December 7, 1941 A day that will live in infamy

[J]

70 years ago on a quiet Sunday morning, the cowardly Japanese launched a
sneak attack against American forces stationed at Pearl Harbor; killing
thousands of innocent people and catapulting America into WWII. America
has never exacted full retribution for this criminal act, but like the
old saying goes: "Better late than never".







--
J Young
Jvis...@live.com

[billzz]

That is the propaganda that our mommies and our daddies learned. Now you have to read the actual history. The Japanese ambassador had a long delay in decoding and the declaration of war (not meant to be a surprise attack) was delayed, and then he was held waiting in Cordell Hull's office. The US Navy had broken the Japanese Purple Code and warned of the attack, although they did not know exactly where. The Japanese fleet sailed from the fog-shrouded Kurile Islands, under radio silence, because they thought that the code had been broken. The warning message, to Pearl Harbor was sent by ordinary telegram, and arrived late.

there is a lot of history to read about this. You might read something about it.

[Horva...@net.net]

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 21:09:51 -0800, J <Jvis...@live.com> wrote this
crap:

We'll send The Resident there to bow to them, and apologize for nuking
two of their cities.

Vote for Romney. Repeal the nightmares.

[raven1]

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 21:09:51 -0800, J <Jvis...@live.com> wrote:

Sure is dark under that bridge.

[Fred Ellis]

I can't believe there is some one else beside me that knows the true
history behind the attack on Pearl Harbor. Your are right, the Japanese
never intend a 'sneak' attack, but a 'surprise' attack. They were
planning to deliver a 'declaration of war' to Secretary Hull one hour
before the attack. But because of the secrecy involved, the Japanese
ambassador was not told the importance to deliver that last communique
before 1:00 p.m. Washington D.C. time.

Had that communique been deliver on time, a state of war would have
existed one hour prior to the attack. The commander of the Japanese
attack force was order to attack Pearl Harbor not earlier than 8:00 a.m,
Hawaiian time. Thus the Japanese would have made a legitimate attack
according to the conventions of war because a 'state of war' would have
existed at the time of the attack.


Fred Ellis
MSgt, U.S. Army, Retired
--
"Who do you serve.... And who do you trust?"
(To e-mail me, remove the X from my address)

[Mogons]

> Jvisi...@live.com

I would say nuking two of their population centers was more than
enough "retribution".

mogons

[Ike]

The end of WWII converted Japan from an incredibly militant and
aggressive nation to one of the most peaceful. I lived in Japan and
speak the language, which evolved significantly after WWII to minimize
the possibility of conflict. As one example of many, a statement of fact
is usually followed by "isn't it?"

[Les]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 07:10:19 -0800 (PST), Mogons <mogo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

And destroying considerably more ships and their crews than
they sunk.

I am just reading a somehwat gung-ho book about the USN Intrepid
an aircraft carrier in New York whic I toured in Spetember. Our
cruise ship was docked at the next pier.

It was launched in 1943 and took its part in some of the later
battle including Leyte Gulf with great heroism.

But it was not just the USA which helped avenge Pearl
Harbour

I was priviledged to know a little Irishman who took part in
the sinking of one of the Japs Cruisers and he once
showed me his VC. In the history of the Royal Navy only five
Victoria Crosses (our highest decoration) have been earned
by submariners and James McGinnes was the last one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Magennis




--
Christianity? Just laugh and say NO!

Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

[Richard Greene]

On 12/6/11 11:09 PM, in article 57ji06....@news.alt.net, "J"

This was the ONLY war besides the Civil War that would have had a changing
effect on this country if we had lost. I never fair to thank the remaining
WWII vets I see for their service. They truly fought for THIS country,
unlike Korea and Vietnam, not to say those that gave their lives in those
conflicts were any lesser of a person.

Every generation has had a war to fight. Nobody is guessing where the next
generation will fight it's war.

Civil War - Between North and South
WWI - Fought to help France and Great Britain
WWII - Fought to keep the Japanese and Germans from taking over the world
Korea - Fought to help the South Koreans maintain their freedoms
Vietnam - Fought to help the South Vietnamese maintain their freedoms, and
yet a lot of items you buy in Wal-Mart are made there now
Grenada - Fought to evacuate American medical students
Panama - Fought to get rid of a tyrant and drug king pin
Iraq I - Fought to kick Iraq out of Kuwait
Iraq II - Fought to get rid of a tyrant, although personally I don't think
he had WMD
Afghanistan - Fought to catch and kill Osama Bin Laden

Unfortunately I think Iraq and Afghanistan will go the way of Vietnam. The
strong side will win and we will make all goody goody with them at the cost
of thousands of American lives.

