yeshu, "J", "THAT maN"--ToMAtoe, TOmaTOE
Miriam Wolfe
If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
by Jews on this forum of:
yeshu
yeshu hanotzeri
THAT maN
"j"
"your idol"
the Nazerene
Cheers--
Mrs. Wolfe
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970123030...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@From: maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe)
@Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:55:26 -0600
@Message-ID: <mawolfe-2201...@aragorn211.nuts.nwu.edu>
@
@
@If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
@referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
@then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
@by Jews on this forum of:
@
@yeshu
@yeshu hanotzeri
@THAT maN
@"j"
@"your idol"
@the Nazerene
@
@
@Cheers--
@Mrs. Wolfe
@
@
@
@Why won't you admit what it means? Why is that so hard for you to do,
@Miriam? :-)
@
@Its one thing to use a term, another to duck when people ask what it
@means. I KNOW what it means, I just want to see if you are brave enough to
@admit it.
Plenty of people have asked this question in the past
and plenty of people are ready to answer. I think Josh
did a very good job explaining it to you.
Bob Felts
In article <mawolfe-2201...@aragorn211.nuts.nwu.edu>,
maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
| If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
| referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
| then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
| by Jews on this forum of:
|
| yeshu
| yeshu hanotzeri
| THAT maN
| "j"
| "your idol"
| the Nazerene
|
|
| Cheers--
| Mrs. Wolfe
Miriam, you're slipping. You forgot to include "godsicle".
__|_______ Through His love and through a ram,
| He saved the son of Abraham...
| Bob Felts But God demonstrates His own love for us,
| wr...@mindspring.com in that while we were still sinners,
| http://www.mindspring.com/~wrf3 Christ died for us.
OkiePilgrm
>Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
>Luv a bitch?
That remark is beyond discourtesy; it is absolutely abusive. You should
be unanimously censured by this entire newsgroup, and then unanimously
ignored henceforth.
>Why not SAY that you only WISH you had been Caiaphas, or Pilate,
>or one of the Roman soldiers?
>It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
>ADMIT it?
What do you care what Miriam thinks of Jesus? What is Jesus to you? I
acknowledge Him as my Savior and L-rd, and I am saddened that Miriam
esteems him not at all. But I can't imagine responding to her disdain for
Jesus with the kind of hatred you display--I can't imagine responding with
any hatred at all.
So why should you, to whom Jesus is much less than L-rd, much smaller than
the G-d of the Universe--why should you even care?
<snip>
>And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
>WHORE.
I hope somebody yanks your internet access. What's that email address for
usenet abuses? Somebody send it to me, and somebody get this guy out of
here.
--Lora B., ready for some gentleness and respect on this forum
Bob Felts
In article <5c8ci4$5...@venezuela.earthlink.net>, el...@earthlink.net wrote:
| maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
| >@
| >@If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
| >@referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
| >@then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
| >@by Jews on this forum of:
| >@
| >@yeshu
| >@yeshu hanotzeri
| >@THAT maN
| >@"j"
| >@"your idol"
| >@the Nazerene
|
| Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
| Luv a bitch?
Congratulations, Eli. You are the very second person to go into
my killfile.
One last comment before I never read another post of yours again:
You want to discuss religion, fine.
You want to make prophetic/idiotic utterances, fine.
But with your personal attack you stepped over the bounds.
So cram it, you ill-mannered offspring of a diseased camel.
[...]
Bob Felts
In article <5c92ra$q...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, nuc...@ix.netcom.com
(Fast Eddy) wrote:
| In <wrf3-ya02368000...@news.mindspring.com>
| Agh Sheesh bob, practice what you PREACH, you GOD-DAMNED Hypocrite! !
|
| P.S. upyours
You're #3. Bye.
MBMC
In article <5c8ci4$5...@venezuela.earthlink.net>, <el...@earthlink.net> wrote:
| maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
| >@
| >@If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
| >@referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
| >@then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
| >@by Jews on this forum of:
| >@
| >@yeshu
| >@yeshu hanotzeri
| >@THAT maN
| >@"j"
| >@"your idol"
| >@the Nazerene
|
| Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
| Luv a bitch?
|
| or one of the Roman soldiers?
|
| It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
| ADMIT it?
|
| to HATE Jesus as much as you do, and to exterminate the
| Christians with nuclear weapons?
|
| And, if this 'M'oshiach does NOT *HATE* Jesus?
|
| Well, maybe then HE should be crucified.
|
| How refreshing that would be--for you just to be HONEST.
|
| Instead we get BLOODTHIRSTY *coquetry*.
|
| I think you won't say these things because you are a COWARD.
|
| And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
| WHORE.
|
|
Wow. Let never the LOVE from a Christian be doubted again.
mbmc
el...@earthlink.net
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970123141...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@Plenty of people have asked this question in the past
@ and plenty of people are ready to answer. I think Josh
@did a very good job explaining it to you.<<
@
@
@But Miriam, I want *you* to answer. Why won't you? You are always so quick
@to answer my posts on other subjects. :-)
Do you always get what you want Annette?
Do you always give your children what they want?
Satisfactory answers have been given, content yourself with them.
Fast Eddy
>| >@
>| >@If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
>| >@referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
>| >@then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
>| >@by Jews on this forum of:
>| >@
>| >@yeshu
>| >@yeshu hanotzeri
>| >@THAT maN
>| >@"j"
>| >@"your idol"
>| >@the Nazerene
>|
>| Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
>| Luv a bitch?
>
>my killfile.
>
>One last comment before I never read another post of yours again:
>
>You want to discuss religion, fine.
>You want to make prophetic/idiotic utterances, fine.
>
>But with your personal attack you stepped over the bounds.
>
>So cram it, you ill-mannered offspring of a diseased camel.
>
Agh Sheesh bob, practice what you PREACH, you GOD-DAMNED Hypocrite! !
P.S. upyours
Fast Eddy
Jeffrey Bolden
yo...@icg.resnet.upenn.edu (MBMC) writes:
>| Michael (Daniel 12:1, Sura 2:98, ColumnXVII of 1QM)
>Wow. Let never the LOVE from a Christian be doubted again.
Michael is Muslim, not Christian, MBMC
Bruce Morgen
yo...@icg.resnet.upenn.edu (MBMC) wrote:
;>In article <5c8ci4$5...@venezuela.earthlink.net>, <el...@earthlink.net> wrote:
;>| maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
;>| >@
;>| >@If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
;>| >@referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
;>| >@then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
;>| >@by Jews on this forum of:
;>| >@
;>| >@yeshu
;>| >@yeshu hanotzeri
;>| >@THAT maN
;>| >@"j"
;>| >@"your idol"
;>| >@the Nazerene
;>|
;>| Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
;>| Luv a bitch?
;>|
;>| Why not SAY that you only WISH you had been Caiaphas, or Pilate,
;>| or one of the Roman soldiers?
;>|
;>| It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
;>| ADMIT it?
;>|
;>| Why not SAY that you await the 'M'oshiach to prove you right,
;>| to HATE Jesus as much as you do, and to exterminate the
;>| Christians with nuclear weapons?
;>|
;>| And, if this 'M'oshiach does NOT *HATE* Jesus?
;>|
;>| Well, maybe then HE should be crucified.
;>|
;>| How refreshing that would be--for you just to be HONEST.
;>|
;>| Instead we get BLOODTHIRSTY *coquetry*.
;>|
;>| I think you won't say these things because you are a COWARD.
;>|
;>| And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
;>| WHORE.
;>|
;>| Michael (Daniel 12:1, Sura 2:98, ColumnXVII of 1QM)
;>|
>
>Wow. Let never the LOVE from a Christian be doubted again.
>
I've yet to find a suitable label for
Michael, but he's no "Christian," not
even close. I for one find that
respectable.
Michael Shoshani
el...@earthlink.net wrote:
: maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
: >@
: >@If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
: >@referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
: >@then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
: >@by Jews on this forum of:
[bobbit]
: It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
: ADMIT it?
: Why not SAY that you await the 'M'oshiach to prove you right,
: to HATE Jesus as much as you do, and to exterminate the
: Christians with nuclear weapons?
: And, if this 'M'oshiach does NOT *HATE* Jesus?
: Well, maybe then HE should be crucified.
: How refreshing that would be--for you just to be HONEST.
: Instead we get BLOODTHIRSTY *coquetry*.
Coquetry?? Have you a dictionary around? I don't see Miriam
flirting with anyone. No batting of eyelashes, dropping of handkerchiefs,
etc. No coquette, she.
: I think you won't say these things because you are a COWARD.
: And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
: WHORE.
Wow. I guess even Archangels have to get their Percodan regularly.
--
shos...@wwa.com // In the beginning, God made idiots;
Michael Shoshani // This was for practice
Chicago IL, USA // Then he made school boards.
http://miso.wwa.com/~shoshani/ // --Mark Twain
Michael Shoshani
MBMC (yo...@icg.resnet.upenn.edu) wrote:
: In article <5c8ci4$5...@venezuela.earthlink.net>, <el...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[robespierre]
: |
: | And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
: | WHORE.
: |
: | Michael (Daniel 12:1, Sura 2:98, ColumnXVII of 1QM)
: |
: Wow. Let never the LOVE from a Christian be doubted again.
: mbmc
I believe that Michael is Islamic. I could be wrong, though.
el...@earthlink.net
okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) wrote:
>>Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
>>Luv a bitch?
>
GUFFAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
> You should
>be unanimously censured by this entire newsgroup, and then unanimously
>ignored henceforth.
What do you think happens RIGHT NOW?
Do you see me CRYING about it?
>
>>Why not SAY that you only WISH you had been Caiaphas, or Pilate,
>>or one of the Roman soldiers?
>
>>It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
>>ADMIT it?
