The forgotten art of body soldering!
Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores
so put away the soldering irons you damn fools.
If y'all recall I wanted to tap out a dent in a gastank I purchased
not too long ago. I figured welding on a pin and slide hammering it
out would be the way to go as I have an aversion to body putty. Too
easy and trailer trashy for my tastes. Next thing you know you're
driving around in a primered out Camaro and chainsmoking Doral Lights
by the carton in a half bleached Megadeth t-shirt.
But life is funny and time is scarce so the project kinda got put on
hold for awhile.
Then one day I'm flipping through a "How to Restore your Classic
Musclecar" book I had from my teenage years. This is from when you're
dumb and naive enough to actually attempt restoration of a classic
musclecar. Usually all such future attempts are permanently thwarted
after you realize there's over 300 parts in a typical V8 and many many
crevices for them to crawl into that require reaching into dank areas
of your garage found appealing only to venomous spiders and
millipedes. Mmmmmm...
So a particular chapter caught my attention as the memories of that
Ford Rustang that I sold to a doctor fuck for entirely too little
money came flooding back. Body soldering. For those of you whom are
clueless it's how they got those wonderfully smooth curves and fillets
in adjoining panels before the dawn of cheapo 3M body caulks. They
still use it for high quality restorations and on the mighty-mighty
Rolls Royce products. British people are already loony enough to not
have to worry about occupational exposure to lead and its byproducts.
So the gerbil started running on its little chromed out pimpmobile
wheel and the next thing you know I put two and two together. The dent
in question was about the size of a frozen pea and if I filled it in
how much could a tiny bit of lead actually add in terms of unsprung
weight anyways?
Running into my parts pile I fished out the gastank and out came the
trusty dremel with a sanding wheel. A quick zap and we have denuded
the dent area down to virgin metal.
Of course it also helps if you have some solder and heat. Irons are
useless as they'll simply bleed into the workpiece and never bring it
up to temp. Oxy-acetylene torches are just the ticket for the Tim
Allen types, but good luck trying not to punch a hole in the thin
sheetmetal. If your touch is that delicate then you should be milking
bull studs for fun and profit.
You could use a propane torch, but far more chic is the crackpipe
torch/butane soldering iron I picked up at Radio Shack for the
princely sum of $17.
http://www.geocities.com/destinyim/cracktorch.jpg
The micro sized flame is just the ticket for not scorching the
surrounding paint plus you can reward yourself with a few solid hits
from your hash pipe afterwards for a job well done.
Of course fate had different plans. The micro-torch was empty. So was
my butane refill. I guess pot really does make you forget shit. So off
into the Jeep I go, down to the local Habib-Punjabi news store in that
creepy part of town whose collection of pornographic literature is of
almost Babylonian proportions and attracts pasty-faced suburban dads
from hundreds of miles around. A cum soaked garden of delights replete
with 25 cent buddy booths and floors so sticky they make movie
theatres look like an ice-skating rink by comparison.
Where else can you get rolling papers, a giant glitter filled dildo,
magazines devoted to orifices you didn't even know you had and of
course the coveted butane cylinder at any godless hour of the night or
day? My eyes immediately fell on the brand name stuff but further up
the rack was the mother lode! A giant Aqua-Net sized can of butane
from Korea called King-Hong butane for only $2.99. Shit, that's so
cheap you'd think they were selling air or something!
Stumbling over a few nervous dads tentatively making love to the
magazine racks I also picked up a copy of Motorcyclist. God what a
crap read, really gone downhill since I last opened a copy a year ago.
Now when you take it into the bathroom you can also wipe your ass with
it when you're done. I mean come on, a full page ad for a bogus sexual
performance enhancer and a monthly columnist highlighting the
crotchrocket stunta scene?
Am I getting older or is everybody just getting stoopider?
Anyways back at casa putana I fill up the torch and search around the
junk drawers for the solder spool. Yeah yeah technically you're
supposed to go to Eastwood supply and get their 70/30 lead/tin alloy
sticks for this sort of thing. Technically too you're supposed to use
tin impregnated flux.
