How Many True Gurus Are There?
Michael Martin
According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic
Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being. I know there are some
who will disagree with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
Those who want to go beyond the reach of mind and maya, to become immortal
and free from the cycle of birth and death, should go to one of the two
above- mentioned Masters, get initiated, and they will achieve their goal.
Those who get initiated by one of the two Sat Gurus will reach their True
Home, known as Sach Khand. It is the place of eternal life, or everlasting
life, as Christ called it. Only a Master, who has access to that region, can
take others there.
Michael Martin
A Sant Mat Guru
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Pigme563
READ YOUR POSTS, AND IN MY OPINION YOU ARE A "TRUE NUT
CASE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOUR MAJESTY, KINGSHIP OR WHATEVER YOU THINK YOU ARE.
HILE -OH YOU SEE MY POINT. DON'T YOU YOUR ROYAL HINEY?
yogi R. Lund
enlightenment. Are you a pedophile, sir, trying to lure the impressionable
into some sick scheme by a surreptitious route? You are too contrived to
actually be deluded, so some such motivation is indicated. If you are not
abnormally depraved, why don't you just subscribe to a "lonely hearts" list
for your seductions or orgies? You are so patently lurid it will be pointless
to deny it.
In article <7d6n80$kai$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
Fewtch
There is only one true Guru in the world. To meet him or her, go look
in any available mirror. Bow before the Guru. Now you're ready to
begin to learn!
Tim
>On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:07:48 GMT, nom...@one.xs4all.nl (Eleph) wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:29:00 GMT, sh...@hotmail.com (Michael Martin)
>wrote:
>
>>How Many True Gurus Are There?
>>
>>According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic
>>Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being.
>
>It is nice of you to admit that you could be wrong, but let me assure
>you you are wrong, dead wrong. In fact you so clearly demonstrate your
>limited vision that those who do believe you do not deserve any
>better.
-----
Visit THE CORE of the Worldwide Web at:
http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html -
Spiritual Writings, Poetry, Live Chat and much more.
Bruce Morgen
>The condition you are indulging in is called neither meditation nor
>enlightenment. Are you a pedophile, sir, trying to lure the impressionable
>into some sick scheme by a surreptitious route? You are too contrived to
>actually be deluded, so some such motivation is indicated.
I suspect there is an
assumption behind this
particular conclusion --
wouldn't you consider it
possible for a generally
coherent writer with a
"contrived" presentation
to be deluded? As Mr.
Martin's most persistent
public opponent -- I feel
he about as much of a
"Mystic Adept" or a "Sat
Guru" as he is the
Dowager Empress Of China
and I'll stand by that
assessment -- there has
never been any indication
that he has deviant sexual
proclivities or that he is
trying to fool others any
more than his rampant
imagination has fooled him.
The only chelas of his I'm
aware of communicate with
him via e-mail -- this
brings up other issues but
seems to counterindicate
any sexual motivation.
>If you are not
>abnormally depraved, why don't you just subscribe to a "lonely hearts" list
>for your seductions or orgies? You are so patently lurid it will be pointless
>to deny it.
>
This seems quite inferential
on your part -- even if
there are hidden motives
behind Mr. Martin's rather
awkward and, as you say,
"contrived" Usenet presence,
why look at sex to the
exclusion of other
gratifications like acclaim
or the ego rush of being
adored by obsequious
sycophants? In some people
the drive for such
acknowledgement is much
stronger than lust!
>In article <7d6n80$kai$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> sh...@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote:
>> How Many True Gurus Are There?
>>
>> According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic
>> Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being. I know there are some
>> who will disagree with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
>> Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
>>
>> Those who want to go beyond the reach of mind and maya, to become immortal
>> and free from the cycle of birth and death, should go to one of the two
>> above- mentioned Masters, get initiated, and they will achieve their goal.
>> Those who get initiated by one of the two Sat Gurus will reach their True
>> Home, known as Sach Khand. It is the place of eternal life, or everlasting
>> life, as Christ called it. Only a Master, who has access to that region, can
>> take others there.
>>
>> Michael Martin
>> A Sant Mat Guru
>>
>> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>>
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
__________________________________________________
http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
m(_ _)m
Fewtch
Let me flesh it out a little, then -
"The One true guru"
There is only one living guru in the entire world. To meet him/her, go
stand before any available mirror. Bow to the guru. Offer your deep
love and respect. Ask Him or Her if you are ready to learn. If the
answer is yes, then the teaching can begin.
Embark upon the path of Bhaktananda (Devotion) with the guru you've
met. Love the Self in the guru, and learn from that Self.
Better? :-)
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:02:32 GMT, nom...@one.xs4all.nl (Eleph) wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:12:35 GMT, few...@eskimo.com (Fewtch) wrote:
>
>>There is only one true Guru in the world. To meet him or her, go look
>>in any available mirror. Bow before the Guru. Now you're ready to
>>begin to learn!
>
>Without honesty there is nothing to learn. The mirror does not reflect
>what you wish to see, but it reflects what is really there. But
>understanding does not come from just looking in the mirror,
>understanding comes from the heart and not from the mouth. Therefor
>this honesty must be in your heart.
Darth Veda
According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being. I know there are some who will disagree with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
Maybe you should do some tee vee commercials! Warn everyone
about them false prophets that are going around!
--
Q: What does it mean when the flag is at half-mast at the
post office?
A: They're hiring.
Gordon Murl
>
> How Many True Gurus Are There?
>
> Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being. I know there are some
> who will disagree with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
> Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
What confusion. Opinions are an expression of an un-liberated mind and
according to you I don't exist, which is very much untrue.
>
> Those who want to go beyond the reach of mind and maya, to become immortal
> and free from the cycle of birth and death, should go to one of the two
> above- mentioned Masters, get initiated, and they will achieve their goal.
> Those who get initiated by one of the two Sat Gurus will reach their True
> Home, known as Sach Khand. It is the place of eternal life, or everlasting
> life, as Christ called it. Only a Master, who has access to that region, can
> take others there.
Those who want liberation and freedom from all manner of limitation
should allow the flow of attention inwardly as well as externally. This
is a worthy meditation. Liberation isn't bestowed and it isn't
something you acquire in the marketplace of mystic adepts. There is the
idea that you need the help of a master, is this so? Who can say with
certainty for you? Below the surface of idea's the reality of yourself
resides. Live at the surface and you can play with Michael. Be a light
unto yourself and you will find out whether you are the lost soul you
imagine yourself to be.
>
> Michael Martin
> A Sant Mat Guru
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
Gordon Murl
jo...@ix.netcom.com
[snip]
> What confusion. Opinions are an expression of an un-liberated mind and
> according to you I don't exist, which is very much untrue.
You've made an assumption about liberated minds. It is not the mind that
is liberated anyway, it is the sense of self as an 'individual *only*' that
departs. The individual so blessed by the event of realization *does*
maintain a sense of individuality, it's just the idea that the person
is *only* the limited individual that goes away.
--jodyr.
Fewtch
Here are some steps on the path to enlightenment, or Self-Realization.
The path I outline here is jnana-yoga. Knowing these things will not
"enlighten" you, but they will bring you much closer, if you believe
them absolutely. That's the key: IF YOU BELIEVE THEM ABSOLUTELY.
Take what I say on absolute faith as *TRUTH*, and believe these
things, *if they make sense to you*, and you will be much closer.
Keep affirming them every day, as often as possible, and you will come
closer and closer. Eventually, the process will gather momentum and
will carry you into enlightenment. This could take anywhere from one
day to twenty years to never in this lifetime, depending on many
factors, mostly your own determination and desire for it.
Let go of the hope that you will "become enlightened" in this
lifetime. It might happen, it might not. This is the first and
perhaps most difficult preliminary. Let go of all hope of ever
"achieving the goal" of enlightenment. Do this FIRST, before anything
else. It's a humbling exercise, and will help you decide if
enlightenment is something you WANT or just something you THINK you
want. Enlightenment is not something that can be forced, or willed,
or worked for. To do so will drive you further and further away from
it.
Preliminaries:
(1) ***You are already enlightened.*** There are things "suppressing"
or blocking the knowledge/experience/perception of this. You don't
BECOME enlightened. You already ARE. But to EXPERIENCE it, you have
to remove the blindfold over your "eyes." Think of it as being like a
very dirty pane of glass. REALIZING enlightenment is the process of
cleaning the glass, so you see that you are enlightened. Right now,
"you see through a glass, darkly." Enlightenment is the natural state
of everyone, but through ignorance of Truth and the blinding
influences of the senses and of desires and pre-conceived ideas and
everything else that makes up the ego, you don't know that you are.
There is no "seeking" to be done, it is already found. Just some
correction of wrong perceptions. Don't EVER think you can "achieve"
enlightenment. YOU GOT IT ALREADY!
(2) You must renounce the idea that you OWN anything. Everything you
think you own, including your body, doesn't belong to you. One day
your body will die, so do you really own it? Someone else will bury
it, or burn it. Everything you have will one day be dust, or will
belong to somebody else. Let go of all attachments to material
objects.
(3) Let go of attachments to pleasures of the senses. They are nice
to experience, but they are not important at all, and be ready to give
them up at anytime (you would have to anyway, if you dropped dead of a
heart attack in the next minute). You don't have to stop doing
anything, unless you can't let go of the ATTACHMENT to it. "If thine
own eyes offend thee, pluck them out." If you think of anything in
life that you're not willing to drop or stop doing, right this minute,
then give it up completely, NOW.
Main Points:
(1) You are not a body. Stop identifying yourself with the body. If
you can point toward your body and say "this is me" and mean it, you
are identifying with the body. Your body is a piece of machinery that
operates in a wonderful way, but it's just that - machinery. It is
not YOU. YOU are not a machine. Release attachment to the body. Let
it be there, feed it when it needs fed, let it rest when it is tired,
but it is not YOU!
(3) You are not a mind. The mind thinks thoughts, but it is not you.
How can it be? One minute the mind thinks one thing, the next it
thinks another. If you were the mind, you would be mutating from
minute to minute as thoughts changed. So YOU are not the mind.
(4) You are not emotions. Emotions change from minute to minute. You
don't mutate into something else every time feelings change. Don't
identify with emotions. Release attachment to them.
(5) You are not memories, or what is experienced by the senses,
either. The mind processes electrochemical impulses received by
sound, sight, taste, etc or by the triggering of a past memory. This
is a wonderful process, but it is not who you are!
(6) At this point, there may seem to be nothing left (if there is,
it's probably not you). EXACTLY. There is nothing perceivable that
you are. What you are is BEYOND all normal perception, beyond all
thought. The massive gap between being "unenlightened" and being
"enlightened" is to perceive that which cannot be perceived by "normal
means." So how is it to be perceived? Well, lie down. Quiet your
thoughts, any way you can. Stop thinking for awhile. Quiet the
chatter in the mind. Just lie there and BE. Just BE. EXIST. That's
the purpose of life. To Exist. You are Existence. It's that simple.
Practices:
(7) You don't exist. You ARE existence. You don't listen to music.
You ARE music. You don't love. You ARE love. There is no perceiver,
or perceived. The perceiver and perceived are One. Affirm this
constantly. Meditate on this. You ARE. Say to yourself "I AM." You
are consciousness. You are nothing BUT consciousness. The mind takes
this consciousness (which is YOU) and makes of it the various forms
and other things perceived as the external world, through past
memories and conditioning and whatever else. I AM. You are THAT.
(8) No boundaries. "You" extend far beyond the skin of the body. You
are simultaneously everywhere at once. You *ARE EVERYTHING*. You
*ARE EVERYTHING*. You *ARE EVERYTHING*. You *ARE EVERYTHING.* You
*ARE EVERYTHING*. You do not exist. You *ARE EXISTENCE*.
(9) I AM. I AM. I AM. I AM. Delve into it. I AM. Pure.
Consciousness. Nothing else is real, all is created from the
substance of Me. I AM the substance of which the universe is
composed. I AM THE UNIVERSE, Universes within Universes. I AM more
than this universe. *I AM THE SINGLE TIMELESS FACT*. I *AM*.
(10) Lather. Rinse. Repeat :-)
Hope this helps somebody on the road,
With Love,
Tim
Fewtch
Cosmic Wanderer
wrote:
>The condition you are indulging in is called neither meditation nor
>enlightenment.
That is Mickey.
>Are you a pedophile, sir, trying to lure the impressionable
>into some sick scheme by a surreptitious route?
I reckon Mickey is a idiot but this is not fair what you wrote you
hope shouting the word pedophile will get hate stired up against him?
Seen it before and it wont work mate.
A friend taught me all people are human. Took me ages to get what he
meant but I got it in the end.
Cosmic Wanderer
Ps I am not a pedophile but I am not into bashing people cause of a
label.
Gordon Murl
Who is making assumptions? It's clear you are a borrowed man speaking
from the warehouse of your own un-liberated mind. Your life tells the
real story. What does it tell you? That you are an individual
unlimited? No, of course not. Don't try to sell me, I'm not buying.
Agreement is not my focus, you may live and think as you desire.
Gordon Murl
Roger Isaacs
hospitals is a good thing.
There is proof in your post Michael that you're deluded. The purpose of a Guru
is to point the way to God for the student. Since in your opinion you ( and
someone else) are the only ones with access to God, this shows that you are
unable to lead anyone else to this same access.
Somebody around here has got to have the golden pin to burst this bubble?
Roger
sh...@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote:
> How Many True Gurus Are There?
>
> According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic
> Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being. I know there are some
> who will disagree with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
> Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
>
> Those who want to go beyond the reach of mind and maya, to become immortal
> and free from the cycle of birth and death, should go to one of the two
> above- mentioned Masters, get initiated, and they will achieve their goal.
> Those who get initiated by one of the two Sat Gurus will reach their True
> Home, known as Sach Khand. It is the place of eternal life, or everlasting
> life, as Christ called it. Only a Master, who has access to that region, can
> take others there.
>
Bart Lidofsky
>How Many True Gurus Are There?
>
>According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic
>Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being. I know there are some
>who will disagree with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
>Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
As you are a Mystic Adept, you already know what I was going to
write. Those who are not can probably figure it out.
--
Bart Lidofsky
Systems Administrator
New York Theosophical Society
ny...@dorsai.org (official)
ba...@sprynet.com (personal)
Bruce Morgen
>jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>
>> Gordon Murl wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > What confusion. Opinions are an expression of an un-liberated mind and
>> > according to you I don't exist, which is very much untrue.
>>
>> You've made an assumption about liberated minds. It is not the mind that
>> is liberated anyway, it is the sense of self as an 'individual *only*' that
>> departs. The individual so blessed by the event of realization *does*
>> maintain a sense of individuality, it's just the idea that the person
>> is *only* the limited individual that goes away.
>>
>> --jodyr.
>
>Who is making assumptions?
Jody's view is quite clear,
the very expression "un-
liberated mind" bespeaks
assumption because it
implies that "mind" can be
"liberated." The word
"mind" itself is just a
communicative convenience,
a mere concept and a very
imprecise one at that.
There is, in fact, no
actual or ongoing "mind" to
"liberate" -- there is only
the activity of thought,
fancying itself an entity
instead of the transient
neural energy it is.
>It's clear you are a borrowed man speaking
>from the warehouse of your own un-liberated mind.
The doctrinaire assumer
emerges from the bog, reeking
of Eau De Gurdjieff --
"borrowed man" is an apt
mirror.
>Your life tells the
>real story. What does it tell you? That you are an individual
>unlimited? No, of course not. Don't try to sell me, I'm not buying.
Runaway inference explodes
from the starting blocks,
assumption upon assumption,
fuguelike....
>Agreement is not my focus,
Understood. Feel free to
state your "focus."
>you may live and think as you desire.
>
True enough, and let there
be gratitude for it!
jo...@ix.netcom.com
Gordon Murl <" 123xyz"@newsguy.com> wrote:
> jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >
> > Gordon Murl wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > What confusion. Opinions are an expression of an un-liberated mind and
> > > according to you I don't exist, which is very much untrue.
> >
> > You've made an assumption about liberated minds. It is not the mind that
> > is liberated anyway, it is the sense of self as an 'individual *only*' that
> > departs. The individual so blessed by the event of realization *does*
> > maintain a sense of individuality, it's just the idea that the person
> > is *only* the limited individual that goes away.
> >
> > --jodyr.
>
> from the warehouse of your own un-liberated mind. Your life tells the
> real story. What does it tell you? That you are an individual
> unlimited? No, of course not. Don't try to sell me, I'm not buying.
I'm not selling anything. I'm *telling* you. Individuality is *always*
limited. Self on the other hand is unlimited and always so. Your
assumption is that a liberated being has no opinions. What I'm telling
you is that a liberated being exists in a body with a mind and that
that mind *does* have opinions.
--jodyr.
Gordon Murl
I bow to your temperate firmness and thoughtful correction. I'm liking
you already, or so goes my opinion.
Gordon Murl
jo...@ix.netcom.com
Hey, thanx Gordon! :)
--jodyr.
Gordon Murl
>
> Gordon Murl <" 123xyz"@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> >jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Gordon Murl wrote:
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> > What confusion. Opinions are an expression of an un-liberated mind and
> >> > according to you I don't exist, which is very much untrue.
> >>
> >> You've made an assumption about liberated minds. It is not the mind that
> >> is liberated anyway, it is the sense of self as an 'individual *only*' that
> >> departs. The individual so blessed by the event of realization *does*
> >> maintain a sense of individuality, it's just the idea that the person
> >> is *only* the limited individual that goes away.
> >>
> >> --jodyr.
> >
> >Who is making assumptions?
>
> the very expression "un-
> liberated mind" bespeaks
> assumption because it
> implies that "mind" can be
> "liberated." The word
> "mind" itself is just a
> communicative convenience,
> a mere concept and a very
> imprecise one at that.
> There is, in fact, no
> actual or ongoing "mind" to
> "liberate" -- there is only
> the activity of thought,
> fancying itself an entity
> instead of the transient
> neural energy it is.
>
> >from the warehouse of your own un-liberated mind.
>
> emerges from the bog, reeking
> of Eau De Gurdjieff --
> "borrowed man" is an apt
> mirror.
>
> >real story. What does it tell you? That you are an individual
> >unlimited? No, of course not. Don't try to sell me, I'm not buying.
>
> from the starting blocks,
> assumption upon assumption,
> fuguelike....
>
>
> state your "focus."
>
> >
> be gratitude for it!
Ha! You are a funny one, cutting me off at the knee's while you pat my
back.
Gordon Murl
Bruce Morgen
I'm ambidextrous.
yogi R. Lund
criticize, because a dirty fault would render your criticism inadequate, inane
in fact. As long as you keep your faith in an MM who is merely deluded you are
full of things to say, be and do about it.