>
>What do you care what Miriam thinks of Jesus?
That's the point. If she were HONEST it would be one thing. But
she plays this snide game of using specific words to express her
rage and then hides behind the smokescreen as if NO ONE can see
what she is doing.
> What is Jesus to you?
According to the Koran he is the messiah.
> I
>acknowledge Him as my Savior and L-rd, and I am saddened that Miriam
>esteems him not at all.
But wouldn't it be refreshing if she simply EXPRESSED that HATRED?
Would that not take just a little COURAGE to do so in the face of
you Christians?
> But I can't imagine responding to her disdain for
>Jesus with the kind of hatred you display--I can't imagine responding with
>any hatred at all.
Then you underestimate your own capacity for evil. Christians REALLY
want to say that they HATE the Jews for what they did to the INNOCENT
Jesus and the concoct a RAPTURE by which they escape but the JEWS are
left to burn in the fires of the 'tribulation' because they have
refused to accept Jesus as God.
And this from a religion of LUUUUUUUVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV.
>
>So why should you, to whom Jesus is much less than L-rd, much smaller than
>the G-d of the Universe--why should you even care?
>
><snip>
>
>>And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
>>WHORE.
>
>I hope somebody yanks your internet access.
This is a DOCTRINAL statement. It can be found in the books of the
prophets. Idolatry in the Revelation of John is referred to as
whorishness. Mirian is an idolator--in terms of her doctrine of
the 'M'oshiach, the metaphysical 'soul'etc. etc.
> What's that email address for
>usenet abuses? Somebody send it to me, and somebody get this guy out of
>here.
>
>--Lora B., ready for some gentleness and respect on this forum
I respond to VILE HATRED, and UNWARRANTED HATRED of Jesus.
OkiePilgrm
>Scripture says that it was God who put Jesus to death:
>Lora,
>Scripture says that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who put Jesus to
>death.
>See Psalm 2 and Acts 4.
DAMMIT, Annette! Would you PLEASE begin to pay attention to 1) Usenet
protocol, and 2) WHO is saying WHAT.
You're responding to Bob's remarks, not mine. I do happen to agree with
Bob, but that's beside the point.
You are going to confuse and anger people by REFUSING to observe the
simplest 'net courtesy. If that doesn't bring out the worst in the rest
of us, I don't know what will.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
--Lora B.
Matooshka Annie
Debra Fran Baker
In <19970124031...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) writes:
>I am not excusing what the previous poster said, but I do think the HATE
>that certain Jews here harbor for Jesus can bring the worst out of anyone.
We don't hate Jesus. He's nothing. We hate what his followers have done
and are trying to do.
You are a case in point. Thanks to them, you, your husband and your
children are lost to the Jews - and they even made you a party to that.
--
One sharp peppercorn is better than a basketful of melons.
-- Tractate Megillah 7A
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debra Fran Baker dfb...@panix.com
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970124031...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@Scripture says that it was God who put Jesus to death:
@
@
@
@Lora,
@
@Scripture says that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who put Jesus to death.
@See Psalm 2 and Acts 4.
@
@
@Matooshka Annie
BTW Psalm 2 is not about yeshu hanotzeri.
Miriam Wolfe
@Scripture says that it was God who put Jesus to death:
@
@
@
@Lora,
@
@Scripture says that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who put Jesus to death.
@See Psalm 2 and Acts 4.
And the NT in I Thess 2: 14-16 says it was The Jews.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970124130...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@That's the point. If she were HONEST it would be one thing. But
@she plays this snide game of using specific words to express her
@rage and then hides behind the smokescreen as if NO ONE can see
@what she is doing.
@
@
@Eli,
@
@That is my point, too.
@
@
@
@Matooshka Annie
You folks have wild imaginations.
1. I am not enraged, but you folks seem to be.
2. I have been very honest. Others have expressed
my reasons for my word selection, and I have acknowledged
that; your problem is that you are unwilling to accept the fact
that things are that simple.
Bob Felts
In article <mawolfe-2401...@pistachio186212.nuts.nwu.edu>,
maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
Because, as Acts 4 says, it was the predestined plan of God that
this happen.
But you don't really care, do you?
Bob Felts
In article <5c9t5v$s...@uruguay.earthlink.net>, el...@earthlink.net wrote:
| wr...@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) wrote:
| >In article <5c8ci4$5...@venezuela.earthlink.net>, el...@earthlink.net wrote:
[...]
| You are the very second person to go into
| >my killfile.
|
| Why, THANK YOU.
Which, for some reason, didn't take. I'll have to check the filter...
| >
| >One last comment before I never read another post of yours again:
| >
| >You want to discuss religion, fine.
| >You want to make prophetic/idiotic utterances, fine.
| >
| >But with your personal attack you stepped over the bounds.
|
| I stepped over the bounds a LONG time ago when I would not accept
| that the Christians and the Jews were speaking with the Voice of
| God Himself.
|
| The rest was a piece of cake.
| >
| >So cram it, you ill-mannered offspring of a diseased camel.
|
| Oh, I guess you don't LIKE Muslims, do you?
Why don't you learn how to think? That I don't like your behavior
doesn't mean that I don't like Muslims. Unless, of course, you
want to make the bigoted statement that all Muslims behave as
you do. Is that something you care to admit?
el...@earthlink.net
wr...@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) wrote:
>In article <5c8ci4$5...@venezuela.earthlink.net>, el...@earthlink.net wrote:
>Congratulations, Eli.
My name is Michael.
You are the very second person to go into
>my killfile.
Why, THANK YOU.
>
>One last comment before I never read another post of yours again:
>
>You want to discuss religion, fine.
>You want to make prophetic/idiotic utterances, fine.
>
>But with your personal attack you stepped over the bounds.
I stepped over the bounds a LONG time ago when I would not accept
that the Christians and the Jews were speaking with the Voice of
God Himself.
The rest was a piece of cake.
>
>So cram it, you ill-mannered offspring of a diseased camel.
Oh, I guess you don't LIKE Muslims, do you?
Maybe it is because the Koran explains just what you DON'T
understand about the Teaching of Jesus.
Oh PLEASE don't killfile me.
I NEED humorous responses like yours every now and then.
OkiePilgrm
On 24 January 1997, mawolfe wrote:
>In article <19970124030...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
[...]
>@WHOOOOOO! What's THIS and where is it coming from???
>Another shining example of real xianity Annette.
Doggone it, Miriam! This guy doesn't call himself a Christian, and nobody
else calls him one either. He's some self-proclaimed muslim prophet.
He and Jerry ought to start their own ng.
--Lora B.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <wrf3-ya02368000...@news.mindspring.com>,
wr...@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) wrote:
@In article <mawolfe-2401...@pistachio186212.nuts.nwu.edu>,
@maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
@
@| In article <19970124031...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
@| mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@|
@| @Scripture says that it was God who put Jesus to death:
@| @
@| @
@| @
@| @Lora,
@| @
@| @Scripture says that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who put Jesus to death.
@| @See Psalm 2 and Acts 4.
@|
@|
@| And the NT in I Thess 2: 14-16 says it was The Jews.
@
@Because, as Acts 4 says, it was the predestined plan of God that
@this happen.
That's what I Thess 2 says Bob.
Moshe Shulman
>From: mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
>Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
>Luv a bitch?
>Why not SAY that you only WISH you had been Caiaphas, or Pilate,
>or one of the Roman soldiers?
>It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
>ADMIT it?
>Why not SAY that you await the 'M'oshiach to prove you right,
>to HATE Jesus as much as you do, and to exterminate the
>Christians with nuclear weapons?
>And, if this 'M'oshiach does NOT *HATE* Jesus?
>Well, maybe then HE should be crucified.
>How refreshing that would be--for you just to be HONEST.
>Instead we get BLOODTHIRSTY *coquetry*.
>I think you won't say these things because you are a COWARD.
>And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
>WHORE.
>Michael (Daniel 12:1, Sura 2:98, ColumnXVII of 1QM)
>WHOOOOOO! What's THIS and where is it coming from???
Ann, I am glad that you have shown us this example of Christian love
that you have been taught. Doesn't seem to have taken so long for
this to come out. (BTW the real J was probably nothing like what you
think he was, and I doubt Miraim or I would have a problem with him,
while you would hate him for being too Jewish.)
--
+=========================+=========================+
| /\ | |
| ____/_ \____ | |
| \ ___\ \ / | |
| \/ / \/ / | Moshe Shulman |
| / /\__/_/\ | mshu...@ix.netcom.com |
| /__\ \_____\ | |
| \ / | |
| \/ | |
+=========================+=========================+
Jeffrey Bolden
mshu...@ix.netcom.com(Moshe Shulman) writes:
>>From: mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
Moshe you own Annette an apology. Michael not Annette wrote what you are
responding to.
Annette only wrote the last line
MBMC
In article <5cau4k$s...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>,
I wonder what it would do to the beliefs of many if JEsus was actually
a short bald (Jewish, obviously) guy like George on Seinfeld... probably
a little darker (blackish, like a sefardi) on top of it.
All those pictures of the tall georgeous white guy probably are
just a figment of people's imagination and HOPES. What else can
they be?
Lo sa'ase kol timunah... (if Jesus is God, then all of them are
breaking the #1)
OkiePilgrm
On 24 January 1997,
mshu...@ix.netcom.com(Moshe Shulman) wrote:
>>From: mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
>>Scripture says that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who put Jesus to
death.
>>See Psalm 2 and Acts 4.
>Psalm 2 is not about J, and does not refer to the King dying. Look at
>Psalms 89. (See Ed, I can type it correct sometimes.)
Whoa, Moshe. I looked at what you wrote above, and my first thought was,
"Moshe is saying that, for Psalm 2 to be referring to Jesus, it would have
to refer to a dying King." I know you're not saying that. Would somebody
who does the logic stuff write out Moshe's statements as some sort of
theorem/proof and draw a conclusion.
