I will be in you forever
randy
David was king, David realized that God lived only in a temporary dwelling,
in a tent. And so he pursued a way to have God dwell in a permanent
dwelling, close to the palace.
When David initially tried to have the presence of God dwell close to Him,
in a physical location, he had the ark of the presence brought near to his
palace in Jerusalem. But one of the men tried to steady the ark as it was
falling off the cart, as it moved, and died under the judgment of God. God
had required that the ark be carried by men on poles, and not on an unsteady
cart. God required the ark to be under ordained supervision of men, and not
carried about, carelessly, by animals of burden.
So David had left the ark of God in another place, away from his personal
residence, and away from the place of his rule. He was afraid that God would
bring judgment upon him or upon his friends, whenever they became careless,
and thought to leave the ark a safe distance away. But the place where the
ark was left became fabulously blessed, and David renewed his interest in
having God live close to him, and close to his place of rule. And he
therefore had the ark moved to Jerusalem.
It was then that David pursued a permanent dwelling for the ark, a permanent
temple, instead of a tent for God to dwell in. But God informed him that in
essence He had chosen to live in a temporary dwelling, in a moveable tent. I
think that God showed His lack of confidence in men, in human rulers, who
like Saul would be faithful one day and unfaithful the next. And it would
ultimately lead to God judging His people for the way they represented Him.
God's purpose, therefore, had been to dwell with men, although He recognized
that He could only live on a temporary basis with men who lacked character.
Not even David was qualified to build a permanent temple for God. And yet
David's dynasty would live on, and his son would be allowed to build the
permanent temple.
What does this all mean but that God *did* want to live on a permanent basis
with men, and that there *was* indeed a way to dwell with men permanently,
even though like David they were imperfect and flawed? This is precisely
what Christianity represents--the fact that God has now come to live *within
us* spiritually on a permanent basis, even though we continue to be flawed
and mortal. The Spirit of God who now lives within us will continue to be
with us, even in our imperfection, and will carry us through death itself,
by virtue of God's promise to remain with us permanently.
randy
Pastor Dave
<rkl...@wavecable.com> spake thusly:
And yet, what you and the rest of the Futurists wait for,
is God in a temple, physically dwelling on Earth with men.
So while Futurists claim to be all about the spiritual,
as you just did, they are really all about the physical.
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
"Love all, trust a few, harm none."
- William Shakespeare
randy
"Pastor Dave"
randy
>>....The Spirit of God who now lives within us will continue to be
>>with us, even in our imperfection, and will carry us through death itself,
>>by virtue of God's promise to remain with us permanently.
> And yet, what you and the rest of the Futurists wait for,
> is God in a temple, physically dwelling on Earth with men.
Why don't you spend some time *listening to* people explain to you what they
really believe, rather than accusing them of believing this or that? You are
wrong so often because you don't listen to others explain what they really
do believe. You shouldn't feel content spending all this time accusing *your
brothers!*
The Scriptures say we should do all things for edifying purposes, Dave. But
you seem to think the gospel ministry is all about rebuke and chasten. Do
you really believe there is no place for love and comfort, for kindness and
generosity? You are one of the least-friendly people I have ever seen on
this newsgroup among Christians, Dave. And yet this kind of format tends to
breed them, because it's a place where antisocial people can spew forth
their bitterness, without anybody knowing who they are.
I could easily befriend you as a Christian, Dave, because you obviously have
an interest in the Bible and in Christian matters. But you simply have to
learn that as a Christian it's okay to be friendly once in awhile. You don't
have to be employed 24-7 with rebuking others! ;)
Incidently, I don't believe in a *physical* temple. Under the new covenant,
*Jesus* is the new temple. And although he is a physical human being (as
well as deity), I do not believe in a rebuilding of the Old Testament temple
of brick and wood.
randy
Pastor Dave
<rkl...@wavecable.com> spake thusly:
>"Pastor Dave"
>randy
>>>....The Spirit of God who now lives within us will continue to be
>>>with us, even in our imperfection, and will carry us through death itself,
>>>by virtue of God's promise to remain with us permanently.
>
>> And yet, what you and the rest of the Futurists wait for,
>> is God in a temple, physically dwelling on Earth with men.
>
>Why don't you spend some time *listening to* people explain to you what they
>really believe, rather than accusing them of believing this or that? You are
>wrong so often because you don't listen to others explain what they really
>do believe. You shouldn't feel content spending all this time accusing *your
>brothers!*
I'm wrong so often? Is that why I turn out to be right?
>I could easily befriend you as a Christian, Dave
And you show that by constantly lying about me, right?
>Incidently, I don't believe in a *physical* temple. Under the new covenant,
>*Jesus* is the new temple. And although he is a physical human being (as
>well as deity), I do not believe in a rebuilding of the Old Testament temple
>of brick and wood.
>randy
I said "Futurists". That is a general statement
and obviously there will be some exceptions
for each part of the general Futurist beliefs.
As for Jesus, He is not a physical human being,
although He can appear and be touched and
so can angels. And those who are physical
human beings do not walk through doors.
To say He is a physical human being, is to say
that a part of Heaven (and only that part which
Jesus occupies) is a physical place.
I know you'd like to keep Him the way that He was,
to raise yourself up, but it just ain't so and Jesus
ascended and was seated in His throne at the
right hand of the Father. That would mean that
the Father must be physical as well.
You Futurists love to talk about Heaven as
a spiritual place and yet, make Jesus in Heaven
a physical being. That makes no sense.
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
The Last Days were in the first century:
James 5:8-9
8) Be YE also patient; establish YOUR hearts:
for the coming of the Lord DRAWETH NIGH.
9) Grudge not one against another, brethren,
lest YE be condemned: behold, the judge
STANDETH BEFORE THE DOOR.
randy
"Pastor Dave"
randy
>>Incidently, I don't believe in a *physical* temple. Under the new
>>covenant,
>>*Jesus* is the new temple. And although he is a physical human being (as
>>well as deity), I do not believe in a rebuilding of the Old Testament
>>temple
>>of brick and wood.
> I said "Futurists". That is a general statement
> and obviously there will be some exceptions
> for each part of the general Futurist beliefs.
Yes, but there is a lot of disagreement over whether a future temple will be
built. Many "futurists" do not believe so. Many believe it will be built. I
can only here say that I am one of the many who do *not* believe in a
rebuilt temple. I think perhaps some kind of temple will be built--I just
don't think it will be a temple of the Law of Moses, in which sacrifices
will be offered and Levitical priests minister. I think it's possible some
kind of temple will be built because temples are built all the time in many
religions. And there is hint in 2 Thessalonians that Antichrist will "take
his seat in the temple of God." I'm not sure what Paul bases this assertion
on, but it may suggest some kind of temple will be built. I just don't
believe that the Law of Moses will ever be regurgitated in the form it once
existed, before 70 AD.
> As for Jesus, He is not a physical human being,
> although He can appear and be touched and
> so can angels. And those who are physical
> human beings do not walk through doors.
On the contrary, God performs miracles and enables physical objects to pass
through solid walls, if He so desires. I believe Jesus was physical, had a
physical body, and passed through walls by the miracle-working power of God.
To deny Jesus had a physical body places you in a cultic belief system.
> To say He is a physical human being, is to say
> that a part of Heaven (and only that part which
> Jesus occupies) is a physical place.
Heaven is the place of God's dwelling, which includes the universe, but
extends into an infinite realm where God identifies His position of
preeminence over all things. It contains territory where deceased saints
temporarily live. But biblically, our "final resting place" is on earth,
when the New Jerusalem descends from heaven.
I didn't know you had such cultic beliefs!
randy