I read an interesting question: If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? Where would he choose to worship?
Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), Sikh temple etc?
On Mar 26, 1:20 pm, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I read an interesting question: > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > Where would he choose to worship?
> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > Sikh temple etc?
Probably closest to the liturgical worship in the 2nd Temple would be Eastern Orthodox, although He would not be worshipping there, He would be the One worshipped as Messiah!
On 26 Mar 2008 10:20:01 -0700, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>I read an interesting question: >If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose?
He would choose the religion with the most hardness of heart and then seek to melt it back into God's hands! He might even choose a Christian church. I might prefer that he choose the RCC, if for no other reason than that it purports to be the fullest of Christ's churches -- we'll see how well it's doing! How's that?
>Where would he choose to worship?
The Jesus we meet in the gospels wasn't afraid to worship outside the bounds of traditional religion. Where did he teach his disciples to pray? In temples and churches? No. He said "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."
Did Jesus run to church when an issue came up? No, he went out into the wild lands to talk to God.
In other words, I don't think Jesus would point to *any* religion and say: "That's the right one!"
>Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, >or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, >Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, >Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), >Sikh temple etc?
I think he would feel comfortable, and happiest, among any people of any religion that focus their lives on God, love and serve their neighbours, and live the great commandments. I am sure he would still feel most at home with the modern day "tax collectors, prostitutes, lepers, and assorted chaff of society" that he befriended and lifted up back in the day. If he came here today, I'm sure he'd head straight for the nearest homeless shelter or drug dealer "neighbour"hood.
I know you'll get answers "this or that Christian church", because only the Christian church has his truth; but really, Jesus didn't come to invent a new religion, or even really do away with or reform Judaism -- he came to remind us what should be central in our lives -- God -- and then, how to live those lives with love for God at the center.
> I read an interesting question: > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > Where would he choose to worship? > Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > Sikh temple etc?
Having listened to Walter Martin, Christian experts in the cults, I believe Jesus would have to conform with solid Christian theology. He would address the problems in the true churches that allow God's expression in their midst. Some churches are so "dead" that God cannot speak prophetically from the pulpit, and do not allow Christians to exercise their gifts in the church, eg discernment, encouragement, rebuke, giving.
Jesus left this world specifically to be replaced by God's Spirit, so that our focus will not be on one man, but rather, on God's presence. If everything we do as Christians is not designed to get God's presence in our gatherings, our religion is futile and vain. randy
> "Emma" >> I read an interesting question: >> If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? >> Where would he choose to worship?
>> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, >> or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, >> Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, >> Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), >> Sikh temple etc?
> Having listened to Walter Martin, Christian experts in the cults, I > believe Jesus would have to conform with solid Christian theology.
Tehe! 326. anazao an-ad-zah'-o to recover life (literally or figuratively):--(be a-)live again, revive.
> He would address the problems in the true churches that allow God's > expression in their midst. Some churches are so "dead" that God cannot > speak prophetically from the pulpit, and do not allow Christians to > exercise their gifts in the church, eg discernment, encouragement, rebuke, > giving.
> Jesus left this world specifically to be replaced by God's Spirit, so that > our focus will not be on one man, but rather, on God's presence. If > everything we do as Christians is not designed to get God's presence in > our gatherings, our religion is futile and vain. > randy
You keep dancing around the issue, Randy, and By God it will be. I didnt write that lament in alignment with Gods own purpose to have you and others rant about "churches" being a bride, like Jesus is going to marry a multitude of people or something.
Emma wrote: > I read an interesting question: > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > Where would he choose to worship?
> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > Sikh temple etc?
If JC was the messiah the answer would be Jewish ... and it has nothing to do with choosing a religion but the necessity of being the messiah. I know this is not your "real" question and irrelevant to what you are trying to achieve. But I though I might drop this in.
Because the NT says that JC will not come back in the way where he will choose a religion.
-- Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions. When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
On Mar 26, 10:20 am, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I read an interesting question: > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > Where would he choose to worship?
> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > Sikh temple etc?
On Mar 26, 10:20 am, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I read an interesting question: > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > Where would he choose to worship?
> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!),
Emma needs a B&B with the Museum of Tolerance.
Tell us, Emma. Why is hating Muslims ethical, in your eyes?
spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote: > Emma wrote: > > I read an interesting question: > > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > > Where would he choose to worship?
> > Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > > Sikh temple etc?
> If JC was the messiah the answer would be Jewish ...
