Sant Thakar Singh - I Just Want Out
Ralph Steinhaus
practices of Sant Thakar Singh. Entity possession varies in its seriousness
but more than 10% of Sant Thakar Singh's initiates worldwide suffer from it.
I have sought to leave Sant Thakar Singh and follow a safer teacher of Sant
Mat but none is able to break my connection with Sant Thakar Singh and so I
am trapped. I am in a position of real suffering and many other Thakar
initiates suffer similarly.
You should know
INITIATION is IRREVERSIBLE
Initiation is a very serious choice that has many long lasting
consequences. It is not a decision that should be entered into casually but
should rather be given the most serious consideration. The choice of inner
connection to the Master can not be undone once established through the
initiation. As part of the initiation process you will form a subtle link
with the Master sometimes called receiving "the inner connection" that you
can not give up unilaterally on your own no matter how hard you try. Only by
finding yet a higher Master and taking his initiation can the bond to the
old Master be broken. In many respects the choice of taking a Master is a
more critical choice to your well-being and happiness than getting married
as a marriage can be ended in divorce but the inner link of connection to a
Master can not be broken by any efforts and endures even after death. It is
important that the person you are accepting initiation from be completely
ethical and perfect and that you be truly compatible with that person. After
initiation, you will be connected with your Master at high level inside your
consciousness. Your higher mind and soul will be blended or merged to some
extent with the Master. This is a powerful connection of great intimacy and
strength. Such connection can be a source for good where, under a perfect
Master, over time you take on some of the noble qualities and competencies
of the Master but can also be a source for evil and entity possession if the
Saint is not 100% ethical and competent. Sadly, many many too many of the
initiates of Sant Thakar Singh suffer from chronic entity possession. In
compassion and honesty this fact can not be covered up and left undisclosed.
Please be very very careful before you consider initiation. It is not
possible to reverse the choice in some cases if the Master is strong and
unethical.
AFF, the leading professional organization concerned about cults and
psychological manipulation, has been tracking Sant Thakar Singh and his
American Organization "Know Thyself as Soul". AFF is known for its
professionalism, for building its practical educational services for
families, former group members, helping professionals, educators, and young
people on a base of scholarly study and research. You can discover more
about their findings with respect to Sant Thakar Singh at
Peter Scheel
who is the safer teacher, from which you got the second initiation?
Have a nice day
Pit
Ralph Steinhaus <stein...@earthlink.net> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
1YxI7.41266$hZ.38...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Ralph Steinhaus
connection" with a Sant Mat Master is to take initiation from a higher
Master. In an effort to escape from problems/threats to health and safety I
took initiation from the following Masters in an effort to escape from the
influence of Sant Thakar:
Sant Thakar Singh (1983)
Sant Ajib Singh (1988)
Summa Ching Hai (1994)
Sant Raginder Singh (2001) (through a representative)
Honest efforts in all aspects of devotion with respect to meditation time
( tithing, vegetarian diet, etc.) were made in all cases. Beneficent
influence from these other Master's were noticed (particularly right after
initiation). I experience Sant Thakar Singh undermining and eventually
taking over connection from new Masters but some influence from the
additional Masters linger (and some consolation/comfort seems available at
their group satsangs). I have experienced the influence of the Masters other
than Sant Thakar as beneficient but insufficiently strong to break the tie
with Sant Thakar. I have not been able to break practical connection with
Sant Thakar Singh inwardly.
I do not wish to give "bad name" or impugn the reputation of Sant Thakar
Singh (who is higher and more spiritually developed that I will ever hope)
but wish only to be free of his influence and given the chance to study from
a spiritual Master that will give me a chance to progress and will offer
practical safety while doing the meditations (no chronic persistent entity
violence). I feel it is the Master's duty to provide safety while doing the
practices. Routine daily entity manipulation and poisoning is not providing
adequate safety.
I would like to find a way to escape from the influence of Sant Thakar Singh
without recrimination.
Peter Scheel
I also was initiated by an disciple of Sant Thakar Singh. Because I have had
problems with Sant Thakar Singh as my spiritual leader, I have been
initiated in 1999 by Sant Rajinder Singh. I think, that I have no problems
with entity possession. But Master Kirpal Singh has said, if you meditate
daily and try to live an ethical life, than you must get a first hand
experience of light and sound. I have meditatet for 1.5 years daily 2.5
hours. But I couldn't find any light and sound within me. I feel that Surat
Shabd Yoga is the right way for me, but I cannot say, who is the real living
Satguru. I have wrote several letters to Sant Rajinder Singh, but I have not
a got an answer direct from himself. The answers which I have got were
disappointing for me. The only Masters from which I have got an direct
answer is Michael Turner and Michael Martin. I also believe, that a true
Satguru must be able to help you with your problems.
