Paint
Steve Zylstra
Could'nt get out of the way in June. T-boned. All back together now, but
doesn't look like a Dyna Wide Glide anymore. A painter used by one of the
local dealers did the color for $1600. (ouch) When I picked up the tin at
the dealers, it was scuffed up and scratched from mishandling. By the
painter?, By the Dealer? Nobody knows. Took it back to the painter, who
then buffed out all three pieces as best he could to keep the color
consistant. I put the bike back together. The paint is noticably full of
swirl and scratch from the rubout. Just add wax?, doesn't cover it. Looks
great when the sun is not on it. But you know, it's sunny all the time here
in Washington. The Dealer says they are prepared to have it re-shot if I
want. What to do. Who to use. Fair to charge for amount of time to take it
back down and then put it back up?
Panhead
Dang! That's pretty pricey if'n you ask me for a bad job.
The painter obviously doesn't know how to polish correctly.
Perhaps you can do a little hand polishing with a very
ultra-fine polish (Like 3-M's Finesse-it II ?) and then follow
with a glaze like Meguiars #7 and then wax?
Obviously, if you can get the dealer to have it redone, I
would. If this was covered by insurance, I would demand anyway.
Whether they will reimburse you for time down it will take to do
it again, I really don't know if they will do that but, you could
ask.
I would also ask that it be done by somebody else.
Did that paint job cost _you_ $1600 or the dealership? Insurance
company?
Panhead.AH™#49, HSB™#1219, KoB/CoT™236# AR/Y2K Compliant™
--EKIII Paints with me--
--Pull my finger to reply--
Steve Zylstra
To: Panhead <pullmy...@intac.com>
Subject: Fw: Paint
Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 9:40 AM
>--Original Message-----
>From: Steve Zylstra <stevez...@worldnet.att.net>
>To: Panhead <panmy...@intac.com>
>Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 8:21 AM
>Subject: Re: Paint
>
>
>>Panhead,
>>
>>The owner of the car's insurance coughed up $5000 for repairs which
>included
>>15 hours of dealer labor cost to bring it back to original condition.
After
>>I got the check, I spent some time with a guy at the dealers, redesigning
>>the Bike. Did all the work myself, shoved the labor cost and $2500+ more
of
>>my hard earned, (for a total of over $7500) into replacement, after
market,
>>chrome and paint. (I couldn't stop myself) The painter quoted $1600 at the
>>dealers, to me. Don't know (yet) what percentage of that went to the
>dealer.
>>The paint used : House of colors candy. First intended to be cleaned /
>>cared for with Meguires final inspection. After the rub out, nix the final
>>inspection- told to use Meguires #26 to cover the swirl. The paint
>dents and a scratch on the rear, are to deep to remove. Insurance is
>>basically out of the picture now. The dealer says they intend to do what
>>ever it takes to make it right. Suppose to meet with them next week. I
want
>>to be fair/ want to be satisfied/ want to be done. the sun will be back
any
>>minute now.
>>Steve Z
Panhead
Steve Zylstra wrote:
> >--Original Message-----
> >From: Steve Zylstra <stevez...@worldnet.att.net>
> >To: Panhead <panmy...@intac.com>
> >Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 8:21 AM
> >Subject: Re: Paint
Apparently the SPAM BLOCK bounced ya, eh? Sorry.
Try "panhead at" next time if you need to e-mail
Otherwise, just post to this Newsgroup as there are other experts
in this field that can also help, as well as others that might
need this information!
Moving on.....
> >>Panhead,
> >>
> >>The owner of the car's insurance coughed up $5000 for repairs which
> >included
> >>15 hours of dealer labor cost to bring it back to original condition.
EEK! Took quite a hit, eh?
Good to see that you are OK and bouncing back.
> After
> >>I got the check, I spent some time with a guy at the dealers, redesigning
> >>the Bike. Did all the work myself, shoved the labor cost and $2500+ more
> of
> >>my hard earned, (for a total of over $7500) into replacement, after
> market,
> >>chrome and paint. (I couldn't stop myself)
Egads! There are doctors that help with affliction! :)
The painter quoted $1600 at the
> >>dealers, to me. Don't know (yet) what percentage of that went to the
> >dealer.
