechanical advantage (slant parallelogram derailleur, Maede 1964),
> marketing (U-brakes) or whatever, bicycle manufacturer pick up on it;
> the next year the design maybe completely incompatible. Try to put
> the parts from 2003 Specialized on a 1983 Specialized.
But you're talking about industry-wide changes, not some company going
off, doing their own thing and being totally incompatible with anything
else.
>>>>Add to
>>>>that more than normal frame failures (even if covered by warranty)
>>>
>
>
>>>Do you have a cite for that?
>>
>
>>General experience of this group.
>
>
> So it's opinion. Why not say so?
Go look up 'experience' and 'opinion' in the dictionary and then come
back with a sentence where you can interchange the two.
>>>>and recalls,
>>>
>
>>>After checking the archives at BRAIN it doesn't appear that Cannondale
>>>has any more recalls than Trek or Specialized. They did have that
>>>whole pepperoni fork recall, but the number of units involved was less
>>>than the number of units involved in the OE Quadra recall.
>>
>
>
>>We've been through this before. In this group Cannondale has a
>>reputation for frames that crack. It's a reputation, and like it or
>>love it, people aren't going to change their opinions based on their own
>>experiences and those of fellow riders whose opinions they trust,
>
>
> There's the statement "In this group Cannondale has a reputation" So
> why hide behind component incompatibility?
We're talking about two different things here. I wouldn't buy a
Cannondale for two reasons. Firstly, the incompatibility issue. And,
even if that weren't a factor, I wouldn't buy one because of the numbers
of riders here that have broken their frames.
> If someone can't look at a bicycle with 3 arm cranks, an enormous head
> tube, and a single fork leg and not realize that those components are
> not going to be interchangeable with Shimano rings, King headset or RS
> forks, then they shouldn't be considering it.
Exactly. Which is why I never have and never will buy or recommend a
Cannondale.
>>unless Cannondale radically change.
>
>
> They do, Cannondale has come out with some of the most radical changes
> in the in the industry over the past decade.
I meant 'and gain a reputation for producing frames that don't break'.
Don't snip out of context to suit your argument.
>
> Small companies are often trying to come up with more innovative
> designs, Koski's "switchblade" fork, KGB's socket dropout, WTB's
> "Roller Cam" brakes (also a ramped tooth profile that aided in
> shifting under load). It's good to see a large manufacturer, like
> C'dale, that is willing to buck the trend.
Maybe. However, name one proprietary product that Cannondale has
produced in the last 10 years that has been accepted across the industry.
> BTW I don't own nor have I ever owned a Cannondale. Personally, I
> think they are Aluminum cookie-cutter junk (with or without Pon),
> marketed to Dew(tm) slammin' weekend warriors. But then again that
> just my opinion.
?
Jonathan Harris
> These people, own and have owned dale bikes.........
>
> tas38
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/bike_full/index_C.shtml
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/bike_hardtail/index_C.shtml
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/2002_full_suspension/index_C.shtml
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/2002_hardtail/index_C.shtml
I'll let you off using mtbr as evidence, purely for this review:
http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/Bike_full/product_19269.shtml
Got a nasty surprise when I noticed that the seat tube on my $2000.00
C-dale was skewed to one side. C-dale replaced it with a 2nd bad frame.
This time the bottom bracket shell was off center, causing the rear
wheel (which was checked for proper dish) to be offset the same 3mm. I
tore down the bike and sent it to the factory a their request. Five
weeks later, they returned it stating that the frame was within their
specs and refused to replace it with a properly assembled frame. I have
since spoken with another local rider who had to send in his C-dale
frameset for a skewed seat tube after he wore out one side of his
$100.00 seat. His claim is still pending. It seems that Hand made in USA
means sloppy frame assembly to these folks. I've since sold my bike at a
substantial loss (I disclosed the frame problem to the buyer). Check
your present or future C-dale frameset carefully, or you could be
screwed too. Maybe their too busy making motorcycles to pay attention to
bike production and customers.