Technically you're also not supposed to exceed the speed limit and
engage in alcohol fueled premarital coitus either. Which is why I used
the 60/40 alloy reel of rosin core solder just the same. The
additional tin makes the metal flow easier and dry harder when it's
done. Win win win all around and you don't have to worry about flux
cleanup.
So for those ignorant of how this works you heat the piece up with the
torch, not the solder. Surprisingly the paint didn't lift or blister
despite being millimeters away from the process. Hats off to Yamaha.
Then add the solder in and let it melt from the heat on the piece. If
it's beading up like water on fresh wax you're a tool and didn't heat
it up enough. Hit it again until the metal spreads out nice and thin.
If you can't get this to happen then your torch is too small for the
job and all the girls are laughing at you. It works best in a
horizontal position obviously, unless getting molten lead on your
crotch is a pleasurable experience.
Here's a pic of the aftermath:
http://www.geocities.com/destinyim/topsies.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/destinyim/side.jpg
I forgot to mention you clean the metal with alcohol before soldering
and you wear safety glasses at all times. Standard disclaimer cause I
know some of you are surprisingly dumb... I mean Bush is our freely
elected president right?
Anyways after the soldering you zap it again with your dremel to the
desired shape so don't be stingy with the tinning. A nice wad that
goes past the dent is best. I'll also note you're breathing in lead
dust while this is happening so try to spring for the cartridge
respirator at Home Depot unless you have insurance that covers burning
your house down whilst playing violin.
It's also best to do this outdoors, not over your baby's crib while
reading them a bedtime story. The last thing we need are more
Konservatives.
So anyways a final finish sanding by hand followed by the appropriate
primer and you're done:
http://www.geocities.com/destinyim/after.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/destinyim/side2.jpg
Yamaha sells these tanks new and pre-painted for about $400. I picked
this one up with a teeny dent for $80 and feel far less guilty about
stripping it to the bone for a custom paintjob. Total effort? About
five minutes.
With a proper technique, this solder business bonds to the metal far
more tenaciously than any body filler can ever dream of. It's easier
to apply and dries almost instantly to boot. Just make sure you don't
disturb the lead while it's solidifying or it'll crystallize into a
porous mess. Hit it again with the torch should that happen and all is
well. In fact you can reposition the damn thing over and over again.
Try that with your bondo putty.
Happy smelting!
-Demetrius "Nero" the XXIV
Bubba
and the Gladiatores) wrote:
>So the gerbil started running on its little chromed out pimpmobile
>wheel and the next thing you know I put two and two together. The dent
>in question was about the size of a frozen pea and if I filled it in
>how much could a tiny bit of lead actually add in terms of unsprung
>weight anyways?
Uhh, zero. The tank is sprung weight ;)
>Where else can you get rolling papers, a giant glitter filled dildo,
>magazines devoted to orifices you didn't even know you had and of
>course the coveted butane cylinder at any godless hour of the night or
>day?
So THAT'S where I can get a glitter filled dildo. My wife has been
bitching about her boring chrome one for years.
>Technically you're also not supposed to exceed the speed limit and
>engage in alcohol fueled premarital coitus either.
And technically you aren't supposed to apply a torch to a tank full of
gas vapors, but we won't go there.
>horizontal position obviously, unless getting molten lead on your
>crotch is a pleasurable experience.
Hey, different strokes... Personally I prefer MIG welding wire
splatter myself, but only because I have a bad habit of welding naked.
Steve
95 Buell S2
96 Kawasaki ZX7R
h2...@sbcglobal.net
--
"Most people have no idea what they are doing. A lot of them are really
good at it!"
"Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores" <cae...@casputana.it> wrote in message
news:3ee7c2b6...@news.prodigy.net...
MikeWhy
news:3ee7c2b6...@news.prodigy.net...
> elected president right?
Ummm. He is?
> Total effort? About five minutes.
Waitaminutebub. As easy as cleaning and lubing a chain? Didn't sound like
it.
Nice write-up, though.
mm
news:3ee7c2b6...@news.prodigy.net...
> Happy smelting!
Nice work!
Very cool technique.