Perhaps it is useful for you, if you go to a neurologist.
I know, when Hazur Baba Sawan Singh has died, there were built several Sant
Mat lines. There is a group in Beas, where the current Sant Mat Master is
Master Gurinder Singh.
I hope this informations are helpful for you. I whish you light and love for
your mind, heart and soul.
Pit
Ralph Steinhaus <stein...@earthlink.net> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
wLWI7.44254$hZ.41...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Jodeen
Here's a quote from Hazur Maharaj, this one taken from James Bean's
Radhasoami Reality at Yahoo Groups:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RADHASOAMI-REALITY,
that might help you with understanding why you don't believe that you are
experiencing a high amount of spiritual experiences. I considered initiating
with Sant Rajinder Singh before coming to know that I more belonged with Sri
Michael Turner, and I can say that I have no doubt about Sant Rajinder's
capacities as a fully Naam based SatGuru, just as I equally have no doubts
about Sri Michael Turner, who teaches the Path in a way more suited to my
beliefs and proclivities...with whom I simply resonate with more and is a
better choice for me if I have a choice.
Anyway, it's true one can't make decisions based on other's experiences, but I
thought if you knew that even a non-inititiate of Sant Rajinder had no doubts
about him in his Naam capacities, it might help you.
Love in Naam,
Jodeen.
http://hometown.aol.com/tigerlilyz11/myhomepage/faith.html
The quote follows:
On Meditation Practice and the Journey Back to the Supreme Father
Your progress is secret and on your onward march you are traversing
the ground before you daily, but you know little of the progress you
are making and therefore you suspect that you are not doing very well
whereas the reverse is the case. I have prayed for you to the Supreme
Father to show you more kindness than you have experienced hitherto
and hope you will soon derive some sort of contentment and internal
pleasure.....
Michael Martin
> It has been my understanding that the only way to break the "inner
> connection" with a Sant Mat Master is to take initiation from a higher
> Master. In an effort to escape from problems/threats to health and safety I
> took initiation from the following Masters in an effort to escape from the
> influence of Sant Thakar:
>
> Sant Thakar Singh (1983)
> Sant Ajib Singh (1988)
> Summa Ching Hai (1994)
> Sant Raginder Singh (2001) (through a representative)
>
> Honest efforts in all aspects of devotion with respect to meditation time
> ( tithing, vegetarian diet, etc.) were made in all cases. Beneficent
> influence from these other Master's were noticed (particularly right after
> initiation). I experience Sant Thakar Singh undermining and eventually
> taking over connection from new Masters but some influence from the
> additional Masters linger (and some consolation/comfort seems available at
> their group satsangs). I have experienced the influence of the Masters other
> than Sant Thakar as beneficient but insufficiently strong to break the tie
> with Sant Thakar. I have not been able to break practical connection with
> Sant Thakar Singh inwardly.
I've noticed that you've been initiated by four teachers. I'm not
commenting out of a desire to interfere between you and them. I will
comment for the benefit of others, who might be reading this thread.
If we have "ties," or "attachments," to others, then we have to do our
duty, also, in order to break them. My Master always mentioned that
Shabd is the only thing which really detaches us. Some superficial
attachments, we might be able to just "let go," out of sheer force of
will. Others might be deep-rooted, long-standing, and formed in
several past lifetimes. These are the attachments, which we often
can't just "let go." Only the attachment to the Shabd will help us to
let them go. Attachment to Shabd detaches us from everything of this
world.
When we get initiated, generally speaking, we might have attachments
to people, places, and things. In order to get detached from them, we
will need to concentrate the mind and soul, and put them in touch with
the Shabd. For that, we will need to practice the preliminary to
Shabd, which is the Simran. To have effective Simran, we need to have
love, and faith, in our Guru. So, there is a chain, with several
links. We can look at the chain to see what the weak links might be.
It's up to us to make a decision, what to do.
> I do not wish to give "bad name" or impugn the reputation of Sant Thakar
> Singh (who is higher and more spiritually developed that I will ever hope)
> but wish only to be free of his influence and given the chance to study from
> a spiritual Master that will give me a chance to progress and will offer
> practical safety while doing the meditations (no chronic persistent entity
> violence). I feel it is the Master's duty to provide safety while doing the
> practices. Routine daily entity manipulation and poisoning is not providing
> adequate safety.
>
> I would like to find a way to escape from the influence of Sant Thakar Singh
> without recrimination.
As I mentioned above, we have to do our duty. Sometimes, the onus is
on us. I'll just give a little example. I also don't want to comment
on Thakar Singh Ji, personally.