I know this seems like a dorky, dumb post, but I'm being serious.
To me, it looked like this:
1. Psalm 2 is not about Jesus
2. Psalm 2 is not about a King dying
3. See Psalm 89.
What I'm wondering is, why--logically speaking--does Moshe include the
second premise? And what is the conclusion? And how is Psalm 89
connected?
--Lora B., at Jeff's instigation trying to think more logically
el...@earthlink.net
>>Luv a bitch?
>>Why not SAY that you only WISH you had been Caiaphas, or Pilate,
>>or one of the Roman soldiers?
>>It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
>>ADMIT it?
>>Why not SAY that you await the 'M'oshiach to prove you right,
>>to HATE Jesus as much as you do, and to exterminate the
>>Christians with nuclear weapons?
>>And, if this 'M'oshiach does NOT *HATE* Jesus?
>>Well, maybe then HE should be crucified.
>>How refreshing that would be--for you just to be HONEST.
>>Instead we get BLOODTHIRSTY *coquetry*.
>>I think you won't say these things because you are a COWARD.
>>And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
>>WHORE.
>>Michael (Daniel 12:1, Sura 2:98, ColumnXVII of 1QM)
>>WHOOOOOO! What's THIS and where is it coming from???
>
>Ann, I am glad that you have shown us this example of Christian love
>that you have been taught. Doesn't seem to have taken so long for
>this to come out. (BTW the real J was probably nothing like what you
>think he was, and I doubt Miraim or I would have a problem with him,
Miriam would.
Count on it.
663, 664, 665, 666...
Michael
el...@earthlink.net
There is NO SUCH VERB as 'think'--because there is no 'thinker'.
There are *thoughts*.
Now do you want to rephrase the question?
> That I don't like your behavior
>doesn't mean that I don't like Muslims. Unless, of course, you
>want to make the bigoted statement that all Muslims behave as
>you do.
NOT A CHANCE.
el...@earthlink.net
okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) wrote:
>>
>Doggone it, Miriam! This guy doesn't call himself a Christian, and nobody
>else calls him one either.
Why, THANK YOU.
> He's some self-proclaimed muslim prophet.
Have NEVER *ONCE* STATED: "I am a prophet"--Muslim or any other
kind.
>
>He and Jerry ought to start their own ng.
Look. Right now I guess I have about 4 or 5 newsgroups.
What would I do with ANOTHER?
OkiePilgrm
On 24 January 1997, el...@earthlink.net wrote:
>okiep...@aol.com wrote
<snip>
>> But I can't imagine responding to her disdain for
>>Jesus with the kind of hatred you display--I can't imagine responding
with
>>any hatred at all.
>Then you underestimate your own capacity for evil. Christians REALLY
>want to say that they HATE the Jews for what they did to the INNOCENT
>Jesus and the concoct a RAPTURE by which they escape but the JEWS are
>left to burn in the fires of the 'tribulation' because they have
>refused to accept Jesus as God.
No, *you* hate the Jews. You want to speak hatefully. Apparently, you
hate Christians as well. Seems as though you have more than enough hate
to go around.
"Give, and it shall be given unto you, pressed down and running over."
Tell us, why do you like people to hate you?
--Lora B.
Moshe Shulman
>From: mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
>Scripture says that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who put Jesus to
death.
>See Psalm 2 and Acts 4.
Psalm 2 is not about J, and does not refer to the King dying. Look at
Psalms 89. (See Ed, I can type it correct sometimes.)
--
Fast Eddy
In <mawolfe-2401...@pistachio186206.nuts.nwu.edu>
maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) writes:
>
>In article <19970124162...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) wrote:
>
>@On 24 January 1997, mawolfe wrote:
>@
>@
>@>@WHOOOOOO! What's THIS and where is it coming from???
>@
>@>Another shining example of real xianity Annette.
>@
>@Doggone it, Miriam! This guy doesn't call himself a Christian, and
nobody
>@else calls him one either. He's some self-proclaimed muslim prophet.
>@
>@He and Jerry ought to start their own ng.
>
>Well Lora--Samson and Fast Eddy are other shining
>examples of xian love.
Hy too you Ma!--- Marilyn and Miriam are shining examples of love for
xians.-- I'm a sheep in wolves clothing! A blessing in Disguise..
(selah)
Fast Eddy
MBMC
In article <19970124031...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,| Lora,
|
| Scripture says that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who put Jesus to death.
| See Psalm 2 and Acts 4.
|
|
Even if it were true, which I'm NOT saying it was, you fruitcakes
should be THANKING the Jews. Why? You wouldn't have reached your
"salvation" without this.
And since it was all part of the God SALVATION plan since
Original Sin, why do you blame jews?
mbmc
Bob Felts
In article <5cbpc4$d...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, bol...@math.umn.edu (Jeffrey
Bolden) wrote:
| wr...@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) writes:
|
|
| >Maybe you and Lora should get together via e-mail. You both use AOL
| >(which I do not), and Lora seems to have the software mastered. If
| >you both use the same software, then she ought to be able to help.
|
| It sounds to me like Lora and Zvi have trouble too. What they all should
| do is save lots of money and lots of headaches and get a different ISP.
I don't think Zvi's headaches were caused by AOL. ;-)
However, anybody know how he's doing?
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970124195...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@Now that's interesting, tell me what I am thinking.
@
@
@Miriam,
@
@Dodge the original question all you want. It doesn't matter. It only makes
@you look worse. <g>
@
@
@Matooshka Annie
Can you or can't you read my mind as you claimed?
The question was answered.
el...@earthlink.net
wr...@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) wrote:
>In article <5c8uf7$5...@peru.it.earthlink.net>, el...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>| okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) wrote:
>[...]
>
>|
>| Then you underestimate your own capacity for evil.
>
GUFFAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
>
>| Christians REALLY
>| want to say that they HATE the Jews for what they did to the INNOCENT
>| Jesus
>
>Scripture says that it was God who put Jesus to death:
Since WHEN have Christians CARED what the Scripture says?
>
>| and the concoct a RAPTURE by which they escape but the JEWS are
>| left to burn in the fires of the 'tribulation' because they have
>| refused to accept Jesus as God.
>
>Been reading too much from the Scofield Reference Bible, have you?
Not even ONCE.
>
>|
>| And this from a religion of LUUUUUUUVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV.
>
>And this from a supposed prophet of God.
POINT to me where I have EVER said: "I am a prophet of God."
EVER. EVER.
>
>I'm sorry I'd hadn't gotten around to modifying my killfie yet.
Well, please DO.
Bob Felts
In article <mawolfe-2401...@pistachio186212.nuts.nwu.edu>,
maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
[...]
|
| Now don't get me wrong Annette, I don't need your protection,
| I can take care of myself;
Shall we remember this the next time a little tin-plated dictator
with delusions of grandeur decides to make the Jews the target
of his hatred?
Miriam Wolfe
@On 24 January 1997, mawolfe wrote:
@
@>In article <19970124030...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
@>mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@
@[...]
@
@>@WHOOOOOO! What's THIS and where is it coming from???
@
@>Another shining example of real xianity Annette.
@
@Doggone it, Miriam! This guy doesn't call himself a Christian, and nobody
@else calls him one either. He's some self-proclaimed muslim prophet.
@
@He and Jerry ought to start their own ng.
Well Lora--Samson and Fast Eddy are other shining
examples of xian love.
Anyway, we who have been here a long time do know that Michael does claim
to follow the teaching of yeshu, also Mohammed, if fact michael Eli
professes to have the accurate take on yeshu's pov--so in that regard he
is associated with xianity.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <5cb1k5$a...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, bol...@math.umn.edu (Jeffrey
Bolden) wrote:
@mshu...@ix.netcom.com(Moshe Shulman) writes:
@
@>>From: mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
@
@>>Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
@>>Luv a bitch?
@>>Why not SAY that you only WISH you had been Caiaphas, or Pilate,
@>>or one of the Roman soldiers?
@>>It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
@>>ADMIT it?
@>>Why not SAY that you await the 'M'oshiach to prove you right,
@>>to HATE Jesus as much as you do, and to exterminate the
@>>Christians with nuclear weapons?
@>>And, if this 'M'oshiach does NOT *HATE* Jesus?
@>>Well, maybe then HE should be crucified.
@>>How refreshing that would be--for you just to be HONEST.
@>>Instead we get BLOODTHIRSTY *coquetry*.
@>>I think you won't say these things because you are a COWARD.
@>>And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
@>>WHORE.
@>>Michael (Daniel 12:1, Sura 2:98, ColumnXVII of 1QM)
@>>WHOOOOOO! What's THIS and where is it coming from???
@
@>Ann, I am glad that you have shown us this example of Christian love
@>that you have been taught. Doesn't seem to have taken so long for
@>this to come out. (BTW the real J was probably nothing like what you
@>think he was, and I doubt Miraim or I would have a problem with him,
@>while you would hate him for being too Jewish.)
@
@Moshe you own Annette an apology. Michael not Annette wrote what you are
@responding to.
@
@Annette only wrote the last line
Actually Jeffery, Moshe does *not* owe Annette an apology, her later
comments are demonstration of her loose argreement with Michael Eli's
sentiments.
Miriam Wolfe
@Look. Why not simply be HONEST with yourself and others, Ms.
@Luv a bitch?
@
@Why not SAY that you only WISH you had been Caiaphas, or Pilate,
@or one of the Roman soldiers?
@
@It is obvious in SPADES what you feel for Jesus. Why not just
@ADMIT it?
@
@Why not SAY that you await the 'M'oshiach to prove you right,
@to HATE Jesus as much as you do, and to exterminate the
@Christians with nuclear weapons?
