Re: Messianic Jews: a few questions
cornholio
> i. are they considered Jews by other, more traditional Jews?
> ii. are they persecuted in Israel?
> iii. since Yeshua was Jewish is there any difference in
> the way they observe Judaism?
> iv. they don't have Roman crucifixes in their synagogues do
> they (what an abomination that would be, considering the way
> the fucking Romans treated the Jewish people)
> v. do they still accept the Talmud? Or are they more like Karaite
> Jews in this respect?
>
> I apologize if I have offended anyone w/these questions. I
> deliberately
> didn't post this to alt.religion.judaism for exactly this reason.
I'm posting to this group as I have been directed that I may
get answers here.
ruth
> On Jan 4, 12:21 am, cornholio <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > i. are they considered Jews by other, more traditional Jews?
Are Jews who reject Yeshua cut off of the Jewish olive tree?
Ruth
> > ii. are they persecuted in Israel?
Yes.
Ruth
> > iii. since Yeshua was Jewish is there any difference in
> > the way they observe Judaism?
We are to walk just as Yeshua walked, right?
1John 2:6 He that saith He abideth in him ought himself also so to
walk, even as He walked.
Ruth
> > v. do they still accept the Talmud? Or are they more like Karaite
> > Jews in this respect?
Messianic Jews are Scriptural believers. The talmud is not
Scripture.
They believe that Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah.
Here is a site you may find helpful:
http://www.mjaa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Spg_About_History_BrfHst
Ruth
>
> > I apologize if I have offended anyone w/these questions. I
> > deliberately
> > didn't post this to alt.religion.judaism for exactly this reason.
>
> I'm posting to this group as I have been directed that I may
> get answers here.
This is not the best group.
Try CARM Messianic Judaism group.
Ruth
YeshuatheWay
I have heard that you can still be a Jew and be an atheist. But utter
the name of Yeshua and you are no longer considered a Jew!
Snow
> > > i. are they considered Jews by other, more traditional Jews?
>
> Are Jews who reject Yeshua cut off of the Jewish olive tree?
> Ruth
>
> > > ii. are they persecuted in Israel?
>
> Yes.
> Ruth
This doesn't sound very clear to me, can you expound on what you are
saying here?
vince garcia
>
> On Jan 4, 12:21 am, cornholio <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > i. are they considered Jews by other, more traditional Jews?
No they are not
> > ii. are they persecuted in Israel?
They are unpopular, and some would say YES, but 'persecuted' in the
sense that Christians are persecuted in China or islamic countries,
absolutely not.
> > iii. since Yeshua was Jewish is there any difference in
> > the way they observe Judaism?
I can't say, having not seen israeli messianics. There may be some fully
orthodox messianics there. I CAN tell you about so-called "torah
observant" messianics here in this country: they are hypocrites across
the board. They will go on about how the full Law is still in effect,
and that God requires everyone to keep it--but you will never see them
striving to keep ALL the comamdnments as an american orthodox or ultra
orthodox jew does. Rather, the level of religious observance by
messianics is on par with that of religious reform jews, who--though
religious--rationalize tossing out a wide variety of comamndments.
The most religious messianic I have seen in 20 years of affiliation with
the movement is less observant, and less strict, than a sincere orthodox
Jew, and no more religious than a reform or conservative jew, or a 7th
day adventist.
I don't know one messianic who even mikvahs, let alone keeps the sabbath
to the strict requirements the bible actually demands it be kept.
> > iv. they don't have Roman crucifixes in their synagogues do
> > they (what an abomination that would be, considering the way
> > the fucking Romans treated the Jewish people)
No--they do things like kiss the torah scroll, rather than a crucifix of
their savior.
> > v. do they still accept the Talmud? Or are they more like Karaite
> > Jews in this respect?
Many do. some do not. The ones who do not tend to be the less
religiously observant ones. If you're less strict about having to obey
comamdnments, then obviously you do not need the talmud to tell you how
to obey commandments you don't keep anyway
> >
> > I apologize if I have offended anyone w/these questions.
