Gmail Calendar Documents Reader Web more »
Recently Visited Groups | Help | Sign in
Google Groups Home
Message from discussion Deductive Reasoning
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
Judy Stein  
View profile  
 More options Dec 6 1997, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
From: jst...@panix.com (Judy Stein)
Date: 1997/12/06
Subject: Re: Deductive Reasoning

In article <881379632.27...@dejanews.com>,

ma...@clear.net.nz wrote:                              
> In article <BzhUqq2Bbkn107...@panix.com>,
>   jst...@ziplink.net wrote:

> > In article <19971125081400.DAA20...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> > turquoi...@aol.com (TurquoiseB) wrote:
<snip>
> > >  Man: "He is a professor of deductive reasoning at the University."
> > >  Neighbor 2: "Deductive reasoning, what is that?"
> > >  Man: "Let me give you an example. Do you have a dog house?"
> > >  Neighbor 2: "No"
> > >  Man: "Fag."

<snip>
> > This brilliantly illustrates what I've been referring to as the
> > "anticult fallacy."  Not because *only* anticultists commit it,
> > but because anticultists are particularly prone to it.

> > (Another term for "deductive reasoning" is "critical thinking.")

> I agree that "Anticultists" are likely to have the power of critical
> thinking. This is why they are not controlled by a cult.

Mabel, it appears you have misunderstood what I wrote.  You say
you "agree" that anticultists are likely to have the power of
critical thinking, but what I'm saying is that they are likely to
be *deficient* in critical thinking.

They may not be controlled by what they *define* as a cult, but I
maintain their definition of cult is faulty *because of this
deficiency in critical thinking*.  Moreover, they often tend to
be controlled by what I'd call the *anticult cult*, again because
of this deficiency.

The "anticult cult" is more difficult to identify because it
isn't a specific group with a prominent leader; it's more a way
of thinking, a "doctrine," as it were, that is held in common by
most anticultists; the control is exercised by mutual
reinforcement rather than by a leader.

In any case, my thesis is that former members of cults turned
anticultists haven't become anticultists because they've suddenly
discovered the power of critical thinking; rather, they've just
switched the *object* of their *noncritical* thinking from the
cult to the anticult cult.  The same deficiency that made them
vulnerable to control by the cult makes them vulnerable to
control by the anticult cult, in other words.

  The first job of

> any cult is to discourage the power of critical thinking (including
> association with people who can think critically) so that the cult can
> gradually make its members totally dependent on the cult. The use of
> regular meditation sessions is a powerful tool to help establish
> repetitive patterns in the victim’s mind that the Guru, for example, is
> God incarnate and can perform miracles etc.

Well, this doesn't apply to TM; TM's meditation technique tends
to *dissolve* repetitive patterns in the mind rather than
establish them.  Nor does TM consider MMY "God incarnate."  Some
TMers do believe he can perform supernormal feats, but the whole
thesis of TM is that *anyone* can do so by developing their
consciousness to enlightenment via meditation.

In any case, beliefs per se are not important in TM, other than
the belief that doing TM is beneficial (obviously if one didn't
hold that belief, there'd be no reason to meditate; and this
belief is not so much a belief anyway, it's a matter of direct
experience of the benefits in one's life).

Theoretically, no matter what one believes, as long as one
continues to practice TM, one's consciousness will continue to
develop to enlightenment.  The process is automatic and
mechanical and is not dependent on the belief that it will work,
nor will the belief that it will *not* work keep it from working.

 Deductive reasoning is not

> just the power to think critically, but more specifically to use a "top
> down approach" to reasoning, that is, first constructing a theory and
> then using scientific tests to prove or disprove the theory. The opposite
> approach is inductive reasoning, which is first involved with making the
> tests or observations, and then constructing a theory based on the
> results of the tests. In other words, a "bottom up approach".

> I suppose I think deductively about cults because the theory that I
> established a long time ago is that cult leaders are not God-incarnate
> and do not have supernatural powers. Despite the claims of various Gurus,
> there has been no evidence produced to me so far that would disprove this
> theory.

Absence of evidence, however, is not evidence of absence.

I don't believe cult leaders or anybody else is "God incarnate"
either (although I suppose to some extent this depends on one's
definition of "God incarnate").  Even a conclusive demonstration
of an ability thought to be impossible wouldn't qualify a person
as "God incarnate."

It is my *working assumption* that human beings have potential
abilities that go way beyond what is now thought possible, and
that they can develop these abilities via certain techniques.  I
don't consider these abilities "supernatural" but rather
"supernormal," "normal" referring to what is the norm among human
beings.  I think, in other words, that such abilities are
completely natural; that they're not the norm is simply a
function of the fact that the means to develop them has not been
available for many centuries.

I recognize the burden of proof is on those who hold this working
assumption.  It can't be *disproved* as a general principle, only
in specific cases of a claim to have demonstrated such an
ability.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+     Judy Stein  *  The Author's Friend  *  jst...@ziplink.net    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.

Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
©2009 Google