Jonathan Harris
> I guess I'll be getting flamed, for this post. But I'm right, so I don't
> care. Everyone reading this post, will know I'm right and any flamers
> will look bad. SO THERE HA HA !! :-)
Oh tas, you've just killed another kitten:
http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~spock/
Shaun Rimmer
> Shaun Rimmer wrote:
> >
> > Craig Brossman <craigb...@starband.net> wrote in message
> > news:hwTv9.3457$KF3.140...@twister2.starband.net...
> > > If Cannondale were as bad a bike as some claim, and we all know they
are
> > > roughly 20% more expensive than comperable bikes, I find it hard to
> > believe
> > > they would still be in business.
> >
> > Well, it could be because there are dumb fuckers in every consumer
group.
> >
> > Shaun aRe - just saying like........
> Or it could be, others are the dumb f*ckers.
<snipped a lot of inane run-on rambling shite>
> I guess I'll be getting flamed, for this post. But I'm right, so I don't
> care. Everyone reading this post, will know I'm right and any flamers
> will look bad. SO THERE HA HA !! :-)
>
> tas38
Is that 38 months old tas?
Can you even read? Do you know what a 'qualifier' is? (Hint: It's got
nothing to do with racing.)
You really ought to learn how to read and write properly before you try to
formulate a 'rant'. Why get so tetchy just because you may have bought a
shite frame?
And as to why people who've owned a CD don't often rag on them, well, it's
pride - they've just spent a lot of cash on it, and they don't want to look
dumb for doing so. The fact is, they wouldn't - it's quite the opposite.
',;~P``````
Shaun aRe - sheesh.......
derral
was to heavy. Seems they should know that before paying the money, or do
they somehow get heavier when the store price tag is removed?
"tas38" <ta...@usadatanet.net> wrote in message
news:3DC07851...@usadatanet.net...
Sir F
news:3DC070A7...@usadatanet.net:
<snip>
> I was going to not put any dale marking, on my dale super V so people
> wouldn't say. HA HA what a ass, he got a dale crackandfail. But I will
> put them on it now, because when my dale super V proves. To be better
> then their bikes, I'll be laughing last and longest.
Bwaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha. Yeah, like people could mistake THAT frame for
someone else's..... hehehehehehe.
-T.O.M.-
Sir F
news:3DC07851...@usadatanet.net:
> These people, own and have owned dale bikes.........
<snip>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/2002_hardtail/index_C.shtml
It's just like shooting fish in a barrel.
-T.O.M.-
Sir F
news:apqrih$5t9$1...@news.airtime.co.uk:
<snip>
> You really ought to learn how to read and write properly before you try
> to formulate a 'rant'.
<sigh> Sadly enough he is apparently incapable of writing properly.
-T.O.M.-
Reco Diver
> Reco Diver wrote:
> >
> >
>
> Since we're here in alt.MOUNTAIN-BIKE, some comments:
>
> > Given 1 1/8 is very common, but there is no standard.
>
> It is common enough that production mtn bike forks are pretty much
> exclusively 1 1/8 except for the new 1.5s.
And in 1989 it was exclusively 1", except for those new Avenger's and
a few Evol's
>
> >
> > Stem quill diameters 21.8mm (.833), 22.0mm, 22.2mm, 25.4mm,
> > 28.6mmHandlebar ... Which one is the "standard". Handlebar standard
> > diameter? 22.2mm (7/8"), 25.4mm (1"), 26.0mm, 26.4mm ...
> >
>
> Mountain bike handlebars pretty much only come in one size, 25.4mm, I believe.
And in the past it was 7/8 ( a hold over from the motorcycle
components being used), but 26.0 and even 26.4 have been used.
>
> > Aheadsets?
> > Dia Compe's introduced the Aheadset in 1992. Available in the
> > industry standard of 1, 1 1/8, 1 ź. Of course in 1992 Keith Bontrager
> > called the Aheadset "a solution to a problem that doesn't exist." He
> > also stated that the Aheadset "gives no mechanical or weight advantage
> > over a "standard" headset and stem arrangement. The first year it was
> > introduced, Control Tech was the only manufacturer that made a full
> > line of compatible ahead stems.
>
> Good example of innovation where it wasn't needed.
