ANOTHER Death Threat from a Typical Mountain Biker

[Mike Vandeman]

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Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lisa LaScala <lasc...@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Lisa LaScala <lasc...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mountain Biking in the East Bay Regional Parks
To: Mike Vandeman <mjv...@pacbell.net>


Mike,
Share the trails. I have heard you have assaulted a mountain biker. That is so wrong. You have no credibility. Everyone should be able to enjoy the trails as they are not just yours. I am a female mountain biker. I ride. I enjoy it and I always will and you can never change that because you are irrational and uneducated. But should you ever make an attempt to threaten me on the trails, and if I ever see you on a trail and you try to put your hands on me like you have towards others, l will rip your head off and crush it with my bike.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Vandeman <mjv...@pacbell.net>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 8:44 AM
Subject: Mountain Biking in the East Bay Regional Parks


To the Editor:

Since the Park District is revising its Master Plan, now is the perfect time (by 10/31 at http://ebrpdmasterplan.org/) to ask them to get mountain biking out of the parks! Mountain bikes, with their "aggressive" knobby tires and high speed, grind the trails into powder, which washes away in the first rain, leaving V-shaped ruts and degraded creeks and other habitat. Even the mountain bikers themselves, with rare candor, use the term "shredding the trails" to refer to mountain biking.

Countless insects, lizards, snakes, and other small plants and animals are killed by these "wheeled locusts". Hikers and equestrians are abandoning the trails and the parks, because it is unpleasant and dangerous to have to constantly be on the alert to avoid being hit by a biker coming around a blind turn at high speed. Illegal biking and even illegal trail-building are common in the parks.

It's beyond me to understand why mountain bikers insist on biking in the parks, when walking provides the best way to actually see the parks. Careening through them at high speed -- or even low speed -- doesn't allow one to actually see anything, since you have to give all of your attention to controlling your bike on unpredictable terrain.

It's high time that we restricted bikes to paved roads, where they can't do much harm!

Sincerely yours,

Fed up with mountain biking

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat").
Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://mjvande.nfshost.com

[Blackblade]

"But should you ever make an attempt to threaten me on the trails, and if I ever see you on a trail and you try to put your hands on me like you have towards others, l will rip your head off and crush it with my bike." - anonymous author reposted by M J Vandeman

Oh Mike; that is not a death threat. She is only threatening to take retaliatory action if assaulted. Provided you leave that individual alone she is no threat to you. If you assault her then you know the consequences ... and she would be entitled to do so in law.

[Mike Vandeman]

On Monday, October 29, 2012 11:29:57 AM UTC-7, Blackblade wrote:
> "But should you ever make an attempt to threaten me on the trails, and if I ever see you on a trail and you try to put your hands on me like you have towards others, l will rip your head off and crush it with my bike." - anonymous author reposted by M J Vandeman Oh Mike; that is not a death threat. She is only threatening to take retaliatory action if assaulted. Provided you leave that individual alone she is no threat to you. If you assault her then you know the consequences ... and she would be entitled to do so in law.

It's a threat. That's against the law -- but nothing new, for mountain bikers. They have an outlaw lifestyle.

[Blackblade]

Stating that you will defend yourself vigorously IF ATTACKED is not a threat and is 100% legal since you have a right of self defence.

Perhaps your lack of understanding contributed to you committing battery ?

[Mike Vandeman]

She didn't say "if attacked", LIAR. She said "if [I] put my hands on her", so her response is disproportionate to the alleged threat, which is all based on a lie, anyway. I have never "attacked" anyone. And I didn't commit battery. The mountain biker ran into ME, so HE committed battery. DUH!

[Blackblade]

If you put your hands on her then that is battery ... which is an attack and against which she is perfectly entitled to defend herself. Do you really think you can go around putting your hands on people ??? That is exactly what I meant when I said you just don't get it ... you, as a private citizen, are NOT PERMITTED to assualt members of the public just because they are doing something you don't like. It IS a criminal offence.