Suppose a man tells one man, "I hate my wife. She is not a good wife.
I want to escape from her." Then, suppose he tells someone else, "My
wife has more good qualities. She is a better wife, than I am a
husband." If the man is making such contradictory statements, then,
IMHO, it is possible that he has a subconscious attachment to the
wife. Then, as I mentioned, we have to make our own decisions. All
we can do is the best we can.
Michael
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/michaelmartinwesternsatguru
Michael Martin
> Dear Ralph,
>
> I also was initiated by an disciple of Sant Thakar Singh. Because I have had
> problems with Sant Thakar Singh as my spiritual leader, I have been
> initiated in 1999 by Sant Rajinder Singh. I think, that I have no problems
> with entity possession. But Master Kirpal Singh has said, if you meditate
> daily and try to live an ethical life, than you must get a first hand
> experience of light and sound. I have meditatet for 1.5 years daily 2.5
> hours. But I couldn't find any light and sound within me.
Hi, Peter. I will comment on Sant Mat in general. I don't want to
comment on any other teachers, personally. In order to see the light,
and/or hear the sound, we need to have concentration of mind. That is
the KEY to success. Some people have had the inner experiences, just
by being around the Master, just by an association, with him, and
without even being initiated. It is because they felt inspired by the
Master, and they loved him, you see. So, initiation is sort of a
formal term for something, which has already happened. It is sort of
like an official marriage, but the couple is already in love with each
other, if you can understand me.
Of course, the hypothetical person I discussed above, might have had a
purer mind than the average person, but I still used that hypothesis
to make a point. That incident has happened many times throughout
history. I think it might have happened with Kabir/Ramananda. Kabir
told Ramananda that he was his disciple, and Ramananda knew the truth,
which I just wrote above, so he could not deny him.
Now, many of us will have to fight with the mind for years, so we
can't give an impression, which might not be true for everyone.
Everyone has their own karmic layers, through which they have to
pierce. Each mind is different. The thing which is not different, is
the amount of concentration to withdraw and have the inner
experiences. When there is sufficient concentration, then we will
leave the body, we will see the sound, and hear the light. This
concentration can be experienced before death, or at the time of
death, but when a certain amount of concentration has been achieved,
then the sound and light must appear.
Now, getting back to what you mentioned, about not seeing the light
and sound, if we are not achieving successful concentration, then it
could be that our mind is too scattered. It could be that we do not
feel inspired by our Guru. I'm not saying that it is the Guru's
fault, necessarily. This happened with the disciples of Christ. So,
we can look at our own situation, and decide what to do. Whatever is
destined will happen.
> I feel that Surat
> Shabd Yoga is the right way for me, but I cannot say, who is the real living
> Satguru. I have wrote several letters to Sant Rajinder Singh, but I have not
> a got an answer direct from himself. The answers which I have got were
> disappointing for me. The only Masters from which I have got an direct
> answer is Michael Turner and Michael Martin. I also believe, that a true
> Satguru must be able to help you with your problems.
>
> Perhaps it is useful for you, if you go to a neurologist.
>
> I know, when Hazur Baba Sawan Singh has died, there were built several Sant
> Mat lines. There is a group in Beas, where the current Sant Mat Master is
> Master Gurinder Singh.
>
> I hope this informations are helpful for you. I whish you light and love for
> your mind, heart and soul.
>
> Pit
Best Wishes, Michael
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/michaelmartinwesternsatguru
<snip>
Ralph Steinhaus
Sincerely, Bob Steinhaus
Pit
thank you very much for your answer. It is true, I have no real believe in my own Master, because I have not
get a first hand experience and I don't know, if he is competent to guide my soul to Sach Khand. I have seen
him only one time. Why should I trust in a person, who I don't know.
The truth is, that I have no believe in any Master. If I want to believe, than I can go to church. I want to
proof the teachings of Sant Mat in my own body. I wish to leave my body while living. I think if it is true,
what Sant Mat teachers has wrote, than a Sant Satguru is able to show his disciple that he can left his
body. If any Sant Mat teacher would help me get out of my body while meditation, than I would believe him,
that he has the power to guide the soul.