Why would it be so different this time, Mordecai? Jesus told the world what he thought of Judaism the first time around.
Matthew 23 (King James Version) 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Terry Cross wrote: > On Mar 26, 3:26 pm, Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont > spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote: > > Emma wrote: > > > I read an interesting question: > > > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > > > Where would he choose to worship?
> > > Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > > > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > > > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > > > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > > > Sikh temple etc?
> > If JC was the messiah the answer would be Jewish ...
> Why would it be so different this time, Mordecai? Jesus told the > world what he thought of Judaism the first time around.
> Matthew 23 (King James Version) > 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, > 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: > 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; > but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. > 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them > on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of > their fingers. > 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad > their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, > 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the > synagogues, > 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, > Rabbi. > 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; > and all ye are brethren. > 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, > which is in heaven. > 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. > 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. > 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that > shall humble himself shall be exalted. > 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut > up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, > neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. > 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour > widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye > shall receive the greater damnation. > 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass > sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him > twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. > 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by > the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of > the temple, he is a debtor! > 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the > temple that sanctifieth the gold? > 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but > whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. > 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar > that sanctifieth the gift? > 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by > all things thereon. > 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him > that dwelleth therein. > 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, > and by him that sitteth thereon. > 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe > of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters > of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, > and not to leave the other undone. > 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. > 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean > the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of > extortion and excess. > 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup > and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. > 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like > unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are > within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. > 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye > are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. > 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build > the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the > righteous, > 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not > have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. > 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the > children of them which killed the prophets. > 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. > 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the > damnation of hell? > 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and > scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them > shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to > city: > 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the > earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias > son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. > 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this > generation. > 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and > stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered > thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her > wings, and ye would not! > 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. > 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall > say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
> I doubt he has changed his mind.
> TCross
Well it seems that if he did come - like this passage, then we would say "blessed is he who comes in the name of the l_rd." IOW this very passage says it is going to be different this time.
And the the proof? Why jerusalem is no longer desolate - so the times, they are a changing. Thank you for bringing this to our attention -and the postitive change in the relationship betwen jews and JC - and that he himself says he will return to us.
-- Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions. When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote: > Terry Cross wrote: > > On Mar 26, 3:26 pm, Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont > > spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote: > > > Emma wrote: > > > > I read an interesting question: > > > > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > > > > Where would he choose to worship?
> > > > Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > > > > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > > > > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > > > > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > > > > Sikh temple etc?
> > > If JC was the messiah the answer would be Jewish ...
> > Why would it be so different this time, Mordecai? Jesus told the > > world what he thought of Judaism the first time around.
> > Matthew 23 (King James Version) > > 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, > > 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: > > 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; > > but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. > > 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them > > on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of > > their fingers. > > 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad > > their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, > > 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the > > synagogues, > > 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, > > Rabbi. > > 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; > > and all ye are brethren. > > 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, > > which is in heaven. > > 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. > > 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. > > 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that > > shall humble himself shall be exalted. > > 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut > > up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, > > neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. > > 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour > > widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye > > shall receive the greater damnation. > > 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass > > sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him > > twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. > > 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by > > the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of > > the temple, he is a debtor! > > 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the > > temple that sanctifieth the gold? > > 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but > > whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. > > 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar > > that sanctifieth the gift? > > 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by > > all things thereon. > > 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him > > that dwelleth therein. > > 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, > > and by him that sitteth thereon. > > 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe > > of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters > > of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, > > and not to leave the other undone. > > 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. > > 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean > > the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of > > extortion and excess. > > 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup > > and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. > > 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like > > unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are > > within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. > > 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye > > are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. > > 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build > > the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the > > righteous, > > 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not > > have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. > > 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the > > children of them which killed the prophets. > > 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. > > 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the > > damnation of hell? > > 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and > > scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them > > shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to > > city: > > 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the > > earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias > > son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. > > 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this > > generation. > > 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and > > stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered > > thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her > > wings, and ye would not! > > 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. > > 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall > > say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
> > I doubt he has changed his mind.
> > TCross
> Well it seems that if he did come - like this passage, then we would say > "blessed is he who comes in the name of the l_rd." > IOW this very passage says it is going to be different this time.
> And the the proof? Why jerusalem is no longer desolate - so the times, they > are a changing.