> >>The paint used : House of colors candy.
That is a great product.
So now, it appears to me that your bike was NOT painted back to
the original color and/or scheme, eh?
(Uh, lacquer or Urethane, by the by?) Urethane is BEST IMHO)
First intended to be cleaned /
> >>cared for with Meguires final inspection. After the rub out, nix the final
> >>inspection- told to use Meguires #26 to cover the swirl.
I have no idea what #26 is.
Turns out that http://www.meguiars.com/index.cfm is not
describing their product line entirely or easily.
I love Meguiars stuff but, I only use a few of their products in
my line of work...which just happens to be...PAINTING!
> > The paint
> >dents and a scratch on the rear, are to deep to remove.
"Paint dents?" Hmmmm.
I don't know exactly what you mean by that, unless of course you
are talking about "fish-eye".
If that is the case, then the dweeb that painted it should have
his permit to paint with a spray-gun licence REVOKED!
If that indeed IS the case, then it *might* be a very easily
repairable job ..ON THE COMPETENT painters part!
Consider: If the color and base is OK, then "possibly" all it
needs is to have more clear coat placed on it.
After all, if the wrong people keep rubbing out the clear to the
point of it disapearing...or gets to thin... it becomes a useless
coating and it needs to be repainted from the color up...as it
will indeed fail!
That is BAD!
But, if the clear coat is still thick (and new) enough then it
can be repaired with minimal down-time.
Therfore, the "painter" just needs to CLEAN AND DEGREASE, then
scuff lightly, RE-CLEAN AND DEGREASE and possibly just apply more
clear...and do it like a thinking person!
Yes, we HAVE to assume that the painter is capable of that task!
;^>
So for now? Do NOT apply any (more) type of wax or silicone
based "stuff" to the finish, as apparently the painter that did
the job originally doen't have a clue as to proper treatment or
cleansing abilities.
HOWEVER (!!); if the color that is underneath the already applied
clear is spotty, blotchy, or otherwise uneven, then the entire
job needs to be redone.
That means that the painter STILL needs to follow proper
procedures and a lobotomy!
Insurance is
> >>basically out of the picture now. The dealer says they intend to do what
> >>ever it takes to make it right.
Good for (both of) them.
After all, I'm kinda fuzzy as to what you have now VS what you
had that the insurance company was obligated to take care of.
However, the dealer should have a perfectly good line on
compitant painters if they are going to sub the job out locally.
Suppose to meet with them next week. I
> want
> >>to be fair/ want to be satisfied/ want to be done. the sun will be back
> any
> >>minute now.
> >>Steve Z
You sound like a fair man.
I hope the dealer AND the (ahem) "painter" is as fair as well.
Steve Zylstra
Panhead wrote in message <38189401...@intac.com>...
>POSTED ONLY!
>
>Steve Zylstra wrote:
>
>> >--Original Message-----
>> >From: Steve Zylstra <stevez...@worldnet.att.net>
>> >To: Panhead <panmy...@intac.com>
>> >Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 8:21 AM
>> >Subject: Re: Paint
>
> Good to see that you are OK and bouncing back.
Bike officer, while looking at the bike,
*said(quote : you'll heal, but that really hurts!)
>> So now, it appears to me that your bike was NOT painted back to
> (Uh, lacquer or Urethane, by the by?) Urethane is BEST IMHO)
>> I have no idea what #26 is.
>
>
>"Paint dents?" Hmmmm.
> I don't know exactly what you mean by that, unless of course you
>are talking about "fish-eye".
> * I meant small chips deep into the clear but not into the color
> * to deep to go after
> thick (and new) enough then it
>can be repaired with minimal down-time. - 3 weeks old-
> He claims a total of 17 coats of clear.
>
>*When I first recieved the painted tin, you could feel the edges, of the
lower edge of the
art work on the tank (both sides). He rubbed that smooth also. The art on
the tank shows "like" tape lines.
is that from laying it on too thick? Smoothing out the art edge probably
took quite a bit of clear, right?
> Shouldn't this have been wet sanded smooth before applying the clear
coats?
> So for now? Do NOT apply any (more) type of wax or silicone
>based "stuff" to the finish
> Thanks for the advice!