Debra Keith
news:DiQFa.308$XV2.1...@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net:
i only want to know... how he knows so much about the "buddy booths"
;)
--
Debbie Keith
2002 Daytona
"Buell rhymes with Stool"
bowman
> Body soldering. For those of you whom are
> clueless it's how they got those wonderfully smooth curves and fillets
> in adjoining panels before the dawn of cheapo 3M body caulks.
it was also why the lead sleds rode so low; you didn't need a lowering kit
-- just let gravity do its thing.
Kaybearjr
>Stumbling over a few nervous dads tentatively making love to the magazine
racks I also picked up a copy of Motorcyclist. God what a crap read, really
gone downhill since I last opened a copy a year ago. Now when you take it into
the bathroom you can also wipe your ass with it when you're done. I mean come
on, a full page ad for a bogus sexual performance enhancer and a monthly
columnist highlighting the crotchrocket stunta scene?
Actions speak louder than words...
All together now: everybody tear page 17 of the June issue out, and leave it
near the throne in your bathroom. When the need arises, wipe your asses with
Aaron P. Frank's picture, and snail-mail it to him...
Phyloe
here.
Phyloe
"Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores" <cae...@casputana.it> wrote in message
news:3ee7c2b6...@news.prodigy.net...
Bubba
>Actions speak louder than words...
>
>All together now: everybody tear page 17 of the June issue out, and leave it
>near the throne in your bathroom. When the need arises, wipe your asses with
>Aaron P. Frank's picture, and snail-mail it to him...
So that we don't have to go spend money on it, how about scanning it
for our convenience? ;)
Lyle Gunderson
bu...@beer.com (Bubba) wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:01:02 GMT, cae...@casputana.it (Demetrius XXIV
> and the Gladiatores) wrote:
>
> >So the gerbil started running on its little chromed out pimpmobile
> >wheel and the next thing you know I put two and two together. The dent
> >in question was about the size of a frozen pea and if I filled it in
> >how much could a tiny bit of lead actually add in terms of unsprung
> >weight anyways?
>
> Uhh, zero. The tank is sprung weight ;)
You must not have read his earlier post about mounting the tank inside
his front wheel.
_Bob Nixon_
and the Gladiatores) wrote:
>No, this is not like the next level after you've pierced your scrotum,
>so put away the soldering irons you damn fools.
[...]
At least get your terms straight, Dem. The pre "Bond-O" era was called
"body leading" not "body soldering" -:)
01 Sprint ST "RED"
Bob Nixon, Phoenix Az.
Reassembler
> --
> "Most people have no idea what they are doing. A lot of them are really
> good at it!"
> "Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores" <cae...@casputana.it> wrote in
message
> news:3ee7c2b6...@news.prodigy.net...
> > No, this is not like the next level after you've pierced your scrotum,
> > so put away the soldering irons you damn fools.
> >
> > If y'all recall I wanted to tap out a dent in a gastank I purchased
> > not too long ago. I figured welding on a pin and slide hammering it
> > out would be the way to go as I have an aversion to body putty. Too
> > easy and trailer trashy for my tastes. Next thing you know you're
> > driving around in a primered out Camaro and chainsmoking Doral Lights
> > by the carton in a half bleached Megadeth t-shirt.
> >
his living as a nanny....
Reassembler
Tundra Wookie
>
> You could use a propane torch, but far more chic is the crackpipe
> torch/butane soldering iron I picked up at Radio Shack for the
> princely sum of $17.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/destinyim/cracktorch.jpg
>
> The micro sized flame is just the ticket for not scorching the
> surrounding paint plus you can reward yourself with a few solid hits
> from your hash pipe afterwards for a job well done.
Homo Despot has the equivalent unit for about $10 cheaper. I would seriously
hope they included sand in the trial sized tube of Vaseline that came with
it.
>
> Of course fate had different plans. The micro-torch was empty. So was
> my butane refill. I guess pot really does make you forget shit. So off
> into the Jeep I go, down to the local Habib-Punjabi news store in that
> creepy part of town whose collection of pornographic literature is of
> almost Babylonian proportions and attracts pasty-faced suburban dads
> from hundreds of miles around. A cum soaked garden of delights replete
> with 25 cent buddy booths and floors so sticky they make movie
> theatres look like an ice-skating rink by comparison.
>
You seem to know a lot about these "buddy booths," the clientele and the
location of said news store
See Vaseline comment above. Just remember, Vaseline is not compatible with
latex condoms and sex in "buddy booths" without condoms is... um... best
left unsaid.