You have read what I have written to some extent: does it manifest uncommon
perception. Let us say, for the sake of argument, that it does so whether or
not you are aware of it: what does perception mean in this regard? You want
there to be "evidence" of sexual misconduct or intent, while I am saying it
is manifest, the actual impetus of his behavior manifest as his behavior.
Evidence is exactly what any common conscious process is in complete control
of, and so your "guru" is perfectly safe here, no matter what he actually is
doing here.
This is the foundation of thought, a perpetual process, so that it thinks it
is what is going to die. You never finish a relationship that is playing with
evidence. And what else is there? Inference? Have you ever heard of reliable
intuition? It is then called "instinct", a feeling for doing the infallible.
So could someone perceptive have instinctual awareness of who someone is,
when it is a thing you would miss no matter how often it is manifest? Or do
you want to say that if you don't get it it isn't there, and thus it is
unfair for anyone to say it is? Is your notion of finding the truth to ask a
jury, to take a vote, or perhaps I Ching, to flip a coin or two? Are you a
hypocrite, seeking spiritual guidance on the one hand, and being everything
anyone could be on the other hand; every persons' equal? It is not an
insulting question; it is the common psychology of the novice, which is what
makes it impossible that the novice finds the nirvana, and possible for all
sorts of things to be sold as enlightenment, the proof he wants that he has
not failed the course even though he has.
In article <36f820fe...@news.pond.com>,
edi...@juno.com wrote:
> yogi R. Lund <r-l...@telia.com> wrote:
>
> >The condition you are indulging in is called neither meditation nor
> > sh...@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote:
> >> How Many True Gurus Are There?
> >>
> >> According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two
Mystic
> >> Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being. I know there are
some
> >> who will disagree with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
> >> Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
> >>
> >> Those who want to go beyond the reach of mind and maya, to become immortal
> >> and free from the cycle of birth and death, should go to one of the two
> >> above- mentioned Masters, get initiated, and they will achieve their goal.
> >> Those who get initiated by one of the two Sat Gurus will reach their True
> >> Home, known as Sach Khand. It is the place of eternal life, or everlasting
> >> life, as Christ called it. Only a Master, who has access to that region,
can
> >> take others there.
> >>
> >> Michael Martin
> >> A Sant Mat Guru
> >>
> >> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> >> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
> >>
> >
> >-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
> __________________________________________________
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
>
> m(_ _)m
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
yogi R. Lund
enjoy your use of ambiguities, if it can be said that you have used them
rather than spilled them.
In article <36fa5a76...@news.bigpond.com>,
cosmic_...@bigpond.com (Cosmic Wanderer) wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:07:21 GMT, yogi R. Lund <r-l...@telia.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The condition you are indulging in is called neither meditation nor
> >enlightenment.
>
> That is Mickey.
>
> >Are you a pedophile, sir, trying to lure the impressionable
> >into some sick scheme by a surreptitious route?
>
> I reckon Mickey is a idiot but this is not fair what you wrote you
> hope shouting the word pedophile will get hate stired up against him?
>
> Seen it before and it wont work mate.
>
> A friend taught me all people are human. Took me ages to get what he
> meant but I got it in the end.
>
> Cosmic Wanderer
>
> Ps I am not a pedophile but I am not into bashing people cause of a
> label.
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Bruce Morgen
>You would much prefer a hygenic sterile fault over a dirty one in someone you
>criticize, because a dirty fault would render your criticism inadequate, inane
>in fact.
I have no preference in
the matter, and a
sexual perversion on
Michaelji's part would
have no effect on the
adequacy of my comments
on what would then
merely become "other"
aspects of his mental
state.
>As long as you keep your faith in an MM who is merely deluded you are
>full of things to say, be and do about it.
>
If I saw the slightest
sign that he was
sexually abhorent I
would address it as I
have his delusions of
"Sainthood."
>You have read what I have written to some extent:
I've read it in its
entirety, we're not
talking "Ulysses" here!
>does it manifest uncommon
>perception.
This is worded like a
question but punctuated
like a declaration.
Which is it?
>Let us say, for the sake of argument, that it does so whether or
>not you are aware of it: what does perception mean in this regard? You want
>there to be "evidence" of sexual misconduct or intent, while I am saying it
>is manifest, the actual impetus of his behavior manifest as his behavior.
>Evidence is exactly what any common conscious process is in complete control
>of, and so your "guru" is perfectly safe here, no matter what he actually is
>doing here.
>
I've never read a paragraph
so impeccable in grammar
and so utterly muddled in
thrust. I have no human
"guru" and have been quite
clear about that for years.
>This is the foundation of thought, a perpetual process, so that it thinks it
>is what is going to die. You never finish a relationship that is playing with
>evidence. And what else is there? Inference? Have you ever heard of reliable
>intuition? It is then called "instinct", a feeling for doing the infallible.
>So could someone perceptive have instinctual awareness of who someone is,
>when it is a thing you would miss no matter how often it is manifest? Or do
>you want to say that if you don't get it it isn't there, and thus it is
>unfair for anyone to say it is? Is your notion of finding the truth to ask a
>jury, to take a vote, or perhaps I Ching, to flip a coin or two? Are you a
>hypocrite, seeking spiritual guidance on the one hand, and being everything
>anyone could be on the other hand; every persons' equal? It is not an
>insulting question; it is the common psychology of the novice, which is what
>makes it impossible that the novice finds the nirvana, and possible for all
>sorts of things to be sold as enlightenment, the proof he wants that he has
>not failed the course even though he has.
>
Once again what you are
saying is entirely obscured
by perfectly formed but
completely inept prose. I
stand by my observation of
"runaway inference," you
may glorify it as "reliable
inuition," "instinct," or
whatever else you please.
You have also inferred that
there is "seeking for
spiritual guidance" and/or
some notion of "being
everything anyone could be."
Sir, you create a quasi-
articulate "word salad" (as
you did at *great* and
repetitious length on the
Listening-l mailing list a
few weeks ago) -- you may
be the purest embodiment of
the divine on the planet,
but you are such a poor
communicator nobody will
ever be able to find out.
There is very little
difference between your
thrust and Michael Martin's
-- he says "You can trust
me, I am the Sat Guru," you
say "You can trust me, I
can ascertain facts via my
reliable intuition." In a
private e-mail, you voiced
the idea that I was some
kind of secret Usenet
moderator or censor, was
this also an example of
your "reliable intuition?"
Deviant Col
Michael Martin
"Deviant Col" <c...@tadley.u-net.com> wrote:
>
> Bruce Morgen wrote in message <36f9288e...@news.pond.com>...
> >Gordon Murl <" 123xyz"@newsguy.com> wrote:
> >
> >>jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Gordon Murl wrote:
> >>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>> > What confusion. Opinions are an expression of an un-liberated mind
Opinions are also expressed by liberated minds. Saints also will not
hesitate to express their opinions to the true seekers, and their minds are
certainly liberated. In order to be a Saint, one has to go beyond mind and
matter, and become "one," with the Supreme Being.
> and
> >>> > according to you I don't exist, which is very much untrue.
As seen from the highest region, nothing exists but the Creator. It depends
upon our point of view.
> >>>
> >>> You've made an assumption about liberated minds. It is not the mind
> that
> >>> is liberated anyway,
Mind can be "liberated," from its love of material objects, sensual
pleasures, people, places, and things. Mind is in love with the senses and
out of habit is always running to them. Meditation, as taught by the Saints,
will train the mind to go back to its source, which is none other than the
Shabd, Nam, or Holy Spirit. This is how mind can be "liberated," from its
negative tendencies. This is what makes Saints different from ordinary human
beings. Their mind is under their control. For ordinary human beings, the
situation is reversed. For them, mind is always running to the senses and
the phenomenal world. For Saints, mind is always wanting to withdraw to the
third eye and contact the Shabd, Nam, or Holy Spirit. Once mind learns the
difference between real pleasure and illusory pleasure, then it comes under
our control, but this stage will only be reached when we become a disciple of
a True Master.
it is the sense of self as an 'individual *only*'
> that
> >>> departs. The individual so blessed by the event of realization *does*
> >>> maintain a sense of individuality, it's just the idea that the person
> >>> is *only* the limited individual that goes away.
Yes, but we need a True Master to take us to that level of consciousness. We
need to experience it. We can't just go to that level without a Master. Our
own ego will impede our progress. We must practice Sat Guru Bhakti, if we
want to get rid of our own ego.
> >>>
> >>> --jodyr.
> >>
> >>Who is making assumptions?
> >
> >Jody's view is quite clear,
> >the very expression "un-
> >liberated mind" bespeaks
> >assumption because it
> >implies that "mind" can be
> >"liberated."
Mind can be liberated, as I wrote above. That is why Saints are free and
ordinary human beings are not.
The word
> >"mind" itself is just a
> >communicative convenience,
> >a mere concept and a very
> >imprecise one at that.
It's true that it is difficult for us to understand what mind is. We have
three minds, the Physical Mind, called "Pindi Mind," because it is associated
with Pinda, or this physical world. We also have the Astral Mind, called
"Andi Mind," because it is associated with Anda, or the Astral World. Last,
but not least, we have the Causal Mind, called "Brahmandi Mind," because it
is associated with Brahmanda, or the Causal World. It is also called
Universal Mind.
Actually, Mind is one, but I have pointed out certain distinctions above to
clarify what the mind is in all its aspects. We really need to go beyond the
Mind to understand what it is.
> >There is, in fact, no
> >actual or ongoing "mind" to
> >"liberate" -- there is only
> >the activity of thought,
Thought is an activity of mind. Thought keeps mind a prisoner of matter, and
the other items which I mentioned above.
> >fancying itself an entity
> >instead of the transient
> >neural energy it is.
Saints, Mystics, and Mahatmas have tried to explain to us that mind has a
source, and it will never really be content, unless it can go back to its
source. The source of the mind is the Shabd, Nam, or Holy Spirit. It is the
pure shabd, which is found beyond mind and matter. That is where our mind
needs to go to be content and under control.
> >
> >>It's clear you are a borrowed man speaking
> >>from the warehouse of your own un-liberated mind.
I agree, that one who has a liberated mind, would not be making such
statements.
> >
> >The doctrinaire assumer
> >emerges from the bog, reeking
> >of Eau De Gurdjieff --
> >"borrowed man" is an apt
> >mirror.
"Assuming," is not the issue, here. What has been written is the issue. He
has expressed his opinion of what has been written, and so have I.
> >
> >>Your life tells the
> >>real story. What does it tell you? That you are an individual
> >>unlimited? No, of course not. Don't try to sell me, I'm not buying.
> >
> >Runaway inference explodes
> >from the starting blocks,
> >assumption upon assumption,
> >fuguelike....
As for me, I'm not making any inferences or assumptions. I'm just commenting
on the comments about the mind. I know something about the mind, as I have
34 years experience with meditation.
> >
> >>Agreement is not my focus,
> >
> >Understood. Feel free to
> >state your "focus."
> >
> >>you may live and think as you desire.
> >>
> >True enough, and let there
> >be gratitude for it!
Actually, we are all like puppets. Whatever the Supreme Being desires will
come to pass.
Michael Martin
A Sant Mat Guru
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> >http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
> >
> > m(_ _)m
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Michael Martin
A quote by Saint Garibdas:
"From the bondage of chaurasi,
Hath the Guru secured my release.
Whoso hath Nam manifested within
His cycle of birth and rebirth doth cease."
End
Chaurasi is transmigration of the soul. It is also called the whirlpool of
reincarnations. There are 8,400,000 species in which the soul could find
itself. Only with the help of a True Master can we escape from it. The soul
has to go beyond mind and matter in order to get free. Only a True Master
can take us to that plane of pure spirituality beyond the mind and all its
negative influences.
Nam, Shabd, or Holy Spirit, as Christ called it, is the power into which
followers of True Masters merge, within themselves, by meditation. This power
is the real form of the Master, and is what will take us beyond the mind and
back to our True Home.
Michael Martin
Cosmic Wanderer
Many.
Not the idiot Mickey & his BS missionary crapola but.
>Michael Martin (The idiot with an ego da size of ..... well it is big, real big)
Cosmic Wanderer
sh...@my-dejanews.com
There could be many technically, as the Lord is omnipotent, but based on
history, the world is lucky to have one or two True Gurus teaching
spirituality at the same time.
>
> Not the idiot Mickey & his BS missionary crapola but.
Well, this is Usenet, and I'm used to people expressing their opinions. It's
not my mission to please everyone. Christ told his disciples, "They don't
like me, and they're not going to like you, either." He was referring to the
opposition. Saints are always faced with opposition.
>
> >Michael Martin (The idiot with an ego da size of ..... well it is big, real big)
Cosmic Wanderer is again expressing his opinion. The readers are welcome to
side with him or me. Whatever is God's will is fine with me.
I'm just trying to do a charitable, altruistic, spiritual work. There is no
personal gain in it for me at all. I don't know how he can justify his claim
that I have a big ego. It would be hard even to get a "free," haircut these
days, and I'm offerring unlimited spiritual wealth for free. All the
disciple has to do is follow my instructions, and he will achieve everything.
>
> Cosmic Wanderer
Michael Martin
A Sant Mat Guru
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Tim Harris
sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> All the disciple has to do is follow my instructions, and he will achieve everything.
>
> Michael Martin
> A Sant Mat Guru
>
This may be so Michael Martin however, all I see you post are defences for your
position and yourself or offences to attack others that are placed against you... by
your own ego. I see no instruction here. I suspect that it is not that no one believes
you. It is that you are falling short on instruction for, is not the ego the great
defender? Why do you defend if it is Gods will?.... you see?
Regards.
Tim Harris
--
For more information on the
CASUAL ENLIGHTENMENT METHOD please visit:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html
ICQ # 34365156
Cosmic Wanderer
>In article <371fb8a8...@news.bigpond.com>,
> cosmic_...@bigpond.com (Cosmic Wanderer) wrote:
>> >Re: How Many True Gurus Are There?
>>
>> Many.
>
>There could be many technically, as the Lord is omnipotent, but based on
>history, the world is lucky to have one or two True Gurus teaching
>spirituality at the same time.
Whatever but your not it. Half wits dont count.
>> Not the idiot Mickey & his BS missionary crapola but.
>
>Well, this is Usenet, and I'm used to people expressing their opinions. It's
>not my mission to please everyone.
You couldnt please your own dog if you tried.
>Christ told his disciples, "They don't
>like me, and they're not going to like you, either." He was referring to the
>opposition. Saints are always faced with opposition.
God are you retarded or what? Say something dumb ofcourse you go down,
say it it in the wrong group an your lucky to stay alive.
As if you give a shit what christ reckons. You choose what you want to
hear. More BS from your end.
>> >Michael Martin (The idiot with an ego da size of ..... well it is big, real big)
>
>Cosmic Wanderer is again expressing his opinion. The readers are welcome to
>side with him or me. Whatever is God's will is fine with me.
Not opinion fact you see I got this enlightemnet crap too and it tells
me your full of it.
>I'm just trying to do a charitable, altruistic, spiritual work.
BS your a spammer looking for suckers to kiss your feet.
>There is no
>personal gain in it for me at all.
Yeah an pigs fly too.
>I don't know how he can justify his claim
>that I have a big ego. It would be hard even to get a "free," haircut these
>days, and I'm offerring unlimited spiritual wealth for free. All the
>disciple has to do is follow my instructions, and he will achieve everything.
How about you follow my instruction and kiss my arse :) and you will
achieve everything that Walt wants for you.
>Michael Martin a spamming wanker from way back.
CW.
sh...@my-dejanews.com
har...@cyberlink.bc.ca wrote:
>
>
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > All the disciple has to do is follow my instructions, and he will achieve
everything.
> >
> > A Sant Mat Guru
> >
>
your
> position and yourself or offences to attack others that are placed against
you... by
> your own ego.
I have been on the defensive many times, and this is no different than it has
been in instances throughout history. I don't remember "attacking," anybody,
unless I was just trying to teach something.
I see no instruction here.
Tim, my postings have been full of instructions.
I suspect that it is not that no one
believes
> you. It is that you are falling short on instruction for, is not the ego the
great
> defender?
Following that line of thought, then Christ, John the Baptist, St. Peter,
Kabir, Nanak, Socrates, Plato, etc., etc.., had ego! Is that what you think?
Saints don't have ego. They are the epitome of altruism, and selfless
service. Their whole life is a sacrifice for us. Christ said, "Foxes have
holes, birds have nests, but the son of Man hath no place to lay his head."
Isn't that a shame, that Saints have to suffer such indignation, because of
the ignorance of humanity?
Why do you defend if it is Gods will?.... you see?
My defense is also God's will, just as it was God's will for all the other
Saints from history. Everything is God's will.
>
> Regards.
Regards, BTW I will reply to you as soon as I can find the time.
>
> Tim Harris
Michael Martin
A Sant Mat Guru
>
> --
> For more information on the
> CASUAL ENLIGHTENMENT METHOD please visit:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html
> ICQ # 34365156
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
sh...@my-dejanews.com
cosmic_...@bigpond.com (Cosmic Wanderer) wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:39:20 GMT, sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >In article <371fb8a8...@news.bigpond.com>,
> > cosmic_...@bigpond.com (Cosmic Wanderer) wrote:
> >> >Re: How Many True Gurus Are There?
> >>
> >> Many.
> >
> >There could be many technically, as the Lord is omnipotent, but based on
> >history, the world is lucky to have one or two True Gurus teaching
> >spirituality at the same time.
>
> Whatever but your not it. Half wits dont count.
Thanks for your opinion.
>
> >> Not the idiot Mickey & his BS missionary crapola but.
> >
> >Well, this is Usenet, and I'm used to people expressing their opinions. It's
> >not my mission to please everyone.
>
> You couldnt please your own dog if you tried.
Thanks again for your opinion.
>
> >Christ told his disciples, "They don't
> >like me, and they're not going to like you, either." He was referring to the
> >opposition. Saints are always faced with opposition.
>
> God are you retarded or what? Say something dumb ofcourse you go down,
> say it it in the wrong group an your lucky to stay alive.
I must be dumb, because I can't make much sense out of this question and
statement.
>
> As if you give a shit what christ reckons. You choose what you want to
> hear. More BS from your end.
Okay, then you have no faith in me. Thanks anyway.
>
> >> >Michael Martin (The idiot with an ego da size of ..... well it is big,
real big)
> >
> >Cosmic Wanderer is again expressing his opinion. The readers are welcome to
> >side with him or me. Whatever is God's will is fine with me.
>
> Not opinion fact you see I got this enlightemnet crap too and it tells
> me your full of it.
Wonderful!
>
> >I'm just trying to do a charitable, altruistic, spiritual work.