And, yes, you DID commit battery ... that is exactly the charge on which the court found you guilty and to which, despite whingeing incessantly on the point, you have never provided any contrary objective evidence that would lead anyone to believe that a miscarriage of justice had occurred.

[Mike Vandeman]

On Saturday, November 3, 2012 3:10:33 AM UTC-7, Blackblade wrote:
> On Thursday, November 1, 2012 12:11:05 PM UTC, Mike Vandeman wrote:
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> > On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:40:57 AM UTC-7, Blackblade wrote:
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> > > On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:20:00 PM UTC, Mike Vandeman wrote:
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> > > > On Monday, October 29, 2012 11:29:57 AM UTC-7, Blackblade wrote:
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> > > > > "But should you ever make an attempt to threaten me on the trails, and if I ever see you on a trail and you try to put your hands on me like you have towards others, l will rip your head off and crush it with my bike." - anonymous author reposted by M J Vandeman Oh Mike; that is not a death threat. She is only threatening to take retaliatory action if assaulted. Provided you leave that individual alone she is no threat to you. If you assault her then you know the consequences ... and she would be entitled to do so in law.
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> > > > It's a threat. That's against the law -- but nothing new, for mountain bikers. They have an outlaw lifestyle.
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> > > Stating that you will defend yourself vigorously IF ATTACKED is not a threat and is 100% legal since you have a right of self defence.
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> > > Perhaps your lack of understanding contributed to you committing battery ?
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> > She didn't say "if attacked", LIAR. She said "if [I] put my hands on her", so her response is disproportionate to the alleged threat, which is all based on a lie, anyway. I have never "attacked" anyone. And I didn't commit battery. The mountain biker ran into ME, so HE committed battery. DUH!
>
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> If you put your hands on her then that is battery ... which is an attack and against which she is perfectly entitled to defend herself.

Homicide is not a justified/legal response to battery. DUH! I don't know why you still keep talking, when you can't prove a single point.

Do you really think you can go around putting your hands on people ??? That is exactly what I meant when I said you just don't get it ... you, as a private citizen, are NOT PERMITTED to assualt members of the public just because they are doing something you don't like. It IS a criminal offence.
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> And, yes, you DID commit battery

BS. You don't know what happened, nor did the jury. So you are LYING again (claiming to know more than you really know).

> ... that is exactly the charge on which the court found you guilty and to which, despite whingeing incessantly on the point, you have never provided any contrary objective evidence that would lead anyone to believe that a miscarriage of justice had occurred.

Yes, I have, several times. You just refuse to accept it, because you don't want to.

[Blackblade]

> > > > Stating that you will defend yourself vigorously IF ATTACKED is not a threat and is 100% legal since you have a right of self defence.
> > > > Perhaps your lack of understanding contributed to you committing battery ?

> > > She didn't say "if attacked", LIAR. She said "if [I] put my hands on her", so her response is disproportionate to the alleged threat, which is all based on a lie, anyway. I have never "attacked" anyone. And I didn't commit battery. The mountain biker ran into ME, so HE committed battery. DUH!
>
> > If you put your hands on her then that is battery ... which is an attack and against which she is perfectly entitled to defend herself.
>
> Homicide is not a justified/legal response to battery. DUH! I don't know why you still keep talking, when you can't prove a single point.

Actually, it usually is ... but does depend on the circumstances. Essentially, if you institute an attack then the victim is entitled to defend themselves. If, in such defence, you end up dead then that would normally not be grounds for homicide. If you start something then you have to live (or die) by the consquences.

We can joust on the technicalities all day. However, the reality of the situation is that there is no "credible threat to your life" and therefore this is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a death threat. You're just trolling again ... grow up.

And, interestingly, I note that you don't notice the parallel with your own situation. Your response to a misdemeanour/civil matter was completely disproportionate and lead to you committing battery.

[Mike Vandeman]

You sure are a glutton for punishment! First, homicide is not a justifiable response to touching, so stop pretending that it is.