I am only offended by the comment: "What an abomination that would be,
considering the way the fucking Romans treated the Jewish people"
I would have no problem with having a crucifix in my house, and just for
the record, peter blames THE JEWS OF JERUSALEM for the crucifixion, not
the romans!
acts 2:22 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a
man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which
God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of
God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and
hanged on a tree.
AS DOES PAUL!
1 thess 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God
which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like
things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have
persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
I bring this up because you sound like a catholic-bashing guy who wants
to view non-believing religious jews as nothing BUT helpless victims of
oppression, when they are actually indicted and denounced in the New
Testament as murderers of Christ, who were sent into disapora and
slavery becaue of their rejection of the Gospel and their acceptance of
the false messiah bar kochba over the REAL messiah. You may need to be
confronted with that fact and decide how you will deal with it, instead
of turning a blind eye to it and denouncing crusades and inquisitions,
and such. (assuming that IS what you do, because there are many
politically correct people like that, though certainly not everyone is.)
vince garcia
>
> This is not the best group.
> Try CARM Messianic Judaism group.
>
> Ruth
Do you hang there, ruth? Matt, the founder of CARM, is a good friend of
mine.
cornholio
> cornholio wrote:
>
> > On Jan 4, 12:21 am, cornholio <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > i. are they considered Jews by other, more traditional Jews?
>
> No they are not
>
> > > ii. are they persecuted in Israel?
>
> They are unpopular, and some would say YES, but 'persecuted' in the
> sense that Christians are persecuted in China or islamic countries,
> absolutely not.
>
That's what I figured.
>
> I am only offended by the comment: "What an abomination that would be,
> considering the way the fucking Romans treated the Jewish people"
>
> I would have no problem with having a crucifix in my house, and just for
> the record, peter blames THE JEWS OF JERUSALEM for the crucifixion, not
> the romans!
>
Couldn't the Roman torture device be considered idolatry?
I thought all the apostles and most of Yeshua's followers were
Jewish weren't they? They didn't renounce their faith in Judaism
did they?
> acts 2:22 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a
> man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which
> God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
> 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of
> God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
>
> Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and
> hanged on a tree.
>
> AS DOES PAUL!
>
> 1 thess 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God
> which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like
> things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
> 15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have
> persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
>
Paul never met Yeshua. He wasn't one of the original apostles/
disciples.
Why does he have any authority to comment on the crucifixion?
I've read that Pauline Christianity is famously anti-semitic/anti-
judaic.
Here's some of wikipedia says about Pauline Christianity:
"Others perceive in Paul's writings teachings that are radically
different from the original teachings of Jesus documented in the
canonical gospels, early Acts and the rest of the New Testament, such
as the Epistle of James. The term is generally considered a pejorative
by traditionalist Christians as it carries the implication that
Christianity as it is known is a corruption of the original teachings
of Jesus, as for example in the belief of a Great Apostasy."
> I bring this up because you sound like a catholic-bashing guy who wants
> to view non-believing religious jews as nothing BUT helpless victims of
> oppression, when they are actually indicted and denounced in the New
> Testament as murderers of Christ, who were sent into disapora and
> slavery becaue of their rejection of the Gospel and their acceptance of
> the false messiah bar kochba over the REAL messiah. You may need to be
> confronted with that fact and decide how you will deal with it, instead
> of turning a blind eye to it and denouncing crusades and inquisitions,
> and such. (assuming that IS what you do, because there are many
> politically correct people like that, though certainly not everyone is.)
>
I don't think much of the Catholic Church, but the rest of your
analysis is
completely off-base.
The Romans definitely persecuted the Jewish people though --
especially
after the revolt thus my "fucking" comment.
Thanks for the answers.
cornholio
> On Jan 4, 9:40 pm, cornholio <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 4, 12:21 am, cornholio <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > i. are they considered Jews by other, more traditional Jews?
>
> Are Jews who reject Yeshua cut off of the Jewish olive tree?
> Ruth
>
I don't know. I'm not Jewish. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
> > > ii. are they persecuted in Israel?
>
> Yes.
> Ruth
>
That's sad.
> > > iii. since Yeshua was Jewish is there any difference in
> > > the way they observe Judaism?