Time we stayed home to protect the home front, and not to reduce the defense
budget to pre WWII levels. Dumb shits.

[Daryl]

On 12/7/2011 11:19 AM, Richard Greene wrote:
> On 12/6/11 11:09 PM, in article 57ji06....@news.alt.net, "J"
> <Jvis...@live.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 70 years ago on a quiet Sunday morning, the cowardly Japanese launched a
>> sneak attack against American forces stationed at Pearl Harbor; killing
>> thousands of innocent people and catapulting America into WWII. America
>> has never exacted full retribution for this criminal act, but like the
>> old saying goes: "Better late than never".
>
> This was the ONLY war besides the Civil War that would have had a changing
> effect on this country if we had lost. I never fair to thank the remaining
> WWII vets I see for their service. They truly fought for THIS country,
> unlike Korea and Vietnam, not to say those that gave their lives in those
> conflicts were any lesser of a person.
>
> Every generation has had a war to fight. Nobody is guessing where the next
> generation will fight it's war.
>
> Civil War - Between North and South

You sure simplified this. Too bad. I don't expect more from
you. The Civil War goes by two names. Civil War in the north
and War of Agression in the south. It was all about economics.
The South was all but blocked to produce manufactured goods. The
raw materials had to be transported to the northern factories and
then shipped back. The South wanted to break this. It finally
got broken but it cost hundreds of thousands of lives to do it.
And it didn't break right after the civil war ended. It took
decades. England (europe) wanted those same raw materials and
covertly supported the south. Slavery wasn't even an issue.
Economists agreed of the time, that Slavery would last only a few
decades anyway as slavery cost more than paying workers outright.

> WWI - Fought to help France and Great Britain

Again, economics. The US was trading partners with them. And
the trading lanes were being destroyed. Europe needed the US's
manufacturing and the US needed the input of the European's money
in trade. The US Government made it sound like the US was in
jeapordy with the "Huns" invading the US. Never would have
happened. Germany needed the US as a trading partner as well.

> WWII - Fought to keep the Japanese and Germans from taking over the world

The US was NEVER in jeapordy from an invasion. The Japanese,
Germany and the rest NEVER planned on invading the US. There was
just too much distance on the water to even attempt it. Even
today, it just can't be done. The US and Canada are just too
easy to defend against an invasion in reality. Now, in the
movies, anything is possible. It was about Economics.

> Korea - Fought to help the South Koreans maintain their freedoms

Who told you that? It was the stop of Communism from spreading.
The Domino affect that since been proven wrong.

> Vietnam - Fought to help the South Vietnamese maintain their freedoms, and
> yet a lot of items you buy in Wal-Mart are made there now

Again, the Domino affect. Since proven wrong since Communism
cannot be sustained.

> Grenada - Fought to evacuate American medical students
> Panama - Fought to get rid of a tyrant and drug king pin

You are leaving out the real reason. The Panama Canal. Again,
economics.

> Iraq I - Fought to kick Iraq out of Kuwait

Kuwait falls. Next, Saudi falls, and then the next and the next.
Leaving Saddam in complete control or nearly so of the Middle
Easter Oil. Saudi feared that they were next and they did not
have the might to stop Saddam. Iran would have fallen and so
would all the others over time. It's ecomonics for the US.

> Iraq II - Fought to get rid of a tyrant, although personally I don't think
> he had WMD

Never should have happened. Saddam was actually a stablizing
factor in the Middle east with the exception of the invasion of
Kuwait. The Middle East has become a real tenderbox over this
mistake.

> Afghanistan - Fought to catch and kill Osama Bin Laden

Osama is NOT the reason. Or not the main reason. The Alqeda was
the real reason. Allowing Afg to openly have Alq training camps
used to train terrorists. Even if the Middle East were to have
turned him over, nothing would have changed. The invasion was
necessary and Osama was used as a figurehead by both sides.

>
> Unfortunately I think Iraq and Afghanistan will go the way of Vietnam. The
> strong side will win and we will make all goody goody with them at the cost
> of thousands of American lives.

Iraq is won. It's time to go home. The Home Guard there can
handle it. Afg will end up the same way by 2014. As it stands
now, there is enough unrest by the moderates to prevent anything
like Afg to ever happen again. Modern Iraq and Afg have caused
other countries to take a good hard look at themselves.