Peter Scheel
thank you very much for your thoughts. 15 minutes ago I have wrote an
answer; but it doesn't appear in this NG. Perhaps you have received it as a
mail. I try to repeat it:
I really like the way of the writings of Sri Michael Turner. When I would
live in America, I think I would like to know him and to visit his Satsangs,
perhaps I would ask him for initiation. Sometimes I am able to feel the love
in his words. I have heard of many wonderful experiences of other Sant Mat
disciples, but the experience of other disciples are of no really use for
me. I have read many books of Sant Mat. And Sant Mat teachers have said,
that Surat Shabd Yoga is no way of believe, it is a science. I want to know
the truth, if there is light and sound in my body (soul) and if I am really
able to leave my body while livetime. I don't want to believe words: I want
to see it with my own (spiritual) eyes and to hear it with my own
(spiritual) ears. If a Sant Mat teacher would help me to leave my body, then
I would believe him, that he is competent. I don't want blind believing. The
rules of science are clear: If I could not get the experience of light and
sound in my own body, it is possible that the teachings are not correct for
me, when I have all done what the teacher want from me.
I think I have done my duty: Since 1999 until August 2001 I have get up at
3:00 pm every day and meditated for 2 hours. In the evening I have meditated
for 0.5 until 1 hour. I have done the vegetarien diet and I have tried to do
an ethical life.
On the one hand, I feel that Sant Mat is the right way for me. On the other
hand I cannot get any experience. That is why I sometimes fall in a great
black whole (dark side of the soul). I think, I will still meditate. But
sometimes I ask myself, how many years I must still meditate, before I may
know, that I have got the connection to a real living Satguru, or I have
waste my time with the wrong teacher. Master Kirpal has said, that the
teacher finds his disciple. I often think:
Dear living Sant Satguru, here I am, please show me your competence and I
will believe you.
Peter Scheel
About seven years I was an initiate of Master Thakar Singh. I know from a
friend of me, who is still a Satsangi of Master Thakar, that at Satsang from
Master Thakar there were strange things. One time a woman has spoken with a
very dark voice and has shout out dirty words, while Master Thakar has sang
a spiritual song. The Satsangi has said to me, this is the way that Master
Thakar clean the entity. Master uses the body of the Satsangi to help the
"dark soul" to get back to god.
At this time I didn't know, that Master Thakar is only one of several
Masters who claims to be the right successor of Master Kirpal Singh. My
thinking was so simple, that I thought there is only one true Sant Satguru
in the world and it is impossible that in a Yoga way of truth and ethical
life a Sant Satguru can say wrong words. I didn't also know about entity
possession. In the beginning I was so happy to find the sense of my life,
that I wished that my wife and my daughter would also be initiated from a
Sant Mat Master. Meanwhile I am very happy, that they have not and that they
go their own way. I think my wife has much more spiritual power than me. We
have about four times meditated together. At the third time, she has seen a
bright light. Yes, you understand, I have meditated for 1.5 years daily
about 2.5 hours, and she has got a spiritual experience after the third
time, without be initiated. It is much more strange, because she doesn't
search a way to find god. She only live her life and is satisfied. She need
no Master, she is satisfied to live a normal way without a spiritual search.
I hope you will find a true Master, who can help you with your entity
problems. If I can something do for you, please let me know.
Pit
"Ralph Steinhaus" <stein...@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:jhgJ7.46655$hZ.44...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Michael Martin
> Dear Michael,
>
> thank you very much for your answer. It is true, I have no real believe in my own Master, because I have not
> get a first hand experience and I don't know, if he is competent to guide my soul to Sach Khand. I have seen
> him only one time. Why should I trust in a person, who I don't know.
> The truth is, that I have no believe in any Master. If I want to believe, than I can go to church.
It all starts with love and faith, Pit. If we don't love the Master
anymore than we love a church, then how can we expect to make any
progress? Or, if we don't have any more love and faith in the Living
Master, than in a Past Master, then how can we expect to make any
progress?
> I want to
> proof the teachings of Sant Mat in my own body. I wish to leave my body while living. I think if it is true,
> what Sant Mat teachers has wrote, than a Sant Satguru is able to show his disciple that he can left his
> body.
The Sat Guru can show much more than that. What about the disciple?
Don't you think the disciple needs to play his part, also? The
Supreme Being has designed the journey this way, that the disciple
will bring his attention to the third eye, then he will learn about
the superiority of the Master. If the disciple hasn't reached that
point, it means that he has not become worthy of the Radiant Form of
the Master. We should be willing to do our part, and Master always
does his.
> If any Sant Mat teacher would help me get out of my body while meditation, than I would believe him,
> that he has the power to guide the soul.
>
> Have a nice day
>
> Pit
Well, Pit, if the Master were to pull a disciple up prematurely, it
could be hard on the disciple. Have you heard the analogy about
pulling a tissue out of a rose bush? If it is jerked out, then the
tissue is ripped to shreds. If the thorns are detached, one by one,
then there is no problem. The disciple should be willing to do the
meditation, which is purging the mind of worldly attachments, and
thoughts. When he is ready, then he can meet the Radiant Master
within. The disciple has to do his part, and the Master will not fail
to do his.