>HOWEVER (!!); if the color that is underneath the already applied
>clear is spotty, blotchy, or otherwise uneven, then the entire
>job needs to be redone.
>
>*No, color looks pretty good
>
> After all, I'm kinda fuzzy as to what you have now VS what you
>had that the insurance company was obligated to take care of.
> However, the dealer should have a perfectly good line on
>compitant painters if they are going to sub the job out locally.
>
>Originally, a two tone, maroon and cherry red w/ gold pin & 93 graphics
decal
HD wanted $1300 to redo which was in the insurance estimate
>Now its dark brandy wine put over a green base, fading to cherry off the
FLH style rear fender
Cherry colored graphics (a bit like a lightning bolt) on both the tank and
Fat Boy style front fender - sides
>> competent painters? a little worried about that.
Panhead
Steve Zylstra wrote:
>
> Panhead wrote in message <38189401...@intac.com>...
> >POSTED ONLY!
> > (Uh, lacquer or Urethane, by the by?) Urethane is BEST IMHO)
> >* The new paint is Urethane
> >> I have no idea what #26 is.
> >
> >* #26- Brazilian yellow carnauba wax, polymers,resins & silicones
EEEK!
Drop kick that crap into the nearest trash receptacle.
While it may indeed work great on an already wonderful finish,
it simply won't do squat on your particular "problem" AND,
because of the " polymers,resins & silicones" that it perhaps
contains, it will now cause MORE problems if the
idiot/dweeb/painter that had it before, has at it again!
> >"Paint dents?" Hmmmm.
> > I don't know exactly what you mean by that, unless of course you
> >are talking about "fish-eye".
>
> > * I meant small chips deep into the clear but not into the color
> > * to deep to go after
> > thick (and new) enough then it
> >can be repaired with minimal down-time. - 3 weeks old-
> > He claims a total of 17 coats of clear.
Chips? Now we are talking major mishaps!
This a paint job that you should NEVER have accepted from the
git-go!
17 coats of clear as well?
(Sniff sniff) I smell lacquer and a TOTAL IDIOT of a painter.
Do NOT have that MORON re-paint it again!
In fact, I would DEMAND that it be STRIPPED, verified that it
is, and started over again.
Do NOT have it simply "painted" over!!
NOBODY has used lacquer based paints in the motor-OEM finishing
business in decades!
Nobody in their right mind uses that "stuff" for refinishing as
well.
It's disgusting, does not hold up, and will not hold a candle to
the paints that are available today for the same [about] price.
> >*When I first recieved the painted tin, you could feel the edges, of the
> lower edge of the
> art work on the tank (both sides). He rubbed that smooth also. The art on
> the tank shows "like" tape lines.
> is that from laying it on too thick?
Sadly, I can't "see it" from here so, I can't exactly tell what
you have.
Original paint jobs from the factory that have a decal on them,
you can indeed "feel"....slightly.
However, you should not be able to stub or bruise yer finger on
it when feeling the paint.
> Smoothing out the art edge probably
> took quite a bit of clear, right?
Not more then needed but, the painter should NOT have given the
job back to the dealer in a piss poor shape either.
Therefore, next time, you should be very aware of the paint job
when it leaves the painters hands.
That's the only way all of you can be assured of the condition
it left HIS hands.
> > Shouldn't this have been wet sanded smooth before applying the clear
> coats?
Absolutely not!
After all, I'm not even sure what color we are talking about in
your particular case.
Not that it matters but, clear is applied "Wet on Wet".
Meaning, the final "color" is applied and THEN the clear is
applied on top of that!
The CLEAR is what is "wet/color sanded" and then
polished...recleared..polished again,..etc.. whatever.
The final base coat or color, before Clear, is NEVER touched!
Meaning also, the base/final must be PERFECT BEFORE any clear is
dumped on top.
This is what leads me to believe that it's the clear that is
possibly goofy on your "17 coats" of clear (lacquer finish?) and
the painter that did your job has the IQ of a small sneaker.
I can't explain the chips.
>
> > So for now? Do NOT apply any (more) type of wax or silicone
> >based "stuff" to the finish
>
> > Thanks for the advice!