>
> Time we stayed home to protect the home front, and not to reduce the defense
> budget to pre WWII levels. Dumb shits.

Diplomacy and War is used for Economic reasons more than anything
else. It always was. And it is more important today to use it
that way than ever before. The US can't just stay home like
that. The only thing standing in the way of WWIII is the US.

Your understanding of these things are on the same scale as your
understanding of other military things. Are you sure you
actually served?


>


--
http://tvmoviesforfree.com
for free movies and Nostalgic TV. Tons of Military shows and
programs.

[Daryl]

Many from the US (I am a Yank) talk only about the US exploits.
It was a true World War and the contribution from around the
globe made the win possible.

[Father Haskell]

We bombed, incinerated, nuked, and humiliated the
fuck out of them. What more do you want?

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 17:40:57 -0700, Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com>
wrote:

>Many from the US (I am a Yank) talk only about the US exploits.
>It was a true World War and the contribution from around the
>globe made the win possible.

Thank you.

My late father served in RAF Bomber Command during WW2, seeing action
over Germany in Lancaster bombers.

Like your friend the decorated submariner he was in a branch of the
service which had a very high attrition rate.

He wasn't decorated, but like most of those in all three services who
saw action he was a hero. Especially to me.

Both the RAF and the US Army Air Force lost a lot of brave men in
these missions because even after the arrival of the P51 the German
fighters were operating close to their bases.

And whatever you might think of the Germans, their fighter pilots were
just as brave in defence of their own country.

[Dakota]

The South continues to perpetuate the myth that slavery had nothing to
do with it. At least two of the rebel state constitutions specifically
endorsed slavery. What were the costs of slavery that exceeded the cost
of paying wages?

>
>> WWI - Fought to help France and Great Britain
>
> Again, economics. The US was trading partners with them. And the trading
> lanes were being destroyed. Europe needed the US's manufacturing and the
> US needed the input of the European's money in trade. The US Government
> made it sound like the US was in jeapordy with the "Huns" invading the
> US. Never would have happened. Germany needed the US as a trading
> partner as well.
>
>
>> WWII - Fought to keep the Japanese and Germans from taking over the world
>
> The US was NEVER in jeapordy from an invasion. The Japanese, Germany and
> the rest NEVER planned on invading the US. There was just too much
> distance on the water to even attempt it. Even today, it just can't be
> done. The US and Canada are just too easy to defend against an invasion
> in reality. Now, in the movies, anything is possible. It was about
> Economics.
>
>> Korea - Fought to help the South Koreans maintain their freedoms
>
> Who told you that? It was the stop of Communism from spreading. The
> Domino affect that since been proven wrong.
>
>> Vietnam - Fought to help the South Vietnamese maintain their freedoms,
>> and
>> yet a lot of items you buy in Wal-Mart are made there now
>
> Again, the Domino affect. Since proven wrong since Communism cannot be
> sustained.
>

While China has recognized the advantages of world trade, they remain a
communist state.

>
>> Grenada - Fought to evacuate American medical students
>> Panama - Fought to get rid of a tyrant and drug king pin
>
> You are leaving out the real reason. The Panama Canal. Again, economics.
>

The Panama Canal zone was returned to Panamanian control in 1999 per the
terms of treaties signed by President Carter in 1977 and ratified by
congress in 1979. The US went after Noriega in 1989 under the G. H. W.
Bush administration. Removing Noriega from power had no effect on the
transfer of the canal to the Panamanians.

>
>> Iraq I - Fought to kick Iraq out of Kuwait
>
> Kuwait falls. Next, Saudi falls, and then the next and the next. Leaving
> Saddam in complete control or nearly so of the Middle Easter Oil. Saudi
> feared that they were next and they did not have the might to stop
> Saddam. Iran would have fallen and so would all the others over time.
> It's ecomonics for the US.
>

Is this not another example of the "Domino affect that since (has) been
proven wrong."

>
>> Iraq II - Fought to get rid of a tyrant, although personally I don't
>> think
>> he had WMD
>
> Never should have happened. Saddam was actually a stablizing factor in
> the Middle east with the exception of the invasion of Kuwait. The Middle
> East has become a real tenderbox over this mistake.
>

True. But the US defense industry reaped huge profits which was the
original goal.