>
> BS your a spammer looking for suckers to kiss your feet.
Not hardly!
>
> >There is no
> >personal gain in it for me at all.
>
> Yeah an pigs fly too.
Saints are always the greatest givers, and not the receivers.
>
> >I don't know how he can justify his claim
> >that I have a big ego. It would be hard even to get a "free," haircut
these
> >days, and I'm offerring unlimited spiritual wealth for free. All the
> >disciple has to do is follow my instructions, and he will achieve everything.
>
> How about you follow my instruction and kiss my arse :) and you will
> achieve everything that Walt wants for you.
I wouldn't want to be "one," with you. Sorry!
>
> >Michael Martin a spamming wanker from way back.
Maybe someday CW will get tired of this.
>
> CW.
Michael Martin
A Saint Very Used To Slander
Tim Harris
sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Everything is God's will.
> >
>
Then it needs no defence.... offer none.
Regards.
Tim Harris
Klaus Schilling
There's exactly one true guru.
Klaus Schilling
sh...@my-dejanews.com
Klaus, you might be referring to the Almighty, but how about here on earth?
There can certainly be more than one True Guru on earth.
>
> Klaus Schilling
BTW, somebody is posting using the name "Shabd." So far, I think I can agree
with what he has written, but who knows what he (she) might write in the
future?
>
Michael Martin
A Sant Mat Guru
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Michael Turner
including Gurinder Singh, Rajinder Singh, Suma Ching Hai and Darwin Gross,
to name a few. I did some biographical sketches on the current Shabda
teachers with a fairly high profile a while back. I'll probably post them
in the near future to help offer more information on this somewhat
controversial subject.
Peace and Unity,
Gregory Michael Turner
Spiritual Freedom Satsang
http://home.att.net/~h.kight/index.htm
sh...@my-dejanews.com
"Michael Turner" <m.tu...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> There are several good, solid Light and Sound teachers by my reckoning,
> including Gurinder Singh, Rajinder Singh, Suma Ching Hai and Darwin Gross,
> to name a few. I did some biographical sketches on the current Shabda
> teachers with a fairly high profile a while back. I'll probably post them
> in the near future to help offer more information on this somewhat
> controversial subject.
When it comes to selecting a teacher of light and sound, naturally for most
of us it will come down to a decision based on faith. Mr. Turner has faith
in the above-mentioned persons, but that is his opinion. Each person must
make his own decision, based on the Mystic Teachings given by each Guru, and
based on certain characteristics of them.
There is no such thing as a "monopoly," on spirituality. Sometimes we might
think, that because a line of Masters has been at a certain place for a long
time, that it must be the only authentic line of Masters. This is not true.
Lines always have a beginning, and an end, and sometimes the line will shift
from one place to another. A True Master might appear anywhere in the world
and start a "new," line of Masters. It has happened before and it will
happen again.
I will write below what Walt Whitman had to write about "monopolies," in his
preface to "Leaves of Grass."
He wrote:
"The American Bards shall be marked for generosity and affection, and for
encouraging competitors ...They shall be Kosmos...without monopoly or
secrecy...glad to pass any thing to any one...hungry for equals night and
day."
End
I encourage competitors, and honestly, I will say that Mr. Turner does, too,
based on what he has written above, although I noticed he did not mention me
by name.
In regards to monopoly or secrecy, I don't want to cast aspersions on any
Satsang, but I will say that I think this attitude could be improved by
some. Some of us have become very closed-minded with regards to the
existence of a Master outside of a particular line. Even if a line has
millions of active followers, that does not mean that its headquarters, or
its Sat Guru, is the only authentic one in the world. The Almighty has the
power to manifest himself in anyone who has been initiated by a True Master.
I think every body has the right to ponder this question, "Is my Sat Guru, or
Satsang, without monopoly or secrecy...glad to pass any thing to any
one...hungry for equals night and day?"
>
> Peace and Unity,
>
> Gregory Michael Turner
> Spiritual Freedom Satsang
> http://home.att.net/~h.kight/index.htm
More Peace and Unity,
Michael Martin
A Western World Mystic
Cosmic Wanderer
>> Whatever but your not it. Half wits dont count.
>
>Thanks for your opinion.
No problemo always happy to help people like you out.
>> You couldnt please your own dog if you tried.
>
>Thanks again for your opinion.
No problemo the martyr game does not work with me.
>> God are you retarded or what? Say something dumb ofcourse you go down,
>> say it it in the wrong group an your lucky to stay alive.
>
>I must be dumb, because I can't make much sense out of this question and
>statement.
You got it. For knowing everything you come up real short in the
understanding department.
>Okay, then you have no faith in me. Thanks anyway.
You got that right. No faith in idiot wan-a- bees.
>> BS your a spammer looking for suckers to kiss your feet.
>
>Not hardly!
Huh.
>I wouldn't want to be "one," with you. Sorry!
Good.
>> >Michael Martin a spamming wanker from way back.
>
>Maybe someday CW will get tired of this.
Maybe Mickey will grow up and stop his mission trolling.
>Michael Martin A Saint Very Used To wanking on public forums
Bout sums it up regarding Mickey.
CW.
Roger Isaacs
> There are several good, solid Light and Sound teachers by my reckoning,
> including Gurinder Singh, Rajinder Singh, Suma Ching Hai and Darwin Gross,
> to name a few. I did some biographical sketches on the current Shabda
> teachers with a fairly high profile a while back. I'll probably post them
> in the near future to help offer more information on this somewhat
> controversial subject.
>
>
> Gregory Michael Turner
> Spiritual Freedom Satsang
> http://home.att.net/~h.kight/index.htm
Franklin Merrell-Wolff in his remarkable book "Experience and Philosophy : A
Personal Record of Transformation and a Discussion of Transcendental
Consciousness" describes higher consciousness using the words "light and
sound" but he doesn't limit his description to just these terms.
Merrell-Wolff was a professor of mathematics at Stanford after being educated
at Harvard ( I think this is correct ) and his comments shine with the full
rigor & clarity that one would expect from a person with such a background.
He seems to have used a more intellectual approach to meditation, a entirely
different approach than Shabda. I think his comments point both to the
validity of techniques using light and sound, and also to the need for
honoring the other diverse approaches to Spirit.
May controversy transform into Peace & Unity,
Roger
www.newu.org
sh...@my-dejanews.com
Roger Isaacs <RIs...@cqg.com> wrote:
> "Michael Turner" <m.tu...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > There are several good, solid Light and Sound teachers by my reckoning,
> > including Gurinder Singh, Rajinder Singh, Suma Ching Hai and Darwin Gross,
> > to name a few. I did some biographical sketches on the current Shabda
> > teachers with a fairly high profile a while back. I'll probably post them
> > in the near future to help offer more information on this somewhat
> > controversial subject.
> >
> > Peace and Unity,
> >
> > Gregory Michael Turner
> > Spiritual Freedom Satsang
> > http://home.att.net/~h.kight/index.htm
>
> Franklin Merrell-Wolff in his remarkable book "Experience and Philosophy : A
> Personal Record of Transformation and a Discussion of Transcendental
> Consciousness" describes higher consciousness using the words "light and
> sound" but he doesn't limit his description to just these terms.
> Merrell-Wolff was a professor of mathematics at Stanford after being educated
> at Harvard ( I think this is correct ) and his comments shine with the full
> rigor & clarity that one would expect from a person with such a background.
>
> He seems to have used a more intellectual approach to meditation, a entirely
> different approach than Shabda.
We can satisfy our intellect as much as we can, but then we will have to
proceed with faith. The Shabda will take us to the eighth stage. Mind will
be left behind in the second stage. Intellect is just an aspect of the mind.
I think his comments point both to the
> validity of techniques using light and sound, and also to the need for
> honoring the other diverse approaches to Spirit.
To approach the Supreme Spirit, or the Almighty, the path of Shabd, Nam, or
Holy Spirit, is the only way.
>
> May controversy transform into Peace & Unity,
Those who follow the path of Shabd will be united with the Creator.
>
> Roger
> www.newu.org
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
jo...@ix.netcom.com
sh...@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote:
[snip]
> To approach the Supreme Spirit, or the Almighty, the path of Shabd, Nam, or
> Holy Spirit, is the only way.
I realize that the above is only your opinion, and what I'm about to express
is only my opinion, but what you've stated above is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T!
[snip]
:)
love--jodyr.
Roger Isaacs
You imply that faith is not an aspect of mind. If faith does not occur in the
mind then where does it occur?
> I think his comments point both to the
> > validity of techniques using light and sound, and also to the need for
> > honoring the other diverse approaches to Spirit.
>
> To approach the Supreme Spirit, or the Almighty, the path of Shabd, Nam, or
> Holy Spirit, is the only way.
> >
> > May controversy transform into Peace & Unity,
>
> Those who follow the path of Shabd will be united with the Creator.
> >
> > Roger
> > www.newu.org
>
> Michael Martin
> A Western Mystic
> Michael Martin wrote at the start of this thread:
>According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic
>Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being.
Michael Martin I think your argument is logically unsound.
You say Shabd is the only path, those who follow it will be united with the
creator, and yet you say only two Mystic Adepts have access to the Supreme
Being.
If, as you say, there are only 2 adepts, then these adepts have been unable
to lead ANY students to the Supreme Being. If people who follow your version
of Shabd "will be united with Creator", then why hasn't this happened? Why
are there only 2 adepts?
Roger
www.newu.org
sh...@my-dejanews.com
Faith in the Master will take us to the Astral Plane, and there, naturally,
we will meet the Radiant Form of our True Master. Then, of course, if he is
standing in front of us and conversing with us, our faith will become
conviction.
Faith is an aspect of mind. Faith takes us to the first stage, but mind goes
up to the top of the second stage. Our love for the Radiant Form of the
Master will help us to merge in the Shabd form of the Master. It is the
Shabd, which will take us beyond the second stage, and all the way to the
eighth stage, where we will meet that Perfect Being.
>
> > I think his comments point both to the
> > > validity of techniques using light and sound, and also to the need for
> > > honoring the other diverse approaches to Spirit.
> >
> > To approach the Supreme Spirit, or the Almighty, the path of Shabd, Nam, or
> > Holy Spirit, is the only way.
> > >
> > > May controversy transform into Peace & Unity,
> >
> > Those who follow the path of Shabd will be united with the Creator.
> > >
> > > Roger
> > > www.newu.org
> >
> > Michael Martin
> > A Western Mystic
>
> > Michael Martin wrote at the start of this thread:
> >According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic
> >Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being.
>
> Michael Martin I think your argument is logically unsound.
Who is arguing? I'm simply saying that I have pretty much experience with
meditation.
>
> You say Shabd is the only path, those who follow it will be united with the
> creator, and yet you say only two Mystic Adepts have access to the Supreme
> Being.
No, I have been through this already with Bruce Morgen. I'm saying that I
believe there are two Sat Gurus capable of taking souls to the Supreme Being.
One can be a Mystic Adept, and not be a Sat Guru. If a Mystic Adept accepts
disciples then he becomes a Sat Guru. There might be any number of Mystic
Adepts, and I never put a figure on them.
>
> If, as you say, there are only 2 adepts, then these adepts have been unable
> to lead ANY students to the Supreme Being.
I hope I explained it more clearly above. There could be many with such
access.
If people who follow your version
> of Shabd "will be united with Creator", then why hasn't this happened? Why
> are there only 2 adepts?
Again, I have explained it already. Let me add this. We might not reach the
Supreme Being in this life. It might take a few lifetimes, and also, we
might be placed by the Master in some intermediate stage, such as the Astral
Plane, Causal Plane, etc.. We can also practice meditation in those stages
and proceed to our destination, the Supreme Being.
The True Master never leaves his disciples, and he will take them to their
True Home one day, and make them one with him, and consequently, one with the
Supreme Being.
Let me know if I have explained it sufficiently well.
>
> Roger
> www.newu.org
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
Roger Isaacs
> Let me know if I have explained it sufficiently well.
Well, I'm still confused Michael:
> Michael Martin wrote: ( edited to gather quotes together )
> To approach the Supreme Spirit, or the Almighty, the path of Shabd, Nam, or
> Holy Spirit, is the only way.
> According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two Mystic
> Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being.
> I'm saying that I
> believe there are two Sat Gurus capable of taking souls to the Supreme Being.
> One can be a Mystic Adept, and not be a Sat Guru. If a Mystic Adept accepts
> disciples then he becomes a Sat Guru. There might be any number of Mystic
> Adepts, and I never put a figure on them.
> We might not reach the
> Supreme Being in this life. It might take a few lifetimes, and also, we
> might be placed by the Master in some intermediate stage, such as the Astral
> Plane, Causal Plane, etc.. We can also practice meditation in those stages
> and proceed to our destination, the Supreme Being.
>
> The True Master never leaves his disciples, and he will take them to their
> True Home one day, and make them one with him, and consequently, one with the
> Supreme Being.
Ok: So you say there's only one path to the supreme being, there are only 2
gurus capable of taking souls to the supreme being, and these gurus follow the
students around forever through different lives to make sure they succeed.
Question #1: You say you have no idea how many mystic adepts there are. Yet
there are only two gurus capable of producing adepts ( one being yourself )
and they have perfect accounting of the students even through many lifetimes.
How is it that you do not know how many graduates there are if you have
perfect accounting of all the students? Surely this can be resolved through
a phone call to the other guru and an exchange of records?
I'm imagining Paduka State University trying to collect past due student loans
from prior incarnations.
Question #2: You say there are exactly 2 gurus. You say you have no idea how
many mystic adepts there are. And yet a mystic adept only needs to accept
disciples to be promoted to a guru. This seems inconsistent to me: if you have
no idea how many mystic adepts there are, how would you know if one or many
decided to accept students and become gurus?
If you have no idea how many adepts there are, and an adept can become a guru
at any time, then, seems to me like you have absolutely no idea how many gurus
there really are!
Roger
www.newu.org
Tim Harris
has proven one thing it is that they 'always' get it wrong.... lol...
Regards.
Tim Harris
sh...@my-dejanews.com
Roger Isaacs <RIs...@cqg.com> wrote:
> sh...@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote:
> > Let me know if I have explained it sufficiently well.
>
>
> > Michael Martin wrote: ( edited to gather quotes together )
> > Holy Spirit, is the only way.
>
Mystic
> > Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being.
>
> > believe there are two Sat Gurus capable of taking souls to the Supreme
Being.
> > One can be a Mystic Adept, and not be a Sat Guru. If a Mystic Adept
accepts
> > disciples then he becomes a Sat Guru. There might be any number of Mystic
> > Adepts, and I never put a figure on them.
>
> > Supreme Being in this life. It might take a few lifetimes, and also, we
> > might be placed by the Master in some intermediate stage, such as the Astral
> > Plane, Causal Plane, etc.. We can also practice meditation in those stages
> > and proceed to our destination, the Supreme Being.
> >
> > The True Master never leaves his disciples, and he will take them to their
> > True Home one day, and make them one with him, and consequently, one with
the
> > Supreme Being.
>
> gurus capable of taking souls to the supreme being, and these gurus follow the
> students around forever through different lives to make sure they succeed.
I think we agree now, but I would write it like this, the Master leads the
students toward the Creator until they succeed. The Master is the Leader not
the follower.
>
> Question #1: You say you have no idea how many mystic adepts there are. Yet
> there are only two gurus capable of producing adepts ( one being yourself )
> and they have perfect accounting of the students even through many lifetimes.
> How is it that you do not know how many graduates there are if you have
> perfect accounting of all the students?
Roger, you can sure come up with some questions. That's all right, I don't
mind. The Master is omniscient, as I've written many times before, but he
would get that knowledge by means of meditation, and he could know exactly
how many mystic adepts there are for each Guru. A Master always knows what
he needs to know. If there is something he needs to know the Supreme Being
will just project that information before him by means of the Shabd, Nam, or
Holy Spirit.
Another item, Roger, what the Master needs to know, and what we need to know,
are often two different categories.
Surely this can be resolved through
> a phone call to the other guru and an exchange of records?
It is known by meditation. Every Master is "one," with the Holy Spirit, and
therefore omniscient.
>
> I'm imagining Paduka State University trying to collect past due student loans
> from prior incarnations.
The Master knows all about past karmas. Every penny, every centavo, must be
paid one way or the other, before we are allowed to go beyond the reach of
karma. The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means of Surat
Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
>
> Question #2: You say there are exactly 2 gurus. You say you have no idea how
> many mystic adepts there are.
Roger, I know how many there are, but that is for me to know, and for anyone
else who reaches the ultimate stage of spirituality. It is not necessarily
for everyone to know. Masters are one, and therefore, they are aware of each
other.
And yet a mystic adept only needs to accept
> disciples to be promoted to a guru.
This is a vast oversimplification, Roger. The Mystic Adept needs to have
access to the ultimate stage, and whether he accepts, or rejects, disciples
has no bearing on his stature. He is not promoted or demoted by accepting or
rejecting disciples. He would be one with the Supreme Being, regardless of
what he does.
This seems inconsistent to me: if you have
> no idea how many mystic adepts there are,
I do know.
how would you know if one or many
> decided to accept students and become gurus?
How does a Master know anything? He knows anything by meditation. He takes
his consciousness to the level of omniscience and accesses all knowledge.
>
> If you have no idea how many adepts there are,
I do know.
and an adept can become a guru
> at any time, then, seems to me like you have absolutely no idea how many gurus
> there really are!
Roger, you are guessing at the extent of my knowledge. I have access to the
level of consciousness where anything can be known. I know how many Sat
Gurus, and Mystic Adepts, there are, but I don't intend on sharing this
knowledge.
Fewtch
You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die. It is a
forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life, so
they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
Tim
-----
Visit The Core of the WWW at:
http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html
Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.
Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:
http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html
Tim Harris
Regards.
Tim Harris
Fewtch wrote:
--
Bruce Morgen
>
>You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die. It is a
>forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life, so
>they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
>
>This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
>negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
>
Usenet is the world.
You are the world.
You pray for personal extinction.
You will eventually get it.
It is your dream of
"total realization."
It is the ego obliterated,
extinguished once and for all.
It is death,
gull...@netxn.com
>
>You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die. It is a
>forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life, so
>they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
>
>This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
>negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
>
>Tim
>
>-----
>Visit The Core of the WWW at:
>http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html
>Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.
>
>Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:
>http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html
Although I don't pray for it's demise, I think you've hit it precisely
on the mark. If anyone lurks in this newsgroup for just a short
while, they'll realize how astute your observation is. Just watch
the petting/stroking phenomena of the "old-timers" posting here. I'd
be willing to bet that, just a mention of one another, recognition,
even if a slight, suffices to make their day. It must add a little
significance to their hollow day and a bit of hope and warmth at
bedtime, "Glen came back at me today honey". And their trailing
titles/tags, that's what always amazed me. "Lifetime Member of the
Fellowship of blah, blah... Like school boys wearing badges. God
bless their lonely souls.