<snip>
Yep, just like Shimano's spline B.B.
>
> >
> > How about that industry standard Bottom Bracket design?
> >
> > Dual Fixed Cup with a Fixed Spindle
> > Fixed drive cup adjustable non-drive cup and a fixed bearing width.
> > Internal shell - floating cups - fixed spindle
> > Fixed spindle with Dual adjustable cups
> > Dual Fixed Cup with Adjustable Spindle
> > Press fit Bearing, Adjustable spindle
> > Press fit Bearing, fixed spindle
> > Square taper spindle
> > Shimano Splined (another solution to a nonexistent problem).
> > ISIS Splined
> > Spindle length?
> >
>
> Who the hell cares how the bb is mounted in the shell?
Cook Bro's, Ritchey, Fisher, Klein, Fat Chance .... all have had in
house designed B.B.'s at one time or another
> The needs for a
> standard are in the shell size and threading, which is close to being one
> common size now;
68 or 73? and what about spindle length?
> and how the cranks bolt onto the BB, one pretty common
> method in the past, ISIS should be the standard in the future.
Innovation ... a BB that is not compatible with older cranks, nor is
it compatible with the cranks from the (currently) largest maker of
mountain bike components.
> > The Industry standrad chains?
> > Campagnolo: 6.8mm or 6.1mm
> > KMC MC Z9900 : 6.6mm
> > Rohloff SLT99 6.85mm
> > SRAM PC-89R Power Chain 6.9mm
> > Sedisport SC-30/40 CHAIN 7.29mm
> > Wippermann ConneX Width 6.2 or 6.8mm.
> >
>
> Who cares?
Lots of people who are trying to mix 7, 8, and 9 speed components.
>
> > Axels?
> > Front axels 3/8, 9mm, 20mm (diameter) (skaxels?)
>
> 9mm now. Maybe 20mm will have 100% of the market in the future.
Isn't inovation grand.
>
> > Rear axel 110mm, 126mm, 130mm, 135mm (Overlock width)
> >
>
> Oh come on, what mtn bike comes in 126mm these days?
None that I know of, but it was "the standard." How long before
manufacturers start looking at 140/145mm spacing (builds a dishless
9sp wheel) or the Santana "standard", which allows for dishless 9sp
with a drum or rotor.
>
> > Cranks?
> > 4 arm, 5 arm,
> > 110/74, 94/56, 94/58,104/64 Bolt circle
>
> Standardized on 4 arm 94/58 would be nice.
That would be unusual.
>
> >
> > Front Derailleur Top Swing/Bottom Swing, Top Pull/Bottom Pull (1 1/8,
> > 1 ź , 1 3/8)
>
> Who cares?
Who ever is developing the standard.
>
> > Rear Derailleur Rapid Rise? Traditional? 1:1 ESP?
> >
>
> Traditional, of course.
Agreed
>
> > Cables 1.1mm 1.2mm 1.4mm 2.0mm
> > Cable Housing (Compressionless) 3.6mm, 4mm, 5mm
> >
>
> Who cares?
Anyone who has tried to put a 1.4 mm cable in housing designed for
1.1.
>
> >
> > There's the statement "In this group Cannondale has a reputation" So
> > why hide behind component incompatibility?
> >
> > If someone can't look at a bicycle with 3 arm cranks, an enormous head
> > tube, and a single fork leg and not realize that those components are
> > not going to be interchangeable with Shimano rings, King headset or RS
> > forks, then they shouldn't be considering it.
> >
>
> Precisely why I'll never buy one.
>
> >
> >>unless Cannondale radically change.
> >
> >
> > They do, Cannondale has come out with some of the most radical changes
> > in the in the industry over the past decade.
> >
> > Small companies are often trying to come up with more innovative
> > designs, Koski's "switchblade" fork,
>
> You mean Tange's Switchblade rip-off of Bontrager's fork, or something else?
Something else. The Koski DuraTrac Competition Fork, which was known
to many riders as a swithcblade or stiletto fork. His design changed
the way forks were being made upto that time. That was about the time
that Bontrager was producing his first couple of frames (frame three
was ~1983). At the time Koski's fork was being made Bontrager was
still doing $85.00 two color Imron fades in the backyard of his house
on Morrissey. BTW Tange bought the rights to the Switchblade(tm)
design ... about the time Bontrager moved his operation to Seabright.