Have a nice day, also. Michael
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/michaelmartinwesternsatguru
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/radhasoamisatsangbeas
jody
>
> jody <jo...@kaliflower.org> wrote in message news:<B81A90DB.3D02%jo...@kaliflower.org>...
> > on 11/16/01 6:20 AM, Ralph Steinhaus wrote:
> >
> > > Your perspective is higher than mine. I only partially understand your
> > > perspective and the spiritual experience that stands behind it. Every man
> > > must speak from his own experience and I have spoken from the experience of
> > > my suffering under Sant Thakar. Spiritual powers can be used for evil as
> > > well as good. Higher (but not the highest) powers can be used to make sick
> > > as well as to cure. My experience of Sant Thakar Singh has been one of
> > > protracted artistically orchestrated suffering and persistent internal
> > > threat. I practically just want out and wish him and his organization no ill
> > > will. I wish only to be free of his negative influence which has marred 20
> > > years of my life.
> >
> > Your experience is clearly of your own making.
>
> Jody, if you bump into a "mean," individual on the street, would that
> be due to your own making? He was talking about problems with an
> "entity," I believe.
He believes that evil spirits are harassing him due to his being improperly
initiated by Thakar. This is most certainly a fantasy projection preventing
him from understanding the true nature of his problem.
> > Outside of your
> > persistent insistence that Singh is responsible for your suffering,
> > he probably has little or no idea about your existence.
>
> Have you ever heard of parental neglect? I'm not accusing Thakar
> Singh Ji, but I'm discussing a principle, here.
Bullshit. You are implying that Thakar abandoned his disciple and
therefore allowed the entity possession to occur. You're not fooling
anyone.
> If the courts expect
> parents to care for their children, don't you think Gurus should do
> the same, for their followers? Christ said, "Come to me as little
> children."
Then you believe that Thakar has committed an act of neglect, thereby
allowing poor Mr. Steinhaus to come under attack by evil spirits. Why
not just come out and say that Thakar is not a good guru and that you
are better?
> > This has nothing to do with Singh and everything to do with you.
>
> Does parental neglect have to do with children, or with the parents?
Irrelevant question.
> > > Sant Thakar, fulfill the promises made on the day of initiation (carry our
> > > souls to God/Kirpal in death) or let the people go to follow other paths and
> > > Masters. Allow the people to leave without recrimination to find something
> > > practically for their souls and rest for their hearts. Do not hold the
> > > people forcibly against their will with your strength. Live up to the noble
> > > life example of Sant Kirpal Singh. Provide practical safety for the initiate
> > > families and freedom from chronic entity assault.
> >
> > Singh has nothing to do with your 'plight' outside of being a focus of
> > blame for you.
>
> Why do you choose Mr. Steinhaus as your "focus of blame?" I think Mr.
> Steinhaus is more familiar with the case, than you, Jody.
Because it is preposterous that Mr. Steinhaus is actually under attack
by evil spirits, and much more likely that he has other problems which
he has decided to *believe* are attacks by entities.
> > Grow up and seek good psychological or psychiatric counselling. It will
> > do you a world of good once you've dropped these silly ideas of 'entity
> > possession' and the like.
>
> "Entity possession," for long terms are rare, I would say, but we can
> certainly suffer a lot, because of entities in the short term. They
> could have a powerful effect on our minds. They could teach us that
> sinning is all right. We could end up losing the human form, due to
> the sinning, so entities shouldn't be underestimated. Mr. Steinhaus
> is closer to the truth of the matter on entity possession, than you
> are, Jody, IMHO.
Ridiculous opinion, that of the NOT western world's sat guru noted.
> > > (And that is honestly how it is in my moccasins and from my suffering level
> > > of perspective)
> > >
> > > Bob Steinhaus
> >
> > Your perspective has been skewed into twisted fantasy. Get help.
>
> This arrogant reply is deplorable, IMHO. Mr. Steinhaus knows more
> about the problem, than you, Jody.
I've said the same exact thing about you for 4 years Michaelji, yet you
still don't even know you have a problem.
Peter Scheel
"Michael Martin" <sh...@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1147e4c5.01111...@posting.google.com...
> Pit <p.sc...@12move.de> wrote in message
news:<3BF5986D...@12move.de>...
> It all starts with love and faith, Pit. If we don't love the Master
> anymore than we love a church, then how can we expect to make any
> progress? Or, if we don't have any more love and faith in the Living
> Master, than in a Past Master, then how can we expect to make any
> progress?
The point is to find a honest Master. When I should have only love and faith
in a Master, and it is possible, that there are false Masters, please tell
me, should I have faith in
Master Thakar Singh, or in
Master Ajib Singh, or in
Master Ching Hai, or in
Master Gurinder Singh, or in
Master Michael Turner, or in
Master Michael Martin, or in
Master Rajinder Singh or in ......