>
> We are to walk just as Yeshua walked, right?
> 1John 2:6 He that saith He abideth in him ought himself also so to
> walk, even as He walked.
> Ruth
>
That makes sense.
> > > v. do they still accept the Talmud? Or are they more like Karaite
> > > Jews in this respect?
>
> Messianic Jews are Scriptural believers. The talmud is not
> Scripture.
> They believe that Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah.
> Here is a site you may find helpful:http://www.mjaa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Spg_About_History_BrfHst
> Ruth
>
>
> > > I apologize if I have offended anyone w/these questions. I
> > > deliberately
> > > didn't post this to alt.religion.judaism for exactly this reason.
>
> > I'm posting to this group as I have been directed that I may
> > get answers here.
>
> This is not the best group.
> Try CARM Messianic Judaism group.
>
> Ruth
Thank you. I never meant this post to be anti-semitic/anti-Judaic or
to offend anyone.
The reason I became interested in this topic is because I noticed
a Christian guy I know was practicing reading/writing Hebrew. On
talking to him, he informed me that he kept the Sabbath and observed
Passover and Hannukah on his own because Yeshua and his followers
did.
vince garcia
>
> On Jan 5, 4:27 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > cornholio wrote:
> >
> > > On Jan 4, 12:21 am, cornholio <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > i. are they considered Jews by other, more traditional Jews?
> >
> > No they are not
> >
> > > > ii. are they persecuted in Israel?
> >
> > They are unpopular, and some would say YES, but 'persecuted' in the
> > sense that Christians are persecuted in China or islamic countries,
> > absolutely not.
> >
>
> That's what I figured.
>
> >
> > I am only offended by the comment: "What an abomination that would be,
> > considering the way the fucking Romans treated the Jewish people"
> >
> > I would have no problem with having a crucifix in my house, and just for
> > the record, peter blames THE JEWS OF JERUSALEM for the crucifixion, not
> > the romans!
> >
>
> Couldn't the Roman torture device be considered idolatry?
If you pray to it
>
> I thought all the apostles and most of Yeshua's followers were
> Jewish weren't they? They didn't renounce their faith in Judaism
> did they?
No. But GENTILES were exempted form judaism, despite what the deceived
messianics here teach.
Where no law is, there is no transgression.
Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised.
Is any called in uncircumcision? Let him not be circumcised.
>
> > acts 2:22 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a
> > man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which
> > God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
> > 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of
> > God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
> >
> > Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and
> > hanged on a tree.
> >
> > AS DOES PAUL!
> >
> > 1 thess 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God
> > which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like
> > things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
> > 15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have
> > persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
> >
>
> Paul never met Yeshua. He wasn't one of the original apostles/
> disciples.
> Why does he have any authority to comment on the crucifixion?
A comment like that is actually messianic heresy, and we hear it here
regularly. The writings of paul, and his position as an apostle, are not
open to debate. Accept the NT or reject it, but cutting it up and saying
"Paul said something different from Jesus" is heresy, and someone with
that notion does not understand the NT or Christianity, and must be
denounced by real christians.
It is not "Jesus said this, BUT paul said that"
It is "Jesus said this, AND Paul said that"
You will be judged by every word of the new testament, including paul's,
and if you approach the NT under the notion that parts contradict each
other and we must decide which part to keep and which part to reject,
you will typically reject the plan of salvation, return to justification
by the Law, and be damned.
That is the fate of MANY messianics, including some who are here. A
number of them do, in fact, reject or question the legitimacy of paul's
writings, and will pay a price in hell for their substitute theology
they embrace in favor of what paul taught
>
> I've read that Pauline Christianity is famously anti-semitic/anti-
> judaic.
>
> Here's some of wikipedia says about Pauline Christianity:
>
> "Others perceive in Paul's writings teachings that are radically
> different from the original teachings of Jesus documented in the
> canonical gospels, early Acts and the rest of the New Testament, such
> as the Epistle of James. The term is generally considered a pejorative
> by traditionalist Christians as it carries the implication that
> Christianity as it is known is a corruption of the original teachings
> of Jesus, as for example in the belief of a Great Apostasy."