>
> > KGB's socket dropout,
>
> You mean Breezer dropouts?
If they say Breezer on the outside they are Breezer. If they say
Ritchey, they are Ritchey socket dropouts, but the design goes to KGB.
Ask Otis Guy and he'll tell you that "KGB is responsible for more one
off designs than you can count." I was never really sure if he was
talking about (K)iller (G)reen (B)ud or the design group of Erik
(K)oski, Otis (G)uy, and Joe (B)reeze,
>
> > WTB's
> > "Roller Cam" brakes (also a ramped tooth profile that aided in
> > shifting under load). It's good to see a large manufacturer, like
> > C'dale, that is willing to buck the trend.
> >
>
> Bucking the trend just to buck the trend is a waste of time.
So is this thread ... but here we are ...
G.T.
> "G.T." <eth...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<5pZv9.1168$Qo5.97...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
>
>>Reco Diver wrote:
>>
<Snipped a bunch of different ways to put a bike together.>
One additional point I'll make is that in general most of the accepted
current sizes had an early consensus among manufacturers. That would
exclude those forced on us by Shimano or that are used by an individual
manufacturer like Cannondale.
And your comment about BB spindle length is an example of where choice is a
good thing, it gives more flexibility to frame builders. Shell width could
probably be standardized on 73mm.
>>>
>>>Small companies are often trying to come up with more innovative
>>>designs, Koski's "switchblade" fork,
>>
>>You mean Tange's Switchblade rip-off of Bontrager's fork, or something else?
>
>
> Something else. The Koski DuraTrac Competition Fork, which was known
> to many riders as a swithcblade or stiletto fork. His design changed
> the way forks were being made upto that time. That was about the time
> that Bontrager was producing his first couple of frames (frame three
> was ~1983). At the time Koski's fork was being made Bontrager was
> still doing $85.00 two color Imron fades in the backyard of his house
> on Morrissey. BTW Tange bought the rights to the Switchblade(tm)
> design ... about the time Bontrager moved his operation to Seabright.
>
Gotcha, and my favorite Koski fork was the Type II, I believe? Came out
around '86 and the design was standard equipment on several Bridgestones.
>>>KGB's socket dropout,
>>
>>You mean Breezer dropouts?
>
>
> If they say Breezer on the outside they are Breezer. If they say
> Ritchey, they are Ritchey socket dropouts, but the design goes to KGB.
> Ask Otis Guy and he'll tell you that "KGB is responsible for more one
> off designs than you can count." I was never really sure if he was
> talking about (K)iller (G)reen (B)ud or the design group of Erik
> (K)oski, Otis (G)uy, and Joe (B)reeze,
>
Thanks for the history lesson.
Reco Diver
<snip> Rant
> All thoroughly interesting, but you're sort of missing the point. All
> of these components are designed by after-market manufacturers
Not so fast, not all of those designs were made by after-market
manufacturers.
Some of them (press fit B.B's) were from frame designers. Most of the
rest were pushed by the major manufactures, like Shimano, Suntour, and
even Campagnolo.
> and fit in what I will refer to as a 'standard' frame (with possibly the
> exception of the 1" to 1 1/8" transition).
Shimano's V-Brake design forced frame makers to drop "noodle" and
"loop" cable guides. U- Brakes and Roller cams forced frame makers to
redesign cable guides and, use exclusive brake studs.
> Cannondale's frame and forks
> prevent the use of other after-market products.
<snip>
> > Actually it isn't an admission. On any given year many bicycles have
> > some inter-changeable parts. Fortunately there is no acknowledged
> > industry standard holding back innovation. If a design finds favor,
> > for mechanical advantage (slant parallelogram derailleur, Maede 1964),
> > marketing (U-brakes) or whatever, bicycle manufacturer pick up on it;
> > the next year the design maybe completely incompatible. Try to put
> > the parts from 2003 Specialized on a 1983 Specialized.