>
> >HOWEVER (!!); if the color that is underneath the already applied
> >clear is spotty, blotchy, or otherwise uneven, then the entire
> >job needs to be redone.
> >*No, color looks pretty good
That's what scares me now! ;\
That "17 coats of.." whateverism and he still can't polish it to
perfection?
Egads!
> >
> > After all, I'm kinda fuzzy as to what you have now VS what you
> >had that the insurance company was obligated to take care of.
> > However, the dealer should have a perfectly good line on
> >compitant painters if they are going to sub the job out locally.
> >Originally, a two tone, maroon and cherry red w/ gold pin & 93 graphics
> decal
> HD wanted $1300 to redo which was in the insurance estimate
> >Now its dark brandy wine put over a green base, fading to cherry off the
> FLH style rear fender
> Cherry colored graphics (a bit like a lightning bolt) on both the tank and
> Fat Boy style front fender - sides
Brandywine over a green base?
Sounds like mud to me but, to each his own.
> >> competent painters? a little worried about that.
That's what you want.
What I'm worried about is your color choice and combination.
Perhaps the "dents" you see are bits of puke he picked out.
Painter John
<snip>
> Perhaps the "dents" you see are bits of puke he picked out.
Not much more to add here... Panheads covered it all pretty well.. I'll add this tho... You
shouldn't have to be doing anything at all to make the job look better.. That's the painter and the
dealers responsibility! Panhead hit the nail on the head... sounds like you should have never taken
delivery...
Ride Free,
Painter John
e-mail to pntrjohn at mediaone.net (iow's remove the vowels from painter)
<http://users.leading.net/~painterj>
pdman
for a larger tank on my 1100 sportster. I bought the tank and the two
fenders. Paint on the tank bubble terribly and when put together they forced
my seat into the tank. The paint was not cured and it pushed into the metal.
They crammed it in so tight they broke my seat. The seat wore into the metal
on the rear fender. This all happened with in a three mile ride from the
dealer to my home.Dealer said it was normal wear and refused to fix it. I
stopped payment on the checkand when he found that out he wanted to talk. I
took my bike back at his request to be fixed. It sat there for two and a
half weeks. The painter did not even know it was there or that there was
anything wrong with it.I took it home and set up another appointment.Took it
back and they had it for two more weeks. Didn't touch it. I took it back
home.They called to reschdule it and they asked when I could take it back. I
told them NEVER. I guess I will be going to court over this. I am getting
sick and tired of giving my money to people who think they can take it and
give me anything in return.
Steve Zylstra <FXD...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7v9kf0$nvj$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
Panhead
pdman wrote:
>
> I also had mine painted at a cost of 1300.00. This included a change over
> for a larger tank on my 1100 sportster.
Then the "paint job" didn't cost $1300. did it?
> I bought the tank and the two
> fenders.
Please make up your mind.
> Paint on the tank bubble terribly and when put together they forced
> my seat into the tank.
I am sure you are trying to make a statement but..... so far I
can't make any sense out of what you said so far.
The paint on your bike "bubbled", right?
What does that have to do what?
Who put what together?
How did the seat get forced into the tank?
> The paint was not cured and it pushed into the metal.
Please explain in C L E A R detail.
> They crammed it in so tight they broke my seat.
What got crammed in so tight?
Now the seat is broke?
I thought the seat broke the tank ....and the paint!
(I'm baffled!)
> The seat wore into the metal
> on the rear fender.
This seams like a rather EVIL seat! It's busting everything!
Who built this bike?
> This all happened with in a three mile ride from the
> dealer to my home.Dealer said it was normal wear and refused to fix it.
(ahem)
What kind of test line are you using?
> I
> stopped payment on the checkand when he found that out he wanted to talk.
Makes it not sense no me too, Yoda.
Bright.net, eh?
mike
Call Len Stuart AC(609) 859-3670 he's a expert refinisher/painter. His web
site is Autobodystore.com. There is a product called Presta there make work
in this application. However, Len will be able to help you on a approach
that will have a excellent result. He helps hundreds of us beginning
painters.
Personally, for $1600, IMHO we should only being seeing your smile.
Good luck,
Semper Fi,
mike