Anything questioning the full authority, inspiration, and authority of
the 26 books of the NT is heresy that must immediately be denied, or you
place your salvation at great risk, because the demonic spirit behind
questioning it will lead you to a false salvation doctrine that will
damn you
I have seen it here for 15 years on a repeating basis by deceived people
teaching a false Christianity that includes mandatory torah observance,
a position that can damn you. I used to be among them until I went back
to the Bible and tested the doctrines against the actual NT, and found
they were false teachings, leading to a false Christ, with a false path
of justification
>
> > I bring this up because you sound like a catholic-bashing guy who wants
> > to view non-believing religious jews as nothing BUT helpless victims of
> > oppression, when they are actually indicted and denounced in the New
> > Testament as murderers of Christ, who were sent into disapora and
> > slavery becaue of their rejection of the Gospel and their acceptance of
> > the false messiah bar kochba over the REAL messiah. You may need to be
> > confronted with that fact and decide how you will deal with it, instead
> > of turning a blind eye to it and denouncing crusades and inquisitions,
> > and such. (assuming that IS what you do, because there are many
> > politically correct people like that, though certainly not everyone is.)
> >
>
> I don't think much of the Catholic Church, but the rest of your
> analysis is
> completely off-base.
good.
>
> The Romans definitely persecuted the Jewish people though --
> especially
> after the revolt thus my "fucking" comment.
Yes. But don't infer from that, that judaism is the "right" religion, or
that real Christianity is judaism with Christ added to keeping the Law.
REAL Christians, worldwide, are being slaughtered on a daily basis.
>
> Thanks for the answers.
vince garcia
>
> Thank you. I never meant this post to be anti-semitic/anti-Judaic or
> to offend anyone.
>
> The reason I became interested in this topic is because I noticed
> a Christian guy I know was practicing reading/writing Hebrew. On
> talking to him, he informed me that he kept the Sabbath and observed
> Passover and Hannukah on his own because Yeshua and his followers
> did.
Your next questions to him should be:
"If you do not keep those sorts of jewish festivals and laws--what will
happen to you? Might you not make heaven?"
"Do you believe people keeping those jewish laws are the REAL
Christians, compared to sunday-worshipping, non-torah observant
Christians??
Rod
As are many Hindu's and Muslims. Time to stop playing the prophecy
card and be honest, something that christians are rarely good at.
Terry Cross
I am posting the soc.culture.Jewish so they can get used to be
offended -- if that is how they choose to react.
TCross
Terry Cross
Hey, Vince? Who writes to a Christian group with the screen name
"Corn Holi-o"? Do you think that person is sincere?
TCross
vince garcia
I did notice that, but the question and reply seemed sincere
vince garcia
By moslems
>and Muslims.
They haven't even begun to reap a fair recompense for the genocide they
have put Christians and others through for over a thousand years.
Rod
Baloney..have you forgotten the Crusades, the inquisition, the
slaughter of the indians of south america by the catholic spaniards,
or the murder of the cathars for their lands in souther France by the
catholic church ? And I can name more of Christianities crimes if you
wish to see them, such as the catholic church turning a blind eye to
the genocide against the jews in WW2 ? And please, don't hand me any
crap about catholics not being Christians...
vince garcia
God bless the crusaders! If this were the Middle Ages, I'd join them and
Head for the Holy Land to free it from the moslems who conquered it and
exterminated the Christians down to a manageable level.
If you think I have even the slightest compassion for Moslems during the
Crusades, you are sadly mistaken. I wholehertedly approve of the
Crusades against them.
And I make no apology for the Inquisition whatever. None. Not a bit.
the
> slaughter of the indians of south america by the catholic spaniards,
> or the murder of the cathars for their lands in souther France by the
> catholic church ? And I can name more of Christianities crimes if you
> wish to see them, such as the catholic church turning a blind eye to
> the genocide against the jews in WW2 ? And please, don't hand me any
> crap about catholics not being Christians...
So? I don't care. What the catholic church did or did not do is of no
interest to me whatever.