This was the question for me, after I have lost my trust in Master Thakar
Singh. That is why, I only want to believe, what I have experienced by my
own.
I want to be true to myself. Fact is, that I have had strong mood swings,
since I have been initiated by a disciple of Master Thakar Singh in 1992.
Fact is also, that I have lost this mood swings, since I have been initiated
from Master Rajinder Singh in 1999 in Munich.
It is true, that I cannot say, whether Master Rajinder is a Satguru, because
I have no experiences while meditation. But I think his power is strong
enough to end the mood swings, which I have had.
The question is, why I have chosen Master Rajinder as my spiritual teacher.
The answer is: After I have lost my trust in Master Thakar, I have had very
precious and good conversations with disciples of Master Kirpal. I have met
Satsangis, who meditate about more than 30 years. When I have told them,
that I have no trust in Master Thakar and I have asked them who is the
current living Satguru, they have not said to me "I know, Master Rajinder is
the current living Satguru, he is the real Master". The answer was "Dear
Peter, please look into your heart and pray to the creator of all (god
father). God will help you to get in contact with the Satguru". I have seen
very much tolerance and love between disciples of Master Rajinder. This was
the reason, why I have chosen Master Rajinder as my spiritual teacher.
I think Jodeen is also a very lovely and nice person. She has not said
"Master Turner is the only one, who can help you to get a first hand
experience". She has told me her opinion in a very respectful and helpful
way.
>
> > I want to
> > proof the teachings of Sant Mat in my own body. I wish to leave my body
while living. I think if it is true,
> > what Sant Mat teachers has wrote, than a Sant Satguru is able to show
his disciple that he can left his
> > body.
>
> The Sat Guru can show much more than that. What about the disciple?
> Don't you think the disciple needs to play his part, also? The
> Supreme Being has designed the journey this way, that the disciple
> will bring his attention to the third eye, then he will learn about
> the superiority of the Master. If the disciple hasn't reached that
> point, it means that he has not become worthy of the Radiant Form of
> the Master. We should be willing to do our part, and Master always
> does his.
Excuse me, what I want to explain was, that the teacher is able to help his
disciple to get out of his body.
>
> > If any Sant Mat teacher would help me get out of my body while
meditation, than I would believe him,
> > that he has the power to guide the soul.
> >
> > Have a nice day
> >
> > Pit
>
> Well, Pit, if the Master were to pull a disciple up prematurely, it
> could be hard on the disciple. Have you heard the analogy about
> pulling a tissue out of a rose bush? If it is jerked out, then the
> tissue is ripped to shreds. If the thorns are detached, one by one,
> then there is no problem. The disciple should be willing to do the
> meditation, which is purging the mind of worldly attachments, and
> thoughts. When he is ready, then he can meet the Radiant Master
> within. The disciple has to do his part, and the Master will not fail
> to do his.
You may be right, but the main question is, how can the disciple know, which
Master of the bulk of Sant Mat Masters is the true Satguru, who live an
ethical life and can guide the soul to Sach Khand.
When I have it correctly understand, this was one of the questions of Ralph.
Best wishes for you
Pit
Michael Martin
> Michael Martin wrote:
> >
> > jody <jo...@kaliflower.org> wrote in message news:<B81A90DB.3D02%jo...@kaliflower.org>...
> > > on 11/16/01 6:20 AM, Ralph Steinhaus wrote:
<snip>
> > > Your experience is clearly of your own making.
> >
> > Jody, if you bump into a "mean," individual on the street, would that
> > be due to your own making? He was talking about problems with an
> > "entity," I believe.
>
> He believes that evil spirits are harassing him due to his being improperly
> initiated by Thakar. This is most certainly a fantasy projection preventing
> him from understanding the true nature of his problem.
Entities are more real than physical persons. I will not dismiss his
testimony as fantasy. It seems to me that you are, again, throwing
out allegations.
>
> > > Outside of your
> > > persistent insistence that Singh is responsible for your suffering,
> > > he probably has little or no idea about your existence.
> >
> > Have you ever heard of parental neglect? I'm not accusing Thakar
> > Singh Ji, but I'm discussing a principle, here.
>
> Bullshit. You are implying that Thakar abandoned his disciple and
> therefore allowed the entity possession to occur. You're not fooling
> anyone.
I'm discussing a principle, a hypothesis.
>
> > If the courts expect
> > parents to care for their children, don't you think Gurus should do
> > the same, for their followers? Christ said, "Come to me as little
> > children."