@
@And, if this 'M'oshiach does NOT *HATE* Jesus?
@
@Well, maybe then HE should be crucified.
@
@How refreshing that would be--for you just to be HONEST.
@
@Instead we get BLOODTHIRSTY *coquetry*.
@
@I think you won't say these things because you are a COWARD.
@
@And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
@WHORE.
@
@Michael (Daniel 12:1, Sura 2:98, ColumnXVII of 1QM)
@
@
@
@
@
@WHOOOOOO! What's THIS and where is it coming from???
Miriam Wolfe
@Wow. Let never the LOVE from a Christian be doubted again.
@
@mbmc<<
@
@
@I am not excusing what the previous poster said, but I do think the HATE
@that certain Jews here harbor for Jesus can bring the worst out of anyone.
@
Hey Annette, you adopted another grand Catholic/xian
tradition, blame the victim. Many in Church history have
felt the Jews got what they deserved, nodded and winked
at xian persecution of the Jews throughout the centuries.
I don't hate your deity, in fact I think the character in the NT
is not a real person but an amalgam of several people; what
I do hate is are false claims of fulfilled prophecies and all other
kinds of lies. Lies, like xianity is the religion of love, are abundant
and easily stood on their heads, by actions and remarks such as
yours here. A real xian, would have condemned Michael Eli in
no uncertain terms.
You recently made the claim of being willing to lay your lie down
for someone else, and I said that those are words spoken now
and when put to the test you very likely would do otherwise.
When we mentioned Church endorsed perseuction of the Jews,
you mentioned that there were a few xians who hid Jews and
were jailed for their actions. More lofty words on your part.
I reminded you that too few xians actually lived up to the
xian commandment to lay one's life down for someone else,
hence 6 million innocent Jews went to their matyred deaths.
Your response to Michael Eli, shows what you are made of--
hollow sounds & empty words. Michael is attmeping an
assination here, and rather than taking the bullet yourself
or trying to "stop" him, you stand by and say Michael you're
right Miriam is a Luv A Bitch, she deserves it.
Now don't get me wrong Annette, I don't need your protection,
I can take care of myself; I am merely pointing out that you
are just another failed xian who can not live up to your rhetoric.
Joshua Moss
On 24 Jan 1997, MATOOSHKA wrote:
> I am not excusing what the previous poster said, but I do think the HATE
> that certain Jews here harbor for Jesus can bring the worst out of anyone.
Jesus is dead. My love, faith, or devotion cannot help him. My insults or
ill will cannot harm him. Nothing I do affects him in any way.
So what Jews (or anyone else) today may feel about Jesus makes absolutely
no difference. It cannot bring out the worst in anyone. It cannot do
anything at all.
OTOH I recognize that Jesus is the symbol of a great culture. I have no
desire publicly to desecrate the symbol "Jesus" any more than I would want
anyone publicly to piss on the American flag or defile a menorah.
OTOH there are plenty of Christians who get angry simply because we do not
*salute* the flag of a religion we are not members of. I don't salute
Jesus. I don't hate him. "Jesus" is the symbol of another culture and as
such I would respect the symbol "Jesus" the way I would honor the flag of
France. I would neither desecrate nor salute it. I would say nothing
either way. Unless France declares war on the U.S., or unless Christians
attempt to win Jews away from Judaism in the name of Jesus. Then I might
get forced off of my neutrality.
Annie, that is exactly what this newsgroup IS. A place for missionaries to
do their thing and get the reaction they get. And above all, to keep the
discussion off of the mainstream Jewish newsgroups.) It's that gritty
realism that makes alt.messianic so compelling to those of us who have
nothing better to do with our time. Don't whine about it. Y'all made the
first move. Y'all want us to convert. We have no corresponding interest in
taking over your culture. Wave your flag on your soil, we will show it due
respect. Try to plant it on our soil, and we will burn it. Welcome to the
real world.
Joshua
Randolph Parrish
dfb...@panix.com (Debra Fran Baker) wrote:
>We don't hate Jesus.
ROTFL. Try looking at the contempt he receives from this group
'godsickle', 'yeshu' , 'mamzer', 'voilent crank', etc. etc. (not to
meniton Toledoth Yeshu, etc. --even the sages--and they're supposed to
be SAGES--can't come up with anyting better than the equivalent of
lavatory scarwls. NOBODY has ever been hated like Jesus.
Fast Eddy
In <19970124130...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mato...@aol.com
(MATOOSHKA) writes:
Do you always get what you want Annette?
Do you always give your children what they want?
Satisfactory answers have been given, content yourself with them.
Miriam,
Why are you AFRAID to tell me why YOU personally use the term "yeshu"?
You're up against the wall, in the corner, with no place to run.
Matooshka Annie
(who knows why Miriam uses the term, but wants to hear it from
Miriam herself....)
He he---You M a t oo s h k a -------Crack Meeeee up ;)
Fast Eddy
Miriam Wolfe
@>And it is for this reason that I consider you WORSE than a
@>WHORE.
@
@I hope somebody yanks your internet access. What's that email address for
@usenet abuses? Somebody send it to me, and somebody get this guy out of
@here.
@
@--Lora B., ready for some gentleness and respect on this forum
@
@
@I must say though, Lora, that some people DO bring out the worst in
@others.
Yes, Annette, Michael has brought out the worst in you.
We see what kind of xian love shines in your heart, its
the kind that has turned Jews off to xianity for 2000 years.
Jacob, said your comments are a thinnly veiled anti-semitism,
I wasn't sure I agreed; but now I again see Jacob's wisdom.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970124130...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@Do you always get what you want Annette?
@Do you always give your children what they want?
@
@
@Satisfactory answers have been given, content yourself with them.
@
@
@Miriam,
@
@Why are you AFRAID to tell me
ROTFLOL.
Fear has nothing to do with it my dear.
@why YOU personally use the term "yeshu"?
Because it suits my purposes.
@You're up against the wall, in the corner, with no place to run.
Actually I am sitting at my computer desk in my
spacious 2nd floor bedroom. From here I can either go into
the greenhouse or I can go downstairs or down the hall.
I don't let my kids run through the house, so why would
I want to do it myself?
@Matooshka Annie
@(who knows why Miriam uses the term, but wants to hear it from
@Miriam herself....)
Randolph Parrish
maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
>I don't hate your deity,
'godsickle', 'yeshu', 'violent crank' (don't you really
know better than this?) We'd never know it from your posts.
Bob Felts
In article <19970124205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
[...]
|
| PS: Does anyone know how to read new msgs without having to plow thru all
| the OLD ones????
Maybe you and Lora should get together via e-mail. You both use AOL
(which I do not), and Lora seems to have the software mastered. If
you both use the same software, then she ought to be able to help.
__|_______ Through His love and through a ram,
Jeffrey Bolden
okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) writes:
>On 24 January 1997,
>mshu...@ix.netcom.com(Moshe Shulman) wrote:
>>>From: mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
>>>Scripture says that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who put Jesus to
>death.
>>>See Psalm 2 and Acts 4.
>>Psalm 2 is not about J, and does not refer to the King dying. Look at
>>Psalms 89. (See Ed, I can type it correct sometimes.)
>Whoa, Moshe. I looked at what you wrote above, and my first thought was,
>"Moshe is saying that, for Psalm 2 to be referring to Jesus, it would have
>to refer to a dying King." I know you're not saying that. Would somebody
>who does the logic stuff write out Moshe's statements as some sort of
>theorem/proof and draw a conclusion.
1. Psalm 2 is not about Jesus (which btw should probably be proven given
its content)
2. Psalm 2 does not refer to the king dying (contradicting Annettes claim
that psalm 2 provides evidence that both Jews and Gentiles but Jesus to
death)
3. Psalm 89 (the psalm appears messianic I'm not sure what the point of
the reference is it is not made explicit).
Actually you have it correct below. This is in the form of 3 unconnected
statements. Two make an assertion without evidence, the 3rd gives a
reference.
>I know this seems like a dorky, dumb post, but I'm being serious.
Not at all.
>To me, it looked like this:
>1. Psalm 2 is not about Jesus
>2. Psalm 2 is not about a King dying
>3. See Psalm 89.
>What I'm wondering is, why--logically speaking--does Moshe include the
>second premise?
There is no conclusion. These are statements not premises.
>And what is the conclusion?
It is in an implicit form. What it is I don't know.
>And how is Psalm 89 connected?
Good question.
>--Lora B., at Jeff's instigation trying to think more logically
Nicely done!
OkiePilgrm
=Miriam,
=You owe every Christian on this board an apology for the blaphemous
things
=you have said about Jesus Christ. And until you do apologize, dont expect
=anyone to be sympathetic to your religious concerns.
=Matooshka Annie
Well, I have seen people on this board jump up and demand an apology on
behalf of another participant who was the target of very vicious, or very
careless, words. I have seen people demand apologies for themselves, for
real or perceived wrongs.
And I suppose if you feel that Miriam has wronged you, then you are within
your rights to demand an apology.
For my part, I don't think Miriam owes me any apology at all. (I'm
calling myself a Christian here, in case nobody is noticing.) "The
servant is not greater than the Master," you know. He's the one being
insulted, and if he can take it, I can take it. To tell you the truth, I
haven't even been offended at all by what Miriam has said. I don't feel
personally wronged. And, to be quite honest, I don't think Jesus takes it
personally either. (Jeff, *don't* jump on my theology here. I'm speaking
from that emotive/intuitive mindframe, so just let it pass ;-)
I know. I can hear it coming: "If you had any real love for the L-rd,
you'd..." I'd what? I'd remember, "If you love me, keep my
commandments." I've got enough to do to worry about that, without
hyperventilating every time someone calls Jesus an "ill-tempered crank,"
or a "godsicle" or whatever. It's really between Miriam and Jesus;
they'll work it out between them.