>
> But you're talking about industry-wide changes, not some company going
> off, doing their own thing and being totally incompatible with anything
> else.
In the begining SIS was incompatible with any other shifting system.
U-bakes, V-brakes, Roller cams, 135 spacing ... if the industry
follows, it's an "industry-wide change". If the industry doesn't
follow then you're .... probably working for C'dale.
>
> >>>>Add to
> >>>>that more than normal frame failures (even if covered by warranty)
> >>>
> >
> >
> >>>Do you have a cite for that?
> >>
>
> >>General experience of this group.
> >
> >
> > So it's opinion. Why not say so?
>
> Go look up 'experience' and 'opinion' in the dictionary and then come
> back with a sentence where you can interchange the two.
So it's not an opinion? It is either a fact or an opinion. The
"general experience of this group" (n =?) is that C'dales have more
than normal frame failure. The "group" gives no citation, and no hard
numbers, it is little more than a group derived opinion. Then again
opinion seems to drive the MTB market.
"opinions based on their own experiences and those of fellow riders
whose opinions they trust" Where did I hear this.....?
<snip>
> We're talking about two different things here. I wouldn't buy a
> Cannondale for two reasons. Firstly, the incompatibility issue. And,
> even if that weren't a factor, I wouldn't buy one because of the numbers
> of riders here that have broken their frames.
Good
> > If someone can't look at a bicycle with 3 arm cranks, an enormous head
> > tube, and a single fork leg and not realize that those components are
> > not going to be interchangeable with Shimano rings, King headset or RS
> > forks, then they shouldn't be considering it.
>
> Exactly. Which is why I never have and never will buy or recommend a
> Cannondale.
Agreed
>
> >>unless Cannondale radically change.
> >
> >
> > They do, Cannondale has come out with some of the most radical changes
> > in the in the industry over the past decade.
>
> I meant 'and gain a reputation for producing frames that don't break'.
> Don't snip out of context to suit your argument.
You had previously stated that it was two issues, incompatiblity and
frame failures. My answer was speaking to both these issues, because
they are inseparably related. Such things as their frame (failure
issues) and stem (incompatibility issues) designs are inseparably
linked to the adoption of the headshock system etc.
> > Small companies are often trying to come up with more innovative
> > designs, Koski's "switchblade" fork, KGB's socket dropout, WTB's
> > "Roller Cam" brakes (also a ramped tooth profile that aided in
> > shifting under load). It's good to see a large manufacturer, like
> > C'dale, that is willing to buck the trend.
>
> Maybe. However, name one proprietary product that Cannondale has
> produced in the last 10 years that has been accepted across the industry.
First production company to have suspension lock-out (late first
series Delta V's). Sure it used their proprietary headshock, but at
the time no other major player was offering on the fly lock-out. Their
lock-out design was more of an after thought, a remenant from the
headshock design, but it made the the rest of the suspension producers
consider the need (?) for lock-out.
Hollow/Composite cranks. Nobody was mass producing a Hollow/Composite
Crank until C'dale bought up Pon's Magic Motorcycle (Alex, designs and
all). Now several companies are producing Hollow/Composite cranks, and
not just at the extreme high end. (parts of that patent has expired)
2003 XTR Crank (particularly the BB): The axle and right hand crank
are one piece, with the lefthand crank attaching by a spline and pinch
set up. With this design there was very little space for bearings
between a standard bottombracket shell and an oversized axle. Shimano
has gone round this problem by mounting the bearings outboard of the
bottom bracket shell, just like the C'dale Magic Motorcycle cranks of
the early 90's. (that patent has expired)
> > BTW I don't own nor have I ever owned a Cannondale. Personally, I
> > think they are Aluminum cookie-cutter junk (with or without Pon),
> > marketed to Dew(tm) slammin' weekend warriors. But then again that
> > just my opinion.
>
> ?
There are often differences between facts and opinions; not always,
but often.
Reco Diver
> RE/
> >but there is no standard.
>
> Maybe so, but after cracking the frame on my "real" bike, I took the
> c-dale that's been hanging in my garage for over a year out for a
> 20-some mile ride.