Terry Cross
Why would this person think his/her questions would "offend" Jewish
people? You might think a person so sensitive to giving offense would
reconsider taking that screen name in a religious news group.
TCross
cornholio
Over a million Christians died fighting the Nazis, including my great
uncle.
While some Christians are Catholic, not all Christians are.
A "blind eye" doesn't constitute approval of a genocide. The Catholic
Church
was hardly in a position to DO anything about it. They had no standing
army
and their headquarters was in a country allied to the nazis. However,
members
of the Catholic clergy, as well as laity did assist Jews to flee nazi
persecution.
Furthermore, past atrocities and persecution don't justify the present
persecution,
ethnic cleansing and murder of other faiths being committed by
muslimes NOW
in the 21st century renob.
cornholio
The First Crusade was to throw the muslimes out of Europe, which
has turned out to be a good thing in the long run because the
islamopigs
are still living in their 7th century theocracies, while Europe moved
on
out of the Dark Ages.
> And I make no apology for the Inquisition whatever. None. Not a bit.
>
I can't agree with you here. The Inquisition was ugly and had little
to do w/what Yeshua preached.
vince garcia
Actually, historins now realise it was largely a myth propagated by
anti-catholic brits. The BBC did a good documentary on it a few years
ago.
But it is hard to kill ingrained myths
Rod
Why are you hiding behind a Beavis and Buttface sock ?
Rod
direction..
>
>
>
>
> the
>> slaughter of the indians of south america by the catholic spaniards,
>> or the murder of the cathars for their lands in souther France by the
>> catholic church ? And I can name more of Christianities crimes if you
>> wish to see them, such as the catholic church turning a blind eye to
>> the genocide against the jews in WW2 ? And please, don't hand me any
>> crap about catholics not being Christians...
>
> So? I don't care. What the catholic church did or did not do is of no
> interest to me whatever.
They are your brothers, your churches are descended from them, you
should care.
cornholio
Why do you care?
Terry Cross
Hm. Good swing, solid connect, nice follow-through. Verry
impressive.
TCross
vince garcia
too late--the moslems already exterminated most of my family.
Now I'm waiting to see them get payback
Terry Cross
You expect "payback" from people who did you no wrong? Where will you
be applying Jesus' command to forgive those who have trespassed
against you? Is that just for little stuff and things that don't
matter?
Please explain.
TCross
vince garcia
>
> On Jan 6, 8:36 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > Rod wrote:
> >
> > > vince garcia wrote:
> >
> > > > If you think I have even the slightest compassion for Moslems during the
> > > > Crusades, you are sadly mistaken. I wholehertedly approve of the
> > > > Crusades against them.
> >
> > > > And I make no apology for the Inquisition whatever. None. Not a bit.
> >
> > > We'll see how big your balls are when the axe is swinging your
> > > direction..
> >
> > too late--the moslems already exterminated most of my family.
> >
> > Now I'm waiting to see them get payback
>
> You expect "payback" from people who did you no wrong?
They did me plenty of wrong. But beyond that, they are the enemies of
christianity and the jews, and we are in a war with them. I am just
waiting for the rest of the country, and israel, to wake up about that,
then i trust that appropriate action will be taken. But they'll have to
set off their suitcase nuke first before people will see what a pox they
are
Terry Cross
> Terry Cross wrote:
>
> > On Jan 6, 8:36 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > Rod wrote:
>
> > > > vince garcia wrote:
>
> > > > > If you think I have even the slightest compassion for Moslems during the
> > > > > Crusades, you are sadly mistaken. I wholehertedly approve of the
> > > > > Crusades against them.
>
> > > > > And I make no apology for the Inquisition whatever. None. Not a bit.
>
> > > > We'll see how big your balls are when the axe is swinging your
> > > > direction..
>
> > > too late--the moslems already exterminated most of my family.
>
> > > Now I'm waiting to see them get payback
>
> > You expect "payback" from people who did you no wrong?
>
> They did me plenty of wrong.
Those women and children, those merchants, farmers, and artisans who
are being murdered in this war did YOU wrong? How so?
> But beyond that, they are the enemies of
> christianity and the jews, and we are in a war with them.