--Lora B.
Jeffrey Bolden
wr...@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) writes:
>Maybe you and Lora should get together via e-mail. You both use AOL
>(which I do not), and Lora seems to have the software mastered. If
>you both use the same software, then she ought to be able to help.
It sounds to me like Lora and Zvi have trouble too. What they all should
Bob Felts
In article <19970125141...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) wrote:
| On 25 January 1997, mato...@aol.com wrote:
|
| =Jeff,
|
| =I just spent two posts trying to explain that Michael wrote that, not me.
| =But I think they KNOW that. I refuse to take part i this sort of thing
| =anymore and have words I did NOT say attributed to me on purpose.
|
| =Matooshka Annie
|
| THEN START ATTRIBUTING QUOTATIONS CORRECTLY.
|
Doesn't the AOL software automatically do this? Isn't there someway
you can turn on "auotmatically quote material in a reply"? Mine does.
Saves an awful lot of time from having to type in ">".
Jeffrey Bolden
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) writes:
>Moshe you own Annette an apology. Michael not Annette wrote what you are
>responding to.
>Jeff,
>I just spent two posts trying to explain that Michael wrote that, not me.
>But I think they KNOW that. I refuse to take part i this sort of thing
>anymore and have words I did NOT say attributed to me on purpose.
Annette having cleared up the thing with Moshe, you really do need to mark
things better. Names on each section etc...
Jeffrey Bolden
wr...@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) writes:
>Doesn't the AOL software automatically do this? Isn't there someway
>you can turn on "auotmatically quote material in a reply"? Mine does.
>Saves an awful lot of time from having to type in ">".
As far as I can tell the AOL softare does quite a bit. But there are lots
of different versions, they change it all the time, and the defaults are
set badely. But there certainly are AOL posters who get the system
running smoothly.
Debra Fran Baker
In <19970124195...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) writes:
>You are a case in point. Thanks to them, you, your husband and your
>children are lost to the Jews - and they even made you a party to that.
>Debra,
>I *chose* to become a Catholic. And my husband, though of Jewish ancestry,
>became a Christian *before* he met me. He just had not become a *Catholic*
>one. His mom, tho of Jewish birth, is a Baptist and raised him as one.
Oh. How very, very sad.
So it's a second generation loss. I know of a number of people like that
(I seem to have a collection, in fact.) Some of them weren't even aware
they were Jews until they were adult - and only one has found her way
back. She was very surprised when she and her children did not have to
convert.
Tomorrow, we are going to the bris of a boy born to a Jewish mother and a
non-Jewish father. Jonathan will be sondek at the parent's request
(Orthodox mohel aware of the situation.) We know that this little boy
will be raised in ignorance of his heritage, and that there will be little
we can do to change that, other than being among Mommy and Daddy's
religious friends. He will not be baptized, of course, not that that
matters. We can still hope and pray that he will come to embrace his
heritage.
Your children will be lost. Your son will probably not find a Jewish wife
unless he returns (God willing!), so your grandchildren by him will
certainly not be Jewish. And your daughter's children will be even sadder
- Jews who probably will not even be aware of this fact. I know of people
like this. And thus the Jewish people will be poorer and smaller.
--
One sharp peppercorn is better than a basketful of melons.
-- Tractate Megillah 7A
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debra Fran Baker dfb...@panix.com
Debra Fran Baker
I can't comment on Toldet Yeshu. Mamzer is not a term of hate, it's a
technical term. There are even discussions in the Talmud about a mamzer
Kohen gadol. Godsickle is a term of derision, not hatred. And anyone
who destroys a fruit tree for not bearing out of season is A. violent and
B. a crank. That still doesn't mean we hate him - it means we deplore his
conduct.
If you search all of Jewish literature, you will find little about that
man. You might find comments about his followers and what they've done to
us, or how we should relate to non-Jews in general. Mostly, Jewish
literature *ignores* him and his followers as it has more important things
to worry about.
Debra
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970125005...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@ Now don't get me wrong Annette, I don't need your protection,
@| I can take care of myself;
@
@Shall we remember this the next time a little tin-plated dictator
@with delusions of grandeur decides to make the Jews the target
@of his hatred?
@
@Bob,
@
@This is what I was hinting at in my other topic, when I said that Jewish
@attacks against Jesus can only backfire at a time when Christian help
@would be needed. I hate to see anyone create hatred against themselves.
@
@
Boy oh boy Annette you do need to learn a few things
about xianity. Ever heard of loving you enemy? It one
of Bob's favorite mantras.
xians are COMPELLED by the words of yeshu hanotzeri
to love and do good to those who hate you, for xians are no
better than theives if they only love those and do good to those
who love and do good to them! If you folks can get beyond
our resistence to xianity to do the right thing, the moral
thing--then you are all failures.
Miriam Wolfe
@ Jesus is dead.
@
@No, He isn't. :-)
Sure he is. He's as dead as Elvis.
Miriam Wolfe
@Your response to Michael Eli, shows what you are made of--
@hollow sounds & empty words. Michael is attmeping an
@assination here, and rather than taking the bullet yourself
@or trying to "stop" him, you stand by and say Michael you're
@right Miriam is a Luv A Bitch, she deserves it.
@
@Now don't get me wrong Annette, I don't need your protection,
@I can take care of myself; I am merely pointing out that you
@are just another failed xian who can not live up to your rhetoric.
@
@
@Miriam,
@
@You have given me *no reason* to defend you. I do not defend the enemies
@of my Savior. Period. I don't care if they are Jews OR Gentiles.
Then you are not a real xian.
@
@
@
@Matooshka Annie
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970125133...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@Yes, Annette, Michael has brought out the worst in you.
@We see what kind of xian love shines in your heart, its
@the kind that has turned Jews off to xianity for 2000 years.
@
@Jacob, said your comments are a thinnly veiled anti-semitism,
@I wasn't sure I agreed; but now I again see Jacob's wisdom.
@
@
@I did not say what you quoted me as saying!
Show us the quote dearheart. With hundreds of posts a day you
are asking too much from all of us to read your mind or
remember every word of every post.
@Michael the Muslim said that
@you are 'worse than a whore'.
Yes, he did. No one said you said that Annette.
Your problem is that you agreed with him implicitly
by saying that I deserve his attack.
@And as for "xian love", having seen the vitriol that you especially as
@well as some other Jews here espouse for Jesus, I can understand why a lot
@of things that happened, happened.
Annette, I ought to warn you, that you are digging yourself
into a dark, dark pit' you are showing yourself to be an anti-semite.
Our history has had many unfortunate cases of Jews converting
to xianity and then turn on their people and heritage further by
pouring gasoline on the fire of xian anti-semitism.
Do you realise that you are saying, that the only Jew is a quiet
and cowering Jew?
There is only so much that even
@Christians will take when people continually hammer away at their faith
@and mock their beloved Savior.
So your "saviour" is extremely limited Annette?
What happened to yeshu living in you?
Your comments here underscore the point I have
been making in other parts of this thread and on
the issue of abortion, that xians speak a lot of rhetoric
and spout idealistic modes of behaviour, but when the
shit hits the fan--you'll revert to basic human instinicts
like the Will of Survive--kill the fetus and SAVE the mother
afterall you have the rest of your life to feel guilty or repent!
Miriam, you CAN'T CONTINUALLY blaspheme
@Jesus and mock the faith of Christians and then expect them to DEFEND YOU.
I don't expect you or any other xian to defend me Annette,
that's exactly point, which was proven 6 million times over
in Europe not too long ago. Either you stand up for decency
and morality Annette or you are a fraud to your rhetoric.
I think Bob Felts, who called you "sister", can explain to you
the great error of your ways here. Bob tells us that there
are really very few xians, and that those who call themselves
xians aren't. Bob, do you think Annette is in that category?
"Not everyone who calls lord, lord will enter the
kingdom of heaven ONLY those who obey my commandments."
@Christians are bound to forgive those who insult THEM, but not those who
@mock the Savior.
According to the NT you are 100% wrong on this matter
Annette, the earth is shaking beneath your feet, turn your eyes
to some of the alledged last words of yeshu hanotzeri
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
Luke 23:34
And in another location:
"Any one who insults the son of man will be forgiven,
but anyone who insults the holy spirit will not be forgiven."
Matt 12:32
Don't you folks call yeshu "the son of man"?
@You CANNOT continually hammer away at Jesus with the intent of stirring
@them up and insulting their most beloved Savior, and then cry "anti
@semitism! antisemitism!" when they take offense and blast back in defense
@of Christ.
yeshu's dead, he could care less about what I say about the NT.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970125134...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@Moshe you own Annette an apology. Michael not Annette wrote what you are
@responding to.
@
@Jeff,
@
@I just spent two posts trying to explain that Michael wrote that, not me.
@But I think they KNOW that. I refuse to take part i this sort of thing
@anymore and have words I did NOT say attributed to me on purpose.
@
@Matooshka Annie
Annette, you are (once again) mistaken. No one has misattributed
Michael Eli's words to you. We are pointing out your tacit argeement
with Michael's words and his attack.
OkiePilgrm
On 25 January 1997, mato...@aol.com wrote:
=Jeff,
=I just spent two posts trying to explain that Michael wrote that, not me.
=But I think they KNOW that. I refuse to take part i this sort of thing
=anymore and have words I did NOT say attributed to me on purpose.
=Matooshka Annie
THEN START ATTRIBUTING QUOTATIONS CORRECTLY.
Annette, don't play dumb anymore. I have emailed you telling you how to
attribute quotes in your posts, and I've posted to this board. So don't
act like nobody's tried to help you.
One more time, here's a hint: LOOK at the format of others' posts on the
board. Make your format look like theirs.
When we're quoting somebody else, we say, "On such and such a date,
so-and-so wrote:"
Then we offset their quotes by some symbol in front of EACH LINE OF TEXT.