>
> Then you believe that Thakar has committed an act of neglect, thereby
> allowing poor Mr. Steinhaus to come under attack by evil spirits.
No, I'm remaining neutral on that. Please be careful with your
unrestrained allegations.
> Why
> not just come out and say that Thakar is not a good guru and that you
> are better?
I'm not passing judgment on anyone, personally.
>
> > > This has nothing to do with Singh and everything to do with you.
> >
> > Does parental neglect have to do with children, or with the parents?
>
> Irrelevant question.
We were discussing a hypothetical situation, and it is relevant.
Perhaps you would rather dodge the issue?
<snip>
> > > Singh has nothing to do with your 'plight' outside of being a focus of
> > > blame for you.
> >
> > Why do you choose Mr. Steinhaus as your "focus of blame?" I think Mr.
> > Steinhaus is more familiar with the case, than you, Jody.
>
> Because it is preposterous that Mr. Steinhaus is actually under attack
> by evil spirits, and much more likely that he has other problems which
> he has decided to *believe* are attacks by entities.
You mentioned "more likely." That means there is a possibility, that
your analysis of this is wrong. If you could be WRONG, then why don't
you be careful about posting these allegations?
>
> > > Grow up and seek good psychological or psychiatric counselling. It will
> > > do you a world of good once you've dropped these silly ideas of 'entity
> > > possession' and the like.
> >
> > "Entity possession," for long terms are rare, I would say, but we can
> > certainly suffer a lot, because of entities in the short term. They
> > could have a powerful effect on our minds. They could teach us that
> > sinning is all right. We could end up losing the human form, due to
> > the sinning, so entities shouldn't be underestimated. Mr. Steinhaus
> > is closer to the truth of the matter on entity possession, than you
> > are, Jody, IMHO.
>
> Ridiculous opinion, that of the NOT western world's sat guru noted.
I rest my case.
<snip>
> > > Your perspective has been skewed into twisted fantasy. Get help.
> >
> > This arrogant reply is deplorable, IMHO. Mr. Steinhaus knows more
> > about the problem, than you, Jody.
>
> I've said the same exact thing about you for 4 years Michaelji, yet you
> still don't even know you have a problem.
More allegations! Why don't you offer us something substantive?
Michael
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/michaelmartinwesternsatguru
jody
[snip]
> Entities are more real than physical persons.
So says the man who bets on football games with God.
> I will not dismiss his
> testimony as fantasy. It seems to me that you are, again, throwing
> out allegations.
See above.
> > > > Outside of your
> > > > persistent insistence that Singh is responsible for your suffering,
> > > > he probably has little or no idea about your existence.
> > >
> > > Have you ever heard of parental neglect? I'm not accusing Thakar
> > > Singh Ji, but I'm discussing a principle, here.
> >
> > Bullshit. You are implying that Thakar abandoned his disciple and
> > therefore allowed the entity possession to occur. You're not fooling
> > anyone.
>
> I'm discussing a principle, a hypothesis.
No, you are clearly implying that Thakar is a bad guru for allowing
Steinhaus to be possessed, and that you would be a better choice as
his guru.
> > > If the courts expect
> > > parents to care for their children, don't you think Gurus should do
> > > the same, for their followers? Christ said, "Come to me as little
> > > children."
> >
> > Then you believe that Thakar has committed an act of neglect, thereby
> > allowing poor Mr. Steinhaus to come under attack by evil spirits.
>
> No, I'm remaining neutral on that. Please be careful with your
> unrestrained allegations.
You are feigning neutrality so as to not offend Thakar's devotees,
while simultaneously critiquing his effectiveness as a guru so you
might attract some of them to your own nonexistent satsang.
> > Why
> > not just come out and say that Thakar is not a good guru and that you
> > are better?
>
> I'm not passing judgment on anyone, personally.
Steinhaus = child
Thakar = neglectful parent
I'd call that a judgment.
> > > > This has nothing to do with Singh and everything to do with you.
> > >
> > > Does parental neglect have to do with children, or with the parents?
> >
> > Irrelevant question.
>
> We were discussing a hypothetical situation, and it is relevant.
> Perhaps you would rather dodge the issue?
I could never hope to compare with you in the arena of dodging the
issue. Here you *are* the Master.
> <snip>
>
> > > > Singh has nothing to do with your 'plight' outside of being a focus of
> > > > blame for you.
> > >
> > > Why do you choose Mr. Steinhaus as your "focus of blame?" I think Mr.
> > > Steinhaus is more familiar with the case, than you, Jody.
> >
> > Because it is preposterous that Mr. Steinhaus is actually under attack
> > by evil spirits, and much more likely that he has other problems which
> > he has decided to *believe* are attacks by entities.