I suspect your aversion to Bondo is actually an excuse to escape the wife
and go to said "buddy booths."
--TW Do the clerks at the local news store know you by the name Norm. <cue
Cheers theme song>
Debra Keith
news:10554056...@ftp.mauigateway.com:
except for the pothead part... i think male caregivers are a great thing.
(our 2-year-old is watched by an 83-year-old man. i suppose it's a fairly
atypical situation.. but it is the most awesome arrangement)
i think the only thing that might give our caregiver a buzz is his
glucophage (med. for non-insulin dependent diabetics)
i also think male caregivers cause children to have fewer ideas like
"cooking is a female's job..." and that will make him a better
father/husband/ (should he choose to be one) and basically a better person
in general.
Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores
<di...@nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
>At least get your terms straight, Dem. The pre "Bond-O" era was called
>"body leading" not "body soldering" -:)
Ah... Mr. Nixon. The only man who answers "both" to the question of
"is that a roll of quarters in your pocket, or are you just happy to
see me?"
Debra Keith
news:3ee8c51d....@news.prodigy.net:
i think you're only mentioning quarters.. cause you still have the "buddy
booth" on your mind.
;)
Mike Bartman
and the Gladiatores) wrote:
>No, this is not like the next level after you've pierced your scrotum,
>so put away the soldering irons you damn fools.
>
>If y'all recall I wanted to tap out a dent in a gastank I purchased
>not too long ago. I figured welding on a pin and slide hammering it
>
<snip>
>
>Happy smelting!
Good info, presented in a very entertaining way! Thanks!
-- Mike
P.S. you know, you could probably sell that piece to a magazine...or
at least one like it that hasn't been "published" on the 'net.
----------------------------------------------------------------
To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address.
I'm getting sick of all the SPAM...
----------------------------------------------------------------
MikeWhy
news:bc8tph$gkuts$1...@ID-178367.news.dfncis.de...
> Interesting. As I recall getting fuel tank dents out is a common topic
> here.
You have to keep it at least half in mind that Dem is probably the most
successful troll on this NG.
Y'all will want to remember that gas tanks contain gas vapor. But you
already knew that, and it was redundant for me to say so.
Bubba
wrote:
>You must not have read his earlier post about mounting the tank inside
>his front wheel.
Gotta get some interesting looks at the pump, no? ;)
Bubba
wrote:
>
>Y'all will want to remember that gas tanks contain gas vapor. But you
>already knew that, and it was redundant for me to say so.
I'm so paranoid about blowing up tanks that I purge 'em with CO2
before I even plug in the welder in the same county ;)
Margaret M.
news:Xns939880EB7A...@68.12.19.6...
> cae...@casputana.it (Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores) wrote in
> news:3ee8c51d....@news.prodigy.net:
> >
> > "is that a roll of quarters in your pocket, or are you just happy to
> > see me?"
>
> i think you're only mentioning quarters.. cause you still have the "buddy
> booth" on your mind. ;)
ROFL!
Mag
Margaret M.
news:3eebdc05....@library.airnews.net...
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:01:02 GMT, cae...@casputana.it (Demetrius XXIV
> and the Gladiatores) wrote:
> >Happy smelting!
>
> Good info, presented in a very entertaining way! Thanks!
> P.S. you know, you could probably sell that piece to a magazine...or
> at least one like it that hasn't been "published" on the 'net.
'course then we'd be seeing @copyright Demetrius XXIV 2003 LOL!
Mag
-=潱emm=-
"Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores" <cae...@casputana.it> wrote in message
news:3ee7c2b6...@news.prodigy.net...
> so put away the soldering irons you damn fools.
>
This rivals ebonics as abuse of language.
Brian
> I guess pot really does make you forget shit.
> Am I getting older or is everybody just getting stoopider?
My guess is your aversion to "Konservatives" and your affection for pot
explains your confusion about age vs ignorance. Interesting post though,
minus your subtlely alluded to hobby of hanging at the porn shop.
Brian
Debra Keith
63835.news.dfncis.de:
I'M ONLY concerned that he's going to smoke pot and try his new
technique... resulting in an "unfortunate smelting accident".....
ahhhhhhh lead....
the taste of it...
the smell of it...
the TEXture...
