: [[[Have you actually read the original JAMA article written by Chopra,
: Sharma and Triguna? While the article was long on claims and short on
: scientific research, it presented the basics of the ayurveda theory. Not
: only did JAMA attack Chopra et al, but they attacked the theory as being
: invalid without saying *why* it had to be invalid. In fact, much of
: ayurveda is formalized common sense. What outrageous claims were made in
: the orginal JAMA article that you found so offensive?]]]

: Yes, Lawson. I've read it. I have a research file in my newsroom two
: inches thick on Deepak Chopra, not counting a pile of his books, audio and
: video tapes.

: The guy's a fucking crackpot. The theory is invalid because it relies on
: religious miracles and prayer to heal illness. It reject materialism and
: causality. It postulates impossible psychic forces. It is no different
: from quack Christian fundamentalist faith healing. It advocates
: levitation, yogic flying, and a host of demonstrably useless treatments
: for the diseases it calims to be able to treat: aroma threrapy, massage,
: vegetable diets, herbs... etc. It's a wicked and cruel hoax on people who
: are seriously ill. It is health care fraud.

: [[[Aside from the claim that pulse diagnosis works (and there are
: perfectly
: plausible explanations available in our current theories of the body to
: explain at least *some* of what ayurveda says about pulse diagnosis),]]]

: I read your examples of plausible hypotheses. Are you mad? What possible
: mediation mechanisms could transfer information about cancer of the
: esophagus to detectable and distinguishable rhythms or pressures in the
: pulse of incredibly varied hosts? It is no more plausible than analysis of
: toenail clippings. Get this Triguna to do some controlled blind readings,
: supervised by real scientists and doctors, and it'd be curtains for the
: guy in twenty minutes. While we're at it, let's videotape his miserable
: failures and televise them live. Whattya say? Think he'd go for it? "Oh,
: no, no, no, that would not do. Because, you see, consciousness is very,
: very big part of diagnosis, and such artificial test atmosphere would
: disturb  process." Geez, how fucking convenient for you, Triguna. But, you
: have an honest face. So. I guess I should just take your word for it.
: Right?
:  
: [[[What was so ridiculous about the claims made in the original JAMA
: article
: by Chopra and company?]]]

: I outlined them above. When I get home from vacation, I'll be happy to
: quote you exact sentences.

: [[[Er, you DID read the article, right? Not just Skolnick's expose?]]]

: Er, yeah, I did. I read the whole exchange in all of its excruciating
: detail; as well as about a 200-page Nexis Omni search, three of his books,
: and hours of tape, including a half-hour taped direct interview with
: Chopra by one of my reporters. Conclusion? He's a typical low-level, dumb,
: crackpot, faith-healing, dishonest, money-grubbing bullshit artist.

: [[[For JAMA to accept an article for publication because they wanted to
: hear
: more about ayurveda and then to liken the principle diagnostic tool of
: ayurveda to palm reading is NOT "fair play."]]]

: But it's true. Truth is fair, like it or lump it.

: [[[It would have been sufficient to simply say that there is no scientific
: research on the subject.]]]

: Of faith-healing and yogic flying? More like, "there is no scientific
: premise to be tested or researched."

: [[[Criticism in science usually doesn't take the form of personal attacks
: on
: the authors of an article.]]]

: When they are health care frauds it does. But you also object to
: criticiszing the
: diagnostic claims of ayurveda. The Lawton English prescription for fair
: treatment of TM by JAMA: "Don't criticize the message. Don't criticize the
: messenger. Other than that, criticize away." Very generous of you Lawton.

: [[[I'm not sure that we are talking about the same article by Skolnick.
: Did
: you do any checking of his sources? Read any of hte articles and books
: that he quoted from?]]]

: Yes, as matter of fact, I did. They're in the file. Heavily highlighted.

: [[[The state of health care in India is bad because the nutrition is bad.
: The nutrition is bad because of over-population. Over-population in most
: 3rd World countries stems from improving infant health care while not
: changing the social attitude that huge numbers of babies are needed to
: ensure that the family will have heirs that will grow up.]]]

: The neo-colonial underdevelopment of many Third World countries is far
: more complex than you make out, but one very important component is
: illiteracy and religious obscurantism, and the various brands of
: witch-doctory practiced by local "medicine men."

: [[[Adult health care using Ayurveda isn't bad at all.]]]

: That's a fucking bold-faced lie, and you know it. Health care in India for
: adults is abyssmal.

: [[[Ayurveda doesn't deal with acute illness very well,]]]

: An understatement of enormous proportions.

: [[[but it does fine in the prevention dept.]]]

: How good is it at preventing cancer, or AIDS, or all the childhood
: diseases millions of Indian kids die from every year.
:  
: [[[(assuming good nutrition in the first place).]]]

: And we could have a ham and cheese sandwich, if we had some ham, and if we
: had some bread. Oh, did I mention cheese? If we had some cheese.

: Excuse me, I have to go sniff some nice aromas. My lumbago is acting up.

: Cheers,
: Joe

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