>
> You mentioned "more likely." That means there is a possibility, that
> your analysis of this is wrong. If you could be WRONG, then why don't
> you be careful about posting these allegations?
I never say never Michaelji, unless it's about you being the sat guru
of anything.
> > > > Grow up and seek good psychological or psychiatric counselling. It will
> > > > do you a world of good once you've dropped these silly ideas of 'entity
> > > > possession' and the like.
> > >
> > > "Entity possession," for long terms are rare, I would say, but we can
> > > certainly suffer a lot, because of entities in the short term. They
> > > could have a powerful effect on our minds. They could teach us that
> > > sinning is all right. We could end up losing the human form, due to
> > > the sinning, so entities shouldn't be underestimated. Mr. Steinhaus
> > > is closer to the truth of the matter on entity possession, than you
> > > are, Jody, IMHO.
> >
> > Ridiculous opinion, that of the NOT western world's sat guru noted.
>
> I rest my case.
No, you just threw it in the toilet.
> <snip>
>
> > > > Your perspective has been skewed into twisted fantasy. Get help.
> > >
> > > This arrogant reply is deplorable, IMHO. Mr. Steinhaus knows more
> > > about the problem, than you, Jody.
> >
> > I've said the same exact thing about you for 4 years Michaelji, yet you
> > still don't even know you have a problem.
>
> More allegations! Why don't you offer us something substantive?
You're all the proof I need.
Michael Martin
<snipped a lot of allegations>
If entities exist, then we would be wise to seek a True Master.
That's logical thinking. The Astral World is much more populated than
even this world, and this world has more than 6 Billion people. All
the astral beings are entities. Some are good, and some have bad
intentions.
Michael
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/michaelmartinwesternsatguru
alexe...@gmail.com
There are documentary proves that Sant Rajinder Singh, Sant Ajaib Singh, Sant Thakar Singh are false successors of Kirpal Singh and are not True Supreme Masters.
http://www.kirpalsingh-falsesuccessors.org/
среда, 14 ноября 2001 г., 12:35:48 UTC-5 пользователь Ralph Steinhaus написал:
airm...@gmail.com
sgag...@gmail.com
sbci...@gmail.com
What you say is not true. All this stuff about subtle unrakabkle bons and getting a higher initiation is totally in your mind. You are obsessed with it and with yourself and with thinking and being afraid of parts of yorself without knowing in the slightest how to reclaim that energy.
Thakar was an asshole and a fraud. Stop thinking like this.
sbci...@gmail.com
mkmis...@gmail.com
Even when I slacked off on my meditations for years at a time, I was still connected enough to be tuned in to the presence that has been saving my heart and soul continually at every moment as long as my intentions were pure and my heart was genuinely longing for the greatest love and peace and all that encompasses the inner realm at it's highest level.
Keep the Simran and the light and sound will cycle you upward. Cry for God and surrender to humility and do whatever it takes to allow the connection to pull you into the higher, safer realms of consciousness. Try praying too. Sometimes that helps the overwhelmed mind. Maybe read some of the teachings to give you better insight and hope.
psychicg...@gmail.com
The solution to overcoming these beings for good is the evolution of your consciousness. Consciousness Evolution will free you from The Matrix, the psychic prison made of invalid beliefs that Humanity has been trapped in for 6,000 years, and help you return to your Natural State. The information you can use to learn how to evolve your consciousness is in the links below.
*** Understanding and Mechanics for Consciousness Evolution
*** Immunity - Freedom from all emotional pain
*** The source of all the worlds problems - Demons/Archons/Parasites
*** Develop abilities such as Wipes - the ability to wipe thoughts from your head
Psychic Gear Drops
https://awakenedsoul15.tumblr.com
https://psychicgeardrop15.tumblr.com
healing...@gmail.com
Let the loving be your guide. Where is he loving? Go with the group with teh most loving. Even if outwardly they may appear as amateurs, it's teh inner which counts, The love is where you ae going Home to.
healing...@gmail.com
The outer form of a group can always be improved. So what I look for is the loving. If the group has demonstrations of loving, I stick with it until I find a group with more frequent and bigger demonstrations of loving.
jamie...@gmail.com
penduj...@gmail.com
niel...@verizon.net
brother daniel
spearsg
As for Shroud of Turin -- this is very interesting -- what you said. And I'm going to begin my own scientific experimentation is this regard: practice gazing at an image of the shroud, and noting any psychic/spiritual/physical/emotion changes. As per my own words, I'm aware this effort might need more than 5 minutes, heh.
"Your body is your laboratory!" We've got this shot of life in the human form. Who knows when it will ever come again? Don't waste it.
Thanks and kind regards.