>
> Next day, before starting out for the second ride I checked the
> wheels. Four spokes broken in the rear one.
>
> Just got done re-spoking the wheel with "real" spokes.
Interesting, what was the headstamp on the old spoke.
>
> Not only were the factory spokes the cheesiest things I've ever seen,
> they were even threaded differently from the "real" spokes - i.e. the
> geniuses at Cannondale have managed to make even their nipples not fit
> other spokes.
One of the selling points for C'dale (too shops not consumers) use to
be that they spec'd one brand of spokes throughout their line high end
to low end.
> Add to that their 1.5-inch stems, 4-bolt disks and an orphan rear
> shock, and I'd say the spirit of the "non-standard" accusation is
> right on the money - irregardless of any legalistic arguments to the
> contrary.
Absolutely. C'dale has always been strange, funny that they didn't buy
into spline drive spokes.
But talk about proprietary ... a couple of years ago this guy Ritchey,
comes out with a 9 speed cogset. I kid you not... we were all happily
running 8 and this guy has the balls to bring out this one off system.
What the hell was he thinking? To get 9sp you had to buy his extra cog
and spacer, and it would only work with a shifter that he sourced.
What a wacko .... Glad industry straightened him out. ;-)
G.T.
> "(Pete Cresswell)" <x@y.z> wrote in message news:<s6v0suo5bso89bn93...@4ax.com>...
>
>
>>shock, and I'd say the spirit of the "non-standard" accusation is
>>right on the money - irregardless of any legalistic arguments to the
>>contrary.
>
>
> Absolutely. C'dale has always been strange, funny that they didn't buy
> into spline drive spokes.
>
> But talk about proprietary ... a couple of years ago this guy Ritchey,
> comes out with a 9 speed cogset. I kid you not... we were all happily
> running 8 and this guy has the balls to bring out this one off system.
> What the hell was he thinking? To get 9sp you had to buy his extra cog
> and spacer, and it would only work with a shifter that he sourced.
> What a wacko .... Glad industry straightened him out. ;-)
Here's my take on Cannondale. Hopefully I'll get my point across. Using
the 9 spd example (for argument's sake as I still think 9 spd sucks) I
would say that anyone who advocates a change like this is contributing to
the evolution of our equipment. The thing that Cannondale does is that
when new technologies come along they implement their own bizarre versions.
In the case of 9 speed I'm surprised that they didn't come out with their
own pre-built rear wheel with a non-removable cassette that only works with
their own funky rear derailer, shifter and chains. That's the kind of
lameass stuff that they do. Different for different's sake, and of no
benefit to the consumer.
SoCalMike
> In the case of 9 speed I'm surprised that they didn't come out with
their
> own pre-built rear wheel with a non-removable cassette that only works
with
> their own funky rear derailer, shifter and chains. That's the kind of
> lameass stuff that they do. Different for different's sake, and of no
> benefit to the consumer.
you sure apple doesnt own stock in them? hehe...
(Pete Cresswell)
>you sure apple doesnt own stock in them? hehe...
Oooooh! Some major trolling potential here...
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell
P e t e F a g e r l i n
| HHHHHmmm so every dale has a crackandfail frame right ? State what
| models, you are talking about.
Pick one. Jekyls, Super Vs, hardtails, etc.
Why are you asking me since you claim that only people who have
crackandfails should be able to cmment on them?
Every inc. has some bad frames, like the
| GT I-drives did. My point was missed, when you read my post. Why should
| anyone put people down, for buying some thing they never had. Do you
| know how dumb that sounds, even if some one got a bad bike. And I knew
| it for a fact, I would not put them down and try to make them feel bad.
| I would say, some people had problems with that model. So my point is,
| don't put down everyone just because they got a dale. And that goes 10X,
| if that person putting people down never had one.
Your point is classic weaksauce.|
I'm slamming the silly shit that you're writing. DO you realize how stupid
it is to claim that a bike is "the best," when you haven't even ridden it,
let alone have built it up?
| I got a dale, and I guess I should throw it out. Just because, you
| people heard some of their frames failed and say I'm dumb. I should feel
| really dumb, and really bad right ?
