What is "Traditional" Martial Arts?
John
know what a "Traditional" martial arts school is. From what I have noticed
from the post I have read it is slanted towards meaning that "Traditional"
martial arts school charge little money. If this is the main mind set than
where does that though or definition for "Traditional" come from?
Jake
I'm also interested.
-Jake
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"John" <jo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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It is true that very often Traditional Dojos charge very little. This is due
to the mind set of those in the art. To teach is to do so for the love of
the art primarily. Most often a sensei of a traditional art will have a day
job that pays his bills. The money for teaching is just that. It covers
actual costs & sometimes not even that. I happen to attend a traditional
Dojo. The fees are $50.00 per month period. gradings are $30.00 To Shodan Ho
is $60.00 and to Shodan in $100.00 Actually these are the new fees and don't
take effect til next month. Earlier this year I attended several seminars
led by a Judan ( tenth Dan ) and the current head of style. $75.00 per three
hour seminar was the cost. However, cost is not the only thing that
distinguishes a traditional Dojo.
..........................Tom.................................
John
arts were trained by full time masters of the art. They had there needs
attended to by their students. Their food, housing, clothing, etc. How can
you be training in a "Traditional" school or system when the master of the
school don't have the time to keep up his training and is not getting his
needs supplied by his students?
"story" <Enough no more porn spam> wrote in message
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Brian A. Wood
or fishers or had other "day" jobs. They may have taken students on as
apprentices, but I think the concept of masters who did nothing other than
pontificate on the arts might be a little more rare than you make it out to
be.
I don't like the definition of "traditional" as posted. I don't think it is
"traditional" because it doesn't charge much. I would say that the lower
costs stem from the philosophy that comes along with being "traditional."
The idea that if we couldn't pay the rent, we'd dump the room and meet in a
community center, or Sensei's basement or the park or whatever. We pay what
we must to keep the lights on and Sensei shares the art because 1) he loves
instructing, 2) through teaching others, one teaches onesself.
Just had to toss in here. Like I said, I'm a new poster, hope I didn't break
any a.m-a..k rules. <g>
_b
"John" <jo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"John" <jo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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> I would ask than how can that be "Traditional" martial arts? I the past
the
> arts were trained by full time masters of the art. They had there needs
> attended to by their students. Their food, housing, clothing, etc. How can
> you be training in a "Traditional" school or system when the master of the
> school don't have the time to keep up his training and is not getting his
> needs supplied by his students?
>
Simple It was very often a myth or the master was from a family that had
money & working just wasn't necessary. Also I assume you are speaking of a
real master like a Judan. In my style the Judan is just that. He is
supported by the style. He works very hard & his living comes from his
teaching. Where I attend as a normal thing. The master has a day job & his
students ( as high as Godan ) pay the fees I name.
BTW the mast I had in mind when I wrote the first line was Miyagi Chogun
............Tom.................
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"Brian A. Wood" <brian1...@nospam.cox.net> wrote in message
news:leP4b.32364$uh6.31581@lakeread05...
>
> I don't like the definition of "traditional" as posted. I don't think it
is
> "traditional" because it doesn't charge much.
No that isn't a full definition by any means. Traditional is much more than
that. Any traditional martial artist for example will have what is known as
a lineage. It will be rather short most often and will always trace back to
the head of style. What goes on in said dojo will be controlled in large
part ( curriculum etc. ) by said head of style & even the teaching method
will be laid down in most cases. Again even this isn't a complete coverage
by any stretch.
....................Tom.........................
John
> The fees are $50.00 per month period. gradings are $30.00 To Shodan Ho
>is $60.00 and to Shodan in $100.00 Actually these are the new fees and
don't
>take effect til next month. Earlier this year I attended several seminars
>led by a Judan ( tenth Dan ) and the current head of style. $75.00 per
three
>hour seminar was the cost.
>
>
Can I ask you how "Traditional" these fee's are?
I know that in the 60's martial arts cost about $15 a month in the US. The
price of martial arts in the 70's was about $25 per month give or take. The
martial arts cost about $35 or so in the early 80's and more around $45 near
the end of the 80's. The martial arts cost about $50 in the early 90's and
in the late 90's cost about $60. The norm seems that today $50 to $60 is a
fare price for it. I don't know how rent was in the 60's to today but I do
know back in the 60's you could buy a house for $5,000 that today for the
same new house would cost you about $100,000 in the area I live in. Now is
cost of land and buildings went up so much I would guess that rent did as
well. We have seen in the last 40+ years cost of martial arts about 400
percent increase but anything else like land and houses have gone up about
2000 percent. So with these givens it seems that those in the 60's where
over paying for training.
Jussi Häkkinen
> or fishers or had other "day" jobs.
Wrong. Most of the "old" time masters (1800's and pre-1800's) did belong to
a ruling class (i.e. nobles or officers) of Ryukyu Kingdom, at least when we
are talking about karate (as the newsgroup name implies). Idea about farmers
studying martial arts and fighting against the samurai is incorrect. And,
well, Okinawans did not put up much of a fight against Japanese samurai when
they conquered Okinawa in 1609. Romantic stories about farmers fighting
unarmed against the armed enemy are, well, romantic stories, nothing more.
So, yes, masters did have day jobs (court, officers, police), but that
doesn't make the art traditional or untraditional nowadays. I'd limit
"traditional karate" as being Okinawan karate (Okinawan born styles) and
"modern karate" as covering the Japanese styles that come straight from
Okinawan styles. I wouldn't call styles that are born outside Japan - or
even in Japan without straight connection to Okinawan styles and masters -
as karate at all.
Jussi
G. Michael Paine
"Jussi Häkkinen" <unin...@NOSPAMFORMEhotmail.com.INVALID> wrote:
> So, yes, masters did have day jobs (court, officers, police), but that
> doesn't make the art traditional or untraditional nowadays. I'd limit
> "traditional karate" as being Okinawan karate (Okinawan born styles) and
> "modern karate" as covering the Japanese styles that come straight from
> Okinawan styles. I wouldn't call styles that are born outside Japan - or
> even in Japan without straight connection to Okinawan styles and masters -
> as karate at all.
>
My two cents.
I could not agree more. Traditional is just that, from where Karate
orginated, Okinawa.
-M.P.
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"John" <jo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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>
> >
> Can I ask you how "Traditional" these fee's are?
>
Hard to say. I do know that the norm around here is about $80.00 or more so
they are quite reasonable in my book.
.........................Tom.........................