Mike Bartman
wrote:
>Y'all will want to remember that gas tanks contain gas vapor. But you
>already knew that, and it was redundant for me to say so.
They contain gas vapors if they've ever been used, yes. This tank was
stated as being new, but damaged, and therefore sold at a discount.
If they've ever been used, it is dangerous to weld on them, or have
flames or sparks nearby at all. Even if you've drained them. Even if
you've rinsed them out. Gas can still linger in the "pores" of the
metal, and there can be enough to ignite and cause an explosion.
Those who weld used gas tanks professionally (more than once anyway)
tend to drain them, rinse them with a solvent, then flood them with
inert gas (such as argon) and keep up a flow while welding, so that
any flamable vapors that show up are swept out before they can build
to an explosive level.
A welding book I have describes a situation that actually occured when
a couple of idiot welders took on a welding job they weren't really
qualified for. It was welding some light brackets on two oil
trucks...in their home driveway. They got lucky with the first truck,
and completed the job. The second truck apparently had a slight leak
though, and when a spark got to the vapor, the truck exploded. One
welder ended up in the front yard of the house across the street, the
other was found in the kitchen of his own house. The house sustained
about 50% damage, the truck was totalled, and the oil tank ended up
(after a ~100' high flight) in the roof of a house on a neighboring
street. Bits of truck pelted all nearby homes and vehicles.
Amazingly, nobody died...though the two welders were not in perfect
condition afterward.
-- Mike
Wombat
om...@foolie.omniphile.com (Mike Bartman) wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 02:53:17 GMT, "MikeWhy" <Mik...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> A welding book I have describes a situation that actually occured when
> a couple of idiot welders ..........<snip>
Would an idiot welder also be known as an 'OXY MORON' ?
Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores
Bartman) wrote:
>They contain gas vapors if they've ever been used, yes. This tank was
>stated as being new, but damaged, and therefore sold at a discount.
Actually it was used, but hadn't contained gas for several months and
there was no gas odor inside the tank at all. You can safely solder
tanks so long as you take the appropriate precautions. Given enough
time and ventilation gas will evaporate to nothing.
Welding is a more dangerous process because of the sparking and
elevated temps. Soldering takes place in the upper 400 degree range.
Consider that your tank sees even more heat sitting on top of the
engine while filled with gas to the rim.
Not all metalwork on a bike is a gas tank, which is why I didn't
bother implying the obvious about taking precautions around it.
Paul Calman
>
> Would an idiot welder also be known as an 'OXY MORON' ?
Do they produce an "inert gas"?
Chris
it naming you as the author.
That would be a great article for the people there.
Chris
Nemo
> Soldering takes place in the upper 400 degree range.
True but how bout that crack pipe lighter you used?
Way more than 400.
> Consider that your tank sees even more heat sitting on top of the
> engine while filled with gas to the rim.
Say what? I hope to God my gas tank never sees 400 degrees excepting
maybe Kelvin during normal operation. You inhale a bunch of that lead?
Tell you what. You fill up a tank full to the top with gas. Sit on it.
Heat it up to 400. Sell the video.
--
Nemo BS#220 SugarRiverRAT
'72 CB175 Super Sport (deep sixed)
'71 T120R Bonneville (retired)
'95 T309RT Thunderbird "Blue Magoo"
Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long.
-Ogden Nash-
Reassembler
"Nemo" <ne...@mailbag.com> wrote in message
news:bcgo6u$57b$1...@grandcanyon.binc.net...
> Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores wrote:
>
> > Soldering takes place in the upper 400 degree range.
>
> True but how bout that crack pipe lighter you used?
> Way more than 400.
>
> > Consider that your tank sees even more heat sitting on top of the
> > engine while filled with gas to the rim.
>
> Say what? I hope to God my gas tank never sees 400 degrees excepting
> maybe Kelvin during normal operation. You inhale a bunch of that lead?
>
> Tell you what. You fill up a tank full to the top with gas. Sit on it.
> Heat it up to 400. Sell the video.