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use
you, and persecute you;
Luke 6:27
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them
which hate you,
Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing
again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of
the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
> I am just
> waiting for the rest of the country, and israel, to wake up about that,
> then i trust that appropriate action will be taken. But they'll have to
> set off their suitcase nuke first before people will see what a pox they
> are
Not all Christians set aside the commandments of Jesus so lightly as
do you.
TCross
Rod
If it is such a touchy question to answer that you have
to use a dodge, then perhaps you shouldn't be doing it...
Rod
I call 'em like I see them.
cornholio
Lebanese, Nigerian, Eritrean, Ethiopian, Armenian, Assyrian, Iraqi and
Egyptian Christians
have all experienced or are experiencing the same thing.
In my ACT for America chapter I've met Iraqi and Egyptian (i.e.
Coptic) Christians
who have told me how the muslime fucks treat Christians. The Christian
Iraqi woman
had both her Christian brothers killed by muzzies in Iraq and NOTHING
was done
about it. The founder of ACT for America was persecuted by muslimes in
Lebanon
and has received THOUSANDS of death threats in the US from muslimes.
Of course, it's not JUST Christians or Jews who are persecuted by
muslime scum.
It's Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Bahais, Sikhs. Basically anyone
not muslime.
cornholio
"A dodge"? One of the reasons I use a 'nym is that I'm opposed
to pislam, muslimes and islamofascism. I've noticed that people
who oppose pislam frequently experience death threats or, in the
case of Theodore Van Gogh, death at the hands of the islamopigs.
Terry Cross
Don't worry about it. If they wanted you, they could find you. Any
bearded camel driver who could evade the most highly technical
defenses in the world and and destroy the World Trade Center from a
cave in Afghanistan would have no problem finding one ignorant hateful
Jew hiding behind a computer screen -- and slitting his throat with a
rusty knife -- if that camel driver were so inclined.
If you are not already wallowing in a pool of your own gore, it's
because they figure you are not worth the trouble.
TCross
vince garcia
We'll see how you hold up when it happens to you
vince garcia
Right. They're barbarians, and have been from the inception of their
religion. Their entire history is one of muder, genocide, and forced
conversion--not just in ancient times, but even to this day!
Terry Cross
And if I failed to follow the commandments of Jesus, how would that
excuse your failure?
TCross
Terry Cross
You speak of the Jews, or the Muslims? For surely, your statement is
true of the Jews.
TCross
cornholio
My Remington, semi-auto 12 gauge may say differently and
my Dan Wesson .357 magnum may have something to say
as well.
Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again.
cornholio
Objection: assuming facts not in evidence. You're projecting your
own life problems in Vince.
cornholio
I've heard that the Jews had forced conversions sometime BCE -- but
that was over 2000 years ago. The muzzies, OTOH, are still continuing
their
SOP of persecution and murder of people of other faiths, all over the
world.
Terry Cross
"BCE"? So you ARE Jewish. Such a surprise.
> -- but
> that was over 2000 years ago. The muzzies, OTOH, are still continuing
> their
> SOP of persecution and murder of people of other faiths, all over the
> world.
"Forced conversion" and "persecution and murder" are apples and
oranges. The Jews are heavily involved with "persecution and murder"
in the Middle East even as we speak. The Jews were the authors of the
Russian Communist Revolution in which millions upon millions of
Christians and Muslims were killed.
The Jews were not so involved in forced conversion in the Old
Testament -- rather, "persecution and murder" was the order of the
day, according to their own history books.
TCross
Terry Cross
Then your silly fears are just silly, and your nym is just
deliberately offensive.
TCross
vince garcia
If you mean the poor, beleaguered palestinians who wish nothing more
than to live in peace and brotherhood with their jewish friends, i think
the israelis have shown a ridiculous amount of restraint against them.
The Jews were the authors of the
> Russian Communist Revolution in which millions upon millions of
> Christians and Muslims were killed.
That is an anti-semitic statement, terry. The "jews" (like Trotsky)
involved in that were atheists. Blame atheists, not jews.
vince garcia
I like the way you think. Good common sense.