R.C.
Tim Harris
sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means of Surat
> Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
> >
>
In other words, the Master shows you how to 'wish' the karma away. The True Guru
says...'work it off'... if you have made many lives by creating obvious and subtle
mental and physical abuses of mankind, then it is time to start serving mankind
before yourself. Sort of like when Jesus said "Go and sin no more."
What is the difference you ask?... One 'way' has a price tag... is not Truth free?
Regards.
Tim Harris
Captain Red Beard
Fewtch <few...@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:372bff2f...@news.eskimo.com...
>
> You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die. It is a
> forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life, so
> they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
>
> This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
> negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
>
> Tim
So, you're heavily into this self petting thing. Go, boy, go. You'll get
there. Just clean up after yourself.
Joseph G. Mitzen
> This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
> negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
>
Ken Starr?
Glen Quarnstrom
>You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die. It is a
>forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life, so
>they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
It took you all this time to figure THAT out? You're not too bright,
are you?
>This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
>negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
You pitiful wretch, you're so empty of intellect, emotion, and reason
that you have mistaken this little backwash of the net to be real,
rather than a place to blow off steam, amuse oneself, meet "interesting"
people, and just generally waste a lot of time.
Jayzus, I thought _I_ was bad, but I'm far more connected to reality
than you are. Now pull yourself together and LEAVE, as you promised to
do weeks ago. Sitting around here looking for attention by whining
about people looking for attention is just too, TOO pathetic, even for a
simpleton like you.
(Was that enough petting for you?)
--
gl...@cyberhighway.net
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~glenq/
Proud to be the Official #1 Asshole of AFA-B!
...hangin' in #Geezer when I'm on IRC.
sh...@my-dejanews.com
gull...@netxn.com wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:08:39 GMT, few...@eskimo.com (Fewtch) wrote:
>
> >
> >You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die.
Do you think God will do away with it, because you're praying for that?
IMHO, God knows best, what to do with it, and his "will," will prevail,
regardless whether we pray about it or not. God was the one who brought it
into existence, and now you are praying for him to can it. Do you think you
are more knowledgeable than God?
It is a
> >forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life,
I think it is a forum for everybody, rich and poor, popular and unpopular.
so
> >they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
Why do you post here? You seem to be quick to pass judgement on others. Some
people are posting out of true altruism, charity, and benevolence, for their
brothers and sisters. Don't forget them.
> >
> >This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
> >negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
If we analyze, perhaps just about everything we do in life involves that, so
what makes Usenet any different? It is only "real," meditation, when we are
humble before the Almighty, that we are not involved in ego.
> >
> >Tim
> >
> >-----
> >Visit The Core of the WWW at:
> >http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html
> >Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.
> >
> >Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:
> >http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html
> Although I don't pray for it's demise, I think you've hit it precisely
> on the mark. If anyone lurks in this newsgroup for just a short
> while, they'll realize how astute your observation is.
This effort to put everybody in the same category is ridiculous. It is not
giving the correct analysis of Usenet at all.
Just watch
> the petting/stroking phenomena of the "old-timers" posting here. I'd
> be willing to bet that, just a mention of one another, recognition,
> even if a slight, suffices to make their day.
What about you? Don't you appreciate a little love from your brothers and
sisters, or are you different from everybody else?
It must add a little
> significance to their hollow day and a bit of hope and warmth at
> bedtime, "Glen came back at me today honey". And their trailing
> titles/tags, that's what always amazed me. "Lifetime Member of the
> Fellowship of blah, blah... Like school boys wearing badges. God
> bless their lonely souls.
What about you? You are not lonely? You have achieved oneness with God?
You don't need any love or fellowship from anybody?
I think those who are so quick to criticize others ought to write about
themselves and their own shortcomings. That would give a better balance to
the posting. Don't you agree?
> R.C.
DrPostman
>
>You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die. It is a
>forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life, so
>they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
>
>This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
>negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
>
>Tim
Thanks for playing, please come again.
--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
High Counselor of the New Usenet Order
Addicted to Art Bell? http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1282
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, Lifetime member of the
Art Bell Internet Fan Club, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: jamiemps(at)mindspring.com
"Nothing compares to the complicated futility of ignorance."
- Kurt Vonnegut's "Hocus Pocus"
DrPostman
>How 'bout this: you let it die FOR YOU, and all of us, who use it for
>tech-support (giving and getting), exchanging art, keeping in touch with
>birds-of-a-feather, trading impressions and ideas and, occasionally, letting
>off steam, go ahead and enjoy this unique means of community.
Not to mention all the free porno on the binary groups - can't
forget about those.
DrPostman
>
>You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die.
See Number 12:
-----begin copy message
From: gar...@ix.netcom.com(Gary Ensminger)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery,alt.recovery.aa,alt.recovery.religion
Subject: The Truth about Newsgroups
Date: 14 May 1996 01:35:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <4n8o1v$f...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
It's repost time again....time to post those realities that we all know
to be true....
=====================================================================
1. If you post and pretend to be a fool, people will believe that you
are a fool.
Corollary: If you then post and explain that you were only pretending,
nobody will change their mind.
2. The Net-Nature is very simple. Usenet is *not* dominated by the
smartest people, the most interesting people, or the most learned
people. It is dominated by the people who want to tell other people
their opinions. To expect anything else is absurd.
3. Similarly, the topics that dominate any given newsgroup are not the
most interesting, the most helpful, or the most useful. They're
the most acrimonious and the most dissent-laden. How else could
things possibly turn out?
4. A person who says, "Sorry, I had to point that out to you" is
always telling two lies. Ditto for "Sorry, I couldn't pass this up."
"I see your point but...." means the opposite.
5. When a fool posts deliberate flamebait, he has no influence over
whether he/she succeeds. You do.
6. It is easy to patronize the author of the post in which you agree.
It is equally as easy for the author to patronize you back. This can
go on for weeks on end.
Corollary: You will look clever to the people who already agree with
you and like a fool to the rest of us.
Second Corollary: If you post to a newsgroup to which you are new and
a prominent personage patronizes you, that can also go on for weeks
on end.
7. If you feel you know something funny or clever or wise, you may
decide to post it here. Please keep in mind, you are the 4,000th
person to do so.
8. If you hate something, there is a newsgroup where people are
discussing it. Abortion, recovery, Republicans, eating meat,
tattooing, worship, bondage, whatever. You will be tempted to appear
on that newsgroup and point out to everyone the error of their ways.
Please keep in mind that you are the 4,000th person to do so.
9. If something is particularly funny, clever, or wise, then you
will be the 4,000th person *this month.*
10. The exclamation point "!" is a sentence tag which denotes
emphasis. The double exclamation point "!!" is a sentence tag
which denotes the writer is a self-centered fool who think his/her
concerns are more important than anyone else. The triple "!!!"
is an exaggeration of the double. Four or more exclamation points
indicate sexual inadequacy.
11. You, personally, are a unique, exciting, vibrant, intelligent,
wise, and self effacing individual with a great deal to contribute
to the newsgroups you select on the Net. So is every other
schmuck who posts. Get over it.
12. The demise of this newsgroup and the Net is imminent--and always
will be.......
13. It's not a super-highway. It's not a fishnet. It's not a
surfable ocean, a maze, a 3 dimensional space of lights, a city
or a game. It's not a cocktail party an argument or
a home. It *is*, what it *is*. You will never prove yourself
"cool" or an "insider" by using the "hip" metaphors or slogans of your
group to try to control or impress other people. This interlinked
computer system of the world doesn't need names, judgments,
explanations, or justification---it just *is*. The playing field is
level and if you don't like it, you must not be used to equality.
14. Internet gurus on a specific topic are a dime a dozen. It is
the people who don't know much who are rare.
Patented, 1993
Gary
---- End Forwarded Message
Galactic Council
--
This is Annexation!
DrPostman <It...@mysig.emailthere> wrote in article
<373fb4fb...@news.mindspring.com>...
> few...@eskimo.com (Fewtch) wrote:
>
> >
> >You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die. It is a
> >forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life, so
> >they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
> >
> >This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
> >negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
> >
> >Tim
>
>
> Thanks for playing, please come again.
>
>
>
Galactic Council
if I die before I wake, the Galactic Collective will be your worst fate.
--
This post is hereby ANNEXED!!!!
DrPostman <It...@mysig.emailthere> wrote in article
<3740b551...@news.mindspring.com>...
> "AB" <(aaronb)@eskimo.com> wrote:
>
> >How 'bout this: you let it die FOR YOU, and all of us, who use it for
> >tech-support (giving and getting), exchanging art, keeping in touch with
> >birds-of-a-feather, trading impressions and ideas and, occasionally,
letting
> >off steam, go ahead and enjoy this unique means of community.
>
>
> Not to mention all the free porno on the binary groups - can't
> forget about those.
>
>
>
Galactic Council
--
This post is hereby ANNEXED!!!!
DrPostman <It...@mysig.emailthere> wrote in article
<3741b61a...@news.mindspring.com>...
> few...@eskimo.com (Fewtch) wrote:
>
> >
> >You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die.
>
DrPostman
>Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the HIGH COUNCIL my ANEXATION will keep,
>if I die before I wake, the Galactic Collective will be your worst fate.
You like all the free porno too.
Roger Isaacs
>According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it,
>there are two Mystic Adepts in this world, with access to
> with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
> Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
As we all know, number of years spent meditating is not proof of attainment.
Because Michael uses this false evidence to support his claim of Guru status,
we should assume his claim is also false.
> > > To approach the Supreme Spirit, or the Almighty, the path of Shabd, Nam,
or
> > > Holy Spirit, is the only way.
How do you know it's the "only way"? Have you tried all the other ways? What
proof can you supply here?
> > Question #1: You say you have no idea how many mystic adepts there are. Yet
> > there are only two gurus capable of producing adepts ( one being yourself )
> > and they have perfect accounting of the students even through many
lifetimes.
> > How is it that you do not know how many graduates there are if you have
> > perfect accounting of all the students?
>
> Roger, you can sure come up with some questions. That's all right, I don't
> mind. The Master is omniscient, as I've written many times before, but he
> would get that knowledge by means of meditation, and he could know exactly
> how many mystic adepts there are for each Guru. A Master always knows what
> he needs to know. If there is something he needs to know the Supreme Being
> will just project that information before him by means of the Shabd, Nam, or
> Holy Spirit.
You say that you are omniscient. Yet you say the Supreme Being will project
the information you need to know before you. Aren't you confusing genuine
wealth with mere wealth by association? For example: Imagine a pennyless
beggar. This beggar has a an association with a wealthy man. Whenever the
beggar needs money the wealthy man drops a twenty into the beggars cup. Now
would it be correct for the beggar to claim that he is infinitely wealth
because of this association?
Since you claim that the Supreme Being projects information before you, this
shows that YOU are in fact NOT omniscient. Otherwise, if your were truly
omniscient, you'd have no need for assistance from a Supreme Being.
In January you said the Supreme Being told you that the Broncos would be
beaten in the Super Bowl, but in fact they won. From this it would seem that
even your claim to having a connection to the supreme being is false.
> It is known by meditation. Every Master is "one," with the Holy Spirit, and
> therefore omniscient.
What does "one" with the supreme being really mean? You say you are "one"
with the supreme being, yet you describe this relationship in terms of
seperation as well (Supreme Being projects information whenever you need it
or have to go into meditation to reach the supreme being...). So what does it
mean "one with the Supreme Being" ??
> The Master knows all about past karmas. Every penny, every centavo, must be
> paid one way or the other, before we are allowed to go beyond the reach of
> karma.
I think this is a misconception. Enlightenment is the clear
understanding/knowing that karma ( action ) no longer binds the doer. If you
say 'all karma must be paid to reach enlightenment', then how do you explain
that the enlightened continue to act in the world? The existence of an
enlightened person's body and the maintenance of that body and participation
in the world shows that karma (action) continues. The change is that the doer
is no longer bound by the action.
>The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means of Surat
> Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
Facinating, so the master teaches us Yoga, but it is NOT our practice of yoga
that burns karma. Even though we practice yoga, you say the Master is the one
that actually burns our karma?
A man, blind since birth, may speak with passion & conviction about what he
imagines to be sight. However, a close examination of his descriptions will
show them to be inconsistent.
Roger
www.newu.org
sh...@my-dejanews.com
har...@cyberlink.bc.ca wrote:
>
>
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means of Surat
> > Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
> > >
> >
>
It is hard work at meditation that will nullify the effect of the karmas.
Wishing won't do any good at all.
The True
Guru
> says...'work it off'... if you have made many lives by creating obvious and
subtle
> mental and physical abuses of mankind, then it is time to start serving
mankind
> before yourself.
That would be like the bling following the blind. We need to follow someone
who can see. We need to follow someone who has his spiritual eyes wide open.
Sort of like when Jesus said "Go and sin no more."
Jesus said this after he made that woman his disciple. That is how it should
be for all disciples of Perfect Masters.
>
> What is the difference you ask?... One 'way' has a price tag... is not Truth
free?
True Masters will give us truth free, at least with regards to money. We
have to pay a price, and we do that simply by having love and faith in the
Living Master, and following his instructions. We have to submit our ego to
him. Then we can make some spiritual progress.
>
> Regards.
Best Wishes,
>
> Tim Harris
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
> --
> For more information on the
> CASUAL ENLIGHTENMENT METHOD please visit:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html
> ICQ # 34365156
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
sh...@my-dejanews.com
Roger Isaacs <RIs...@cqg.com> wrote:
> sh...@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote:
> >According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it,
> >there are two Mystic Adepts in this world, with access to
> > with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
> > Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
>
> As we all know, number of years spent meditating is not proof of attainment.
I didn't say it was "proof." I'm saying I have paid my dues, that's all.
> Because Michael uses this false evidence to support his claim of Guru status,
> we should assume his claim is also false.
It is not false evidence. I was initiated by a Great Master nearly 35 years
ago, and I have practiced meditation since then.
>
> > > > To approach the Supreme Spirit, or the Almighty, the path of Shabd, Nam,
> or
> > > > Holy Spirit, is the only way.
>
> How do you know it's the "only way"? Have you tried all the other ways? What
> proof can you supply here?
From the highest stage, one can see all "other," paths.
>
> > > Question #1: You say you have no idea how many mystic adepts there are.
Yet
> > > there are only two gurus capable of producing adepts ( one being yourself
)
> > > and they have perfect accounting of the students even through many
> lifetimes.
> > > How is it that you do not know how many graduates there are if you have
> > > perfect accounting of all the students?
> >
> > Roger, you can sure come up with some questions. That's all right, I don't
> > mind. The Master is omniscient, as I've written many times before, but he
> > would get that knowledge by means of meditation, and he could know exactly
> > how many mystic adepts there are for each Guru. A Master always knows what
> > he needs to know. If there is something he needs to know the Supreme Being
> > will just project that information before him by means of the Shabd, Nam, or
> > Holy Spirit.
>
> You say that you are omniscient. Yet you say the Supreme Being will project
> the information you need to know before you. Aren't you confusing genuine
> wealth with mere wealth by association?
Roger, you are splitting hairs, here. What difference does it make? Wealth
is wealth, no matter how it is gotten.
For example: Imagine a pennyless
> beggar. This beggar has a an association with a wealthy man. Whenever the
> beggar needs money the wealthy man drops a twenty into the beggars cup. Now
> would it be correct for the beggar to claim that he is infinitely wealth
> because of this association?
No, there is a difference between $20, received regularly, and "infinite,"
wealth. You put a limitation on that.
>
> Since you claim that the Supreme Being projects information before you, this
> shows that YOU are in fact NOT omniscient. Otherwise, if your were truly
> omniscient, you'd have no need for assistance from a Supreme Being.
See the answer I wrote above. If he is always assisting me, then it's the
same. Right?
>
> In January you said the Supreme Being told you that the Broncos would be
> beaten in the Super Bowl, but in fact they won. From this it would seem that
> even your claim to having a connection to the supreme being is false.
Yes, that was something unimportant. I was separating the wheat from the
chaff.
>
> > It is known by meditation. Every Master is "one," with the Holy Spirit, and
> > therefore omniscient.
>
> What does "one" with the supreme being really mean? You say you are "one"
> with the supreme being, yet you describe this relationship in terms of
> seperation as well (Supreme Being projects information whenever you need it
> or have to go into meditation to reach the supreme being...). So what does it
> mean "one with the Supreme Being" ??
I can't comment too much on my association with the Almighty. There seems to
be a difference sometimes, when Masters speak of him, but actually, there is
none. The Father and the Son are one, even though sometimes Christ spoke of
himself as the son, and sometimes he spoke of himself as the Father.
>
> > The Master knows all about past karmas. Every penny, every centavo, must be
> > paid one way or the other, before we are allowed to go beyond the reach of
> > karma.
>
> I think this is a misconception.
Okay, Roger, you still think you are greater than me.
Enlightenment is the clear
> understanding/knowing that karma ( action ) no longer binds the doer.
Yes, I agree so far!
If you
> say 'all karma must be paid to reach enlightenment', then how do you explain
> that the enlightened continue to act in the world?
I don't have time to adequately explaing this, but we have a destiny,
Pralabdh Karma, we have stored Karma, called Sinchit Karma, and we have a new
crop which we sow everyday, at least some people do this, and it is called
Kriyaman Karma. To reach the Karmaless stage we need to go beyond the Sinchit
Karma, but that means we still have Pralabdh Karma to go through in this
world. Such a person could pay off the karma with his spiritual wealth, but
he will always live out his life according to the will of the Almighty.
The existence of an
> enlightened person's body and the maintenance of that body and participation
> in the world shows that karma (action) continues. The change is that the doer
> is no longer bound by the action.
I explained above.
>
> >The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means of Surat
> > Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
>
> Facinating, so the master teaches us Yoga, but it is NOT our practice of yoga
> that burns karma. Even though we practice yoga, you say the Master is the one
> that actually burns our karma?
It is really the same, although it might be hard to understand. It is the
spiritual progress we make internally in contact with the Shabd, Nam, or Holy
Spirit, that will make our karmic load lighter and lighter. As a result, our
soul soars higher and higher, and ultimately it goes beyond all karma and back
to the Supreme Being.
The real form of the Master is the Shabd. He is not a body at all. He is
the "word," made flesh. So, I hope you can understand, how it can be "our
effort," the meditation, and the Master's help, the Shabd, both helping to
lift the soul higher and higher.