>
Reassembler
Jon
if the tank is full, and you keep the vapor away from the heat, you could
get one spot to 400f without an incident
not that I would recommend trying it
we did a neat project at work, repairs to a saddle tank from a semi
(yeah I know, diesel is a lot more friendly than gasoline)
we packed some dry ice in thru the filler. the co2 gas displaced the
gasoline vapor
put several pounds into the tank, welded on it for hours, (aluminum takes an
enormous amount of heat) and the tank was still cold when we were done
"Nemo" <ne...@mailbag.com> wrote in message
news:bcgo6u$57b$1...@grandcanyon.binc.net...
Bubba
>
>Would an idiot welder also be known as an 'OXY MORON' ?
You deserve to be beaten with a fistfull of welding rods for that ;)
Mike Bartman
and the Gladiatores) wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:48:24 GMT, om...@foolie.omniphile.com (Mike
>Bartman) wrote:
>
>>They contain gas vapors if they've ever been used, yes. This tank was
>>stated as being new, but damaged, and therefore sold at a discount.
>
>Actually it was used, but hadn't contained gas for several months and
>there was no gas odor inside the tank at all.
Ok, in that case it was a bit dangerous. Keeping up a flow of CO2 or
Argon or some other non-flamable gas would have been wise...just in
case.
>You can safely solder
>tanks so long as you take the appropriate precautions. Given enough
>time and ventilation gas will evaporate to nothing.
If it evaporates to below an explosive mixture level, that's good
enough. How low that is will depend on the gas...or powder (flour is
explosive at the right mixture of air and flour, as is any fine and
flamable powder).
>Welding is a more dangerous process because of the sparking and
>elevated temps. Soldering takes place in the upper 400 degree range.
The solder will melt at that temperature, yes. Some solders anyway.
I believe the cut-off that makes it "brazing" is about 700 F. That
doesn't mean your flame temp is 400 degrees, or that your metal is
limited to that temperature when you are soldering it. I'm pretty
sure that butane burns a bit hotter than 400 F...I know propane is
over 1100 een when burned in air (rather than O2). Your solder is
melting on the metal, so the metal is *at least* the melting point of
the solder, but it could easily be hotter too...anything up to the
flame temp...though if you get up to the boiling point of the solder
you'll know it. :^)
Most open flames will ignite gasolene vapors (Ether might be an
exception, I dunno. It burns pretty cool if I'm remembering my old
magic book study properly.)
>Consider that your tank sees even more heat sitting on top of the
>engine while filled with gas to the rim.
Heat and temperature may be related, but they are two different
things. An engine puts out a lot of heat, but only some of that
radiates up to the bottom of the tank. Only some of that goes into
heating the tank (some reflects off). The tank will tend to
re-radiate, and give up by conduction to the air, that heat over time.
The tank temperature will be related to the difference in the rate
that it absorbs engine (and sun and body) heat, and the rate that it
loses it, along with the mass and thermal properties of the tank and
gas.
I'm pretty sure that while parts of the engine may very well hit 400 F
while running (exhaust comes to mind), the tank never gets close to
that. Mine never burned me anyway...at least not unless I'd left it
sitting in the sun too long. :^)
>Not all metalwork on a bike is a gas tank, which is why I didn't
>bother implying the obvious about taking precautions around it.
True. Same technique would work on other dents and deep scratches.
Might be worth noting that the repair is cosmetic, not structural
though (perhaps more than body putty, but not as much as welding). If
you've got a deep gouge in your frame, you might want to get it
welded, not soldered.
Mike Bartman
>we packed some dry ice in thru the filler. the co2 gas displaced the
>gasoline vapor
>
>put several pounds into the tank, welded on it for hours, (aluminum takes an
>enormous amount of heat) and the tank was still cold when we were done
Aluminum takes less heat to melt than steel...that's one big reason
it's so hard to weld with oxy-acetylene (6300 F flame and 1100 degree
melting point...). It will form an oxide layer that has a higher
melting point than the pure metal though, so cleaning it is important.
On the other hand, Aluminum does conduct heat really well...and this
tank had several pounds of dry ice trying to keep it cool...that would
suck up a lot of heat from a welder for sure. :^)
Bubba
Bartman) wrote:
>The solder will melt at that temperature, yes. Some solders anyway.