It seesm that you're a classic case of someone who has their self-worth
tied up in their material possessions. That is very sad.
|| I was going to not put any dale marking, on my dale super V so people
| wouldn't say. HA HA what a ass, he got a dale crackandfail. But I will
| put them on it now, because when my dale super V proves. To be better
| then their bikes, I'll be laughing last and longest.
Wow. Do you realize how sad that paragraph was? Are you 10 years old?
| HHHHmmm well ok, I can't out ride them because I'm not that good yet.
| But my bike will be, a eye stopper and a great bike just the same.
"eye stopper"? LOL.
Jeffrey Spahn
"P e t e F a g e r l i n" <pe...@petefagerlin.com> wrote in message
news:aq6gm9$m...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> "tas38" <ta...@usadatanet.net> wrote in message
> news:3DC070A7...@usadatanet.net...
> | HHHHHmmm so every dale has a crackandfail frame right ? State what
> | models, you are talking about.
>
> Pick one. Jekyls, Super Vs, hardtails, etc.
>
Let's see. I had a Super V700, Super V2000, a Jekyl 900SL and now have a
Scalpel Team. 4 bikes, 0 cracked frames. Must be doing something wrong.
185#, 6' tall. Race in Expert Class on average 15 or so races a year plus
all the training miles and fun rides. Boy those Cannondales must be junk,
look at all the problems I have had.
Come to think of it, haven't had any problems with my Trek 5200 either, but
that's a different group.
Now, my Kyosho Nexus 46, that 's another story.
Jeffrey Spahn
Sir F
news:3dc6...@news.splitrock.net:
<snip>
> Let's see. I had a Super V700, Super V2000, a Jekyl 900SL and now have
> a Scalpel Team. 4 bikes, 0 cracked frames. Must be doing something
Hmmmm... and I haven't broken my Trek Y frame. Shall I claim that those
didn't have a breakage problem?
-T.O.M.-
Jeffrey Spahn
According to the Trek rep that visits our LBS, the majority of "cracks" in
the Trek Y bikes were nothing more than stress cracks in the paint of the
bikes. The factory informed us that you could basically do anything short
of driving a truck over this frame before you broke it. I sold a Trek Y
Five-O bike to a guy on ebay. He claimed I sold him a cracked bike and got
it warrantied by the factory. We had the Trek rep call the factory and they
said there was nothing wrong with the frame, stress cracks in the paint.
Now they have a rare frame (the five-o was a very limited run like 4000 or
something, painted by Harley Davidson) back at their shop probably somewhere
safe.
Now, you may have broken yours. As has been stated before, no bike company
makes every bike perfect.
Jeffrey Spahn
P e t e F a g e r l i n
news:3dc6...@news.splitrock.net...
<snip>
| Let's see. I had a Super V700, Super V2000, a Jekyl 900SL and now have a
| Scalpel Team. 4 bikes, 0 cracked frames. Must be doing something wrong.
| 185#, 6' tall. Race in Expert Class on average 15 or so races a year
plus
| all the training miles and fun rides. Boy those Cannondales must be
junk,
| look at all the problems I have had.
A sample of one is valid?
I'm surprised that a blind brand loyalist hasn't used the "look at their
race team" bit yet...
Jeffrey Spahn
Yep, I'm a blind brand loyalist, Three Treks, A Cannondale and a DaVinci
Tandem. That is pretty brand loyal. Guess I won't be getting that Moots
YBB now since isn't one of the above mentioned.
Try again.
Jeffrey Spahn
ClydesdaleMTB
A riding bud, and Captin of the local SoBe/Cannondale team, (
http://goodalesbikeshop.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=71 )
cracked his new-this-season "team issue" frame at the BB-chainstay weld,
after only 6 (EFTA) races this season.
Fow several months I was telling/warning him "just wait and see" while
he discounted my rantings. I guess I got the last laugh.... though he
finished the season cooking the competition on his Surly.