>
> A man, blind since birth, may speak with passion & conviction about what he
> imagines to be sight. However, a close examination of his descriptions will
> show them to be inconsistent.
My teachings are not inconsistent. I am sharing them with the world under
orders of the Supreme Being. If humanity wants to consider me to be "blind,"
spiritually, then that is humanity's problem. We have to take a chance on
someone, before death overtakes us and it is too late. We should not
procrastinate too much.
John Greene
(including you, me and the usenet) as a dildo/vibrogina 99.99% of the time.
Don't blame the texturized surfaces.
Do you think my cliched humping is ugly and shameful?
What do YOU do when people jeer at your little dick and obvious strokes?
Practice in the closet until you're good enough?
The desprately horny monkeys have been let out of their cells into the
common area. Now they're going to fuck each other for years and years and
years and call it everything under the sun but fucking. It's just a lie. So
what? So let's fuck!
-J
DrPostman wrote in message <3741b61a...@news.mindspring.com>...
jo...@ix.netcom.com
[snip]
> I didn't say it was "proof." I'm saying I have paid my dues, that's all.
God does not accept dues.
[snip]
--jodyr.
jo...@ix.netcom.com
[snip]
> Avatara Adi Da Samraj is arguably (and confessed by many) the
> Greatest Spiritual Adept and Master to have ever appeared in the Earth realm.
Ok Senny, why exactly should I believe this? Why is Adi Da greater than
say Ramakrishna, Ramana Marharshi, Rumi or Kabir?
[snip]
--jodyr.
jo...@ix.netcom.com
Well, I could contend with that. Ramakrishna
was pretty darn nutty too in his ways. ;)
> and he managed to become an
> inspired and prolific writer
> in spite of his very dubious
> teachers Muktananda (the guy
> who tried to "steal" Ram Dass
> from Neem Karoli Baba with
> fancy siddhis) and Rudi (an
> apparently depressed and
> rather resentful fellow). Is
> he "the Greatest?" I have no
> doubt of it, given Senny's
> obviously sincere bhakti. Of
> course, so are "say
> Ramakrishna, Ramana Marharshi,
> Rumi or Kabir." Among
> authentic embodiments --
> whether an amyl nitrate
> huffing New Yorker like Adi
> Da, a heartbroken Persian
> exile poet like Rumi, or a
> sweet renunciate like Sri
> Ramana, there isn't the
> slightest significant
> difference. The wine of
> realization is exactly the
> same, only the container
> differs. Adi Da is simply
> Senny's favorite bottle, and
> who are we to argue with
> that? After nearly four
> decades of seeking, he seems
> to have found surrender. If
> true, one can only say "Jai
> Da!"
:)
--jodyr.
Tim Harris
> It is hard work at meditation that will nullify the effect of the karmas.
You are wrong.
Will is action and, so to, is God's will. You pray and meditate while the children
of God beg in the streets for food, shelter and peace in this world of abundance.
You do this in vain and for your vainity. Your meditation serves no one but you
and your selfish desire to be 'a' Messiah. Goodness, kindness, and compassion are
not words to be repeated in 'empty mantras', they are God's will to be 'done' by
those that serve the one true God.
You mislead.
It is my hope, Michael, that you are still blinded and asleep by the 'super ego'
of awakening to the Christ within for, if you claim, as you stand now before the
one true God, mankind, and myself that you see clearly, then you must know that
you need not look any further than me to find your spiritual enemy.
Learn it now... learn it later... makes no difference.
Gentle Peace.
Sri Pra Eun
Master of Truth
King of the Angels
Servant of God and Man
Protector of the Throne
of the one True God
P.S.... for your sake... you best pray that I am delusional however, I think we
both know better.
Heart Happy
>
> jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> >Senny wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> Avatara Adi Da Samraj is arguably (and confessed by many) the
> >> Greatest Spiritual Adept and Master to have ever appeared in the Earth realm.
> >
> >Ok Senny, why exactly should I believe this? Why is Adi Da greater than
> >say Ramakrishna, Ramana Marharshi, Rumi or Kabir?
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> He's crazier than any of them,
******* Now where'd you get that idea? :-)
> and he managed to become an
> inspired and prolific writer
> in spite of his very dubious
> teachers Muktananda
******** I've seen worse. :-) Every time I see a picture of Muktananda
though,
I want to throw up. :-) God he is ugly, and he's not really smart
either.
It took Da a while to figure that one out though. :-) I can relate.
How embarrassing. :-)
(the guy
> who tried to "steal" Ram Dass
> from Neem Karoli Baba with
> fancy siddhis) and Rudi (an
> apparently depressed and
> rather resentful fellow). Is
> he "the Greatest?" I have no
> doubt of it, given Senny's
> obviously sincere bhakti. Of
> course, so are "say
> Ramakrishna, Ramana Marharshi,
> Rumi or Kabir." Among
> authentic embodiments --
> whether an amyl nitrate
> huffing New Yorker like Adi
> Da, a heartbroken Persian
> exile poet like Rumi, or a
> sweet renunciate like Sri
> Ramana, there isn't the
> slightest significant
> difference. The wine of
> realization is exactly the
> same, only the container
> differs.
********* It's grand isn't it?? It's everyone's uniqueness that makes
life
worthwhile - really.
Adi Da is simply
> Senny's favorite bottle, and
> who are we to argue with
> that? After nearly four
> decades of seeking, he seems
> to have found surrender. If
> true, one can only say "Jai
> Da!"
>
> __________________________________________________
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
>
> m(_ _)m
--
Happy Days,
Judi
http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/judi-1.htm
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada/morea.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/members.html
Senny
I saw your posting and felt your disatisfaction to the answers given in
response to your questions. If you are seeking a true and real Sat-Guru
then I recommend you go to the website www.adidam.org and seriously
and fully examine and *consider* the instruction of the Divine World
Teacher and True Heart Master Avatara Adi Da Samraj. You will find
more direct answers and far more detailed life and spiritual instruction (on
this website alone - over 500 pages) than you have been
given thus far - including comprehensive discourses on the limited
Realisation of mystics and all Realisation prior to absolute God Realisation
or Full Enlightenment. And yes, this Sat Guru is physically alive. In my 33
years of seeking I have not found any living, Guru of any degree, who has addressed
and instructed in every conceivable area of life and explicit detail
(in over 70 books) all summarised in the Dawn Horse Testament - the deatailed
account of the process and all processes prior to and inclusive of absolute God
Realisation. There is no other book on the planet (and I challenge anyone who reads
this to reveal otherwise) that goes into every detail of every stage and process up
to and inclusive of absolute God Realisation or Perfect Happiness and Perfect
Searchlessness. Avatara Adi Da Samraj is arguably (and confessed by many) the
Greatest Spiritual Adept and Master to have ever appeared in the Earth realm. His
confession about who He Is and about His life Work over the
last 30 years is also radically unique - I have never heard *any Guru* confess
this. What is that? Well I'm to leave that to you to discover? It is said in the
traditions that you do not find the Sat Guru, He finds you. Perhaps this is your
time.
All the best my friend,
Love Senen
Love Senen
sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <7gcns3$2n8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> Roger Isaacs <RIs...@cqg.com> wrote:
> > sh...@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote:
> > > Let me know if I have explained it sufficiently well.
> >
> > Well, I'm still confused Michael:
> >
> > > Michael Martin wrote: ( edited to gather quotes together )
> > > To approach the Supreme Spirit, or the Almighty, the path of Shabd, Nam, or
> > > Holy Spirit, is the only way.
> >
> > > According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it, there are two
> Mystic
> > > Adepts in this world, with access to the Supreme Being.
> >
> > > I'm saying that I
> > > believe there are two Sat Gurus capable of taking souls to the Supreme
> Being.
> > > One can be a Mystic Adept, and not be a Sat Guru. If a Mystic Adept
> accepts
> > > disciples then he becomes a Sat Guru. There might be any number of Mystic
> > > Adepts, and I never put a figure on them.
> >
> > > We might not reach the
> > > Supreme Being in this life. It might take a few lifetimes, and also, we
> > > might be placed by the Master in some intermediate stage, such as the Astral
> > > Plane, Causal Plane, etc.. We can also practice meditation in those stages
> > > and proceed to our destination, the Supreme Being.
> > >
> > > The True Master never leaves his disciples, and he will take them to their
> > > True Home one day, and make them one with him, and consequently, one with
> the
> > > Supreme Being.
> >
> > Ok: So you say there's only one path to the supreme being, there are only 2
> > gurus capable of taking souls to the supreme being, and these gurus follow the
> > students around forever through different lives to make sure they succeed.
>
> I think we agree now, but I would write it like this, the Master leads the
> students toward the Creator until they succeed. The Master is the Leader not
> the follower.
> >
> > Question #1: You say you have no idea how many mystic adepts there are. Yet
> > there are only two gurus capable of producing adepts ( one being yourself )
> > and they have perfect accounting of the students even through many lifetimes.
> > How is it that you do not know how many graduates there are if you have
> > perfect accounting of all the students?
>
> Roger, you can sure come up with some questions. That's all right, I don't
> mind. The Master is omniscient, as I've written many times before, but he
> would get that knowledge by means of meditation, and he could know exactly
> how many mystic adepts there are for each Guru. A Master always knows what
> he needs to know. If there is something he needs to know the Supreme Being
> will just project that information before him by means of the Shabd, Nam, or
> Holy Spirit.
>
> Another item, Roger, what the Master needs to know, and what we need to know,
> are often two different categories.
>
> Surely this can be resolved through
> > a phone call to the other guru and an exchange of records?
>
> It is known by meditation. Every Master is "one," with the Holy Spirit, and
> therefore omniscient.
> >
> > I'm imagining Paduka State University trying to collect past due student loans
> > from prior incarnations.
>
> The Master knows all about past karmas. Every penny, every centavo, must be
> paid one way or the other, before we are allowed to go beyond the reach of
> karma. The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means of Surat
> Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
> >
> > Question #2: You say there are exactly 2 gurus. You say you have no idea how
> > many mystic adepts there are.
>
> Roger, I know how many there are, but that is for me to know, and for anyone
> else who reaches the ultimate stage of spirituality. It is not necessarily
> for everyone to know. Masters are one, and therefore, they are aware of each
> other.
>
> And yet a mystic adept only needs to accept
> > disciples to be promoted to a guru.
>
> This is a vast oversimplification, Roger. The Mystic Adept needs to have
> access to the ultimate stage, and whether he accepts, or rejects, disciples
> has no bearing on his stature. He is not promoted or demoted by accepting or
> rejecting disciples. He would be one with the Supreme Being, regardless of
> what he does.
>
> This seems inconsistent to me: if you have
> > no idea how many mystic adepts there are,
>
> I do know.
>
> how would you know if one or many
> > decided to accept students and become gurus?
>
> How does a Master know anything? He knows anything by meditation. He takes
> his consciousness to the level of omniscience and accesses all knowledge.
>
> >
> > If you have no idea how many adepts there are,
>
> I do know.
>
> and an adept can become a guru
> > at any time, then, seems to me like you have absolutely no idea how many gurus
> > there really are!
>
> Roger, you are guessing at the extent of my knowledge. I have access to the
> level of consciousness where anything can be known. I know how many Sat
> Gurus, and Mystic Adepts, there are, but I don't intend on sharing this
> knowledge.
Senny
It's quite humorous to see someone condemning others and in their
very condemning they themselves are *doing* the very thing that
they condemn. It would have been a more congruent act to neither
positively ego pet or negatively ego pet. How else can you be congruent
with your own argument.? Perhaps the green moon didn't know how crimson
you were. But you are loved anyway. At least for the humorous
entertainment
you provide the likes of me. Go on soldier, go on!!!
Love Senen
Fewtch wrote:
> You heard it correctly. I am praying that Usenet will die. It is a
> forum for those who have nobody to listen to them in real life, so
> they post here hoping someone will listen and reply.
>
> This whole damned thing is one big ego-petting ceremony. Either
> negative petting or positive petting, it's all petting.
>
> Tim
>
Senny
sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
In article <372A2E93...@cyberlink.bc.ca>,
har...@cyberlink.bc.ca wrote:
>
>
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means of Surat
> > Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
> > >
> >
> In other words, the Master shows you how to 'wish' the karma away.
It is hard work at meditation that will nullify the effect of the karmas.
Wishing won't do any good at all.
The True Guru > says...'work it off'... if you have made many lives by creating obvious and subtle > mental and physical abuses of mankind, then it is time to start serving mankind > before yourself.
This is not necessarily the case. True Sat Gurus have also advocated Satsang
(living in the company or the presence or the image of the Guru). In other words meditating on the Form and State of the Sat Guru. And, based on the
Universal principle (that one becomes, or develops the qualities of, what one meditates on, or gives ones attention to, or even t hinks about) one duplicates the Realisation of the Sat Guru by Grace - with no effort on the seekers part.
This also has been advocated as the simplest and most direct approach.
That would be like the bling following the blind. We need to follow someone
who can see. We need to follow someone who has his spiritual eyes wide open.Sort of like when Jesus said "Go and sin no more."
Jesus said this after he made that woman his disciple. That is how it should
be for all disciples of Perfect Masters.>
> What is the difference you ask?... One 'way' has a price tag... is not Truth
free?True Masters will give us truth free, at least with regards to money.
This is a presumption. Many True Masters of this time have required
even financial contributions as part of the sacrifice of self. After
all, books
need to be printed. Ashrams are developed. These are not manifested
without money. So while there may be many Masters offering the Gift
of
Full Realisation without any means of money - generally it does
require
some money, if not only to remain in their company and pay for food,
accomodation in the ashram, clothing etc. As well ( at least in
some traditions)
a formal tithe. The giving of a percentage of one's wages to the
Sat-Guru was
seen and is seen as a form of Service to the Divine in the form
of the Sat Guru. In fact traditionally for Kings, Queens and Rulers and
Governers of Nations it was seen as they're principle form of sahdana (or
spiritual practise).
Money is a form of life energy that many teachers and people involved
in Spititual and Religious matters tend to become complicated with. However
the True Spiritual Master makes no distinction between the granting
of attention to His Form (Darshan) or the granting of a monetary tithe.
Only the
seeker, the separate self has a problem, an opinion or a point of
view, or a complication around this matter of money. Even this area is
being addressed
by True Masters in these modern times.
Love Senen
We
have to pay a price, and we do that simply by having love and faith in the
Living Master, and following his instructions. We have to submit our ego to
him. Then we can make some spiritual progress.
>
> Regards.Best Wishes,
>
> Tim HarrisMichael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
> --
> For more information on the
> CASUAL ENLIGHTENMENT METHOD please visit:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html
> ICQ # 34365156
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Bruce Morgen
>Senny wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> Avatara Adi Da Samraj is arguably (and confessed by many) the
>> Greatest Spiritual Adept and Master to have ever appeared in the Earth realm.
>
>Ok Senny, why exactly should I believe this? Why is Adi Da greater than
>say Ramakrishna, Ramana Marharshi, Rumi or Kabir?
>
>[snip]
>
He's crazier than any of them,
and he managed to become an
inspired and prolific writer
in spite of his very dubious
teachers Muktananda (the guy
who tried to "steal" Ram Dass
from Neem Karoli Baba with
fancy siddhis) and Rudi (an
apparently depressed and
rather resentful fellow). Is
he "the Greatest?" I have no
doubt of it, given Senny's
obviously sincere bhakti. Of
course, so are "say
Ramakrishna, Ramana Marharshi,
Rumi or Kabir." Among
authentic embodiments --
whether an amyl nitrate
huffing New Yorker like Adi
Da, a heartbroken Persian
exile poet like Rumi, or a
sweet renunciate like Sri
Ramana, there isn't the
slightest significant
difference. The wine of
realization is exactly the
same, only the container
differs. Adi Da is simply
DrPostman
>So 99.99% of the people will employ every texturized surface within reach
>(including you, me and the usenet) as a dildo/vibrogina 99.99% of the time.
>Don't blame the texturized surfaces.
I don't. Usenet is the equivalent of writing on the bathroom wall.
>Do you think my cliched humping is ugly and shameful?
It isn't always about you.
sh...@my-dejanews.com
har...@cyberlink.bc.ca wrote:
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > It is hard work at meditation that will nullify the effect of the karmas.
>
I am right. If we do our duty to the True Master, that is, we meditate with
regularity and punctuality, then it will invoke the Lord's grace, and the
Lord's grace will come in the form of Shabd, Nam, or Holy Spirit which
nullifies our karmas, and makes us fit to merge into the Supreme Being.
>
> Will is action and, so to, is God's will. You pray and meditate while the children
> of God beg in the streets for food, shelter and peace in this world of abundance.
This has nothing to do with the subject we are discussing.
> You do this in vain and for your vainity.
We do this to become fit to merge back into our Creator.
Your meditation serves no one but you
> and your selfish desire to be 'a' Messiah.
We must save ourselves, before we can think about saving others. I am
offering myself, now, to redeem others. Your charge is absolutely
ridiculous. I am offering God-Realization, if only the seekers will follow
my instructions. That is not a "selfish," desire. It is antithetical to
selfish. I am surprised you have come to such a ridiculous conclusion, which
has nothing to do with the truth at all.
Goodness, kindness, and compassion are
> not words to be repeated in 'empty mantras', they are God's will to be 'done' by
> those that serve the one true God.
If we are going to help others, then first we must become spritually wealthy
enough to help others. If we are spiritually destitute, then how can we
share any spiritual wealth with others?
Also, how can we know what God's will is? We have to reach a high level of
consciousness, before we can even know what his will is. We might think we
are doing his will, but it might even be contrary to his will. We should
just submit ourselves to someone who is in touch with God's will, and follow
his advice, rather than just dancing to the tunes of our own mind.
>
> You mislead.
You are welcome to your opinion.
>
> It is my hope, Michael, that you are still blinded and asleep by the 'super ego'
> of awakening to the Christ within for, if you claim, as you stand now before the
> one true God, mankind, and myself that you see clearly, then you must know that
> you need not look any further than me to find your spiritual enemy.
Well, this doesn't surprise me. I accept everything as God's will.
>
> Learn it now... learn it later... makes no difference.
Thanks.
>
> Gentle Peace.
>
> Sri Pra Eun
>
> Master of Truth
> King of the Angels
> Servant of God and Man
> Protector of the Throne
> of the one True God
>
> P.S.... for your sake... you best pray that I am delusional however, I think we
> both know better.
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
sh...@my-dejanews.com
jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I didn't say it was "proof." I'm saying I have paid my dues, that's all.
>
He accepted mine, Jody. I paid them in the form of love, devotion,
meditation, etc., etc....
>
> [snip]
>
> --jodyr.
sh...@my-dejanews.com
> >> Greatest Spiritual Adept and Master to have ever appeared in the Earth realm.