Terry Cross
You expect that of a people who have been driven from their country by
massacre and terrorism within living memory? What Would the Jews Do?
You don't have to answer -- we both know that. The Jews are still not
willing to live in peace and friendship with their German friends -
unless the Germans are writing billion-Euro tribute checks every year
like the Jews' American friends.
>
> The Jews were the authors of the
>
> > Russian Communist Revolution in which millions upon millions of
> > Christians and Muslims were killed.
>
> That is an anti-semitic statement, terry.
But true.
> The "jews" (like Trotsky)
> involved in that were atheists. Blame atheists, not jews.
A Jew is a Jew is a Jew, as they say of themselves. And even the
religious Jews can often not decide whether they believe in God. We
have many in this group who say that restricting God to the category
of "existence" is putting an unnecessary restriction on God.
cornholio
The palesimians actively persecute the few Christians living
amongst them. It's an islamofascist state in which the party platforms
all three
parties associated with the country (Hamas, Hezbollah and Fata) have
the total destruction of Israel as one of their stated goals.
Terry Cross
Documented proof is forthcoming, of course?
> It's an islamofascist state in which the party platforms
> all three
> parties associated with the country (Hamas, Hezbollah and Fata) have
> the total destruction of Israel as one of their stated goals.
But of course not! Justice requires only the return of the land to
the rightful owners. Destroying the land would be ridiculous.
TCross
cornholio
http://www.christianpersecution.info/index.php?view=6730
> > It's an islamofascist state in which the party platforms
> > all three
> > parties associated with the country (Hamas, Hezbollah and Fata) have
> > the total destruction of Israel as one of their stated goals.
>
> But of course not! Justice requires only the return of the land to
> the rightful owners. Destroying the land would be ridiculous.
>
> TCross
Suck my balls spag.
Rod
Again, answer her question please...
vince garcia
I don't owe you or terry an explanation.
I eagerly await the day israel deals with them appropriately, and I
would be delighted to help israel do that
Terry Cross
>
> > > It's an islamofascist state in which the party platforms
> > > all three
> > > parties associated with the country (Hamas, Hezbollah and Fata) have
> > > the total destruction of Israel as one of their stated goals.
>
> > But of course not! Justice requires only the return of the land to
> > the rightful owners. Destroying the land would be ridiculous.
>
> > TCross
>
> Suck my balls spag.
I will send the crew over right away. http://www.sewerequipment.com/vacuum.htm
TCross
Terry Cross
TCross
vince garcia
luke 22 36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let
him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him
sell his garment, and buy one.
Terry Cross
Matthew 26:51-52
51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his
hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's,
and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place:
for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
TCross
Rod
Yes you DO! I'll agree with you only so far as it involves
the actual murderers themselves, no one else. I'm NOT a
christian, and I do believe that if a family member is
done wrong or murdered, then the perpetrator should be
killed by a family member of his victim ONLY, in the interest
of making it a just killing.
I DON'T believe that you have the right hold all muslims accountable
for killings they had NO PART IN. To do this, and to plan their deaths
makes YOU A MURDERER, and their family members are due the same rights
that I believe YOU are.
Rod
Agreed. No more or less violent than any other religion.
vince garcia
I don't owe you jack. And I could care less whether you agree with me or
not, or what your opinion about it is
vince garcia
Bothers you that he backed it up?
Terry Cross
Do you approve the use of that language in a public forum?
TCross
vince garcia
no, but it happens. Emotions can run hot on some topics. I certainly
can't throw stones. But you challenged him, and he showed you proof of
what he said. I think it really bothers you that he was able to. You may
sympathize with them, but these people aren't simply a bunch of
oppressed innocents, but they are in a war with israel, judaism, and
christianity. I'm smart enough to see that, and and smart enough to take
the fight to the enemy and force the enemy into submission before he
gets stronger and becomes a bigger threat. Tolerance and patience with
an enemy whose religion teaches him to destroy you and yours is insane.
Rod
If that were true then you wouldn't have bothered with an answer. I
think you're just another gun psychotic looking for an excuse to put a
round in someone for any reason that would keep you from going afoul of
the law...