Maybe a = or a > or a ? -- SOMETHING, some non-textual symbol, which lets
people know, "What you are reading now is not what I said."
You have noticed that there are layers of quotes--people quoting people
quoting people. The most recent layer--the person you're quoting
directly--only has one symbol in front of it. The person *they're*
quoting has two symbols, and so on.
Here's an example. Let's pretend you write this post. You would say:
On 25 January 1997, okiepilgrm wrote:
>On 24 January 1997, matooshka wrote: <--see, you're quoting me here
>>I don't know how to format my posts. <--you're quoting me quoting you
>Get with the program!!! <--you're quoting me
Well, Okie, don't be so cranky. <--this is what you say after the quoting
That's about as basic an example as I can think of.
Please DO NOT whine about how people attribute to you things you didn't
say. If you follow this format, nine times out of ten they'll get it
right. If you don't follow this format, then tough luck.
--Lora B.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970126035...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) wrote:
@On 25 January 1997, nuc...@ix.netcom.com (Samson) wrote:
@
@=In <19970126020...@ladder01.news.aol.com> okiep...@aol.com
@=(OkiePilgrm) writes:
@=>
@=>On 25 January 1997, maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
@=>
@=>=Well Lora, I think you are on the right track.
@=>
@=>Bless your heart, Miriam.
@=>
@=>--Lora B.
@
@=R O T F L )))))))
@
@Why? Miriam is hardly one to damn with faint praise, and I was very glad
@to think that I seem to her to be following the path of my faith, and I
@was grateful to her for that word of encouragement. And I do wish her to
@be blessed. So there.
@
@I will say this: who we are on this newsgroup can't be taken for who we
@"really" are, in our life off the 'Net. (I know--IS there life off the
@'Net?) If Miriam could see me in my day-to-day life, it's possible that
@she might rethink her comment. "Girl, you'd better straighten up!" might
@be the first thing out of her mouth. I don't know.
@
@I don't know how any of you live day in and day out. It's possible that
@each of us is pretending to be a little better than we really are. Or a
@little worse. Even you, Samson, might not really be a jerk after all.
@Maybe you're just a strolling troller who likes to act the fool, and maybe
@you cry easily, and maybe you are a kind and gentle father. Who knows?
@
@G-d knows. G-d knows how we live. "His eyes behold, His eyelids test the
@sons of men..." I would be so glad if my conduct on alt.messianic
@represented me at my very worst--I would be so glad if here, on this
@forum, I just slogged along in mediocrity of character. Unfortunately,
@sometimes what I do on alt.messianic is the best that I do all day. (I
@know--"She must have some pretty rotten days.") And those are the days
@when I thank G-d for His unfailing mercies, His abundant grace.
@
@I don't have a real signature yet. Just haven't been able to settle on
@something. It's hard to get to the bottom-line, you know? But lately I'm
@thinking that I like this one:
@
@"Let us lay aside every encumbrance, and the sin which so easily entangles
@us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing
@our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith..."
@
@If I'm on that track, I'm on the right track.
@
@--Lora B.
Lora you really are starting to grow on me.
I wish you every good thing b'gashmius (materially)
u'b'ruchnius (and spiritually).
Miriam
Jeffrey Bolden
maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) writes:
>Anyway, we who have been here a long time do know that Michael does claim
>to follow the teaching of yeshu,
As do all Muslims, Jesus was one of the million prophets sent by Allah to
turn people towards the path of submission (Islam) to God's will.
>also Mohammed, if fact michael Eli
>professes to have the accurate take on yeshu's pov--so in that regard he
>is associated with xianity.
Not really. By even the most liberal definitions he is not christian.
Joshua Moss
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
in Message-ID: <19970125005...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
wrote:
>>This is what I was hinting at in my other topic, when I said that Jewish
attacks against Jesus can only backfire at a time when Christian help
would be needed. I hate to see anyone create hatred against themselves.
Annie, this is the spiritual equivalent of the guy in prison who offers
you his "protection" if you'll pull down your pants for him. If you
suggest that we should bend over (as it were) for your missionizing
because if we don't you'll turn against us if your culture resumes
murdering, torturing and raping -- perhaps there is a higher logic you are
overlooking here.
Fact is, if we are ever again in a situation where we depend upon the
goodwill of others to save us, we have no realistic hope of being saved.
We must never be in that position again.
Bob Felts
In article <Pine.ULT.3.95.970125...@ucunix.san.uc.edu>,
Joshua Moss <mos...@ucunix.san.uc.edu> wrote:
| mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
| in Message-ID: <19970125005...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
| wrote:
|
| >>This is what I was hinting at in my other topic, when I said that Jewish
| attacks against Jesus can only backfire at a time when Christian help
| would be needed. I hate to see anyone create hatred against themselves.
|
| Annie, this is the spiritual equivalent of the guy in prison who offers
| you his "protection" if you'll pull down your pants for him. If you
| suggest that we should bend over (as it were) for your missionizing
| because if we don't you'll turn against us if your culture resumes
| murdering, torturing and raping -- perhaps there is a higher logic you are
| overlooking here.
Indeed there is. You can insult us all you want. That's easy to
ignore. Insulting Jesus Christ, however, is even worse than insulting,
say, my wife. Pretend you called my wife every name in the book
and then, one day, needed my help. Jesus Christ demands that I help
you; but you sure haven't made it easy.
[...]
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970125031...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) wrote:
@=Miriam,
@=You owe every Christian on this board an apology for the blaphemous
@things
@=you have said about Jesus Christ. And until you do apologize, dont expect
@=anyone to be sympathetic to your religious concerns.
@
@=Matooshka Annie
@
@Well, I have seen people on this board jump up and demand an apology on
@behalf of another participant who was the target of very vicious, or very
@careless, words. I have seen people demand apologies for themselves, for
@real or perceived wrongs.
@
@And I suppose if you feel that Miriam has wronged you, then you are within
@your rights to demand an apology.
@
@For my part, I don't think Miriam owes me any apology at all. (I'm
@calling myself a Christian here, in case nobody is noticing.) "The
@servant is not greater than the Master," you know. He's the one being
@insulted, and if he can take it, I can take it. To tell you the truth, I
@haven't even been offended at all by what Miriam has said. I don't feel
@personally wronged. And, to be quite honest, I don't think Jesus takes it
@personally either. (Jeff, *don't* jump on my theology here. I'm speaking
@from that emotive/intuitive mindframe, so just let it pass ;-)
@
@I know. I can hear it coming: "If you had any real love for the L-rd,
@you'd..." I'd what? I'd remember, "If you love me, keep my
@commandments." I've got enough to do to worry about that, without
@hyperventilating every time someone calls Jesus an "ill-tempered crank,"
@or a "godsicle" or whatever. It's really between Miriam and Jesus;
@they'll work it out between them.
@
@--Lora B.
Well Lora, I think you are on the right track.
I'm impressed by your intelligence. Annette
is very unclear on most issues, so I am not
surprised at her missing the boat on this one too.
Bob Felts
In article <mawolfe-2501...@aragorn213.nuts.nwu.edu>,
maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
| In article <19970125005...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
| mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
|
| @ Now don't get me wrong Annette, I don't need your protection,
| @| I can take care of myself;
| @
| @Shall we remember this the next time a little tin-plated dictator
| @with delusions of grandeur decides to make the Jews the target
| @of his hatred?
| @
| @Bob,
| @
| @This is what I was hinting at in my other topic, when I said that Jewish
| @attacks against Jesus can only backfire at a time when Christian help
| @would be needed. I hate to see anyone create hatred against themselves.
| @
| @
|
| Boy oh boy Annette you do need to learn a few things
| about xianity. Ever heard of loving you enemy? It one
| of Bob's favorite mantras.
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
el...@earthlink.net
wr...@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) wrote:
>In article <mawolfe-2401...@pistachio186212.nuts.nwu.edu>,
>maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>|
>| Now don't get me wrong Annette, I don't need your protection,
Almost in so many words, this is what the rabbis of Israel have
said to me over the last 19 years--that they do not need the
Truth; that they are not in need of any protection when they
ignore the Truth.
It is for reasons such as this that I refer to Israel as a WHORE.
Michael (Daniel 12:1, Sura 2:98, Column XVII of 1QM)
Miriam Wolfe
Then you are a failedl xian, in fact your mentality is
exactly the mentality of all the xian murderers and butchers
of the Jews throughout the centuries who came to the concluison
that the Jews deserve what they get for rejecting the xian god.
Or to put it in yeshu's words:
"...love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.." Mat.5:44
Or the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) where yeshu tries to
show a "scholar of the law" that loving your neighbor means helping even
those who are considered outsiders to the faith.
Your inability to follow yeshu's demands when called upon in this real
situation shows that you talk the talk, but can't walk the walk. If you
can't stand for the truth and the right in a mildly trying circumstance
like this one, how do you ever expect to stand up to even greater tests?
Miriam Wolfe
@Actually Jeffery, Moshe does *not* owe Annette an apology, her later
@comments are demonstration of her loose argreement with Michael Eli's
@sentiments.
@
@Miriam,
@You owe every Christian on this board an apology for the blaphemous things
@you have said about Jesus Christ. And until you do apologize, dont expect
@anyone to be sympathetic to your religious concerns.
@
ROTFLOL.
I have nothing blasphemous Anntte, I have merely
published the truth.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <Pine.ULT.3.95.97012...@ucunix.san.uc.edu>,
Joshua Moss <mos...@ucunix.san.uc.edu> wrote:
@On 24 Jan 1997, MATOOSHKA wrote:
@
@> I am not excusing what the previous poster said, but I do think the HATE
@> that certain Jews here harbor for Jesus can bring the worst out of anyone.