Second, you have no idea what actually happened (I do, since I was there), so you are LYING when you pretend to know. That's nothing new for mountain bikers. "Liar" is their middle name. You prove that every single time you open your mouth. What's a mystery is why you keep doing it, no matter how many times you are refuted and shown to be a fool. Are you a masochist, too?

[Blackblade]

> You sure are a glutton for punishment! First, homicide is not a justifiable response to touching, so stop pretending that it is.

No-one really threatened you with homicide either ... so stop pretending that they did !

>
> Second, you have no idea what actually happened (I do, since I was there), so you are LYING when you pretend to know. That's nothing new for mountain bikers. "Liar" is their middle name. You prove that every single time you open your mouth. What's a mystery is why you keep doing it, no matter how many times you are refuted and shown to be a fool. Are you a masochist, too?

Well, since you posted probably rather more than you intended in a parallel thread <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.mountain-bike/g6-looFBysM/nYQ7Q36X8akJ"> Here </a> I guess you might want to reconsider your statement. You provided prima facie evidence of your own guilt !

And, to date, I can't think of a single refutation that would be adjudged as such by anyone other than you. Your logic seems to run to "I say it is so ... therefore it is so ... QED".

Since this doesn't usually suffice for anyone else I would hesitate to claim victory so presumptiously. Perhaps we should invite votes as to the outcome ... or, perhaps, appoint a jury to adjudge the result ???? :-) :-)

Oh, no, sorry, forgot that you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want !

[Mike Vandeman]

On Friday, November 9, 2012 2:36:19 AM UTC-8, Blackblade wrote:
> > You sure are a glutton for punishment! First, homicide is not a justifiable response to touching, so stop pretending that it is.
>
>
>
> No-one really threatened you with homicide either ... so stop pretending that they did !

"I will rip your head off and crush it with my bike". Your lies are SOOO easy to refute!

> > Second, you have no idea what actually happened (I do, since I was there), so you are LYING when you pretend to know. That's nothing new for mountain bikers. "Liar" is their middle name. You prove that every single time you open your mouth. What's a mystery is why you keep doing it, no matter how many times you are refuted and shown to be a fool. Are you a masochist, too?
>
>
>
> Well, since you posted probably rather more than you intended in a parallel thread <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.mountain-bike/g6-looFBysM/nYQ7Q36X8akJ"> Here </a> I guess you might want to reconsider your statement. You provided prima facie evidence of your own guilt !

BS. Refuted again. Without specifics, we must assume you are bluffing. AGAIN.

> And, to date, I can't think of a single refutation that would be adjudged as such by anyone other than you. Your logic seems to run to "I say it is so ... therefore it is so ... QED".
>
>
>
> Since this doesn't usually suffice for anyone else I would hesitate to claim victory so presumptiously. Perhaps we should invite votes as to the outcome ... or, perhaps, appoint a jury to adjudge the result ???? :-) :-)
>
>
>
> Oh, no, sorry, forgot that you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want !

Liar. You now stoop to pure fantasy. NO judge or jury can be accurate, since they really don't know the facts. But you (and everyone else) already knew that, liar.

[Blackblade]

> > No-one really threatened you with homicide either ... so stop pretending that they did !
>
> "I will rip your head off and crush it with my bike". Your lies are SOOO easy to refute!

Oh yes ? The legal offense is actually one of 'Coercion' ... you have not been coerced to do anything that you might otherwise have done nor refrain from doing something to which you are legally entitled. You are NOT legally entitled to lay hands on (assault) this individual. If you don't believe me take it to the police ... they take real death threats very seriously.

And, as ever, you resort to accusing everyone of lying. Where ? Idiot.

> > > Second, you have no idea what actually happened (I do, since I was there), so you are LYING when you pretend to know. That's nothing new for mountain bikers. "Liar" is their middle name. You prove that every single time you open your mouth. What's a mystery is why you keep doing it, no matter how many times you are refuted and shown to be a fool. Are you a masochist, too?
>
> > Well, since you posted probably rather more than you intended in a parallel thread <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.mountain-bike/g6-looFBysM/nYQ7Q36X8akJ"> Here </a> I guess you might want to reconsider your statement. You provided prima facie evidence of your own guilt !
>
>
>
> BS. Refuted again. Without specifics, we must assume you are bluffing. AGAIN.