>
>> Afghanistan - Fought to catch and kill Osama Bin Laden
>
> Osama is NOT the reason. Or not the main reason. The Alqeda was the real
> reason. Allowing Afg to openly have Alq training camps used to train
> terrorists. Even if the Middle East were to have turned him over,
> nothing would have changed. The invasion was necessary and Osama was
> used as a figurehead by both sides.
>

You've omitted perhaps the primary reason for US involvement - oil.
Afghanistan could provide a route for a pipeline to carry oil from
neighboring countries on its northern border to the Indian Ocean.

>
>>
>> Unfortunately I think Iraq and Afghanistan will go the way of Vietnam.
>> The
>> strong side will win and we will make all goody goody with them at the
>> cost
>> of thousands of American lives.
>
> Iraq is won. It's time to go home. The Home Guard there can handle it.
> Afg will end up the same way by 2014. As it stands now, there is enough
> unrest by the moderates to prevent anything like Afg to ever happen
> again. Modern Iraq and Afg have caused other countries to take a good
> hard look at themselves.
>

Iraq is won only in the sense that the Vietnam war was won. It has
finally become unpopular so we've decided to pull out. As no goals were
specified at the start except finding and destroying non-existent WMD,
it's hard to say whether our goals were met. With the Sunni minority led
by Saddam out of power, the Shiite majority ruled Iraq will likely fall
under greater influence of Iran when we depart.

Afghanistan continues to be ruled more by tribal leaders than by the
national government we installed. Their 'home guard' is effective in a
tiny part of the country.

>
>> Time we stayed home to protect the home front, and not to reduce the
>> defense
>> budget to pre WWII levels. Dumb shits.
>
> Diplomacy and War is used for Economic reasons more than anything else.
> It always was. And it is more important today to use it that way than
> ever before. The US can't just stay home like that. The only thing
> standing in the way of WWIII is the US.
>

The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were essentially fought for economic
reasons but not the one's you're referring to. They were fought to dump
huge piles of cash into the hands of defense contractors and arms makers
and also to pave the way for a trans-Afghanistan pipeline that won't
happen in the foreseeable future.

[emoneyjoe]

The several states began the process of arming and
secession before Lincoln was even sworn in, the war
started over the secession, not any act concerning
slavery, although the secession was precipitated by
a speech by Lincoln made before election day, it
concerned slavery in the new territories (bought
from Napoleon in 1803, The Louisiana Purchase).

Give up on the conspiracy theories, members of
congress may favor constituencies, but they do not
write laws just to give industry work, the military has
to request money, and provide reasons for need,
the 1980s and early 1990s was a period when a
lot of weapon systems were being replaced.

>>> Afghanistan - Fought to catch and kill Osama Bin Laden
>>
>> Osama is NOT the reason. Or not the main reason. The Alqeda was the real
>> reason. Allowing Afg to openly have Alq training camps used to train
>> terrorists. Even if the Middle East were to have turned him over,
>> nothing would have changed. The invasion was necessary and Osama was
>> used as a figurehead by both sides.
>>
>You've omitted perhaps the primary reason for US involvement - oil.
>Afghanistan could provide a route for a pipeline to carry oil from
>neighboring countries on its northern border to the Indian Ocean.

Nonsense, weren't you around a TV then, the Taliban
was protecting Bin Laden, plain as day.

Both of you, and a lot of the left, and right, seem to
make up stuff that has no basis at all.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I want to thank all of the American and Allied Veterans who so
valiantly served the cause of freedom, democracy, and justice during
W.W. II.
My father and his two brothers served in the U.S. Armed Forces during
W.W. II. My father served as an Infantry Officer with the U.S. Army in
the European Theatre during W.W. II. He was seriously wounded in
action at Casino, Italy. Although my father suffered greatly because
of W.W. II, he retained a republican and egalitarian attitude which
forbade him from taking an inhumane, deprecating, and/or
discriminatory attitude towards his former W.W. II enemies. He was an
attorney-at law. This may be one of the reasons for this attitude.
The Japanese, German, and Italian people suffered greatly because of
the aggressive, illegal, and criminal wars that their leaders led them
into during W.W. II. History seldom notes this suffering. We should.
We should take the attitude that President Abraham Lincoln took with
regard to the Gettysburg Address noting that we should have "malice
towards none." A lasting peace requires justice. By demeaning our
former enemies, there will not be peace nor justice only continued
war. The ancient aristocratic doctrines of "noblesse obligee" and
"chivalry" came about, in part, because of the recognition that these
qualities produced a just and lasting peace.