P e t e F a g e r l i n
<snip>
| > A sample of one is valid?
| >
| > I'm surprised that a blind brand loyalist hasn't used the "look at
their
| > race team" bit yet...
| >
| > --
| > Pete Fagerlin
| > http://www.petefagerlin.com
| >
|
| Yep, I'm a blind brand loyalist, Three Treks, A Cannondale and a DaVinci
| Tandem. That is pretty brand loyal. Guess I won't be getting that Moots
| YBB now since isn't one of the above mentioned.
|
| Try again.
Perhaps you should follow your own advice. Where did I write that you're a
blind brand loyalist?
While you're at it, answer my question re: a sample of one.
Best of luck.
Jeffrey Spahn
F a g e r l i n" <pe...@petefagerlin.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
> Perhaps you should follow your own advice. Where did I write that you're a
> blind brand loyalist?
>
> While you're at it, answer my question re: a sample of one.
>
> Best of luck.
>
>
> --
> Pete Fagerlin
> http://www.petefagerlin.com
>
>
Um Pete, that would be a sample of four. One each of two models and two of
one (the super V700 and 2000 use the same frame). Four bikes, one company
do not make a sample of one. My statement is true whether I had four bikes
or four people had one each.
Your statement about blind brand loyalty following my post can be read as
inferring that I am a blind brand loyalist. Then again, you can say you
weren't and there is no way to prove either way.
In the end, I really don't care.
And I don't need luck.
Jeffrey Spahn
P e t e F a g e r l i n
news:B9EC5CE9.898F%jspa...@4spahnandrose.com...
LOL. You "don't care" yet continue to reply. That's a good one!
| And I don't need luck.
Apparently you do, since you are having trouble with a very simple phrase
like "I'm surprised that a blind brand loyalist..."
Good luck!
Jeffrey Spahn
As I said, I really don't care. It's something to do when I'm bored waiting
for dinner to cook or a file to compile or something else to waste my time.
If it actually had something to do with Mountain Biking it worth spending
something more than down time pursuing.
Like now, I'm bored waiting for some epoxy to cure on my fish tank hood.
This is at least more fun than watching T.V.
But hey, if you want to think it's something more than that, be my guest and
get your undies in a bundle.
I'll keep responding if you want, just might take a while to get some free
time. Some of your comments are almost as fun to read as Mikey's.
Jeffrey Spahn
P e t e F a g e r l i n
<snip>
| > Apparently you do, since you are having trouble with a very simple
phrase
| > like "I'm surprised that a blind brand loyalist..."
| >
|
| As I said, I really don't care.
<snip more inane protestations>
Your posts prove otherwise but that's ok.
Please continue.
Nicholas & Domino
the issue should be if the company at fault fixes the problem - ie -
replaces the frame
nick
"P e t e F a g e r l i n" <pe...@petefagerlin.com> wrote in message
news:q4Ix9.1657$yN4.12...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Kathleen
> who cares if it cracks - everything will fail if pushed hard enough
> the issue should be if the company at fault fixes the problem - ie -
> replaces the frame
Spoken like a person who's never had to do without his bike due to
warranty hassles.
Kathleen
Jonathan Harris
Spoken like a person that doesn't know what they're talking about. If
you push something that hard, is it the company at fault?
--
a.m-b FAQ: http://bombacommand.iwarp.com/ambfaq.htm
a.bmx FAQ: http://bombacommand.iwarp.com/bmx_faq.htm
Nicholas & Domino
several broken bikes - not always my fault
Cannondale have looked after me within a week each time
Ask my mate whose been without his GT for over six months.....
No the company is not always at fault
this is usenet - I gave a simple generic answer
sheesh - some people need to get out and ride more
nick
"Jonathan Harris" <myar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3DC8D455...@hotmail.com...
Jonathan Harris
> haha
>
> several broken bikes - not always my fault
> Cannondale have looked after me within a week each time
> Ask my mate whose been without his GT for over six months.....
>
> No the company is not always at fault
> this is usenet - I gave a simple generic answer
Ok, I was just pointing out that in many cases, abuse is not covered by
warranty (I've had frames replaced that really shouldn't have been).
>
> sheesh - some people need to get out and ride more
Too true, it's over a month since I was last on a bike...