The specifics are in the other thread, which I have referenced, where is your refutation ? "BS" is not a refutation.

For a supposedly smart guy skilled in maths and logic you fail on the most basic of logical operands.

> > Since this doesn't usually suffice for anyone else I would hesitate to claim victory so presumptiously. Perhaps we should invite votes as to the outcome ... or, perhaps, appoint a jury to adjudge the result ???? :-) :-)
>
> > Oh, no, sorry, forgot that you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want !
>
> Liar. You now stoop to pure fantasy. NO judge or jury can be accurate, since they really don't know the facts. But you (and everyone else) already knew that, liar.

Where is the lie Mike ? I am simply pointing out that whilst you might claim victory in your own mind I strongly suspect that an impartial group viewing this thread might not agree with that. Didn't realise you were so touchy about the word 'jury' :-)

Your approach to debate appears to be ... throw out ludicrous proposition ... provide zero back-up beyond 'I say so' when challenged ... then claim victory in the subsequent debate irrespective of having your head handed to you on a plate.

[Mike Vandeman]

On Friday, November 9, 2012 4:35:01 AM UTC-8, Blackblade wrote:
> > > No-one really threatened you with homicide either ... so stop pretending that they did !
>
> >
>
> > "I will rip your head off and crush it with my bike". Your lies are SOOO easy to refute!
>
>
>
> Oh yes ? The legal offense is actually one of 'Coercion' ... you have not been coerced to do anything that you might otherwise have done nor refrain from doing something to which you are legally entitled. You are NOT legally entitled to lay hands on (assault) this individual. If you don't believe me take it to the police ... they take real death threats very seriously.

You make no sense. Threatening homicide is against the law. Why is that so hard for you to admit??? Because a mountain biker did it? That's dishonest.

> And, as ever, you resort to accusing everyone of lying. Where ? Idiot.
>
>
>
> > > > Second, you have no idea what actually happened (I do, since I was there), so you are LYING when you pretend to know. That's nothing new for mountain bikers. "Liar" is their middle name. You prove that every single time you open your mouth. What's a mystery is why you keep doing it, no matter how many times you are refuted and shown to be a fool. Are you a masochist, too?
>
> >
>
> > > Well, since you posted probably rather more than you intended in a parallel thread <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.mountain-bike/g6-looFBysM/nYQ7Q36X8akJ"> Here </a> I guess you might want to reconsider your statement. You provided prima facie evidence of your own guilt !
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
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> > BS. Refuted again. Without specifics, we must assume you are bluffing. AGAIN.
>
>
>
> The specifics are in the other thread, which I have referenced, where is your refutation ? "BS" is not a refutation.

"In the other thread" is not specific enough to know what you are talking about, as you well know.

> For a supposedly smart guy skilled in maths and logic you fail on the most basic of logical operands.
>
>
>
> > > Since this doesn't usually suffice for anyone else I would hesitate to claim victory so presumptiously. Perhaps we should invite votes as to the outcome ... or, perhaps, appoint a jury to adjudge the result ???? :-) :-)
>
> >
>
> > > Oh, no, sorry, forgot that you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want !
>
> >
>
> > Liar. You now stoop to pure fantasy. NO judge or jury can be accurate, since they really don't know the facts. But you (and everyone else) already knew that, liar.
>
>
>
> Where is the lie Mike ?

Right in front of your eyes, of course: "you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want". You are so used to lying and thinking that you are telling the truth, that you don't even know what a lie is -- like ALL mountain bikers.

I am simply pointing out that whilst you might claim victory in your own mind I strongly suspect that an impartial group viewing this thread might not agree with that. Didn't realise you were so touchy about the word 'jury' :-)
>
>
>
> Your approach to debate appears to be ... throw out ludicrous proposition ... provide zero back-up beyond 'I say so' when challenged ... then claim victory in the subsequent debate irrespective of having your head handed to you on a plate.