@
@Jesus is dead. My love, faith, or devotion cannot help him. My insults or
@ill will cannot harm him. Nothing I do affects him in any way.
@
@So what Jews (or anyone else) today may feel about Jesus makes absolutely
@no difference. It cannot bring out the worst in anyone. It cannot do
@anything at all.
@
@OTOH I recognize that Jesus is the symbol of a great culture. I have no
@desire publicly to desecrate the symbol "Jesus" any more than I would want
@anyone publicly to piss on the American flag or defile a menorah.
@
@OTOH there are plenty of Christians who get angry simply because we do not
@*salute* the flag of a religion we are not members of. I don't salute
@Jesus. I don't hate him. "Jesus" is the symbol of another culture and as
@such I would respect the symbol "Jesus" the way I would honor the flag of
@France. I would neither desecrate nor salute it. I would say nothing
@either way. Unless France declares war on the U.S., or unless Christians
@attempt to win Jews away from Judaism in the name of Jesus. Then I might
@get forced off of my neutrality.
@
@Annie, that is exactly what this newsgroup IS. A place for missionaries to
@do their thing and get the reaction they get. And above all, to keep the
@discussion off of the mainstream Jewish newsgroups.) It's that gritty
@realism that makes alt.messianic so compelling to those of us who have
@nothing better to do with our time. Don't whine about it. Y'all made the
@first move. Y'all want us to convert. We have no corresponding interest in
@taking over your culture. Wave your flag on your soil, we will show it due
@respect. Try to plant it on our soil, and we will burn it. Welcome to the
@real world.
@
@Joshua
Well said, friend.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970126003...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@Indeed there is. You can insult us all you want. That's easy to
@ignore. Insulting Jesus Christ, however, is even worse than insulting,
@say, my wife. Pretend you called my wife every name in the book
@and then, one day, needed my help. Jesus Christ demands that I help<<
@
@(above from Bob Felts)
@
@Bob, That was exactly my point. Thanks!
OkiePilgrm
On 25 January 1997, maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
=Well Lora, I think you are on the right track.
Bless your heart, Miriam.
--Lora B.
el...@earthlink.net
maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
anyone.
>@
>
>Hey Annette, you adopted another grand Catholic/xian
>tradition, blame the victim. Many in Church history have
>felt the Jews got what they deserved, nodded and winked
>at xian persecution of the Jews throughout the centuries.
>I don't hate your deity,
OF COURSE YOU DO.
> in fact I think the character in the NT
>is not a real person but an amalgam of several people; what
>I do hate is are false claims of fulfilled prophecies and all other
>kinds of lies.
SO DO I.
> Lies, like xianity is the religion of love, are abundant
>and easily stood on their heads, by actions and remarks such as
>yours here. A real xian, would have condemned Michael Eli in
>no uncertain terms.
Why, THANK YOU.
>
>You recently made the claim of being willing to lay your lie down
>for someone else, and I said that those are words spoken now
>and when put to the test you very likely would do otherwise.
>When we mentioned Church endorsed perseuction of the Jews,
>you mentioned that there were a few xians who hid Jews and
>were jailed for their actions. More lofty words on your part.
>I reminded you that too few xians actually lived up to the
>xian commandment to lay one's life down for someone else,
>hence 6 million innocent Jews went to their matyred deaths.
>
>Your response to Michael Eli, shows what you are made of--
>hollow sounds & empty words. Michael is attmeping an
>assination here,
Look. I NEVER attempt to assassinate anyone until it has been
demonstrated to me that they are ALREADY dead.And I am ALWAYS
successful--even if those assassinated don't believe it.
> and rather than taking the bullet yourself
>or trying to "stop" him, you stand by and say Michael you're
>right Miriam is a Luv A Bitch, she deserves it.
'SHE' doesn't even EXIST.
GET IT?
This is an interaction at the level of THOUGHT *ALONE*.
el...@earthlink.net
el...@earthlink.net wrote:
>maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
>
>> and rather than taking the bullet yourself
>>or trying to "stop" him, you stand by and say Michael you're
>>right Miriam is a Luv A Bitch, she deserves it.
You know, Miriam, I just can't please you.
I DIDN'T say Hate a Bitch...
I said LUV a Bitch.
I give up...
el...@earthlink.net
Michael Shoshani
: Miriam,
: You owe every Christian on this board an apology for the blaphemous things
: you have said about Jesus Christ. And until you do apologize, dont expect
: anyone to be sympathetic to your religious concerns.
Mamushka,
In case you have not noticed, the very purpose of alt.messianic is
spirited debate between Jews who reject Jesus and those who wish to
convince them that they are wrong. Temperaments and emotions being what
they are, expect to see "non-believing" Jews blaspheming your Jesus,
just as we expect to see Jesus-believers blaspheming our Rabbis, teachers,
and heritage.
We do not live in a Catholic-controlled environment where "blasphemy of
Jesus" condemns one to being an object of aggression, torture, and death.
I suspect you are going to find that, of the active participants of
alt.messianic, you are the only Christian who holds the sentiment of
"Hey, you dissed my god--f*ck ya!".
We have a tenacious understanding here, that attacks on each other's
religions sometimes happen. While we often respond in the heat of passion
with various depreciatory remarks, we do not take them hatefully or
personally.
You will very often find two people shredding each other to bits in one
thread and fighting side-by-side in another. alt.messianic is unlike any
other newsgroup on Usenet. If you cannot stand the fact that there are
Christians here willing to deal with the fact that there are Jews who do
not take Jesus as seriously as they do, you are in the wrong newsgroup.
--
shos...@wwa.com // In the beginning, God made idiots;
Michael Shoshani // This was for practice
Chicago IL, USA // Then he made school boards.
http://miso.wwa.com/~shoshani/ // --Mark Twain
mos...@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
On 26 Jan 1997, MATOOSHKA wrote:
> Judging from your posts on this ng, you are an enemy of Jesus Christ and
> so, an enemy of God who sent Him. I have no responsibnility to defend you
> against insults if you are being insulted for blaspheming Christ. If you
> were being insulted for any other reason I would defend you, if you were
> in the right.
This is really scary. History-in-miniature. Being played out right here.
Step 1: The Church loves us so much it has to assimilate us.
Step 2: We refuse to be absorbed (and are even a little nasty about it).
Step 3: The Church declares us enemies of God, unworthy of its protection.
Step 4: Some Christians get the hint and actually attack us, while the
Church does nothing.
Step 5: The Church declares that it did nothing to attack us. Those
people (who happened to be members of the Church) were not acting in the
name of the church.
Step 6: In fact, the Church loves us. It loves us so much it has to
assimilate us.
Samson
In <19970126135...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mato...@aol.com
(MATOOSHKA) writes:
>
>Then you are not a real xian.<<
>
>
>
blaspheming
>HIM. We are only commanded to forgive those who offend US personally.
>
>I refuse to cater to your pride as some others are doing. My Savior
means
>far more to me than that.
>
>
>
>
>Matooshka Annie
>IC XC
>NI KA
>
WO---oh
Samson
Samson
In <19970126134...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mato...@aol.com
(MATOOSHKA) writes:
>
>@If I'm on that track, I'm on the right track.
>@
>@--Lora B.
>
>
>Lora you really are starting to grow on me.
>I wish you every good thing b'gashmius (materially)
>u'b'ruchnius (and spiritually).
>
>Miriam<<<
>
>
>
>"Woe to you when all men speak well of you."
matooshka said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I say Miriam is Woman! I hope ;+}
Fast Eddy
Samson
>
>
enemies.
>
>Judging from your posts on this ng, you are an enemy of Jesus Christ
and
>so, an enemy of God who sent Him. I have no responsibnility to defend
you
>against insults if you are being insulted for blaspheming Christ. If
you
>were being insulted for any other reason I would defend you, if you
were
>in the right.
>
>
>
>
>IC XC
>NI KA
Boy (girl) are you Hip to the Jive! Me getting suspicious now! When
did you appear on messy? Hmmm------I Love doin detective work.....
Samson & Fast Eddy
OkiePilgrm
>On 26 Jan 1997, MATOOSHKA wrote:
>> Judging from your posts on this ng, you are an enemy of Jesus Christ
and
>> so, an enemy of God who sent Him. I have no responsibnility to defend
you
>> against insults if you are being insulted for blaspheming Christ. If
you
>> were being insulted for any other reason I would defend you, if you
were
>> in the right.
>This is really scary. History-in-miniature. Being played out right here.
>Step 1: The Church loves us so much it has to assimilate us.
>Step 2: We refuse to be absorbed (and are even a little nasty about it).
>Step 3: The Church declares us enemies of God, unworthy of its
protection.
>Step 4: Some Christians get the hint and actually attack us, while the
>Church does nothing.
>Step 5: The Church declares that it did nothing to attack us. Those
>people (who happened to be members of the Church) were not acting in the
>name of the church.
>Step 6: In fact, the Church loves us. It loves us so much it has to
>assimilate us.
Josh, I'm afraid you're correct.
Annette, please--
Please.
--Lora B.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970126134...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@xians are COMPELLED by the words of yeshu hanotzeri
@to love and do good to those who hate you, for xians are no
@better than theives if they only love those and do good to those
@who love and do good to them! If you folks can get beyond
@our resistence to xianity to do the right thing, the moral
@thing--then you are all failures.<<
@
@Miriam,
@
@And so that is why you have purposely tried to "push" Christians here with
@your ahtred and venom against Jesus Christ, to get some of possibly lash
@back so you could taunt them as not "real" Christians?
You are not up to fulfilling the commandments of the xian saviour.
@
@Do you think people dont see what you're up to?
You uttered much rhetoric Annette, and have made
many claims, yet you are unable to live up to it, and
I have been pointing that out. Others see you as I do.