After the crimes Israel has committed against the people of Palestine through the terrorist Stern gang and Urgun, Israel may be just as desolate as when Jesus spoke. And incidentally, Jesus clearly indicated he was not interested in a brick of gold or a knapsack of uncut diamonds.
> Thank you for bringing this to our attention -and the postitive change in > the relationship betwen jews and JC - and that he himself says he will > return to us.
I do not speak for Jesus. I reckon he will pick his own friends when he arrives. But I do not think his friendship can be taken for granted.
>> Having listened to Walter Martin, Christian experts in the cults, I >> believe Jesus would have to conform with solid Christian theology. > Tehe! > 326. anazao an-ad-zah'-o to recover life (literally or figuratively):--(be > a-)live again, revive.
I don't understand this. What are you trying to say?
>> He would address the problems in the true churches that allow God's >> expression in their midst. Some churches are so "dead" that God cannot >> speak prophetically from the pulpit, and do not allow Christians to >> exercise their gifts in the church, eg discernment, encouragement, >> rebuke, giving. >> Jesus left this world specifically to be replaced by God's Spirit, so >> that our focus will not be on one man, but rather, on God's presence. If >> everything we do as Christians is not designed to get God's presence in >> our gatherings, our religion is futile and vain. > You keep dancing around the issue, Randy, and By God it will be. > I didnt write that lament in alignment with Gods own purpose to have you > and others rant about "churches" being a bride, like Jesus is going to > marry a multitude of people or something.
What "lament" are you talking about? Frankly, I don't know what you believe and what religion you belong to. I was only addressing a hypothetical question Emma raised. I wasn't "dancing around" anything. randy
> "Azure Kite" > randy >>> Having listened to Walter Martin, Christian experts in the cults, I >>> believe Jesus would have to conform with solid Christian theology.
>> Tehe! >> 326. anazao an-ad-zah'-o to recover life (literally or >> figuratively):--(be a-)live again, revive.
> I don't understand this. What are you trying to say?
>>> He would address the problems in the true churches that allow God's >>> expression in their midst. Some churches are so "dead" that God cannot >>> speak prophetically from the pulpit, and do not allow Christians to >>> exercise their gifts in the church, eg discernment, encouragement, >>> rebuke, giving.
>>> Jesus left this world specifically to be replaced by God's Spirit, so >>> that our focus will not be on one man, but rather, on God's presence. If >>> everything we do as Christians is not designed to get God's presence in >>> our gatherings, our religion is futile and vain.
>> You keep dancing around the issue, Randy, and By God it will be. >> I didnt write that lament in alignment with Gods own purpose to have you >> and others rant about "churches" being a bride, like Jesus is going to >> marry a multitude of people or something.
> What "lament" are you talking about? Frankly, I don't know what you > believe and what religion you belong to. I was only addressing a > hypothetical question Emma raised. I wasn't "dancing around" anything. > randy
If you dont know what I believe after 8 years of my postings on these groups, I am not really interested in adding anything else here.Of course, alot of it was typical tit for tat trolling behaviour, but I gave that up a while back. Bye now!
In article <3l4lu35cdkn12kkm5uivh0e8dsr9kir...@4ax.com>, Padraic Brown says...
>On 26 Mar 2008 10:20:01 -0700, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>I read an interesting question: >>If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose?
>He would choose the religion with the most hardness of heart and then >seek to melt it back into God's hands! He might even choose a >Christian church. I might prefer that he choose the RCC, if for no >other reason than that it purports to be the fullest of Christ's >churches -- we'll see how well it's doing! How's that?
I think that's a good answer. He was interested in reform, so yes, I think he would be trying to change things.
>>Where would he choose to worship?
>The Jesus we meet in the gospels wasn't afraid to worship outside the >bounds of traditional religion. Where did he teach his disciples to >pray? In temples and churches? No. He said "But when you pray, go into >your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."
>Did Jesus run to church when an issue came up? No, he went out into >the wild lands to talk to God.
>In other words, I don't think Jesus would point to *any* religion and >say: "That's the right one!"
He did worship in the Temple though, Padraic. Although I think you're right in that he did show us that God is very personal, and so he prayed everywhere.
>>Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, >>or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, >>Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, >>Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), >>Sikh temple etc?
>I think he would feel comfortable, and happiest, among any people of >any religion that focus their lives on God, love and serve their >neighbours, and live the great commandments. I am sure he would still >feel most at home with the modern day "tax collectors, prostitutes, >lepers, and assorted chaff of society" that he befriended and lifted >up back in the day. If he came here today, I'm sure he'd head straight >for the nearest homeless shelter or drug dealer "neighbour"hood.