BS. You think that fabricating stuff is okay. It's not. It's a waste of time talking to an incorrigible LIAR like you. Goodbye.

[Mike Vandeman]

[Blackblade]

> You make no sense. Threatening homicide is against the law. Why is that so hard for you to admit??? Because a mountain biker did it? That's dishonest.

No, you're dishonest. You have known, from the very first post, that there was no credible threat to your life. If it were otherwise you would be down at the police station reporting it. Grow up !

> "In the other thread" is not specific enough to know what you are talking about, as you well know.

Indeed, "the other thread" is not that specific ... which is precisely why I provided a link. Do you have trouble reading these days ? Here it is again ... https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.mountain-bike/g6-looFBysM/nYQ7Q36X8akJ

> > > Liar. You now stoop to pure fantasy. NO judge or jury can be accurate, since they really don't know the facts. But you (and everyone else) already knew that, liar.
>
> > Where is the lie Mike ?
>
> Right in front of your eyes, of course: "you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want". You are so used to lying and thinking that you are telling the truth, that you don't even know what a lie is -- like ALL mountain bikers.

You really are losing it. You're contradicting yourself in one post. Do you actually bother to read what you're writing ? You state "NO judge or jury can be accurate" and then, when I point out that, clearly, you don't believe in juries you accuse me of lying ! I think some remedial study in logic is required.

> BS. You think that fabricating stuff is okay. It's not. It's a waste of time talking to an incorrigible LIAR like you. Goodbye.

I've fabricated nothing ... just pointed out the import of what you've said and dissected your asinine attempts at logic.

[Mike Vandeman]

On Monday, November 12, 2012 1:48:50 AM UTC-8, Blackblade wrote:
> > You make no sense. Threatening homicide is against the law. Why is that so hard for you to admit??? Because a mountain biker did it? That's dishonest.
>
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>
> No, you're dishonest. You have known, from the very first post, that there was no credible threat to your life. If it were otherwise you would be down at the police station reporting it. Grow up !
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> > "In the other thread" is not specific enough to know what you are talking about, as you well know.
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> Indeed, "the other thread" is not that specific ... which is precisely why I provided a link. Do you have trouble reading these days ? Here it is again ... https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.mountain-bike/g6-looFBysM/nYQ7Q36X8akJ
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> > > > Liar. You now stoop to pure fantasy. NO judge or jury can be accurate, since they really don't know the facts. But you (and everyone else) already knew that, liar.
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> >
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> > > Where is the lie Mike ?
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> >
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> > Right in front of your eyes, of course: "you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want". You are so used to lying and thinking that you are telling the truth, that you don't even know what a lie is -- like ALL mountain bikers.
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> You really are losing it. You're contradicting yourself in one post. Do you actually bother to read what you're writing ? You state "NO judge or jury can be accurate" and then, when I point out that, clearly, you don't believe in juries you accuse me of lying ! I think some remedial study in logic is required.

You conveniently removed the lie. Here it is again: "you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want". Try to be honest, liar!!!!!

> > BS. You think that fabricating stuff is okay. It's not. It's a waste of time talking to an incorrigible LIAR like you. Goodbye.
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> I've fabricated nothing ... just pointed out the import of what you've said and dissected your asinine attempts at logic.

Re-read your fabrication, LIAR (=mountain biker).

[Blackblade]

> You conveniently removed the lie. Here it is again: "you don't believe in juries ... unless they produce the result you want". Try to be honest, liar!!!!!

Here you are Mike ... from your own website ... "Bicycles should not be allowed in any natural area. They are inanimate objects and have no rights. There is also no right to mountain bike. That was settled in federal court in 1994:
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb1."

So, when it gets the result you want, you are quite happy to promulgate the results of a trial ... and have done so again and again and again.

Proven as stated.

> Re-read your fabrication, LIAR (=mountain biker).

Where Mike ? Your fantasising.