Why don"t you tell us what you mean by "Greatest?" All Masters are
absolutely equal in power, wisdom, and knowledge. Some have more disciples
than others, but that doesn't mean they are "greater," at least not in my
opinion. If Masters are "one," with the Supreme Being, then logically, they
must have the same power. Do you agree?
> >
> >Ok Senny, why exactly should I believe this? Why is Adi Da greater than
> >say Ramakrishna, Ramana Marharshi, Rumi or Kabir?
My own Master initiated 1,200,000 disciples. You might explain why Adi Da is
greater than him, in your opinion.
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> He's crazier than any of them,
> and he managed to become an
> inspired and prolific writer
> in spite of his very dubious
> teachers Muktananda (the guy
> who tried to "steal" Ram Dass
> from Neem Karoli Baba with
> fancy siddhis) and Rudi (an
> apparently depressed and
> rather resentful fellow). Is
> he "the Greatest?" I have no
> doubt of it, given Senny's
> obviously sincere bhakti. Of
> course, so are "say
> Ramakrishna, Ramana Marharshi,
> Rumi or Kabir." Among
> authentic embodiments --
> whether an amyl nitrate
> huffing New Yorker like Adi
> Da, a heartbroken Persian
> exile poet like Rumi,
Every Mystic goes through a stage, known as intense longing. Let's don't
give the implication that Rumi was the only Mystic who was heartbroken.
Kabir said he lost so much weight from "bireh," or intense longing, that the
crows thought he was dead and were pecking at his bones.
or a
> sweet renunciate like Sri
> Ramana, there isn't the
> slightest significant
> difference.
This is Mr. Morgen's opinion. I am not going to comment on each Guru's
spirituality. Some might have reached higher levels, and some might be
confined to lower levels of consciousness.
The wine of
> realization is exactly the
> same, only the container
> differs.
It is the same, if they have access to the Supreme Being. Every Guru did not
gain that access. Some are confined to lower levels. Some have not even
gone beyond mind and matter.
Adi Da is simply
> Senny's favorite bottle, and
> who are we to argue with
> that?
I'm not going to argue about it. I think if he is going to make such bold
statements about his Guru's greatness, than he ought to explain a little
more, at least, why he has reached that conclusion.
After nearly four
> decades of seeking, he seems
> to have found surrender. If
> true, one can only say "Jai
> Da!"
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
> __________________________________________________
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
>
> m(_ _)m
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
sh...@my-dejanews.com
Senny <se...@hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>
> --------------F0F707BD153A49B259F34C5A
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> See below....
>
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > In article <372A2E93...@cyberlink.bc.ca>,
> > har...@cyberlink.bc.ca wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means of Surat
> > > > Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > In other words, the Master shows you how to 'wish' the karma away.
> >
> > It is hard work at meditation that will nullify the effect of the karmas.
> > Wishing won't do any good at all.
> >
> > The True Guru > says...'work it off'... if you have made many lives by creating
> > obvious and subtle > mental and physical abuses of mankind, then it is time to
> > start serving mankind > before yourself.
>
> This is not necessarily the case. True Sat Gurus have also advocated Satsang
> (living in the company or the presence or the image of the Guru). In other words
> meditating on the Form and State of the Sat Guru. And, based on the
> Universal principle (that one becomes, or develops the qualities of, what one
> meditates on, or gives ones attention to, or even t hinks about) one duplicates
> the Realisation of the Sat Guru by Grace - with no effort on the seekers part.
> This also has been advocated as the simplest and most direct approach.
If you are advocating "no effort," on the seekers part, then I will strongly
disagree with you. I have followed the path, and I know it is effort that
invokes the Master's grace, and in turn, Master's grace inspires us to put in
more effort.
Christ said, "Knock, and it shall open." We have to put in our effort.
There is no other way.
>
> >
> > That would be like the blind following the blind. We need to follow someone
> > who can see. We need to follow someone who has his spiritual eyes wide open.
> >
> > Sort of like when Jesus said "Go and sin no more."
> >
> > Jesus said this after he made that woman his disciple. That is how it should
> > be for all disciples of Perfect Masters.
> >
> > >
> > > What is the difference you ask?... One 'way' has a price tag... is not Truth
> > free?
> >
> > True Masters will give us truth free, at least with regards to money.
>
> This is a presumption. Many True Masters of this time have required
> even financial contributions as part of the sacrifice of self.
That would be the same as "charging," money, and once again, I will have to
strongly disagree with that. Is this what Adi Da teaches?
After all, books
> need to be printed. Ashrams are developed. These are not manifested
> without money.
There is a big difference in "charging," and receiving a donation for the
good of the Sangat.
So while there may be many Masters offering the Gift of
> Full Realisation without any means of money - generally it does require
> some money, if not only to remain in their company and pay for food,
> accomodation in the ashram, clothing etc. As well ( at least in some traditions)
> a formal tithe.
True Masters don't charge money. Is this what Adi Da teaches?
The giving of a percentage of one's wages to the Sat-Guru was
> seen and is seen as a form of Service to the Divine in the form of the Sat Guru.
Yes, it has been. Money has been accepted as a donation to help the Master
carry on his spiritual work. My own Master used to give discourses to
perhaps 100,000 souls. They were also fed from a free kitchen. The Master
should not be expected to care for such a large number with just his personal
money. This would have to be taken care of by using the money from donations
to the work of the Master.
> In fact traditionally for Kings, Queens and Rulers and Governers of Nations it was
> seen as they're principle form of sahdana (or spiritual practise).
We need to follow the example of Saints, and nobody else.
>
> Money is a form of life energy that many teachers and people involved in Spititual
> and Religious matters tend to become complicated with. However
> the True Spiritual Master makes no distinction between the granting of attention
> to His Form (Darshan) or the granting of a monetary tithe. Only the
> seeker, the separate self has a problem, an opinion or a point of view, or a
> complication around this matter of money. Even this area is being addressed
> by True Masters in these modern times.
Yes, but still they do not charge money.
>
> Love Senen
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
> > We
> > have to pay a price, and we do that simply by having love and faith in the
> > Living Master, and following his instructions. We have to submit our ego to
> > him. Then we can make some spiritual progress.
> >
> > >
> > > Regards.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > >
> > > Tim Harris
> >
> > Michael Martin
> > A Western Mystic
> > >
> > > --
> > > For more information on the
> > > CASUAL ENLIGHTENMENT METHOD please visit:
> > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html
> > > ICQ # 34365156
> > >
> > >
> >
> > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
> --------------F0F707BD153A49B259F34C5A
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML>
> See below....
> <P>sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>In article <372A2E93...@cyberlink.bc.ca>,
> <BR> har...@cyberlink.bc.ca wrote:
> <BR>>
> <BR>>
> <BR>> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> <BR>>
> <BR>> > The Master helps us to do that by burning our karmas by means
> of Surat
> <BR>> > Shabd Yoga, the yoga of the Sound Current.
> <BR>> > >
> <BR>> >
> <BR>> In other words, the Master shows you how to 'wish' the karma away.
> <P>It is hard work at meditation that will nullify the effect of the karmas.
> <BR>Wishing won't do any good at all.
> <P> The True Guru > says...'work it off'... if you have made many
> lives by creating obvious and subtle > mental and physical abuses of mankind,
> then it is time to start serving mankind > before yourself.</BLOCKQUOTE>
> <I>This is not necessarily the case. True Sat Gurus have also advocated
> Satsang</I>
> <BR><I>(living in the company or the presence or the image of the Guru).
> In other words meditating on the Form and State of the Sat Guru. And, based
> on the</I>
> <BR><I>Universal principle (that one becomes, or develops the qualities
> of, what one meditates on, or gives ones attention to, or even t hinks
> about) one duplicates the Realisation of the Sat Guru by Grace - with no
> effort on the seekers part.</I>
> <BR><I>This also has been advocated as the simplest and most direct approach.</I>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
> <BR>That would be like the bling following the blind. We need to
> follow someone
> <BR>who can see. We need to follow someone who has his spiritual
> eyes wide open.
> <P> Sort of like when Jesus said "Go and sin no more."
> <P>Jesus said this after he made that woman his disciple. That is
> how it should
> <BR>be for all disciples of Perfect Masters.
> <P>>
> <BR>> What is the difference you ask?... One 'way' has a price tag... is
> not Truth
> <BR>free?
> <P>True Masters will give us truth free, at least with regards to money.</BLOCKQUOTE>
> <I>This is a presumption. Many True Masters of this time have required</I>
> <BR><I>even financial contributions as part of the sacrifice of self. After
> all, books</I>
> <BR><I>need to be printed. Ashrams are developed. These are not manifested</I>
> <BR><I>without money. So while there may be many Masters offering the Gift
> of</I>
> <BR><I>Full Realisation without any means of money - generally it does
> require</I>
> <BR><I>some money, if not only to remain in their company and pay for food,</I>
> <BR><I>accomodation in the ashram, clothing etc. As well ( at least in
> some traditions)</I>
> <BR><I>a formal tithe. The giving of a percentage of one's wages to the
> Sat-Guru was</I>
> <BR><I>seen and is seen as a form of Service to the Divine in the form
> of the Sat Guru. In fact traditionally for Kings, Queens and Rulers and
> Governers of Nations it was seen as they're principle form of sahdana (or
> spiritual practise).</I><I></I>
> <P><I>Money is a form of life energy that many teachers and people involved
> in Spititual and Religious matters tend to become complicated with. However</I>
> <BR><I>the True Spiritual Master makes no distinction between the granting
> of attention to His Form (Darshan) or the granting of a monetary tithe.
> Only the</I>
> <BR><I>seeker, the separate self has a problem, an opinion or a point of
> view, or a complication around this matter of money. Even this area is
> being addressed</I>
> <BR><I>by True Masters in these modern times.</I><I></I>
> <P><I>Love Senen</I>
> <BR><I></I>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>We
> <BR>have to pay a price, and we do that simply by having love and faith
> in the
> <BR>Living Master, and following his instructions. We have to submit
> our ego to
> <BR>him. Then we can make some spiritual progress.
> <P>>
> <BR>> Regards.
> <P>Best Wishes,
> <BR>>
> <BR>> Tim Harris
> <P>Michael Martin
> <BR>A Western Mystic
> <BR>>
> <BR>> --
> <BR>> For more information on the
> <BR>> CASUAL ENLIGHTENMENT METHOD please visit:
> <BR>> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html</A>
> <BR>> ICQ # 34365156
> <BR>>
> <BR>>
> <P>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> <BR><A HREF="http://www.dejanews.com/">http://www.dejanews.com/</A>
> Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own</BLOCKQUOTE>
> </HTML>
>
> --------------F0F707BD153A49B259F34C5A--
Bruce Morgen
>In article <372E56DC...@ix.netcom.com>,
> jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > I didn't say it was "proof." I'm saying I have paid my dues, that's all.
>>
>> God does not accept dues.
>
>He accepted mine, Jody.
...and that is at the heart
of your delusion.
>I paid them in the form of love, devotion,
>meditation, etc., etc....
>
...and not being able to
face the absence of any
actual results, you've
invented some.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
[snip]
Tim Harris
within... please let me show you... if not for your benefit then surely for others...
sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> I am right.
You are perfectly correct in the 'super ego' model. You see, I do not claim to be right.
I state that you are wrong. There is a difference. One that you can not see.
> If we do our duty to the True Master, that is, we meditate with
> regularity and punctuality, then it will invoke the Lord's grace,
Do you claim to have the 'power' to invoke the Lord's grace? 'That' is ridiculous. One
would suggest that you claim to have a power 'greater' than the Lord to be able to
invoke his grace. Grace is given freely to the seeker of God. It is what allows us to
find if we seek. Grace is what opens the door when we knock. Grace is not something to
be invoked.
> and the
> Lord's grace will come in the form of Shabd, Nam, or Holy Spirit which
> nullifies our karmas,
No, this is wrong. The grace of the Holy Spirit is that which allows us to 'see' the
karma. We are faced with and carry the sins of our fathers. Each man stands equal to
God's law and only by his 'resistence' do we veer this way and that. Forgiveness is
given.
> and makes us fit to merge into the Supreme Being.
In other words... become the Supreme Being. Your intention is clear and I will not allow
it.
> > Will is action and, so to, is God's will. You pray and meditate while the children
> > of God beg in the streets for food, shelter and peace in this world of abundance.
>
> This has nothing to do with the subject we are discussing.
It has 'everything' to do with the subject we are dicussing. You would forsake humanity
for your own glory.
> > You do this in vain and for your vainity.
>
> We do this to become fit to merge back into our Creator.
Where else is there? We are 'all' in 'creation' where else is there to go?
> >Your meditation serves no one but you
> > and your selfish desire to be 'a' Messiah.
>
> We must save ourselves, before we can think about saving others.
This is the greatest statement that I have ever seen that directly shows your genuine
intention. Yes Michael... save yourself and forsake the rest of your brothers and
sisters. You are a 'coward' and your 'work' is that of self preservation at the expense
of the rest. You run and hide in your meditation while the world cries for a 'savior'.
You are the sum total of the Pied Piper of souls and you lead them to destruction.
> I am
> offering myself, now, to redeem others. Your charge is absolutely
> ridiculous. I am offering God-Realization, if only the seekers will follow
> my instructions.
Again... don't trip over that 'super ego'. The instructions are given. Man does not need
your 'false' embellishments. The true lesson of life that is laid out by God is to over
come the need for power. Life is a struggle for power this is the lesson. The lesson
that your name sake learned so long ago. Unfortuately, 'another' was sacraficed to get
his sorry ass out of the kingdom.
> That is not a "selfish," desire. It is antithetical to
> selfish. I am surprised you have come to such a ridiculous conclusion, which
> has nothing to do with the truth at all.
Nothing to do with 'your' truth is that not what you meant to say? You have deceived
even yourself. I am not deceived.
> >Goodness, kindness, and compassion are
> > not words to be repeated in 'empty mantras', they are God's will to be 'done' by
> > those that serve the one true God.
>
> If we are going to help others, then first we must become spritually wealthy
> enough to help others. If we are spiritually destitute, then how can we
> share any spiritual wealth with others?
Spirituality is not measured in wealth. It is measured by emptiness of self.
> Also, how can we know what God's will is?
Yes, how can we know this? And yet you claim to be this will incarnate.
> We have to reach a high level of
> consciousness, before we can even know what his will is.
No. The high level of conciousness gives us the ability to know when we are implementing
'our' will and 'not' the Lord's. It is what makes us sensitive to the evil deeds of men
so that we may know when to apply correction. You see Michael, correction is 'accepted'
when it is based in truth and God is seen 'above' the man. A child knows its fathers
voice.
> We might think we
> are doing his will, but it might even be contrary to his will. We should
> just submit ourselves to someone who is in touch with God's will,
I don't know if I should laugh here or not due to the seriousness of this delusion. Was
it not you who preached the blind leading the blind? Jim Jones, David Karech (sp), ....
the list is endless and the lives that have been taken in the name of self and vainity
are greater. We should listen to the teachings of those we suspect are in touch with
God's will, agreed, however, we must discern for ourselves if these teachings are
genuine. This may be done by observing his treatment of those that are blind and in
need. It is the goal of these masters, and I include you in this list, to seek mindless
followers. You attack the low self esteem and confusion. Even Jesus' disciples
questioned always. You exploit blindness.
Gentle Peace.
Tim Harris
psi_master
In article <372f6c32...@news.mindspring.com>,
It...@mysig.emailthere wrote:
> "Galactic Council" <tele...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the HIGH COUNCIL my ANEXATION will keep,
> >if I die before I wake, the Galactic Collective will be your worst fate.
>
> You like all the free porno too.
>
> --
>
> Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
> High Counselor of the New Usenet Order
> Addicted to Art Bell? http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1282
> Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, Lifetime member of the
> Art Bell Internet Fan Club, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
> You can email me at: jamiemps(at)mindspring.com
> "Nothing compares to the complicated futility of ignorance."
> - Kurt Vonnegut's "Hocus Pocus"
>
--
And the battle for conquest has ended! For the Galactic Collective
annex's all!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could learn a lot from a dummy. Buckle up.
sh...@my-dejanews.com
har...@cyberlink.bc.ca wrote:
> Michael... this is a wonderful display of the 'super ego' realized in the
Christ
> within... please let me show you... if not for your benefit then surely for
others...
I can hardly wait! :-)
>
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > I am right.
>
> You are perfectly correct in the 'super ego' model. You see, I do not claim to
be right.
> I state that you are wrong. There is a difference. One that you can not see.
Mr. Tim Harris claims that I am wrong.
Mr. Michael Martin says he is right.
If Michael Martin is the Sat Guru, then Mr. Tim Harris undoubtedly has the ego
problem.
If Michael Martin is not a Sat Guru, then he has simply stated that he is
right. If Michael Martin is wrong, perhaps, only perhaps, it could be
considered as ego. Then, we run into the problem that Mr. Harris needs to
provide supporting evidence to prove Michael Martin is wrong.
>
> > If we do our duty to the True Master, that is, we meditate with
> > regularity and punctuality, then it will invoke the Lord's grace,
>
> Do you claim to have the 'power' to invoke the Lord's grace?
If anybody, not just me, does what I wrote above, then it will invoke the
Lord's grace.
'That' is
ridiculous. One
> would suggest that you claim to have a power 'greater' than the Lord to be
able to
> invoke his grace.
No, it does not. Christ said, "Knock, it shall open." Who opens the door?
God does, and he does it because we have invoked his grace.
Grace is given freely to the seeker of God. It is what
allows us to
> find if we seek. Grace is what opens the door when we knock. Grace is not
something to
> be invoked.
You wrote what I just wrote above. God opens the door. Why? Because he
wants to give us his grace and mercy, because we love him. We have proven,
in this hypothetical case, that we love him, by having love and devotion for
the True Master, and by attending to our spritual meditation with regularity
and punctuality.
>
> > and the
> > Lord's grace will come in the form of Shabd, Nam, or Holy Spirit which
> > nullifies our karmas,
>
> No, this is wrong. The grace of the Holy Spirit is that which allows us to
'see' the
> karma. We are faced with and carry the sins of our fathers. Each man stands
equal to
> God's law and only by his 'resistence' do we veer this way and that.
Forgiveness is
> given.
I think we agree on this for the most part. Forgiveness, or his grace, is
given if the Lord is "moved," by us. If he feels compassion for us, he gives
it. What invokes his grace the most is, again, love and devotion for the
Living Master.
>
> > and makes us fit to merge into the Supreme Being.
>
> In other words... become the Supreme Being. Your intention is clear and I will
not allow
> it.