Yes, I agree. I think he would join with people who are involved in helping the less fortunate.
>I know you'll get answers "this or that Christian church", because >only the Christian church has his truth; but really, Jesus didn't come >to invent a new religion, or even really do away with or reform >Judaism -- he came to remind us what should be central in our lives -- >God -- and then, how to live those lives with love for God at the >center.
True: "Love God and love your neighbour as yourself"
In article <4cdd8783-43ac-4d0e-a849-3bfa02481...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Terry Cross says...
>On Mar 26, 10:20 am, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote: >> I read an interesting question: >> If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? >> Where would he choose to worship?
>> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, >> or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, >> Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, >> Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!),
>Emma needs a B&B with the Museum of Tolerance.
>Tell us, Emma. Why is hating Muslims ethical, in your eyes?
>"Emma" >> I read an interesting question: >> If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? >> Where would he choose to worship?
>> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, >> or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, >> Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, >> Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), >> Sikh temple etc?
>Having listened to Walter Martin, Christian experts in the cults, I believe >Jesus would have to conform with solid Christian theology. He would address >the problems in the true churches that allow God's expression in their >midst. Some churches are so "dead" that God cannot speak prophetically from >the pulpit, and do not allow Christians to exercise their gifts in the >church, eg discernment, encouragement, rebuke, giving.
>Jesus left this world specifically to be replaced by God's Spirit, so that >our focus will not be on one man, but rather, on God's presence. If >everything we do as Christians is not designed to get God's presence in our >gatherings, our religion is futile and vain.
Don't you think he would be concerned about reforming the dead churches though, Randy? I know my own denomination is far too happy to allow its dead churches to remain dead. I think Jesus would be trying to breathe life into them again.
In article <47EACD83.880AE...@internode.on.net>, please dont spam says...
>If JC was the messiah the answer would be Jewish ... and it has nothing to >do with choosing a religion but the necessity of being the messiah. >I know this is not your "real" question and irrelevant to what you are >trying to achieve. >But I though I might drop this in.
I understand what you're saying.
>Because the NT says that JC will not come back in the way where he will >choose a religion.
Well when he was here the first time, I would describe him as having been a conservative minded Reform Jew. The question is, what sort of faith did he envisage for his Great Commission? Which one comes closest?
>On Mar 26, 1:20=A0pm, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote: >> I read an interesting question: >> If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? >> Where would he choose to worship?
>> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, >> or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, >> Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, >> Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), >> Sikh temple etc?
Emma wrote: > In article <47EACD83.880AE...@internode.on.net>, please dont spam says...
> >If JC was the messiah the answer would be Jewish ... and it has nothing to > >do with choosing a religion but the necessity of being the messiah. > >I know this is not your "real" question and irrelevant to what you are > >trying to achieve. > >But I though I might drop this in.
> I understand what you're saying.
> >Because the NT says that JC will not come back in the way where he will > >choose a religion.
> Well when he was here the first time, I would describe him as > having been a conservative minded Reform Jew. > The question is, what sort of faith did he envisage > for his Great Commission? Which one comes closest?
The great commission? Never believed it - I have no idea who made this doctrine but it is ridiculous. It was a command given to .. a) the entire christian church? b) All the believers at the time? c) The people he actually spoke to?
I choose c) the people he actually spoke to - who were ... let me see, church builders.
For all my disagreements, probably the Jehovah's witnesses would be the closest to the picture that JC desired. And no, I do not agree with their doctrines.
-- Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions. When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
> In article <47EACD83.880AE...@internode.on.net>, please dont spam says...
> >If JC was the messiah the answer would be Jewish ... and it has nothing to > >do with choosing a religion but the necessity of being the messiah. > >I know this is not your "real" question and irrelevant to what you are > >trying to achieve. > >But I though I might drop this in.
> I understand what you're saying.
> >Because the NT says that JC will not come back in the way where he will > >choose a religion.
> Well when he was here the first time, I would describe him as > having been a conservative minded Reform Jew.
>>> You keep dancing around the issue, Randy, and By God it will be. >>> I didnt write that lament in alignment with Gods own purpose to have you >>> and others rant about "churches" being a bride, like Jesus is going to >>> marry a multitude of people or something. >> What "lament" are you talking about? Frankly, I don't know what you >> believe and what religion you belong to. I was only addressing a >> hypothetical question Emma raised. I wasn't "dancing around" anything. > If you dont know what I believe after 8 years of my postings on these > groups, I am not really interested in adding anything else here.Of course, > alot of it was typical tit for tat trolling behaviour, but I gave that up > a while back. > Bye now!