Terry Cross
You don't HAVE jack. You are angry, you are vengeful, and you wrap
yourself in the hormone rush of righteous rage, the "glory of war,"
and the smell of blood like an enraged predator. You wouldn't know a
Christian value if it jumped up and bit you. The farmer of olive
trees against whom you make war is more an asset to Civilization than
you. You are a liability.
> And I could care less ...
Your understanding of English is as deficient as a TeeVee couch
potato.
TCross
Terry Cross
Is that what you think? I caught a whiff of his putrefaction in
earlier messages, then discovered it in the open in that one and that
was all I needed to know. I didn't even see the "proof" until you
mentioned it.
TCross
Rod
I'm not even a christian and yet I'm finding myself saying AMEN.
cornholio
Sorry retard, but you're wrong. If you don't believe me then haul
your worthless ass to any islamopig shitocracy and find out
for yourself.
cornholio
Exactly. As Michael Ejercito says: "you're a nazi and there's nothing
polite or nice about it." I extend the concept to include all nazis,
whatever
their flavor: ne0, classic, diet or islamic.
Terry Cross
You write like a violence freak. You are probably a member of the IDF.
TCross
Rod
So, for having an opinion opposing yours I have suddenly fallen into
your evil graces. Typical Pauline Christian behavior.
There are good muslims and bad, just as there are good christians and
bad. I would no more condemn an entire race for the agression of many
of it's members than I would you kind for your agressiveness and
violent nature.
I do believe in protecting our own, but against ACTUAL THREATS..not
against the innocent or harmless. And even should these muslims you
speak of voice a dislike for our culture and ways, as long as they don't
take up terror tactics against you or me, they remain innocent of being
what is called a terrorist. Having and opinion isn't a criminal act,
if it were YOU would be one of the first to be exceuted for your thoughts.
Linda Lee
Because Paul was in good with Gamaliel who seemed to have chief
authority over who was condemned to death and who was not?
Paul says in Acts 22:3, "I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in
Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet BROUGHT UP in this city AT THE FEET OF
GAMALIEL, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the
fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day".
Following the Messiah's crucifixion, the council of high priests
wanted to condemn the apostles to death, but Gamaliel alone advised
against it, and they let them go:
Act 5:25 Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men [the
apostles] whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and
teaching the people.
Act 5:26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them
without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have
been stoned.
Act 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the
council: and the high priest asked them,
Act 5:28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not
teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your
doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We
ought to obey God rather than men.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up JESUS, WHOM YE SLEW AND
HANGED ON A TREE.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and
a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the
Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Act 5:33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and TOOK
COUNSEL TO SLAY THEM.
Act 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named
GAMALIEL, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people,
and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
Act 5:35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to
yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
Act 5:36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to
be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined
themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were
scattered, and brought to nought.
Act 5:37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the
taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and
all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
Act 5:38 And now I say unto you, REFRAIN FROM THESE MEN, AND LET THEM
ALONE: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to
nought:
Act 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye
be found even to fight against God.
Act 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the
apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak
in the name of Jesus, and LET THEM GO.
>
> A comment like that is actually messianic heresy, and we hear it here
> regularly. The writings of paul, and his position as an apostle, are not
> open to debate. Accept the NT or reject it, but cutting it up and saying
> "Paul said something different from Jesus" is heresy, and someone with
> that notion does not understand the NT or Christianity, and must be
> denounced by real christians.
>
> It is not "Jesus said this, BUT paul said that"
>
> It is "Jesus said this, AND Paul said that"
Christ said for the apostles to be "harmless as doves" (Matt 10:16),
but Paul said "I will not spare: since ye seek a proof of Christ
speaking in me" (II Cor. 13:2-3), and "What will ye? shall I come unto
you with a rod, or in love" (I Cor. 4:21).
>
> You will be judged by every word of the new testament, including paul's,
Nowhere does the Bible say we will be judged by every word of the New
Testament, nor does it say to be a follower of Christ one must accept
Paul, or any other person for that matter, EXCEPT CHRIST.
Matt. 12:36, "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall
speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by
thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be
condemned."
> > Thanks for the answers.