Yes, that is our goal, to lose our individuality, and to become "one," with
the Supreme Being. This has been the goal of spiritual seekers since time
immemorial. Our soul will never be happy, until it has merged back into the
Perfect Being.
>
> > > Will is action and, so to, is God's will. You pray and meditate while the
children
> > > of God beg in the streets for food, shelter and peace in this world of
abundance.
> >
> > This has nothing to do with the subject we are discussing.
>
> It has 'everything' to do with the subject we are dicussing. You would forsake
humanity
> for your own glory.
What about all the Saints who have appeared on earth? Are they guilty of the
charges you have concocted? No, they are not. God knows that Saints can't
save the whole world. Everybody is going through their karmas. If that had
been the mission of Saints, then this whole world would have been made heaven
by now.
>
> > > You do this in vain and for your vainity.
I'm sharing my spirituality for free, and somehow you have twisted it into
vanity? Strange reasoning to me!
> >
> > We do this to become fit to merge back into our Creator.
>
> Where else is there? We are 'all' in 'creation' where else is there to go?
Yes, but the average human being does not have access to the Creator. That is
what we need to be content. There are eight levels of consciousness, and the
average person is only using one of them, the physical consciousness.
>
> > >Your meditation serves no one but you
> > > and your selfish desire to be 'a' Messiah.
> >
> > We must save ourselves, before we can think about saving others.
>
> This is the greatest statement that I have ever seen that directly shows your
genuine
> intention. Yes Michael... save yourself and forsake the rest of your brothers
and
> sisters.
I am not forsaking anybody. They can follow me. I welcome all sincere
seekers.
You are a 'coward' and your 'work' is that of self preservation at
the expense
> of the rest. You run and hide in your meditation while the world cries for a
'savior'.
You see me here on Usenet, don't you. I am welcoming all sincere seekers.
> You are the sum total of the Pied Piper of souls and you lead them to
destruction.
What evidence do you have of that? I am just giving the True Teachings.
Nobody is under any coercion to follow me at all. They can satisfy their
intellect in regards to the theory of Mysticism, and they can make a
decision. I will accept their decision as the Lord's will.
>
> > I am
> > offering myself, now, to redeem others. Your charge is absolutely
> > ridiculous. I am offering God-Realization, if only the seekers will follow
> > my instructions.
>
> Again... don't trip over that 'super ego'. The instructions are given. Man
does not need
> your 'false' embellishments. The true lesson of life that is laid out by God
is to over
> come the need for power. Life is a struggle for power this is the lesson. The
lesson
> that your name sake learned so long ago. Unfortuately, 'another' was
sacraficed to get
> his sorry ass out of the kingdom.
The Lord thinks we need True Mystics to teach us Mysticism. IMHO.
>
> > That is not a "selfish," desire. It is antithetical to
> > selfish. I am surprised you have come to such a ridiculous conclusion,
which
> > has nothing to do with the truth at all.
>
> Nothing to do with 'your' truth is that not what you meant to say? You have
deceived
> even yourself. I am not deceived.
You are welcome to form any opinion you want.
>
> > >Goodness, kindness, and compassion are
> > > not words to be repeated in 'empty mantras', they are God's will to be
'done' by
> > > those that serve the one true God.
> >
> > If we are going to help others, then first we must become spritually wealthy
> > enough to help others. If we are spiritually destitute, then how can we
> > share any spiritual wealth with others?
>
> Spirituality is not measured in wealth. It is measured by emptiness of self.
Yes, but if we are "empty," of ego, then we will have the spiritual wealth.
It is the same.
>
> > Also, how can we know what God's will is?
>
> Yes, how can we know this? And yet you claim to be this will incarnate.
We can know it by following the True Masters and reaching the stages beyond
mind and matter.
>
> > We have to reach a high level of
> > consciousness, before we can even know what his will is.
>
> No. The high level of conciousness gives us the ability to know when we are
implementing
> 'our' will and 'not' the Lord's.
This happens at lower stages, when we reach higher, than we can get his will
unfiltered.
It is what makes us sensitive to the evil
deeds of men
> so that we may know when to apply correction. You see Michael, correction is
'accepted'
> when it is based in truth and God is seen 'above' the man. A child knows its
fathers
> voice.
I agree, but we must get control of our own mind.
>
> > We might think we
> > are doing his will, but it might even be contrary to his will. We should
> > just submit ourselves to someone who is in touch with God's will,
>
> I don't know if I should laugh here or not due to the seriousness of this
delusion. Was
> it not you who preached the blind leading the blind? Jim Jones, David Karech
(sp), ....
> the list is endless and the lives that have been taken in the name of self and
vainity
> are greater. We should listen to the teachings of those we suspect are in
touch with
> God's will, agreed, however, we must discern for ourselves if these teachings
are
> genuine. This may be done by observing his treatment of those that are blind
and in
> need. It is the goal of these masters, and I include you in this list, to seek
mindless
> followers. You attack the low self esteem and confusion. Even Jesus' disciples
> questioned always. You exploit blindness.
Well, it is hard sometimes to face the truth, that we have to start with
faith, but we must be brave and face the truth, that we are a beggar before
the Lord.
>
> Gentle Peace.
Best Wishes,
>
> Tim Harris
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
sh...@my-dejanews.com
edi...@juno.com wrote:
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >In article <372E56DC...@ix.netcom.com>,
> > jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>
> >
> >He accepted mine, Jody.
>
> ...and that is at the heart
> of your delusion.
Do you think many believe that you know more about "my," meditation that I do,
Bruce?
>
> >I paid them in the form of love, devotion,
> >meditation, etc., etc....
> >
> ...and not being able to
> face the absence of any
> actual results, you've
> invented some.
Again, this author insinuates that he knows more about "my," meditation that I
do. Amazing!
I personally think we need to be concerned about our own spiritual access to
the Lord. If we don't have it, then we need to get initiated by a Living
Master, and work hard to achieve that. Our soul will never be happy until it
regains access to the Creator.
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> [snip]
>
> __________________________________________________
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
>
> m(_ _)m
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Bruce Morgen
>In article <372f0ab...@news.pond.com>,
> edi...@juno.com wrote:
>> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>> >In article <372E56DC...@ix.netcom.com>,
>> > jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> >> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> [snip]
>> >>
>> >> > I didn't say it was "proof." I'm saying I have paid my dues, that's all.
>> >>
>> >> God does not accept dues.
>> >
>> >He accepted mine, Jody.
>>
>> ...and that is at the heart
>> of your delusion.
>
>Do you think many believe that you know more about "my," meditation that I do,
>Bruce?
I honestly don't know,
Michaelji, nor does it
concern me -- bread on
the waters is all it is,
consideration and/or
dismissal is at the
reader's option.
>>
>> >I paid them in the form of love, devotion,
>> >meditation, etc., etc....
>> >
>> ...and not being able to
>> face the absence of any
>> actual results, you've
>> invented some.
>
>Again, this author insinuates that he knows more about "my," meditation that I
>do. Amazing!
>
Isn't it? Astonishment
abounds!
>I personally think we need to be concerned about our own spiritual access to
>the Lord.
Not to mention our
expression of such
concern.
>If we don't have it, then we need to get initiated by a Living
>Master, and work hard to achieve that.
Get a little entertanment,
then endure the inevitable
advertising....:-)
>Our soul will never be happy until it
>regains access to the Creator.
>
Word choices aside, this is
quite true.
>Michael Martin
>A Western Mystic
>> >>
>> >> [snip]
>> >>
>> [snip]
>>
Bruce Morgen
Just pointing
Tim Harris
'You' also know who 'I am' and you 'are' afraid for you know whose 'name' is on 'my
sword' and 'you know' it is the 'name' that can not be spoken. You may martyr
yourself if you wish but the time of martyrdom has passed and this 'is, is not'
argument that you are 'trying' to engage me in is as obvious as your 'false'
teachings. Your own words have failed you. You discredit and disgrace your own
masters. 'They' have told me such.
Be afraid Michael for I do not 'claim' your powers. I do not need 'followers' or
'disciples' to provide me with my self worth. That comes from the one true living
God directly as he has shown me the mysteries of life and death and I fear neither.
I stand 'alone' at the 'four corners' of the 'throne' that you seek to 'take' from
the one true living God. I do not yeild to your 'false' authority nor, as it is
clear, can you make me yield therefore you are powerless and whatever God you
'believe' you serve is 'false' also.
I need not flex any spiritual power that I may posses beyond restricting those that
are false from aquiring access to the throne. And, before you 'boohoo' me... many
here that are known by many as the leaders have passed me. Most without engagement.
Some, I do not agree with their dogma but I accept the purity in their intention and
the sencerity of their quest. You are not one of these.
I teach not as there is no need for teaching. The law of the one true living God is
clearly written in the hearts of man and they do not need to be shown. Each man will
live and die by this law and he will be judged according to this law. It has long
been known by a 'secret order' that, once Jesus Christ was killed, that the truth
was obvious for men to see and the way to final release and escape from suffering
lay wide open and bare as the wounds on the Christ's body.
Once the 'truth' of the one true living God was out for all men to see it became
obvious to those that would trick and deceive the minds of men that they must over
come these 'simple' truths by confusing and confounding mankind with wars, poverty,
insecurity, phoney ritual, obscure teachings and information overload. Ultimately,
with the bulk of mankind in a total state of confusion and the mental darkness of
fear, these men systematically 'raped' and 'are raping' their own people to gain
more power and wealth than any man could need or spend in one life time. These will
be judged and are of no concern to you and I.
I am not God. I am not the Messiah. I am not anyone that needs to be knelt too or
suduced for favor. I am a 'just' man that has been given a 'holy task' of looking
through the rubble of this 'primative' culture for those 'soldiers of truth' that
have been overwhelmed with sorrow and fear and carry them out of their darkness. I
do not care for those of you that wish to save the world with your blubberings of
love and peace while you sit in suclusion and struggle and plot to take claim these
powers to rule man. You are false prophets that have taken the purity of the eastern
religions and added the western philosophies of greed and capitalistic war on
mankind.
Now, I run you through with the dagger of silence. I have no need for your approval
nor do I need your 'clearance' on the God given authority that I have accepted from
the one true living God. I cast you aside as there are no signs of life in your
spirit. God is assembling his army for your destruction. The 'promised one' comes
behind my efforts and then I shall appear again as the leader of the army of God. I
do not require your belief. Regardless of what you feel my authority is, you do know
that these are the signs that those that are genuine in their quest are waiting for.
The word is given and the final act of this drama is at hand. It was written long
ago and re-enforced by the many prophets since.
I was the first to come and I shall be the last to go ensuring that those that
oppress and destroy the spirit of man are left to their own devices of destruction.
Reap what you sow are my final words to you. There is work to be done and I am
wasting too much time and effort... which is the point of your dance anyway... it
should of occured to you that the genuine men and women of God could see through
your deception.
I am 'Gabriel's Horn' and I have sounded the blast that will bring to an end the
wicked ways of men so that the promised kingdom of the one true living God may at
last be realized. Prepare yourself according to 'your' way then align yourself with
truth and purity of heart and intention.
Gentle Peace.
Sri Pra Eun
Master of Truth
King of the Angels
Servant of God and Man
Protector of the Throne of God
sh...@my-dejanews.com
har...@cyberlink.bc.ca wrote:
> I know who you are Michael Martin. I hear your 'chatter' and it is
'unmistakable'.
Tim, no hard feelings, but I think perhaps it is time to end our dialogue.
My duty is to help the sincere seekers of truth. If you think you already
know the truth, then I will spend my time with others.
I read your long post, and I know that you have some very strong opinions.
Well, so do I. Let's just leave it at that.
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
> 'You' also know who 'I am' and you 'are' afraid for you know whose 'name' is
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
sh...@my-dejanews.com
edi...@juno.com wrote:
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >In article <372f0ab...@news.pond.com>,
> > edi...@juno.com wrote:
> >> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <372E56DC...@ix.netcom.com>,
> >> > jo...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >> >> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> [snip]
> >> >>
all.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >He accepted mine, Jody.
> >>
> >> ...and that is at the heart
> >> of your delusion.
> >
> >Do you think many believe that you know more about "my," meditation that I
do,
> >Bruce?
>
> I honestly don't know,
> Michaelji, nor does it
> concern me -- bread on
> the waters is all it is,
> consideration and/or
> dismissal is at the
> reader's option.
I would suggest you put the "bread," of truth on the waters, and not the bread
of conjecture. You might be sowing some bad seeds, and the sower will have to
reap his crop. It might concern you then.
> >>
> >> >I paid them in the form of love, devotion,
> >> >meditation, etc., etc....
> >> >
> >> ...and not being able to
> >> face the absence of any
> >> actual results, you've
> >> invented some.
> >
> >Again, this author insinuates that he knows more about "my," meditation that
I
> >do. Amazing!
> >
> Isn't it? Astonishment
> abounds!
It is your unmitigated gall that astonishes.
>
> >I personally think we need to be concerned about our own spiritual access to
> >the Lord.
>
> Not to mention our
> expression of such
> concern.
Yes, we need to express that concern to the True Master.
>
> >If we don't have it, then we need to get initiated by a Living
> >Master, and work hard to achieve that.
>
> Get a little entertanment,
> then endure the inevitable
> advertising....:-)
What are your posts? Inevitable conjectures, which have nothing to do with
the truth whatsoever?
>
> >Our soul will never be happy until it
> >regains access to the Creator.
> >
> Word choices aside, this is
> quite true.
Couldn't post a counterpoint could you?
>
> >Michael Martin
> >A Western Mystic
> >> >>
> >> >> [snip]
> >> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> Bruce Morgen
> Just pointing
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
> __________________________________________________
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
>
> m(_ _)m
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Tim Harris
shorts Michael. Play with fire... get burnt.
Regards.
Tim Harris
Tim Harris
Bruce Morgen wrote:
> >You might be sowing some bad seeds, and the sower will have to
> >reap his crop. It might concern you then.
>
> This is just a weasel-worded
> threat, something that might
> work on the gullible and/or
> fearful.
ROTFL.... hahahaaha... funny... You saw the way he took that bait and bolted too eh?
Hahahaha...
Now is the time of the black heart for Mr. Michael Martin.... will he get the
joke....?? And more importantly... can he tell me that I am the man??? Hahahaha....
forgive me Brother Michael. I do love the way you get angry when some one tossles
your hair.
Gentle Peace my friends... sometimes you all take your selves a 'little' too
seriously. God's word does not need defence.... offer none. I respect you all as
True Perfect Masters. Let us get to the meat of what we are talking about and see if
we can find some 'real' solutions that can translate into some 'real' results in our
lives. Let us find the meaning of peace and then forgive ourselves and each other.
Can it be that simple? Let's be the 'cure'. Stand and be counted for God what ever
you believe him to be. Peace my brothers. The world is waiting for use to decide...
who wins? Let us tell them that 'we' win. Let us put down our 'weapons of defence'
and start reaching for the stars.
Gentle Peace.
Tim Harris
Roger Isaacs
> Roger wrote:
> > In January you said the Supreme Being told you that the Broncos would be
> > beaten in the Super Bowl, but in fact they won. From this it would seem that
> > even your claim to having a connection to the supreme being is false.
> Michael Martin wrote:
> Yes, that was something unimportant. I was separating the wheat from the
> chaff.
Sir, what you did was to unequivocally declare yourself to be chaff. And now
you do so again by suggesting that a lie is OK if it is done to "separate the
wheat from the chaff".
> Roger wrote:
> > A man, blind since birth, may speak with passion & conviction about what he
> > imagines to be sight. However, a close examination of his descriptions will
> > show them to be inconsistent.
> Michael Martin wrote:
> My teachings are not inconsistent.
But what does the record show? At the start of this thread you declared that
"there are two Mystic Adepts in this world with access to the Supreme Being":
Michael Martin wrote:
>According to my meditation, and I've done 34 years of it,
>there are two Mystic Adepts in this world, with access to
> the Supreme Being. I know there are some who will disagree
> with me, but I'm expressing my own opinion here. The two
> Mystic Adepts are Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, and yours truly.
But then in a post from this thread just a couple of days ago you wrote:
> There might be any number of Mystic Adepts, and I never put a figure on them.
> ... There could be many with such access.
Ok, so this entire thread is about your vision that there are "TWO mystic
Adepts in this world". BUT, later you say "There might be any number of
Mystic Adepts, and I never put a figure on them."
And these are the words of a man who claims to be omniscient?
Roger
www.newu.org
Bruce Morgen
Nothing I post is conjectural,
it is observational -- it may
be incorrect, but not because
it is guesswork.
>You might be sowing some bad seeds, and the sower will have to
>reap his crop. It might concern you then.
This is just a weasel-worded
threat, something that might
work on the gullible and/or
fearful.
>> >>
>> >> >I paid them in the form of love, devotion,
>> >> >meditation, etc., etc....
>> >> >
>> >> ...and not being able to
>> >> face the absence of any
>> >> actual results, you've
>> >> invented some.
>> >
>> >Again, this author insinuates that he knows more about "my," meditation that
>I
>> >do. Amazing!
>> >
>> Isn't it? Astonishment
>> abounds!
>
>It is your unmitigated gall that astonishes.
OK, some of us are more
easily surprised than
others I suppose.
>>
>> >I personally think we need to be concerned about our own spiritual access to
>> >the Lord.
>>
>> Not to mention our
>> expression of such
>> concern.
>
>Yes, we need to express that concern to the True Master.
Advertisement noted.
>>
>> >If we don't have it, then we need to get initiated by a Living
>> >Master, and work hard to achieve that.
>>
>> Get a little entertainment,
>> then endure the inevitable
>> advertising....:-)
>
>What are your posts?
They are words, all else is
in the eye of the beholder.
>Inevitable conjectures, which have nothing to do with
>the truth whatsoever?
>
Mirror making you uncomfortable
again, brother?
>>
>> >Our soul will never be happy until it
>> >regains access to the Creator.
>> >
>> Word choices aside, this is
>> quite true.
>
>Couldn't post a counterpoint could you?
When there's no essential
disagreement, why would I do
that? I could nitpick your
terminology if you insist.
>>
>> >Michael Martin
>> >A Western Mystic
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [snip]
>> >> >>
>> >> [snip]
>> >>
>> Bruce Morgen
>> Just pointing
>
>Michael Martin
>A Western Mystic
>>
Bruce Morgen
Still just pointing
sh...@my-dejanews.com
edi...@juno.com wrote:
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >In article <372f5c6c...@news.pond.com>,
> > edi...@juno.com wrote:
> >> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >>
> >> I honestly don't know,
> >> Michaelji, nor does it
> >> concern me -- bread on
> >> the waters is all it is,
> >> consideration and/or
> >> dismissal is at the
> >> reader's option.