I'm glad you got over the "trolling" stuff. Sounds like you would be more interesting to discuss things with now. Too bad. randy
In article <47EBA2A8.5C9FF...@internode.on.net>, please dont spam says...
>For all my disagreements, probably the Jehovah's witnesses would be the closest >to the picture that JC desired.
Blimey! :-) What? Long winded? Pushy? Love the sound of their own voice? All that strange stuff about blood transfusions and the even stranger "God's elect"? Actually, I've had a nice conversation with a Jehovahs Witness before now, and I don't agree with being nasty to them, or even rude, but I'm afraid I can't agree with you Mordecai. It's dodgy stuff indeed. A pregnant woman here died recently rather than have a blood transfusion. Terribly sad :-(
> On Mar 26, 3:26 pm, Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont
> spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote: > > Emma wrote: > > > I read an interesting question: > > > If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > > > Where would he choose to worship?
> > > Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > > > or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > > > Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > > > Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > > > Sikh temple etc?
> > If JC was the messiah the answer would be Jewish ...
> Why would it be so different this time, Mordecai? Jesus told the > world what he thought of Judaism the first time around.
> Matthew 23 (King James Version) > 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, > 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: > 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; > but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. > 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them > on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of > their fingers. > 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad > their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, > 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the > synagogues, > 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, > Rabbi. > 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; > and all ye are brethren. > 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, > which is in heaven. > 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. > 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. > 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that > shall humble himself shall be exalted. > 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut > up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, > neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. > 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour > widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye > shall receive the greater damnation. > 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass > sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him > twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. > 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by > the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of > the temple, he is a debtor! > 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the > temple that sanctifieth the gold? > 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but > whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. > 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar > that sanctifieth the gift? > 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by > all things thereon. > 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him > that dwelleth therein. > 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, > and by him that sitteth thereon. > 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe > of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters > of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, > and not to leave the other undone. > 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. > 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean > the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of > extortion and excess. > 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup > and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. > 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like > unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are > within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. > 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye > are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. > 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build > the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the > righteous, > 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not > have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. > 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the > children of them which killed the prophets. > 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. > 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the > damnation of hell? > 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and > scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them > shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to > city: > 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the > earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias > son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. > 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this > generation. > 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and > stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered > thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her > wings, and ye would not! > 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. > 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall > say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
> I doubt he has changed his mind.
> TCross- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
He never said He hated Judaism, He hated those that said they practiced it and in reality did not. What He hated were hypocrites,,,
> In article <4c10fe2b-a3fb-41c7-a33d-36236770b...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > Digimor...@starpower.net says...
> >On Mar 26, 1:20=A0pm, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote: > >> I read an interesting question: > >> If Jesus came back today, which religion would he choose? > >> Where would he choose to worship?
> >> Would he feel most comfortable in a Catholic church, > >> or an American Fundamentalist church, or Eastern Orthodox, > >> Anglican, Methodist,Reform Jewish synagoue, Orthodox Jewish, > >> Jehovahs Witness, Mormon church, Islamic mosque (cough, splutter!), > >> Sikh temple etc?
Emma wrote: > In article <47EBA2A8.5C9FF...@internode.on.net>, please dont spam says...
> >For all my disagreements, probably the Jehovah's witnesses would be the closest > >to the picture that JC desired.
> Blimey! :-) What? Long winded? Pushy? Love the sound of their > own voice? All that strange stuff about blood transfusions > and the even stranger "God's elect"? > Actually, I've had a nice conversation with a Jehovahs Witness > before now, and I don't agree with being nasty to them, > or even rude, but I'm afraid I can't agree with you > Mordecai. > It's dodgy stuff indeed. A pregnant woman here died recently > rather than have a blood transfusion. Terribly sad :-(
I did not say I liked them. Nor did I say I agreed with them - I said they were probably the closest thing to what JC wanted. They are still far enough away from what JC wanted that it makes little difference.
They have thrown out much of the ideas of the church which ought to be thrown out - and have some of the ideas which the church needs. They also have lots of ideas which ought to be written up in the funnies.
The blood transfusion thing is indeed terribly sad.
-- Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions. When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