@
@And by the way, who is "yeshu"? <g>
The xian god.
Miriam Wolfe
@Sure he is. He's as dead as Elvis.<<
@
@
@Miriam,
@
@
@Jesus Christ the Son of God is alive. Christos Voskresse! :-)
Nah, he's dead as a door nail.
@
@
@Can't say the same about your moshiach tho, he's buried in Queens. Sorry.
I no of no moshiach buried in Old Montefiore Cemetary
on Springfield Blvd. in Queens. What are you referring to?
Miriam Wolfe
@Sure he is. He's as dead as Elvis.<<
@
@
@Miriam,
@
@
@Jesus Christ the Son of God is alive. Christos Voskresse! :-)
Nah, he's dead as a door nail.
@
@
@Can't say the same about your moshiach tho, he's buried in Queens. Sorry.
I know of no moshiach buried in Old Montefiore Cemetary
Samson
In <01bc0b97$a8cce9e0$bea7...@jbk.ios.com> "Judy and Jamie Kraft"
<j2k...@msn.com> writes:
>
>My dear Mrs. Wolfe
>
>We have a saying in Texas. "You can call a possum an armadillo, but
that
>don't give it a hard shell."
>
>We continue to pray for peace, wisdom and enlightenment for you. We
hope
>that one of these days, you shall be changed, and see the beauty and
truth
>in what you have hitherto spurned.
>
>Shalom, Jamie
>
>Miriam Wolfe <maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> wrote in article
><mawolfe-2201...@aragorn211.nuts.nwu.edu>...
>>
>> If my preference to use "yeshu" or "yeshu hanotzeri" when
>> referring to the xian deity is a problem for you............well
>> then I wish you success in adjusting to the continued use
>> by Jews on this forum of:
>>
>> yeshu
>> yeshu hanotzeri
>> THAT maN
>> "j"
>> "your idol"
>> the Nazerene
>>
>>
>> Cheers--
>> Mrs. Wolfe
>>
I love it, I said same prayer! But i was bymyself! Now we have three!
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I
in the midst of them.
Matthew 18:20
Samson
Miriam Wolfe
In article
<Pine.PMDF.3.91.97012609...@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU>,
mos...@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU wrote:
@On 26 Jan 1997, MATOOSHKA wrote:
@
@> Judging from your posts on this ng, you are an enemy of Jesus Christ and
@> so, an enemy of God who sent Him. I have no responsibnility to defend you
@> against insults if you are being insulted for blaspheming Christ. If you
@> were being insulted for any other reason I would defend you, if you were
@> in the right.
@This is really scary. History-in-miniature. Being played out right here.
@Step 1: The Church loves us so much it has to assimilate us.
@Step 2: We refuse to be absorbed (and are even a little nasty about it).
@Step 3: The Church declares us enemies of God, unworthy of its protection.
@Step 4: Some Christians get the hint and actually attack us, while the
@Church does nothing.
@Step 5: The Church declares that it did nothing to attack us. Those
@people (who happened to be members of the Church) were not acting in the
@name of the church.
@Step 6: In fact, the Church loves us. It loves us so much it has to
@assimilate us.
Exactly Josh! I have been pointing this out in a number
of replies to Annette. As far as I can tell she revels in sharing
the mindset of the xian anti-semite.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970126143...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@> Jesus is dead.
@>No, He isn't. :-)
@
@Sure he is.<<
@
@If He is dead, where is His grave?
Long gone, remember his body was stolen.
Annette is Moses dead? Where's his grave?
@
@I can show you Schneerson's grave, though.
I can show you the Rebbe's grave too.
Do you think he was the Messiah? I don't.
OkiePilgrm
On 25 January 1997, nuc...@ix.netcom.com (Samson) wrote:
=In <19970126020...@ladder01.news.aol.com> okiep...@aol.com
=(OkiePilgrm) writes:
=>
=>On 25 January 1997, maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
=>
=>=Well Lora, I think you are on the right track.
=>
=>Bless your heart, Miriam.
=>
=>--Lora B.
=R O T F L )))))))
Why? Miriam is hardly one to damn with faint praise, and I was very glad
to think that I seem to her to be following the path of my faith, and I
was grateful to her for that word of encouragement. And I do wish her to
be blessed. So there.
I will say this: who we are on this newsgroup can't be taken for who we
"really" are, in our life off the 'Net. (I know--IS there life off the
'Net?) If Miriam could see me in my day-to-day life, it's possible that
she might rethink her comment. "Girl, you'd better straighten up!" might
be the first thing out of her mouth. I don't know.
I don't know how any of you live day in and day out. It's possible that
each of us is pretending to be a little better than we really are. Or a
little worse. Even you, Samson, might not really be a jerk after all.
Maybe you're just a strolling troller who likes to act the fool, and maybe
you cry easily, and maybe you are a kind and gentle father. Who knows?
G-d knows. G-d knows how we live. "His eyes behold, His eyelids test the
sons of men..." I would be so glad if my conduct on alt.messianic
represented me at my very worst--I would be so glad if here, on this
forum, I just slogged along in mediocrity of character. Unfortunately,
sometimes what I do on alt.messianic is the best that I do all day. (I
know--"She must have some pretty rotten days.") And those are the days
when I thank G-d for His unfailing mercies, His abundant grace.
I don't have a real signature yet. Just haven't been able to settle on
something. It's hard to get to the bottom-line, you know? But lately I'm
thinking that I like this one:
"Let us lay aside every encumbrance, and the sin which so easily entangles
us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing
our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith..."
If I'm on that track, I'm on the right track.
--Lora B.
Miriam Wolfe
In article <19970126145...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA) wrote:
@Josh, I'm afraid you're correct.
@
@Annette, please--
@
@Please.
@
@--Lora B.<<<
@
@
@"Please please" what, Lora?
@
@I refuse to defend anyone who blasphemes Jesus IF they are being
@criticized FOR blaspheming Him. What true Christian would do otherwise?
Bob and Lora
Hillel Eli Markowitz
(el...@earthlink.net) writes:
>
> That's the point. If she were HONEST it would be one thing. But
> she plays this snide game of using specific words to express her
> rage and then hides behind the smokescreen as if NO ONE can see
> what she is doing.
>
>> What is Jesus to you?
>
> According to the Koran he is the messiah.
>
>> I
>>acknowledge Him as my Savior and L-rd, and I am saddened that Miriam
>>esteems him not at all.
>
> But wouldn't it be refreshing if she simply EXPRESSED that HATRED?
As far as I am concerned, the term y'shu does not express hatred. It
expresses contempt for the image that has been built around a person, who
may or may not have existed, by the snake oil salesman Paul. Perhaps it
may also be a little pity for whoever the person may have been whose
original identity has been lost behind the mask of "jesus". Actually,
since the name "jesus" seems to be a Hellenization of the term <yud> <shin>
<vav> used in the censored parts of the talmud (and as used in the Old
English which called him "jesu") the term y'shu seems to be the most
accurate representation of the original name, no matter how the name was
derived.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore" | Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz |
| The Jews are the fish, Torah is our water | Zovchai Adam, agalim yishakun |
|____________________________________________|_______________________________|
OkiePilgrm
Man, I hate this thread.
Why don't we *all* pray for each other. Not, "G-d, show them how foolish
and wrong they are." No, no. How about, "G-d, bless this person [Miriam,
Annette, Bob, Lora, Eli, Samson, you fill in the blank] with true and
lasting peace." Pray that until it comes from the HEART.
David cried out to HaShem because of His enemies, "Let them curse, but do
Thou bless." Let us simply ask G-d to bless.
--Lora B.
Moshe Shulman
>From: mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
>> Jesus is dead.
>>No, He isn't. :-)
>Sure he is.<<
>If He is dead, where is His grave?
Please tell me where the tomb was that he was supposedly buried so
that I can have forensic experts verify that he was 1. there, 2. is
notlonger there.
>I can show you Schneerson's grave, though.
I know where there are a lot of cemeteries. So? You plan on going to
pray by the graves of Jewish saints with me?
--
+=========================+=========================+
| /\ | |
| ____/_ \____ | |
| \ ___\ \ / | |
| \/ / \/ / | Moshe Shulman |
| / /\__/_/\ | mshu...@ix.netcom.com |
| /__\ \_____\ | |
| \ / | |
| \/ | |
+=========================+=========================+
Samson
In <19970126020...@ladder01.news.aol.com> okiep...@aol.com
(OkiePilgrm) writes:
>
>On 25 January 1997, maw...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Miriam Wolfe) wrote:
>
>=Well Lora, I think you are on the right track.
>
>
>--Lora B.
R O T F L )))))))
Bob Felts
In article <5cer4n$n...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
mshu...@ix.netcom.com(Moshe Shulman) wrote:
| >From: mato...@aol.com (MATOOSHKA)
|
| > Jesus is dead.
| >No, He isn't. :-)
|
| Sure he is.
|
You've made your decision, I've made mine. I'm content to leave
the final judgement up to God.
__|_______ Through His love and through a ram,
| He saved the son of Abraham...
| Bob Felts But God demonstrates His own love for us,
| wr...@mindspring.com in that while we were still sinners,
| http://www.mindspring.com/~wrf3 Christ died for us.
Bob Felts
In article <19970126184...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
okiep...@aol.com (OkiePilgrm) wrote:
| On 26 January 1997, somebody wrote:
|
| >My dear Mrs. Wolfe
|
| >We have a saying in Texas. "You can call a possum an armadillo, but that
| >don't give it a hard shell."
|
| <snip>
|
| >Shalom, Jamie
|
| Just out of curiousity, who is this Jamie person, and how did he/she
| manage to post without leaving a username or email address?
Huh? She did. It's ""Judy and Jamie Kraft" at <j2k...@msn.com>.
Jamie is an occassional visitor to this group.