> >
> >I would suggest you put the "bread," of truth on the waters, and not the
bread
> >of conjecture.
>
> Nothing I post is conjectural,
> it is observational -- it may
> be incorrect, but not because
> it is guesswork.I would suggest you put the "bread," of truth on the waters,
and not the
bread
> >of conjecture.
Either you knew or you didn't know. If you didn't know the truth, then to me,
it amounts to guesswork. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what it appears
to me.
If it was guess work, then again IMHO, you might be sowing some bad seeds, and
the sower will have to reap his crop. It might concern you then.
>
> This is just a weasel-worded
> threat, something that might
> work on the gullible and/or
> fearful.
You know, Bruce, in case you don't know it, many Saints since time immemorial
have written in gaurded language, parables, etc., etc... Your charge of
weasel-wording just is evidence that I am one of them.
Advice of Saints might work on the gullible or fearful. Those who reject the
Saints will repent, no matter how gullible or fearful they might be, now.
Why charge the Saints with threats, when all they are trying to do is to
guide us to the truth? <SNIP>
> >> Isn't it? Astonishment
> >> abounds!
> >
> >It is your unmitigated gall that astonishes.
>
> OK, some of us are more
> easily surprised than
> others I suppose.
Yes, some of us are surprised at the unmitigated gall of others.
> >>
<SNIP>
> >> Not to mention our
> >> expression of such
> >> concern.
> >
> >Yes, we need to express that concern to the True Master.
>
> Advertisement noted.
Just giving out the truth. Call it what you like. I don't charge a penny for
anything. Why don't write that it is an altruistic advertisement?
> >>
<SNIP>
> >> Get a little entertainment,
> >> then endure the inevitable
> >> advertising....:-)
> >
> >What are your posts?
>
> They are words, all else is
> in the eye of the beholder.
Why are yours words, but mine is an advertisement? You have now gone to the
extent of urging people to view your website. It seems that is more an
advertisement than my replies to discussions.
>
> >Inevitable conjectures, which have nothing to do with
> >the truth whatsoever?
> >
> Mirror making you uncomfortable
> again, brother?
It is not a mirror to me, Bruce. It is an impostor of a mirror to me, and
should be disregarded, as something which reflects the truth.
> >>
<SNIP>
> >> Word choices aside, this is
> >> quite true.
> >
> >Couldn't post a counterpoint could you?
>
> When there's no essential
> disagreement, why would I do
> that? I could nitpick your
> terminology if you insist.
> >>
<SNIP>
> >> Bruce Morgen
> >> Just pointing
> >
> >Michael Martin
> >A Western Mystic
> >>
> Bruce Morgen
> Still just pointing
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
> __________________________________________________
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
>
> m(_ _)m
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Bruce Morgen
My observations as to the
nature and "success" of
your so-called "meditation"
are based on the principle
of "By their fruits." The
reason I must allow for the
possibility of error is
that there is a remote
chance that your postings
are simply a long-term joke
rather than the product of
a well-intentioned but very
deluded mind.
>If it was guess work, then again IMHO, you might be sowing some bad seeds, and
>the sower will have to reap his crop. It might concern you then.
I remain unconcerned.
>>
>> This is just a weasel-worded
>> threat, something that might
>> work on the gullible and/or
>> fearful.
>
>You know, Bruce, in case you don't know it, many Saints since time immemorial
>have written in gaurded language, parables, etc., etc... Your charge of
>weasel-wording just is evidence that I am one of them.
>
The logic of this escapes
me. There is no reason to
use "guarded language,
parables, etc." on Usenet
-- moreover, once you have
publicly declared yourself
one of two Param Sant Sat
Gurus on the planet, why
bother attempting subtle
use of language, which
you're obviously not adept
at anyway?
>Advice of Saints might work on the gullible or fearful. Those who reject the
>Saints will repent, no matter how gullible or fearful they might be, now.
>Why charge the Saints with threats, when all they are trying to do is to
>guide us to the truth? <SNIP>
There are no "Saints" who
are party to this thread --
you are once again trying
to sneak your absurd claim
of Sainthood into the
conversation when that
claim is not accepted by
anyone else except for
(recently silent) George
and (never heard from) Ted.
>
>> >> Isn't it? Astonishment
>> >> abounds!
>> >
>> >It is your unmitigated gall that astonishes.
>>
>> OK, some of us are more
>> easily surprised than
>> others I suppose.
>
>Yes, some of us are surprised at the unmitigated gall of others.
One would think you'd be
used to it by now -- no
worries, I have no plans
to mitigate my "gall," so
you'll have ample
opportunity to adapt at
your own pace.
>> >>
><SNIP>
>
>> >> Not to mention our
>> >> expression of such
>> >> concern.
>> >
>> >Yes, we need to express that concern to the True Master.
>>
>> Advertisement noted.
>
>Just giving out the truth. Call it what you like.
OK, it's advertising.
>I don't charge a penny for
>anything. Why don't write that it is an altruistic advertisement?
OK: Michaelji is not in it
for money. In his own mind,
his activity is altruistic.
>> >>
><SNIP>
>
>> >> Get a little entertainment,
>> >> then endure the inevitable
>> >> advertising....:-)
>> >
>> >What are your posts?
>>
>> They are words, all else is
>> in the eye of the beholder.
>
>Why are yours words, but mine is an advertisement?
Because I do not offer the
services of initiation and
instruction in exchange for
bhakti (fealty/ devotion).
>You have now gone to the
>extent of urging people to view your website.
Only if they are interested
in looking into the nature
of the "mirror" some of my
posts represent. There is
no attempt to build traffic
or enlist devotees.
>It seems that is more an
>advertisement than my replies to discussions.
OK, you are free to call them
whatever you want.
>>
>> >Inevitable conjectures, which have nothing to do with
>> >the truth whatsoever?
>> >
>> Mirror making you uncomfortable
>> again, brother?
>
>It is not a mirror to me, Bruce. It is an impostor of a mirror to me, and
>should be disregarded, as something which reflects the truth.
OK, feel free to disregard
it!
>> >>
><SNIP>
>
>> >> Word choices aside, this is
>> >> quite true.
>> >
>> >Couldn't post a counterpoint could you?
>>
>> When there's no essential
>> disagreement, why would I do
>> that? I could nitpick your
>> terminology if you insist.
>> >>
><SNIP>
>
>> >> Bruce Morgen
>> >> Just pointing
>> >
>> >Michael Martin
>> >A Western Mystic
>> >>
>> Bruce Morgen
>> Still just pointing
>
>Michael Martin
>A Western Mystic
>>
Bruce Morgen
Patiently pointing
sh...@my-dejanews.com
edi...@juno.com wrote:
> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >In article <372fc3f6...@news.pond.com>,
> > edi...@juno.com wrote:
> >> sh...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>
> >> Nothing I post is conjectural,
> >> it is observational -- it may
> >> be incorrect, but not because
> >> it is guesswork.I would suggest you put the "bread," of truth on the
waters,
> >and not the
> >bread
> >> >of conjecture.
> >
> >Either you knew or you didn't know. If you didn't know the truth, then to
me,
> >it amounts to guesswork. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what it
appears
> >to me.
> >
> My observations as to the
> nature and "success" of
> your so-called "meditation"
> are based on the principle
> of "By their fruits."
The "fruits," are that I am sharing my spiritual wealth with others.
The
> reason I must allow for the
> possibility of error is
> that there is a remote
> chance that your postings
> are simply a long-term joke
> rather than the product of
> a well-intentioned but very
> deluded mind.
How about the possibility that you know nothing about my spiritual wealth?
>
> >If it was guess work, then again IMHO, you might be sowing some bad seeds,
and
> >the sower will have to reap his crop. It might concern you then.
>
> I remain unconcerned.
Are you reaping the crop yet?
> >>
> >> This is just a weasel-worded
> >> threat, something that might
> >> work on the gullible and/or
> >> fearful.
> >
> >You know, Bruce, in case you don't know it, many Saints, since time
immemorial,
> >have written in guarded language, parables, etc., etc... Your charge of
> >weasel-wording just is evidence that I am one of them.
> >
> The logic of this escapes
> me.
Your logic is failing you then, Bruce.
There is no reason to
> use "guarded language,
> parables, etc." on Usenet
Why doesn't the same reason exist now as it did then?
> -- moreover, once you have
> publicly declared yourself
> one of two Param Sant Sat
> Gurus on the planet, why
> bother attempting subtle
> use of language, which
> you're obviously not adept
> at anyway?
Saints have their reasons for whatever they say or do. Certain things have to
be said in a certain way.
>
> >Advice of Saints might work on the gullible or fearful. Those who reject the
> >Saints will repent, no matter how non-gullible or non-fearful they might be,
now.
> >Why charge the Saints with threats, when all they are trying to do is to
> >guide us to the truth?
<SNIP>
>
> There are no "Saints" who
> are party to this thread --
> you are once again trying
> to sneak your absurd claim
> of Sainthood into the
> conversation when that
> claim is not accepted by
> anyone else except for
> (recently silent) George
> and (never heard from) Ted.
This is just your opinion.
> >
<SNIP>
> >> OK, some of us are more
> >> easily surprised than
> >> others I suppose.
> >
> >Yes, some of us are surprised at the unmitigated gall of others.
>
> One would think you'd be
> used to it by now -- no
> worries, I have no plans
> to mitigate my "gall," so
> you'll have ample
> opportunity to adapt at
> your own pace.
Thanks for the opportunity.
> ><SNIP>
> >
> >> >
> >> >Yes, we need to express that concern to the True Master.
> >>
> >> Advertisement noted.
> >
> >Just giving out the truth. Call it what you like.
>
> OK, it's advertising.
What do you call your website?
>
> >I don't charge a penny for
> >anything. Why don't write that it is an altruistic advertisement?
>
> OK: Michaelji is not in it
> for money. In his own mind,
> his activity is altruistic.
Thank you.
> ><SNIP>
> >
> >> >
> >> >What are your posts?
> >>
> >> They are words, all else is
> >> in the eye of the beholder.
> >
> >Why are yours words, but mine is an advertisement?
>
> Because I do not offer the
> services of initiation and
> instruction in exchange for
> bhakti (fealty/ devotion).
Then all Saints, Mystics, and Mahatmas have been guilty of advertising, at
least according to Bruce Morgen.
>
> >You have now gone to the
> >extent of urging people to view your website.
>
> Only if they are interested
> in looking into the nature
> of the "mirror" some of my
> posts represent. There is
> no attempt to build traffic
> or enlist devotees.
Yeah, right.
>
> >It seems that is more an
> >advertisement than my replies to discussions.
>
> OK, you are free to call them
> whatever you want.
Thank you.
> >>
<SNIP>
> >> >
> >> Mirror making you uncomfortable
> >> again, brother?
> >
> >It is not a mirror to me, Bruce. It is an impostor of a mirror to me, and
> >should be disregarded, as something which reflects the truth.
>
> OK, feel free to disregard
> it!
All right, but why do you keep throwing it up in people's faces?
> ><SNIP>
> >
> >>
> >> When there's no essential
> >> disagreement, why would I do
> >> that? I could nitpick your
> >> terminology if you insist.
> ><SNIP>
> >
> >> >> Bruce Morgen
> >> >> Just pointing
> >> >
> >> >Michael Martin
> >> >A Western Mystic
> >> >>
> >> Bruce Morgen
> >> Still just pointing
> >
> >Michael Martin
> >A Western Mystic
> >>
> Bruce Morgen
> Patiently pointing
Michael Martin
A Western Mystic
>
> __________________________________________________
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
>
> m(_ _)m
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Roger Isaacs
MM wrote:
> >I don't charge a penny for
> >anything. Why don't write that it is an altruistic advertisement?
Bruce Morgen wrote:
> OK: Michaelji is not in it
> for money. In his own mind,
> his activity is altruistic.
In Michael's mind his actions might be altruistic. But doesn't his brand of
altruism fail to live up to the word? Altruism: unselfish concern for the
welfare of _others_.
When Michael proclaims himself to be the True Guru, and omniscient, and
enlightened, and his path alone leads to God... Who is it that stands to
benefit from these proclaimations? Don't these proclaimations show concern for
_his_ welfare and NOT the welfare of others?
His attitude shows a lack of concern for welfare of others because each one
of these claims promotes conflict with those on different paths, or those who
have a different perspective, or for that matter, he even promotes conflict
with other Shabd practitioners by suggesting that he alone ( with the
exception of someone else ) is a "True Guru".
Roger
www.newu.org
Bruce Morgen
You're offering funny
money, the fruits of a
turbocharged imagination.
>
> The
>> reason I must allow for the
>> possibility of error is
>> that there is a remote
>> chance that your postings
>> are simply a long-term joke
>> rather than the product of
>> a well-intentioned but very
>> deluded mind.
>
>How about the possibility that you know nothing about my spiritual wealth?
There's no such thing as
"spiritual wealth," there
is nothing to be accrued.
>>
>> >If it was guess work, then again IMHO, you might be sowing some bad seeds,
>and
>> >the sower will have to reap his crop. It might concern you then.
>>
>> I remain unconcerned.
>
>Are you reaping the crop yet?
Apparently not, since I'm
unconcerned. I suspect
this "crop" is in the same
category as the "severe
winter" you predicted and
the incident of divine
mercy you know nothing
about.
>> >>
>> >> This is just a weasel-worded
>> >> threat, something that might
>> >> work on the gullible and/or
>> >> fearful.
>> >
>> >You know, Bruce, in case you don't know it, many Saints, since time
>immemorial,
>> >have written in guarded language, parables, etc., etc... Your charge of
>> >weasel-wording just is evidence that I am one of them.
>> >
>> The logic of this escapes
>> me.
>
>Your logic is failing you then, Bruce.
>
> There is no reason to
>> use "guarded language,
>> parables, etc." on Usenet
>
>Why doesn't the same reason exist now as it did then?
The reason for "guarded language,
parables, etc." is so the guru
can do his work in a particular
cultural and/or political
environment. The environment of
Usenet is one of almost
absolutely free speech, so there
is no reason to use weasel-
wording at all.
>
>> -- moreover, once you have
>> publicly declared yourself
>> one of two Param Sant Sat
>> Gurus on the planet, why
>> bother attempting subtle
>> use of language, which
>> you're obviously not adept
>> at anyway?
>
>Saints have their reasons for whatever they say or do. Certain things have to
>be said in a certain way.
Yes, so the words can
superficially resemble those of
"Saints" and fool the gullible
reader into believing the writer
is one of those "Saints."
>>
>> >Advice of Saints might work on the gullible or fearful. Those who reject the
>> >Saints will repent, no matter how non-gullible or non-fearful they might be,
>now.
>> >Why charge the Saints with threats, when all they are trying to do is to
>> >guide us to the truth?
>
><SNIP>
>>
>> There are no "Saints" who
>> are party to this thread --
>> you are once again trying
>> to sneak your absurd claim
>> of Sainthood into the
>> conversation when that
>> claim is not accepted by
>> anyone else except for
>> (recently silent) George
>> and (never heard from) Ted.
>
>This is just your opinion.
No, that is a fact, you are
not regarded as a "Saint"
by any active participant
in these newsgroups, so
your constant references to
what "Saints" do are just a
way to inflate a self-image
which virtually nobody has
bought into.
>> >
><SNIP>
>
>> >> OK, some of us are more
>> >> easily surprised than
>> >> others I suppose.
>> >
>> >Yes, some of us are surprised at the unmitigated gall of others.
>>
>> One would think you'd be
>> used to it by now -- no
>> worries, I have no plans
>> to mitigate my "gall," so
>> you'll have ample
>> opportunity to adapt at
>> your own pace.
>
>Thanks for the opportunity.
>
You're welcome.
>> ><SNIP>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Yes, we need to express that concern to the True Master.
>> >>
>> >> Advertisement noted.
>> >
>> >Just giving out the truth. Call it what you like.
>>
>> OK, it's advertising.
>
>What do you call your website?
A website.
>>
>> >I don't charge a penny for
>> >anything. Why don't write that it is an altruistic advertisement?
>>
>> OK: Michaelji is not in it
>> for money. In his own mind,
>> his activity is altruistic.
>
>Thank you.
>
You're welcome.
>> ><SNIP>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >What are your posts?
>> >>
>> >> They are words, all else is
>> >> in the eye of the beholder.
>> >
>> >Why are yours words, but mine is an advertisement?
>>
>> Because I do not offer the
>> services of initiation and
>> instruction in exchange for
>> bhakti (fealty/ devotion).
>
>Then all Saints, Mystics, and Mahatmas have been guilty of advertising, at
>least according to Bruce Morgen.
>
No, "all Saints, Mystics, and
Mahatmas" have not gone about
declaring themselves as such.
Gandhi did not name himself
"Mahatma," and Jesus did not
call himself "Christ" -- they
let others and the verdict(s)
of history supply the
honorifics. (S)he who
advertises her/himself as a
"Saint" had better be ready
to back it up in the same
fora in which (s)he advertises
it or be dismissed as yet
another in the neverending
onslaught of wannabees.
>>
>> >You have now gone to the
>> >extent of urging people to view your website.
>>
>> Only if they are interested
>> in looking into the nature
>> of the "mirror" some of my
>> posts represent. There is
>> no attempt to build traffic
>> or enlist devotees.
>
>Yeah, right.
Sarcasm noted, statement
still stands -- no
satsang, no devotees, no
instruction, nothing
offered other than
friendship and dialogue.
>>
>> >It seems that is more an
>> >advertisement than my replies to discussions.
>>
>> OK, you are free to call them
>> whatever you want.
>
>Thank you.
You're welcome.
>> >>
><SNIP>
>> >> >
>> >> Mirror making you uncomfortable
>> >> again, brother?
>> >
>> >It is not a mirror to me, Bruce. It is an impostor of a mirror to me, and
>> >should be disregarded, as something which reflects the truth.
>>
>> OK, feel free to disregard
>> it!
>
>All right, but why do you keep throwing it up in people's faces?
>
Just noting that the mirror's
up -- the person's own words
are the reflection. Nothing
is "in people's faces" unless
they perceive is as such.
>> ><SNIP>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> When there's no essential
>> >> disagreement, why would I do
>> >> that? I could nitpick your
>> >> terminology if you insist.
>
>> ><SNIP>
>> >
>> >> >> Bruce Morgen
>> >> >> Just pointing
>> >> >
>> >> >Michael Martin
>> >> >A Western Mystic
>> >> >>
>> >> Bruce Morgen
>> >> Still just pointing
>> >
>> >Michael Martin
>> >A Western Mystic
>> >>
>> Bruce Morgen
>> Patiently pointing
>
>Michael Martin
>A Western Mystic
>>
Bruce Morgen
Noting when the mirror's up