>I believe the cut-off that makes it "brazing" is about 700 F. That
>doesn't mean your flame temp is 400 degrees, or that your metal is
>limited to that temperature when you are soldering it. I'm pretty
>sure that butane burns a bit hotter than 400 F...I know propane is
>over 1100 een when burned in air (rather than O2). Your solder is
>melting on the metal, so the metal is *at least* the melting point of
>the solder, but it could easily be hotter too...anything up to the
>flame temp...though if you get up to the boiling point of the solder
>you'll know it. :^)
Before the tank can get to the temp. of the flame the entire thing has
to be quite hot, if I remember right. Fortunately there's so little
mass and so much surface area that it cools pretty quick. However,
that lack of mass means it heats up pretty quick, too. I hate welding
sheet steel since it burns through so fast. Life sucks as soon as you
pop a hole in it. From then on it's a fight to get the hole sealed
back up without burning even more of the metal off. I usually start
screaming about 30 seconds into it ;)
>True. Same technique would work on other dents and deep scratches.
>Might be worth noting that the repair is cosmetic, not structural
>though (perhaps more than body putty, but not as much as welding). If
>you've got a deep gouge in your frame, you might want to get it
>welded, not soldered.
If the frame is steel get a good weldor to run a bead down the scratch
with a TIG. If it's aluminum and it doesn't start a crack just leave
it alone. Welding it will trash the temper of the metal and leave you
worse off than you were before. If it does start to crack, stop drill
both ends if it's in the middle of a spar. If it's at a joint your
only choice is to get a good weldor to TIG it correctly, and it's not
an easy process. Remember, those joints are under a hell of a lot of
stress.
Stephen!
> i also think male caregivers cause children to have fewer ideas like
> "cooking is a female's job..." and that will make him a better
> father/husband/ (should he choose to be one) and basically a better
> person in general.
Better yet is a child raised by their parents...
--
IBA# 11465
http://fromtheair.tripod.com
Facta, non Verba
Bubba
>Better yet is a child raised by their parents...
Raised, yes, but I know from personal experience and observation that
children in daycare have better social skills. My son has been in
daycare since he was about 9 months old and fairly well behaves
himself in public and, especially, around other children. Some friends
of mine didn't put their kids in daycare until they went to school and
neither of the little brats had any clue how to function with other
people. Daycare, nannies, etc. don't neccessarily raise the child.
Debra Keith
news:3ef16af4....@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
it's been my observation... that you can have two children the same age...
treat them exactly the same.. give them the same stimulous/experiences...
and they will turn out completely DIFFERENT.
tommy is with our caregiver 3 days a week.. there are no other children. of
course, when he does see children he gets very very excited...
(best is raised by the parents... sometimes it's just not how it works out.
tommy is only with George about 30 hours a week... )
Bubba
>it's been my observation... that you can have two children the same age...
>treat them exactly the same.. give them the same stimulous/experiences...
>and they will turn out completely DIFFERENT.
Of course, everyone is different, but it's still kinda odd that both
of those kids are so horrible at dealing with other people. Also, as
soon as their daughter started kindergarten she started turning into a
human like magic.
>tommy is with our caregiver 3 days a week.. there are no other children. of
>course, when he does see children he gets very very excited...
>
>(best is raised by the parents... sometimes it's just not how it works out.
>tommy is only with George about 30 hours a week... )
So you're with him 138 hours a week? Sounds like you're raising him to
me.
Debra Keith
news:3ef21640....@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:07:18 GMT, Debra Keith <sp...@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>it's been my observation... that you can have two children the same
>>age... treat them exactly the same.. give them the same
>>stimulous/experiences... and they will turn out completely DIFFERENT.
>
> Of course, everyone is different, but it's still kinda odd that both
> of those kids are so horrible at dealing with other people. Also, as
> soon as their daughter started kindergarten she started turning into a
> human like magic.
you're right... nothing works out a kids anti-social behaviors like the
pressure of a peer. (we all like to fit in... )
>
> So you're with him 138 hours a week? Sounds like you're raising him to
> me.
yes, and when they're two the hour is worth double!
:)
> Steve
> 95 Buell S2
> 96 Kawasaki ZX7R
>
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